I loove when people say "Oh no it's not a romantic relationship it's so much deeper than that." Like yeah, okay. STRANGE how I can't recall a single straight romantic relationship NOT being explicitly shown because "It's just SO much deeper than that."
Sounds especially ridiculous to me as an aromantic asexual who may never be able to completely get her needs for emotional intimacy met due to amanormativity, romance supremacy, and how those things make most people think that a certain level of devotion and intimacy is only appropriate for romantic partners, and not for people who love each other platonically. "It's so much deeper than that," coming from people who think that romantic-sexual relationships are the be-all, end-all of existence? Yeah, that's rich.
@Janey Aromantic don't mean you don't get to have deep emotional friendships. The op is worried they may not find this depth of love without romantic love.
Shiiii WE have been saying that since the golden age of Hollywood every time a cishet man and woman walk into a room and are instantly paired up. But the moment it’s an lgbtqa relationship suddenly it’s all “why does it have to be about romance or SEX (dirty! dirty!), friendships are important!!”
Literally they broked their time travel rules to make Steve x agent. Imagine Bucky and Steve living on a cabin in the woods to finally rest from all the battles, Steve would braids bucky's hair just for mocking and fall sleep on each other arms after a day of work.
hercules neira EXAAAACTLY, it’s like they weren’t even trying to hide the cover up at that point, you know it’s bad when you have to break the cannon established 30 minutes ago just to keep your characters undeniably hetero
@@reptilianviolinist if Bucky was a girl they would be together in the cabin, I wanted to see them together (even holding hands would be enough for me). At least now Disney gave us amity
Kenny Ortega, director of the highschool musical movies who himself is gay, confirmed that Ryan was meant to be openly gay, but decided to make him closeted gay (relying on context clues) because he didnt think it would fly for 2006 Disney. But wow how imagine how sad it would be to want to represent yourself in the movie YOU'RE directing and not being able to.
Not against it but RDJ was going up against Avatar and it seemed to man he was using it as a pr move. But if they kill Mary in 3 and have them be together so be it.
I can totally see Sherlock as gay but John Watson is like the straightest person in both the films and series. I absolutely don't ship them and I think it's VERY problematic how people even send death threats to both the director of the BBC Sherlock series and the actress of Mary Watson just because their weird fantasies about Johnlock. It's actually disgusting
@@barracuda0405 On that we agree, it's obvious that if Hannibal ever gets a 4th season or a movie that Fuller have been won over by the outpoor of Hannigram fans and it would be about them being together. In some way shape or form. Although if they go full on couple is hard to tell since while it's clear Will does have very complicated feelings towards Hannibal. He's straight while Hannibals seems to be above labels all together. What's somewhat ironic is that the same people wishing for certain male friendships to become romantic. Are the same people who complain how toxic male friendships are in media. Not understanding that male friendships can be complicated but that when men do form an intense loving bond that has nothing to do with romantic feelings. We will stop viewing them as friends and treat them as brothers. Often a brotherhood that depending on the situation can be closer than a real brother. Because you chosen each other rather than being forced by it just because of blood. We can still make fun off or challenge each other when one party has lost it's way. But when the chips are down you would take a bullet for them or their family if needed. I'm lucky enough to both have brothers and sisters through friendships I value above anything else. People who say men and women can't be friends have sadly missed out on one of the great joys in life. I know I've missed out on my fair share of basic human experiences in my life. But if my choices are die a virgin or not having female friends, I choose the former without hesitation. I can understand if you are gay and there are two friends who's friendship seems to go deeper than blood that like how people ship straight characters that they wish and ship gay characters. And that is totally fine, but when you go further than saying you disliked a direction, or perhaps really hated and was mad is acceptable. Where it becomes unacceptable is when any of the people making it gets serious threats thrown their way. Yes even non famous people will likely at somepoint experience getting threatened online by some disturbed but ultimately harmless keyboard warrior. That being said, it's not like crazy fans haven't taken it one step further so you have to treat threats as if an empty gun is aimed at you. Even if you know for certain that it's empty it's that kind of carelessness that get's people hurt at best or killed at worst.
Had Finn and Poe been made a couple in Star Wars it would have filled some holes for me. It was clear that Finn and Poe bonded somehow in the films, but they also barely knew each other. If they were both gay and attracted to each other, that would have provided better support for why these guys hit it off. I kept wondering, why are these guys suddenly buddies?
They fought side by side saving each others lives? Contrary to common beliefs, men are not all about sex. When Finn and Poe meet, they face a common challenge (escape from that First Order Star Destroyer) and cooperate to overcome it. They're both in crisis mode at the, and "oh me see hot person, me wanna boink" is about the last thing that enters a man's mind in situations like that. They hit it off because their lives literally depend their ability to cooperate without knowing each other. When men face huge challenges together, they put their egos aside and essentially become a part of something larger than themselves, and if they're lucky something that's larger than the sum of the parts. And while this starts out very task- and context oriented, it is a strong bonding experience in its own right that doesn't need to be supported by sexual or romantic attraction. In fact: romantic or sexual attraction go against the very nature of that bond, because attraction is in essence about realization of the self, while the bond created by overcoming challenges together is an experience of dissolution of the self and - provided the challenge overcome is large enough - the latter can create bonds that are deeper and stronger than sex or romance could ever be. Ascribing sexual and/or romantic attraction to characters that form this type of bond of sullies the beauty of it. I find it kind of annoying that whenever men bond in this fashion so many people jump to the conclusion that they must be secretly gay. A) It depicts men as though they're sex-maniacs and b) separates them from each other. Bonding with members of your own sex in non-romantic, non-sexual ways should not be considered so odd it require a "no homo" clarification. And for the record: That's not me saying "gay romance has no place in movies", just "I don't want depictions of this type of bond between men to disappear in favour of gay romance". Those types of bonds both have a right to be represented, just not in the same couple, because that's not how the male psyche works.
MrAranton While you make a really good point the actors themselves confirmed it and wanted it to happen but disney wouldn’t do it. As a society we need to talk more about having serious friendships though because I am a little sick of the inability to platonically love someone, so many people don’t realise that love isn’t just for relationships :(
Captain america went back in time to spend his life with Carter after dating her niece who wasn't born yet and who he kissed for the first time the day after Peggy's funeral. If he didn't erase Peggy's future family by doing this, he would have some very uncomfortable knowledge about Peggy's niece.
This wouldn’t happen, and it’s actually partially explained in both Endgame and the end of season 7 AOS. Basically, Cap could go back and have a life with Peggy creating a different timeline where they grew old together and may or may not have had children. And then could navigate the time stream to go back to the main timeline of the primary mcu to hand over the mantle of Captain America to Falcon, and peacefully pass away.
Lorenzo Gonzales wiping out a whole family in a different timeline is still wiping out a whole family. Who’s he to decide “eh, there are enough Sharons, she doesn’t need to exist in this one.” It’s fucked up.
and i can't fucking understand how he could be able to LIVE with the knowledge of Bucky being tortured by nazis for decades. Even if it created another timeline and he did save Bucky there, that Bucky is not HIS Bucky, it's not the Bucky he fought so hard for in his movies. he just leave his Bucky behind to go bang his past lover, a woman who already moved on from him, like...... ok steve, whatever.
I'd love to see a video on how fanfic is so *gay* but not actually all that *lesbian* when it comes down to what characters and ships and headcanons become popular.
Almost all the m/m fic I’ve read has been written by straight girls, and the good ones are usually written by lesbians or bi women. W/w fic I’ve read is almost always written by lesbians, and is SO much better, if scarce.
i cannot express how much i want this video i'm personally in the early planning phase of a series of essays on femmephobia in fandom, which arose cuz i'm a femme trans masc enby who's fucking tired of femme male characters essentially acting like they're women in a cis male costume. the void where wlw fic exists seems like it will have an entire essay to itself. (i've fought hard for my femininity, as someone who's always loved stereotypically girly pursuits but never felt comfortable with them until i transitioned. the way femme men are written literally induces dysphoria.) anyway. i'm extremely done with (usually white) cishets fandom tbh. (tho, tbh sometimes it's not just cishet ladies - bi cis women who're married to, or in a ltr with, cis men and who haven't sorted out their internalised homophobia/heteronormativity can be the worst offenders. me and some gender diverse and overtly sapphic friends were recently bullied out of the stucky fandom cuz we started talking about its femmephobia (one of us had a breakdown cuz of it) and the perpetrators were cis bi and straight women in cisheteronormative relationships.) (to be 100000% clear - i myself am bisexual, i don't deny their queerness at all! i just think they've got cisheteronormative blinders on that they refuse to acknowledge and that's fucking up how they engage with fandom. it's a problem that's supremely fucked so many fandoms.) anyway i digress lol. yes i agree, i'm here for it
It’s because the cultural associations of friendship between two men and two women are very different. Look at something like the Bechdel test, where two named women in film almost never talk to each other about something other than a man. Bechdel originally used this test to argue that this was because hollywood is terrified of lesbian relationships, and she’s fully right. Also, when cis/het people see a pair like Finn and Poe, they don’t fit their expectation of what gay men look/act like, so they don’t even think of the possibility of them being gay. On the other hand, most cis/het folks’ experience with lesbianis is for the pleasure of straight men, which is not only gross and bad, but it also makes the possibility that two female characters played by conventionally attractive Hollywood actors might end up making out all the more likely in their minds. So they end up not showing any close friendships between two women on film. Also, fandom is mostly congregated around sci-fi/fantasy works, which are notoriously sexist, and bad at having any women characters. The original Star Wars trilogy has literally one female character, lord of the rings has 2 female characters that never interact, the original series of Star Trek only has 2 female characters, Supernatural, Doctor who, and Sherlock, arguably the three pillars of modern fandom, all don’t have two women who regularly interact, so yeah. Basically, movies and tv shows hate women, and hate lesbians even more
Aside from the Stucky thing being a very likely scenario I also feel that Steve Rogers, as a character, would find out how she (Peggy?) lived her life in his absence, see that there were kids who've now probably got their own families, and not make the selfish choice to go back and undo all of that progress and these people's lives. Doesn't sound like the type of decision he would make.
Oh it gets even worse. Assuming of course that any degree of logic is applied and the multiple timeline theory is in fact what is happening with the time travel here, the fact that old Steve is sitting on the bench not coming back through the portal means 1 of 3 things must be true. Option A. All the time travel broke the space time continuum in addition to its own time travel rules and booted Steve back to his original timeline somehow meaning we have no real idea what the alternate timeline looked like except that it had 2 distinct steves one of which had to either remain in the ice an additional 70 years for no real reason or wake up to find Peggy with his alternate timeline self. What Steve did or did not change is unknown but ultimately his remaining there for so long caused significant damage to the multiverse which is very bad. This is somehow the least amount character assassination for Steve. Option B. We have either been following the second timeline this whole time or we shift to it after Steve goes through the portal but either way there is essentially an infinite spiral of identical timelines which create time travel to save themselves creating a new timeline that then must do the same to save itself where Steve chooses to escape. Now this causes most of the same problems as option c in that the timelines must be very close to identical so see problems with Steve maintaining the timeline below. Option C. Steve fixed all the damage caused by their time travel in the other timelines and then didn't change anything else after going back to Peggy allowing the timelines to merge since they were virtually identical. This has very bad implications. Steve fixing all the end game shenanigans back to how they were before means that Steve somehow managed to successfully re-liquify the reality stone, reinject it into Jane, recapture loki, put the soul stone back into whatever pocket dimension it was in and reactivate its whole weird protection thing, somehow resurrect clone or otherwise replace gamora nebula Thanos and his army, and erase the memories of all those hydra agents who now think Steve is hydra, any hydra agents those guys have contacted, Loki, Jane, his past self, red skull, and who knows how many other people who experienced something that absolutely would have changed the future. So already there are problems in that to maintain the timelines Steve knowingly brought Thanos back to continue enacting genocide and one day perform the snap. Plus also put the reality stone back right before it would lead to a small invasion in London but that's kinda small fries at this point. Already this is virtually impossible and requires a truly astounding degree of callous and selfish decisions on Steve's part but it somehow gets worse once you consider all the decisions Steve would have had to make after going back to be with Peggy. Firstly he would have to decide if he was gonna be honest with Peggy and somehow convince her to go along with all the following horrible decisions or lie to her as well to maintain the timeline. First are basics like coming up with a false identity to hide so that no one knew who he was. I cannot overstate how extremely unlikely that is to work given Peggy was in regular contact with people like Howard and the other commandos who would recognize him but could never know he was alive else they would definitely not act like they had in the original timeline. Given his knowledge of the roots of hydra and how they formed he now had the ability to stop them but he would have to consciously make the decision not to do so and thus allow every single thing they did for the next 70 years and the same goes for all the non-hydra bullshit that would occur. He would have had to let Zola be downloaded. Let hydra reform within shield. Let bucky remain in enemy hands being brainwashed and tortured. Let Howard abuse/ neglect Tony. Let Howard die. Let Tony be blown up and kidnapped. Let the red room continue until Natasha finally burned it down and thus enable the torture of dozens of girls. Let Bruce turn on the machine that would create the hulk. Let Ross drive Bruce into hiding for years. I am honestly unsure of Clints mcu backstory but there probably something tragic there. I'll leave Thor alone cuz different realm and all but I would note that Steve saw Thor call on Heimdall at least once so he could of theoretically tried to help that mess. Let Wanda and Pietro grow up as orphans. Let Coulson die. Let the battle of new York be super bad. Let the scepter fall into hydras hands. Let all iron man 2 and 3 happen. Let Thor 2 happen. Let age of ultron happen which is essentially also letting the sokovia accords happen. Let the bombing of the UN happen. I'll leave black panther alone cuz I honestly don't know how much if any of that Steve could have known about. Same for Ant-Man and Spider-man. Let the whole Thanos thing happen again and thus knowingly allow half of the entire universe to be incredibly traumatized for 5 years and the other half to basically miss 5 years of their lives. Not to go into all the other problems with the snap in the first place. Also in case it was lost in that mess. STEVE knowingly let BUCKY be TORTURED for 70 YEARS, when he could have stopped it just so he could have his happily ever after without messing with the timeline. They could have avoided all this by having Steve come back through the portal as an old man and thus having lived in a separate timeline where he could have made all kinds of changes but having him already sitting there means that (unless option A is true which we are given no indication of) in the main timeline Steve has already been there this whole time in the background and it changed nothing. Steve changed nothing. Steve chose to let all the tragedies happen and did nothing. That is the worst possible ending for his character arc and I'm pretty sure most of it is just because the film didn't bother to keep track of its time travel rules or think through the implications.
@@kyab2815 Okay wow I hate it even more now! Thanks for the really thoughtful comment, I didn't even realise the myriad of other issues with his not returning through the portal.
@@kyab2815 Sounds like the writers just don't bother thinking too much about all the details of everyone's stories and what consequences could arise from their next move. I didn't know about 80% of all that, but even the 20% I did know would be enough reason for Steve not to do it, had he thought about it for a moment. Which I think he would have done had he not been bound by the writers' script.
@@kyab2815 YES. I think that, like with magic systems or futuristic sci-fi, a story/ universe has to have one set of time travel rules that the writers stick with. This not only prevents weird crap like what Marvel pulled, but the limitations can also make the writers come up with more creative solutions to their problems. Also, I agree, Steve's ending was one of the least satisfying of the whole bunch and very out of character.
*Leia and Han reuniting* Leia: Same jacket? Han: Different jacket. *Finn and Poe reuniting* Poe: That’s my jacket? Finn *starts to take it off*: Oh... Poe *bites lip*: No, no, no. Keep it. It suits you. Either we’re to believe that everyone in the Star Wars universe is suddenly obsessed with jackets, or the writing is not-subtly creating a parallel between the two couples.
1. No lip bite(you might be a weirdo) 2. Likely homage to the scene that you're looking way to deep into 3. Confirmed not gay 4. Finn literally told Rey he wanted to runaway with her prior to that scene but you ignored it because...
Kenny Ortega recently confirmed that Ryan in HSM was gay, just closeted during the movies because Disney. He said that they(him and other crew probably not exactly Disney execs) agreed that Ryan would come out in College (which means he might be out in Sharpay's movie, he appears in the end and gets stuck in a literal closet)
Steve's ending in End Game was insulting to so many characters. Sharon was just desperate to make out with her mother figure's husband who she'd have known and experienced as a parental figure! Steve suddenly is obsessed with Peggy after he'd already gotten over her in the other films. It was so clearly a push to avoid the whole shipping thing. Because if they just wanted HEA for Steve, they'd have brought Sharon back in. But they knew the relationship with Sharon wasn't built up or accepted well. And so they ruined both Steve and Peggy's character growth in order to make it clear they didn't want people shipping Steve and Bucky.
It also implies that Steve doesn't care for Bucky nearly as much as he did because this once hell-bent-on-saving-Bucky man suddenly went back in time knowing full well that his friend was ALIVE and being tortured and DIDN'T GO TO SAVE HIM it just ugh- not even the defense that he didn't want to disrupt the timeline would work because that man was ready to start a WAR over saving Bucky, no way am I buying he wouldn't start a new timeline over him if Marvel wasn't so determined to no homo the relationship. Fix-it fics are the only thing that soothe my soul when thinking about this.
When you look at Bucky's face at the end of endgame, you can tell he isn't happy with Steve's decision to go back. Sebastian Stan said: why would people think Bucky wasn't happy? Because Bucky looked like he was on either the verge of tears or killing someone. And Steve literally risked everything for Bucky. He risked his reputation, his freedom and his life. And Sam and Nat and all them could tell how important Bucky was to him. They literally risked everything basically to keep Bucky and Steve together and Steve threw it in the bin. Like- Steve- everyone except Stony and Sambucky shippers ship it- including Natasha I could easily believe- so...
this. it literally made no sense that steve finally got bucky back, the man he promised to be with "to the end of the line" aka until death do they part, and then immediately was like lol i'm just gonna leave him and go back in time and stay there and pretty much never see him again. the writers were so blatantly homophobic with this one it made me sick. they ruined one of my favorite characters in marvel.
When you get back from having your stomach pumped at the ER....well watch either Sand or that one film about the Btitish lord in Victorian times that ran off with his ganekeeper, your choice...hey I hear Portrait of a Woman on Fire is most excellent....
I genuinely have thought Janice was a lesbian through and through since Mean Girls came out. Like, I've seen that movie so many times and still don't remember her ending up with a guy or ever denying she was gay. Wow, my brain must've been doing some heavy editing all these years - even before I realized I was bisexual lmao
You and many other people probably, just like myself, don't really remember it happening because they end up together literally in the last second of the movie LOL which like, if you're gonna wait that long for something romantic to develop between two characters, you might as well just not make anything happen, specially when there has been no signs, NONE whatsoever of there being anything romantic between the two of them...It might actually have been better for janis to not end up with anyone and to leave the audience with the idea of the possibility that she may or may not be gay because, even if it's not explicit, we can still be hopeful in believing she was... but by making her be with the male friend at the very end, they completely erase the possibility for the audience to imagine it for themselves. Great, hilarious movie over all but they missed that opportunity big time
Rewatched the movie a few months back for the first time in years, and honestly, Janis being straight is almost acceptable when you consider that Regina is extremely repressed and clearly projecting her own feelings onto the best friend she secretly had a crush on. Rather than confront her feelings, she did what scared, dumb kids tend to do and lashed out at the people around her, fabricating an elaborate, perfectly and totally heterosexual high school life for herself to bury her feelings as deep as she possibly could. I mean, for fuck's sake, Regina's reaction to no longer being queen bee is to join a goddamn ALL-GIRL LACROSSE TEAM. Long story short Regina and Janis should've been the ones dancing together at the end. They wouldn't have needed to end up together, it's a movie aimed at teen girls, but god damn Tina Fey you can't throw all this at us and pretend Damian's the only queer in town.
As someone heavily involved in the Night at the Museum fandom during it's prime, I AM SHOOK. Al Capone and Napoleon Bonaparte weren't even the strangest part. The second most popular ship is a middle-aged night guard and a 2000 year-old old twink mummy.
I saw it as the relationship brothers in combat, that legolas took the dwarf to elf heaven was the pure christian converting the jew to Christianity. Lord of the right is very xenophobic and anti semetic with very militaristic values. So if you know the background of Tolkien so do lord of the ring become very gringy religious, racist and imperialistic.
I just thought about something. Ppl that get upset because they want more portrayals of health friendships literally don’t care that a popular trope in romance is the one where the guy best friend is in love with his girl best friend. Not a single person starts asking why they can’t just be friends then. They only want characters to just be friends when the relationship is gay.
Yup, exactly. In movies/tv if a man and woman are friends everyone always ships them and wants them to end up in a romantic relationship together, and no one ever complains about it or says stuff like “why can’t men and women just be friends? Why are you forcing them to be something they’re not?”. But every single time two women, or two men, have an incredibly close bond that goes well beyond how most friendships are depicted in film, (and that has real genuine potential for a romantic relationship to develop) people complain “why aren’t men allowed to have close friendships? They are just friends” and act like people wanting them to be together is inherently bad and somehow diminishes the entire concept of male friendship. There’s ton of comments saying those exact complaints of “why can’t men just be friends” even in this comment section. It’s a total double standard.
i think homoeroticism is what happens when men dont know how to write women beyond "they fight with men and then have sex with us" all the deep emotional relationships are between men
Dem That sure is a problem, but there is this sort of an underlying strength to the shipping of stucky, + outside of the way Cap’s journey concludes in Endgame, there’s no definitive answer to Cap with Peggy, the only moment Cap has a sexual moment in The First Avenger is when he’s forced in to kissing some woman. The Cap and Peggy relationship is none-existent for Steve Rogers in all the films, it’s up to the viewer to assume he cares for her as it is only Peggy who really shows interest, with the exception of how Endgame ends and that did feel like more of a damage control/preventive measure. What I’m saying is: I think you’re right in the that take, but there’s enough, at least for me, to suggest that the emotional weight of the stucky relationship is strong, not because that was the only relationship the writers could give weight too, but because they knowingly gave weight to it. Idk 🤷🏽♂️
@@MrDangerdood oh dont get me wrong, im not denying theres more chemistry and a deeper emotional bond between steve and bucky vs steve and peggy! just giving an explanation for why its so prevalent lol
@@everfluctuating I agree. I appreciated the Steve/Bucky relationship being heterosexual as an example of non-toxic masculinity, but literally no one anywhere in the Marvel Cinematic Universe has a deep friendship with a woman. Not even women. Steve and Natasha is the only thing that borders on it. Some history is hinted at with Hawkeye, but the friendship is not SHOWN. Valkyrie/Hulk is probably closest...but Hulk is in a childlike state...
Probably because men aren't expected to show strong emotions towards each other even if it's out of friendship and when they do it's perceived as being gay instead of the characters being close friends
He's pulling a Roddenbery (the guy from star trek = who's feature in the list with Kirk and Spock) bc when asked about K/S Roddenbery said exactly this... and guess what other franchise JJ Abrams put his dirt hands on and made very heterosexual? Yes, star trek. It's all a full circle of denied gay romantic relationships.
Actually, they did interact a few times in the last movie, and lemme tell you, from my perspective those two were already in the married vibe, with the kind of bickering they had going on
Steve Rogers is a Bisexual Icon for me. Like he did definitely love Peggy Carter, and I believe he loves Bucky too, but yeah, the fact they jumped through hoops to end it with the straight relationship tho is pretty wack :/, when they could have just had them together without doing weird time travel bullshit 😂
They should have just made Captain Marvel explicitly gay. Hoards of people were already pissed off because she's woman, so they wouldn't have even lost that much praise 😂
@@TheAssassinlord123 almost everything she and the movie does that has been widely criticised has been done by several other male marvel actors and marvel movies with male leads, those actors and movies were not attacked to anywhere near the extent that brie larson and captain marvel were. Even if all the criticisms were valid (plenty of which are not) the extent to which this movie has been targeted is ridiculous if you claim there is no ulterior motive.
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 that was only because, people who didn't like the criticism, made a big deal about it, and accused them of sexism, without even trying to understand why. "You don't like Brie Larson? Oh that must be because you are sexist! You're nothing but a sexist piece of shit!" So of course people got upset, because they don't like being accused of doing something bad, especially of something they didn't do. So they fought back. And when they saw the movie and didn't like it, again they were accused of sexism, because it possibly couldn't be because the movie was bad, right? It had to be sexism! Again people got upset, because they don't like being accused. So no. The reason for the Brie Larson drama wasn't because of sexism, it's because people thought she was unfit as Captain Marvel. But because of people like Snehil Shrey who, to borrow their words, was shrieking about sexism, when it had nothing to do with it, it turned into a big deal. People didn't have any problem with Wonder Woman. That's a movie with a female protagonist, but nobody had a problem with it. You know why? Because the movie looked good, and the actor looked like a perfect fit for Wonder Woman. That's it. That's all that was about. But god-forbid that a movie starring a woman, would be criticized in any way, because that's a big no-no. But I agree that people took it a bit far. It turned into a much bigger deal than it was.
Okay, I saw deamus and thought of sanders sides, but Seamus and dean were OBVIOUSLY gay! Like, if you can put the other literal children in relationships, you can have them too. Honestly, any romance in that series was unnecessary
haha i remember watching it for the first time and like...i LIKED it, but was so disappointed that they DIDN'T end up together. They could literally keep the whole "from a different world" plotline bc both Knightly and the coach are white brits like...
I cant find the link but in an interview the creator said it was originally intended to be gay and the producers told her she couldnt write a character who was both gay AND desi so she had to pick one
literally the only thing i can remember about that movie is that i thought they were gonna be gay and then they weren't and i was apparently so disappointed that i erased the movie from my memory...
The Director of High School Musical said it's gay on purpose Disney is just homophobic. Also, Ryan and Kelsey weren't together, that was meant to be mlm/wlw solidarity.
Julie and the Phantoms is the first kid-oriented content he produced that actually has gay characters and I’m so happy that he’s able to finally do that.
Btw, you mentioned how Oscar Isaac said he was willing to make Poe and Finn romantically involved and how refreshing that was - Chris Evans said he literally played Cap as a bisexual character.
I would also add Elsa from Frozen to this list! Her character could conceivably have been asexual based on the first movie (which ALSO would have been amazing), but the second film introduced Honeymaren...and I’m sorry, you can’t tell me those two weren’t gay! Come on! They were staring longingly into each other’s eyes while sharing stories over a romantic campfire!
And the movie literally starts with Elsa's call to action, Into The Unknown, being about finding a place where she finally feels she belongs! Where does that place end up being? With Honeymaren. Elsa literally would have had a much more powerful arc if they had made their relationship canon.
I actually would also have liked to see Jess from Bend it Like Beckham as asexual. In an extremely maternal, family-oriented culture that would have taken some adjusting for her parents. She could have stumbled through some confusion with Jules and Joe before figuring it out.
@Hopeless Romantic uhmm.. because we like to joke about straight ppl cuz yall were never opressed. when you're homophobic you're actively oppressing us and stopping us from getting equal rights. heterophobia is a joke among lgbtq+ because you will never have to experience any kind of real life discrimination for being straight, while I could get killed for wanting to use different pronouns, another name, or being attracted to the same gender, or multiple genders. no one deserves homophobia because of how mentally damaging it is. Imagine getting shut out by everyone because you liked the opposite gender. imagine how horrible you would feel. so many lgbtq+ have felt that pain that you right now are imagining. Heterophobia is a joke , and homophobia is real life opression. Hopefully this opened your eyes. edit: mistakes and wording
But it's so fucking stupid. She's only been in his life for a few weeks at most and I just don't understand how Steve could have been so smitten about her to abandon basically the man he was raised with.
@@yunamchill9169 People fall in love for less and leave their lifelong friends and family. And Steve knew Bucky would be fine. My gripe is with the timetravel rules. Since they establish that you enter a parallel universe instead of your own universe's past, that means that Steve lived out the rest of his days in the other universe, so the old Steve we see is some other version.
that part about being outed before you're even out yourself really struck me. I was labeled gay immediately and it took me up until last year to come to terms with my bisexuality since such a part of it was just deemed non-existant.
I don’t think you fully understand, he became a nazi in the recent Secret Empire comics, not in the MCU. For one, the MCU is not at all the same universe as the comics and two, the character of Steve Rogers has such a long history of being very straight, you wouldn’t just up and make superman gay, because he’s not, it’s the same with Captain America. You can’t compare two wildly different characters and two different events that happened in completely different universes. I would have been absolutely fine with Cap being gay in the MCU but him being hydra in the comics is completely irrelevant to his on screen counterpart.
@@RM-cn8pw Considering the lengths Disney has gone to appeal to Chinese censors this is a legitimate concern. Wish it wasn't but hey that's the crapshack world.
@@RM-cn8pw Admittedly, your first comment is a little confusing, "They've barley done this even once", are you referring to Vivi's comment on Disney sinking every gay ship? And what exactly is Vivi wrong about? I'm just trying to understand here
When Frodo says he has to travel to Mordor alone and Sam says “I know, and I’m coming with you!” Not to mention wading into water after the boat while he can’t swim, almost drowning in the process. “It’s me.... it’s your Sam!”
@@SSD_Penumbra Dude, that’s like phoenix Wright becoming a fucking lawyer for edgeworth. It’s super gay; the director even gave the actors instructions to make it gay. Stop commenting your bullshit on every comment in this comment section and suck it. If you don’t like gay people, then don’t watch this video.
@@astrocake584 It took you 8 months to write that? Damn dude. Also, two guys who basically grew up together and are basically brothers and YOU think they are gay? I think you've got issues, my guy. Also "If YoU DoNt lIkE tHe GaYs" would work, except I'm bi and think it's retarded how people just assume two people who basically spend every waking moment together BECAUSE THEY'RE BASICALLY BROTHERS are gay. It's sad. If you want them to be gay to satisfy some deep seated issues, then you do you, but as for the actual source material and TOLKIEN HIMSELF, they're friends since birth. Deal with it.
@@SSD_Penumbra I didn’t look at the how long ago it was when I commented; I could hardly give a shit. No one is saying that two men can’t be friends or have a brother like relationship. But when you start saying my Sam. It’s pretty gay. Also I’ve known people who’ve been friends since birth and started dating later in life. Hell, I have childhood best friends; some are like siblings to me, some I’ve crushed on and even dated. It happens; childhood best friends to lovers is a trope for a reason. Also also no one seems to give a shit when it’s a man and a woman. Like blood and bone. The two grew up together practically like siblings, lived in the same orphanage and everything. Ended up crushing on each other. Also also also of course Tolkien wouldn’t say their gay. You do realize when the books were ducking written, right? But I mean, the way he writes them is still pretty gay. I was never like that with my sibling or “siblings.”
Then why deflect? You're forcing a sexuality on two characters that aren't gay. It's sad. Also, let's talk about "when it was written", during that era, it was very common for two men to be affectionate with each other. It doesn't mean they're gay. For example, there are numerous pictures of the era with men holding hands and bathing together. Men just did that shit together as did their wives. You talk as if it was uncommon for gay people to exist back then, but you're forgetting writers like Oscar Wilde who literally wrote a book about it.
Okay this is PERFECT but.... im just saying......... Road to El Dorado anyone? (You cant talk about Singing in The Rain as a poly relationship between two guy best friends / established boyfriends and a girl who gradually gets really! damn!! close!!! to both of them and NOT mention Road to El Dorado, c'mon skdjsjsj)
All of this makes me even more proud of the Percy Jackson book series. Rick Riordan nestled himself into Disney and then just wrote his next books in that universe, all including lgbt+ characters.
@Suchana Chatterjee I know but his sexuality is not mentioned in the original series so I hope they're not going to ignore it with the excuse it's not canon in the books they're adapting
Suchana Chatterjee I stopped reading after the last Heroes of Olympus book (there was a publication gap but by then I’d aged out of them tbf.) Do we see their relationship grow and continue on-page in a sequel series?
Okay but the fact that Ocean's 8 wasn't canonically gay is downright insulting, I mean apart from everything you've already said they really had CATE BLANCHETT dressed LIKE THAT???? Like yes sure clothing and gender presentation is not always an indicator of sexual orientation etc etc but sometimes it is. And you're not just gonna be THAT gay and dress THAT gay and not actually, you know, be gay.
That damn pan around that is VERY reminiscent of ones traditionally done in het kissing scenes during Bilbo and Thorin’s hug scene will always be absolutely hilarious to me like it’s so gay
They literally shoehorned tauriel and killi in reshoots. Evangeline Lilly only agreed to be in the movie if there WASNT going to be a love triangle and the exhaustion on her face in interviews is palpable. It really felt like a distraction from bilbo and Thorin. “Quick look at the heteros”
I feel like straight creators talking about a friendship being "better" or even "revolutionary" than a romantic couple when we call for representation don't realise that that's only true when the two people you're talking about are a man and a woman. It's so weird how we're sexualised and desexualised at the same time. Thank you for the great video, looking forward to the Black Sails one!
It's so bizarre. They say things like that, but the moment aros want deep friendships and lifelong (queer)platonic relationships, it's "bad", "childish", "not real partnership", and "not true happiness because only romance can achieve it". Queerphobes, all of them.
@John Jaxson which is an issue with how ppl write male friendships. I don’t think it’s difficult to write male friendships that don’t come off as romantic. Just don’t have them do romantic coded things. I’m convinced that all the ppl trying to write close male friendships have never actually seen one. They don’t look romantic at all.
This was a tv pair, not movie characters, but I was so baffled that they never made Rizzoli and Isles a couple. They were adorable, compatible, and genuinely loved each other.
Seriously though. When I was a kid I legit just believed for a fact that Magneto and Professor X were ex boyfriends. Like I honestly think I remember my mum telling me that when i asked about it. And I was so young i didn't even really know about gay people yet. But I just thought that they were.
Honestly even watching the movies as an adult for the first time i was like..... so they're obviously like ex boyfriends right? Like that's the dynamic here????
It's how actors wanted the story to go (I remember Ian Mckellen being particularly vocal abt it) so I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally played the characters that way. Like Lucas Grabeel and Ryan Evans in High School Musical.
Wait they aren’t? I haven’t really watched most of the X-men movies, but from the few I’ve seen they have a strong gay vibe. I thought they were like dumbledore and grindelwald or something
Yes because during that time period close make friendship was normalised, men would share beds etc. Just because men are close it doesn't mean they're secretly gay
@@thevioletskull8158 men used to hold hands, kiss foreheads, sleep in the same bed etc in that era, the idea of masculinity we view as normal now is an invention of 50s America. Tolkien is a product of an older culture and of a different era. Given that he also stated that the lord of the rings is a fundamentally Christian narrative...it's really not that hard to realise they aren't gay.
Steve Rogers should've been bi, just sayin'. And I really see Professor X/Magneto as more compeling as friendship, but let's be real, everyone sees the chemistry there. Their old versions seem like bitter ex-boyfriends.
I always thought about them as a couple who still had feelings but could not be together because of the society and choices they made ,for example Ashitaka and San from -Princess Mononoke-
Also, with the Sam and Frodo thing: Sam marrying that woman at the end, that could easily be that Sam is bisexual and poly, and Frodo encourages him to be with this other person he loves as well, and they all 3 hang out during their Hobbit activities and are generally a wholesome polycule.
Remus/Sirius might be more literature than film, but this pairing definitely belongs in the fourth category. Remus' experience as a werewolf is (canonically I'm pretty sure) a reference to the treatment of HIV+ people in the 80s. So having that reference and not having him be q*eer falls into the "displaying racism/colonialism but only with white actors" way of thinking. Also, Sirius' character arc pretty much centers around him leaving his family because of their discriminatory views, so his character arc could have been made even more high stakes had he also been q*eer. It would have given him even more reason to leave his family and find a new one. Plus, the lost love aspect of Remus and Sirius reuniting after Sirius had been in Azkaban for 12 years would have made Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix so much better
PERIOD! For me, I already count Wolfstar as canon. Makes too much sense and even David Thewlis (the actor that played Remus) though that Remus was gay and that Sirius was at LEAST a former partner. But NOOOOO. Now that people are asking too many questions about them, let's give Remus a heterosexual love interest coming from nowhere and expect the fandom to forget. Let's forget about an incredible healthy and lovely gay relationship, and let's give people a toxic heterosexual couple (Remadora is hella toxic with Remus leaving Tonks when he finds out she is pregnant). It's canon and Harry is just an oblivious git that didn't notice that they were romantically and sexually involved. It wasn't there because Harry didn't know it was a thing, not because it wasn't real. God, I hate JK Rowling so much...
And the relationship between Remus and Tonks was just... no. They were both good characters but putting them in a relationship together was a complete waste of potential of what they could have been. Their relationship was kind of boring and uninteresting, not to mention the reason they broke up was kinda toxic and they had no real chemistry in the first place. It just felt like they wanted to do something with the characters but they just ended up throwing away all the potential they had by not making Sirius and Remus a thing which would have been a way better storyline. Also I feel like Tonks should have been a lesbian. Honestly she was a good character and they kind of did nothing with her, it would be nice if she had gotten a bit more of her own storyline, even if she wasn’t gay but let’s be real she should’ve been.
"that awful cringe-worthy cameo in endgame" aksjsjsjs i screamed yes i HATE that cameo i always cringe i have to skip that part because i get so mad thank you for the validation
OMG they were co-generals. That's how I feel about Poe and Finn. I also love the thought that try to make so many shows/movies gay is because there are so many more well written male characters to make a couple with.
I'm still surprised that given the superhero craze of the past decade, no one has made a movie about a gay superhero. I mean fox had the rights to the x-men for years, and given that they were losing the market to disney you'd think they could've swung for the fences and make like, a lower budget film about any of the lgbtq characters of that franchise. They would have gotten a lot of free publicity and critical buzz about it.
the more I think about this the more it baffles me. Of the fox xmen films, Deadpool was the most commercially successful and Logan was the best received by critics-and both these films had budgets under $100million. IMO part of the success of these films is because they weren't the mcu- they were new and more daring! And given how disney makes such a big freaking deal about the tiniest smidge of gayness in it's films (beauty and the beast remake, endgame, star wars), one would think fox would have jumped on the opportunity to upstage the mouse by having an on -screen central lgbt character. Hell, some of the first and most prominent queer superheroes in all of marvel are in the xmen comics, it's not like they had nothing to work with.
i think bbc’s merlin, though being a tv show and not a movie, definitely fits into category four. magic is something people are born with and can’t change, the main villain’s goal for the first three seasons is to completely irradiate magic in his kingdom, which pushes his daughter away (who was also born with magic) so much that she becomes the new villain. and the writers including lines said by people born with magic like “until [magic is widely accepted], we go unmarked in death as in life”, “i don’t want to be brave, i just want to be myself”, etc. not to mention that merlin hides who he is in the fear that his best friend and the person he was born to protect won’t think of him the same or might execute him. majority of the characters with magic don’t have love interests; merlin has one the entirety of the five-season show which lasts for one episode, morgana doesn’t have any at all. not to mention, one of the show runners said that they ”considered the very last episode as a love story between two men” but then saying that magic is in no way metaphorical for anything. we were robbed and words can’t explain how mad i am.
Also perhaps that it's just me but I felt there was no chemistry between gwen and arthur. Like there was more in 5 minutes of eye contact with lancelot and in the first meeting between merlin and arthur than the whole of gwen and arthurs relationship. 🤷♀️
'Merlin' is a very fine show, not because we can view 'magic' as a metaphor for being gay or what the writers did with the two main characters (Merlin/Arthur). We may lament the absence of any open gay signs (we got just one hug, that's all. one freaking hug in 5 seasons) but we could be grateful for what they did: they showed us Merlin/Arthur as two young men (that was new), this pairing had the most scenes together and the actors were so talented, handsome and obviously liked each other their chemistry spilled all over the place and made their banter that much more watchable.
Especialy Sam was sooooo gay. Obsessing over his youth friend Rose Hüttinger too shy to talk to her at the start, talking about going back to her during their time in Mordor and in the end marrying her in the end shortly after getting back. If that isn't gay I dont know what is ~.~ *sarcasm off*
thank you so much for this: after The Old Guard (which features arguably THE single most romantic declaration of love in recent pop culture memory... with two men who are also canonically married!!), marvel simply has NO excuse. I love how you mentioned the memory-loss-reversed-by-true-love trope (both Carol/Maria AND Kirk/Spock)... and it made me realize that marvel ALSO used this trope for Steve/Bucky (who had undergone 70 years of brainwashing/torture, yet it took one sentence that was the equivalent of a marriage vow from steve to undo it). i will never not be furious about the ending Steve got, particularly when Endgame itself established that Peggy worked down the hall from the very war criminal (Zola) who tortured bucky/killed POWs in the first avenger and likely would have been put on trial at nuremberg had SHIELD not... shielded... him via operation paperclip. These were details that steve WAS AWARE OF because zola himself TOLD HIM that he was invited into peggy's agency... while peggy was director. steve realized the agency was bad and compromised from its very inception and hydra grew within it BECAUSE their agendas were aligned (yes! please acknowledge the evils that were perpetrated by america's own intelligence agencies, including the CIA/FBI!) to the point where he burns it to the ground... BUT THEN HE GOES BACK IN TIME AND JUST CHILLS WITH A CHARACTER WHO WAS ESSENTIALLY CREATED TO GLAMORIZE THE AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS WHILE BUCKY IS TORTURED FOR DECADES? i'm so very tired.
The Old Guard was WONDERFUL but also made me pissed at all of the other movies that robbed us of scenes like that. Like they worked SO WELL and were one of the best parts of the movie, and if other major media companies weren't COWARDS we could have so much more like that.
In regards to Stucky I honestly don't see how sending Steve to have his "happy ending" with Peggy wouldn't change the timeline.It would affect everything, because both him and her are very influential people in their country.
Carol and her best friend ARE a couple in the comics. They particularly removed that relationship context for the movie, yet left in all the romantic undertone.
(trigger warning for depression and trauma in regards to Steve Rogers and Endgame) This video coincided with a VERY deep Stucky rabbit hole I'm currently in, you expressed everything so wonderfully, thank you so much for that, and sorry for dropping my rant here but I thought it would be a good place to ventilate a bit more about * shudders * Endgame. Personally, I always headcanonned Steve as bi, and since I was never expecting Stucky to be made canon, I honestly wouldn't have minded if Steve had, let's say, decided to live with Sharon in a cabin in the woods and never fight again, not. at. all. What rubbed me the wrong way about the ending most than anything is what it means for Steve himself in terms of identity. You articulated my thoughts amazingly in regards to Peggy literally not having autonomy or a choice, but I feel that happy ending = traditional family is just the tip of the iceberg of how deeply unsettling the "choice" he made is. Steve at the end of the movie is trapped in what would basically be his worst nightmare. He's in the past, he knows everything that is going to go wrong with the world and can't do anything about it. Hell, Bucky was probably being tortured at the same time Steve and Peggy were dancing to *the song that is played when Bucky re-enters his life, which is now all of a sudden reeeeally romantical (sorry, I digress)*. For the majority of his character arc, his biggest fear was not being able to heal his trauma, not being able to move on and not being able to stop fighting, and now? he doesn't have his support system anymore, he'll now live in an extremely prejudiced society (which is troubling since Steve himself, even extrapolated from Bucky, can be very easily read through a queer perspective) and his trauma is noooot going to disappear just because he fulfilled a depressive-like fantasy that was honestly just construction to not have to deal with everything that happened to him. i. hate. it. in. here.
THIS. There is no happy ending in the resolution to steve's arc (and no explanation for it outside of heteronormativity): docs.google.com/presentation/u/1/d/1hhBTTCZVLeyQj6xsHgiarhGrDf7a-TiMQuPZYC_IPJk/edit#slide=id.p Honestly when people act like it's some kind of perfect love story it makes me recoil: they never even dated, kissed once, and she had a chance to dance with him in that pub but turned and walked away. Oh, and she shot at him a few times. How in god's name can ANYONE find this tripe emotionally satisfying?
@@anoncreamsicle8572 omfg that's the best freaking PowerPoint I've ever seen (and also reminds me of the fic One Cloud Feels Lonely because of... reasons). Yeah, I agree. I feel like most people just forgot about how little time they actually spent together in TFA (but hey, that's Hollywood's take on heterosexuality anyway, who cares about actual development), since Endgame spent three hours literally hammering everyone in the head with that compass that should've burned in the Artic dammit and that Peggy was the love of his life because of *reasons* (again, it can very easily be read through a queer lens. I can believe that Steve really respected her, and in the 40s respect = you have to be attracted to the person and marry her to fulfill your heterosexual destiny). I honestly never minded Steggy or their interactions (although they're problematic at times lol) but the whole thing was just so stupidly executed I can't avoid feeling enraged. It's just.. so ridiculous that Disney is *that* scared about having queer characters on screen that they're willing to change the ending and reshoot scenes of a movie to avoid even acknowledging any kind of emotional conversations. En-raged.
@@TheLittleFangirl That stupid compass was a stand-in for the relationship development they were too lazy to write. The photo wasn't even one that she gave him: he cut it out of a newspaper. It's... such a hilariously apt metaphor re: the "love story"'s flimsiness. The first avenger tricks people into thinking their romance is more substantive than it is: they blaze past almost a year of steve on the USO tour and 2 years fighting in the field with the commandoes by using montages. He only meets up with Peggy FOUR TIMES IN TOTAL, EVER, but those moments are never sped through with a montage. The film never even gives them a letter-writing montage to establish that they were communicating while he was on the front (she was in London the whole time). Straight people get romances canonized for simply breathing next to each other, I swear. I will never ever get over how bucky was the FIRST person in the universe to die after Thanos snapped: we saw the death from STEVE'S POV for maximum emotional impact (this was even stated in interviews). Then, how does Endgame follow this up? No meaningful interactions whatsoever until Steve abandons him for 80 years, immediately after Bucky has just been dead for 5. WHAT???? (And don't even get me started on how Sam became a fugitive from the law for steve, and steve repaid him by going back to segregated america. The optics are horrifying.) Honestly it is one of the most embarrassing, ham-fisted, by-committee solutions to a character's arc that i've ever seen. And the fact that they sent a vocally anti-facist character created by two jewish men back to PRE CIVIL-RIGHTS AMERICA during a rise in global white nationalism/fascism? unforgivable.
@@anoncreamsicle8572 PREACH. Also, how on earth is that photo still there, it was underwater for 70 years, it should've been a crusty wet white paper by now. Love those parallels with the ending!! The worst thing for me is that they're just so so so SO aware of what they're doing, and their rotten intentions end up poisoning every attempt of actually enjoying the canon material, it just seems so pointless since everything is just so stupid and painful, ugh. The snap scene is probably one of the most offensive examples of how they use Bucky as literal bait for the audience. "Hey, look at that queercoded abuse survivor you like, are you suffering yet? Great! Because we're now going to focus on money, the one and only important thing in this franchise lol". I remember watching that scene on the theatre and forgetting how to breathe, it was so painful and you could just * feel * the devastation and shock when Steve tenderly touches the ashes on the ground (the i-hate-it-in-here intensifies). I even read somewhere (and I'm not sure how true it is, but sounds stupid enough to be true) that when RDJ was improvising a monologue for one of the argument scenes (I think after the time jump?) they even said to him not to mention Bucky or anything civil war related (same thing happened on their first confrontation, that is just completely illogical, everything that happened in Civil War is just removed from the narrative) since the script couldn't afford the audience being reminded that Steve has something else apart of that compass to be the cause of all his pain, or that he has an emotional connection to any character that isn't Nat or Tony, who coincidentally are killed off at the end to push the "Steve has nothing to stay for now!" thing they were trying to shove down our throats. And to be honest, it's very simple to see that they just can't, from a corporate point of view, give Bucky any kind of personality or emotions if Steve is involved that don't serve the general purpose of him being a plot device (fellas, is it gay to actually deliver on the narrative beats you set up?) since they're so stupidly concern with any of the character being read as queer that they're so desperate to write the stupid comment of "HEY BUCKY REMEMBER THAT GIRL YOU DATED ONCE??" when the characters hadn't even had any full conversation on the movie. God, I hate them. But with Sam? They just don't care. The way they sideline him in Civil War is just plain bad writing, and they only remember that he's there when it helps them pull a * we're so progressive righT? * card out of nowhere. Congratulations! One of your 5 poc characters is captain america now, you're still racist!!!
@@TheLittleFangirl the fact that steve never ONCE mentioned his dead best friends (and apparently just left Nat to run the avengers on her own for those 5 years? but HE "deserved" to "rest" at the end of it all for some reason??) was such a massively discordant choice: it was never more obvious than that AWFULLY written group therapy scene, wherein steve has the AUDACITY to compare the "love of his life" (who, he literally says in the very same sentence that he "JUST MET" before "going into the ice" - hilarious!! and if he was *actually* in love, why wasn't "I love you" his last words to her before going down? And why did he tell Fury that he just "had a date" when he woke up? Oh yeah, because they retconned everything for that horrible, shoe-horned, heteronormative ending) to the MARRIAGE of a man grieving his husband. it's almost as if straight people (including the film-makers) hold a marriage between two men at the same level as a guy who missed out on a dance with a woman he never actually dated. it's appallingly insulting. (I'm honestly shocked they had it so the dumb compass wasn't enough to convince 2012-Steve to stop fighting: it was 2023-Steve saying "Bucky is alive" that did it. Are they admitting that Bucky is Steve's greatest weakness and that Steve himself sees him as a liability? Yikes.)
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tolkien was bi and didn't know about it and thought that those feelings were a normal thing between friends. Like, I wrote a PLAY about two gay girls in the 50's and I fantasized about playing one of them and kissing the other in front of my school... and I still thought I was straight. But even if he wasn't, it is okay to interpret it that way. Like, if you don't see them as gay, you do you, but don't be mad at others for thinking differently.
This actually a pretty common theory in the Tolkien scholar world. A.G.V. McPherson on twitter wrote a thread about Tolkien's relationship with his good friend and poet Geoffrey Smith who was most likely gay and in love with Tolkien. However, Tolkien was already in love with his future-wife Edith, so most likely it wasn't that he did reciprocate the feelings for Smith because of lack of attraction but because he was already in love with someone else. This is easily seen in the Sam-Frodo-Rosie dynamic in the LOTR trilogy (especially in the end of ROTK where Frodo just has Sam and Rosie literally move in with him). It's worth reading about because there's definitely a foundation here.
@@kataangluv100 Oh my god. This is the first time I've heard about this. How can this be the first time I heard about this?? I'm so sad that the Tolkien fandom has such a huge racist/alt right/super religious subset, it makes it so hard to have conversations about stuff like that.
Definitely bi and didn't know it, he was so defensive of Legolas and how people should envision him (which was to be a manly man and would get so pissed about people thinking he was a pretty boy [lol]) that there just isn't a heterosexual explanation.
Carol literally has a memory of singing Kiss Me Deadly with Maria, she was raising Monica with Maria prior to the event that gave her powers, the whole thing about her regaining her memories of her life from before ties her to Maria, and with her interactions with Yon at the start of the movie, she’s undeniably bisexual, but we can all see how they’ll try so hard to make Carol seem straight in the sequel, if she ends up with the gaslighter then Disney clearly knows nothing about healthy relationships.
@@marajoy7226 I didn't say it didn't make money I'm saying it was badly rated aside from critics. The backlash it got from the general public saying how it was a bad movie was ridiculously high
@@orangegreen3769 79% on Rotten Tomatoes is more than Iron Man 2, the first two Thor films and Age of Ultron. They got sequels and only one of them made over a billion dollars. I genuinely don't understand why you'd be surprised that Disney would want to maybe make another billion dollars following up a film that got a pretty decent reception outside of fringe communities on the internet. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Here are some more movie couples that are so gay but just didn't happen: - Sirius and Remus from HP, they are literally married istg - Dean and Seamus from HP, ok but they are actually in love with each other - Protagonist and Neil from Tenet, they are just slowly but surely falling in love with each other throughout the movie, it's also an amazing movie everyone should watch - Eames and Arthur from Inception, their moments and interactions are filled with tension and just love and looks and ahhhh, we deserved more feel free to comment more!!!
just like how men are more accepting of lesbians than gay people. it's attraction. women are usually more attracted to men, so, double the men double the amount of people in a couple you can be attracted to. there's also the part where in a straight relationship, you're often supposed to imagine yourself in the counterpart that shares your gender, because subconsciously you *will* be doing that. you can't do it with a gay couple and a lot of the times people don't want to. it's accepted in women to sexualize gay men much more than it is for men to sexualize lesbians, and i guess that's like a... women are more romantic thing? idk, but if dudes were on the same level of romanticizing and sexualizing couples, they'd probably also be the ones writing the most lesbian fanfics (you can go pull up a million vids of dudes watching movies where there's a lesbian kiss and they'll be super excited about it) - also, there are probably more straight women dabbling in writing who enjoy guys getting together than there are gay men, so go figure. i bet lesbian fanfiction also has majority female writers honestly. (sorta cuz' society teaches women to do stuff like romanticize much much much much much more than it teaches men to, in fact they're more likely to be taught the opposite.)
If you want the perspective of someone who writes mlm stories primarily over other romance types, you can read this comment. I'll preface by saying that i've been writing for over a decade but haven't published anything to sites or even generally give to friends to read. Also that this is only my experience and i can't speak for anyone else. I am willing to chat about this and don't really think there's much that i wouldn't want to say, so feel free to ask questions if you have genuine ones. Still reading? Okay, let's go. My writing is my escape. In the stories i write, i can set the world and create the characters. Often times, the characters are real for me (as in, when i talk about the characters, it's like they're real people and i can't make them do what they don't want to, so it's almost like what i write is just documenting what they'd do in a given situation). If what i'm writing is fanfic, then i start with characters that are more real to me and have more set personalities, then find other characters either from the story or an oc that they would go well together with. Pairing this with a general distaste for my own body and the sexualization of women in other media (think anime boobs), it is easier for me to picture two men than a man and a woman, and often times male characters are more fleshed out to even have a fanfic about. I do find that it is a distancing tactic. When i wrote female protagonists, they often times ended up being me and it was hard to have them make meaningful decisions in the story because of it. But if i write a male protagonist, i can't properly convey how they would have an attraction to their female counterpart. There's also the aspect of exposure to decent works in media. I've read a lot of manga in my life. I started out with shoujo because it was expected, but it was all romance and got old quick. I moved on to shounen and tried to find works where there were few if any women because they were invariably going to be sexualized. That of course led me down the path to shounen ai and yaoi, where women were basically non-existent. Fewer women for fanfics to be based off of and more men with (although oftentimes bad/abusive) relationships with other men. I agree with the person who commented above me that it does boil down to attraction a lot of times, but also generic wish fulfillment and desires. Two people of the same sex are often on closer footing than two people of the opposite sex (what they're allowed to or supposed to do) and can be considered a forbidden love like older stories of nobles falling in love with someone below their status. I'm going to leave it there since it's become a long reply. I know it's been a week since the original comment post, but if you do end up seeing this or if anyone else wants to chat more about it, I wouldn't mind
@@RapidObsessor no problem. I enjoy thinking about this kind of stuff deeply, so it's always a pleasure to be able to talk about these weird topics. I'm also pretty open about it so it never feels like I need to hide my reasoning, either
@@catelynh1020 yea I think I just have a hard time with it because I'm a wlw, and I still prefer reading mlm fanfiction and I can't figure out whether if it's just because it's more available/there's better writing out there, the sexualization aspect, or the opposition to self-insert characters.
I'm about 90% certain it's only not canon because the writers (or maybe Disney higher ups) wanted to gauge the reaction before they committed. So they took it far enough to still JUST have enough room to be able to wriggle out if there was a backlash to the implications.
Okay, but Kirk didn't just go against the upper ups to protect Spock. He stole the bloody Enterprise and *blew it up* to save the vague remnants of Spock's consciousness. Like, he didn't know Spock had a body they could shove his consciousness back into. So, that's a lot to unpack.
This so much. I remember back in school, my class spent some time on that movie and got to do a group project where we, as a class, had to roleplay a scenario in which Mr Keating got put on trial for the events of the movie and me and my friends got tasked with preparing Todd's witness statement. Did the witness statement end with me as Todd having a breakdown and blurting out that Todd was in love with Neil? Yes, yes it did. The movie might not have made it gay, but we did (and my teacher was in full support of it, shoutout to you, Ms Heath)
Okay but Legolas and Gimli. That didn’t really come out much in the films, but in the books there was the classic “enemies to friends to lovers” thing, never leave each other’s side, Legolas resisting the sea longing (partially) to stay with Gimli, and Legolas taking Gimli with him to Valinor. But I love the complex relationship between Sam and Frodo too
"i love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, but i love him, wheter or no" Saying that while watching your homie sleep and thinking about how beautiful he is... No homo tho.
@@baguettegott3409 the Tolkien Fandom has 2 sides. One of them is just people liking the thing, and the other are the ones screaming about a black man being on the cast of the Amazon series
@@justsomedudete3320 True. There's a really fun side (and as usual it is the gay side :D) of people who adore Tolkien's world and his writing and who are just having a good time being nerds. And then there's the racists, the super religious people, and the alt-right people who like it because of the viking-aesthetic, because of some blood-and-soil vibe they read into it. I really hope they make the amazon series gay lol. Because, like, those people are gonna hate it either way because it has people of color in it, so why not make it more fun for the rest of us? :D
I really appreciate you adding singing in the rain! I feel like polyamory gets set aside in these convos and it's nice to get some attention on polyam couples too Important to acknowledge Ian Mckellen said he specifically gave sam and Frodo's actors advice that would make the way they played them more gay. Ian Mckellen was doing the Gay Agenda on the set of lotr
@Altema Fnfjfkfkfk yeah okay buddy. I'll tell all the serial muderers and rapists they're off the hook bc Altema said actually polyamory is the worst thing you can do. Because everybody absolutely definitely cares what you alone think about morality. What would we do without your righteous guidance lmao
Me, watching Singing in the Rain: they were roommates Me, watching this video: *oh my gosh they were ROOMMATES* You seriously have opened my eyes to one of my favorite films 😂
dead poets society, anyone? neil and todd were DEFINITELY in love, even the actor who played charlie said they probably were and that the other dead poets wouldn’t be surprised by it
I literally pointed them out to my brothers and they were so pissed "We get it, you're gay, now stop ruining our movies" the gay subtext was there, the yearning was there, and the Latin dude and Nuanda definitely had something going on
okay but like, how would people feel about "gay yearning" merch when I hit 100k 👀
Omg yes we would love it!
_Please_ 🥺
Yeeeeeeeees I need it now on a oversized boodie😍🥺🥺🥺
Rowan Ellis 👀👀👀
GIVE ME SOME "WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!" Shirts
I loove when people say "Oh no it's not a romantic relationship it's so much deeper than that." Like yeah, okay. STRANGE how I can't recall a single straight romantic relationship NOT being explicitly shown because "It's just SO much deeper than that."
Sounds especially ridiculous to me as an aromantic asexual who may never be able to completely get her needs for emotional intimacy met due to amanormativity, romance supremacy, and how those things make most people think that a certain level of devotion and intimacy is only appropriate for romantic partners, and not for people who love each other platonically.
"It's so much deeper than that," coming from people who think that romantic-sexual relationships are the be-all, end-all of existence? Yeah, that's rich.
@Janey Aromantic don't mean you don't get to have deep emotional friendships. The op is worried they may not find this depth of love without romantic love.
Shiiii WE have been saying that since the golden age of Hollywood every time a cishet man and woman walk into a room and are instantly paired up. But the moment it’s an lgbtqa relationship suddenly it’s all “why does it have to be about romance or SEX (dirty! dirty!), friendships are important!!”
"why can't Frodo and Sam just be good male friends, why does it always have to be gay 😣"
Right and if it’s so much deeper than whey isn’t there any romance shown on screen
tfw captain america and captain marvel are both gay and both have the “restore your memories by seeing you s.o again” trope
Literally they broked their time travel rules to make Steve x agent.
Imagine Bucky and Steve living on a cabin in the woods to finally rest from all the battles, Steve would braids bucky's hair just for mocking and fall sleep on each other arms after a day of work.
hercules neira EXAAAACTLY, it’s like they weren’t even trying to hide the cover up at that point, you know it’s bad when you have to break the cannon established 30 minutes ago just to keep your characters undeniably hetero
@@reptilianviolinist if Bucky was a girl they would be together in the cabin, I wanted to see them together (even holding hands would be enough for me). At least now Disney gave us amity
hercules neira literally, replace any scene with them in it with a girl and a guy and it’s undeniable
@@reptilianviolinist or put them cowboy hats on a sunset. Works the same.
Kenny Ortega, director of the highschool musical movies who himself is gay, confirmed that Ryan was meant to be openly gay, but decided to make him closeted gay (relying on context clues) because he didnt think it would fly for 2006 Disney. But wow how imagine how sad it would be to want to represent yourself in the movie YOU'RE directing and not being able to.
I'm so happy Netflix is giving him the freedom to do that!
I think that Kenny Ortega said that he believes that Ryan comes out in college
Robert Downey jr. has said that he played Sherlock Holmes as gay and in love with Watson because it made sense to him.
I love him so much
I feel happy now. Thank you for this information.
Not against it but RDJ was going up against Avatar and it seemed to man he was using it as a pr move. But if they kill Mary in 3 and have them be together so be it.
I can totally see Sherlock as gay but John Watson is like the straightest person in both the films and series. I absolutely don't ship them and I think it's VERY problematic how people even send death threats to both the director of the BBC Sherlock series and the actress of Mary Watson just because their weird fantasies about Johnlock. It's actually disgusting
@@barracuda0405
On that we agree, it's obvious that if Hannibal ever gets a 4th season or a movie that Fuller have been won over by the outpoor of Hannigram fans and it would be about them being together. In some way shape or form. Although if they go full on couple is hard to tell since while it's clear Will does have very complicated feelings towards Hannibal. He's straight while Hannibals seems to be above labels all together.
What's somewhat ironic is that the same people wishing for certain male friendships to become romantic. Are the same people who complain how toxic male friendships are in media. Not understanding that male friendships can be complicated but that when men do form an intense loving bond that has nothing to do with romantic feelings. We will stop viewing them as friends and treat them as brothers. Often a brotherhood that depending on the situation can be closer than a real brother. Because you chosen each other rather than being forced by it just because of blood. We can still make fun off or challenge each other when one party has lost it's way. But when the chips are down you would take a bullet for them or their family if needed.
I'm lucky enough to both have brothers and sisters through friendships I value above anything else. People who say men and women can't be friends have sadly missed out on one of the great joys in life. I know I've missed out on my fair share of basic human experiences in my life. But if my choices are die a virgin or not having female friends, I choose the former without hesitation.
I can understand if you are gay and there are two friends who's friendship seems to go deeper than blood that like how people ship straight characters that they wish and ship gay characters.
And that is totally fine, but when you go further than saying you disliked a direction, or perhaps really hated and was mad is acceptable. Where it becomes unacceptable is when any of the people making it gets serious threats thrown their way. Yes even non famous people will likely at somepoint experience getting threatened online by some disturbed but ultimately harmless keyboard warrior. That being said, it's not like crazy fans haven't taken it one step further so you have to treat threats as if an empty gun is aimed at you. Even if you know for certain that it's empty it's that kind of carelessness that get's people hurt at best or killed at worst.
"the half a dozen ao3 tabs open on my computer"
ma'am you have no idea how much of a mood that is
Try 2 dozen
I literally found out that there is a limit to how many tabs open on my phone BECAUSE of ao3 (if you include the private tabs, it’s 1000)
Half a dozen? Amateur numbers 😤 /lh
Oh I feel seen❤ I'm only obsessed with Snarry (Professor Snare/Harry Potter)
I have 30 beat that
Had Finn and Poe been made a couple in Star Wars it would have filled some holes for me. It was clear that Finn and Poe bonded somehow in the films, but they also barely knew each other. If they were both gay and attracted to each other, that would have provided better support for why these guys hit it off. I kept wondering, why are these guys suddenly buddies?
My reaction, as I read “boned” instead of “bonded”: 👁👄👁
OMG yess, this was indeed the main reason for me to think that they'd be a couple!!!!
I think they and the director wanted it to happen but disney vetoed it. Also Finn was force-sensitive (?) but that got edited out mostly too.
They fought side by side saving each others lives? Contrary to common beliefs, men are not all about sex. When Finn and Poe meet, they face a common challenge (escape from that First Order Star Destroyer) and cooperate to overcome it. They're both in crisis mode at the, and "oh me see hot person, me wanna boink" is about the last thing that enters a man's mind in situations like that. They hit it off because their lives literally depend their ability to cooperate without knowing each other. When men face huge challenges together, they put their egos aside and essentially become a part of something larger than themselves, and if they're lucky something that's larger than the sum of the parts. And while this starts out very task- and context oriented, it is a strong bonding experience in its own right that doesn't need to be supported by sexual or romantic attraction. In fact: romantic or sexual attraction go against the very nature of that bond, because attraction is in essence about realization of the self, while the bond created by overcoming challenges together is an experience of dissolution of the self and - provided the challenge overcome is large enough - the latter can create bonds that are deeper and stronger than sex or romance could ever be. Ascribing sexual and/or romantic attraction to characters that form this type of bond of sullies the beauty of it.
I find it kind of annoying that whenever men bond in this fashion so many people jump to the conclusion that they must be secretly gay. A) It depicts men as though they're sex-maniacs and b) separates them from each other. Bonding with members of your own sex in non-romantic, non-sexual ways should not be considered so odd it require a "no homo" clarification. And for the record: That's not me saying "gay romance has no place in movies", just "I don't want depictions of this type of bond between men to disappear in favour of gay romance". Those types of bonds both have a right to be represented, just not in the same couple, because that's not how the male psyche works.
MrAranton While you make a really good point the actors themselves confirmed it and wanted it to happen but disney wouldn’t do it. As a society we need to talk more about having serious friendships though because I am a little sick of the inability to platonically love someone, so many people don’t realise that love isn’t just for relationships :(
Captain america went back in time to spend his life with Carter after dating her niece who wasn't born yet and who he kissed for the first time the day after Peggy's funeral. If he didn't erase Peggy's future family by doing this, he would have some very uncomfortable knowledge about Peggy's niece.
This wouldn’t happen, and it’s actually partially explained in both Endgame and the end of season 7 AOS. Basically, Cap could go back and have a life with Peggy creating a different timeline where they grew old together and may or may not have had children. And then could navigate the time stream to go back to the main timeline of the primary mcu to hand over the mantle of Captain America to Falcon, and peacefully pass away.
Lorenzo Gonzales wiping out a whole family in a different timeline is still wiping out a whole family. Who’s he to decide “eh, there are enough Sharons, she doesn’t need to exist in this one.” It’s fucked up.
and i can't fucking understand how he could be able to LIVE with the knowledge of Bucky being tortured by nazis for decades. Even if it created another timeline and he did save Bucky there, that Bucky is not HIS Bucky, it's not the Bucky he fought so hard for in his movies. he just leave his Bucky behind to go bang his past lover, a woman who already moved on from him, like...... ok steve, whatever.
Victoria Rivas or that SHIELD is compromised by Hydra agents by the 60s at the latest
time to go binge-read fix-it fics again~
I'd love to see a video on how fanfic is so *gay* but not actually all that *lesbian* when it comes down to what characters and ships and headcanons become popular.
Almost all the m/m fic I’ve read has been written by straight girls, and the good ones are usually written by lesbians or bi women. W/w fic I’ve read is almost always written by lesbians, and is SO much better, if scarce.
unfortunately fanfic is overrun by straight girls who think boys fucking is really hot but girls holding hands is absolutely revolting
i cannot express how much i want this video
i'm personally in the early planning phase of a series of essays on femmephobia in fandom, which arose cuz i'm a femme trans masc enby who's fucking tired of femme male characters essentially acting like they're women in a cis male costume. the void where wlw fic exists seems like it will have an entire essay to itself.
(i've fought hard for my femininity, as someone who's always loved stereotypically girly pursuits but never felt comfortable with them until i transitioned. the way femme men are written literally induces dysphoria.)
anyway. i'm extremely done with (usually white) cishets fandom tbh.
(tho, tbh sometimes it's not just cishet ladies - bi cis women who're married to, or in a ltr with, cis men and who haven't sorted out their internalised homophobia/heteronormativity can be the worst offenders. me and some gender diverse and overtly sapphic friends were recently bullied out of the stucky fandom cuz we started talking about its femmephobia (one of us had a breakdown cuz of it) and the perpetrators were cis bi and straight women in cisheteronormative relationships.)
(to be 100000% clear - i myself am bisexual, i don't deny their queerness at all! i just think they've got cisheteronormative blinders on that they refuse to acknowledge and that's fucking up how they engage with fandom. it's a problem that's supremely fucked so many fandoms.)
anyway i digress lol. yes i agree, i'm here for it
Honestly, most of my favorite fics are Sara Lance × literally any female character and it's almost always pretty well written
It’s because the cultural associations of friendship between two men and two women are very different. Look at something like the Bechdel test, where two named women in film almost never talk to each other about something other than a man. Bechdel originally used this test to argue that this was because hollywood is terrified of lesbian relationships, and she’s fully right.
Also, when cis/het people see a pair like Finn and Poe, they don’t fit their expectation of what gay men look/act like, so they don’t even think of the possibility of them being gay. On the other hand, most cis/het folks’ experience with lesbianis is for the pleasure of straight men, which is not only gross and bad, but it also makes the possibility that two female characters played by conventionally attractive Hollywood actors might end up making out all the more likely in their minds. So they end up not showing any close friendships between two women on film.
Also, fandom is mostly congregated around sci-fi/fantasy works, which are notoriously sexist, and bad at having any women characters. The original Star Wars trilogy has literally one female character, lord of the rings has 2 female characters that never interact, the original series of Star Trek only has 2 female characters, Supernatural, Doctor who, and Sherlock, arguably the three pillars of modern fandom, all don’t have two women who regularly interact, so yeah. Basically, movies and tv shows hate women, and hate lesbians even more
Aside from the Stucky thing being a very likely scenario I also feel that Steve Rogers, as a character, would find out how she (Peggy?) lived her life in his absence, see that there were kids who've now probably got their own families, and not make the selfish choice to go back and undo all of that progress and these people's lives. Doesn't sound like the type of decision he would make.
Yeah wow, when you really think about it, it just gets worse.
Oh it gets even worse. Assuming of course that any degree of logic is applied and the multiple timeline theory is in fact what is happening with the time travel here, the fact that old Steve is sitting on the bench not coming back through the portal means 1 of 3 things must be true.
Option A. All the time travel broke the space time continuum in addition to its own time travel rules and booted Steve back to his original timeline somehow meaning we have no real idea what the alternate timeline looked like except that it had 2 distinct steves one of which had to either remain in the ice an additional 70 years for no real reason or wake up to find Peggy with his alternate timeline self. What Steve did or did not change is unknown but ultimately his remaining there for so long caused significant damage to the multiverse which is very bad. This is somehow the least amount character assassination for Steve.
Option B. We have either been following the second timeline this whole time or we shift to it after Steve goes through the portal but either way there is essentially an infinite spiral of identical timelines which create time travel to save themselves creating a new timeline that then must do the same to save itself where Steve chooses to escape. Now this causes most of the same problems as option c in that the timelines must be very close to identical so see problems with Steve maintaining the timeline below.
Option C. Steve fixed all the damage caused by their time travel in the other timelines and then didn't change anything else after going back to Peggy allowing the timelines to merge since they were virtually identical. This has very bad implications.
Steve fixing all the end game shenanigans back to how they were before means that Steve somehow managed to successfully re-liquify the reality stone, reinject it into Jane, recapture loki, put the soul stone back into whatever pocket dimension it was in and reactivate its whole weird protection thing, somehow resurrect clone or otherwise replace gamora nebula Thanos and his army, and erase the memories of all those hydra agents who now think Steve is hydra, any hydra agents those guys have contacted, Loki, Jane, his past self, red skull, and who knows how many other people who experienced something that absolutely would have changed the future. So already there are problems in that to maintain the timelines Steve knowingly brought Thanos back to continue enacting genocide and one day perform the snap. Plus also put the reality stone back right before it would lead to a small invasion in London but that's kinda small fries at this point.
Already this is virtually impossible and requires a truly astounding degree of callous and selfish decisions on Steve's part but it somehow gets worse once you consider all the decisions Steve would have had to make after going back to be with Peggy. Firstly he would have to decide if he was gonna be honest with Peggy and somehow convince her to go along with all the following horrible decisions or lie to her as well to maintain the timeline. First are basics like coming up with a false identity to hide so that no one knew who he was. I cannot overstate how extremely unlikely that is to work given Peggy was in regular contact with people like Howard and the other commandos who would recognize him but could never know he was alive else they would definitely not act like they had in the original timeline. Given his knowledge of the roots of hydra and how they formed he now had the ability to stop them but he would have to consciously make the decision not to do so and thus allow every single thing they did for the next 70 years and the same goes for all the non-hydra bullshit that would occur. He would have had to let Zola be downloaded. Let hydra reform within shield. Let bucky remain in enemy hands being brainwashed and tortured. Let Howard abuse/ neglect Tony. Let Howard die. Let Tony be blown up and kidnapped. Let the red room continue until Natasha finally burned it down and thus enable the torture of dozens of girls. Let Bruce turn on the machine that would create the hulk. Let Ross drive Bruce into hiding for years. I am honestly unsure of Clints mcu backstory but there probably something tragic there. I'll leave Thor alone cuz different realm and all but I would note that Steve saw Thor call on Heimdall at least once so he could of theoretically tried to help that mess. Let Wanda and Pietro grow up as orphans. Let Coulson die. Let the battle of new York be super bad. Let the scepter fall into hydras hands. Let all iron man 2 and 3 happen. Let Thor 2 happen. Let age of ultron happen which is essentially also letting the sokovia accords happen. Let the bombing of the UN happen. I'll leave black panther alone cuz I honestly don't know how much if any of that Steve could have known about. Same for Ant-Man and Spider-man. Let the whole Thanos thing happen again and thus knowingly allow half of the entire universe to be incredibly traumatized for 5 years and the other half to basically miss 5 years of their lives. Not to go into all the other problems with the snap in the first place.
Also in case it was lost in that mess. STEVE knowingly let BUCKY be TORTURED for 70 YEARS, when he could have stopped it just so he could have his happily ever after without messing with the timeline.
They could have avoided all this by having Steve come back through the portal as an old man and thus having lived in a separate timeline where he could have made all kinds of changes but having him already sitting there means that (unless option A is true which we are given no indication of) in the main timeline Steve has already been there this whole time in the background and it changed nothing. Steve changed nothing. Steve chose to let all the tragedies happen and did nothing. That is the worst possible ending for his character arc and I'm pretty sure most of it is just because the film didn't bother to keep track of its time travel rules or think through the implications.
@@kyab2815 Okay wow I hate it even more now! Thanks for the really thoughtful comment, I didn't even realise the myriad of other issues with his not returning through the portal.
@@kyab2815 Sounds like the writers just don't bother thinking too much about all the details of everyone's stories and what consequences could arise from their next move. I didn't know about 80% of all that, but even the 20% I did know would be enough reason for Steve not to do it, had he thought about it for a moment. Which I think he would have done had he not been bound by the writers' script.
@@kyab2815 YES. I think that, like with magic systems or futuristic sci-fi, a story/ universe has to have one set of time travel rules that the writers stick with. This not only prevents weird crap like what Marvel pulled, but the limitations can also make the writers come up with more creative solutions to their problems. Also, I agree, Steve's ending was one of the least satisfying of the whole bunch and very out of character.
regina george is a lesbian herself, in this essay i WILL
Omg
you will what?
CONTINUE IT GOD DAMN IT
YOU GOT ME INTRIGUED
You're RIGHT and you should SAY IT
PLEASE DO WE'RE LISTENING
Please continue this sentence. I can't handle this many cliffhangers
*Leia and Han reuniting*
Leia: Same jacket?
Han: Different jacket.
*Finn and Poe reuniting*
Poe: That’s my jacket?
Finn *starts to take it off*: Oh...
Poe *bites lip*: No, no, no. Keep it. It suits you.
Either we’re to believe that everyone in the Star Wars universe is suddenly obsessed with jackets, or the writing is not-subtly creating a parallel between the two couples.
Can you imagine tho?Star wars universe all of sudden takes a 'Project runway' turn and people judge others for choosing cheap fabrics XD
👏🏻
@@jimerodriguez8332 👏✨😂
1. No lip bite(you might be a weirdo)
2. Likely homage to the scene that you're looking way to deep into
3. Confirmed not gay
4. Finn literally told Rey he wanted to runaway with her prior to that scene but you ignored it because...
@@theheart9681 If you can't even acknowledge the lip bite there's no point in having a conversation. 😂
Kenny Ortega recently confirmed that Ryan in HSM was gay, just closeted during the movies because Disney. He said that they(him and other crew probably not exactly Disney execs) agreed that Ryan would come out in College (which means he might be out in Sharpay's movie, he appears in the end and gets stuck in a literal closet)
Was about to comment the same thing.
I think Ortega made I don't dance as gay as he possibly could 😄
I think we all agree that Ryan Evans was so gay for Chad, but they made a forced straight couple with ryan and Chelsea
@@greciapvp9093 They just went to the prom together for MLM WLW solidarity
@@magicmike191v2 whats MLM and WLW?
@@greciapvp9093 Man love man Woman love woman
as a lesbian fanfic writer: please make the ‘why fanfiction is so gay’ video lmao
Check our Sarah Z. She made a video essay called gay fanfiction and explained why it's so gay. Why fanfiction is shamed upon. All the good stuff
please!!!
+
"I'm with you till the end of the line" is literally "till death do us part"
💀 I just can’t.
It is! I saw someone read it as “I’m with you until the end of the line” meaning until my heart flatlines and THAT broke my heart even more!
@@allshookup1640 I am once again in pieces,,,
Steve's ending in End Game was insulting to so many characters. Sharon was just desperate to make out with her mother figure's husband who she'd have known and experienced as a parental figure! Steve suddenly is obsessed with Peggy after he'd already gotten over her in the other films. It was so clearly a push to avoid the whole shipping thing. Because if they just wanted HEA for Steve, they'd have brought Sharon back in. But they knew the relationship with Sharon wasn't built up or accepted well. And so they ruined both Steve and Peggy's character growth in order to make it clear they didn't want people shipping Steve and Bucky.
I whole heartily agree with you on this
Like why just why couldn't Steve and Bucky had there happy ending 🥺
It also implies that Steve doesn't care for Bucky nearly as much as he did because this once hell-bent-on-saving-Bucky man suddenly went back in time knowing full well that his friend was ALIVE and being tortured and DIDN'T GO TO SAVE HIM it just ugh- not even the defense that he didn't want to disrupt the timeline would work because that man was ready to start a WAR over saving Bucky, no way am I buying he wouldn't start a new timeline over him if Marvel wasn't so determined to no homo the relationship. Fix-it fics are the only thing that soothe my soul when thinking about this.
When you look at Bucky's face at the end of endgame, you can tell he isn't happy with Steve's decision to go back. Sebastian Stan said: why would people think Bucky wasn't happy? Because Bucky looked like he was on either the verge of tears or killing someone. And Steve literally risked everything for Bucky. He risked his reputation, his freedom and his life. And Sam and Nat and all them could tell how important Bucky was to him. They literally risked everything basically to keep Bucky and Steve together and Steve threw it in the bin. Like- Steve- everyone except Stony and Sambucky shippers ship it- including Natasha I could easily believe- so...
Not true but ok
this. it literally made no sense that steve finally got bucky back, the man he promised to be with "to the end of the line" aka until death do they part, and then immediately was like lol i'm just gonna leave him and go back in time and stay there and pretty much never see him again. the writers were so blatantly homophobic with this one it made me sick. they ruined one of my favorite characters in marvel.
Take a shot every time you feel attacked, seen, or robbed.
No thanks, I choose life
When you get back from having your stomach pumped at the ER....well watch either Sand or that one film about the Btitish lord in Victorian times that ran off with his ganekeeper, your choice...hey I hear Portrait of a Woman on Fire is most excellent....
So true, I.watched all these movies as a kid and loved the bits she talked about most as a I haven’t figured out I’m gay yet kid
Lola Brennan No, drinking shot
I'd be dead.
all of these ships are making me want to write a graphic novel where its like "mean girls but gay" or "whip it but gay" but alas, i have no work ethic
Lol same
Big mood lol
Im writing a graphic novel that is basically "sleeping beauty but make it gay". Maleficent's daughter falls in love with a certain princess ; )
@@FriendOfMara oh that sounds awesome
@@everfluctuating Thanks! Hopefully I will start publishing chapters on a webcomic site in the next few months!
I genuinely have thought Janice was a lesbian through and through since Mean Girls came out. Like, I've seen that movie so many times and still don't remember her ending up with a guy or ever denying she was gay. Wow, my brain must've been doing some heavy editing all these years - even before I realized I was bisexual lmao
You and many other people probably, just like myself, don't really remember it happening because they end up together literally in the last second of the movie LOL which like, if you're gonna wait that long for something romantic to develop between two characters, you might as well just not make anything happen, specially when there has been no signs, NONE whatsoever of there being anything romantic between the two of them...It might actually have been better for janis to not end up with anyone and to leave the audience with the idea of the possibility that she may or may not be gay because, even if it's not explicit, we can still be hopeful in believing she was... but by making her be with the male friend at the very end, they completely erase the possibility for the audience to imagine it for themselves. Great, hilarious movie over all but they missed that opportunity big time
Jup me too. And im hetero ( I think)
@@orangegreen3769 At least damian got to stay percievably gay, right? I haven't seen it in a while so I only half remember it.
@@penelopeclaire539 I think he did, I hope xD They did emphazise that he was "too gay to function" hahah so my guess is that bit is def canon
Rewatched the movie a few months back for the first time in years, and honestly, Janis being straight is almost acceptable when you consider that Regina is extremely repressed and clearly projecting her own feelings onto the best friend she secretly had a crush on. Rather than confront her feelings, she did what scared, dumb kids tend to do and lashed out at the people around her, fabricating an elaborate, perfectly and totally heterosexual high school life for herself to bury her feelings as deep as she possibly could. I mean, for fuck's sake, Regina's reaction to no longer being queen bee is to join a goddamn ALL-GIRL LACROSSE TEAM.
Long story short Regina and Janis should've been the ones dancing together at the end. They wouldn't have needed to end up together, it's a movie aimed at teen girls, but god damn Tina Fey you can't throw all this at us and pretend Damian's the only queer in town.
Let’s be honest, if young Professor X/Magneto weren’t both men, they probably would’ve been canon. Even the actors see the chemistry. 💀
Ikr. I MEAN COME ON, even the 4 actors acted like they were a couple. MoiraxCharles and RavenxErik WAS SO FUCKING FORCED. I'm sorry
Aren't they brothers?
@@edeniceribeiro7075 wait WHAT 👁👄👁 I don’t think they are, they’re best friends/bitter enemies, at least in the movies
@@btsismyhope2457 idk i just watched one version one X-Men (the animation) and was a long time ago, I'm probably wrong
@@edeniceribeiro7075 oh I never watched that. But in the movies theyre not blood-related at all
As someone heavily involved in the Night at the Museum fandom during it's prime, I AM SHOOK. Al Capone and Napoleon Bonaparte weren't even the strangest part. The second most popular ship is a middle-aged night guard and a 2000 year-old old twink mummy.
The cowboy and the Roman ❤️🔥
@@QAIMIFplays the last part of the series though 😳
"2000 year-old twink mummy" best words ever
speaking of Star Wars, can I just say that Jango Fett is an ace icon? Dude's solution to "I want a son" was to clone himself
Yes.
Man really did say I'm asexual now begins my mitosis
the only reason i'm not liking this is because i don't want to ruin 69 likes
EXACTLY
an ace legend
That goth from Mean girls better be here
Edit: OMG YES
Janice
You called it!
she is in the Musical adaption, so arguably that makes it cannon
@@MadameCorgi is there a musical? You bright my day my dear madam
Rad Raspberry Razmin Fox I also head cannon that Kurt and ram were as well-
Legolas and Gimli traveled together unmarried their entire lives and literally retired together how did that not make it in the LotR mention..
God, I love you for pointing that out!
Right, Legolas brought Gimli to elf heaven!
I saw it as the relationship brothers in combat, that legolas took the dwarf to elf heaven was the pure christian converting the jew to Christianity. Lord of the right is very xenophobic and anti semetic with very militaristic values. So if you know the background of Tolkien so do lord of the ring become very gringy religious, racist and imperialistic.
I read lotr again this year and let's just say i get why my friends are firmly on the "the hobbits are gay" boat.
Glory to the now 300+ team what would you call it.. Legimli? Gimlogas? Leggimolasli?
I just thought about something. Ppl that get upset because they want more portrayals of health friendships literally don’t care that a popular trope in romance is the one where the guy best friend is in love with his girl best friend. Not a single person starts asking why they can’t just be friends then. They only want characters to just be friends when the relationship is gay.
Yup, exactly. In movies/tv if a man and woman are friends everyone always ships them and wants them to end up in a romantic relationship together, and no one ever complains about it or says stuff like “why can’t men and women just be friends? Why are you forcing them to be something they’re not?”. But every single time two women, or two men, have an incredibly close bond that goes well beyond how most friendships are depicted in film, (and that has real genuine potential for a romantic relationship to develop) people complain “why aren’t men allowed to have close friendships? They are just friends” and act like people wanting them to be together is inherently bad and somehow diminishes the entire concept of male friendship. There’s ton of comments saying those exact complaints of “why can’t men just be friends” even in this comment section. It’s a total double standard.
"They gave us a whole outing storyline, and we didn't even get a lesbian out of it." 😭😭 😭 😂😂😂
Even as a straight dude I couldn’t deny the clear sexual tension between Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes.
i think homoeroticism is what happens when men dont know how to write women beyond "they fight with men and then have sex with us"
all the deep emotional relationships are between men
Dem That sure is a problem, but there is this sort of an underlying strength to the shipping of stucky, + outside of the way Cap’s journey concludes in Endgame, there’s no definitive answer to Cap with Peggy, the only moment Cap has a sexual moment in The First Avenger is when he’s forced in to kissing some woman. The Cap and Peggy relationship is none-existent for Steve Rogers in all the films, it’s up to the viewer to assume he cares for her as it is only Peggy who really shows interest, with the exception of how Endgame ends and that did feel like more of a damage control/preventive measure. What I’m saying is: I think you’re right in the that take, but there’s enough, at least for me, to suggest that the emotional weight of the stucky relationship is strong, not because that was the only relationship the writers could give weight too, but because they knowingly gave weight to it. Idk 🤷🏽♂️
@@MrDangerdood oh dont get me wrong, im not denying theres more chemistry and a deeper emotional bond between steve and bucky vs steve and peggy! just giving an explanation for why its so prevalent lol
@@everfluctuating I agree. I appreciated the Steve/Bucky relationship being heterosexual as an example of non-toxic masculinity, but literally no one anywhere in the Marvel Cinematic Universe has a deep friendship with a woman. Not even women. Steve and Natasha is the only thing that borders on it. Some history is hinted at with Hawkeye, but the friendship is not SHOWN. Valkyrie/Hulk is probably closest...but Hulk is in a childlike state...
Probably because men aren't expected to show strong emotions towards each other even if it's out of friendship and when they do it's perceived as being gay instead of the characters being close friends
Pretty dumb that JJ Abrams says they have a deeper relationship than romantic, but like they barely even interact in the third movie, which he made.
so deep they never even talk on screen
He's pulling a Roddenbery (the guy from star trek = who's feature in the list with Kirk and Spock) bc when asked about K/S Roddenbery said exactly this... and guess what other franchise JJ Abrams put his dirt hands on and made very heterosexual?
Yes, star trek. It's all a full circle of denied gay romantic relationships.
lmaooo 💀🤚🏻
i have to add
straight media: romantic love is deeper than friendship
also straight media: It'S a DeEp FriENDshiP! RomANce woULd MaKe It CheAp!
Actually, they did interact a few times in the last movie, and lemme tell you, from my perspective those two were already in the married vibe, with the kind of bickering they had going on
“THE AUTHOR IS DEAD BABYYYY” should be a t-shirt or pin
Both. I need BOTH.
Actually, come to think of it, I need that on a mug as well. Yes, definitely a mug.
[sips that good lgbtea] ☕️
Me when jk Rowling is gone
I WOULD ABSOLUTELY BUY THAT MERCH!
The atheist way of saying "God is dead and we killed him" lol
when my cousin came out as a lesbian, one of my first thoughts was "oh that makes sense, her favorite movie as a kid was bend it like beckham"
dude that's literally my favourite film and I'm currently heavily questioning my sexuality
Steve Rogers is a Bisexual Icon for me. Like he did definitely love Peggy Carter, and I believe he loves Bucky too, but yeah, the fact they jumped through hoops to end it with the straight relationship tho is pretty wack :/, when they could have just had them together without doing weird time travel bullshit 😂
@Alec The dragon What's the fic? I'm intrigued.
Yes but the time travel thing is used to set up falcon and the winter soldier so I think it was quite necessary
that would have been so much better and appropiatte, even for Peggy`s Character.
@Alec The dragon sooo just because u read a fanfic of cap gay it makes him gay the fuck u high
I just like Steve and bucky as best friends ngl they obviously love each other but not In romance lol
They should have just made Captain Marvel explicitly gay. Hoards of people were already pissed off because she's woman, so they wouldn't have even lost that much praise 😂
They could have easily made alternate versions for China and America, with one where she reunites into a relationship with M. Rambeau
Her being woman, wasn't the problem.
@Snehil Shrey Then, you didn't pay attention.
@@TheAssassinlord123 almost everything she and the movie does that has been widely criticised has been done by several other male marvel actors and marvel movies with male leads, those actors and movies were not attacked to anywhere near the extent that brie larson and captain marvel were. Even if all the criticisms were valid (plenty of which are not) the extent to which this movie has been targeted is ridiculous if you claim there is no ulterior motive.
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 that was only because, people who didn't like the criticism, made a big deal about it, and accused them of sexism, without even trying to understand why. "You don't like Brie Larson? Oh that must be because you are sexist! You're nothing but a sexist piece of shit!" So of course people got upset, because they don't like being accused of doing something bad, especially of something they didn't do. So they fought back. And when they saw the movie and didn't like it, again they were accused of sexism, because it possibly couldn't be because the movie was bad, right? It had to be sexism! Again people got upset, because they don't like being accused. So no. The reason for the Brie Larson drama wasn't because of sexism, it's because people thought she was unfit as Captain Marvel. But because of people like Snehil Shrey who, to borrow their words, was shrieking about sexism, when it had nothing to do with it, it turned into a big deal. People didn't have any problem with Wonder Woman. That's a movie with a female protagonist, but nobody had a problem with it. You know why? Because the movie looked good, and the actor looked like a perfect fit for Wonder Woman. That's it. That's all that was about. But god-forbid that a movie starring a woman, would be criticized in any way, because that's a big no-no. But I agree that people took it a bit far. It turned into a much bigger deal than it was.
Where's lupin and sirius? They're the definition of old married couple
OMG THANK YOU THEM AND DEAMUS
Okay, I saw deamus and thought of sanders sides, but Seamus and dean were OBVIOUSLY gay! Like, if you can put the other literal children in relationships, you can have them too. Honestly, any romance in that series was unnecessary
Mieko Klein EXACTLY LIKE THEY WERE ALWAYS TOGETHER ANF WHENEVER DEAN DID SOMETHING STUPID SEAMUS WAS LIKE 🥴
Wait they aren't gay for each other
OMG YES THEY
Drinking Game: Take a shot every time Disney ignores gayness
Based Disney
Well now I have alcohol poisoning
How many people are you trying to kill!?
@@avahasson6921 0 All I did was trolling you
1. I'm underage
2. I might die
omg thank you for mentioning the dudes from Night at the Museum, even as a little kid watching this I felt a spark between them LMAO
The biggest surprise here is actually that Singin' in the Rain has fanfic on ao3
ikr i was so happy when i found it
I literally did a dance recital with the songs from singing in the rain I was so confused that there was fanfic but then again it’s ao3
Omg I was so pissed when bend it like Beckham wasnt gay
haha i remember watching it for the first time and like...i LIKED it, but was so disappointed that they DIDN'T end up together. They could literally keep the whole "from a different world" plotline bc both Knightly and the coach are white brits like...
I cant find the link but in an interview the creator said it was originally intended to be gay and the producers told her she couldnt write a character who was both gay AND desi so she had to pick one
literally the only thing i can remember about that movie is that i thought they were gonna be gay and then they weren't and i was apparently so disappointed that i erased the movie from my memory...
I forgot that she wasn’t gay
I was so disappointed that that night I dreamed that it ended with them together
woah woah woah wAIT
THAT COUPLE FROM ROGUE ONE WEREN'T A COUPLE I'M NOT KIDDING I GENUINELY JUST ASSUMED THEY WERE MARRIED WHAT
that was me with oceans 8 I was like "oh they're exes" and didn't even notice the film didn't specifically mention that
Yeah, same. I had no idea it wasn’t supposed to be explicitly gay
Wait whAT? I thought it was canon
I thought the same thing!!! and same with oceans 8 - i left the theatre thinking they were a couple...
If it's any consolation to you, Donnie Yen agrees with you.
The Director of High School Musical said it's gay on purpose Disney is just homophobic. Also, Ryan and Kelsey weren't together, that was meant to be mlm/wlw solidarity.
Yes, also the director Kenny Ortega is openly gay
Julie and the Phantoms is the first kid-oriented content he produced that actually has gay characters and I’m so happy that he’s able to finally do that.
@@gemmamoon5998 He can finally do what he wants. He's free from Disney!!
Btw, you mentioned how Oscar Isaac said he was willing to make Poe and Finn romantically involved and how refreshing that was - Chris Evans said he literally played Cap as a bisexual character.
That’s enough for me
John Boyega was also on board for this
That’s awesome!
We couldve gotten not only the first gay characters, but also the first latino and black gay characters, my goodness...!
@@liberpolo5540 yessss I wish
i... hadn’t realized that they weren’t canon in Ocean’s 8... it was just so OBVIOUS
I would also add Elsa from Frozen to this list! Her character could conceivably have been asexual based on the first movie (which ALSO would have been amazing), but the second film introduced Honeymaren...and I’m sorry, you can’t tell me those two weren’t gay! Come on! They were staring longingly into each other’s eyes while sharing stories over a romantic campfire!
How about... Elsa being asexual AND homoromantic? 💜
Izabella Danielska I like that idea! That definitely would have worked.
Totally! And the fact that Honeymaren literally invited Elsa to stay in the forest... come on
And the movie literally starts with Elsa's call to action, Into The Unknown, being about finding a place where she finally feels she belongs! Where does that place end up being? With Honeymaren. Elsa literally would have had a much more powerful arc if they had made their relationship canon.
I actually would also have liked to see Jess from Bend it Like Beckham as asexual. In an extremely maternal, family-oriented culture that would have taken some adjusting for her parents. She could have stumbled through some confusion with Jules and Joe before figuring it out.
"Look, it just would have been better if it was gay" - me after seeing any straight romance in any movie ever.
HAHAHAHAHA PREACH SIS
@ULGROTHA Totally
@Hopeless Romantic uhmm.. because we like to joke about straight ppl cuz yall were never opressed. when you're homophobic you're actively oppressing us and stopping us from getting equal rights. heterophobia is a joke among lgbtq+ because you will never have to experience any kind of real life discrimination for being straight, while I could get killed for wanting to use different pronouns, another name, or being attracted to the same gender, or multiple genders. no one deserves homophobia because of how mentally damaging it is. Imagine getting shut out by everyone because you liked the opposite gender. imagine how horrible you would feel. so many lgbtq+ have felt that pain that you right now are imagining. Heterophobia is a joke , and homophobia is real life opression. Hopefully this opened your eyes.
edit: mistakes and wording
@ULGROTHA huh?
@ULGROTHA what. the . hell
British accent: Are they gay? They should have been.
@JohnnyTheWolf I don't understand the reference
@JohnnyTheWolf I will watch it, on the topic of the video: judai and Johan OTP
@JohnnyTheWolf yes, original names.
Actually, Steve Rogers screams more bisexual to me. With his story with Peggy. He cleary have feellings for her
But it's so fucking stupid. She's only been in his life for a few weeks at most and I just don't understand how Steve could have been so smitten about her to abandon basically the man he was raised with.
@@yunamchill9169 People fall in love for less and leave their lifelong friends and family. And Steve knew Bucky would be fine. My gripe is with the timetravel rules. Since they establish that you enter a parallel universe instead of your own universe's past, that means that Steve lived out the rest of his days in the other universe, so the old Steve we see is some other version.
But Steve rogers doesn't play that way neither do Bucky and Sam they're much too straight Bucky and Talia Sam and Laurel Steve and Kara
I think Peggy Carter is bisexual I mean look at the two seasons of agent Carter
@@brianlamar5167 you can't be serious about this shit?
that part about being outed before you're even out yourself really struck me. I was labeled gay immediately and it took me up until last year to come to terms with my bisexuality since such a part of it was just deemed non-existant.
Marvel is more ready to make Captain (punches Hitler in the face) America a Nazi than gay.
wasn't that a thing in a canon AU/bad-ending universe where captain america joins hydra??? the nazi of their world
Basically homelander from The Boys
I don’t think you fully understand, he became a nazi in the recent Secret Empire comics, not in the MCU. For one, the MCU is not at all the same universe as the comics and two, the character of Steve Rogers has such a long history of being very straight, you wouldn’t just up and make superman gay, because he’s not, it’s the same with Captain America. You can’t compare two wildly different characters and two different events that happened in completely different universes. I would have been absolutely fine with Cap being gay in the MCU but him being hydra in the comics is completely irrelevant to his on screen counterpart.
@@mattlong5790 People have shipped Steve hardcore in the comics for a long time too with both Bucky and Tony
fueledbylaurax, I know but they can’t make a point with an event that happened in the comics when talking about MCU Cap
Disney sinking every gay ship genuinly makes me worry I will either never get Young Avengers or worse, straight Wiccan and Hulkling.
Oh god I hadn't even considered them making wiccan and hulking straight and now I need to lay down for a full hour
@@RM-cn8pw wow you must be fun at parties...
@@RM-cn8pw Considering the lengths Disney has gone to appeal to Chinese censors this is a legitimate concern. Wish it wasn't but hey that's the crapshack world.
@@RM-cn8pw Marvel, owned by Disney. You know, if you've been paying attention.
@@RM-cn8pw Admittedly, your first comment is a little confusing, "They've barley done this even once", are you referring to Vivi's comment on Disney sinking every gay ship? And what exactly is Vivi wrong about? I'm just trying to understand here
Tbh "vaguely gay stuff with way more historical context than I ever asked for" is my whole aesthetic.
I had repressed that memory of Natasha's storyline, and now I just feel rage
Ikr🤪😠
When Frodo says he has to travel to Mordor alone and Sam says “I know, and I’m coming with you!” Not to mention wading into water after the boat while he can’t swim, almost drowning in the process.
“It’s me.... it’s your Sam!”
Ever think that he did that because he's...you know...HIS OLDEST FRIEND?
@@SSD_Penumbra Dude, that’s like phoenix Wright becoming a fucking lawyer for edgeworth. It’s super gay; the director even gave the actors instructions to make it gay. Stop commenting your bullshit on every comment in this comment section and suck it. If you don’t like gay people, then don’t watch this video.
@@astrocake584 It took you 8 months to write that? Damn dude.
Also, two guys who basically grew up together and are basically brothers and YOU think they are gay? I think you've got issues, my guy. Also "If YoU DoNt lIkE tHe GaYs" would work, except I'm bi and think it's retarded how people just assume two people who basically spend every waking moment together BECAUSE THEY'RE BASICALLY BROTHERS are gay. It's sad.
If you want them to be gay to satisfy some deep seated issues, then you do you, but as for the actual source material and TOLKIEN HIMSELF, they're friends since birth. Deal with it.
@@SSD_Penumbra I didn’t look at the how long ago it was when I commented; I could hardly give a shit.
No one is saying that two men can’t be friends or have a brother like relationship. But when you start saying my Sam. It’s pretty gay. Also I’ve known people who’ve been friends since birth and started dating later in life. Hell, I have childhood best friends; some are like siblings to me, some I’ve crushed on and even dated. It happens; childhood best friends to lovers is a trope for a reason. Also also no one seems to give a shit when it’s a man and a woman. Like blood and bone. The two grew up together practically like siblings, lived in the same orphanage and everything. Ended up crushing on each other. Also also also of course Tolkien wouldn’t say their gay. You do realize when the books were ducking written, right? But I mean, the way he writes them is still pretty gay. I was never like that with my sibling or “siblings.”
Then why deflect? You're forcing a sexuality on two characters that aren't gay. It's sad.
Also, let's talk about "when it was written", during that era, it was very common for two men to be affectionate with each other. It doesn't mean they're gay. For example, there are numerous pictures of the era with men holding hands and bathing together. Men just did that shit together as did their wives.
You talk as if it was uncommon for gay people to exist back then, but you're forgetting writers like Oscar Wilde who literally wrote a book about it.
Okay this is PERFECT but.... im just saying......... Road to El Dorado anyone?
(You cant talk about Singing in The Rain as a poly relationship between two guy best friends / established boyfriends and a girl who gradually gets really! damn!! close!!! to both of them and NOT mention Road to El Dorado, c'mon skdjsjsj)
THERE'S A CUT SCENE WHERE THEY KISS AND YOU CAN SEE A BIT OF IT AT THE END. *EVERYONE* in that movie is gay. (Well poly but my point stands)
Or killer klownz
y e s
dude el dorado is peak poly
Both? Both.
All of this makes me even more proud of the Percy Jackson book series. Rick Riordan nestled himself into Disney and then just wrote his next books in that universe, all including lgbt+ characters.
I hope they don't erase Nico's sexuality...
Solangelo
Uncle Rick is so fucking amazing.
@Suchana Chatterjee I know but his sexuality is not mentioned in the original series so I hope they're not going to ignore it with the excuse it's not canon in the books they're adapting
Suchana Chatterjee I stopped reading after the last Heroes of Olympus book (there was a publication gap but by then I’d aged out of them tbf.) Do we see their relationship grow and continue on-page in a sequel series?
Okay but the fact that Ocean's 8 wasn't canonically gay is downright insulting, I mean apart from everything you've already said they really had CATE BLANCHETT dressed LIKE THAT???? Like yes sure clothing and gender presentation is not always an indicator of sexual orientation etc etc but sometimes it is. And you're not just gonna be THAT gay and dress THAT gay and not actually, you know, be gay.
That damn pan around that is VERY reminiscent of ones traditionally done in het kissing scenes during Bilbo and Thorin’s hug scene will always be absolutely hilarious to me like it’s so gay
They literally shoehorned tauriel and killi in reshoots. Evangeline Lilly only agreed to be in the movie if there WASNT going to be a love triangle and the exhaustion on her face in interviews is palpable. It really felt like a distraction from bilbo and Thorin. “Quick look at the heteros”
I'm gonna read night at the museum fanfic now and nobody can stop you
“29 Characters who should have been gay” YOU KNOW I CLICKED AT MACH FIVE LEVEL GAY SPEEDS
I feel like straight creators talking about a friendship being "better" or even "revolutionary" than a romantic couple when we call for representation don't realise that that's only true when the two people you're talking about are a man and a woman. It's so weird how we're sexualised and desexualised at the same time.
Thank you for the great video, looking forward to the Black Sails one!
It's so bizarre. They say things like that, but the moment aros want deep friendships and lifelong (queer)platonic relationships, it's "bad", "childish", "not real partnership", and "not true happiness because only romance can achieve it". Queerphobes, all of them.
+
@John Jaxson which is an issue with how ppl write male friendships. I don’t think it’s difficult to write male friendships that don’t come off as romantic. Just don’t have them do romantic coded things. I’m convinced that all the ppl trying to write close male friendships have never actually seen one. They don’t look romantic at all.
@@quirkyblackenby my male friends jotean all the time it can be seen as romantic
This was a tv pair, not movie characters, but I was so baffled that they never made Rizzoli and Isles a couple. They were adorable, compatible, and genuinely loved each other.
aND THEY LITERALLY HAD A GAY BAR EPISODE LIKE THERE WAS NO WAY IN HELL RIZZOLI WAS STRAIGHT
THHISSSS
the way sam and frodo look at each other is so heart warming
Seriously though. When I was a kid I legit just believed for a fact that Magneto and Professor X were ex boyfriends. Like I honestly think I remember my mum telling me that when i asked about it. And I was so young i didn't even really know about gay people yet. But I just thought that they were.
They would have been a power couple. In the comic they fuse (it's weird) and they are omega or even beyond omega
Honestly even watching the movies as an adult for the first time i was like..... so they're obviously like ex boyfriends right? Like that's the dynamic here????
It's how actors wanted the story to go (I remember Ian Mckellen being particularly vocal abt it) so I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally played the characters that way. Like Lucas Grabeel and Ryan Evans in High School Musical.
That's awesome
Wait they aren’t? I haven’t really watched most of the X-men movies, but from the few I’ve seen they have a strong gay vibe. I thought they were like dumbledore and grindelwald or something
also worth noting: in the books, sam and frodo give each other forehead kisses, hold hands, etc.
Nice flower crown, my dear Frodo...
(Making Frodo a cute twink was one of the best contributions of the movies to my head canon lol)
Yes because during that time period close make friendship was normalised, men would share beds etc. Just because men are close it doesn't mean they're secretly gay
@@brandongreenhough6735 I can see your point but they were kissing there forheads,like come on
@@thevioletskull8158 men used to hold hands, kiss foreheads, sleep in the same bed etc in that era, the idea of masculinity we view as normal now is an invention of 50s America. Tolkien is a product of an older culture and of a different era. Given that he also stated that the lord of the rings is a fundamentally Christian narrative...it's really not that hard to realise they aren't gay.
@@brandongreenhough6735 The author is dead, Frodo is gay!
Steve Rogers should've been bi, just sayin'. And I really see Professor X/Magneto as more compeling as friendship, but let's be real, everyone sees the chemistry there. Their old versions seem like bitter ex-boyfriends.
I always thought about them as a couple who still had feelings but could not be together because of the society and choices they made ,for example Ashitaka and San from -Princess Mononoke-
I agree with you. Bucky should’ve been bi, too.
Also, with the Sam and Frodo thing: Sam marrying that woman at the end, that could easily be that Sam is bisexual and poly, and Frodo encourages him to be with this other person he loves as well, and they all 3 hang out during their Hobbit activities and are generally a wholesome polycule.
Yes please! Polyamorous representation ayyy
Uh. No.
I actually read a fanfic or two like this back in the day.
Wh- oh my God I've been so blind this whole time 😂
Sam is not gay
Alternate title: Characters you thought were gay but apparently it wasn't canon???
Remus/Sirius might be more literature than film, but this pairing definitely belongs in the fourth category. Remus' experience as a werewolf is (canonically I'm pretty sure) a reference to the treatment of HIV+ people in the 80s. So having that reference and not having him be q*eer falls into the "displaying racism/colonialism but only with white actors" way of thinking. Also, Sirius' character arc pretty much centers around him leaving his family because of their discriminatory views, so his character arc could have been made even more high stakes had he also been q*eer. It would have given him even more reason to leave his family and find a new one. Plus, the lost love aspect of Remus and Sirius reuniting after Sirius had been in Azkaban for 12 years would have made Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix so much better
sorry for the strange typing of "q*eer"; I had to type it like that or the comment was removed
Thank you for this- it explains so much and now I shall scoff at anyone who tries to tell me Wolfstar isn't canon
PERIOD! For me, I already count Wolfstar as canon. Makes too much sense and even David Thewlis (the actor that played Remus) though that Remus was gay and that Sirius was at LEAST a former partner. But NOOOOO. Now that people are asking too many questions about them, let's give Remus a heterosexual love interest coming from nowhere and expect the fandom to forget. Let's forget about an incredible healthy and lovely gay relationship, and let's give people a toxic heterosexual couple (Remadora is hella toxic with Remus leaving Tonks when he finds out she is pregnant).
It's canon and Harry is just an oblivious git that didn't notice that they were romantically and sexually involved. It wasn't there because Harry didn't know it was a thing, not because it wasn't real.
God, I hate JK Rowling so much...
And the relationship between Remus and Tonks was just... no. They were both good characters but putting them in a relationship together was a complete waste of potential of what they could have been. Their relationship was kind of boring and uninteresting, not to mention the reason they broke up was kinda toxic and they had no real chemistry in the first place. It just felt like they wanted to do something with the characters but they just ended up throwing away all the potential they had by not making Sirius and Remus a thing which would have been a way better storyline. Also I feel like Tonks should have been a lesbian. Honestly she was a good character and they kind of did nothing with her, it would be nice if she had gotten a bit more of her own storyline, even if she wasn’t gay but let’s be real she should’ve been.
@@oa5538 EXACTLY
...there was a straight couple in Captain Marvel?
@Snehil Shrey oh yeah! totally blanked there for a sec. thanks!
Snehil Shrey i thought they were both genderfluid?
Me realizing that She’s The Man, Mean Girls, and Lord of the Rings were three of my favorite movies growing up.
Rowan: You’re gay my dude!
"that awful cringe-worthy cameo in endgame" aksjsjsjs i screamed yes i HATE that cameo i always cringe i have to skip that part because i get so mad thank you for the validation
OMG they were co-generals. That's how I feel about Poe and Finn. I also love the thought that try to make so many shows/movies gay is because there are so many more well written male characters to make a couple with.
I'm still surprised that given the superhero craze of the past decade, no one has made a movie about a gay superhero. I mean fox had the rights to the x-men for years, and given that they were losing the market to disney you'd think they could've swung for the fences and make like, a lower budget film about any of the lgbtq characters of that franchise. They would have gotten a lot of free publicity and critical buzz about it.
the more I think about this the more it baffles me. Of the fox xmen films, Deadpool was the most commercially successful and Logan was the best received by critics-and both these films had budgets under $100million. IMO part of the success of these films is because they weren't the mcu- they were new and more daring! And given how disney makes such a big freaking deal about the tiniest smidge of gayness in it's films (beauty and the beast remake, endgame, star wars), one would think fox would have jumped on the opportunity to upstage the mouse by having an on -screen central lgbt character. Hell, some of the first and most prominent queer superheroes in all of marvel are in the xmen comics, it's not like they had nothing to work with.
well the New Mutants has a lesbian love story between Rahne and Dani, so at least they were more open to new things than Disney.
at least we have the lesbian couple in deadpool 2
i think bbc’s merlin, though being a tv show and not a movie, definitely fits into category four. magic is something people are born with and can’t change, the main villain’s goal for the first three seasons is to completely irradiate magic in his kingdom, which pushes his daughter away (who was also born with magic) so much that she becomes the new villain. and the writers including lines said by people born with magic like “until [magic is widely accepted], we go unmarked in death as in life”, “i don’t want to be brave, i just want to be myself”, etc. not to mention that merlin hides who he is in the fear that his best friend and the person he was born to protect won’t think of him the same or might execute him. majority of the characters with magic don’t have love interests; merlin has one the entirety of the five-season show which lasts for one episode, morgana doesn’t have any at all. not to mention, one of the show runners said that they ”considered the very last episode as a love story between two men” but then saying that magic is in no way metaphorical for anything. we were robbed and words can’t explain how mad i am.
i straight up stopped watching that show because the fact that merlin and arthur weren't gay was infuriating to me.
Literally though the sexual tension between Arthur and Merlin was PALPABLE
Also perhaps that it's just me but I felt there was no chemistry between gwen and arthur. Like there was more in 5 minutes of eye contact with lancelot and in the first meeting between merlin and arthur than the whole of gwen and arthurs relationship. 🤷♀️
'Merlin' is a very fine show, not because we can view 'magic' as a metaphor for being gay or what the writers did with the two main characters (Merlin/Arthur). We may lament the absence of any open gay signs (we got just one hug, that's all. one freaking hug in 5 seasons) but we could be grateful for what they did: they showed us Merlin/Arthur as two young men (that was new), this pairing had the most scenes together and the actors were so talented, handsome and obviously liked each other their chemistry spilled all over the place and made their banter that much more watchable.
this this this!!!! the magic lgbtq+ metaphor CANNOT just be a random oopsie
My wife and I are a straight couple and I mentioned Frodo and Sam in my wedding vows. They definitely should be seen as a gay couple.
Aw, that's so sweet!
That is so cute.
That is so cute! okay, but now when i get married me and my partner are totally doing that
Especialy Sam was sooooo gay. Obsessing over his youth friend Rose Hüttinger too shy to talk to her at the start, talking about going back to her during their time in Mordor and in the end marrying her in the end shortly after getting back. If that isn't gay I dont know what is ~.~ *sarcasm off*
@@Wehrfrettchen he could be bi you know
bold of you not to include tulio and miguel from road to el dorado
This generation is in need of a film where the gay character overcomes more than just their identity
Surprised Velma wasn't on this list
the creators have confirmed that velma is a lesbian!
velma is a lesbian ^^ the creators confirmed it. they said they put hints in the show on how uncomfortable velma was with shaggy.
@@user-by1df8ok3l Hell, yeah!
Hell yeah dude
I always thought bend it like Beckham was gay. When I watched it as a kid all my friends and I talked about as a gay film
thank you so much for this: after The Old Guard (which features arguably THE single most romantic declaration of love in recent pop culture memory... with two men who are also canonically married!!), marvel simply has NO excuse. I love how you mentioned the memory-loss-reversed-by-true-love trope (both Carol/Maria AND Kirk/Spock)... and it made me realize that marvel ALSO used this trope for Steve/Bucky (who had undergone 70 years of brainwashing/torture, yet it took one sentence that was the equivalent of a marriage vow from steve to undo it). i will never not be furious about the ending Steve got, particularly when Endgame itself established that Peggy worked down the hall from the very war criminal (Zola) who tortured bucky/killed POWs in the first avenger and likely would have been put on trial at nuremberg had SHIELD not... shielded... him via operation paperclip. These were details that steve WAS AWARE OF because zola himself TOLD HIM that he was invited into peggy's agency... while peggy was director. steve realized the agency was bad and compromised from its very inception and hydra grew within it BECAUSE their agendas were aligned (yes! please acknowledge the evils that were perpetrated by america's own intelligence agencies, including the CIA/FBI!) to the point where he burns it to the ground... BUT THEN HE GOES BACK IN TIME AND JUST CHILLS WITH A CHARACTER WHO WAS ESSENTIALLY CREATED TO GLAMORIZE THE AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS WHILE BUCKY IS TORTURED FOR DECADES? i'm so very tired.
Joe is a hopeless romantic, I did an "awwwwww" so loud that the dogs on my neighbourhood start shouting
i loved Joe's confession scene, but Nicky is such a sap too. I love immortal husbands
YES, OLD GUARD HAS THE BEST GAY COUPLE TO DATE
The Old Guard was WONDERFUL but also made me pissed at all of the other movies that robbed us of scenes like that. Like they worked SO WELL and were one of the best parts of the movie, and if other major media companies weren't COWARDS we could have so much more like that.
In regards to Stucky I honestly don't see how sending Steve to have his "happy ending" with Peggy wouldn't change the timeline.It would affect everything, because both him and her are very influential people in their country.
Carol and her best friend ARE a couple in the comics. They particularly removed that relationship context for the movie, yet left in all the romantic undertone.
(trigger warning for depression and trauma in regards to Steve Rogers and Endgame)
This video coincided with a VERY deep Stucky rabbit hole I'm currently in, you expressed everything so wonderfully, thank you so much for that, and sorry for dropping my rant here but I thought it would be a good place to ventilate a bit more about * shudders * Endgame.
Personally, I always headcanonned Steve as bi, and since I was never expecting Stucky to be made canon, I honestly wouldn't have minded if Steve had, let's say, decided to live with Sharon in a cabin in the woods and never fight again, not. at. all. What rubbed me the wrong way about the ending most than anything is what it means for Steve himself in terms of identity. You articulated my thoughts amazingly in regards to Peggy literally not having autonomy or a choice, but I feel that happy ending = traditional family is just the tip of the iceberg of how deeply unsettling the "choice" he made is.
Steve at the end of the movie is trapped in what would basically be his worst nightmare. He's in the past, he knows everything that is going to go wrong with the world and can't do anything about it. Hell, Bucky was probably being tortured at the same time Steve and Peggy were dancing to *the song that is played when Bucky re-enters his life, which is now all of a sudden reeeeally romantical (sorry, I digress)*. For the majority of his character arc, his biggest fear was not being able to heal his trauma, not being able to move on and not being able to stop fighting, and now? he doesn't have his support system anymore, he'll now live in an extremely prejudiced society (which is troubling since Steve himself, even extrapolated from Bucky, can be very easily read through a queer perspective) and his trauma is noooot going to disappear just because he fulfilled a depressive-like fantasy that was honestly just construction to not have to deal with everything that happened to him.
i. hate. it. in. here.
THIS. There is no happy ending in the resolution to steve's arc (and no explanation for it outside of heteronormativity): docs.google.com/presentation/u/1/d/1hhBTTCZVLeyQj6xsHgiarhGrDf7a-TiMQuPZYC_IPJk/edit#slide=id.p
Honestly when people act like it's some kind of perfect love story it makes me recoil: they never even dated, kissed once, and she had a chance to dance with him in that pub but turned and walked away. Oh, and she shot at him a few times. How in god's name can ANYONE find this tripe emotionally satisfying?
@@anoncreamsicle8572 omfg that's the best freaking PowerPoint I've ever seen (and also reminds me of the fic One Cloud Feels Lonely because of... reasons).
Yeah, I agree. I feel like most people just forgot about how little time they actually spent together in TFA (but hey, that's Hollywood's take on heterosexuality anyway, who cares about actual development), since Endgame spent three hours literally hammering everyone in the head with that compass that should've burned in the Artic dammit and that Peggy was the love of his life because of *reasons* (again, it can very easily be read through a queer lens. I can believe that Steve really respected her, and in the 40s respect = you have to be attracted to the person and marry her to fulfill your heterosexual destiny).
I honestly never minded Steggy or their interactions (although they're problematic at times lol) but the whole thing was just so stupidly executed I can't avoid feeling enraged.
It's just.. so ridiculous that Disney is *that* scared about having queer characters on screen that they're willing to change the ending and reshoot scenes of a movie to avoid even acknowledging any kind of emotional conversations. En-raged.
@@TheLittleFangirl That stupid compass was a stand-in for the relationship development they were too lazy to write. The photo wasn't even one that she gave him: he cut it out of a newspaper. It's... such a hilariously apt metaphor re: the "love story"'s flimsiness. The first avenger tricks people into thinking their romance is more substantive than it is: they blaze past almost a year of steve on the USO tour and 2 years fighting in the field with the commandoes by using montages. He only meets up with Peggy FOUR TIMES IN TOTAL, EVER, but those moments are never sped through with a montage. The film never even gives them a letter-writing montage to establish that they were communicating while he was on the front (she was in London the whole time). Straight people get romances canonized for simply breathing next to each other, I swear.
I will never ever get over how bucky was the FIRST person in the universe to die after Thanos snapped: we saw the death from STEVE'S POV for maximum emotional impact (this was even stated in interviews). Then, how does Endgame follow this up? No meaningful interactions whatsoever until Steve abandons him for 80 years, immediately after Bucky has just been dead for 5. WHAT???? (And don't even get me started on how Sam became a fugitive from the law for steve, and steve repaid him by going back to segregated america. The optics are horrifying.) Honestly it is one of the most embarrassing, ham-fisted, by-committee solutions to a character's arc that i've ever seen. And the fact that they sent a vocally anti-facist character created by two jewish men back to PRE CIVIL-RIGHTS AMERICA during a rise in global white nationalism/fascism? unforgivable.
@@anoncreamsicle8572 PREACH. Also, how on earth is that photo still there, it was underwater for 70 years, it should've been a crusty wet white paper by now. Love those parallels with the ending!!
The worst thing for me is that they're just so so so SO aware of what they're doing, and their rotten intentions end up poisoning every attempt of actually enjoying the canon material, it just seems so pointless since everything is just so stupid and painful, ugh.
The snap scene is probably one of the most offensive examples of how they use Bucky as literal bait for the audience. "Hey, look at that queercoded abuse survivor you like, are you suffering yet? Great! Because we're now going to focus on money, the one and only important thing in this franchise lol". I remember watching that scene on the theatre and forgetting how to breathe, it was so painful and you could just * feel * the devastation and shock when Steve tenderly touches the ashes on the ground (the i-hate-it-in-here intensifies).
I even read somewhere (and I'm not sure how true it is, but sounds stupid enough to be true) that when RDJ was improvising a monologue for one of the argument scenes (I think after the time jump?) they even said to him not to mention Bucky or anything civil war related (same thing happened on their first confrontation, that is just completely illogical, everything that happened in Civil War is just removed from the narrative) since the script couldn't afford the audience being reminded that Steve has something else apart of that compass to be the cause of all his pain, or that he has an emotional connection to any character that isn't Nat or Tony, who coincidentally are killed off at the end to push the "Steve has nothing to stay for now!" thing they were trying to shove down our throats.
And to be honest, it's very simple to see that they just can't, from a corporate point of view, give Bucky any kind of personality or emotions if Steve is involved that don't serve the general purpose of him being a plot device (fellas, is it gay to actually deliver on the narrative beats you set up?) since they're so stupidly concern with any of the character being read as queer that they're so desperate to write the stupid comment of "HEY BUCKY REMEMBER THAT GIRL YOU DATED ONCE??" when the characters hadn't even had any full conversation on the movie. God, I hate them.
But with Sam? They just don't care. The way they sideline him in Civil War is just plain bad writing, and they only remember that he's there when it helps them pull a * we're so progressive righT? * card out of nowhere. Congratulations! One of your 5 poc characters is captain america now, you're still racist!!!
@@TheLittleFangirl the fact that steve never ONCE mentioned his dead best friends (and apparently just left Nat to run the avengers on her own for those 5 years? but HE "deserved" to "rest" at the end of it all for some reason??) was such a massively discordant choice: it was never more obvious than that AWFULLY written group therapy scene, wherein steve has the AUDACITY to compare the "love of his life" (who, he literally says in the very same sentence that he "JUST MET" before "going into the ice" - hilarious!! and if he was *actually* in love, why wasn't "I love you" his last words to her before going down? And why did he tell Fury that he just "had a date" when he woke up? Oh yeah, because they retconned everything for that horrible, shoe-horned, heteronormative ending) to the MARRIAGE of a man grieving his husband. it's almost as if straight people (including the film-makers) hold a marriage between two men at the same level as a guy who missed out on a dance with a woman he never actually dated. it's appallingly insulting.
(I'm honestly shocked they had it so the dumb compass wasn't enough to convince 2012-Steve to stop fighting: it was 2023-Steve saying "Bucky is alive" that did it. Are they admitting that Bucky is Steve's greatest weakness and that Steve himself sees him as a liability? Yikes.)
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Tolkien was bi and didn't know about it and thought that those feelings were a normal thing between friends. Like, I wrote a PLAY about two gay girls in the 50's and I fantasized about playing one of them and kissing the other in front of my school... and I still thought I was straight. But even if he wasn't, it is okay to interpret it that way. Like, if you don't see them as gay, you do you, but don't be mad at others for thinking differently.
This actually a pretty common theory in the Tolkien scholar world. A.G.V. McPherson on twitter wrote a thread about Tolkien's relationship with his good friend and poet Geoffrey Smith who was most likely gay and in love with Tolkien. However, Tolkien was already in love with his future-wife Edith, so most likely it wasn't that he did reciprocate the feelings for Smith because of lack of attraction but because he was already in love with someone else. This is easily seen in the Sam-Frodo-Rosie dynamic in the LOTR trilogy (especially in the end of ROTK where Frodo just has Sam and Rosie literally move in with him). It's worth reading about because there's definitely a foundation here.
@@kataangluv100 Oh my god. This is the first time I've heard about this. How can this be the first time I heard about this??
I'm so sad that the Tolkien fandom has such a huge racist/alt right/super religious subset, it makes it so hard to have conversations about stuff like that.
Definitely bi and didn't know it, he was so defensive of Legolas and how people should envision him (which was to be a manly man and would get so pissed about people thinking he was a pretty boy [lol]) that there just isn't a heterosexual explanation.
@@thelonelywoodstock674 lmaoo legolas is a total pretty boy and i love him for it.
@@skvllbone1594 I literally can't see Legolas as anything but a pretty boy, so when I learned this I laughed way too loud
Carol literally has a memory of singing Kiss Me Deadly with Maria, she was raising Monica with Maria prior to the event that gave her powers, the whole thing about her regaining her memories of her life from before ties her to Maria, and with her interactions with Yon at the start of the movie, she’s undeniably bisexual, but we can all see how they’ll try so hard to make Carol seem straight in the sequel, if she ends up with the gaslighter then Disney clearly knows nothing about healthy relationships.
There's gonna be a sequel?? Wow I'm surprised it is even happening coming from the bad rating captian marvel got and how much Brie Larson is hated lol
@@orangegreen3769 It literally made over a billion dollars, my dude.
Snehil Shrey If she ends up with that gaslighting bat’s turd, I will never forgive them.
@@marajoy7226 I didn't say it didn't make money I'm saying it was badly rated aside from critics. The backlash it got from the general public saying how it was a bad movie was ridiculously high
@@orangegreen3769 79% on Rotten Tomatoes is more than Iron Man 2, the first two Thor films and Age of Ultron. They got sequels and only one of them made over a billion dollars.
I genuinely don't understand why you'd be surprised that Disney would want to maybe make another billion dollars following up a film that got a pretty decent reception outside of fringe communities on the internet. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
The entire "outing" of Janice in Mean Girls was actually Regina not understanding what being "Lebanese" is.
Here are some more movie couples that are so gay but just didn't happen:
- Sirius and Remus from HP, they are literally married istg
- Dean and Seamus from HP, ok but they are actually in love with each other
- Protagonist and Neil from Tenet, they are just slowly but surely falling in love with each other throughout the movie, it's also an amazing movie everyone should watch
- Eames and Arthur from Inception, their moments and interactions are filled with tension and just love and looks and ahhhh, we deserved more
feel free to comment more!!!
if you do make the fanfic video can you talk about why women are the primary writers, but mlm couples are the vastly more popular works?
just like how men are more accepting of lesbians than gay people. it's attraction. women are usually more attracted to men, so, double the men double the amount of people in a couple you can be attracted to. there's also the part where in a straight relationship, you're often supposed to imagine yourself in the counterpart that shares your gender, because subconsciously you *will* be doing that. you can't do it with a gay couple and a lot of the times people don't want to.
it's accepted in women to sexualize gay men much more than it is for men to sexualize lesbians, and i guess that's like a... women are more romantic thing? idk, but if dudes were on the same level of romanticizing and sexualizing couples, they'd probably also be the ones writing the most lesbian fanfics (you can go pull up a million vids of dudes watching movies where there's a lesbian kiss and they'll be super excited about it) - also, there are probably more straight women dabbling in writing who enjoy guys getting together than there are gay men, so go figure. i bet lesbian fanfiction also has majority female writers honestly. (sorta cuz' society teaches women to do stuff like romanticize much much much much much more than it teaches men to, in fact they're more likely to be taught the opposite.)
If you want the perspective of someone who writes mlm stories primarily over other romance types, you can read this comment. I'll preface by saying that i've been writing for over a decade but haven't published anything to sites or even generally give to friends to read. Also that this is only my experience and i can't speak for anyone else. I am willing to chat about this and don't really think there's much that i wouldn't want to say, so feel free to ask questions if you have genuine ones. Still reading? Okay, let's go.
My writing is my escape. In the stories i write, i can set the world and create the characters. Often times, the characters are real for me (as in, when i talk about the characters, it's like they're real people and i can't make them do what they don't want to, so it's almost like what i write is just documenting what they'd do in a given situation). If what i'm writing is fanfic, then i start with characters that are more real to me and have more set personalities, then find other characters either from the story or an oc that they would go well together with.
Pairing this with a general distaste for my own body and the sexualization of women in other media (think anime boobs), it is easier for me to picture two men than a man and a woman, and often times male characters are more fleshed out to even have a fanfic about.
I do find that it is a distancing tactic. When i wrote female protagonists, they often times ended up being me and it was hard to have them make meaningful decisions in the story because of it. But if i write a male protagonist, i can't properly convey how they would have an attraction to their female counterpart.
There's also the aspect of exposure to decent works in media. I've read a lot of manga in my life. I started out with shoujo because it was expected, but it was all romance and got old quick. I moved on to shounen and tried to find works where there were few if any women because they were invariably going to be sexualized. That of course led me down the path to shounen ai and yaoi, where women were basically non-existent. Fewer women for fanfics to be based off of and more men with (although oftentimes bad/abusive) relationships with other men.
I agree with the person who commented above me that it does boil down to attraction a lot of times, but also generic wish fulfillment and desires. Two people of the same sex are often on closer footing than two people of the opposite sex (what they're allowed to or supposed to do) and can be considered a forbidden love like older stories of nobles falling in love with someone below their status.
I'm going to leave it there since it's become a long reply. I know it's been a week since the original comment post, but if you do end up seeing this or if anyone else wants to chat more about it, I wouldn't mind
@@catelynh1020 this was really insightful, thanks for talking about this!
@@RapidObsessor no problem. I enjoy thinking about this kind of stuff deeply, so it's always a pleasure to be able to talk about these weird topics. I'm also pretty open about it so it never feels like I need to hide my reasoning, either
@@catelynh1020 yea I think I just have a hard time with it because I'm a wlw, and I still prefer reading mlm fanfiction and I can't figure out whether if it's just because it's more available/there's better writing out there, the sexualization aspect, or the opposition to self-insert characters.
Glinda and Elphaba from the Wicked musical simultaneously fit into all these categories and you can’t convince me otherwise
"Was Captain Marvel with Carol Ann Maria"
Me: Wait... that isn't canon?!
I'm about 90% certain it's only not canon because the writers (or maybe Disney higher ups) wanted to gauge the reaction before they committed. So they took it far enough to still JUST have enough room to be able to wriggle out if there was a backlash to the implications.
+
Just wanna say your way of phrasing your analysis is phenomenal. It's like you're speaking analytical poetry.
yeah like she’s just talking about her gay headcanons AND YET makes it into a forty minutes analysis that makes you feel smarter for listening to
Ryan and Chelsea are both gay and they went together so that no one would suspect a thing.
They also kinda remind me of Jesse and James from pokemon
Kelsi?
@@TheSomeawesome yea sorry autocorrect
Okay, but Kirk didn't just go against the upper ups to protect Spock. He stole the bloody Enterprise and *blew it up* to save the vague remnants of Spock's consciousness. Like, he didn't know Spock had a body they could shove his consciousness back into. So, that's a lot to unpack.
Exactly!! 👏🏾👏🏾
I'm actually here from the gay merecats 😭
meerkats*
you are the chosen one
@@HeyRowanEllis that video killed me from start to end I loved it!!!
Also... Neil and Todd from Dead Poets Society. Like it was so obvious and it would make the whole storyline so much better!
Omg yes!! I I was so confused and disappointed when the movie didn't do that!
Omg PLEEEEEASE 😭
I was here just to say that!!!
This so much. I remember back in school, my class spent some time on that movie and got to do a group project where we, as a class, had to roleplay a scenario in which Mr Keating got put on trial for the events of the movie and me and my friends got tasked with preparing Todd's witness statement. Did the witness statement end with me as Todd having a breakdown and blurting out that Todd was in love with Neil? Yes, yes it did. The movie might not have made it gay, but we did (and my teacher was in full support of it, shoutout to you, Ms Heath)
"People who feel different from the rest of the population" It's ok, you can say X-Men. We can talk about Charles Xavier & Erik Lehnsherr
"That's gay my dudes" and "That's gay baby" are great catchphrases
Okay but Legolas and Gimli. That didn’t really come out much in the films, but in the books there was the classic “enemies to friends to lovers” thing, never leave each other’s side, Legolas resisting the sea longing (partially) to stay with Gimli, and Legolas taking Gimli with him to Valinor. But I love the complex relationship between Sam and Frodo too
"i love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, but i love him, wheter or no"
Saying that while watching your homie sleep and thinking about how beautiful he is... No homo tho.
@@justsomedudete3320 You... you got me there haha
@@justsomedudete3320 LITERALLY! And I get so much shit in this godforsaken fandom for even suggesting that they might have been in love...
@@baguettegott3409 the Tolkien Fandom has 2 sides. One of them is just people liking the thing, and the other are the ones screaming about a black man being on the cast of the Amazon series
@@justsomedudete3320 True. There's a really fun side (and as usual it is the gay side :D) of people who adore Tolkien's world and his writing and who are just having a good time being nerds.
And then there's the racists, the super religious people, and the alt-right people who like it because of the viking-aesthetic, because of some blood-and-soil vibe they read into it.
I really hope they make the amazon series gay lol. Because, like, those people are gonna hate it either way because it has people of color in it, so why not make it more fun for the rest of us? :D
I never noticed/remembered Janice dating a guy at the end so I always just assumed she was gay. This was a SHOCK
I really appreciate you adding singing in the rain! I feel like polyamory gets set aside in these convos and it's nice to get some attention on polyam couples too
Important to acknowledge Ian Mckellen said he specifically gave sam and Frodo's actors advice that would make the way they played them more gay. Ian Mckellen was doing the Gay Agenda on the set of lotr
Reading Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter. Maybe you'll enjoy it. 😉
Ian McKellen being iconic as always
@Altema Fnfjfkfkfk yeah okay buddy. I'll tell all the serial muderers and rapists they're off the hook bc Altema said actually polyamory is the worst thing you can do.
Because everybody absolutely definitely cares what you alone think about morality. What would we do without your righteous guidance lmao
@Altema How is it immoral if everyone's on the same page?
Me, watching Singing in the Rain: they were roommates
Me, watching this video: *oh my gosh they were ROOMMATES*
You seriously have opened my eyes to one of my favorite films 😂
dead poets society, anyone? neil and todd were DEFINITELY in love, even the actor who played charlie said they probably were and that the other dead poets wouldn’t be surprised by it
I literally pointed them out to my brothers and they were so pissed "We get it, you're gay, now stop ruining our movies" the gay subtext was there, the yearning was there, and the Latin dude and Nuanda definitely had something going on