I've been saying it for a long time though that I would like healer more if I was more focused on sustained healing through the dungeons and less of a "Heal this massive spike but still be a good off spec dps"
After watching beta it looks like a lot of healers are complaining more than tanks. Despite what it says the goals are tanks are getting hit for 90% health through mitigation with every tank buster and don't have the tools to mitigate them all. On a +10 SoB a BDK was globaled on pull with rune weapon up. DPS players are getting hit for nearly 50% of their health by some spells so its still just as spiky. And there have been several times when everyone is taking massive amounts and there is just nothing healers can do.
Tanks have not become more durable, compared to non-tanks.In fact the exact opposite has occurred. I hate to say it and it’s a strong word, but blizzards essay is filled with lies; sometimes within the next paragraph or 2 to 3 down. Healers do not want to heal tanks more. This is just making the game worse for everybody as you can no longer pull big and you can only pull one or two packs at a time. It’s Harrison Bergeron to handicap those who are want to push and be rewarded full out
Haha Sure, Blizz Get ready for that awesome and fantastic Tank Kiting meta from early BFA to return. But just trust Blizzard that is definitely NOT going to happen. Things will be fine
Tanking and healing should be challenging, but not hard. You want to make it accessible to most players, so you don't have shortages for either class. I want to see less DPS requirements for healers and more healing done. The healer shouldn't have to fill in to compensate for a lack of DPS in the group.
Simple fact is that tanks being more responsible for their health has allowed blizzard to be bolder with mostly dungeon mechanics. Lots of casts, rot damage, group damage, AoEs, etc. So lowering overall tank survivability is definitely going to make dungeons harder across the board if they remain so mechanically dense.
That was my first thought as well. The new dungeons coming are just as dense as if not more with mechanics. It's already unfun to heal in DF and if tank durability goes down its only going to be even more stressful and we'll return to healer shortages.
@@jonlane6527 im guessing you didnt heal during bfa. Things were imo significantly better balanced back then when tanks did require some healing. The designs now for healers are all group dmg focused and thats it tanks have 0 actual mechanucs they need a healer for aka good tank buster events. I remember plently from bfa which would hit a tank hard for an extended period of time, not just a singke spike then nothing. It woukd allow bliz to design more tank focused mechanics that arent just press a cd or get 1 shot.
@@James_Johnson79 and at the start of cataclysm blizzard adjusted heroic dungeons to require more healing, cc and better tank play in general, which this tank change is basically doing, add in the dungeon change and that this is the start of a new expansion so gear will be lower in general than it was for season 4, I can’t help but feel like this is going to be a Pooh show. It took like one month (if that) for cata heroic dungeons to be nerfed so bad they became rush feats and no challenge what so ever.
I get it but this is incredibly outdated thinking give the amount of personal responsibility - swirlies, fire, no go zones - as well as incoming casts, AoE and rot damage. Like it or not it’s a team game that requires everyone help with every roll.
I was / am considering main tanking this coming Xpac and my first option was Blood but being new I thought that might be too risky and too punishing learning and such. Then I decided to pivot to Druid or Monk and still thinking that even after these changes. I am a little more nervous on idea of tanking but IF Blizz does there job correctly this might make getting into tanking a little easier. I am curious what others who a tanking now or like me thinking of getting into tanking. Also Zuco what are your thoughts for a brand new tank going into War with these changes -- Thanks
I mean the devil is in the details and implementation on this one and I have my doubts that they will get it right especially for all 6 tank classes. I liked the amount of agency we had in Dragonflight and honestly tanking m+ has felt about as good as tanking has ever been ignoring the VDH having far to much control problem.
Blood dk analysis is not entirely corect. How it works now is that for 5 seconds you get to heal based on the damage taken in the last 5 seconds or a minimum threshold. With the change, this big healing from last 10 seconds damage will apply to only 1 deathstrike, because the damage instances will get cleared after 1 use. If i got a big hit before, I could spam DS for those 5 seconds to get big heals. With this change it will only happen once
Sorta. I’ve tested it out, you generally stack up more before you have the gcd to ds again. Very few minimal dses, also our minimal dses are much bigger because of the 60% stam increase. I copied my character over to beta again and was soloing some M0, still feels better than live, even without hero talents just due to the tree change and stam increase
This is what I've been pushing for. Good to hear they're aiming for a more attrition style combat. Tank defensives and healing should help you slow your death long enough for your actual healer you bring you back up. It will also make sustain on tanks feel more valuable and impactful. Big win for healers too, they will actually get to do the thing they were designed to do...
While I feel like overall this is a good change, I think the feeling of being immortal is what drives a lot of people to play tanks, with that gone you will have more people just wanting to play DPS and end up with a tank shortage if this isn't implemented very carefully.
Great changes. Blizz is asking tanks to take a small hit to survivability to improve everyone else's life. Will S1 be a hot mess? Probably, but that’s normal with an xpac.
Unfortunately, bringing this change so late into beta makes me sad. They could've let people test it for longer in the new raid and dungeons. Now we'll have to do the entire process of testing in the first few months of the season. And everyone will be a part of this. This is disrespectful to the players and their time. I agree with what they're trying to do but now was not the moment to do it.
I mean... There's a ton of us testing everything every day on the Beta. They still have a month until official release. There's still time to tweak any serious problems with this.
@@ZucoWoW Too many things will have to be changed and tuned. The classes themselves, their talents, mechanics, abilities etc are not designed with this in mind. It's not going to be just a matter of changing numbers and voila, we have an acceptable result. Forgive me for not being so optimistic about them doing a decent job in a month or so. Then there's also the content and the design of the NPCs' abilities, how often they do damage etc. It seems to me there's a ton of things to be adjusted. They will be, but 1 month is a very short period of time, knowing Blizzard's pace at fixing things. They generally make some changes, then wait days, weeks, until they do the next ones. I can't wait to be proven wrong and things to be decent when the 1st season starts. BTW, I love they way you explain things. Cheers.
these changes look very promising! As a healer, hopefully this means we'll be less reliant on our cooldowns, and more reliant on our pure healing output/spells. I hate only playing around cooldowns (season 4) it makes the rest of my kit feel limp
BRO! I know i should react to the tank changes. I apologize, but DID YOU SAW THE ENCH SHAMAN TALENT CHANGES?!??! Witch doctor 1p, Imp maelstrom weapon 1p, molten assault 1p, Doomwinds 1 min insted of 1,5?!?!?!? (chrash lightning 12yard?!) I...I..I'm uuh, sorry again. Uhhm Jeah! Greath tank changes! we need that... i mean, them. (im a healer so... we'll see 😅)
@@25rsimp It will take a few months, because they are stubborn. We'll all be their testers in the first few months. And they're talking about "respecting our time".
This is a great way to make queue times longer and lose subs. Way to go blizzard. The game is on fire, tons of bugs and non functional hero specs plus half the specs in the game haven’t received needed talent updates with a few weeks left until pre-patch. But sure let’s focus on weakening tanks.
100% agree people only care about meters rn in dungeons. People fail mechanics now much more soo then they have in the past. People just quit caring about mechanics.
@@jonlane6527 its worth a shot, at the moment the gameplay isnt super intriguing, its allright, but we cant keep doing the same thing over and over. Stuff has to evolve.
Yes, because tanks dont even need healers anymore, they got way to strong, Tanks power level is soo far past every other role its annoying, they needed to be nerfed and actually be TANKS and not Tanks, healers and dps. This is a great change, we need more of this. They dont even use healers on some keys now, the game is broken as is this helps it.
Yeah, and since tanks are so overpowered right now we have way too many of them...oh wait, the most sought after role? But why if they are such perfect gods?
This is a great change, only people upset about this are bad tanks who need to be gods to be able to progress. The game use to be, If healers don't heal well tanks die and if tanks dont hold aggro everyone dies, Thats how it should be and this leans more into that way, everyone cries about how wow was better back in the day but then bitch when the devs take a step to back in that era. I wish they didnt even announce this change and just did it behind the scenes so people wouldn't have an excuse to why they suck.
Great, and when all those "bad tanks" give up and roll BM then I'm sure that's going to positively affect que times and pug formation...I mean right now tanks are a dime and dozen and clogging up the pipes...
I've been saying it for a long time though that I would like healer more if I was more focused on sustained healing through the dungeons and less of a "Heal this massive spike but still be a good off spec dps"
Healing on the beta has been pretty rough prior to the tank nerfs
Was the 60% stamina already in before? I hear you say before tanks might have 10 million health, that would be 16million if the 60% is still coming
@@mark0211 The increased HP has already been in the beta, so, no 16m hp... Not yet anyway... By the end of the expansion, absolutely
Tanks are mad, Healers are happy and Dps isn't paying attention like usual.
After watching beta it looks like a lot of healers are complaining more than tanks. Despite what it says the goals are tanks are getting hit for 90% health through mitigation with every tank buster and don't have the tools to mitigate them all. On a +10 SoB a BDK was globaled on pull with rune weapon up. DPS players are getting hit for nearly 50% of their health by some spells so its still just as spiky. And there have been several times when everyone is taking massive amounts and there is just nothing healers can do.
Tanks have not become more durable, compared to non-tanks.In fact the exact opposite has occurred. I hate to say it and it’s a strong word, but blizzards essay is filled with lies; sometimes within the next paragraph or 2 to 3 down. Healers do not want to heal tanks more. This is just making the game worse for everybody as you can no longer pull big and you can only pull one or two packs at a time. It’s Harrison Bergeron to handicap those who are want to push and be rewarded full out
Haha Sure, Blizz
Get ready for that awesome and fantastic Tank Kiting meta from early BFA to return.
But just trust Blizzard that is definitely NOT going to happen. Things will be fine
Just like what happened on Shadowlands S1 Kiting meta tank
i mean before we say anything, lets see how it pans out when blizzard introduce it. Sounds great .... but then again, it always SOUNDS great.
Overall not bad changes but I feel like BDK is getting screwed with the changes to blood shield.
Blood DK will be just fine.
Already tested, it’s fine
Know what is crazy? People are having their feedback deleted by Blizz about this topic. What a joke Blizz.
Sounds good, but very similar thing happened for Dragonflight, so we'll see how this will play out
Great change! This will make dungeons more interesting, this should give tanking and healing more depth
Tanking and healing should be challenging, but not hard. You want to make it accessible to most players, so you don't have shortages for either class. I want to see less DPS requirements for healers and more healing done. The healer shouldn't have to fill in to compensate for a lack of DPS in the group.
Simple fact is that tanks being more responsible for their health has allowed blizzard to be bolder with mostly dungeon mechanics.
Lots of casts, rot damage, group damage, AoEs, etc.
So lowering overall tank survivability is definitely going to make dungeons harder across the board if they remain so mechanically dense.
I have a feeling this is going to be cataclysm heroics all over again.
@@Hell0spawn0doug doubtful. I mean m+ is actually difficult. 😒
That was my first thought as well. The new dungeons coming are just as dense as if not more with mechanics. It's already unfun to heal in DF and if tank durability goes down its only going to be even more stressful and we'll return to healer shortages.
@@jonlane6527 im guessing you didnt heal during bfa. Things were imo significantly better balanced back then when tanks did require some healing.
The designs now for healers are all group dmg focused and thats it tanks have 0 actual mechanucs they need a healer for aka good tank buster events. I remember plently from bfa which would hit a tank hard for an extended period of time, not just a singke spike then nothing.
It woukd allow bliz to design more tank focused mechanics that arent just press a cd or get 1 shot.
@@James_Johnson79 and at the start of cataclysm blizzard adjusted heroic dungeons to require more healing, cc and better tank play in general, which this tank change is basically doing, add in the dungeon change and that this is the start of a new expansion so gear will be lower in general than it was for season 4, I can’t help but feel like this is going to be a Pooh show. It took like one month (if that) for cata heroic dungeons to be nerfed so bad they became rush feats and no challenge what so ever.
If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault. If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault. If the dd dies, it's his own fault.
I get it but this is incredibly outdated thinking give the amount of personal responsibility - swirlies, fire, no go zones - as well as incoming casts, AoE and rot damage.
Like it or not it’s a team game that requires everyone help with every roll.
I was / am considering main tanking this coming Xpac and my first option was Blood but being new I thought that might be too risky and too punishing learning and such. Then I decided to pivot to Druid or Monk and still thinking that even after these changes. I am a little more nervous on idea of tanking but IF Blizz does there job correctly this might make getting into tanking a little easier. I am curious what others who a tanking now or like me thinking of getting into tanking. Also Zuco what are your thoughts for a brand new tank going into War with these changes -- Thanks
This is only a good thing if they do it right.
It's always felt bad playing a "tank" and yet my health falls as fast as someone in cloth gear.
wut
I mean the devil is in the details and implementation on this one and I have my doubts that they will get it right especially for all 6 tank classes. I liked the amount of agency we had in Dragonflight and honestly tanking m+ has felt about as good as tanking has ever been ignoring the VDH having far to much control problem.
Wow is cooking!!!! Let’s goooooo!
Blood dk analysis is not entirely corect. How it works now is that for 5 seconds you get to heal based on the damage taken in the last 5 seconds or a minimum threshold. With the change, this big healing from last 10 seconds damage will apply to only 1 deathstrike, because the damage instances will get cleared after 1 use. If i got a big hit before, I could spam DS for those 5 seconds to get big heals. With this change it will only happen once
Sorta. I’ve tested it out, you generally stack up more before you have the gcd to ds again. Very few minimal dses, also our minimal dses are much bigger because of the 60% stam increase. I copied my character over to beta again and was soloing some M0, still feels better than live, even without hero talents just due to the tree change and stam increase
It's going to be interesting, looking forward to healing in TWW.
This is what I've been pushing for. Good to hear they're aiming for a more attrition style combat. Tank defensives and healing should help you slow your death long enough for your actual healer you bring you back up. It will also make sustain on tanks feel more valuable and impactful. Big win for healers too, they will actually get to do the thing they were designed to do...
While I feel like overall this is a good change, I think the feeling of being immortal is what drives a lot of people to play tanks, with that gone you will have more people just wanting to play DPS and end up with a tank shortage if this isn't implemented very carefully.
These changes are with shaman tank in mind? 🎉
Great changes. Blizz is asking tanks to take a small hit to survivability to improve everyone else's life. Will S1 be a hot mess? Probably, but that’s normal with an xpac.
Atm tanks are just a dps with aggro, not a whole lot of depth in that gameplay
Play higher keys.
You clearly have never tanked
@@kalasmournrex1470 sure i have, monk and dk
Unfortunately, bringing this change so late into beta makes me sad. They could've let people test it for longer in the new raid and dungeons. Now we'll have to do the entire process of testing in the first few months of the season. And everyone will be a part of this. This is disrespectful to the players and their time. I agree with what they're trying to do but now was not the moment to do it.
I mean... There's a ton of us testing everything every day on the Beta. They still have a month until official release. There's still time to tweak any serious problems with this.
@@ZucoWoW Too many things will have to be changed and tuned. The classes themselves, their talents, mechanics, abilities etc are not designed with this in mind. It's not going to be just a matter of changing numbers and voila, we have an acceptable result. Forgive me for not being so optimistic about them doing a decent job in a month or so. Then there's also the content and the design of the NPCs' abilities, how often they do damage etc. It seems to me there's a ton of things to be adjusted. They will be, but 1 month is a very short period of time, knowing Blizzard's pace at fixing things. They generally make some changes, then wait days, weeks, until they do the next ones. I can't wait to be proven wrong and things to be decent when the 1st season starts. BTW, I love they way you explain things. Cheers.
these changes look very promising! As a healer, hopefully this means we'll be less reliant on our cooldowns, and more reliant on our pure healing output/spells. I hate only playing around cooldowns (season 4) it makes the rest of my kit feel limp
BRO! I know i should react to the tank changes. I apologize, but DID YOU SAW THE ENCH SHAMAN TALENT CHANGES?!??! Witch doctor 1p, Imp maelstrom weapon 1p, molten assault 1p, Doomwinds 1 min insted of 1,5?!?!?!? (chrash lightning 12yard?!) I...I..I'm uuh, sorry again. Uhhm Jeah! Greath tank changes! we need that... i mean, them. (im a healer so... we'll see 😅)
Sounds good on paper...
Going to be great in game too.
@@strugl3snugle245 I'm just worried about the amount of time that will be needed to tune this when we are so close to launch.
@@25rsimp It will take a few months, because they are stubborn. We'll all be their testers in the first few months. And they're talking about "respecting our time".
I know youre reading it out but can you please zoom? Literally squinting to read what youre highlighting
Healers having to heal? that's amazing news tbh
Based zuco take as usual
Terrible changes with how the dungeons are with mechanic bloat and spiky damage.
This is a great way to make queue times longer and lose subs. Way to go blizzard.
The game is on fire, tons of bugs and non functional hero specs plus half the specs in the game haven’t received needed talent updates with a few weeks left until pre-patch.
But sure let’s focus on weakening tanks.
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
I love this so much. It’s the style I grew up playing. I hate kiting as a tank
I only made it to 10 mins in, I feel dumber for having listened to your take. :(
This will give the game better gameplay, not some adhd rush to the finish look at the damagemeters gameplay
100% agree people only care about meters rn in dungeons. People fail mechanics now much more soo then they have in the past.
People just quit caring about mechanics.
They did this once already at the beginning of shadowlands. And it went very poorly. Hopefully they learned from that but im skeptical.
@@jonlane6527 its worth a shot, at the moment the gameplay isnt super intriguing, its allright, but we cant keep doing the same thing over and over. Stuff has to evolve.
This is Shit they nerf tanks because some 0.1% of player play 1tank and 4dd fu that
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Yes, because tanks dont even need healers anymore, they got way to strong, Tanks power level is soo far past every other role its annoying, they needed to be nerfed and actually be TANKS and not Tanks, healers and dps. This is a great change, we need more of this. They dont even use healers on some keys now, the game is broken as is this helps it.
Listen to raid leaders talk about their tanks and they say “they handle themselves” even in mythic. They’ve been overturned for a long time.
@@Arthas747 nah, even as a brewmaster, I can clear heroic raids and 90% of my healing taken is self heal/absorbs ; tanks are busted rn
Yeah, and since tanks are so overpowered right now we have way too many of them...oh wait, the most sought after role? But why if they are such perfect gods?
Soo many tanks crying right now
And Healer😂
Naw, this seems way more fun, we want a challenge not a cake walk.
Brewmaster mains are celebrating :DD
@@friezeray I said the same to my buddy
Id say soo many fakey tank players. Tank players that essentially are onpy playing it because its soo ez in df.
This is a great change, only people upset about this are bad tanks who need to be gods to be able to progress. The game use to be, If healers don't heal well tanks die and if tanks dont hold aggro everyone dies, Thats how it should be and this leans more into that way, everyone cries about how wow was better back in the day but then bitch when the devs take a step to back in that era. I wish they didnt even announce this change and just did it behind the scenes so people wouldn't have an excuse to why they suck.
Great, and when all those "bad tanks" give up and roll BM then I'm sure that's going to positively affect que times and pug formation...I mean right now tanks are a dime and dozen and clogging up the pipes...
@@Luckie-fm6npagreed, bad idea with these nerfs one week before it drops... well played blizz
Yea dude, that's why all the top tanks don't like it, coz they're so bad, hahaha