F-4 equipped only with the unguided bombs as SP was indeed such a weird starter choice in AC4. Especially when there were no ground targets in the first sortie 😅
I've always found it odd whenever an Ace Combat game has a first mission that's air to air with you taking an air to ground special weapon into battle. The effectiveness of special weapons should be demonstrated right away I think. Later titles would get better at that, but the early instances of being forced to take an air to ground SP weapon into an air to air mission at the start still leave me a little confused.
I respectfully disagree. The starter plane can deal with the enemies of the first mission just fine without the Special Weapons. It's the second mission, Imminent Threat, that finally shows you where the F4 SPs should be used; same goes for the third mission. By then, you have enough currency to buy a new plane, something with air-to-air SPs.
In game design, it's looking more like artificial limitation than anything. AC5 did the same thing too. There were only a few air targets & PA really don't want you to rush through all the enemies with special weapons yet.
If you think about it from the in-story perspective of ISAF sortieing any available aircraft they have to hand as part of their _last line of defense,_ deploying F-4s with bombs actually makes perfect sense. Same with Wardog being deployed with F-5Es that only have bombs to intercept the Yuke spy plane. They weren't expecting to be attacked, being effectively caught with their pants down.
I always thought it should have had medium range air to air missiles instead of those short range dog fighting ones since the Phantom utilized the AIM-7 Sparrow and other medium range missiles over the years
In AC7, I like using the F4 with ISAF livery during the Spare 15 part of the game. In my own head cannon, Mobius 1’s old plane got restored by Avril and was given to Trigger.
For the depiction in AC4 I think they were just basing it on Vietnam War era usage of the plane so napalm bombs made sense. And this things as a fighter was flawed in the first place as it was designed with long range attacks beyond visual distance in mind not dogfighting since they thought it would not be a thing anymore.
Interestingly enough, the Phantom's later variants (F4E) could actually dogfight. The F4E with eagle slats COULD out-rate a Mig21 on the deck, and was slightly better in a vertical and in a dive, at least at lower altitude. The F4's performance in the Vietnam War was more due to the restrictive ROE of the time than anything else. As the F4 would do sterling service for both the Israeli and the Iran air force
One of the things about ACZ is that given the way aces are presented. The F-4 is the aircraft of the oldest most veteran Belkan ace in Silber squadron who is in charge of a squad of F-16cs he trains, where the squad will maintain element and be more disciplined until he is shot down after which they become more aggressive because they no longer have their mentor. It gives the F-4 a nice bit of personality as the aircraft of choice for an older pilot from an older generation who isn't using the plane because he's stuck with nothing better, but because it's what he's used to, hence encountering them in Mission 10.
Took a step away from the series for a while but just started Ace combat 4 again yesterday, and found myself obsessed with the F-4 again since I'm doing a semi-canon play through. This came out at the perfect time! lol.
Don't know if anyone's said it already, but there is a pretty interesting reason why the F-4's air to air capability is pretty low. When the F-4 was being created, the going wisdom in the military was that with the advances in military aircraft technologies after World War 2, dogfighting was going to be obsolete, a relic of a bygone era of air combat. Early versions of the F-4 weren't even equipped with a gun, they would have to rely on missiles to shoot down enemy fighters. Obviously, this idea of dogfighting being obsolete was proven false during Vietnam, so later versions of the Phantom were given guns. The channel The Fat Electrician goes over this pretty well in his video on Robin Olds, a WWII ace pilot brought in to train newer pilots in dogfighting during the Vietnam War.
I love this new series, can't wait till you reach the F/A-18s or the Flankers because imo those planes look really really cool (especially the Super Hornet and the Flanker-F "Terminator" because they just LOOK like they were made with air-to-air performance in mind)
Honestly, I'm always surprised by just how decent the F-4 is in nearly every Ace game, even if it's just the starter plane (then again it's also a beast IRL X3).
The Phantom is like a battle axe, she’s brutal but unwieldy. She definitely takes more effort to make effective, but in the right hands she can pack quite a serious punch. There is a very good reason the Phantom is still in service with several countries today, nearly 70 years since her original debut…
I originally started watching your Ace Combat Series because despite another youtuber doing the same, all their videos on specifically AC5 and Zero are so heartless in how they judge things. So I'm looking forward to your episode on Zero. I just finished playing both AC5 and Zero, and god, I got into the series thorough 7, thinking it was a great game, but 5 and Zero blew it out of the water. Also, I'm glad someone is making a series like this. I can't wait to see some of the Aircraft that are more unique, like the F-16xl and F-15S/MTD
I'm looking forward to getting to work on the Zero retrospective! Especially since Zero is my personal favorite game in the franchise. It's really cool to hear that you played some of the older titles after being introduced with 7! There's a reason why 5 and Zero are part of what's often called the Holy Trinity (the other game in the Holy Trinity being Ace Combat 04). I'm looking forward to making more videos in this series too!
I use the F-4G a lot in AC5 especially after going through multiple campains...the long range air to ground missiles are awesome. The napalm on the F-4E works well on linear clusters of or large targets...I use it in the Sinfaxi mission.
Fun fact about the F-4 pertaining to AC Advance. I’m Ace Combat Advance there is an enemy plane sprite resembling an F-4, so technically there is a futuristic GR-made F-4. It’s probably the most obscure plane variant in Ace Combat
Looking at this, it makes me notice how Ace Combat haven´t got to use the F-4 to it's maximum capacity. Been the E variant the ones that shows up the most while in reality, the Phantom got some serious upgrades in real life, like the F-4 ICE, the Kurmass and the F-4 EJ.
Subbed! Looking forward to the rest of this series, and your other content seems good as well. I clearly do need to look into the handheld Ace Combat games though…
An idea for future videos: give your take on ideal part/special weapon loadouts for AC7, similarly to how XboxAhoy used to do optimal class/attachment loadouts for the weapons he covered at the end of his videos. Good video btw.
1:43 Well, I can tell one of those is the A-4 Skyhawk. Which, IIRC, only appeared as a flyable version in Ace Combat 2. ...I have no idea what bias or hatred someone in the development had against the Skyhawk, but for an aircraft that's iconic and still in service today, it sure as hell got neglected in the AC series.
A couple of interesting tidbits regarding the F4 I thought I'd highlight: The F4E came with an internally mounted M61 Vulcan cannon with radar gunsight, thusly solving some of the issues that earlier variants of the F4 like the F4C had. It also featured 'eagle slats' or slats that were mounted to the leading edges of the wing for improved low speed maneuverability. At high speeds, the F4 could two circle most, if not all fighters of its era. The F4G 'Wild Weasel' was designed specifically for SEAD or Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses, and would mount AGM-88 HARM anti radar missiles. As far as I know, the F4X was just a American-Israeli interceptor modification for the F4, though in-game I think the designation is more based on the german F4F ICE, which had the radar of an F18 and could carry AMRAAMs, or the F4EJ kai, which was about the same. Another interesting thing to note is that in the Ace Combat series the F4E is carrier capable. This is false. The F4E is a strictly air force variant. The F4Bs and F4S's were the naval variant and were thus carrier capable, not the F4E. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant. Great video as always!
From what I've read, the F-4X started as a reconnaissance version capable of Mach 3 flight, essentially a "Poor Man's SR-71." It's been a while since I've read about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the interceptor part is also true. That would have made the F-4X more-or-less a MiG-25P/R. McDD & GE figured out that with modified intakes, and water sprayed in the compressor face to cool it, the J79 engines could put out about 50% more power per engine. The conformal tanks were for carrying water, not fuel. The program only got as far as mounting the new intakes and mockups of the conformal water tanks, more than likely because the conventional materials used in about 90% of the airframe wouldn't hold up in conditions of Mach 2.5+ flight. What we got in Ace Combat 5 was an F-4F ICE with the conformal tanks, probably because the F-4F looks externally identical to the F-4E.
@@reapertalon Happy to help. I agree that the F-4E being carrier-capable in Ace Combat 4 was weird and unnecessary, but I guess they just wanted one more carrier-capable plane in the game.🤷🏻 Plus they put a catapult towbar on the nosewheel, when no Phantom was ever fitted with one, but I know that's because it was much easier to just add a catapult tow bar than use the bridle launch system in a PS2 game. No navy Phantoms were fitted with internal cannons because it would have adversely affected the weight and balance, and the F-4E actually had a less capable radar than the navy Phantoms.
I remember after finishing AC4, I started again using only the F4, it was more challenging, especially the later stage. But I eventually did kill everyone in every mission.
I am excited for this series, should be exciting, specially when the fictional aircraft start appearing, and will this also include some of the flying fortresses (like the xb-0) since they are technically a plane, just a tad bigger.
Ive only pre ordered one game in my life and that was Ac7 just to fly the Phantom, i have AH but couldnt get the F-4 on that one since there werent any dlc around
Every time I remember ace combat infinity I get sad that we can't play it anymore besides the micro transactions I absolutely adore that game I just hope it comes back in the future
I fly my Phantom II in AC7 And boy it stomps in Multiplayer cause of the SASM I killed my share of Morgans, Ravens, Falkens, Wyverns, Raptors and Felons
Too bad the F-4D has never been in Ace !? Which I thought that’s what the “F-4G” was but the D has a Shorter nose and Was the First phantom variant since the 60s anyway
Hello, Thunderous. nice series! How did you play the PS2 games? I play on my old PS2 with its original composite cables plugged into my HDTV and it looks like garbage.
Una pena que no sacaran la cancelada actualización israelí llamado F-4 2000 super phantom, que sus cambios eran el de los motores J 79 por los F 110 de los F-16, se cambió tanto la aviónica como el radar, cómo sería usarlo en los videojuegos?
F-4 equipped only with the unguided bombs as SP was indeed such a weird starter choice in AC4. Especially when there were no ground targets in the first sortie 😅
I've always found it odd whenever an Ace Combat game has a first mission that's air to air with you taking an air to ground special weapon into battle. The effectiveness of special weapons should be demonstrated right away I think. Later titles would get better at that, but the early instances of being forced to take an air to ground SP weapon into an air to air mission at the start still leave me a little confused.
I respectfully disagree. The starter plane can deal with the enemies of the first mission just fine without the Special Weapons.
It's the second mission, Imminent Threat, that finally shows you where the F4 SPs should be used; same goes for the third mission.
By then, you have enough currency to buy a new plane, something with air-to-air SPs.
@@ThunderousFolf I think it's a Vietnam War reference. The Napalm is kinda a giveaway to me.
In game design, it's looking more like artificial limitation than anything. AC5 did the same thing too. There were only a few air targets & PA really don't want you to rush through all the enemies with special weapons yet.
If you think about it from the in-story perspective of ISAF sortieing any available aircraft they have to hand as part of their _last line of defense,_ deploying F-4s with bombs actually makes perfect sense. Same with Wardog being deployed with F-5Es that only have bombs to intercept the Yuke spy plane. They weren't expecting to be attacked, being effectively caught with their pants down.
I love using the F-4 in AC7's Long Day. Given that takes place in universe on July 4th, it just feels right.
It's pretty great in it with upgraded UGBs
I always thought it should have had medium range air to air missiles instead of those short range dog fighting ones since the Phantom utilized the AIM-7 Sparrow and other medium range missiles over the years
In AC7, I like using the F4 with ISAF livery during the Spare 15 part of the game. In my own head cannon, Mobius 1’s old plane got restored by Avril and was given to Trigger.
Gonna do that now
@@discodan3367I just wish there was a version of the ISAF paint job that still had the three strikes. That would be perfect.
I welcome this new series! Mobius 1's F-4E is so iconic.
:)
Mobius 1 and the 2nd paint scheme (woodland with the shark mouth) are classic
For the depiction in AC4 I think they were just basing it on Vietnam War era usage of the plane so napalm bombs made sense. And this things as a fighter was flawed in the first place as it was designed with long range attacks beyond visual distance in mind not dogfighting since they thought it would not be a thing anymore.
Either way still love to see where you continue this series
Interestingly enough, the Phantom's later variants (F4E) could actually dogfight. The F4E with eagle slats COULD out-rate a Mig21 on the deck, and was slightly better in a vertical and in a dive, at least at lower altitude. The F4's performance in the Vietnam War was more due to the restrictive ROE of the time than anything else. As the F4 would do sterling service for both the Israeli and the Iran air force
Admit it; you’re not covering every plane because Ace Combat 5 would take FOREVER if you did.
One of the things about ACZ is that given the way aces are presented. The F-4 is the aircraft of the oldest most veteran Belkan ace in Silber squadron who is in charge of a squad of F-16cs he trains, where the squad will maintain element and be more disciplined until he is shot down after which they become more aggressive because they no longer have their mentor. It gives the F-4 a nice bit of personality as the aircraft of choice for an older pilot from an older generation who isn't using the plane because he's stuck with nothing better, but because it's what he's used to, hence encountering them in Mission 10.
Took a step away from the series for a while but just started Ace combat 4 again yesterday, and found myself obsessed with the F-4 again since I'm doing a semi-canon play through. This came out at the perfect time! lol.
Oof have fun when you get to the flanker family
As you can see, a wild flanker, undergoing mitosis in the wild, before mutating into different flankers
Oh god.
Don't know if anyone's said it already, but there is a pretty interesting reason why the F-4's air to air capability is pretty low. When the F-4 was being created, the going wisdom in the military was that with the advances in military aircraft technologies after World War 2, dogfighting was going to be obsolete, a relic of a bygone era of air combat. Early versions of the F-4 weren't even equipped with a gun, they would have to rely on missiles to shoot down enemy fighters. Obviously, this idea of dogfighting being obsolete was proven false during Vietnam, so later versions of the Phantom were given guns. The channel The Fat Electrician goes over this pretty well in his video on Robin Olds, a WWII ace pilot brought in to train newer pilots in dogfighting during the Vietnam War.
Excited for more in the future. reminds me of another Ace tuber who tried something similar in the past, sadly he only did one vid for the X-02.
Just want to say I'm really happy to see people still making ace combat videos, and I love your stuff. Keep it up!
I love this new series, can't wait till you reach the F/A-18s or the Flankers because imo those planes look really really cool (especially the Super Hornet and the Flanker-F "Terminator" because they just LOOK like they were made with air-to-air performance in mind)
Honestly, I'm always surprised by just how decent the F-4 is in nearly every Ace game, even if it's just the starter plane (then again it's also a beast IRL X3).
like the new series idea, keep up the good work
4:32 I will not take this MRE slander...although being a Army vet I might be biased lol
YEEEEEES MY DAWG, love this frame
Cool series
The Phantom is like a battle axe, she’s brutal but unwieldy. She definitely takes more effort to make effective, but in the right hands she can pack quite a serious punch. There is a very good reason the Phantom is still in service with several countries today, nearly 70 years since her original debut…
I originally started watching your Ace Combat Series because despite another youtuber doing the same, all their videos on specifically AC5 and Zero are so heartless in how they judge things. So I'm looking forward to your episode on Zero. I just finished playing both AC5 and Zero, and god, I got into the series thorough 7, thinking it was a great game, but 5 and Zero blew it out of the water. Also, I'm glad someone is making a series like this. I can't wait to see some of the Aircraft that are more unique, like the F-16xl and F-15S/MTD
I'm looking forward to getting to work on the Zero retrospective! Especially since Zero is my personal favorite game in the franchise. It's really cool to hear that you played some of the older titles after being introduced with 7! There's a reason why 5 and Zero are part of what's often called the Holy Trinity (the other game in the Holy Trinity being Ace Combat 04). I'm looking forward to making more videos in this series too!
Good work folf.
Loved it. And I'm down for this new series. More please😎😎
I think additionally with describing the aircraft’s capability, you should go into the lore of the aircraft in the Ace Combat series
Looking forward to this series! This sounds like a great idea for a AC0 Belka elitist like myself!
Loving your stuff, new to the channel but u got my support for sure!
I use the F-4G a lot in AC5 especially after going through multiple campains...the long range air to ground missiles are awesome. The napalm on the F-4E works well on linear clusters of or large targets...I use it in the Sinfaxi mission.
Can’t wait for the Ace Combat Advance Video! Where you cover every aircraft in Ace combat advance!
(If you can’t tell this is a joke)
Fun fact about the F-4 pertaining to AC Advance. I’m Ace Combat Advance there is an enemy plane sprite resembling an F-4, so technically there is a futuristic GR-made F-4. It’s probably the most obscure plane variant in Ace Combat
I’d also love an F-16 video, it’d be neat with it performing worse than it probably should in a lot of games because it’s stuck as the starter
"wait... I know you"
@@yuriko_AH SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
The Phantom is my favorite plane. I always use it while playing.
Looking at this, it makes me notice how Ace Combat haven´t got to use the F-4 to it's maximum capacity. Been the E variant the ones that shows up the most while in reality, the Phantom got some serious upgrades in real life, like the F-4 ICE, the Kurmass and the F-4 EJ.
omg please do a million of these
Subbed! Looking forward to the rest of this series, and your other content seems good as well.
I clearly do need to look into the handheld Ace Combat games though…
An idea for future videos: give your take on ideal part/special weapon loadouts for AC7, similarly to how XboxAhoy used to do optimal class/attachment loadouts for the weapons he covered at the end of his videos.
Good video btw.
I need more of this
1:43
Well, I can tell one of those is the A-4 Skyhawk. Which, IIRC, only appeared as a flyable version in Ace Combat 2.
...I have no idea what bias or hatred someone in the development had against the Skyhawk, but for an aircraft that's iconic and still in service today, it sure as hell got neglected in the AC series.
Really wish we got to see the F-8 Crusader even once too…
A couple of interesting tidbits regarding the F4 I thought I'd highlight:
The F4E came with an internally mounted M61 Vulcan cannon with radar gunsight, thusly solving some of the issues that earlier variants of the F4 like the F4C had. It also featured 'eagle slats' or slats that were mounted to the leading edges of the wing for improved low speed maneuverability. At high speeds, the F4 could two circle most, if not all fighters of its era.
The F4G 'Wild Weasel' was designed specifically for SEAD or Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses, and would mount AGM-88 HARM anti radar missiles.
As far as I know, the F4X was just a American-Israeli interceptor modification for the F4, though in-game I think the designation is more based on the german F4F ICE, which had the radar of an F18 and could carry AMRAAMs, or the F4EJ kai, which was about the same.
Another interesting thing to note is that in the Ace Combat series the F4E is carrier capable. This is false. The F4E is a strictly air force variant. The F4Bs and F4S's were the naval variant and were thus carrier capable, not the F4E. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant.
Great video as always!
From what I've read, the F-4X started as a reconnaissance version capable of Mach 3 flight, essentially a "Poor Man's SR-71." It's been a while since I've read about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the interceptor part is also true. That would have made the F-4X more-or-less a MiG-25P/R. McDD & GE figured out that with modified intakes, and water sprayed in the compressor face to cool it, the J79 engines could put out about 50% more power per engine. The conformal tanks were for carrying water, not fuel. The program only got as far as mounting the new intakes and mockups of the conformal water tanks, more than likely because the conventional materials used in about 90% of the airframe wouldn't hold up in conditions of Mach 2.5+ flight.
What we got in Ace Combat 5 was an F-4F ICE with the conformal tanks, probably because the F-4F looks externally identical to the F-4E.
@@kibathemechanic4967 Well, I stand corrected, thanks very much for the info. I find it amazing that the F4 was such a modular platform
@@reapertalon Happy to help.
I agree that the F-4E being carrier-capable in Ace Combat 4 was weird and unnecessary, but I guess they just wanted one more carrier-capable plane in the game.🤷🏻
Plus they put a catapult towbar on the nosewheel, when no Phantom was ever fitted with one, but I know that's because it was much easier to just add a catapult tow bar than use the bridle launch system in a PS2 game.
No navy Phantoms were fitted with internal cannons because it would have adversely affected the weight and balance, and the F-4E actually had a less capable radar than the navy Phantoms.
I remember after finishing AC4, I started again using only the F4, it was more challenging, especially the later stage. But I eventually did kill everyone in every mission.
comment for algorithm (criminally underrated channel)
The F-4 specifically is the reason I got into Ace Combat, and by extension aircraft in general. It all stemmed from playing Ace Combat 4 one day.
I am excited for this series, should be exciting, specially when the fictional aircraft start appearing, and will this also include some of the flying fortresses (like the xb-0) since they are technically a plane, just a tad bigger.
Finally another excuse for me to play every single ace combat game again!
Nice vid
The flying balalaika is only as good as you make it.
Exactly the voice I expected with that profile picture...
The Joint Assult F-4 made me cry lol 😭. But I still play both my Ace Combat X and Joint assault on my psp
Bro … I forgot about infinity … they really need to bring out a game of competitive pve air combat … so good
Still coping at how most of the AC and PW both treated F-4 as newbie starter aircrafts
Ive only pre ordered one game in my life and that was Ac7 just to fly the Phantom, i have AH but couldnt get the F-4 on that one since there werent any dlc around
i hated the f4 in ac5 but loved it in ac0 and in ac7 and infinity. the saam made it really versatile.
It would've been neat if AC7 had the Boeing Super Phantom.
Every time I remember ace combat infinity I get sad that we can't play it anymore besides the micro transactions I absolutely adore that game I just hope it comes back in the future
I fly my Phantom II in AC7
And boy it stomps in Multiplayer cause of the SASM
I killed my share of Morgans, Ravens, Falkens, Wyverns, Raptors and Felons
Maybe you could do a special episode for aircraft that are only in certain games.
My favourite plane is the xy-plane
Too bad the F-4D has never been in Ace !?
Which I thought that’s what the “F-4G” was but the D has a Shorter nose and Was the First phantom variant since the 60s anyway
This has been a fantastic poop watch.
Still, F-4X is considered underrated Phantom variant. I wish AC8 replace F-4E for F-4X as a new starter aircraft.
F-4G is actually a dedicated SEAD/DEAD aircraft. It also shouldn't have a gun.
That's why they fitted gun pods under the wings in the game.
This old chap might be weak at most aspect. But, if it weren't for this plane, we might not be able to take up to the sky by now...
F-5 next please??
Haha, he says so at the end that's the next one.
My fav figther F-5 is not that represented too sadly.
I was always annoyed that the F-4 was not available for the carrier missions in AC5.
Someone didn’t do their homework, or I guess even play AC4?
Hello, Thunderous. nice series! How did you play the PS2 games? I play on my old PS2 with its original composite cables plugged into my HDTV and it looks like garbage.
Una pena que no sacaran la cancelada actualización israelí llamado F-4 2000 super phantom, que sus cambios eran el de los motores J 79 por los F 110 de los F-16, se cambió tanto la aviónica como el radar, cómo sería usarlo en los videojuegos?
Oh hey, a new series
*Gets to acah section*
Really?
cool vid
would be nice to have some real life context for these craft in future but I'd understand if you wanna keep it strictly AC
do a f14 next time
It's fast. Follow it. This will be your final lesson.