Between mostly this channel, and the Build Show (Matt Risinger), talking about the modern building science, I have really slowed down on my updating/remodeling of my current home. So many things I just did not know that I am now learning. Thanks for the remodel/updating will be the better for it (I am thinking). Thanks... 👍
I've watched a lot of Matt's videos as well along with this channel to learn more about building science and materials. We ended up doing open cell foam but really wish I woukd have done rockwool.
I too have learned a lot from Matt and Belinda. I enjoy her tests and comparisons since they help me decide which of similar materials would be better for my construction. However, - and this is a BIG problem - you will have a hard time finding engineers who are up on modern [meaning 'the latest'] materials and installations, especially at the local building authority. Younger engineers may be more amenable to working with new stuff, but most of the older engineers simply will not take the trouble to learn about something like ZIP wall systems or air intrusion mitigation. I recommend very strongly that one study the latest codes IBC, UBC very carefully so that you can prove to the plan reviewer that you actually ARE meeting codes. I live in climate zone 5 at 7500 ft in the mountains near Las Vegas. I have selected fireproof or fire-resistant materials for the outside of the house, so Belinda's observations about the susceptibility of either open or closed cell foam are a concern. However, since the thermal engineer specified R 46 for the roof, I will go with closed cell. It's like living in a Coleman cooler. No air gets in.And the entire outside is either metal, Hardie siding or masonry with Rockwool commercial insulation over the exterior sheeting.
Hi Belinda, as someone who has zero to do with construction in their day to day life I just wanted to thank you for your great videos! They're so interesting and informative, even for someone who has no knowledge on these topics, and they helped me connect more with my dad who's a carpenter. He now specializes in Windows and was so surprised I knew about things like R values and vapor permeability.
Holy hell, I'm an energy advisor in canada and just found your channel. I will be watching so many more videos it is such thorough information! Thanks :)
I guess I can't use the word NEVER anymore with regard to leaving comments or reviews but felt the need to let you know that you do an exceptional job of educating and explaining whatever subject your speaking about. Excellent excellent explanation of open and closed cell spray foam. I was having an argument with a buddy as to what type of foam we had been handling on one of our job sites. I said it was a closed cell type and he insisted it was open cell. I honestly didn't know why I thought it was "closed" and he couldn't explain why he believed it was open cell. After much "googling" and online research it wasn't until we came across your thorough explanation of the properties of each that I was ultimately determined to be correct in that we were handling a closed cell variety; which as luck would have it meant that i got to collect the hundred $$ which my buddy and I had wagered. Every other video left some doubt as to which was which..... Thank you for your hard work and excellent review!! You've got a great channel... Keep up the good work!!
I was the Super on a job replacing the polyurethane foam roof cover on the Wedway People Mover in Disney World in Florida in the early '80s. We had a fantastic spray applicator that had worked in Alaska insulating oil pipes and tanks, he could lay down a nearly flat uniform layer of foam on the sheet metal that few could match. One drawback was the super fine "dust" residue that sailed with the breeze that got on everything. I was standing on the ground watching the operation with one of Disney's Supers and from my angle could see a light dusting on his sunglasses, I don't think he noticed, the dusting would erode away with UV from the sun and washing but it was a problem when we were applying foam 25' up on a roof with thousands of "guests" wondering about. I would imagine that that problem has been eliminated by now. Thanks for your great videos!
We used spray foam on our last remodel. The cost is the only big draw back personally. But the result is impressive. 1400sqft 1940s single story heated comfortably with just a cheap space heater.
We have closed cell foam in our house. We used it in the LID (ceiling drywall) and the outside walls. The attic is not sealed. Good news, when we had a leak in our roof the incoming water pooled on top of the insulated ceiling (water tight from the closed cell foam). Plus the other benefit, we were able to walk in the attic with no issues since the closed cell spay foam is so rigid. We used rock wool in the interior walls to dampen sound and help with fire slow down (rock wool in downstairs ceiling also). Since the house is so air tight we did install an HRV. This is really important to keep the air quality good. I really like the closed cell foam. No drafts, walls are not cold to the touch (and I live in northern Idaho!). We also have triple pain windows and well insulated doors. Really keeps the heating bill down!
How did you end up finding the leak? Most people almost never go in attic. ?? Thats thing about closed on the roof deck.. It will rot the deck and if left long enough the joists. Opencell will drip to drywall and damage interior. Really a house should have yearly inspections.
@@turboflush I heard drips hitting the ceiling. Since this was a new build we were looking for issues. Sure enough we saw puddles over the closed cell. Since every
The closed cell foam is great if you wanna build something like a DIY lightweight truck bed camper. The foam adds a lot of strength so you don't need to build a large heavy frame or walls. It's also protects from leaks and moisture wood rot so you could use some cheaper wood for the frame.
I work for a small HVAC contractor near DFW and spray foam insulation is one of the services we offer. It's cool to learn a bit more about the materials science behind it
Off-gasing is one issue to consider. It does take a while (like days or even weeks) for the fumes to disperse. There's a reason the installers wear hazmat suits when spraying it on. We did a lot of spray foam in our new build house, but had to air out the house continually with fans for days. However it is really good stuff for sound proofing and insulation purposes.
Off gas. On most foams happen within 10 seconds of spraying. There may be a small.amount trapped on a house for a short period but if well ventilated, all gasses should be gone within an hr or less.
From what I have watched on other channels, one of the biggest reasons for all the gear the spray installers wear is because the wet product sticks to EVERYTHING, including clothes, hair, and skin, and very hard to remove from anything fibrous.
They wear the suits to keep it off their skin and out of pores -- as well as out of the lungs. If a couple drops get up the nose or in the lungs. If they grow either 40x or 100x their wet volume -- they make a blowfish look skinny.
Amazing video! Super thorough and objective. We saw so many conflicting views on moisture but the experiment in this video answered it perfectly. Thank you!
I know the bare minimum about construction. I only know what I’ve heard from my father. I find your videos so interesting. I’m learning about things I’d never thought I’d ever think to learn about. You’ve made construction interesting to me. Thank you!
Hi Belinda My home got flooded by hurricane Ian. You seem to have a chemistry background like myself. Your information here was very helpful. Thank you so much
I’m new to your channel. Great information, your video on fiberglass and Rockwool insulation showed up in my feeds, I’m not disappointed. You know your stuff. From personal experience when insulating a basement, closed cell spray foam is worth ever penny, and final costs are not much different than Rockwool. And with the new low or so called zero VOC foams, the fact that closed cell is it’s own vapor barrier and has almost zero mold issues, insulating with foam is a no brainer. Will be looking forward to more of your videos, well done. 👍
In your followup video, please address the creation of fomaldahyde in your lungs when you breathe in the gasses that are created during spray application. The vapors themselves are less toxic before our lungs get involved and modify the compounds. Spray foam is a very complex topic. Thanks for taking it on. It should give you content for many in depth videos. I appreciate the level of detail you achieve.
Excellent vid as always! One sidenote, for high humid areas SE US mostly, where average humidity is higher than ashra standards, vapor closed is a better option. Yes I know highly debated topic but if build properly, according dept of energy, the excess humidity will be released through other means such as HVAC systems and should be designed that way. Hope I'm not rocking the boat but I'm sure some will disagree as I use to disagree before intensely studying the complicated physics with water vapor dynamics. TY again for the great vid!!!
@@BelindaCarr Nice! TY! It's greatly greatly misunderstood especially among inspectors in these areas who will always say vent no matter what. That's because some less knowledgeable builders make material mistakes causing buildings to rot. There is a ton of physics behind this. Dr. Joe Lstiburek writes for Dept of Energy on the physics. However in some of his papers and vids he does not make the distinction between high humid regions unless perhaps you pay him as a consultant. 😂
Yo, that was a top notch video😮 I love how you went into the different climate zones and said why would be good to use it for homes in different areas because in general you read that the close sell is what’s good for insulating homes but it all depends on the direction of the heat exchange
This is a good first intro to spray foam insulation - I used closed cell foam for my metal-sided shop. I heat 1600 sq feet with a singe 1,500 watt heater - SO much better than fiberglass. BTW - glad to learn that water is not a chemical (sorry, I couldn't resist)
Good info. Surprised there were no masks used in the labs. I look forward to you talking about the health and environmental impacts with it being left out of this video. In my eyes those are big drawbacks of foam along with its permanence. I would have addressed those specific cons more in this introduction of the material.
I loved this video as always (although I'm not sure why I like them), but I was also a little disappointed when the only environmental impact she mentioned was CO2 contribution. This is plastic and gets shaved and crumbles into tiny particles. The amount of microplastics introduced into the local environment during demolition must be tremendous. I'll look forward to that in the next video.
I’m new to this channel, she knows her stuff. As for some of your concerns about spray foam you may want to look at the Spray Jones channel. He is in the business of spray foam and does a really great job explaining its use and value. Also the new low or so call zero VOC type foams are incredible. I do believe one of the more recent Home Builder Show with Matt Resigner goes into detail about it. I started out was going to do a flash and bat with my basement finish, cost was a factor. But after watching Spray Jones videos I went with closed cell foam only in the walls, higher performance, it is it’s own moisture barrier and no risk of the foam retaining moisture or becoming a breeding ground for mold. Have not regretted it. In the end the cost was not much high than using Rockwool insulation. And at nearly three times the insulation value, a huge savings on heating costs. All things to consider. Hope this helps.
@@Tatsuji_Tatchan most people who build homes do not take into account what the consequences of their building decisions will be.when i demolish a standard stick built home and am required to bring the material to a recycling facility there is a large amount of material that can be burned, composted, or otherwise used beneficially. If I were to demolish a house with closed cell foam stuck to every wood surface it would render it unusable and destined for the landfill.
@@lightningdemolition1964 I can see your point, but the mindset is rather like deciding not to have a child because eventually, some day, they will die and need to be buried or burned.
Good point on the moisture permeability. Open cell foam on the inside of a panel in cold weather can result in rot, mildew, or rust. This can be an issue in insulating vehicles, metal and wood buildings.
Thank you for putting this together Belinda! The only info out there is biased and you’re covering info that hasn’t been before. Much appreciated. Big fan. Request: Can you please explain the different application between Sealant Foam spray and Closed-Cell Foam spray?
Nice video. We are finalizing our remodel and opted to use foam insulation for the attic and cantilever sections of the second floor while using traditional fiberglass insulation on the walls to save money. While I was very strongly in favor of going with closed cell foam due to the strength and waterproof properties, I wasn't able to due to cost considerations and have open cell foam in the attic/cantilever. The fact that water damage (indicating a leak) can be seen was a plus that I was not aware of. I recommend in the next video you cover the need to add a fireproofing paint coating for certain spaces.
Worked in a large shed that was sprayed with closed cell spray foam many years earlier. It was peeling away from the roof and was becoming brittle... and it never achieved the cooling effects claimed. And when electricians needed to fix something they had to dig it all away to fix/replace cables.
Not enough ppl talk about how using purely spray foam only complicates remodeling and fishing electrical wires, IMO that’s a huge downsize. I recognize that the vapor barrier is a great attribute, therefore IMO the best technique is to use just 1-2” of closed cell and then a blow in cellulose or rockwool product
The vapor barrier with closed cell insulation is a great option. No need to blow in insulation if you use the correct thickness polyiso. You could also install polyiso between your studs.
@@larryschweitzer4904 Not necessarily. It will depend on the climate. You need to calculate the dewpoint in the wall based on the temperature drop gradient through the assembly. If the dewpoint is in the foam, or preferably on the outside of the foam, you are safe. This may well be the case if you have used a continuous insulation on the outside of the stud. The cellulose or rockwool will dry to the inside, as long as you do not double your membrane by installing poly under the drywall (building code officials in my area tend to have some problems understanding this). This situation creates a condition similar to a diaper where you end up with moisture trapped between the layers.
Just a question , I have heard stories of the chemicals being put together wrong by the installation companies causing toxic issues, does it still happen or have they made it more foolproof ? Love your channel & the way you honestly describe things ..
Thank you for including data with the video. It would be interesting to me if you expanded the discussion about hybrid systems (e.g. closed cell + Rockwool, fiberglass, or blown insulation, etc.) in a future video.
Also we’re choosing finishings for a new apartment and we’re wondering what’s the difference between engendered hardwood, real hardwood and the laminate flooring. What are the pros and cons? What is more sustainable and long lasting? What colour would you choose for longevity in maintenance: light or dark? Would love to hear your insight!
Nice job. Thank you for the information. I'll search your videos for more information on requirements for fire barriers used w/open and closed cell foam insulation (it's a project for my work, which is insurance loss control).
Spray jones!! Da man. :) Part of me wishes i would have just eaten it and done ClosedCell and then openCell. It was completely worth it though.. Even with the leaks i still have. The house is way more temperature stable. A video diving into how to read the data sheets on these would be nice. That way one could compare products. Though i think most foamers only use one product within a vendor. Even though that vendor may offer 3 or 4 versions of OpenCell.
@@SawmillerSmith I've got a steel building with the typical fiberglass insulation that is compressed at every steel framing member. In the winter you can see every place that the insulation is compressed, on the outside of the building. I hate steel frame, metal clad, buildings! Much prefer sandwiched concrete with foam between.
Good point Charan. Typically this material cannot be reused. However I would say the same about alot of other insulation unless you are super careful on its removal. Wool or rigid board could be reused but I would think it is not much. Alot of this insulation would be installed for long periods before it would be removed and at that stage it may have lost a certain % of its performance.
My thinking exactly, if you can hardly use it because its so difficult to cut then its going to landfill along with the wood its attached to isnt it? atleast a large amount of fiberglass is reused, self removable and doesn't block in all your cables and pipe work. It would take a lot to convince me this is the future insulation we want, though I think its what we're going to get.
I did research about spray foam polyurethane. One gigantic major drawback about this product is the pretty extreme health risks if you get the mixture wrong while making the foam. If a mom and pop shop gets the ratio wrong, there is an emission of TCPP which is carcinogenic. This can obviously lead to some extremely dangerous situations where literally, everything you own is covered in this carcinogen, and there's no EPA backing to sue the building's owners. What this means for the consumer? You lose everything inside of your house. Obviously, this product is already in use, especially for pre-fab housing complexes, and typically(unsure though at what %) nothing/low emission occurs. However, for me, the risk ratio is really too high without further testing of the emission byproduct and actual heavy industry regulation for consumer safety.
It is not mixing them wrong. It is a machine that seperates them untill the end of the lines at the gun ! What happens is when you apply to many inches at once that the problems occur. Stop spreading false information.
Maybe you will cover this in the next video but is it still possible to get a bad application? If the conditions are not ideal it will offgas and smell.
Application with spray foam and environmental conditions are vital. If you get this wrong coupled with the mixing process your insulation will not do what you expect it to do.
Are they both wholly not breathable? Mt brother builds houses in Alberta, they have stopped spray foaming exterior walls (unless they also install an air exchanger) because it seals the house to such a degree that keyways and door jams freeze due to the concentrated air movement at those points.
I've never seen this used over here the way it is in the US, but open or closed, I cant see the advantage of locking in all the cable and pipe work in a substance I loath removing. Not that our way of plastering in lighting cables is any easier to deal with, but this just feels so messy and unnecessary. Though I won't lie, I do love watching videos of it being used 😂
are there any studies about particles in air or air quality in general? any toxicity to humans? this looks interesting but it's not common in my part of the world.
Theres off-gassing of dimethoxymethan in closed cell foam, which isnt the worst thing in the world and usually isnt a permanent thing. Depends on the brand and quality of the sprayer. Spraying this stuff should really only be done by a third party, not as a diy project, as it can be rather dangerous and easy to screw up. Any solid particulates that are in the overspray can be vacuumed up, and for the large part there arent any seriously dangerous parts to the process so long as its installed properly and safely.
Post 10 did a fire test of the mixture foam (half closed half open mixture) compared to other insulation types and the foam was highly flammable! Idk if it's a measure of the quality of your foam that yours wasn't, or if it's a problem that is specific to the mixed variety. Either way, after that I don't want foam insulation anwhere in my home that might catch fire. Is it stupid to think about using rock wool just around the outlets and using spray foam elsewhere? XD
How about BUG RETARDENT and SEALING ENVELOPE? I saw a video, (I think it was This Old House), where they sprayed closed cell 1" thick on all outside open air walls. Then came back with Rock Wool over it. Best of both Worlds in My opinion.
@@MikeS29 " How about BUG RETARDENT and SEALING ENVELOPE? " Were NOT covered. ~~ The rest I was agreeing on.. IE: " Best of both Worlds in my opinion. "
Besides the health issues mentioned earlier there are sustainability issues. In a LCA 45% is the energy used over the lifecycle of the building and 45% are the components. Obviously this type of foam increases the sustainability for approx. half the lifecycle. The problem is stick houses have a lifecycle of only 50 years. So timber framed structures are not a good choice for foam. If you intend to help the planet you need to choose other insulating products that can be recycled especially in timber framed houses with short life cycles.
We will have to wait 30 years to know the long term health of what we are building today. I'm really curious if spray foam actually increase the life of a structure. I worry that the push to seal up our houses for energy efficiency agendas is making everything a moisture trap, and is actually bound to decrease the life of built structures. I live in a 1930s bungalow with saw dust insulation and fibreglass bats, and although leaky with air it is at least dry. I've seen houses built in the last ten years that already have rot happening because we have engineered houses that don't breathe and complex mechanical systems that easily fail occupied by residents who don't understand how it all works. I agree that we need to build houses with materials that can be repurposed and recycled at the end of life...but how often does that happen today? 50 years ago it was common to dismantle an old house and repurpose the lumber into something new. Few people are willing to put that work into demolishing a house today, easier to give it the backhoe treatment. OSB and cheap spruce lumber doesn't stand up to a crow bar like old dimensional lumber and shiplap siding once did. Sprayfoam also makes retrofits and recycling of any building materials that much less attractive. It contributes to the wasteful problems of our society in how we design and build, all bound for the landfill in a few decades.
@@ryansilke Sorry Ryan there are peer reviewed papers on vapours from building materials in existence so no need to wait 30 years. Unfortunately the US has no trustworthy authority to dispel the risks. The EPA is just like CDC a corporate lackey!
A couple of comments: I guess you mean new wood houses only last 50 years. My little owner- built bungalow turned 90 this year. And a quick correction. Life span, not cycle. Unless we've discovered a way for houses to reproduce.😉
The research I did had some contradictions to your video. After our house was open cell foamed it actually got louder. My research found that the foam bonds the structure together as one piece making it easier for sounds to travel through walls. It is weird trying to figure out were sounds are coming from in the house since it almost seems like it comes from all directions. I was also told by the installer (who wasn't very good by the way) that 3" inches of open cell does make a vapor barrier. Is that true since your video said open cell could never form a vapor barrier?
If I were to use open cell on the ceiling in my attic would it possible to replace the roof in the future? Will the foam stick or glue to the wooden planks the roof is made of? In case they rip those out and install plywood instead.
I would hope the folks at Ambit gave you some actual popcorn besides the foam samples! I'm not so keen on spray foam myself. If you have to dig out wires or piping later, you've destroyed the insulation there and will have to re-spray. With fiberglass or rock wool, you just pull back the layers, do the work, and then push the material back in place. Also, even if the foams don't support combustion, they will still burn from exposure to open flame from something else burning, releasing toxic smoke.
I just moved into a condo building in Greater Boston that has open air parking on the ground level, so the units start from the 2nd floor up. My condo is on that first level, right above the parking. The ceiling of the parking has a dropped ceiling, and there are fiberglass bats laid on top of the ceiling panels -- but I believe there's a gap between those bats and the actual bottom of the building. Heat is all electric, and my first bill, for December, was over $400. Because it's so expensive, I keep the heat at 68 when I'm home, but the floor is always cold no matter what, even though I had a higher R value underlay installed with new bamboo flooring. Sorry for that long intro to my question -- I want to look into better insulation for the bottom of the building and am wondering if open cell spray foam would be best for this climate and also to accommodate future work that might need to be done?
What climate zone system are you using? In the USDA growing zones 1-4 are very cold areas. The lower those numbers, the lower the seasonal temperatures.
I am planning to insulate interior walls in my house as they currently just have dry wall over the frame and so not very noise proof. What spray foam would be advisable for this application?
Really interesting i was looking for this comparisson, i will need it this spring. What do you think about the prices of the construction materials, will they go down at some point or it is ireversible and they allways be the same or more expensive? Maybe a video about some predictions? Thank you.
Can you do a video on injection foam insulation (one example is RetroFoam)? There is a lot of conflicting information out there and I am trying to decide if it is worth it.
Hi Belinda Thanks for another great vid. I have a question re vapor barriers. If you flash and Batt, would you need a vapor barrier outside your external racking sheathing or would this create a vapor trap. Based in Socal thanks Cladding/Vapor barrier/Ply wood/Closed cell/Rockwool/drywall
Hello, I enjoy your videos, good job! I have a question about your use of the phrase "not fire resistant" at 7:13min. I would have thought, after watching your demo, that the fact that the product did not support fire after the flame was removed would be the definition of "fire resistant"? Where a Fire Proof product would be expected to not be consumed even with the flame applied.
Belinda - Can I spray a closed cell foam directly onto a natural slate roof in order to improve the structural integrity and to provide and airtight structure - Im concerned that the timbers enclosed in the foam will rot due to lack of air movement to provide ventilation to the timbers The underside of the rafters will be exposes in the attic however the battens will be foamed over Thank you
It might be ok but if not it’ll be a bear to fix. Plus don’t you want to know if the wood is falling apart? Just reroof the areas that need attention section by section
Gent who was taking construction classes made mention of spray foam used as the primary structural component of a wall (single story, mind), with essentially coverings to avoid UV degradation/beautification. Air tight envelope and insane R values. It has far more uses than insulation alone. I even find myself using spray foam to create ad hoc brackets when access is limited and I don't care how it looks (it sticks to about everything).
Between mostly this channel, and the Build Show (Matt Risinger), talking about the modern building science, I have really slowed down on my updating/remodeling of my current home. So many things I just did not know that I am now learning. Thanks for the remodel/updating will be the better for it (I am thinking). Thanks... 👍
What I learned while doing my reno was "best practice" is determined on local conditions.
Be prepared to make mistakes.
Thanks, Gerard!
I've watched a lot of Matt's videos as well along with this channel to learn more about building science and materials. We ended up doing open cell foam but really wish I woukd have done rockwool.
I too have learned a lot from Matt and Belinda. I enjoy her tests and comparisons since they help me decide which of similar materials would be better for my construction.
However, - and this is a BIG problem - you will have a hard time finding engineers who are up on modern [meaning 'the latest'] materials and installations, especially at the local building authority. Younger engineers may be more amenable to working with new stuff, but most of the older engineers simply will not take the trouble to learn about something like ZIP wall systems or air intrusion mitigation. I recommend very strongly that one study the latest codes IBC, UBC very carefully so that you can prove to the plan reviewer that you actually ARE meeting codes.
I live in climate zone 5 at 7500 ft in the mountains near Las Vegas. I have selected fireproof or fire-resistant materials for the outside of the house, so Belinda's observations about the susceptibility of either open or closed cell foam are a concern. However, since the thermal engineer specified R 46 for the roof, I will go with closed cell. It's like living in a Coleman cooler. No air gets in.And the entire outside is either metal, Hardie siding or masonry with Rockwool commercial insulation over the exterior sheeting.
Hi Belinda, as someone who has zero to do with construction in their day to day life I just wanted to thank you for your great videos! They're so interesting and informative, even for someone who has no knowledge on these topics, and they helped me connect more with my dad who's a carpenter. He now specializes in Windows and was so surprised I knew about things like R values and vapor permeability.
Thanks!!
Holy hell, I'm an energy advisor in canada and just found your channel. I will be watching so many more videos it is such thorough information! Thanks :)
Haven’t seen a video you’ve put out I’ve disliked. Very informative and with facts that don’t go over our heads. Thank you
Thanks, David!!
I guess I can't use the word NEVER anymore with regard to leaving comments or reviews but felt the need to let you know that you do an exceptional job of educating and explaining whatever subject your speaking about. Excellent excellent explanation of open and closed cell spray foam. I was having an argument with a buddy as to what type of foam we had been handling on one of our job sites. I said it was a closed cell type and he insisted it was open cell. I honestly didn't know why I thought it was "closed" and he couldn't explain why he believed it was open cell. After much "googling" and online research it wasn't until we came across your thorough explanation of the properties of each that I was ultimately determined to be correct in that we were handling a closed cell variety; which as luck would have it meant that i got to collect the hundred $$ which my buddy and I had wagered. Every other video left some doubt as to which was which..... Thank you for your hard work and excellent review!! You've got a great channel... Keep up the good work!!
I was the Super on a job replacing the polyurethane foam roof cover on the Wedway People Mover in Disney World in Florida in the early '80s. We had a fantastic spray applicator that had worked in Alaska insulating oil pipes and tanks, he could lay down a nearly flat uniform layer of foam on the sheet metal that few could match. One drawback was the super fine "dust" residue that sailed with the breeze that got on everything. I was standing on the ground watching the operation with one of Disney's Supers and from my angle could see a light dusting on his sunglasses, I don't think he noticed, the dusting would erode away with UV from the sun and washing but it was a problem when we were applying foam 25' up on a roof with thousands of "guests" wondering about. I would imagine that that problem has been eliminated by now.
Thanks for your great videos!
We used spray foam on our last remodel. The cost is the only big draw back personally. But the result is impressive. 1400sqft 1940s single story heated comfortably with just a cheap space heater.
We have closed cell foam in our house. We used it in the LID (ceiling drywall) and the outside walls. The attic is not sealed. Good news, when we had a leak in our roof the incoming water pooled on top of the insulated ceiling (water tight from the closed cell foam). Plus the other benefit, we were able to walk in the attic with no issues since the closed cell spay foam is so rigid. We used rock wool in the interior walls to dampen sound and help with fire slow down (rock wool in downstairs ceiling also). Since the house is so air tight we did install an HRV. This is really important to keep the air quality good. I really like the closed cell foam. No drafts, walls are not cold to the touch (and I live in northern Idaho!). We also have triple pain windows and well insulated doors. Really keeps the heating bill down!
How did you end up finding the leak? Most people almost never go in attic.
??
Thats thing about closed on the roof deck.. It will rot the deck and if left long enough the joists.
Opencell will drip to drywall and damage interior.
Really a house should have yearly inspections.
@@turboflush I heard drips hitting the ceiling. Since this was a new build we were looking for issues. Sure enough we saw puddles over the closed cell. Since every
The closed cell foam is great if you wanna build something like a DIY lightweight truck bed camper. The foam adds a lot of strength so you don't need to build a large heavy frame or walls. It's also protects from leaks and moisture wood rot so you could use some cheaper wood for the frame.
I work for a small HVAC contractor near DFW and spray foam insulation is one of the services we offer. It's cool to learn a bit more about the materials science behind it
What’s even cooler is the fact that you chose to learn a little bit more! Awesome!
Off-gasing is one issue to consider. It does take a while (like days or even weeks) for the fumes to disperse. There's a reason the installers wear hazmat suits when spraying it on. We did a lot of spray foam in our new build house, but had to air out the house continually with fans for days. However it is really good stuff for sound proofing and insulation purposes.
Off gas. On most foams happen within 10 seconds of spraying. There may be a small.amount trapped on a house for a short period but if well ventilated, all gasses should be gone within an hr or less.
From what I have watched on other channels, one of the biggest reasons for all the gear the spray installers wear is because the wet product sticks to EVERYTHING, including clothes, hair, and skin, and very hard to remove from anything fibrous.
They wear the suits to keep it off their skin and out of pores -- as well as out of the lungs. If a couple drops get up the nose or in the lungs. If they grow either 40x or 100x their wet volume -- they make a blowfish look skinny.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Yes you are correct that is why we wear the suits !
Amazing video! Super thorough and objective. We saw so many conflicting views on moisture but the experiment in this video answered it perfectly. Thank you!
I know the bare minimum about construction. I only know what I’ve heard from my father. I find your videos so interesting. I’m learning about things I’d never thought I’d ever think to learn about. You’ve made construction interesting to me. Thank you!
I had never thought about the good reason to have water permeable insulation under the roof. That was an eye opener, thank you.
I love your curiosity and thoroughness. If you were a professor you’d quickly become my favorite class, even if it was math.
Great video! Spray foam is expensive! We are installing foam sheets over our 2×4 studs to create a thermal break.
@Bruno Desrosiers We are in southern Arizona.
just bought a house and these videos on insulation are extremely helpful! It definitely helps me be a more informed consumer.
Thank you for the in-depth dive into all the factors of building insulation types.
I love the way that foam expands so quickly but doesn't drip off the ceiling.
I love the way you lay out the facts. You make it easy to know the facts. Thanks
Hi Belinda My home got flooded by hurricane Ian. You seem to have a chemistry background like myself. Your information here was very helpful. Thank you so much
this was awesome i spent almost an hour trying to figure out if i should go with open or closed in a tiny home you made it very clear thank you
I’m new to your channel. Great information, your video on fiberglass and Rockwool insulation showed up in my feeds, I’m not disappointed. You know your stuff. From personal experience when insulating a basement, closed cell spray foam is worth ever penny, and final costs are not much different than Rockwool. And with the new low or so called zero VOC foams, the fact that closed cell is it’s own vapor barrier and has almost zero mold issues, insulating with foam is a no brainer. Will be looking forward to more of your videos, well done. 👍
In your followup video, please address the creation of fomaldahyde in your lungs when you breathe in the gasses that are created during spray application. The vapors themselves are less toxic before our lungs get involved and modify the compounds. Spray foam is a very complex topic. Thanks for taking it on. It should give you content for many in depth videos. I appreciate the level of detail you achieve.
Excellent vid as always! One sidenote, for high humid areas SE US mostly, where average humidity is higher than ashra standards, vapor closed is a better option. Yes I know highly debated topic but if build properly, according dept of energy, the excess humidity will be released through other means such as HVAC systems and should be designed that way. Hope I'm not rocking the boat but I'm sure some will disagree as I use to disagree before intensely studying the complicated physics with water vapor dynamics. TY again for the great vid!!!
Thanks for bringing this up. It's a very important topic. I'll add it in my next video.
@@BelindaCarr Nice! TY! It's greatly greatly misunderstood especially among inspectors in these areas who will always say vent no matter what. That's because some less knowledgeable builders make material mistakes causing buildings to rot. There is a ton of physics behind this. Dr. Joe Lstiburek writes for Dept of Energy on the physics. However in some of his papers and vids he does not make the distinction between high humid regions unless perhaps you pay him as a consultant. 😂
Yo, that was a top notch video😮 I love how you went into the different climate zones and said why would be good to use it for homes in different areas because in general you read that the close sell is what’s good for insulating homes but it all depends on the direction of the heat exchange
This is a good first intro to spray foam insulation - I used closed cell foam for my metal-sided shop. I heat 1600 sq feet with a singe 1,500 watt heater - SO much better than fiberglass. BTW - glad to learn that water is not a chemical (sorry, I couldn't resist)
Good info. Surprised there were no masks used in the labs. I look forward to you talking about the health and environmental impacts with it being left out of this video. In my eyes those are big drawbacks of foam along with its permanence. I would have addressed those specific cons more in this introduction of the material.
I loved this video as always (although I'm not sure why I like them), but I was also a little disappointed when the only environmental impact she mentioned was CO2 contribution. This is plastic and gets shaved and crumbles into tiny particles. The amount of microplastics introduced into the local environment during demolition must be tremendous. I'll look forward to that in the next video.
Working on it guys! I'm going to release it soon.
I’m new to this channel, she knows her stuff. As for some of your concerns about spray foam you may want to look at the Spray Jones channel. He is in the business of spray foam and does a really great job explaining its use and value. Also the new low or so call zero VOC type foams are incredible. I do believe one of the more recent Home Builder Show with Matt Resigner goes into detail about it. I started out was going to do a flash and bat with my basement finish, cost was a factor. But after watching Spray Jones videos I went with closed cell foam only in the walls, higher performance, it is it’s own moisture barrier and no risk of the foam retaining moisture or becoming a breeding ground for mold. Have not regretted it. In the end the cost was not much high than using Rockwool insulation. And at nearly three times the insulation value, a huge savings on heating costs. All things to consider. Hope this helps.
@@Tatsuji_Tatchan most people who build homes do not take into account what the consequences of their building decisions will be.when i demolish a standard stick built home and am required to bring the material to a recycling facility there is a large amount of material that can be burned, composted, or otherwise used beneficially. If I were to demolish a house with closed cell foam stuck to every wood surface it would render it unusable and destined for the landfill.
@@lightningdemolition1964 I can see your point, but the mindset is rather like deciding not to have a child because eventually, some day, they will die and need to be buried or burned.
Belinda thank you for sharing this knowledge and skills to learn about R value insulation Most valuable in building industry
Good point on the moisture permeability. Open cell foam on the inside of a panel in cold weather can result in rot, mildew, or rust. This can be an issue in insulating vehicles, metal and wood buildings.
Thank you for putting this together Belinda! The only info out there is biased and you’re covering info that hasn’t been before. Much appreciated. Big fan.
Request: Can you please explain the different application between Sealant Foam spray and Closed-Cell Foam spray?
Will put that on the list! Thanks, Rey.
There are lots of experts showing the differences on RUclips.
@@BS25999, experts or entrepreneurs?
Matt Risinger has a video about low VOC spray foam and air quality tests. Also that flash and batt process using a mineral wool insulation
Nice video. We are finalizing our remodel and opted to use foam insulation for the attic and cantilever sections of the second floor while using traditional fiberglass insulation on the walls to save money. While I was very strongly in favor of going with closed cell foam due to the strength and waterproof properties, I wasn't able to due to cost considerations and have open cell foam in the attic/cantilever. The fact that water damage (indicating a leak) can be seen was a plus that I was not aware of. I recommend in the next video you cover the need to add a fireproofing paint coating for certain spaces.
Worked in a large shed that was sprayed with closed cell spray foam many years earlier. It was peeling away from the roof and was becoming brittle... and it never achieved the cooling effects claimed. And when electricians needed to fix something they had to dig it all away to fix/replace cables.
Not enough ppl talk about how using purely spray foam only complicates remodeling and fishing electrical wires, IMO that’s a huge downsize. I recognize that the vapor barrier is a great attribute, therefore IMO the best technique is to use just 1-2” of closed cell and then a blow in cellulose or rockwool product
Doesn't that put the vapor barrier on the wrong side?
The vapor barrier with closed cell insulation is a great option. No need to blow in insulation if you use the correct thickness polyiso. You could also install polyiso between your studs.
@@larryschweitzer4904 Not necessarily. It will depend on the climate. You need to calculate the dewpoint in the wall based on the temperature drop gradient through the assembly. If the dewpoint is in the foam, or preferably on the outside of the foam, you are safe. This may well be the case if you have used a continuous insulation on the outside of the stud. The cellulose or rockwool will dry to the inside, as long as you do not double your membrane by installing poly under the drywall (building code officials in my area tend to have some problems understanding this). This situation creates a condition similar to a diaper where you end up with moisture trapped between the layers.
Always impressed with your videos. I'm doing several things with spray foams right now, so this was very timely.
I love your accent and your speech is impeccable!!!!
Just a question , I have heard stories of the chemicals being put together wrong by the installation companies causing toxic issues, does it still happen or have they made it more foolproof ? Love your channel & the way you honestly describe things ..
Thank you for including data with the video. It would be interesting to me if you expanded the discussion about hybrid systems (e.g. closed cell + Rockwool, fiberglass, or blown insulation, etc.) in a future video.
I literally was headed to RUclips to look up insulation, scary. Great video
About the foam insulation.What about termite entrance into a structure through the foam ?
7:05 Hmmm interesting Point of View... will keep this in mind next time I encounter this problem!
Very thorough and well paced!
Thanks for this video, I am still trying to decide on spray foam fiberglass or rock wool insulation for my house. Now time to ponder .
I love your husband's jokes, he's awesome, tell ol' jimmy I sent him a hug. Interesting video by the way.
Also we’re choosing finishings for a new apartment and we’re wondering what’s the difference between engendered hardwood, real hardwood and the laminate flooring. What are the pros and cons? What is more sustainable and long lasting? What colour would you choose for longevity in maintenance: light or dark? Would love to hear your insight!
Always great content, thank you!
Belinda for president!!
Excellent information, thanks! I found out a lot of new insulation info which will definitely be handy later on.
Nice job. Thank you for the information. I'll search your videos for more information on requirements for fire barriers used w/open and closed cell foam insulation (it's a project for my work, which is insurance loss control).
Spray jones!! Da man. :)
Part of me wishes i would have just eaten it and done ClosedCell and then openCell.
It was completely worth it though.. Even with the leaks i still have. The house is way more temperature stable.
A video diving into how to read the data sheets on these would be nice. That way one could compare products. Though i think most foamers only use one product within a vendor. Even though that vendor may offer 3 or 4 versions of OpenCell.
Spray foam sprayed between the frame doesn't stop heat loss from the wood. When it's cold out you can see the framing lumber from the heat loss.
True of any insulation!
@@larryschweitzer4904this explains why you can see the fram lumber afet spray foaming ruclips.net/video/-rDJF6OYkfc/видео.html
@@SawmillerSmith I've got a steel building with the typical fiberglass insulation that is compressed at every steel framing member. In the winter you can see every place that the insulation is compressed, on the outside of the building. I hate steel frame, metal clad, buildings! Much prefer sandwiched concrete with foam between.
Thanks again Belinda! What about reuseability? it seems to me both foams are landfill. How about the other kinds of insulation material?
Good point Charan. Typically this material cannot be reused. However I would say the same about alot of other insulation unless you are super careful on its removal. Wool or rigid board could be reused but I would think it is not much. Alot of this insulation would be installed for long periods before it would be removed and at that stage it may have lost a certain % of its performance.
I will talk about it in the next video. I had to cut it into 2 videos because there's SO much to discuss
My thinking exactly, if you can hardly use it because its so difficult to cut then its going to landfill along with the wood its attached to isnt it? atleast a large amount of fiberglass is reused, self removable and doesn't block in all your cables and pipe work. It would take a lot to convince me this is the future insulation we want, though I think its what we're going to get.
I did research about spray foam polyurethane. One gigantic major drawback about this product is the pretty extreme health risks if you get the mixture wrong while making the foam. If a mom and pop shop gets the ratio wrong, there is an emission of TCPP which is carcinogenic. This can obviously lead to some extremely dangerous situations where literally, everything you own is covered in this carcinogen, and there's no EPA backing to sue the building's owners. What this means for the consumer? You lose everything inside of your house.
Obviously, this product is already in use, especially for pre-fab housing complexes, and typically(unsure though at what %) nothing/low emission occurs. However, for me, the risk ratio is really too high without further testing of the emission byproduct and actual heavy industry regulation for consumer safety.
It is not mixing them wrong. It is a machine that seperates them untill the end of the lines at the gun ! What happens is when you apply to many inches at once that the problems occur. Stop spreading false information.
Great video with lots of information
Hi Belinda, I quite enjoy your videos and would love if you could include metric equivalent values in the future.
Thanks for the quality content.
Oh shoot, I forgot to do that for this video. Thanks for the reminder!
Great video very informative.
Maybe you will cover this in the next video but is it still possible to get a bad application? If the conditions are not ideal it will offgas and smell.
Application with spray foam and environmental conditions are vital. If you get this wrong coupled with the mixing process your insulation will not do what you expect it to do.
Great video. Thanks for the info!
As always. Great video.
Very informative, thank you!
Excellent.
Are they both wholly not breathable? Mt brother builds houses in Alberta, they have stopped spray foaming exterior walls (unless they also install an air exchanger) because it seals the house to such a degree that keyways and door jams freeze due to the concentrated air movement at those points.
1:38 JEZZ! That is one big POPCORN!🤩🤩
Which theater serves that? 😁😁😁
a pro/con review of steel framing and steel prefab housing would be nice.
such a great and educational video Belinda, thank You!
I wonder which would be best in a Van Life conversion build?
Any ideas on benefits of graphene additives in Foam concrete blocks as a building material?
If possible miss, can you please do a video on HEMPcrete
She did an introduction: ruclips.net/video/fwiLdmvUJ3E/видео.html
Thanks for the information
Great content very informative 👍🏻🇭🇲
I've never seen this used over here the way it is in the US, but open or closed, I cant see the advantage of locking in all the cable and pipe work in a substance I loath removing. Not that our way of plastering in lighting cables is any easier to deal with, but this just feels so messy and unnecessary.
Though I won't lie, I do love watching videos of it being used 😂
are there any studies about particles in air or air quality in general? any toxicity to humans? this looks interesting but it's not common in my part of the world.
Theres off-gassing of dimethoxymethan in closed cell foam, which isnt the worst thing in the world and usually isnt a permanent thing. Depends on the brand and quality of the sprayer. Spraying this stuff should really only be done by a third party, not as a diy project, as it can be rather dangerous and easy to screw up. Any solid particulates that are in the overspray can be vacuumed up, and for the large part there arent any seriously dangerous parts to the process so long as its installed properly and safely.
Post 10 did a fire test of the mixture foam (half closed half open mixture) compared to other insulation types and the foam was highly flammable! Idk if it's a measure of the quality of your foam that yours wasn't, or if it's a problem that is specific to the mixed variety. Either way, after that I don't want foam insulation anwhere in my home that might catch fire. Is it stupid to think about using rock wool just around the outlets and using spray foam elsewhere? XD
How about BUG RETARDENT and SEALING ENVELOPE? I saw a video, (I think it was This Old House), where they sprayed closed cell 1" thick on all outside open air walls. Then came back with Rock Wool over it. Best of both Worlds in My opinion.
She covers this @10:34
@@MikeS29 " How about BUG RETARDENT and SEALING ENVELOPE? " Were NOT covered. ~~ The rest I was agreeing on.. IE: " Best of both Worlds in my opinion. "
@@SteveP-vm1uc my mistake!
@@MikeS29 No problem.. ;)
Besides the health issues mentioned earlier there are sustainability issues. In a LCA 45% is the energy used over the lifecycle of the building and 45% are the components. Obviously this type of foam increases the sustainability for approx. half the lifecycle. The problem is stick houses have a lifecycle of only 50 years. So timber framed structures are not a good choice for foam. If you intend to help the planet you need to choose other insulating products that can be recycled especially in timber framed houses with short life cycles.
Very insightful comment. Are you in the construction or design biz? I’d like to follow what you do regardless
We will have to wait 30 years to know the long term health of what we are building today. I'm really curious if spray foam actually increase the life of a structure. I worry that the push to seal up our houses for energy efficiency agendas is making everything a moisture trap, and is actually bound to decrease the life of built structures. I live in a 1930s bungalow with saw dust insulation and fibreglass bats, and although leaky with air it is at least dry. I've seen houses built in the last ten years that already have rot happening because we have engineered houses that don't breathe and complex mechanical systems that easily fail occupied by residents who don't understand how it all works.
I agree that we need to build houses with materials that can be repurposed and recycled at the end of life...but how often does that happen today? 50 years ago it was common to dismantle an old house and repurpose the lumber into something new. Few people are willing to put that work into demolishing a house today, easier to give it the backhoe treatment. OSB and cheap spruce lumber doesn't stand up to a crow bar like old dimensional lumber and shiplap siding once did.
Sprayfoam also makes retrofits and recycling of any building materials that much less attractive. It contributes to the wasteful problems of our society in how we design and build, all bound for the landfill in a few decades.
@@ryansilke Sorry Ryan there are peer reviewed papers on vapours from building materials in existence so no need to wait 30 years. Unfortunately the US has no trustworthy authority to dispel the risks. The EPA is just like CDC a corporate lackey!
@@aayotechnology Yes in the construction industry over 50 years currently working with sustainable industrialised Lean BIM systems.
A couple of comments: I guess you mean new wood houses only last 50 years. My little owner- built bungalow turned 90 this year.
And a quick correction. Life span, not cycle. Unless we've discovered a way for houses to reproduce.😉
Thank you so much!
Great video!
The research I did had some contradictions to your video. After our house was open cell foamed it actually got louder. My research found that the foam bonds the structure together as one piece making it easier for sounds to travel through walls. It is weird trying to figure out were sounds are coming from in the house since it almost seems like it comes from all directions.
I was also told by the installer (who wasn't very good by the way) that 3" inches of open cell does make a vapor barrier. Is that true since your video said open cell could never form a vapor barrier?
If I were to use open cell on the ceiling in my attic would it possible to replace the roof in the future? Will the foam stick or glue to the wooden planks the roof is made of? In case they rip those out and install plywood instead.
I would hope the folks at Ambit gave you some actual popcorn besides the foam samples!
I'm not so keen on spray foam myself. If you have to dig out wires or piping later, you've destroyed the insulation there and will have to re-spray. With fiberglass or rock wool, you just pull back the layers, do the work, and then push the material back in place. Also, even if the foams don't support combustion, they will still burn from exposure to open flame from something else burning, releasing toxic smoke.
Hi, Belinda, i want to request you to make video on Nitrile and EPDM Foam insulations.
I just moved into a condo building in Greater Boston that has open air parking on the ground level, so the units start from the 2nd floor up. My condo is on that first level, right above the parking. The ceiling of the parking has a dropped ceiling, and there are fiberglass bats laid on top of the ceiling panels -- but I believe there's a gap between those bats and the actual bottom of the building. Heat is all electric, and my first bill, for December, was over $400. Because it's so expensive, I keep the heat at 68 when I'm home, but the floor is always cold no matter what, even though I had a higher R value underlay installed with new bamboo flooring. Sorry for that long intro to my question -- I want to look into better insulation for the bottom of the building and am wondering if open cell spray foam would be best for this climate and also to accommodate future work that might need to be done?
What climate zone system are you using? In the USDA growing zones 1-4 are very cold areas. The lower those numbers, the lower the seasonal temperatures.
which would you use in camper van walls?
Would you recommend open cell for a metal shed 10x14 if I use a vapor barrier? I’m in Zone 2
I have been looking at a new form of building with aircrete. Can you give us a good opinion on this product....strength,
R value, etc.
I am planning to insulate interior walls in my house as they currently just have dry wall over the frame and so not very noise proof. What spray foam would be advisable for this application?
Really interesting i was looking for this comparisson, i will need it this spring. What do you think about the prices of the construction materials, will they go down at some point or it is ireversible and they allways be the same or more expensive? Maybe a video about some predictions? Thank you.
Can you do a video on injection foam insulation (one example is RetroFoam)? There is a lot of conflicting information out there and I am trying to decide if it is worth it.
How do you spray foam a finish attic ceiling
which one is best for pontoon floats?
Closed on the outside and open on the inside of the wall il will be a good option?
Hi Belinda
Thanks for another great vid. I have a question re vapor barriers. If you flash and Batt, would you need a vapor barrier outside your external racking sheathing or would this create a vapor trap. Based in Socal
thanks
Cladding/Vapor barrier/Ply wood/Closed cell/Rockwool/drywall
is this stuff safe for van builds and tiny homes .. how can I ensure it is fully cured before I move in ?? sounds like I must cover it with a wall?
Hello, I enjoy your videos, good job! I have a question about your use of the phrase "not fire resistant" at 7:13min. I would have thought, after watching your demo, that the fact that the product did not support fire after the flame was removed would be the definition of "fire resistant"? Where a Fire Proof product would be expected to not be consumed even with the flame applied.
Hp10 knows her 😊
Belinda - Can I spray a closed cell foam directly onto a natural slate roof in order to improve the structural integrity and to provide and airtight structure - Im concerned that the timbers enclosed in the foam will rot due to lack of air movement to provide ventilation to the timbers
The underside of the rafters will be exposes in the attic however the battens will be foamed over
Thank you
It might be ok but if not it’ll be a bear to fix. Plus don’t you want to know if the wood is falling apart? Just reroof the areas that need attention section by section
Do a mold remediation video
Gent who was taking construction classes made mention of spray foam used as the primary structural component of a wall (single story, mind), with essentially coverings to avoid UV degradation/beautification. Air tight envelope and insane R values. It has far more uses than insulation alone.
I even find myself using spray foam to create ad hoc brackets when access is limited and I don't care how it looks (it sticks to about everything).
Hi mam..How to determine closed cell content(%) in rigid Foam?
You're awesome...