Matt, in Florida we have a lot of homes along the coast that have the first story made of masonary block wall and the upper floors stick frame. I'm preparing to build one like that. Addressing Belinda's point about the insulation value of R22 masonary block wall versus stick frame with Rockwool or spray foam insulation, I would love to see a video from you that shows how you would insulate a build like that, including the sealing of the envelope where the block meets the stick frame. I've seen your videos on sealing at the foundation, but not any where the "join" is up at the second floor.
@@mariagdesjardin1000 There is a guy in the UK...I'll have to get back to you with his name. He does a great job of explaining moisture and problems with insulation. Rather than being focused on one product, he is talking about the Insulate England movement who are gluing themselves to streets. (...this whole insulation business is a heated debate). (Yup..I did that on purpose) His video finally hit home with me. He basically said that we breath hot moisture and that moisture will "seek" out and find a cold surface. Now I add that to Balinda Carr's videos...couple them with a radiant barrier video...throw in that Joe guy..and it is beginning to make sense. Beginning only means I'm back to chasing the rabbit.
yep! I don't always agree with her conclusions but she gives enough information that I can draw accurate conclusions with the information available. it is refreshing to see information presented in a way that has no agenda in itself. X may be a poor process for Y but it could be a good idea for Z and if the information is focused entirely on Y you may never be able to apply the information on Z
Air movement is a big problem, Holmes helped me recognize that. So a few years ago my SO and I took apart the walls of the small sun room at her house, mainly to switch from panelling to drywall. With the walls open we saw lots of evidence of air leaks within the wall. So I put silicone sealant at all the joins between the siding and the studs, all for sides in each cavity, then put back the oribinal fiberglass insulation. Holy smokes, what a difference that made! I don't have empirical data, but now that room is quite easy to heat in winter and cool in summer. That's been a big lesson for me, and like TheBuildShow talks about all the time, stop air movement from inside to outside, or outside to inside, this makes a massive difference. So your point about spray foam is on-point! But if joins are sealed fiberglass, rockwool, etc. will perform far better than they do now. Several years ago the Washington Post had a story about a house built for energy efficiency, and every join, even between suds and plates, were first given a bead of silicone, so all air penetration was stopped. Air leaks steal energy!
Yes, R value is a completely moot point if you have large air leaks. It would be like saying why is my house so cold in the winter with my R30 insulation, and all your windows are open. Of course, the many small air leaks aren't as visible as an open window, but can sure add up to too much air transfer.
The biggest issue with this is building codes recognizing the difference. Blower door tests, and other things are only now working the way into building codes. Building performance is a system made up of parts and understanding the sum of the parts is as important as understanding the how one part compared to another in a test
@@mk1stfun fact not all homes are built outside? Check out some awesome prefabrication homes assembled onsite (like IKEA) or some homes made top to bottom in factory's.
I haven’t been on the industry too long but I believe there’s been a big push in the last few years to move towards performance based. That being said, it’s a lot easier to test if things like an air barrier works rather than if insulation is working 100%
@@davidprins9401 code does this. Issue is the enforcement is lacking on all fronts. Many of the "professionals" who are hired realize that failing folks is the fastest path to an empty wallet. Integrity is the hardest thing to find and the most valuable for anyone who cares...
@@BelindaCarr okay, you're going to have to excuse my crazy writing to work around the amount of blocks that YT have put in place to prevent me from telling you about a certain video.....
This has to be one of the most though out and accurate assessments of r value and energy ratings in general I’ve ever heard or seen and I’ve been a carpenter and general contractor most of my life. It’s just explained so well
@@OneWildTurkey I'd have to go through nearly seven minutes of it, point by point. Just don't hang your hat on it. You'll understand why later. You COULD read my other comments about this video, though; they'd give you a running start.
I’m here to say I’ve noticed you’ve been uploading more frequently and some of your recent videos have been more personal and ever since I’m subscribed your subscriber count has grown 10-fold. I just wanted to remind you’re doing great and that I love your constructive arguments. Thank you for the work you’re doing!
This video was so helpful, the breakdown was thorough without being overcomplicated. I am doing research and I have no construction background or training so these videos like these are extremely helpful without being too lengthy.
I’m very appreciative of this video!! I own a duct cleaning business in Virginia, and we commonly refer spray foam insulation to our clients that have HVAC systems located in attics and crawl spaces. Your video answered so many questions I had about the performance of insulation under realistic non-lab conditions - particularly in our humid Southeastern US climate!! Ill be sure to save and share your video with all of my future clients that I recommend spray foam insulation for in their homes!
Please do not recommend spray foam unless the roof structure is in prefect condition. As soon as the roof needs replacing (which due to its weather and the insulations lack of) which will be before the spray, it will cost upwards of 1000s more to reace because of then spray. The roofs can be patch or areas replaced but once its sprayed its a case of rip the whole thing up or get used to the leaks. This must be thought of before recommending spray
Just found your channel and I am so very impressed! We are in the process of having a Class B RV built (supply chain issues notwithstanding!), and have had to research, amongst other things, toilets, batteries, building systems, and insulation/R-value. You hit everything it took me months to figure out! Wish I had found your channel sooner! Be seeing you!
Great video, very informative. Very important point re wind hitting the walls of the house and impact on insulative performance. We recently swapped out fiberglass in walls and ceiling with open cell spray foam in a room with three exterior walls...huge difference in comfort and draft reduction. Might be similar to R13, but the sealing qualities of spray foam really made a difference.
Have watched 2 of your videos now. Your approaches to problems are both insightful and surprizingly comprehensive. Very impressive young woman you are Belinda. God bless
I like that you use the word performance and take us to a different level of expectation for savings of energy. There is also a relatively new product in the stud feature and it is insulated studs that more or less eliminate the thermal transfer of a standard wall. The studs have a foam core component to achieve this.
Your channel is so good! Each topic is condensed into a concise, technical, yet digestible presentation. The information is dense - no fluff. Please keep it up!
Hard to imagine a test that can take into account all of the properties an insulation can affect. People need to educate themselves about which insulation will do a better job for the situation they have. Thank you for the help with the education!
@Nooneinparticular987 _If_ you have shingles on a cathedral roof.... Certainly we should be using open cell in a situation like that. But if you're making the added investment, you should probably make the whole roof system more long term than shingles, by using metal pans or a monolithic membrane like TPO. We incorporate things like strain gauges and electron monitoring in public works. It's kind of crazy we don't have an OBD suite for our housing that goes beyond measuring temperature and energy consumption.
@Nooneinparticular987 And this is an example of exactly how screwed the building codes are here. A) Unfortunately we are gluttonous here and there is very little old growth or quality lumber left. Red cedar roof shingles curl and split like potato chips even when properly installed over skip sheathing*. Codes dictate vapor retardant house wraps, where you must tape all seams even when properly 'shingled', but then you go put a zillion holes in it when applying shingle siding. Spun bonded olefin (Tyvek) saponifies in the presence of turpenes and tannic acid. Houses with cedar siding rot the OSB right out from under the paper because the soap created destroys bulk water's surface tension and it goes right inside. I _never_ saw this with asphalt felt paper, even on houses 100 years old. But I can't use it by code any more... I mentioned above that housing stock should be turned over. 99.9% of us don't live in castles. And probably less than 1% of American homes have any architectural relevance. Yet, here in New Cannan I see homes by the Harvard Five slated for demolition simply because of the nice lot, and people with money want modern features. This nations oldest buildings (Spanish Colonial, in St Augustine, FL) are probably best forgotten as a symbol of genocide.
Love this channel. Your information is spot on, keep the videos coming. On an other channel, one that is strictly about spray foam insulation they talked about the misnomers of R value. It was a recap of everything you just stated here. They also talked about a new testing standard, a Real World Value. One that takes into consideration things like weather, how the insulation was installed, air gaps and voids and opening in the structure, no building is completely sealed off from the environment. And the effect moisture and settling has on insulation. One of the first things about the real world test, is fiber type insulation is lower than its rating even before it is installed. The worst of the fiber type is blown insulation, compaction is the biggest problem. But even if fiberglass insulation is installed currently say an R20, it’s real world rating is something more like R17 before it’s even installed. What the study found over a set of averages it can be as low as R8 do to errors in structure and how it was installed. Blown in insulation on horizontal surfaces likes attics, do even worse. And with in 3 years do to settling, can lose half of there original R value. Contrast that with spray foam, what you had at installation is what you will get. Provide it was installed by a trained professional, spray foam is not a DIY product. Also in the way the thermal dynamics works in spray foam, the R value is actually much higher than the R value tests reflect. And there is one thing about spray foam not mentioned here, but spray foam can improve the rigidity of a structure, making walls stronger. From what I’m finding the only problem with spray foam is installation cost. But over the useful lifetime of the structure spray foam is much cheaper, you can recoup the costs of installation within a couple years in energy savings alone. Good video, keep them coming.
This was such a helpful video. Insulation R Values have been so confusing to me. I will be able to use this to help explain to clients why choosing hempcrete is going to make such a huge difference in their energy efficiency.
Hempcrete really needs to be expressed as whole wall value. It has the ability to really stop air infiltration, has some thermal mass and lots of air pockets. So really hit has the best of many different types of insulation. Till more places get access at a decent price it just does not make much sense in the USA at this point. Exterior continuous insulation that is sealed at this point seem to make the most sense for me and seems that codes are pushing it to get to their required amounts.
@@stevepailet8258 Steve you are correct. It acts as a whole wall system and not just a filler if you will. I have struggled to understand how to compare it to other materials and this video just further pointed out to me that just stating an r value does not really describe a materials efficiency in keeping a home warm or cool. The thermal mass of course plays a role. Yes the price is high and probably unattainable for many at this time for the US but trust me there are a group of people working very hard including myself to make it an affordable option here. I'm impressed in your knowledge.
@@kmcroes Since I run a little blog about alternative materials for buildings with 20,000 folks I try to keep up and actually do a massive amount of research
@@kmcroes Everything considered we are in need to work with the concept of thermal mass and the concept of thermal fly wheel. The other half of the discussion really revolves around conservation of energy. Leaky buildings do zero to conserve the energy that was used to get the structure to that which is comfortable to its inhabitants. Emphasis on comfortable. IFC builds along with poured concrete or rammed earth or hempcrete all use the thermal fly wheel effect but also do a great job of air sealing to conserve the energy. To me one can spend a great deal on a house but a poor envelope which I actually call encapsulation of the interior is exactly where real $$$ should be used in buildings. The interesting balancing act is to try to keep those costs down to a low roar.
FYI I've been on the phone for the last twenty minutes with a friend discussing life and so on. At the same time I've been looking at you frozen on this RUclips. It occurs to me that you need to know that I see you as a beautiful, sincere, thoughtful, articulate human being. Thank you! Now, on to your show!
FYI for you a lot of women do not necessarily enjoy having their appearance commented on by random men. Particularly when they've gone above and beyond proving their technical aptitude it can be supper annoying to have the top thing that gets commented on be their appearance. This is of course not always true but it's always like playing compliment roulette with this type of thing. They might take it as a complement and they might despise you. I can't speak for Belinda but most women that I've talked to about this type of thing would not want to hear that some rando has been staring at their image for 20 minutes.
I installed spray foam for years and argued with so many customers about R-value. Salesman would sell 3 inches of closed cell foam in a 3.5" exterior wall. It would clearly say on the paperwork 3"+/-. Some people would complain about some spots only being 2 or 2.5 while other spots were over filled and trimmed not understanding that 2 inches of closed cell is sufficient and far superior than fiberglass for a 2x4 exterior wall. Another job was sold for 7 in of closed cell in a 2x8 framed roof to meet the R49 code which is extreme overkill when spray foam is over 95% efficient at 3 inches. Anything more is a waste. Some people just don't get it. The building codes need to be updated to reflect this. Not all insulations should be in the same category
You will get different results from different people. I'm fussy and would do it myself and try for 2 to 3 inches, more in the edges. That stuff will make a house sturdy and strong spreading the lode evenly through the structure. We have preform concrete with 2 inches of foam inside and out. I'm sure the concrete is 6 and 8 inches. Its the difference between your roof coming off so easily.
@Anna Enjoy paying higher energy costs then. Problems can happen with any insulation type and more times than not often do with standard fiberglass batting. Improper installation is the norm anymore. All it takes is a small air gap where the batting isn't tight to the stud and there goes your R value. Why do you think they build freezers and fridges with foam insulation and not fiberglass or wool? Its far superior.
@@battlebob7241 ... the key here is they do foam NOW but years ago it was fiberglass for almost everything. Some of that is air infiltration but it originally started out as a quicker / cleaner manufacturing process with less waste.
@Anna Watch the video (3:25 time) instead of just coming here to comment. She states that houses using foam use half the energy to heat and cool. Don’t go for the lowball quote from ‘Clem’s Insulatin’ Company’ and you shouldn’t have any problems.
I woke up to go pee,, decided to watch one of your videos, and have just watched 6 of your videos from 3am to 5am, instead of sleeping. Your videos are that great. I just changed my camper insulation that was happening next week, all thanks to you. I have liked all of your videos and subscribed. Thank you Miss. You
I like when she was testing sheep-wool insulation batts and commented how it left hairs everywhere -- as she brushed wool hairs from the front of.her sweater with a frown. Real life, man.
It's nearly impossible to have a rating system that covers all situations. But the U.S. could do *far* better than we have. More realistic testing, more comprehensive numbers, pushing the manufacturers of 'legacy' products to innovate. Building lags behind because of inertia in the industry, and how codes are written and implemented. This is a big nation with every climate/geology available. Yet people want a "universal building code" Great! Let's keep sticking absurd conditions on an already complex and convoluted mess. That's got to be better than common sense or personal responsibility, right?
This is the BEST video I have seen on the topic. Way better than some contractor with a RUclips… I love contractors and I love their videos, but this is very in depth.
I just happened to trip over your videos today and have been excited by you researching and answering soooo many of the questions that I've had about so many of these building construction/DYI issues that get all of this positive press hype while never revealing the downsides. Thank you so much Belinda, I've subscribed and wait for your next critical and comparison analyses, we definitely need you to help us make those logical decisions in creating a home worth living in and the scrutiny truly necessary for a more sustainable future for mankind!
This is a great overview. As a retired carpenter I have seen the good and bad. Beware plastic. I have seen and am suffering from insect destruction of spray foam. In old age, it can shrink back from the edges. Fiberglass when wetted will remain that way for a very long time. One house I renovated had its fiberglass destroyed by squirrels and mice. Any material can work but none are perfect. I like less wood in the walls, 2x6 on 24" centres with rockwool and fanatical attention to airleaks. My favourite concrete form is Durasol with rockwool preinstalled in the blocks.
I always tell people that this is true about everything, "There's a pro and con to everything. Nothing is ABSOLUTELY perfect. You decide which one is the better of two evils . So many builders talk like what they say is 100% Gold.
Bidal, sorry, but you're wrong. Elected politicians in DC have told us the wind and solar are perfect. No defects. No tradeoffs, no pro and cons. Just pure perfection.
Well, if you exclude doing nothing, you can have a thing that is better than another one in all relevant properties, in which case it is pretty unambiguous which one is the better one.
I agree, in construction where I once was... people talk exactly like you say... like they know everything and what they say is gold and anything else used is dog crap. This is why I work for myself and only work with people who are not a-holes. I got out of it because the market here is crap
I have been researching and working with insulation for a long time. I totally agree with that the fact that the R Value of different material does not standardise the overall effectiveness in the energy conservation. However big companies are realising these things because of which they are changing the construction practices such as thermal wraps around the insulation to avoid any air movement. This video explains most of my research in just under 6 minutes. But deep down i know it took lots of work and effort to conclude all this in such short and simple video. Kudos!. I do write articles. I would like to take your consent to cite this video in my article. Thanks
Hey Belinda can you talk more about insulation and ways to build for a hot climate like texas etc.. there is almost non-information about this topic anywhere, and nowadays it seems like summer months are being more unpleasant to people than winter. oh and I so wanna see those RUclipsr who always talk about R-value face right now
It’s definitely time for real world insulation values. I remember visiting fortress Louisberg in Nova Scotia Canada. The stone walls were 3 feet thick in many places. Apparently it was fairly warm in winter and cool in summer due to the thermal mass. Lots of fireplaces for heat and cooking. Also ICF builds seem to use less energy than predicted possibly due to better seal and thermal mass. Foil covered foam also seems to be more efficient too, the claim being reflected heat both directions.
Good information. 10 years ago, I pulled all fiberglass out of our 1800 sq ft home, sprayed in closed cell... full 3.5 inches. Amazing difference in the comfort throughout house and utility bills. Saved a significant amount by spraying myself. Pulled fiberglass out of attic and installed 24 in of cellulose. Super easy to cool and heat. Works well in hot or cold climates. No issues in 112 f nor -20 f. No regrets whatsoever.
Thanks for making this video! I've had this conversation with clients so many times although I didn't have all of the details that you present here. I've worked on a lot of old homes with fiberglass insulation where cold air can be felt flowing in wherever there's an electrical outlet or other wall penitration. The insulation isn't doing a lot for you if cold air from outside can just flow right through it. Most people think that the r-value is a direct representation of how well whatever insulation they're looking at will stop thermal transfer when installed in their home and it's just not true as you present so clearly here. Do happen to know what the performance difference between fiberglass and denim insulation of the same r-value is? It seems to me that denim is much better at reducing air transfer.
We've got an issue with that in our house right now. Fancy double hung, double paned windows that I need to putty every year. The drafts are not fun and really chill the room they're in.
What a great channel. I logged in just to comment like and subscribe because Belinda didn't ask me to (until the very end) but instead went straight to the point. Wow.
I work in heat pumps and would love your video series on our stuff. A lot of the field vs lab testing has very similar issues. I have heard many manufacturers say ‘oh well, you know....’
How do you expect the lab to replicate field conditions, when every field is different? the rating system must set a standard for all the variables, so when two different labs, persons, countries, etc try to rate a piece of equipment, they come up with a result that we can use and compare. Otherwise, each manufacturer will set the best conditions that fits its design.
@@alneg6234 fair point, yet field and lab values are so divergent as to be meaningless. The answer seems to be to live with mainly pointless tests and never mention it. Mean while no one talks about why buildings don't actually perform or builders don't innovate. There are deep and fundamental problems in the entire sector.
I am finishing a basement with a product called insofast on the exterior concrete walls. They are really cool. They are interlocking foam panels with built-in plastic studs raceways and moisture channels. They adhere to the wall with construction adhesive. It is only rated at 10.5 R value, but the information on the site mentions that it has effectiveness of R-15 (and I suspect probably better) than a normal framed wall. This video confirms what I suspected. That the foam is a more dense insulator and the integrated studs eliminated the breaks that a normal framed wall created in the insulation. I am very happy with the finish product. The only drawback is getting electrical and other wiring into the wall through the raceways. It is not that bad, but definitely more hassle than a normal framed wall; but worth it. Great video!
One inch of fiberglass has an R value of about 3.3. I assumed she had used the metric system when she said 35, but if you divide 35 by 5 you get 7 so that assumption was wrong too. I think she just misspoke the number.
Thank you for another educational video! Appreciate listening to someone who is well educated on a subject AND is not trying to sell a particular product.
Good video. Thank you for that excellent explanation. Is there a particular spray foam you would recommend for domestic use, in terms of open cell/ closed cell, toxic propellant gases, fire resistance, Grenfell towers, etc.
I am an HVAC contractor and a Building Performance Institute Building Analyst, she is exactly right about fiberglass insulation not performing as advertised. Buildings must be air sealed first, then insulated second. Sprayed foam has the potential to be many times better than other forms of insulation, but it must be applied in layers with adequate time given for curing between layers. See the videos about the homes where the foam application was rushed and off gassing made the buildings uninhabitable to the point they had to be demolished.
Yes, you have to set all variables equal in order to compare products. No one is trying to scam the consumer, most of these agencies are governmental or totally independent from he manufacturers.
Thank you so much for your educational and thorough research on these important subjects. It is so helpful and practical to all of us. ❤ I am so happy I found your channel. Thank you for doing this necessary work and sharing it with us. Lots of gratitude to you dear Belinda
Up here in Wisconsin builders almost always use blown fiberglass in the attics - mainly because it's cheaper. When it gets really cold (as it is today) air moving in/out of the soffits can get down into these fluffy fibers, seriously degrading it's effectiveness. Plus it's so light that it doesn't "fit" around the trusses/pipes/framing etc, leaving big voids underneath - easily seen with an infra red camera. I always advise clients to choose cellulose as it performs much better when you really need it to.
Another great video. To those who comment that they now understand R-value and/or the value of R-Value, it’s just one of several factors to consider. As Belinda notes, air-movement is a critical consideration. And when controlling air-movement we have to consider water vapor. Fact is, buildings are very, very, complex. Code writers need to consider a complex variety of interacting systems for a wide range of climates. I look forward to the time when Belinda needs to attach a lengthy series of her own links to each video!
6"-cob wall (adobe) has like a 3-day fire wall rating. That is, how long it takes a fire on one side of the wall to have an affect on the opposite side. Also, has an R-value of r-50- which is commercial-grade.
@@juzoli have you heard of the wildfires..?no need to be that thick- except to support itself as its being constructed. This stuff hardens as it's heated- still wouldnt wanna find out for myself. It's just how well cob works..clay, silt, and straw is abundant. --look at thatch roofs in the rainy english countryside that have lasted for 4-500 yrs, just by replacing the ridge-cap however often. The apocalypse may be a change, but i dont believe it to be the end (:::
Lots of great information here, it helped me a ton making a decision on the house I am living in. It was built in 1911 with ZERO insulation and not very well sealed at all now. In fact on a windy day I can open a window and feel air blowing through... Anyway I want to do my best to seal things up as well as insulate things and the best thing I could come up with that will also protect the house even better is to use both fiberglass insulation batts and XPS foamboards. The walls are currently 2X4's but I have been furring them out with 2X2's so I have something closer to a 2X6. I am sealing the perimeter 2X2's as well as all 2X2's over the rough openings with silicone. Then I am putting in the fiberglass insulation and finally laying a bead of silicone around the perimeter and penetration boards and installing 2 inch thing XPS foam which are held in place with screws. Each sheet of XPS is also being sealed to the next sheet and eventually I will tape all the seams. This is all being done from the outside of the house as the interior walls are in pretty good condition, it involves pulling a ton of nails to remove the siding nicely so I can put it back up till I can deal with replacing it but it's just going to be held on with a couple screws till then. Doing this all on a dirt cheap budget compared to most people but when I am done I will literally have the best insulated house in town. Eventually going to do batt insulation in the floor joists which are over a crawlspace and then applying foamboard in a similar fashion. The roof is a different story since I have 2X4 vaulted ceilings with very little attic space but I am thinking I can leave an air gap of about an inch between some foamboard and the roof sheathing by slipping in a piece of R10 XPS and then cap that all off with a full sheet of R10 XPS foam shrinking the ceiling height a couple inches. That should allow enough airflow for ventilation but help insulate it pretty well but I don't want to shrink the room more than that. I will also eventually be replacing all the windows as they just threw aluminum windows into the old window frames and did nothing with the rough openings and when that is done I will be sealing things up really well but that is a project down the road. Honestly I am seriously thinking about just going old school and building them but with a modern touch. The walls will be just about 9 inches thick with the lath and plaster inside and the walls extended so I have thought about building them out of wood and using 2X3's for the windows themselves and running 3 panes of glass. I refuse to use aluminum windows and hate the thought of vinyl windows after seeing all the siding that is falling apart after a couple years. Maybe wood isn't as good as vinyl but it's a lot better than aluminum windows for thermal bridging. Thanks for the great info though.
Such kind, polite, and thoughtful videos!! I love the content and delivery. You have the diplomatic gift to criticize a product/procedure and then provide next steps for improvement.
I am a geothermal HVAC contractor in TX and I use spray foam insulation encapsulation on my projects. I typically can reduce the cooling tonnage required by half with foam insulation versus blown in and batts. We just experienced record breaking cold here. Not one of my foam insulation customers had any issues with frozen pipes but the blown in fiberglass or cellulose people had multiple frozen and burst water pipes. I can't understand why foam insulation is not required on all new construction. The install cost is a little higher but the long term benefit is well worth the extra front end cost. The resulting energy savings and comfort levels in summer are my main targets for using spray foam but they are great for those nasty cold days as well. I love you channel please keep up the good work.
SInce I understand most of the words you are speaking, I always feel super smart after watching! Then a shiny thumbnail distracts me and I click the video of a cat watching another cat watching birds LOL 😍 your channel!
Dear Ms. Carr: I am really happy I found you. I have owned a home or two and never knew all this about R values. Thank you for explaining the pit falls. This is what a professional like you should be talking about. >>I agree that there should be a standard that is easy to understand. Perhaps a table giving upper, mediums, and lower conditions on the product for the laymen would help in selection of a product. Manufacturers should simply work their hardest to sell the best. Right? With respect, NHG
@@lukewarm2075 hahaha....yes , and a proven one at that.....it immediately takes on the temp of your skin and at least makes the inconvenient times a little more bearable in the cold
The steady state limitation of the R value is an important insight. As a formerly HVAC-adjacent worker, I can appreciate the distinction between insulation for static thermal gradients (e.g. hot water tanks and refrigerators) and for dynamic thermal gradients (e.g. siding and roofing). I wonder if it would make sense to treat insulation as a "low pass filter" for temperature variations, with a separate "cutoff frequency" rating.
You are pointing out the weakness of the current R value system! Thank you!! We need the "big" picture view of all "truth factors"! It is truly confusing as you have a rating system that is blind to some factors. Along with big business advertising promoting long standing (but profitable) poor products! Atomized air seal along with closed cell spray foam seem to be very promising. But horribly expensive.....there needs to be alot more competition!! just jim
I am enjoying your videos on insulation. I live in a 50+ year old hose with 2x4 exterior walls. We had blown in insulation put in the attic about 10 years ago, but the basement has 1/3 exposed foundation and very little fiberglass insulation in the walls. There is no insulation between the garage and the bedrooms above. I had thought blow in foam insulation would be an option for the garage ceiling, but did not realize the the ceiling would have to come down. I have also seen a couple consumer reports type news programs on incorrect installation and nightmares for the home owners. It is going to be a big project.
As some one mentioned, there is now an air tightness test. I am sure as time goes on, more test will be used to take into account what mother nature actually does.
Just like anything - even air tightness can become problematic. A friend of mine recently renovated an old country house in Texas. They took it back to the studs, super-insulated it, air tight, etc. It performed great - AC usage was very low. Then the winter came. Every time he tried to have a fire in his fire place it would not stay lit. He had to crack a window to allow air into the room to allow the fire to burn. Modifications to the fire place eventually solved this. My point is that even a good feature like air tightness can create other, unforeseen issues. The more we do - the more we learn.
@@jimnotman6902 absolutely right. I found it fascinating that air tight houses needed calculated conditioned air inlets. A fireplace would truly complicate the issue.
I can't disagree that the test may be lacking. However, I also did not hear of a proposed solution to the issue so far. So noting a test has gaps is one thing, but not having a solution to suggest gets us no closer to real answers than the flawed test. So my question to any commenter is, how would you solve the problem of current testing gaps?
@@jeffbeaird747 You must think in black and white and can't comprehend a statement and then make assumptions about @C. Telling a blind person the sky is blue, is a black and white statement, at face value (you are assuming they were always blind and never saw color in the past). A blind person can't see the color of the sky, while we can compare materials based on R value. @C didn't say anything about R value, just about the analogy, from what I saw. R6 foam sheet can be compared to R13 sheet, fiberglass to fiberglass, etc. One product can be compared to another, if you understand the nuances. Belinda said a home with R12 foam uses half the energy of a home with R20 fiberglass. If we had data on R20 foam, then it could be even better compared. A more accurate analogy would have been that it is like asking a person with nearsightedness to read a street sign without their glasses. They can see there is a sign, might see enough to make out a name or know it doesn't match the street they are looking for, but they can't easily identify that street without more work (getting closer). We know a lot about various insulations and can compare them, but we can't easily identify what value they have compared to other types. Gray vs. black and white.
The problem isn’t R value testing but the simplistic way some people may use R values. Clearly any insulation that is compromised by thermal bridging, moisture, air infiltration, compression or other factors will not deliver the R value it is rated for. This is just common sense, not some big secret. Further other factors such as potential chemical off-gassing by spray foam resulting from an incorrect mix are not discussed. Not a fan.
Love the discussion, I have always thought there was something missing in the R value calculation. Certain products do have a higher ability to resist the flow of heat, yet don’t have a higher R value than those products the don’t resist the flow as well. I have studied the Passive House method of insulating and creating an air tight method of home building, yet allowing for breathability outwards and resisting moisture permiablity inwards. Fascinating stuff
Expanding foam in an attic has a major downside. Once installed, it's difficult to remove. That is one reason I went with 16-inches of blown-in cellulose in my attic covered by attic foil. If I need to get to the wiring, I can simply kick the cellulose aside. Cellulose also has excellent fire and insect prevention abilities. The one downside is it doesn't like getting wet. Then it reverts to being paper fiber.
There are definitely a few problems with the issues you raise. You bring up, more than once, that sprayfoam creates an air tight seal, and say that other insulators do not. This is true, but is a pretty deceptive way to present information. Other insulations get vapour barriers installed, drywall prevents air movement, as does the sheathing on a house, the house wrap, etc. Moving one part of the system, from batt+poly to sprayfoam, doesn't negate there being *a system* - and it's why, when considering sprayfoam, the type of cell has to be considered too. All that, though, is moot, because you're conflating how the wall system (with air and vapour barrier) works, with r-value. R-value has nothing to do with most of the points you try to bring up against it. Whether or not the insulation has a built in vapour barrier has no effect on the r-value, if you are comparing that *system* against one where a vapour barrier is installed as well. You like to say how rigid foam blocks air better, but it's actually *worse*, especially in any application other than 100% continuous. If you tried to put rigid foam between studs, you'll never get a seal. What you do, at the end especially, is compare more elements of a system, against fewer elements of a system. And that's just misleading. And then I had to go read that "study" you linked to... page 5 they "tested" 6 inches of loose fill attic at -18f. Who, anywhere, insulates to only 6" in an attic, especially anywhere that gets down to -27c or lower? All their 'sources' are anecdotal. This is not "a study", this is an 11 page rant, and a particularly poor one. Attic convection loops? Because you didn't build the system properly with venting, maybe. But you have way worse problems if you do that.
@@elwinvanwees8516 I think Matt does a good job trying to advance building and promoting fairly innovative products that are generally good quality. I will say, I get an uneasy feeling for some reason with the heavy use of spray foam though. Not sure why. I just wonder if in 30 years we will regret it's use.
@@JimYeats Yeah, I'm not a fan of it as well. I've heard in some of the southern states like Florida, builders have stopped using it.. because of a fear of offgassing, that and termites seem to like to tunnel through it.
i am based in south Africa and have been in the insulation field for 7 or 8 years and have worked with a very wide range of materials, here in SA we mostly use Aerolite glass fibre (Also known as Think Pink), Polyester Fibre from recycled PET Bottles and then the Cellulose Fibre, which has been my main material used but these days the manufacturers struggle to get newspaper for it. We have great potential for spray foam, however there are not many manufacturers of it locally, so the few guys who do install spray foam insulation import it with highly specialized equipment which makes it too expensive for some of the projects it could be used for. thank you for the great videos
Reminds me of the Thompson submachinegun when it was first created and patented to use the Blish-lock principle (Metals having different coefficients of friction at high pressure than low pressure.) which lead to a brass locking wedge being placed into the gun to delay the gun from opening until at a safe pressure. Years later it turned out that brass locking wedge was an unnecessary piece and was dropped by the time World War 2 came around.
@@peepsbates ..fascinating! Someone should compile a book of nonsense accepted as "fact" from various patent offices. While this will likely never be done, I would buy a copy.
You share so much information. Thank you. Lots of food for thought. And I like how you give non-bias comparison. You’re not selling anything, which I like
@Kal Halson So, the USSR, China, Japan and India aren't countries??? AFAIK only _one_ country has landed man on the moon, but let's not let facts get in the way of your stupidity.
Very good explanation of the subject. I also agree that it is very important to make sure that you do not only pay attention to the material but also to things like how air tight the insulation is. Here in Germany it is normal to make a test where they install a blower fan instead of the front door. Then a measurement is done how much air flow is required to create certain pressure in the house. If the value it to high they try to find leaks. This is sometimes more important than the material.
Air tightness testing in new construction and renovation is definitely key, and it's starting to make its way into building codes (though not, sadly, where I live in Ontario). I think that air tightness, in conjunction with R value, is fairly useful. I would love to see a metric that measures loss in performance over time of each product. We definitely in Ontario have a better understanding of effective R value of total assemblies, vs just R value of materials, than we used to. We typically use closed cell spray foam in our builds. It's great, as you've said, but I worry that the houses will be impossible to remodel decades down the line since the stuff is pretty much impossible to remove... certainly without cutting wires or pipes embedded in the wall. Great video, thank you!
Good explanation. I always try to explain to people that the R-value of the insulation installed IN the wall (or attic) does not = the R-value OF the wall. Your video does that very well.
I got hooked watching and listening to her detailed look at R-Values and other building products. I've been in the industry of designing homes for just over 35 years and I've seen energy code regulations get more and more strict. Often forcing us to us very specific systems, but Belinda has peeled back an old dusty curtain and shined a light on so many of the flawed thinking and approaches to reducing the energy we use on and in our homes. She is right, we don't ever really look at that energy difference AFTER the homes are built. The main difference between looking at building as a total SYSTEM versus the more common code approach of COMPONENTS. If Boeing built airplanes using a component approach, planes would be falling out of the sky every day! Thank you for shaking these trees :-)
I just finished installing 3 inches of spray foam. I can no longer hear the traffic noise from the freeway 100 yards away from my home. This is a renovation project and my neighbors have been curious so I invited them in. They are stunned that the noise from the freeway is barely detectable. One lady said "NO WAY!" but she liked the noise reduction. Spray foam is more expensive, but the list of benefits (eliminates vapor penetration, more rigid wall structure, mold mildew and microbial resistance, noise reduction to mention a few). I wondered what was meant by "class A fire rated" too so I took a blow torch to a scrap piece out side the home . It charred after a while but did not ignite. Temperature and absence of moisture on the sprayed surfaces is critical though. I lost 4 pounds on an 85 degree day wearing the TYVEK suit, mask and gloves.
Thank you for this line of intelligent questioning! As a person with no building background trying to improve the energy efficiency of my commercial space, this is incredibly helpful.
I much prefer to separate the air control layer and thermal control layer as I rarely would want to use them as both. Spray foam can be air tight where it is, if installed properly, and that is a big if, I have seen many failures. But it wouldn’t be between studs or other connections and therefore would be a discontinuous air control layer. I agree with your thoughts on other topics, but also believe Rvalue should be tested at different temperatures as not all insulation’s perform the same in cold weather. Of course that matters most for the insulation facing the cold side as there will be a temperature gradient across it. Also, thermal stability as the insulation ages, some insulation’s don’t fair as well as others. Some foam based insulation products tend to shrink slightly over times too! Then we could get into thermal diffusivity, which also impacts performance. The last critical important factor is climate change and the embodied carbon associated with each type of insulation!! Foams can be very high in embodied carbon and never pay back in terms of operational carbon emissions. This results in natural based insulation’s being the better choice for climate change. That being said, there has been some progress in foams to make them less bad from an embodied carbon standpoint, but still resulting in higher embodied carbon emissions than other options. Nice video!!
Would adding terms proportionally allotting to the formula account for this? such as accounting for R-5 wood studs being about 20% of the area, and for the area of R-2 for double paned windows, etc? And the sealing of openings that allow the movement of air should also be accounted for, but I haven't thought it out long enough to figure how standard wy to do that.
Insulated ten years with fiberglass, cellulose & Rockwood. Foam sprayed on is the most efficient but if there are health concerns ...I'm not informed of them. In any case in a home fire foam is highly toxic and would quickly be a issue. I helped a neighbor who used R - 21 batts in garage walls, applied R - 8 styrofoam sheeting over inside of wall studs. This requires extended length drywall screws and marking studs on the floor with chalk for easier drywall application. Damn garage is warmer than his house with R - 38 blown in the attic over R - 8 sheeting and drywall. All seams were taped with 3m red tape. It's a three car garage with ten foot high walls and insulated car doors. In - 5 with - 15 wind-chill five minutes of a small propane heater will drown you out it's so warm.
I'm late to posting on this topic but I have to say that when these insulation products are installed "Properly" according to the manufacturer then most of these R values are true. BUT, that's the trick, most likely there are deficiencies in proper installation in which the secondary properties should be taken in to account. Awesome video, keep them rolling in 👍.
Great info. I’d like to add the temperature of the material itself can affect its R-value. For example a building with a static interior temperature insulated with polyisocyanurate exposed to exterior temperature near zero degrees F will have a diminished R-value compared to a summer day with outside temperatures near 90 degrees. Also, the concept of “R-per-inch” of thickness for materials is an oversimplification, when tested some materials like polyiso will exhibit increasing “efficiency” as thickness increases. A new comparative (assembly?) standard is much needed.
Straight to the point uncovering a fault within our system of building. There needs to be more people like Belinda scrutinizing the building industry. The R-value should be according to the area and there also should be a greater emphasis on sealing the house at lock up stage. This of course would put a proper requirement on local councils to pass a house only upon the lock up reaching a minimum standard. Ventilation then would also be a priority .
I just wanted to tell you I really like your videos. This is a great channel. Your presentation is always very well done. Thank you for the information you share.
Good summary of what the R-value really means. The code requirements are written to try to standardize and compare apples to apples when talking about different types of insulation and construction methods. Even though foam is a more stable insulation material than fiber, foam in certain environments might be challenging when considering ventilation, condensation, etc. I’m not sure if you have a video on that. But would be nice to see a short summary on that. Of cause the best system is a an air tight shell with a controlled ventilation system, probably mechanical. But it needs to be maintained. So it’s a balancing act between natural breathing structure, insulation, and summer / winter cycle.
As Professional Engineer, who has been involved in manufacturing (and heat testing) for 50 years in various industries , directly related to R-values, I can attest that everything this lady says is absolutely correct! If I were build a new house today, I would lean toward the spray foam, as it best gives you the stated R-value, and helps to seal the wall. However, the cost would need to be competitive. If you have “batt” insulation installed, you want to totally inspect the installation of the batts, before the interior vapour barrier is installed!
I like when real engineering gets applied to things. Heat transfer is really quite simple (as explained here) and it's amazing how much better of a system you can make when you take advantage of it. My new house is going to be structurally insulated panels with solid foam and no joints to allow the heat out. I'm expecting it to be very cheap to heat the house and even the attached garage. To take it a step further, I plan on reducing the total surface area on the house and putting casement windows that are much better than double hungs windows.
Great video. Have you read research from Lawrence Livermore National Lab showing that poor installation combined with convective currents in stud cavities reduce R value considerably? Most worrisome is the fact that as temps decline the problem gets worse.
Belinda, Excellent summary video. I too agree the R-value scoring system doesn't reflect reality. It should be abandoned except as a single component of a more realistic "Equivalent R-value" or "Total R-value." For example an ICF wall may have only R-28 value due to its 2.5" of closed-cell foam on the inside & outside... however concrete is a thermal conductor & if it's 100°F outside & the basement foundation wall footings are 10' below the ground level bathed in cool earth going down 10' ... that concrete part of the assembly certainly Is Resistant the above grade 100°F Heat Transfer by way of the conductive heat transfer from the wall above grade into the below grade cool wall. The Assembly does resistant heat transfer ... though differently even throughout the day. Cheers, Eric
@@BelindaCarr now you got me thinking about home improvement, should I go with a metal garage shed ? Or just build my own with concrete blocks , I feel like if I do it myself will be saving a bit of money and make it with better quality
I'm very glad that you explained how homes are leaky and simply going by R-value alone isn't going to paint the whole picture for an insulation application. I've always known that Urethane foam is the way to go because it helps seal up the cracks/gaps. And because of this, we should consider air quality in a home when it is used. People should invest into an ERV so that outside air can be moved inside and inside air outside using a heat exchanger to help prevent thermal losses.
FANTASTIC VIDEO! Well said. This is going to be required watching for all my young builders. (but old guys like me need a refresher too!)
Love seeing my favorite RUclips creators on each others videos. Doing a re-insulation in New Braunfels, wish me luck!
Matt, in Florida we have a lot of homes along the coast that have the first story made of masonary block wall and the upper floors stick frame. I'm preparing to build one like that. Addressing Belinda's point about the insulation value of R22 masonary block wall versus stick frame with Rockwool or spray foam insulation, I would love to see a video from you that shows how you would insulate a build like that, including the sealing of the envelope where the block meets the stick frame. I've seen your videos on sealing at the foundation, but not any where the "join" is up at the second floor.
@@jaxphotobuff9252Did you ever get any further charity on this question?
Just jumped down the Belinda Carr rabbit hole, her videos are very informative and much appreciated
I’m back. Again. The algorithm loves her.
@@xiaoka ...yes Al Gorithm sent me here too. I posted a video asking for advice ....RUclips sent me here.
Add me to the list. She just keeps popping up no matter what I'm looking into!
@@mariagdesjardin1000 There is a guy in the UK...I'll have to get back to you with his name. He does a great job of explaining moisture and problems with insulation. Rather than being focused on one product, he is talking about the Insulate England movement who are gluing themselves to streets. (...this whole insulation business is a heated debate).
(Yup..I did that on purpose)
His video finally hit home with me. He basically said that we breath hot moisture and that moisture will "seek" out and find a cold surface.
Now I add that to Balinda Carr's videos...couple them with a radiant barrier video...throw in that Joe guy..and it is beginning to make sense.
Beginning only means I'm back to chasing the rabbit.
@@Dancing_Alone_wRentals Wow, stickier and stickier. Now THAT's a rabbit hole!
Straight to what I wanted to hear. No gimmicks, or clickbait. Liked and subscribed.
Very true. Wish she used her real name.
I agree ... She gives a some very good points to think about
@@AdiGV She has to keep the creepers at bay somehow, lol.
Great info
yep! I don't always agree with her conclusions but she gives enough information that I can draw accurate conclusions with the information available. it is refreshing to see information presented in a way that has no agenda in itself. X may be a poor process for Y but it could be a good idea for Z and if the information is focused entirely on Y you may never be able to apply the information on Z
Air movement is a big problem, Holmes helped me recognize that. So a few years ago my SO and I took apart the walls of the small sun room at her house, mainly to switch from panelling to drywall. With the walls open we saw lots of evidence of air leaks within the wall. So I put silicone sealant at all the joins between the siding and the studs, all for sides in each cavity, then put back the oribinal fiberglass insulation.
Holy smokes, what a difference that made! I don't have empirical data, but now that room is quite easy to heat in winter and cool in summer. That's been a big lesson for me, and like TheBuildShow talks about all the time, stop air movement from inside to outside, or outside to inside, this makes a massive difference. So your point about spray foam is on-point! But if joins are sealed fiberglass, rockwool, etc. will perform far better than they do now.
Several years ago the Washington Post had a story about a house built for energy efficiency, and every join, even between suds and plates, were first given a bead of silicone, so all air penetration was stopped. Air leaks steal energy!
Great advice & info.
Yes, R value is a completely moot point if you have large air leaks. It would be like saying why is my house so cold in the winter with my R30 insulation, and all your windows are open. Of course, the many small air leaks aren't as visible as an open window, but can sure add up to too much air transfer.
The biggest issue with this is building codes recognizing the difference. Blower door tests, and other things are only now working the way into building codes. Building performance is a system made up of parts and understanding the sum of the parts is as important as understanding the how one part compared to another in a test
Right, a house is a complicated product....manufactured outdoors.
@@mk1stfun fact not all homes are built outside? Check out some awesome prefabrication homes assembled onsite (like IKEA) or some homes made top to bottom in factory's.
It would be great if code did that. Especially for new construction. Even when it is code things get missed.
I haven’t been on the industry too long but I believe there’s been a big push in the last few years to move towards performance based. That being said, it’s a lot easier to test if things like an air barrier works rather than if insulation is working 100%
@@davidprins9401 code does this. Issue is the enforcement is lacking on all fronts. Many of the "professionals" who are hired realize that failing folks is the fastest path to an empty wallet. Integrity is the hardest thing to find and the most valuable for anyone who cares...
I have to say you have a sincere, direct, non-hyperbolic style that is very refreshing on youtube
I’m sure this channel is going to take off. Every video is so informative
Thank you! Now, if I could only figure out the mysterious YT algorithm...
@@BelindaCarr Apparently, using polls in the community section is a huge boost.
@@BelindaCarr okay, you're going to have to excuse my crazy writing to work around the amount of blocks that YT have put in place to prevent me from telling you about a certain video.....
@@BelindaCarr Search for the video:
@@BelindaCarr RUclips Community Glitch
I have just discovered Belinda Carr presentations... Clear, concise, facinating, engaging and hghly informative.
Thank you
This has to be one of the most though out and accurate assessments of r value and energy ratings in general I’ve ever heard or seen and I’ve been a carpenter and general contractor most of my life. It’s just explained so well
Problem is... it's full of errors and it's misleading.
@@timhofstetter5654 It'd be nice to know what you're referring to.
@@OneWildTurkey I'd have to go through nearly seven minutes of it, point by point.
Just don't hang your hat on it. You'll understand why later.
You COULD read my other comments about this video, though; they'd give you a running start.
Really solid, I work as a HPC and this is one of the best videos I have seen in a while.
I’m here to say I’ve noticed you’ve been uploading more frequently and some of your recent videos have been more personal and ever since I’m subscribed your subscriber count has grown 10-fold. I just wanted to remind you’re doing great and that I love your constructive arguments. Thank you for the work you’re doing!
Thanks a lot for your support!
This video was so helpful, the breakdown was thorough without being overcomplicated. I am doing research and I have no construction background or training so these videos like these are extremely helpful without being too lengthy.
I’m very appreciative of this video!! I own a duct cleaning business in Virginia, and we commonly refer spray foam insulation to our clients that have HVAC systems located in attics and crawl spaces. Your video answered so many questions I had about the performance of insulation under realistic non-lab conditions - particularly in our humid Southeastern US climate!! Ill be sure to save and share your video with all of my future clients that I recommend spray foam insulation for in their homes!
Please do not recommend spray foam unless the roof structure is in prefect condition. As soon as the roof needs replacing (which due to its weather and the insulations lack of) which will be before the spray, it will cost upwards of 1000s more to reace because of then spray. The roofs can be patch or areas replaced but once its sprayed its a case of rip the whole thing up or get used to the leaks. This must be thought of before recommending spray
Just found your channel and I am so very impressed! We are in the process of having a Class B RV built (supply chain issues notwithstanding!), and have had to research, amongst other things, toilets, batteries, building systems, and insulation/R-value. You hit everything it took me months to figure out! Wish I had found your channel sooner!
Be seeing you!
Great video, very informative. Very important point re wind hitting the walls of the house and impact on insulative performance. We recently swapped out fiberglass in walls and ceiling with open cell spray foam in a room with three exterior walls...huge difference in comfort and draft reduction. Might be similar to R13, but the sealing qualities of spray foam really made a difference.
Have watched 2 of your videos now. Your approaches to problems are both insightful and surprizingly comprehensive. Very impressive young woman you are Belinda. God bless
I like that you use the word performance and take us to a different level of expectation for savings of energy.
There is also a relatively new product in the stud feature and it is insulated studs that more or less eliminate the thermal transfer of a standard wall.
The studs have a foam core component to achieve this.
Your channel is so good!
Each topic is condensed into a concise, technical, yet digestible presentation.
The information is dense - no fluff.
Please keep it up!
Hard to imagine a test that can take into account all of the properties an insulation can affect. People need to educate themselves about which insulation will do a better job for the situation they have. Thank you for the help with the education!
And thank you! For being a voice of reason and intelligence.
I think Belinda does a great job trying to parse complex questions in layman's terms.
@Nooneinparticular987 _If_ you have shingles on a cathedral roof....
Certainly we should be using open cell in a situation like that.
But if you're making the added investment, you should probably make the whole roof system more long term than shingles, by using metal pans or a monolithic membrane like TPO.
We incorporate things like strain gauges and electron monitoring in public works.
It's kind of crazy we don't have an OBD suite for our housing that goes beyond measuring temperature and energy consumption.
She pointed out how insulation values are basically meaningless for the consumer and even builder.
@Nooneinparticular987 And this is an example of exactly how screwed the building codes are here.
A) Unfortunately we are gluttonous here and there is very little old growth or quality lumber left.
Red cedar roof shingles curl and split like potato chips even when properly installed over skip sheathing*.
Codes dictate vapor retardant house wraps, where you must tape all seams even when properly 'shingled', but then you go put a zillion holes in it when applying shingle siding.
Spun bonded olefin (Tyvek) saponifies in the presence of turpenes and tannic acid. Houses with cedar siding rot the OSB right out from under the paper because the soap created destroys bulk water's surface tension and it goes right inside.
I _never_ saw this with asphalt felt paper, even on houses 100 years old.
But I can't use it by code any more...
I mentioned above that housing stock should be turned over.
99.9% of us don't live in castles. And probably less than 1% of American homes have any architectural relevance.
Yet, here in New Cannan I see homes by the Harvard Five slated for demolition simply because of the nice lot, and people with money want modern features.
This nations oldest buildings (Spanish Colonial, in St Augustine, FL) are probably best forgotten as a symbol of genocide.
@Nooneinparticular987 yes a building system needs to be forgiving and at least fool resistant .
Love this channel. Your information is spot on, keep the videos coming. On an other channel, one that is strictly about spray foam insulation they talked about the misnomers of R value. It was a recap of everything you just stated here. They also talked about a new testing standard, a Real World Value. One that takes into consideration things like weather, how the insulation was installed, air gaps and voids and opening in the structure, no building is completely sealed off from the environment. And the effect moisture and settling has on insulation. One of the first things about the real world test, is fiber type insulation is lower than its rating even before it is installed. The worst of the fiber type is blown insulation, compaction is the biggest problem. But even if fiberglass insulation is installed currently say an R20, it’s real world rating is something more like R17 before it’s even installed. What the study found over a set of averages it can be as low as R8 do to errors in structure and how it was installed. Blown in insulation on horizontal surfaces likes attics, do even worse. And with in 3 years do to settling, can lose half of there original R value. Contrast that with spray foam, what you had at installation is what you will get. Provide it was installed by a trained professional, spray foam is not a DIY product. Also in the way the thermal dynamics works in spray foam, the R value is actually much higher than the R value tests reflect. And there is one thing about spray foam not mentioned here, but spray foam can improve the rigidity of a structure, making walls stronger. From what I’m finding the only problem with spray foam is installation cost. But over the useful lifetime of the structure spray foam is much cheaper, you can recoup the costs of installation within a couple years in energy savings alone. Good video, keep them coming.
This was such a helpful video. Insulation R Values have been so confusing to me. I will be able to use this to help explain to clients why choosing hempcrete is going to make such a huge difference in their energy efficiency.
Hempcrete really needs to be expressed as whole wall value. It has the ability to really stop air infiltration, has some thermal mass and lots of air pockets. So really hit has the best of many different types of insulation. Till more places get access at a decent price it just does not make much sense in the USA at this point. Exterior continuous insulation that is sealed at this point seem to make the most sense for me and seems that codes are pushing it to get to their required amounts.
@@stevepailet8258 Steve you are correct. It acts as a whole wall system and not just a filler if you will. I have struggled to understand how to compare it to other materials and this video just further pointed out to me that just stating an r value does not really describe a materials efficiency in keeping a home warm or cool. The thermal mass of course plays a role. Yes the price is high and probably unattainable for many at this time for the US but trust me there are a group of people working very hard including myself to make it an affordable option here. I'm impressed in your knowledge.
@@kmcroes Since I run a little blog about alternative materials for buildings with 20,000 folks I try to keep up and actually do a massive amount of research
@@stevepailet8258 no way! That's really great to hear. What's the blog. I can try and keep you updated on any new breakthroughs.
@@kmcroes Everything considered we are in need to work with the concept of thermal mass and the concept of thermal fly wheel. The other half of the discussion really revolves around conservation of energy. Leaky buildings do zero to conserve the energy that was used to get the structure to that which is comfortable to its inhabitants. Emphasis on comfortable. IFC builds along with poured concrete or rammed earth or hempcrete all use the thermal fly wheel effect but also do a great job of air sealing to conserve the energy. To me one can spend a great deal on a house but a poor envelope which I actually call encapsulation of the interior is exactly where real $$$ should be used in buildings. The interesting balancing act is to try to keep those costs down to a low roar.
FYI I've been on the phone for the last twenty minutes with a friend discussing life and so on. At the same time I've been looking at you frozen on this RUclips. It occurs to me that you need to know that I see you as a beautiful, sincere, thoughtful, articulate human being. Thank you! Now, on to your show!
FYI for you a lot of women do not necessarily enjoy having their appearance commented on by random men. Particularly when they've gone above and beyond proving their technical aptitude it can be supper annoying to have the top thing that gets commented on be their appearance. This is of course not always true but it's always like playing compliment roulette with this type of thing. They might take it as a complement and they might despise you. I can't speak for Belinda but most women that I've talked to about this type of thing would not want to hear that some rando has been staring at their image for 20 minutes.
I installed spray foam for years and argued with so many customers about R-value. Salesman would sell 3 inches of closed cell foam in a 3.5" exterior wall. It would clearly say on the paperwork 3"+/-. Some people would complain about some spots only being 2 or 2.5 while other spots were over filled and trimmed not understanding that 2 inches of closed cell is sufficient and far superior than fiberglass for a 2x4 exterior wall. Another job was sold for 7 in of closed cell in a 2x8 framed roof to meet the R49 code which is extreme overkill when spray foam is over 95% efficient at 3 inches. Anything more is a waste. Some people just don't get it. The building codes need to be updated to reflect this. Not all insulations should be in the same category
You will get different results from different people. I'm fussy and would do it myself and try for 2 to 3 inches, more in the edges. That stuff will make a house sturdy and strong spreading the lode evenly through the structure. We have preform concrete with 2 inches of foam inside and out. I'm sure the concrete is 6 and 8 inches. Its the difference between your roof coming off so easily.
@Anna Enjoy paying higher energy costs then. Problems can happen with any insulation type and more times than not often do with standard fiberglass batting. Improper installation is the norm anymore. All it takes is a small air gap where the batting isn't tight to the stud and there goes your R value. Why do you think they build freezers and fridges with foam insulation and not fiberglass or wool? Its far superior.
@@battlebob7241 ... the key here is they do foam NOW but years ago it was fiberglass for almost everything. Some of that is air infiltration but it originally started out as a quicker / cleaner manufacturing process with less waste.
@@battlebob7241 it maybe an incredibly effective material, but it is still an environmental disaster to use
@Anna Watch the video (3:25 time) instead of just coming here to comment. She states that houses using foam use half the energy to heat and cool. Don’t go for the lowball quote from ‘Clem’s Insulatin’ Company’ and you shouldn’t have any problems.
I woke up to go pee,, decided to watch one of your videos, and have just watched 6 of your videos from 3am to 5am, instead of sleeping.
Your videos are that great.
I just changed my camper insulation that was happening next week, all thanks to you.
I have liked all of your videos and subscribed.
Thank you Miss.
You
Belinda just busted the Fiber-Glass ceiling
I like when she was testing sheep-wool insulation batts and commented how it left hairs everywhere -- as she brushed wool hairs from the front of.her sweater with a frown. Real life, man.
HAHAHAHAHAH
It's nearly impossible to have a rating system that covers all situations.
But the U.S. could do *far* better than we have.
More realistic testing, more comprehensive numbers, pushing the manufacturers of 'legacy' products to innovate.
Building lags behind because of inertia in the industry, and how codes are written and implemented.
This is a big nation with every climate/geology available.
Yet people want a "universal building code"
Great! Let's keep sticking absurd conditions on an already complex and convoluted mess.
That's got to be better than common sense or personal responsibility, right?
@@ricoludovici2825 If only I had left the camera running when I choked and threw up after recording that video cause I couldn't breathe. Real life! :P
fiber glass is cheap. For good reasons. you get what you pay for
This is the BEST video I have seen on the topic.
Way better than some contractor with a RUclips… I love contractors and I love their videos, but this is very in depth.
Love this! I hate the R-Value system. I have had huge arguments with insulators re this exact topic. Thanks for articulating the issues so well!
I just happened to trip over your videos today and have been excited by you researching and answering soooo many of the questions that I've had about so many of these building construction/DYI issues that get all of this positive press hype while never revealing the downsides.
Thank you so much Belinda, I've subscribed and wait for your next critical and comparison analyses, we definitely need you to help us make those logical decisions in creating a home worth living in and the scrutiny truly necessary for a more sustainable future for mankind!
You are building an amazing channel. This is so necessary. I was just looking up this info on polyiso foam board.
Thank you!
This is a great overview. As a retired carpenter I have seen the good and bad. Beware plastic. I have seen and am suffering from insect destruction of spray foam. In old age, it can shrink back from the edges. Fiberglass when wetted will remain that way for a very long time. One house I renovated had its fiberglass destroyed by squirrels and mice. Any material can work but none are perfect. I like less wood in the walls, 2x6 on 24" centres with rockwool and fanatical attention to airleaks. My favourite concrete form is Durasol with rockwool preinstalled in the blocks.
I always tell people that this is true about everything, "There's a pro and con to everything. Nothing is ABSOLUTELY perfect. You decide which one is the better of two evils . So many builders talk like what they say is 100% Gold.
Bidal, sorry, but you're wrong. Elected politicians in DC have told us the wind and solar are perfect. No defects. No tradeoffs, no pro and cons. Just pure perfection.
Well, if you exclude doing nothing, you can have a thing that is better than another one in all relevant properties, in which case it is pretty unambiguous which one is the better one.
I agree, in construction where I once was... people talk exactly like you say... like they know everything and what they say is gold and anything else used is dog crap. This is why I work for myself and only work with people who are not a-holes. I got out of it because the market here is crap
I have been researching and working with insulation for a long time. I totally agree with that the fact that the R Value of different material does not standardise the overall effectiveness in the energy conservation. However big companies are realising these things because of which they are changing the construction practices such as thermal wraps around the insulation to avoid any air movement. This video explains most of my research in just under 6 minutes. But deep down i know it took lots of work and effort to conclude all this in such short and simple video. Kudos!. I do write articles. I would like to take your consent to cite this video in my article. Thanks
Hey Belinda can you talk more about insulation and ways to build for a hot climate like texas etc.. there is almost non-information about this topic anywhere, and nowadays it seems like summer months are being more unpleasant to people than winter.
oh and I so wanna see those RUclipsr who always talk about R-value face right now
Closed cell spray foam has been the go to product for green homes.
Very informative presentation.
It’s definitely time for real world insulation values. I remember visiting fortress Louisberg in Nova Scotia Canada. The stone walls were 3 feet thick in many places. Apparently it was fairly warm in winter and cool in summer due to the thermal mass. Lots of fireplaces for heat and cooking.
Also ICF builds seem to use less energy than predicted possibly due to better seal and thermal mass.
Foil covered foam also seems to be more efficient too, the claim being reflected heat both directions.
Good information. 10 years ago, I pulled all fiberglass out of our 1800 sq ft home, sprayed in closed cell... full 3.5 inches. Amazing difference in the comfort throughout house and utility bills. Saved a significant amount by spraying myself. Pulled fiberglass out of attic and installed 24 in of cellulose. Super easy to cool and heat. Works well in hot or cold climates. No issues in 112 f nor -20 f. No regrets whatsoever.
Thanks for making this video! I've had this conversation with clients so many times although I didn't have all of the details that you present here. I've worked on a lot of old homes with fiberglass insulation where cold air can be felt flowing in wherever there's an electrical outlet or other wall penitration. The insulation isn't doing a lot for you if cold air from outside can just flow right through it. Most people think that the r-value is a direct representation of how well whatever insulation they're looking at will stop thermal transfer when installed in their home and it's just not true as you present so clearly here. Do happen to know what the performance difference between fiberglass and denim insulation of the same r-value is? It seems to me that denim is much better at reducing air transfer.
We've got an issue with that in our house right now. Fancy double hung, double paned windows that I need to putty every year. The drafts are not fun and really chill the room they're in.
What a great channel. I logged in just to comment like and subscribe because Belinda didn't ask me to (until the very end) but instead went straight to the point. Wow.
I work in heat pumps and would love your video series on our stuff. A lot of the field vs lab testing has very similar issues. I have heard many manufacturers say ‘oh well, you know....’
How do you expect the lab to replicate field conditions, when every field is different? the rating system must set a standard for all the variables, so when two different labs, persons, countries, etc try to rate a piece of equipment, they come up with a result that we can use and compare. Otherwise, each manufacturer will set the best conditions that fits its design.
@@alneg6234 fair point, yet field and lab values are so divergent as to be meaningless. The answer seems to be to live with mainly pointless tests and never mention it. Mean while no one talks about why buildings don't actually perform or builders don't innovate. There are deep and fundamental problems in the entire sector.
I am finishing a basement with a product called insofast on the exterior concrete walls. They are really cool. They are interlocking foam panels with built-in plastic studs raceways and moisture channels. They adhere to the wall with construction adhesive. It is only rated at 10.5 R value, but the information on the site mentions that it has effectiveness of R-15 (and I suspect probably better) than a normal framed wall. This video confirms what I suspected. That the foam is a more dense insulator and the integrated studs eliminated the breaks that a normal framed wall created in the insulation. I am very happy with the finish product. The only drawback is getting electrical and other wiring into the wall through the raceways. It is not that bad, but definitely more hassle than a normal framed wall; but worth it.
Great video!
Time marker 3:30 "an inch of fiberglass is supposed to have an R35 value" Perhaps you intended R3.5?
One inch of fiberglass has an R value of about 3.3. I assumed she had used the metric system when she said 35, but if you divide 35 by 5 you get 7 so that assumption was wrong too. I think she just misspoke the number.
Thank you for another educational video! Appreciate listening to someone who is well educated on a subject AND is not trying to sell a particular product.
Good video. Thank you for that excellent explanation. Is there a particular spray foam you would recommend for domestic use, in terms of open cell/ closed cell, toxic propellant gases, fire resistance, Grenfell towers, etc.
I am an HVAC contractor and a Building Performance Institute Building Analyst, she is exactly right about fiberglass insulation not performing as advertised. Buildings must be air sealed first, then insulated second. Sprayed foam has the potential to be many times better than other forms of insulation, but it must be applied in layers with adequate time given for curing between layers. See the videos about the homes where the foam application was rushed and off gassing made the buildings uninhabitable to the point they had to be demolished.
Pretty much every standardized evaluation method we have is based on perfect conditions and can't take into account all the variables.
Yes, you have to set all variables equal in order to compare products. No one is trying to scam the consumer, most of these agencies are governmental or totally independent from he manufacturers.
Thank you so much for your educational and thorough research on these important subjects. It is so helpful and practical to all of us. ❤ I am so happy I found your channel. Thank you for doing this necessary work and sharing it with us.
Lots of gratitude to you dear Belinda
Up here in Wisconsin builders almost always use blown fiberglass in the attics - mainly because it's cheaper. When it gets really cold (as it is today) air moving in/out of the soffits can get down into these fluffy fibers, seriously degrading it's effectiveness. Plus it's so light that it doesn't "fit" around the trusses/pipes/framing etc, leaving big voids underneath - easily seen with an infra red camera. I always advise clients to choose cellulose as it performs much better when you really need it to.
I also highly recommend blown in cellulose for lids.
Another great video. To those who comment that they now understand R-value and/or the value of R-Value, it’s just one of several factors to consider. As Belinda notes, air-movement is a critical consideration. And when controlling air-movement we have to consider water vapor. Fact is, buildings are very, very, complex. Code writers need to consider a complex variety of interacting systems for a wide range of climates. I look forward to the time when Belinda needs to attach a lengthy series of her own links to each video!
6"-cob wall (adobe) has like a 3-day fire wall rating. That is, how long it takes a fire on one side of the wall to have an affect on the opposite side. Also, has an R-value of r-50- which is commercial-grade.
Are you preparing for an apocalypse? What do you need 3 day fire rating for? 1 hour is enough to get out, and get the fireman working.
@@juzoli have you heard of the wildfires..?no need to be that thick- except to support itself as its being constructed. This stuff hardens as it's heated- still wouldnt wanna find out for myself. It's just how well cob works..clay, silt, and straw is abundant. --look at thatch roofs in the rainy english countryside that have lasted for 4-500 yrs, just by replacing the ridge-cap however often. The apocalypse may be a change, but i dont believe it to be the end (:::
@@zachrawlings6523 That’s good for California, but not necessary for most people.
@@juzoli im not in california. I think youre missing the point
@@zachrawlings6523 Then why are you advocating for 3 day fire rating, if it is completely unnecessary for most homeowners?
Lots of great information here, it helped me a ton making a decision on the house I am living in. It was built in 1911 with ZERO insulation and not very well sealed at all now. In fact on a windy day I can open a window and feel air blowing through... Anyway I want to do my best to seal things up as well as insulate things and the best thing I could come up with that will also protect the house even better is to use both fiberglass insulation batts and XPS foamboards. The walls are currently 2X4's but I have been furring them out with 2X2's so I have something closer to a 2X6. I am sealing the perimeter 2X2's as well as all 2X2's over the rough openings with silicone. Then I am putting in the fiberglass insulation and finally laying a bead of silicone around the perimeter and penetration boards and installing 2 inch thing XPS foam which are held in place with screws. Each sheet of XPS is also being sealed to the next sheet and eventually I will tape all the seams.
This is all being done from the outside of the house as the interior walls are in pretty good condition, it involves pulling a ton of nails to remove the siding nicely so I can put it back up till I can deal with replacing it but it's just going to be held on with a couple screws till then. Doing this all on a dirt cheap budget compared to most people but when I am done I will literally have the best insulated house in town. Eventually going to do batt insulation in the floor joists which are over a crawlspace and then applying foamboard in a similar fashion. The roof is a different story since I have 2X4 vaulted ceilings with very little attic space but I am thinking I can leave an air gap of about an inch between some foamboard and the roof sheathing by slipping in a piece of R10 XPS and then cap that all off with a full sheet of R10 XPS foam shrinking the ceiling height a couple inches. That should allow enough airflow for ventilation but help insulate it pretty well but I don't want to shrink the room more than that.
I will also eventually be replacing all the windows as they just threw aluminum windows into the old window frames and did nothing with the rough openings and when that is done I will be sealing things up really well but that is a project down the road. Honestly I am seriously thinking about just going old school and building them but with a modern touch. The walls will be just about 9 inches thick with the lath and plaster inside and the walls extended so I have thought about building them out of wood and using 2X3's for the windows themselves and running 3 panes of glass. I refuse to use aluminum windows and hate the thought of vinyl windows after seeing all the siding that is falling apart after a couple years. Maybe wood isn't as good as vinyl but it's a lot better than aluminum windows for thermal bridging.
Thanks for the great info though.
This is great. Sad, but informative ;-)
Sooo many places for air to escape and/or cold to come in in older homes!!!
Such kind, polite, and thoughtful videos!! I love the content and delivery. You have the diplomatic gift to criticize a product/procedure and then provide next steps for improvement.
Excellent presentation as usual. Plane to use spray foam insulation in new build home.
I am a geothermal HVAC contractor in TX and I use spray foam insulation encapsulation on my projects. I typically can reduce the cooling tonnage required by half with foam insulation versus blown in and batts. We just experienced record breaking cold here. Not one of my foam insulation customers had any issues with frozen pipes but the blown in fiberglass or cellulose people had multiple frozen and burst water pipes. I can't understand why foam insulation is not required on all new construction. The install cost is a little higher but the long term benefit is well worth the extra front end cost. The resulting energy savings and comfort levels in summer are my main targets for using spray foam but they are great for those nasty cold days as well. I love you channel please keep up the good work.
SInce I understand most of the words you are speaking, I always feel super smart after watching! Then a shiny thumbnail distracts me and I click the video of a cat watching another cat watching birds LOL 😍 your channel!
Dear Ms. Carr: I am really happy I found you. I have owned a home or two and never knew all this about R values. Thank you for explaining the pit falls. This is what a professional like you should be talking about.
>>I agree that there should be a standard that is easy to understand. Perhaps a table giving upper, mediums, and lower conditions on the product for the laymen would help in selection of a product. Manufacturers should simply work their hardest to sell the best. Right?
With respect,
NHG
I can confirm ......blue or pink styrofoam insulation can make the warmest of seats in a Yukon outhouse at -50 c
I can confirm that fiberglass batt toilet seat insulation makes the ichiest asses!
@@danielvivian3282 Oh boy! Don't run out of tp and use the insulation!
Lol thats a great testing method
@@lukewarm2075 hahaha....yes , and a proven one at that.....it immediately takes on the temp of your skin and at least makes the inconvenient times a little more bearable in the cold
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
The steady state limitation of the R value is an important insight. As a formerly HVAC-adjacent worker, I can appreciate the distinction between insulation for static thermal gradients (e.g. hot water tanks and refrigerators) and for dynamic thermal gradients (e.g. siding and roofing). I wonder if it would make sense to treat insulation as a "low pass filter" for temperature variations, with a separate "cutoff frequency" rating.
Great insight!
You are pointing out the weakness of the current R value system! Thank you!! We need the "big" picture view of all "truth factors"!
It is truly confusing as you have a rating system that is blind to some factors. Along with big business advertising promoting long standing (but profitable) poor products!
Atomized air seal along with closed cell spray foam seem to be very promising. But horribly expensive.....there needs to be alot more competition!!
just jim
I am enjoying your videos on insulation. I live in a 50+ year old hose with 2x4 exterior walls. We had blown in insulation put in the attic about 10 years ago, but the basement has 1/3 exposed foundation and very little fiberglass insulation in the walls. There is no insulation between the garage and the bedrooms above.
I had thought blow in foam insulation would be an option for the garage ceiling, but did not realize the the ceiling would have to come down. I have also seen a couple consumer reports type news programs on incorrect installation and nightmares for the home owners. It is going to be a big project.
As some one mentioned, there is now an air tightness test. I am sure as time goes on, more test will be used to take into account what mother nature actually does.
Just like anything - even air tightness can become problematic. A friend of mine recently renovated an old country house in Texas. They took it back to the studs, super-insulated it, air tight, etc. It performed great - AC usage was very low. Then the winter came. Every time he tried to have a fire in his fire place it would not stay lit. He had to crack a window to allow air into the room to allow the fire to burn. Modifications to the fire place eventually solved this. My point is that even a good feature like air tightness can create other, unforeseen issues. The more we do - the more we learn.
@@jimnotman6902 absolutely right. I found it fascinating that air tight houses needed calculated conditioned air inlets. A fireplace would truly complicate the issue.
Why would anyone have an open fire going (camp fire) in an air-tight, well insulated home?
Seems unneeded and dangerous.
Thanks Belinda . you are my 'go to ' from now on . What belinda doesn't know isn't worth knowing x
Agreed theses Tests are truly Flawed. But they're here to a least give people, somewhat of an idea of products and materials and energy values.
True but its kind of the equivalent of telling a color blind person that the sky is blue.
@@theruleoffire your analogy isn't even in the same waters.
@@theruleoffire exactly... @C obviously can’t grasp the concept of something the government told him/her is wrong
I can't disagree that the test may be lacking. However, I also did not hear of a proposed solution to the issue so far. So noting a test has gaps is one thing, but not having a solution to suggest gets us no closer to real answers than the flawed test. So my question to any commenter is, how would you solve the problem of current testing gaps?
@@jeffbeaird747 You must think in black and white and can't comprehend a statement and then make assumptions about @C. Telling a blind person the sky is blue, is a black and white statement, at face value (you are assuming they were always blind and never saw color in the past). A blind person can't see the color of the sky, while we can compare materials based on R value. @C didn't say anything about R value, just about the analogy, from what I saw. R6 foam sheet can be compared to R13 sheet, fiberglass to fiberglass, etc. One product can be compared to another, if you understand the nuances. Belinda said a home with R12 foam uses half the energy of a home with R20 fiberglass. If we had data on R20 foam, then it could be even better compared. A more accurate analogy would have been that it is like asking a person with nearsightedness to read a street sign without their glasses. They can see there is a sign, might see enough to make out a name or know it doesn't match the street they are looking for, but they can't easily identify that street without more work (getting closer). We know a lot about various insulations and can compare them, but we can't easily identify what value they have compared to other types. Gray vs. black and white.
From an engineering point of view, this is a fantastic anf well prepared video. Excellent work.
The problem isn’t R value testing but the simplistic way some people may use R values. Clearly any insulation that is compromised by thermal bridging, moisture, air infiltration, compression or other factors will not deliver the R value it is rated for. This is just common sense, not some big secret. Further other factors such as potential chemical off-gassing by spray foam resulting from an incorrect mix are not discussed. Not a fan.
Love the discussion, I have always thought there was something missing in the R value calculation. Certain products do have a higher ability to resist the flow of heat, yet don’t have a higher R value than those products the don’t resist the flow as well. I have studied the Passive House method of insulating and creating an air tight method of home building, yet allowing for breathability outwards and resisting moisture permiablity inwards. Fascinating stuff
Expanding foam in an attic has a major downside. Once installed, it's difficult to remove. That is one reason I went with 16-inches of blown-in cellulose in my attic covered by attic foil. If I need to get to the wiring, I can simply kick the cellulose aside. Cellulose also has excellent fire and insect prevention abilities. The one downside is it doesn't like getting wet. Then it reverts to being paper fiber.
What I want to know is where this young lady has been all this time.
Good information delivered like a breath of fresh air - thanks!
There are definitely a few problems with the issues you raise.
You bring up, more than once, that sprayfoam creates an air tight seal, and say that other insulators do not. This is true, but is a pretty deceptive way to present information. Other insulations get vapour barriers installed, drywall prevents air movement, as does the sheathing on a house, the house wrap, etc. Moving one part of the system, from batt+poly to sprayfoam, doesn't negate there being *a system* - and it's why, when considering sprayfoam, the type of cell has to be considered too.
All that, though, is moot, because you're conflating how the wall system (with air and vapour barrier) works, with r-value. R-value has nothing to do with most of the points you try to bring up against it. Whether or not the insulation has a built in vapour barrier has no effect on the r-value, if you are comparing that *system* against one where a vapour barrier is installed as well.
You like to say how rigid foam blocks air better, but it's actually *worse*, especially in any application other than 100% continuous. If you tried to put rigid foam between studs, you'll never get a seal.
What you do, at the end especially, is compare more elements of a system, against fewer elements of a system. And that's just misleading.
And then I had to go read that "study" you linked to... page 5 they "tested" 6 inches of loose fill attic at -18f. Who, anywhere, insulates to only 6" in an attic, especially anywhere that gets down to -27c or lower? All their 'sources' are anecdotal. This is not "a study", this is an 11 page rant, and a particularly poor one. Attic convection loops? Because you didn't build the system properly with venting, maybe. But you have way worse problems if you do that.
Very well said. Rare to find an individual that looks at everything so completely and understands it!!!
This is music to "Thebuildshows" ears.
"Oooon the build show" 😀
@@elwinvanwees8516 I think Matt does a good job trying to advance building and promoting fairly innovative products that are generally good quality. I will say, I get an uneasy feeling for some reason with the heavy use of spray foam though. Not sure why. I just wonder if in 30 years we will regret it's use.
@@JimYeats my concern is the burn rate and the toxic fumes in the event of a fire.
@@lesnewsom6000 Yes, that is definitely a well known - and major - downside of spray foam. Stuff is like a torch.
@@JimYeats Yeah, I'm not a fan of it as well. I've heard in some of the southern states like Florida, builders have stopped using it..
because of a fear of offgassing, that and termites seem to like to tunnel through it.
i am based in south Africa and have been in the insulation field for 7 or 8 years and have worked with a very wide range of materials, here in SA we mostly use Aerolite glass fibre (Also known as Think Pink), Polyester Fibre from recycled PET Bottles and then the Cellulose Fibre, which has been my main material used but these days the manufacturers struggle to get newspaper for it.
We have great potential for spray foam, however there are not many manufacturers of it locally, so the few guys who do install spray foam insulation import it with highly specialized equipment which makes it too expensive for some of the projects it could be used for.
thank you for the great videos
These myths extend into US patents whose standards of evidence are based on prevailing myths in the patent's industry when the patent is granted.
Reminds me of the Thompson submachinegun when it was first created and patented to use the Blish-lock principle (Metals having different coefficients of friction at high pressure than low pressure.) which lead to a brass locking wedge being placed into the gun to delay the gun from opening until at a safe pressure.
Years later it turned out that brass locking wedge was an unnecessary piece and was dropped by the time World War 2 came around.
@@peepsbates ..fascinating! Someone should compile a book of nonsense accepted as "fact" from various patent offices. While this will likely never be done, I would buy a copy.
You share so much information. Thank you. Lots of food for thought. And I like how you give non-bias comparison. You’re not selling anything, which I like
Fahrenheit, square foot and BTU all at once... shoot me already.
Welcome to America! 😄
We have an idea for the tea you're drinking chap
@Kal Halson So, the USSR, China, Japan and India aren't countries???
AFAIK only _one_ country has landed man on the moon, but let's not let facts get in the way of your stupidity.
@Kal Halson Of what?
There's nothing pedantic there. There's also no denying the Soviets had a lunar probe land before the USA did.
@Kal Halson Sad to inform you, the Russian made it there first using the metric system. Took a few plane crashes to stop using incompatible gallons!
Very good explanation of the subject. I also agree that it is very important to make sure that you do not only pay attention to the material but also to things like how air tight the insulation is. Here in Germany it is normal to make a test where they install a blower fan instead of the front door. Then a measurement is done how much air flow is required to create certain pressure in the house. If the value it to high they try to find leaks. This is sometimes more important than the material.
Some insulations actually increase in R value the colder it gets, some get worse.
Air tightness testing in new construction and renovation is definitely key, and it's starting to make its way into building codes (though not, sadly, where I live in Ontario). I think that air tightness, in conjunction with R value, is fairly useful. I would love to see a metric that measures loss in performance over time of each product. We definitely in Ontario have a better understanding of effective R value of total assemblies, vs just R value of materials, than we used to. We typically use closed cell spray foam in our builds. It's great, as you've said, but I worry that the houses will be impossible to remodel decades down the line since the stuff is pretty much impossible to remove... certainly without cutting wires or pipes embedded in the wall. Great video, thank you!
Simplified testing is like the simplistic "climate modeling" that never gets it right.
I'll take "gets it a bit" over "gets it right" every day if the alternative is "make it up without any supporting modeling or analysis"
Good explanation. I always try to explain to people that the R-value of the insulation installed IN the wall (or attic) does not = the R-value OF the wall. Your video does that very well.
I got hooked watching and listening to her detailed look at R-Values and other building products. I've been in the industry of designing homes for just over 35 years and I've seen energy code regulations get more and more strict. Often forcing us to us very specific systems, but Belinda has peeled back an old dusty curtain and shined a light on so many of the flawed thinking and approaches to reducing the energy we use on and in our homes. She is right, we don't ever really look at that energy difference AFTER the homes are built.
The main difference between looking at building as a total SYSTEM versus the more common code approach of COMPONENTS. If Boeing built airplanes using a component approach, planes would be falling out of the sky every day!
Thank you for shaking these trees :-)
I just finished installing 3 inches of spray foam. I can no longer hear the traffic noise from the freeway 100 yards away from my home. This is a renovation project and my neighbors have been curious so I invited them in. They are stunned that the noise from the freeway is barely detectable. One lady said "NO WAY!" but she liked the noise reduction. Spray foam is more expensive, but the list of benefits (eliminates vapor penetration, more rigid wall structure, mold mildew and microbial resistance, noise reduction to mention a few). I wondered what was meant by "class A fire rated" too so I took a blow torch to a scrap piece out side the home . It charred after a while but did not ignite. Temperature and absence of moisture on the sprayed surfaces is critical though. I lost 4 pounds on an 85 degree day wearing the TYVEK suit, mask and gloves.
Thank you for this line of intelligent questioning! As a person with no building background trying to improve the energy efficiency of my commercial space, this is incredibly helpful.
Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate you explaining what r-value is, how it is tested, and the shortcomings of this system.
I much prefer to separate the air control layer and thermal control layer as I rarely would want to use them as both. Spray foam can be air tight where it is, if installed properly, and that is a big if, I have seen many failures. But it wouldn’t be between studs or other connections and therefore would be a discontinuous air control layer.
I agree with your thoughts on other topics, but also believe Rvalue should be tested at different temperatures as not all insulation’s perform the same in cold weather. Of course that matters most for the insulation facing the cold side as there will be a temperature gradient across it. Also, thermal stability as the insulation ages, some insulation’s don’t fair as well as others. Some foam based insulation products tend to shrink slightly over times too! Then we could get into thermal diffusivity, which also impacts performance.
The last critical important factor is climate change and the embodied carbon associated with each type of insulation!! Foams can be very high in embodied carbon and never pay back in terms of operational carbon emissions. This results in natural based insulation’s being the better choice for climate change. That being said, there has been some progress in foams to make them less bad from an embodied carbon standpoint, but still resulting in higher embodied carbon emissions than other options.
Nice video!!
Would adding terms proportionally allotting to the formula account for this? such as accounting for R-5 wood studs being about 20% of the area, and for the area of R-2 for double paned windows, etc? And the sealing of openings that allow the movement of air should also be accounted for, but I haven't thought it out long enough to figure how standard wy to do that.
Insulated ten years with fiberglass, cellulose & Rockwood. Foam sprayed on is the most efficient but if there are health concerns ...I'm not informed of them. In any case in a home fire foam is highly toxic and would quickly be a issue. I helped a neighbor who used R - 21 batts in garage walls, applied R - 8 styrofoam sheeting over inside of wall studs. This requires extended length drywall screws and marking studs on the floor with chalk for easier drywall application. Damn garage is warmer than his house with R - 38 blown in the attic over R - 8 sheeting and drywall. All seams were taped with 3m red tape. It's a three car garage with ten foot high walls and insulated car doors. In - 5 with - 15 wind-chill five minutes of a small propane heater will drown you out it's so warm.
I'm late to posting on this topic but I have to say that when these insulation products are installed "Properly" according to the manufacturer then most of these R values are true. BUT, that's the trick, most likely there are deficiencies in proper installation in which the secondary properties should be taken in to account. Awesome video, keep them rolling in 👍.
Great info. I’d like to add the temperature of the material itself can affect its R-value. For example a building with a static interior temperature insulated with polyisocyanurate exposed to exterior temperature near zero degrees F will have a diminished R-value compared to a summer day with outside temperatures near 90 degrees. Also, the concept of “R-per-inch” of thickness for materials is an oversimplification, when tested some materials like polyiso will exhibit increasing “efficiency” as thickness increases. A new comparative (assembly?) standard is much needed.
Thanks, Belinda
I am studying for a contractors license and your videos are very helpful.
Extremely useful and straightforward. This helped me in deciding what to do for my home currently under construction. Thank you!
Straight to the point uncovering a fault within our system of building. There needs to be more people like Belinda scrutinizing the building industry.
The R-value should be according to the area and there also should be a greater emphasis on sealing the house at lock up stage. This of course would put a proper requirement on local councils to pass a house only upon the lock up reaching a minimum standard. Ventilation then would also be a priority .
I just wanted to tell you I really like your videos. This is a great channel. Your presentation is always very well done. Thank you for the information you share.
Good summary of what the R-value really means. The code requirements are written to try to standardize and compare apples to apples when talking about different types of insulation and construction methods. Even though foam is a more stable insulation material than fiber, foam in certain environments might be challenging when considering ventilation, condensation, etc. I’m not sure if you have a video on that. But would be nice to see a short summary on that. Of cause the best system is a an air tight shell with a controlled ventilation system, probably mechanical. But it needs to be maintained. So it’s a balancing act between natural breathing structure, insulation, and summer / winter cycle.
As Professional Engineer, who has been involved in manufacturing (and heat testing) for 50 years in various industries , directly related to R-values, I can attest that everything this lady says is absolutely correct!
If I were build a new house today, I would lean toward the spray foam, as it best gives you the stated R-value, and helps to seal the wall. However, the cost would need to be competitive. If you have “batt” insulation installed, you want to totally inspect the installation of the batts, before the interior vapour barrier is installed!
I like when real engineering gets applied to things. Heat transfer is really quite simple (as explained here) and it's amazing how much better of a system you can make when you take advantage of it. My new house is going to be structurally insulated panels with solid foam and no joints to allow the heat out. I'm expecting it to be very cheap to heat the house and even the attached garage. To take it a step further, I plan on reducing the total surface area on the house and putting casement windows that are much better than double hungs windows.
Great video. Have you read research from Lawrence Livermore National Lab showing that poor installation combined with convective currents in stud cavities reduce R value considerably? Most worrisome is the fact that as temps decline the problem gets worse.
Belinda,
Excellent summary video. I too agree the R-value scoring system doesn't reflect reality. It should be abandoned except as a single component of a more realistic "Equivalent R-value" or "Total R-value."
For example an ICF wall may have only R-28 value due to its 2.5" of closed-cell foam on the inside & outside... however concrete is a thermal conductor & if it's 100°F outside & the basement foundation wall footings are 10' below the ground level bathed in cool earth going down 10' ... that concrete part of the assembly certainly Is Resistant the above grade 100°F Heat Transfer by way of the conductive heat transfer from the wall above grade into the below grade cool wall.
The Assembly does resistant heat transfer ... though differently even throughout the day.
Cheers,
Eric
Belinda , thanks for keeping these videos coming ! you make great content videos , I really enjoyed them
Thanks, Leo!
@@BelindaCarr now you got me thinking about home improvement, should I go with a metal garage shed ? Or just build my own with concrete blocks , I feel like if I do it myself will be saving a bit of money and make it with better quality
I'm very glad that you explained how homes are leaky and simply going by R-value alone isn't going to paint the whole picture for an insulation application. I've always known that Urethane foam is the way to go because it helps seal up the cracks/gaps. And because of this, we should consider air quality in a home when it is used. People should invest into an ERV so that outside air can be moved inside and inside air outside using a heat exchanger to help prevent thermal losses.