Melee stances explained simply | Warframe
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Melee stance mods change your moves, your combos, and much more besides. Learn what they do, how to understand the finer details, and what's the best for every weapon.
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Bonus fun fact - Dual Swords with no stance equipped have a pair of moves that look identical. The first move of both the neutral and forward combos appear to be the same, but the neutral combo does 50% more damage than the forward combo (much to the confusion of a viewer on Twitter just this week!)
10 people! excuse you it's 11
how are you not dying? like a hundred steel path enemies shooting and it just does next to nothing to you. what am i missing here?
Can i ask why you chose "iron phoenix" as best for swords? I already had it for my "broken war" because its the only mod that i have right now that fits, but there's a polarity penalty. Is there a reason for that? or does the capability outweigh the capacity cost and im better off just using forma for the combos the stance provides?
@@jimenez2403 This guide is not focused on reducing your forma costs, but simply the strongest of the stances. You can use a normal forma to change the stance slot polarity.
You know, if you never mentioned the conclave melee stances, I would have never known they existed. I'm sure the 10 conclave players are happy for some recognition!
I'm guessing you're the 11th!
@@CatOfCosmos w
@@CatOfCosmosw
@@CatOfCosmos W
@@CatOfCosmos W
There is 2 major things about stance that the wiki don't say (excepte by watching the gifs) :
-The mobility : when is there a dash ? can we walk during the combo ? and at what speed ?
-The area cover by each attack (the wiki only say it about a full spin, each part of the combo have a more or less large area.)
(and with this 2 point, for single dagger, the best one is by far Stinging Thorn, even if on paper, Pointed Wind has better DPS.)
Mobility for each weapon defers obv a dual sword will give faster in combo mobility than a hammer but every melee weapon will allow slides between each attack giving great mobility whereas some have movement options built in there combos which you unfortunately have to discover on your own as there are a lot of combinations
As for area covered it's shown as a stat in each weapon called reach, you can also use mods to increase range(reach)
@@Ihatelayn the reach defines the size of the area hit, and the stance combo define the shape.
some hit are only in front of us (in line), some other are an arc of X degree (sometime 45, sometime 120, sometime horizontal, sometime diagonally...), ...
#1 Warframe educational RUclipsr and streamer, nobody can change my mind
*Why would we tho?*
I will agree with your statement
His videos helped me get into warframe. Just started again 2 weeks ago and these guides have been the reason I'm still playing. The game is fun but it is a lot to take in as a noob
Blind justice > decisive judgement
Its good to mention that generally the block+neutral often includes lifting and forced smashes, and the block+forward is a kind of "catching up to an enemy" combo that moves You a significant distance forward across all melee types. DE, when reworking the system into the current one, mentioned that they want players to expect similiarly functioning moves using the same combinations across all the types, like the neutral combo for more focused targeting, moving combo for moving through crowds and such.
Because of the aim of keeping this guide simple I intentionally didn't cover the nuances of various moves. While DE did describe a general goal, I found too many exceptions/variations to those general designs which would overcomplicate this imo.
@@TheKengineer Blind Justice for the WIN!!, my fav stance =)
Gun blades with impact damage using the high noon stance can alternate the forward melee and standing melee (alternate holding melee key and forward+melee) to do a shoot and cancel combo loop which results in the gunblade firing fast when built for attack speed. With shattering impact, you can armor strip chonky targets so quickly using a vastilok. Sounds satisfying too.
High Noon is objectively better at this point.
@@eyywannn8601 noon has a diff neutral so it can't do it
@@AzizTheSavage Uh, what?
bullet dance can do it too by alternating neutral and neutral block, and is also really quick.
Bullet Dance is easier and has better flow for me tho to cut between neutral and forward combo and make it Bullet Spam
Hey, there is a small error in your video, some stances actually do change the slide attack - with Blind Justice, which you showed in the example, being one of them. You can see the slide attack damage in the arsenal changing when switching to this stance, and while the combo retains the same name, it is markedly different (much better in fact).
Blind Justice single target is really good damage but I dislike the slide attack, it doesn't feel nice
It is a lot stronger, hits many more times for more status effects, and causes lifted status, what's not to like? Also the dash attack is the best of all stances in the game for movement, and allows for some neat tricks like cancelling it with a full body cast to keep the momentum and travel large distances.
@@user-tf9gr8hn6i Still don't like, it's just preference
I'm a braindead player. Most of the time I just spam slide attacking across the map. It's way faster than normal movement and kills everything I touch. Blind Justice's range is lower, and the slide attack doesn't push you forward as much as the other one
Even acolytes I can either opt to spin around them, or attack head on depending on the situation
@@dirt8718 for acolytes I just play ring around the rosy with gauss and thermal sunder. Kills them without risking abilities being turned off by violence, and while a little slower is still a-ok
@@UltraGasLighterSupreme lol same
For gunblades I would recommend both stances depending on the target:
If u need a powerfull heavy attack combo, Bullet dance is better (for eidolons, or for regular sp).
If u need armor strip or u are using hybrid build with coil - then High noon (endurance runs, disruptions and so on).
I still despise the fact that they made tempo royale feel like shit for no good reason besides dislike for the community. It used to flow together to make a stance that felt good and viable to use for more that just a single combo. Anyways, thank you for the video, you make great stuff I can direct new players towards.
Same. And they repeated it again for butcher's revelry that stance just feels awful.
The top weapon classes that needs new stances or fixes are: Assault saw (so many people mis-classify ghoul saw as the weapon class which is also shown in this video) and Heavy Blade. They feel so gosh darn slow compared to everything else and don't have the extra punch to their damage to justify their clunky stances.
Arcane strike + primed fury fixes all slow melee problems
Keep up the great videos! They help loads with understanding the various aspects of warframe
When it comes to Heavy Blade I use Royal Tempo and when it comes to Sword I use Crimson Dervish.
In terms of dual swords all three stances are viable, but for different reasons:
- Swirling tiger has a very fast sequence of hits on standing/blocking combo which are good for procing statuses
- Carving mantis has an ungodly amount of forced slash everywhere
- Crossing snakes are basically a slower but more concentrated version of swirling tiger: higher modifiers, but less hits
also iron phoenix is the de facto worst stance for single swords by a longshot, not sure where you got the info it's good from
Iron phoenix is simple swings without dumb and uncomfortable to use moves unlike any other stance
It's not the worst if you rely on our primary. Good movement with forward block and you can run by doing the base combo, while others can slow down/lock movement. Sometimes practicality of the stance can place it above stances that are better stats wise but worse for practicality
I'd like to know why decisive judgment is the best, specially since I've had a lot of issues with it lifting and knocking down enemies (for some reason it sends them flying to the other side of the map).
Same, I really hope Ken answers this. I personally use Blind Justice because it just seems to do better overall with my Dragon Nikana I occasionally run. Tranquil Cleave is just meh, and decisive judgement doesn't perform as well as blind justice. Maybe it's my playstyle preference but it does seem that for the nikana's, even on paper with the stats he showed, it has longer combos (meaning longer ranges), it has higher damage multipliers, and it has 360 attacks, higher slash and impact damage procs, built-in slam attacks to the combo chains, and just overall appears to be better.
I don't understand why it's a silver mod and decisive judgement and tranquil cleave are gold mods. They are outperformed by Blind Judgement by every metric I personally have seen and experienced.
@@jazzyj7834 you also forgot the most important part it doesn't feel clunky to use
Curious, what made you pick Decisive Judgement instead of Blind Justice? I was under the impression that Blind Justice was the prefeered stance mod, but I haven't done the math myself
In practical tests Decisive Judgement ended up faster, despite the numbers. That comes down to the actual swings which aren't as easily measured as hit modifiers.
@@TheKengineer the wiki does actually have the hits per combo and combo duration too. One of the weird things that other games don't do is dual swords actually hit independently and therefore effectively double damage with the same base stats independent of stances.
I would also argue Swirling Tiger over Crossing Snakes simply because of the 5 insta hits in the first neutral combo. On a slash weapon with high status chance that's guaranteed 6 slash procs. Crossing Snakes is maybe more fluid considering moving attacks and has no knockdowns/lifting
Just 1 thing to note, blinding justice is better for Nikana’s since it attacks faster meaning more dps. Other than that great video as always 😀
Exactly. Not to mention its forward-block combo is IMO more fun and more mobile than the other nikana stances.
Dps doesn't matter, but move set does and blind justice is clunky as fuck
@@noriman4335 I guess it still boils down to preference at the end of the day regardless of numbers or dps. I've used both Blind Justice and Decisive Judgment many times with my nikanas, and I'd say I personally find blind justice's moveset to be smoother than the latter's while the others find the latter easier to use.
@@noriman4335 eh I find it much smoother than the other stance and it fits with all nikana polarities but each to their own
One thing to note with the stances is that the damage calculations on the wiki can sometimes convey entirely the wrong idea about how effective the weapon will be. Some moves hit only directly in front of you. Others cover a wide arc and are far better for running through a corridor.
By the numbers, you might not get the full story, so try stance mods that are off-meta and you might find that the movements of 'sub-optimal' stances are far more favorable to your particular goals. That said, definitely do not ignore the stats.
Good vid as always. Appreciated :)
I appreciate how your videos are informative without being drawn out
Using stances based on if you like the moveset > using stances based on dps
It really isn't Warframe unless it straight up doesn't tell you how significantly your stance is affecting your damage output outside of this swish swoosh looks cooler than that swish swoosh.
while I don't bother with them too much, stances are a great part of the game. the MIGHTY SEER can equip them too. This video is a must for new players imo
Hmmm that really depends. For example. If you have Dohkram builded as heavy blade with Exodia Hunt Arcane you will need Temp Royal becouse normal attacks count as Slam attacks which procs Exodia Hunt.
Tempo royale is trash and you can't change my mind.
But did you know theres a sliding heavy which is usually begins with the 2nd heavy in the combo with some exceptions? Also the roll direction is dependent on the melee direction which is most annoying when riding the ghoulsaw sideways.
What Warframe is that in the thumbnail? They look sick anyway
Equinox with the Antonym skin, using the Orokin colours.
@@TheKengineer ok thanks! Love your content btw
Shimmering Blight sometimes isn't the best polearm stance since you can attack fast enough that it causes the animation to not attack properly thus losing you dps. I think there are others but shimmering blight is the most notable culprit.
A bit surprised to see you didn't talk about how animations can break in certain stances since DE specifically mentioned that attacking too fast can cause some stances to not work properly and was why berserker fury was nerfed.
See patch note below for explanation from DE:
Update 30.5 (2021-07-06)
Melee Mod Nerfs
Attack Speed increases for Melee are part of what makes it so dominant. This is especially true when the conditions to reach animation-breaking Attack Speed are as simple as current Berserker: ‘on Critical Hit’. Infinite Attack-Speed Uptime is possible with a single Mod, and the result is animation noise with no distinction between hits, coupled with massive Damage output.
Thank you
I've noticed that so many content creators for this game say things like "DE doesn't explain this so here: do this" which is great and simple but leaves me confused about the why.
Ive ended up at a point where I can let my build carry me through most of the game but I don't understand fully why my gear works the way it does.
It so important to note now that if you highlight individual combos in your arsenal, it now shows you the same damage numbers and status effects that the wiki host.
Iron Phoenix? Really ?
I’ve never used combos in my life, I just spam attack 😂
Are you kidding me on that single sword stance pick!? All three of the other choices are better! Crimson Dervish, Vengeful Revenanent, and my personal fav Swooping Falcon!...
And heavy blade what now!? Cleaving Whirlwind all the way, with Tempo Royale just behind it!
...Am I in a nightmare! Kingineer isnt talking sense!
DE: "Hey, let's make some stances for melee so players can do cool combos. You know, like Mortal Kombat"
Tenno: **just smashes melee button**
Meanwhile: me throwing my wolf's hammer like an ape.
"Hammer goes woosh"
I don't understand why or how is this in my recommended. I haven't played this game in nearly two years. I don't care about Warframe in the slightest, I haven't searched up Warframe at all... Not to be rude, it's just odd.
-20 conclave credit, conclave is the most based form of warframe
Why did you pick the worst stance for both single swords and daggers?
I have bizarre keybinds but they let me to combo extremely easily
For the stances at 6:00 are the best ones the ones with the most free movement/forward momentum?
I just pick whatever stance feels the nicest to play with. :P
Any advice for players who do not have access to the wiki?
btw i found something silly you can do with heavy attacks -> Hold block then crouch then spam heavy like your life depends on it you can "skip" a few of the start up frames for heavy attack and its faster found this while testing awhile ago figured more people should know this!
and keep in mind i do not know if its a bug or not so do not flame me over it but it does help if you play with a heavy only melee build
So the heavy attack will always stay the same right?
not sure if UI bug but you had extract option before 5 mins ;O
6:13
was the nikana prime flex necessary
How good is the new heavy scythe?
You have 5,000 platnum omg
How Do I Get A Stance Mod
Something I only recently found out this week was the Heavy Attack combo does NOT consume your Combo Multiplier for each attack in the Combo.... in other Words if you do the full Heavy Attack Combo at Max Combo.... Both Attacks will gain the full Combo Bonus BEFORE the game Consumes the Combo. Game Changer !!! 👀
10 people playing conclave :D
How about something for new(er) players - such as: best non-prime a) melee weapon b) primary weap?
Thanks T/K, love the vids
10 ppl playing conclave xD
A few months ago I moved out of the "Place funny named mod into stance slot to get extra capacity" to "Let me actually read this combo thing and figure out why DE bothered to put it there". Wow did it change my relationship to melee and how I use it! I mean, you can still get away with bashing everything in your way in the face, but if you take the time to learn the combo system it's so much fun! The forced procs can be especially helpful, and if you really sit with the system and design a few loadouts you can bring a status effect you simply wouldn't have if you weren't keeping the combo system in mind. Speaking of loadouts, I recommend you start making and using some if you're a new player. It's something I ignored for a really long time and I suffered for it. Even if you have a loadout for each faction it'll save you a lot of time and headache having to go through your arsenal and change things manually. I've also started to separate loadouts by mod set type, so I have a Warframe, weapon, and companion with the Strain mod set for example. This way the Frame, companion, and weapons with the different complimentary sets are just a click away! It can take a little time, but you'll be glad you took the few minutes when you want, or need, to change your loadout.
Actually, not all stances have identical special moves. On the claws for example the four riders stance has an unique slide attack. And eh, I much prefer Swooping falcon on my swords
Absolutely mind boggling that apparently DE thinks people want to play a game this complex, but want absolutely none of this info visible in the interface.
My biggest problem with this game is how much it throws at you without explaining much, if anything to you
Thank you for going out of your way to actually research something that should just be stated in game, stuff like this is the only reason the game is playable in my eyes
I think this will help some people coming back to the video to check what stances to use, myself included: 6:06
I personally prefer reaping spiral neutral combo of stalking fan feels słów to me and it does not force bleeds.
i started plating again a few months ago after a 5 year break when crimson dervish was like 200 plat and its not the best stance for swords in your opinion?
I always learn from your videos
If anyone see this, follow them, it's worth it
totally off topic, but as a Revenant main, I freaking LOVE your Revenant fashion!
10k views... 9 likes wtf
How does a weapons attack speed factor into the stance combo animation length?
somewhat Pro-tip, combos can be mixed together mid execution, you don't need do the full combo, you can for example on tempo royale use just the forward+block attack to fling yourself forward then transition straight into hitting with the neutral E combo or pivot with a block+E super slam straight after.
Or for crushing ruin the first few swings of the neutral and forward+block combo don't cause slam attacks. which is good for a weapon like arca titron where you don't want to accidentally slam and burn your "Slam capacitor" buff which creates massive damage. So you do the first couple of hits of neutral, transition into a forward spin with forward+block back and forth or using the forward combo for a lift hit occasionally, so you can keep your slam capacitor for a heavy slam later.
so you don't have to specifically use the whole combo.
Thanks Kengineer! I commented to / asked you about this recently because honestly I just don’t know the differences for so many of the stances!!
It's cool how I just randomly found this scrolling through and I'm happy I did find it. I mean I knew about the combos and all but I never really had much interest about it either way but it could make things much easier too so it could be one thing to look into. Thanks man!
Heyo, I asked you to a video on melee stances during your Twitch stream last week-and here it is! Thanks man, your excellent content really makes me enjoy Warframe more.
Are there any instances where you wouldn't want to use a stance mod?
Amazing video
348. Person to watch this video
personally i never pay any attention to the numbers/forced procs of any stance. i only care about the feel and how good it looks visually ^^
Melee stances may seem just like, the way on how the melee works and more capacity but after seeing a video on the stance of votive unslaught, i saw that they had some sort of hidden bonuses but ultimately, you use a stance for you're preferred play style, I like to use tranquil cleave on my Nikana Prime
i just press e e e e e e
Hmm that older video you linked at the end, thinking about it, some of the stuff is outdated right?
Stropha and Glaive are some of the top damage dealers right 🤔
They're heavy attack weapons - normal attacks on them are, as shown, terrible.
5:50
Hey, I have a question, how does ZAW Contagion works? I made a weapon which I thought would've been a beast at it, but was worse than my other ZAW weapon even thought my maths pointed towards the other new weapon...
for contagion, only the grip and link matters. ur strike doesnt matter. unless ur going for a rivened build u should just pick ur favourite strike + either peye/seekala(depends on which weapon type u prefer)+ vargeet 2 ruhang. if u want a rivened setup id suggest u go for some high dispo strikes (u can refer the wiki for that). i personally use a kronsh+seekala+vargeet 2 ruhang cus the dispo of kronsh is highest among all zaw strikes. and seekala cus i prefer polearms.
@@chonkybutta925 and what things are you looking for on the riven?
Loved the video! I have a little question, why Iron Phoenix for swords? I almost never see it being used
In testing I had better results with it than any other stance. Simply that
fastest forward animation and you can walk freely without interference from the combo
Quality content as always! A few quick questions, how useful are the 3 physical damage mods Carnis Mandible, Jugulus Barbs, and Saxum Thorax vs their elemental alternatives Vicious Frost, Virulent Scourge, Volcanic Edge, and Voltaic Strike? Are their scenarios where it's worth giving up the elemental damage modifiers? Also, does the damage work the same as the elemental mods?
it's very complicated, but yes there are cases where you'd want to use physical mods over elemental ones, but you must damn be sure you know what you're doing:
1) elementals scale of total base damage
1.1) ips mods scale of their respective element - if you add a 110%slash mod on a wep with 10 slash and 100 puncture you'll only add 11 points of slash damage
2) status procs have more weight in the proc chance calculation according to how much there is of that damage type:
If you have like 400-500 viral and 100 slash, when you proc something - quite often it will be viral
2.1) slash mods can offset that somewhat, but a) it must be a weapon where you want to proc slash and b) it must have a good amount of slash already otherwise you run into 1.1)
2.2) there are melee builds on high slash weapons that do not use elementals and rely solely on 0-1 slash mods -- the logic there is to prime an enemy with a secondary wep and then melee them with a gazillion slash procs due to weeping wounds
@@Kirost-V Very helpful, thanks! I see, so this means the total overall damage is always less for the ips mod then (excluding modifiers), unless the ips mod is more than 100%, and even then the ips you're adding to has to be fairly highly weighted.
Great video, and now I’ve got some stuff to work towards, as always in warfare.
No I know you probably don’t take ideas from RUclips over patreon, but I was just wondering, are you planning to eventually cover the other modular items in the game? I know you’ve already done most, but one’s I’ve had trouble finding really any info or recommendations on are the predecites, vulpiphylas, and MOAS.
Most likely the reason there aren't many out there is because they are overshadowed by other companions (especially the smeeta kavat). In my testing I haven't found much use for MOAs or predasites, however the Panzer vulpaphyla is probably the best as it can auto revive itself (any vulpaphyla can).
The panzer specifically can heal you over time like a mini arcane grace with the mod Hunter Recovery. Combine that with its viral quills it can just passively heal you while spreading viral. Very useful. On top of that theres a mod that Son sells called Martyr simbiosis that also heals you when you drop below 10% HP. It's a very good survival companion.
I can send you the specific build if you want to try it
@@joshuam9205 not father, son
@@meragog3059 yes thank you
Thanks for this.
I needed this thanks
I'd strongly reccomend stinging thorn over pointed wind on the rakta dark dagger if you value its radiation damage. The stance doesn't put any additional slash damage to your attacks, allowing for radiation procs to be prioritized over slash procs. But wait, there's more: You don't miss out on any slash procs, the neutral combo actually forces three, of which two are at 200% damage! The stance is very suitable for CO
2:20 what skin/frame is that?
Equinox with Antonym skin
@@TheKengineer thanks mate, another great vid
I bought completed parts for necramech but it won’t let me assemble any reason as to why ?
Great video as always. It's a shame DE has made melee almost entirely irrelevant. So much variety lost
Melee’s are still extremely prevalent, it’s all up to play style for you to pick primaries, secondaries or melee. Soon to be operator as well, haha
@@Joemama-xw2wy Ok sure, but only getting kills with your sentinel is considered "a style of play" as well. The point is it's not even close to the same level as efficiency as primary guns
sheesh first
love the chanel bro!