big challenge is cost. most of which is labor. replacing one or two cell modules may be cost prohibited when factoring in the price market of the car. reselling battery, motor, and other parts to used market may be more attractive than actually having to 'fix' your car by a shop like this. the other option is DIY; then labor is your own. this might be interesting; one caveat though is not getting electrocuted or securing equipment for getting in and out the battery ....o_0
@@cdbuiles so we could either have market of swap them out. It does not take long to pull the battery out the nissan leaf. Or have them repaired. If this was ICE and needed work similar thing would be done
@@cdbuiles Just saw a video about new modules for the Leaf for only $4000 dollars. Search for: "CATL battery 12S1P 147ah battery module for Nissan Leaf car replacement"
That can be done now. Replacing a high milage pack with a low milage pack for instance cost very little. The old pack is still worth nearly as much as the good one, so it is only the cost of labour and the diference in KWh capacity. I am about to get the pack on my mitsubishi phev changed. St 304,600 miles the old one is a bit knackered now.
This video is way more interesting then him driving around some luxury EV that almost nobody can afford. I am also amazed at how well these guys speak English when it clearly isn’t their mother tongue.
the english really depends on the country and the school system you have there. in western/northern europe almost everyone speaks pretty good english. on the other hand, go south america for example and you will be completely lost. hardly anyone speaks any english, even if they also learned it for years in school 🤷🏻♂️
Nice interview Bjorn, you are improving. You had a good cadence with your subject and had some go to stuff you wanted to cover as a part of it. Well done.
7:00 Passive cooling is what is shown. The heat leaks through the shell. A duct and a fan would be active cooling. If they would have made a air duct, they would have also added a fan. = active air cooling....
8:30 temperature sensors are also resistors, variable resistors. Their resistance changes with temperature and thats how system knows what the temperature is. Replacing them with standard resistors would "lie" some temperature to BMS. And then you can kill your battery when it's hot. And maybe yourself, if it gets extreme and bursts.
It sounds like a very good way to start a battery fire if you tried to quick charge in the summer, car would not know cell temperature >50C so risk of serious damage or thermal runaway.
It is good to see that there are people who can keep the aging part of the electric car fleet going. And the fact that it is here in Lier is just fantastic!
7:05 the passive cooling is the heating up of the whole pack walls and radiating it out :) If you have air channel and something forcing air through - then it's already active. There's also few cm cap between pack and body above, where air passes through. (and a lot of dirt collects over time)
I think air cooling is not an option due to dust collection. If you want to prevent this, a filter is need, needing maintenance. Liquid cooling would be the better possibility but is a challenge doe to stack dimensions. It might work, when you take out 1 pack in the long pile, thus freeing up space. This is a major undertaking and will cost a lot.
@@Fredric169 The triplets have air cooling through a air filter. Put a problem with air cooling is that some of the cells gets good cooling, while the other are hot. I have observed a over 20°C difference between the cells.
@@MichaelEricMenk thx for your reply. Your result doesn‘t surprise me at all, as air has a much lower heat capacity vs liquid. Unfortunately liquid requires an additional structure for cooling.
no @@Hans-gb4mv , leaf and env somehow have different batteries. They are making liquid cooled env200 batteries since 2014 or something, but leaf carries on being passive nothing, radiation, including today's 62kwh packs.
Extremely interesting video. Many thx. I drive a Leaf as well. It’s a 2018 Model with 40 kWh. Would not recommend to take out the temp sensors. W/o you may get hot far beyond 60 deg C during charging o reduce their remaining lifetime quite significantly. In a worst case scenario, the car may start burning. To my knowledge, the BMS uses temperature as well to control the max current. If you do it, I personally would charge the car only with AC as batteries don’t get so hot. I’m a bit surprised about the location of the temperature sensors. They are suboptimal. Would place at least one in the middle of the log stack. Looking forward to your next video, how much you could improve the stack. Goid luck
This is a really helpful video for all people looking for a second hand leaf, thank you for the good work and sharing that professional and wide knowledge. I wish this had came out a year ago, becase I would have saved a lot of time on internet forums, videos and articles. Just to give some extra info, for europe: the leafs before 2013 with light interior had that charger on the trunk and were made in Japan. All those batteries were 24 kWh, but not the most reliable. On 2013 and next models, interior was gray and no charger volume on the trunk. Starting on that year model, cars were made in Sunderland (UK) for european market. Those 24kWh batteries were more reliable than before. Also, heat pump was introduced, but not sure if those were standard or an option. There is a way to know if it's fitted based on the piping on the left area under the hood. Then, 2016 model had some minor changes and an optional 30 kWh battery. Same volume, different cell chemistry and layout. I finally got one of those at a good price. That 30 kWh battery is usually not more robust than the post-2013 24 kWh battery, but there are 2 important points to evaluate: First -> Being a bigger battery, even with lower SOH, more capacity is usually left. Second -> Nissan usually offered an 8 years warranty for battery SOH on those 30 kWh models. So, even a 2016 car would have battery warranty up to 2024. There are some conditions on that warranty, but it's a good backup. For anyone out there looking for one, this is important info. I ran though some scammers on my search, including 2012 models sold as post-2013 and cars from really hot weather areas here in Spain that had suspiciously high SOH, but really low estimated range even in eco mode. I have no proof but also no doubt that those SOH were recently reseted and still not showed real SOH. Also, many people is not aware of these generarion changes and try to sell an older and degradated battery car for a high price. For now, I'm very happy with this really ugly car. It's really more usable than I expected, so even when I had done my math to park the diesel car and use it only on long highway trips while saving money by doing 10-12 K commute km per year, the leaf is already over 20 K last year. It's not a great EV nowadays, but it's OK for its time and the second hand prices.
Best content for the audience to understand what the future of our battery might have to deal with, hopefully these bad cells are identified before the battery is out of warranty. Keeping Elbikmek in my toolset of resource! Good work guys!
Some 2013 and newer US Leafs has light interior, and you find a lot of them even in Norway. Leafs that are produced in EU, does not have light interior. 2011 and 2012 is produced in Japan, like this one, and the vin starts with J, and those have light interior. The Leafs produced in USA starts with 1, and the Leafs produced in UK starts with S.
I bought in Sweden december 2016new 30 kWh. Been runni ng 138 000km and I 10 bars of SOH today. Kan drive maximum 120km light fort with out heater or AC on summering tyres. The car have benen running perfekt as famely car but start to think what to do in future. Chademo plugg are also to be a negative thing in future. But I am amazed about the quality nissan build in to this car.😊
I would love to see what a fan would do in terms of charging and power. The only problem i could see is that you have to pull cool air in from some place that doesn't allow water in as well.
I really like you ask all the interesting DIY stuff like active cooling with fans etc. I would really appreciate if you can make this experiment if you buy this Leaf and go really in depth how to do it. Would be very interesting for me to see the benefit, if any. I would imagine Nissan tried this and for some reason decided not to do it, maybe because the benefit was so small but we will never know unless somebody like you actually does it. Thanks for the great content
Just saw a video about new modules for the Leaf for only $4000 dollars. Search for: "CATL battery 12S1P 147ah battery module for Nissan Leaf car replacement"
The cost of the repair is a SEAL, compated to germany. My charger was "broken" and it is soooooo difficult to get it fixed. bjorn is in ev paradise and doesn't recognize it anymore ;-)
According to this car manufacturers should make battery remove fast and easy also opening pack easy then it would be much cheaper to repair. Not like Tesla is planning to put some foam into packs and making them almost impossible to repair that would affect to insurance bill in future if car is expensive to repair.
I'm afraid Tesla's strategy going forward is bad battery = new car. This is why their next generation platform is designed to be built as quickly and cheaply as possible.
Looking forward to following this project, to see this vehicle become almost like new again. Please detail it😁🙏 looked like one of the last cells also was pretty bad. Why not change that one as well?
Nice video as always, but the idea of replacing the temperature sensors with a resistor to lie to the BMS, should be criminal. If the battery heats up, and the charge or discharge current keeps going on, can cause it to catch fire or explode. I think it is bad that it was even suggested. There is already a big amount of FUD provided by the anti repair camp, and the idea that some one could make this kind of modification to a pack will scare even more people. Not good if you are pushing for reparability of these units like you are showing here.
I always wondered whether just removing the cell and bridging it instead would be viable. You'd essentially get slightly lower overall pack voltage and also proportionally less capacity, but such intervention could make sense in cases where sourcing replacement cells would be difficult. If the BMS could be made to go along with it, that is.
I like this idea. But would you need a couple of built in empty slots where healthy cells/modules could be easily slided in from the outside as one or two old ones are disconnected for the voltage to stay the same. Then a couple of fresh modules could be added with ease without the need of this extensive costly battery surgery.
12:00 1000 euros for module replacement, oh my, but it is of course a lot of work. It is a lot less work to put in a whole new 30kwh battery. For maybe around 5000 euros, and sell old for battery storage for ~2000 eur.
@Ben Baselet From a company in Portland, OR - 24kWh can be upgraded to 30 or 40kWh packs, not beyond. As I recall, their price $4500US to go from 24 to used 30kWh.
@@mikecarter2737 just to keep information accurate here, you can put any leaf battery on old leafs, up to 62kwh. Just needs a little upgrade on the mounts and recommended to put stronger springs in too, if you go with 62kwh. And if a layman reads this - no this does not mean you can just pop old off and slam new one in, there is nuance, depending on the year model, some wire adapter and or canbridge for translating the new batt to old car.
sure thing @@mikecarter2737 . Keep in mind that you can sell your used one for quite a bit of money so dont settle for bad deal. 100€ per remaining kwh easily. And if you want to see some steps what battery change or repair took then i've got some low quality videos on channel too. To be a bit more informed when you get to buying the service :)
I hate to say that you are totally wrong. I had a 2012 Leaf for 10 years; it was a great car until the battery was very much degraded. Then I bought the 2016 model; OMG, the quality of workmanship is not there at all. They have removed so many things that we really enjoyed; the electronic parking brake was awesome. Driving two cars, driving Toyota versus Mercedes differences. The range was 150km on the 2016 Leaf; we could not forget the 2012 Leaf. No one talks about this, but 2012 is the best model Nissan Leaf ever produced. Then we found the 2012 Leaf; it was purchased very cheaply and had a 40KW battery. This car is a legend. If you are looking for a reliable car , get a 2012 Leaf and put 40KW battery or 62 KW. Then you are all set.
Very cool vid. Where to start? With the CityEL parked casually in the garage, or just some Think? With the joyful promise of regaining quite some SoH? The knowledge about dismantling LEAFs? And not to forget the serial number of the battery pack ending with 140 which implies that this could very well be a very early one? Just buy it. This LEAF is the one to open a box, most likely not Pandora's but with cookies that are good for us and the car. Interesting as well is that there are more companies that make slightly worn out LEAFs better. For example Muxsan in The Netherlands. They do complete battery replacements, upgrades, downgrades (if ever), battery extendeders placed in the boot, 11 kW type 2 charge ports, even CCS upgrades. Might be cool to visit them with this car. There is a ferry from Kristiansand to Cuxhaven, which saves you lots of effort and lots of fast charging.
That would be intresting to see, active cooling with fans, in the Leaf. Maby some, comparsion afterwards, to see if it worth it or not. Mhm, but after, rethinking, the Leaf is after all a daily driver, so i guess its not worth it. Only for the Science then....
Active cooling with fans means holes in the battery pack which can let moisture inside, not a good idea. Even just warm moist air can condense water overnight when it gets colder. Normal battery packs are sealed with gore tex filters which pass air but not moisture to prevent this condensation problem. Notice how most packs are liquid cooled to avoid this problem.
@@morrisg I never mentioned to do a bad job. They have my and probably from all of us here, the permission to do a good job and add a moisture filter. Or maby better, add a airchannel direct from the A/C. That air is alredy dry. 😉
It'll be interesting to see how much additional capacity you get, that bad pack will have been cushioning the other 47 packs because the BMS will have been calibrating to the worst pack.
Can’t believe almost nobody offers this service in the US… my 2013 Leaf only has 2 bars of degradation, would love to replace the pack when SOH gets to 50%
It is possible in the USA right now. There are several shops (including my own) that provide this service. The catch is that most Leafs do not fail in this manner. Generally the packs are very well balanced across all the modules. The more common problem is that the capacity is degraded. And there isn't a fix for that, other than replacement of all the modules in the pack. If your Leaf still have 10 bars, you are quite fortunate compared to others. I have seen cars with only 4 bars remaining. Oof. The other big catch is that it is expensive. For example, I could swap a Used 12 bar 85% State of Health 24 kWh pack into your car as soon as next week. But it could easily be $5,000+ USD. The main reason more shops don't offer this service is because there aren't many customers willing to pay the going rate for the job.
If you could add something to get the air moving inside the pack, even without ventilation hole that would be able to transport the heat to the outer shell of the pack more efficiently. A non-conductive liquid sloshing around, or a high density and heat capacity gas might even work. Should not take much.
Hi Bjorn, maybe it would be enough to actively cool the badly placed batteries in the middle by simply welding some "peltier elements" (not sure if it is called that way in englisch as in german) directly under these places. that would work without removing the battery. 12v units exists, and should be easy to retrofit. maybe add some cooling fins as well. and if you cool down the hotspots, the rest should be fine, right?
Most excellent video, what a star, keeping those old Leafs on the road….be interesting to see if the car could take the newer battery pack, are they the same shape ? Will the onboard electronics cope with a newer pack or will it need to have the newer charging and BMS package too ?. So many questions !
Was that a Th!nk City at 18:17? I wrote to them back in 2000 to ask them if I could get involved with their company. They sent me a brochure, and a letter saying they wouldn't be coming to Canada. Still have them.
The problem with weak cells in series is that the weak cell will be reversed charged by the current flow of the good cells. I have seen this during aircraft nicad battery service. The battery than was discharged and cells individually discharged. Sometimes that fixed the problem. Many times a cell would short during capacity check or recharge. It would burn damaging other cells. There was a lot of gas and the service area was purged for several hours. The lithium cells are much more dangerous. Try and get as much technical information as possible.
I have one cell , cell #1 in fact that falls before the rest. I dont think its that bad yet as I have a 2023 but under 30% SOC its the cell that is 50mv below the top and drops further under acceleration.
Hi, love the content ! Do you guys know if it is poesible to use a Leaf battery module/cell to replace a dead module in a Renault fluence ? Or are they not compatible ? I can see that the capacity is a bit different so i guess it is not possible ? If not, do you know of any place i can source a single module og multible ? BR Martin
This is price for 1 hour ! In Norway its better to change car when the warranty is finish than keep it and repair the problems that will come in the future
That's about $90USD. Seems reasonable enough for an hourly labour chargeout rate in a high income country like Norway. It'd be a similar rate here in Australia.
@@HermanTheHacker but how many hours is needed to fix something? Price per hour means nothing if its 1/5 of the time for a tesla for example. (And no there is no 1 problem)
This should be compulsory watching for all the EV skepticals out there. A 10 years old battery can be given a new lease on life just by swapping out one module. The EU just walked back on its 2035 no-ICE mandate, which is crazy. In the meanwhile, Norway leads the EV race.
No it wouldn't work at all, it's a chemical reaction with a thermal runaway which you can't stop. The only thing the fire department does if they have a EV battery burning is to dump the whole car in a purpose made container spraying water on it for days while it burns out and cools down.
Hey Bjørn, are all module in serial or parallel? Would it be possible for a smart BMS to isolate bad module the same way a HDD/SDD isolate bad sector ? I have no idea if Nissan or Tesla or anyone is doing that and if it's possible, but loosing 1/48 Modules seems a much better deal than what is currently lost in this Leaf.
big challenge is cost. most of which is labor. replacing one or two cell modules may be cost prohibited when factoring in the price market of the car. reselling battery, motor, and other parts to used market may be more attractive than actually having to 'fix' your car by a shop like this. the other option is DIY; then labor is your own. this might be interesting; one caveat though is not getting electrocuted or securing equipment for getting in and out the battery ....o_0
Looks like links are not allowed so I will repost. James of Cleverley EV and James and Kate EV fame did an almost identical repair two years ago, £500 and 2 hour job, difficulty low if you know what you are doing and have the tools. Let's see how these guys compare.
Bjørn could it have been the BMS cos even after the cell was swapped out it did the same to the new cell. That's how you found out it was a faulty BMS. Just a thought.
![Nissan Leaf Budget Battery Upgrade [ZE0, 24kWh-30kWh]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1Dwsk9lnr6I/mqdefault.jpg)
We need more places like this. Repair old packs don't just throw them out.
big challenge is cost. most of which is labor. replacing one or two cell modules may be cost prohibited when factoring in the price market of the car. reselling battery, motor, and other parts to used market may be more attractive than actually having to 'fix' your car by a shop like this. the other option is DIY; then labor is your own. this might be interesting; one caveat though is not getting electrocuted or securing equipment for getting in and out the battery ....o_0
@@cdbuiles so we could either have market of swap them out. It does not take long to pull the battery out the nissan leaf. Or have them repaired. If this was ICE and needed work similar thing would be done
@@cdbuiles Just saw a video about new modules for the Leaf for only $4000 dollars. Search for:
"CATL battery 12S1P 147ah battery module for Nissan Leaf car replacement"
Glad Lithuanians doing well in Norway!
Well he's definitely not in some type of mafia!
Šaunuoliai lietuviai!
Looking forward to seeing how much SOH will improve after the cell change.
you see this is what happens without battery balancing over time to keep the Battery balanced
Man I'd be over the moon if in 10 years I find out my EV can get new life breathed into it range-wise for a couple thousand euros.
That can be done now. Replacing a high milage pack with a low milage pack for instance cost very little. The old pack is still worth nearly as much as the good one, so it is only the cost of labour and the diference in KWh capacity. I am about to get the pack on my mitsubishi phev changed. St 304,600 miles the old one is a bit knackered now.
This video is way more interesting then him driving around some luxury EV that almost nobody can afford. I am also amazed at how well these guys speak English when it clearly isn’t their mother tongue.
the english really depends on the country and the school system you have there. in western/northern europe almost everyone speaks pretty good english. on the other hand, go south america for example and you will be completely lost. hardly anyone speaks any english, even if they also learned it for years in school 🤷🏻♂️
Nice interview Bjorn, you are improving. You had a good cadence with your subject and had some go to stuff you wanted to cover as a part of it. Well done.
7:00 Passive cooling is what is shown. The heat leaks through the shell.
A duct and a fan would be active cooling. If they would have made a air duct, they would have also added a fan. = active air cooling....
8:30 temperature sensors are also resistors, variable resistors. Their resistance changes with temperature and thats how system knows what the temperature is. Replacing them with standard resistors would "lie" some temperature to BMS.
And then you can kill your battery when it's hot.
And maybe yourself, if it gets extreme and bursts.
Sounds like a very poor idea to take out sensors, fire and explosions may ensue😮
It sounds like a very good way to start a battery fire if you tried to quick charge in the summer, car would not know cell temperature >50C so risk of serious damage or thermal runaway.
It is good to see that there are people who can keep the aging part of the electric car fleet going. And the fact that it is here in Lier is just fantastic!
7:05 the passive cooling is the heating up of the whole pack walls and radiating it out :)
If you have air channel and something forcing air through - then it's already active.
There's also few cm cap between pack and body above, where air passes through. (and a lot of dirt collects over time)
Wasn't the same pack design used on the eNV-200 where it did get a fan blowing air over the modules?
I think air cooling is not an option due to dust collection. If you want to prevent this, a filter is need, needing maintenance. Liquid cooling would be the better possibility but is a challenge doe to stack dimensions. It might work, when you take out 1 pack in the long pile, thus freeing up space. This is a major undertaking and will cost a lot.
@@Fredric169 The triplets have air cooling through a air filter.
Put a problem with air cooling is that some of the cells gets good cooling, while the other are hot.
I have observed a over 20°C difference between the cells.
@@MichaelEricMenk thx for your reply. Your result doesn‘t surprise me at all, as air has a much lower heat capacity vs liquid. Unfortunately liquid requires an additional structure for cooling.
no @@Hans-gb4mv , leaf and env somehow have different batteries. They are making liquid cooled env200 batteries since 2014 or something, but leaf carries on being passive nothing, radiation, including today's 62kwh packs.
Extremely interesting video. Many thx. I drive a Leaf as well. It’s a 2018 Model with 40 kWh. Would not recommend to take out the temp sensors. W/o you may get hot far beyond 60 deg C during charging o reduce their remaining lifetime quite significantly. In a worst case scenario, the car may start burning. To my knowledge, the BMS uses temperature as well to control the max current.
If you do it, I personally would charge the car only with AC as batteries don’t get so hot.
I’m a bit surprised about the location of the temperature sensors. They are suboptimal. Would place at least one in the middle of the log stack.
Looking forward to your next video, how much you could improve the stack.
Goid luck
Very interesting. I guess it must be expensive to fix but except for the time involved, seem doable. This is the future.
Great video Bjorn. really interesting seeing how the Leaf battery works and the hacks to repair it!🎉🎉
This is a really helpful video for all people looking for a second hand leaf, thank you for the good work and sharing that professional and wide knowledge. I wish this had came out a year ago, becase I would have saved a lot of time on internet forums, videos and articles. Just to give some extra info, for europe: the leafs before 2013 with light interior had that charger on the trunk and were made in Japan. All those batteries were 24 kWh, but not the most reliable. On 2013 and next models, interior was gray and no charger volume on the trunk. Starting on that year model, cars were made in Sunderland (UK) for european market. Those 24kWh batteries were more reliable than before. Also, heat pump was introduced, but not sure if those were standard or an option. There is a way to know if it's fitted based on the piping on the left area under the hood. Then, 2016 model had some minor changes and an optional 30 kWh battery. Same volume, different cell chemistry and layout. I finally got one of those at a good price. That 30 kWh battery is usually not more robust than the post-2013 24 kWh battery, but there are 2 important points to evaluate: First -> Being a bigger battery, even with lower SOH, more capacity is usually left. Second -> Nissan usually offered an 8 years warranty for battery SOH on those 30 kWh models. So, even a 2016 car would have battery warranty up to 2024. There are some conditions on that warranty, but it's a good backup. For anyone out there looking for one, this is important info. I ran though some scammers on my search, including 2012 models sold as post-2013 and cars from really hot weather areas here in Spain that had suspiciously high SOH, but really low estimated range even in eco mode. I have no proof but also no doubt that those SOH were recently reseted and still not showed real SOH. Also, many people is not aware of these generarion changes and try to sell an older and degradated battery car for a high price. For now, I'm very happy with this really ugly car. It's really more usable than I expected, so even when I had done my math to park the diesel car and use it only on long highway trips while saving money by doing 10-12 K commute km per year, the leaf is already over 20 K last year. It's not a great EV nowadays, but it's OK for its time and the second hand prices.
One of your best videos Bjørn. Relevant info.
Nice Video. You should do some rust prevention. I see a lot of rust in the bakck of the car.
Just bought a 2015 Leaf in Canada! So exciting to see stuff like this!!
Best content for the audience to understand what the future of our battery might have to deal with, hopefully these bad cells are identified before the battery is out of warranty. Keeping Elbikmek in my toolset of resource! Good work guys!
I like batteries and repairing evs stuff, great video Bjørn
Power to your elbow my friend. The more people like you the sioner I can get my 2013 leaf back to full battery power.
Great interview! Hope you can get some cooling fans for the battery pack! Can't wait to see the results!💥
You can actually get a gen 2 with light interior but they are rare, check the brake and boot to be sure.
That used to be an option, at least in UK, up until 2016
Some 2013 and newer US Leafs has light interior, and you find a lot of them even in Norway. Leafs that are produced in EU, does not have light interior. 2011 and 2012 is produced in Japan, like this one, and the vin starts with J, and those have light interior. The Leafs produced in USA starts with 1, and the Leafs produced in UK starts with S.
I bought in Sweden december 2016new 30 kWh. Been runni ng 138 000km and I 10 bars of SOH today. Kan drive maximum 120km light fort with out heater or AC on summering tyres. The car have benen running perfekt as famely car but start to think what to do in future. Chademo plugg are also to be a negative thing in future. But I am amazed about the quality nissan build in to this car.😊
I would love to see what a fan would do in terms of charging and power. The only problem i could see is that you have to pull cool air in from some place that doesn't allow water in as well.
Great synopsis on LEAF and will be very interesting to see where the battery health will settle after the weak cell has been replaced.
I really like you ask all the interesting DIY stuff like active cooling with fans etc. I would really appreciate if you can make this experiment if you buy this Leaf and go really in depth how to do it. Would be very interesting for me to see the benefit, if any. I would imagine Nissan tried this and for some reason decided not to do it, maybe because the benefit was so small but we will never know unless somebody like you actually does it. Thanks for the great content
This is great electric automotive content. Very informative.
Björn has so much unique and good content! Thx!
It’s always the time of the garage/shop, plus the skill and the time of the technician/mechanic.
Where is the next video related to this? Did I miss it? Thank you for this kind of content, really appreciate it.
Yah: ruclips.net/video/149NBXiy11c/видео.html
If only I could take my leaf somewhere locally and have this done... Love this car. Best $1500 I ever spent! lol
Just saw a video about new modules for the Leaf for only $4000 dollars. Search for:
"CATL battery 12S1P 147ah battery module for Nissan Leaf car replacement"
I love these tech videos, keep them coming!
Outstanding video. I hope this works. Please keep us posted on the results.
Loving these deep dive repair videos thanks Bjorn
The cost of the repair is a SEAL, compated to germany. My charger was "broken" and it is soooooo difficult to get it fixed. bjorn is in ev paradise and doesn't recognize it anymore ;-)
Thanks Bjørn for this very interesting video about battery repair. I am looking forward to your test results after the module has been replaced.
If only we could get 500k of this man in the US that’s what would really bring EVs to the masses.
According to this car manufacturers should make battery remove fast and easy also opening pack easy then it would be much cheaper to repair. Not like Tesla is planning to put some foam into packs and making them almost impossible to repair that would affect to insurance bill in future if car is expensive to repair.
I wish such workplaces would be common in Germany.
Here if you have trouble with an EV, only very few can help.
Same in the USA! Can’t find a place to replace my Leaf battery
Try doing that on the Tesla model Y structural pack!
Hopefully Tesla will be able to disable individual cells. If 1 or 2 cells go bad, not as much of a problem cause there are so many
@@tobias..6688 I think fitting a 50A mosfet switch on every single cell is kind of overcomplex and expensive!
I'm afraid Tesla's strategy going forward is bad battery = new car. This is why their next generation platform is designed to be built as quickly and cheaply as possible.
There are people working on methods to snip off individual defect cells in a structural pack.
Curious for the result, when will it be posted? :)
Looking forward to following this project, to see this vehicle become almost like new again. Please detail it😁🙏 looked like one of the last cells also was pretty bad. Why not change that one as well?
Nice video as always, but the idea of replacing the temperature sensors with a resistor to lie to the BMS, should be criminal. If the battery heats up, and the charge or discharge current keeps going on, can cause it to catch fire or explode. I think it is bad that it was even suggested. There is already a big amount of FUD provided by the anti repair camp, and the idea that some one could make this kind of modification to a pack will scare even more people. Not good if you are pushing for reparability of these units like you are showing here.
I always wondered whether just removing the cell and bridging it instead would be viable.
You'd essentially get slightly lower overall pack voltage and also proportionally less capacity, but such intervention could make sense in cases where sourcing replacement cells would be difficult. If the BMS could be made to go along with it, that is.
I like this idea. But would you need a couple of built in empty slots where healthy cells/modules could be easily slided in from the outside as one or two old ones are disconnected for the voltage to stay the same. Then a couple of fresh modules could be added with ease without the need of this extensive costly battery surgery.
12:00 1000 euros for module replacement, oh my, but it is of course a lot of work. It is a lot less work to put in a whole new 30kwh battery. For maybe around 5000 euros, and sell old for battery storage for ~2000 eur.
@Ben Baselet From a company in Portland, OR - 24kWh can be upgraded to 30 or 40kWh packs, not beyond. As I recall, their price $4500US to go from 24 to used 30kWh.
@@mikecarter2737 just to keep information accurate here, you can put any leaf battery on old leafs, up to 62kwh. Just needs a little upgrade on the mounts and recommended to put stronger springs in too, if you go with 62kwh. And if a layman reads this - no this does not mean you can just pop old off and slam new one in, there is nuance, depending on the year model, some wire adapter and or canbridge for translating the new batt to old car.
@gelisob Thanks; I own 24kWh old Leaf that will get upgraded when range drops to unbearable. Not a mechanic; I just watch converter company videos.
sure thing @@mikecarter2737 . Keep in mind that you can sell your used one for quite a bit of money so dont settle for bad deal. 100€ per remaining kwh easily.
And if you want to see some steps what battery change or repair took then i've got some low quality videos on channel too. To be a bit more informed when you get to buying the service :)
Good business. They can only expand even further by doing EV conversions!
Great Video, can you do more
Do I see a 1000km challenge??
It would be great to see...with some 15 charging stops 🙂
I hate to say that you are totally wrong. I had a 2012 Leaf for 10 years; it was a great car until the battery was very much degraded. Then I bought the 2016 model; OMG, the quality of workmanship is not there at all. They have removed so many things that we really enjoyed; the electronic parking brake was awesome. Driving two cars, driving Toyota versus Mercedes differences. The range was 150km on the 2016 Leaf; we could not forget the 2012 Leaf. No one talks about this, but 2012 is the best model Nissan Leaf ever produced. Then we found the 2012 Leaf; it was purchased very cheaply and had a 40KW battery. This car is a legend. If you are looking for a reliable car , get a 2012 Leaf and put 40KW battery or 62 KW. Then you are all set.
Very interesting viewing this, thanks Bjørn!
Very cool vid. Where to start? With the CityEL parked casually in the garage, or just some Think? With the joyful promise of regaining quite some SoH? The knowledge about dismantling LEAFs? And not to forget the serial number of the battery pack ending with 140 which implies that this could very well be a very early one?
Just buy it. This LEAF is the one to open a box, most likely not Pandora's but with cookies that are good for us and the car.
Interesting as well is that there are more companies that make slightly worn out LEAFs better. For example Muxsan in The Netherlands. They do complete battery replacements, upgrades, downgrades (if ever), battery extendeders placed in the boot, 11 kW type 2 charge ports, even CCS upgrades. Might be cool to visit them with this car. There is a ferry from Kristiansand to Cuxhaven, which saves you lots of effort and lots of fast charging.
Is There a Part 2 following this repair ?
Yep: ruclips.net/video/149NBXiy11c/видео.html
That would be intresting to see, active cooling with fans, in the Leaf. Maby some, comparsion afterwards, to see if it worth it or not. Mhm, but after, rethinking, the Leaf is after all a daily driver, so i guess its not worth it. Only for the Science then....
Active cooling with fans means holes in the battery pack which can let moisture inside, not a good idea. Even just warm moist air can condense water overnight when it gets colder. Normal battery packs are sealed with gore tex filters which pass air but not moisture to prevent this condensation problem. Notice how most packs are liquid cooled to avoid this problem.
@@morrisg I never mentioned to do a bad job. They have my and probably from all of us here, the permission to do a good job and add a moisture filter. Or maby better, add a airchannel direct from the A/C. That air is alredy dry. 😉
repair once and in a few years you can use it for home solar storage and put a bigger lfp inside
It'll be interesting to see how much additional capacity you get, that bad pack will have been cushioning the other 47 packs because the BMS will have been calibrating to the worst pack.
Maybe fix the rust under the battery, and on the battery box!
Inside the car, you can see if the car has A og B-battery: Look under the cover in front of the back seat, to see the size of the switch.
Do you know detail of differentce between switch? Thanks.
Great video but I would have waited for the final result before publishing 😁
The video would be too long. Better split into several episodes and focus on different topics.
Good video! Hope you do something similar with an Opel Ampera / Chevy Volt.
Can’t believe almost nobody offers this service in the US… my 2013 Leaf only has 2 bars of degradation, would love to replace the pack when SOH gets to 50%
It is possible in the USA right now. There are several shops (including my own) that provide this service.
The catch is that most Leafs do not fail in this manner. Generally the packs are very well balanced across all the modules.
The more common problem is that the capacity is degraded. And there isn't a fix for that, other than replacement of all the modules in the pack.
If your Leaf still have 10 bars, you are quite fortunate compared to others. I have seen cars with only 4 bars remaining. Oof.
The other big catch is that it is expensive. For example, I could swap a Used 12 bar 85% State of Health 24 kWh pack into your car as soon as next week. But it could easily be $5,000+ USD.
The main reason more shops don't offer this service is because there aren't many customers willing to pay the going rate for the job.
Very Interesting, can't wait for the result
If you could add something to get the air moving inside the pack, even without ventilation hole that would be able to transport the heat to the outer shell of the pack more efficiently. A non-conductive liquid sloshing around, or a high density and heat capacity gas might even work. Should not take much.
Hi Bjorn,
maybe it would be enough to actively cool the badly placed batteries in the middle by simply welding some "peltier elements" (not sure if it is called that way in englisch as in german) directly under these places. that would work without removing the battery. 12v units exists, and should be easy to retrofit. maybe add some cooling fins as well. and if you cool down the hotspots, the rest should be fine, right?
Most excellent video, what a star, keeping those old Leafs on the road….be interesting to see if the car could take the newer battery pack, are they the same shape ? Will the onboard electronics cope with a newer pack or will it need to have the newer charging and BMS package too ?. So many questions !
The battery on an e-nv200 has an air cooler but pack size is bigger.
It´s worth to convert the chademo plug into a CCS plug in order to have a better coverage of charging infrastructure?
In 5 years maybe. Currently, finding a vacant Chademo is much easier than CCS on a busy day
There are currently no conversion kits available.
Was that a Th!nk City at 18:17? I wrote to them back in 2000 to ask them if I could get involved with their company. They sent me a brochure, and a letter saying they wouldn't be coming to Canada. Still have them.
Really enjoying these videos thank you
Now these are interesting videos!!!
The problem with weak cells in series is that the weak cell will be reversed charged by the current flow of the good cells. I have seen this during aircraft nicad battery service. The battery than was discharged and cells individually discharged. Sometimes that fixed the problem. Many times a cell would short during capacity check or recharge. It would burn damaging other cells. There was a lot of gas and the service area was purged for several hours. The lithium cells are much more dangerous. Try and get as much technical information as possible.
@bjørn: how much is the car + repairs=total cost?
this is very interesting
i like repair videos!
Enjoyed it. Interesting.
I have one cell , cell #1 in fact that falls before the rest. I dont think its that bad yet as I have a 2023 but under 30% SOC its the cell that is 50mv below the top and drops further under acceleration.
Hi, love the content !
Do you guys know if it is poesible to use a Leaf battery module/cell to replace a dead module in a Renault fluence ? Or are they not compatible ? I can see that the capacity is a bit different so i guess it is not possible ? If not, do you know of any place i can source a single module og multible ? BR Martin
I'd be interested in knowing where Valdemaras and his fellow mechanics learned how to service EVs (and not get electrocuted).
Guessing the same way men learned to make boats, cars, airplanes and fire, learning by doing.
Cliffhanger! lol
AMAZING
Has there been a follow up video with the measured improvements?
Really interesting
Is 955 NOK price for 1 hour of work or 1 day? Because it seems really high to me but maybe it's standard price for labour price in Norway
This is price for 1 hour ! In Norway its better to change car when the warranty is finish than keep it and repair the problems that will come in the future
Welcome to Norway. Tesla and other brands charge even more per hour.
That's about $90USD. Seems reasonable enough for an hourly labour chargeout rate in a high income country like Norway. It'd be a similar rate here in Australia.
Tesla charges 1600 NOK/hr i labor in Norway.
@@HermanTheHacker but how many hours is needed to fix something? Price per hour means nothing if its 1/5 of the time for a tesla for example. (And no there is no 1 problem)
are they now going solid state batteries?
This should be compulsory watching for all the EV skepticals out there. A 10 years old battery can be given a new lease on life just by swapping out one module. The EU just walked back on its 2035 no-ICE mandate, which is crazy. In the meanwhile, Norway leads the EV race.
There is a US EV Brand where this fix would not have been possible.
could it be.... nah!?
Hope it goes well 🙏
Out of curiosity about the fire extinguisher, would it even work against a burning battery cell? What extinguisher type would you need?
No it wouldn't work at all, it's a chemical reaction with a thermal runaway which you can't stop. The only thing the fire department does if they have a EV battery burning is to dump the whole car in a purpose made container spraying water on it for days while it burns out and cools down.
@@ITubeTooInc yea i was thinking along those lines.
Swap in liquid cooled Tesla batteries! 2013 Leaf with 300 miles of range!!!
Swap in a flux capacitor then he can travel in time...all jokes aside, changing the pack tech to a different stack is very difficult
AS you were already taking the battery pack out why didn't you look at upgrading the pack to a later bigger pack?
More expensive plus it needs to be approved by the authorities due to higher weight.
Hey Bjørn, are all module in serial or parallel? Would it be possible for a smart BMS to isolate bad module the same way a HDD/SDD isolate bad sector ? I have no idea if Nissan or Tesla or anyone is doing that and if it's possible, but loosing 1/48 Modules seems a much better deal than what is currently lost in this Leaf.
EVs Enhanced New Zealand The manufacture of liquid cold repacement battery pack for Nissan Leaf.
big challenge is cost. most of which is labor. replacing one or two cell modules may be cost prohibited when factoring in the price market of the car. reselling battery, motor, and other parts to used market may be more attractive than actually having to 'fix' your car by a shop like this. the other option is DIY; then labor is your own. this might be interesting; one caveat though is not getting electrocuted or securing equipment for getting in and out the battery ....o_0
❤❤❤
Only fans, no switch
Better send the car to Lithuania to fix ! Work ing hour payment is toooo expensive!
whens the next part of this coming out?
Looks like links are not allowed so I will repost. James of Cleverley EV and James and Kate EV fame did an almost identical repair two years ago, £500 and 2 hour job, difficulty low if you know what you are doing and have the tools. Let's see how these guys compare.
Very interesting.
1000km challenge?
what kind of diagnostic you use ?
Bjørn could it have been the BMS cos even after the cell was swapped out it did the same to the new cell. That's how you found out it was a faulty BMS. Just a thought.
What's the status for the follow up?