for the deja vu bois yes, this is a reupload, originally uploaded on 19th October 2021 on the original crinacle channel before it was aliven't. RIP to OG crinacle :(
You can clearly see that Crin is still a noob in the audio space. Burn-in is absolutely real and the 200 hours that the tiktok mentioned is really accurate. But you don’t have to lose your return warranty. That’s why I burn in my new purchases by playing music through it at 2x or 2.5x speed. Then they are burnt in in a couple of days and you still have time to return them.
2x and 2.5x is just how fast the music goes and in term of real time 2x 2.5x does not make the time that you suppose to burn-in goes quicker its just that you burn the fucking music not the headphone. You may want to learn how time work first
@@BlazingKhioneus the bass boosted version works even better with expensive headphones that have 2 drivers on each side. it helps to "loosen up" that LF driver
If the manufacturer recommends 200 hours of use before the customer uses the product, then that should be done during the manufacturing process and before sale.
ikr like why tf should I leave my headphones, that I paid my hard earned money for, out for a whole week just blasting noise? Do it in the factory, I wanna put them on right away and listen to music.
Too bad burn in doesn't exist in modern speaker and it's a placebo effect. Most people feel their new speakers are too bright but after several listening sessions naturally adjust but blame it on the product and not their ears. It is a real thing in vintage speakers but materials have improved.
It's kind of stupid to buy a product if you don't like the sound or haven't listened to the actual product. Burn in time just means with use + time the product should sound better, but I've had a lot of products (especially headphones go from good sounding to bad sounding with time + use).
I can confirm that the burn-in works. When listening to the same headphones at 120dB for 200 hours It does perfectly shape my ears to the frequency response of the headphones. In terms of hearing loss. It's like buying a new pair of shoes and realizing they're too small, so you just trim your feet to the shape of the shoes. You'll be fine.
@@kawaiikoto8800 if burn-in causes a predictable change in response you could just measure pre burn-in and compare to the reference and not need to burn in to QA the product. That said, if even Dan Clark says burn-in is a thing (on specific headphones as he claims) that is real, it should be measurable.
They probably do QA tests then get it out the door ASAP, Lotta companies Don't want to have a standing pile of stock waiting for burn-in tests, real or otherwise companies want stock out the door as fast as they can manage
agreed, especially because these tiktokers almost definitely watch crinacle. The feedback from these tiktoks being made and then crinicle reacting could honestly probably lead to the tiktoks becoming better
Nah don’t mind watching it again, it’s fun regardless. Also if anyone is wondering, yes, Crin does show his twin brother in this video. Who is also an audiophile coincidentally
Reminds me of this AVGN video where he talks about how people assume that just because you are a relative of someome that is a famous pro baseball player, that the relative is automatically good at baseball too
My biggest argument against 'burn-in' is that during the time it takes to achieve this theoretical 'burn-in', your ears (and mind) become familiar with and adapt to the sound. 2 months later does the thing actually sound 'better', or have you just gotten used to it? It's impossible to know unless maybe you directly compare a 'burnt in' item to the exact same item without burn-in.
even your ears burn-in thru out your life to compensate hearing loss caused by age and other factors. Usually you cannot notice it happening and stay functional with your hearing. Especially people listening lots of music and/or playing/producing music learn how to listen. No driver/speaker element is made the way they need to burn in. With use the sound will change mostly in bad ways. Good quality headphones/headsets stay good for a long time.
@@aallonhuippuveikko1476I wish I could hear as well as I could when I was young but I wore headphones a lot and played in live punk rock bands without ear protection. I was dumb
@@casedistorted I see this said so much and it's terrifying. I love the immersion, loud volume feels like the sounds are actually surrounding me, but lowering the volume makes the scene feel more far away and distant, and even less real. I don't want to ruin the immersion but I am also scared of hearing damage. I'm not quite sure what to do, I already have tinnitus that is a bit too noticeable for my liking. I think investing in better headphones that can offer more immersion at lower volumes is probably a good move, and taking breaks is also a good move. I spend almost all day everyday with headphones on listening to something and that has to be horrible for my ears.
I don't know because I wasn't wearing headphones that were being "burned in". I just cranked up Hardcore Nation 2 on the FiiO E10K and left them in the bathroom. I don't think it made any difference with Soundmagic E11
@@narvi5779 I'd recommend looking into quadraphonic headphones / surround sound headsets or anything else like that to replicate the effect I think you might be talking about. Also, most audio sources actually have a measurably different frequency curve ( part of what dictates the practical quality of a headset/speakers/etc. ) at different volumes, so it's also possible your headset is legitimately reproducing audio less accurately at lower volume. The only real solution is to replace it with one that reproduces audio the way you want it to at lower volumes, which might unfortunately require either finding a store that lets you try them on before you buy, or buying & returning a number of headsets until you find one that works for you. Alternatively, if you don't mind having a less portable audio setup, hi-fi speakers ( Dayton Audio, Klipsch, Elac, etc. ) especially passive speakers on a good amplifier, will usually have a much larger soundstage ( The perceived distance/separation between different sounds ) than smaller speakers or headsets, which might make for a better sense of immersion without needing much volume.
3:17 It's funny cause with breaking in sneakers, most shops explicitly will say you can return them so long as they haven't been worn outside and aren't dirty. You don't see shoe geeks or sneaker companies telling you that you need to trek through mud and over sharp rocks to break in your sneakers.
To be fair about the XM4s, most of the top recommendations for them cite them as the best "wireless noise-canceling" headphones. Not the best headphones, not the best wireless headphones, but the best in value for wireless ANC headphones. And I think in that category, it's really, really good.
@@minerscale Same. I fly a lot for work and the noise cancellation is really good. The Momentum 4s and PX7 S2 sound better, but the ANC is just lovely in the Sony’s
Listening to my Sony WH-XB900N now and yes they can be very bassy but they’re also very customizable in the app. There’s even somewhat useful feature where the app will try to come up with an EQ based on your sound preferences.
Crin has been a star in the portable audio hobby for at least a few years, and his personality translated really well into being a funny+informative RUclipsr
"Burn in" does actually apply to full size speakers with a rubber surround.. athough "break in" would better describe the effect. Freshly molded/extruded rubber is slightly stiffer than "worn in" rubber. However, this is mostly just to avoid damage from running the speaker too hard (spl test or just cranking heavy bass songs at full volume immediately after installing).. thr sound profile of the speaker dossnt significantly change. Also, I do think burn in exists for headphones in the sense everuone here is talking about (aka the diaphram changing in sound signature after being excited over time).. however that burn in period is about 5 seconds.. and that could very easily take place at the factory if the quality control the product before shipping. Im not going to test it, and the effect would be minimal or nebligable.. but physics would imply that a slight change in the material properties would most likely change over time to varying degrees depending on the material.
It's derived that from mechanical stuff and there it really exists, for example in freshley revised car engines you should fill in a special running-in oil that differs from normal oils (less viscosity and almost no additives) for the first few hundred to a thousand kilometres so the components can grind in and you should avoid flat out and revving to high meanwhile; it's then removed and replaced by normal engine oil. And of course you should also let the engine get warm before you really hit the accelerator, because the cold oil runs far slower (higher viscosity) than warm oil and it may happen, that there isn't enough lubing at the points of friction if you flat out a cold engine. The German car magazine "auto motor und sport" also managed to let the then-new Sharan Mk II fail in the brake test, it's brake performance clearly faded (so braking distance increased), but of course, the vehicle was brand new, they later re-tested it with >1000 kilometres mileage and it didn't fade, because the brake rotors and pads were now ground in and it had a better braking performance without fading. Also on my job, I work as a turner and with a fresh carbide insert/cutting edge some tools cut a little rougher or make more noise than with a cutting edge that already has some wear. And yes, of course the speaker membranes work mechanically, especially the rubber surroundings, but I don't think it will change the sound significantly if you let run-in for a bunch of hours, you should rather let the tubes/valves get warm if you're using such an amplifier. 😉
the old method of having the engine parts 'gently grind' against each other for a 'perfect seat' doesn't really apply anymore given the improved fabrication techniques and materials producing parts w/ much finer tolerances and greater consistency. back to electronics, in the pro world the 'burn in' is usually referred to a period of intense testing in order to weed out eventual failures and it can imply heat and/or mechanical stress. @@AdamOwenBrowning
I pretty much use my WH1000-XM3's every day for work calls and walking around listening to podcasts, and it's always kinda crazy going back to my more neutral Hifiman Edition XS or Dunu SA6 and can hear voices so much clearer because they aren't drowned out by muddy bass.
Serious question, how can you use it for phonecalls? The voicemic is so terrible that everytime I use it while on the phone I either have to shout or disconnect and use the phone instead because people can barely hear me 😅 I have 2 sets, bought a year apart.
@@Dianophi Same the mic is garbage, I don't do/receive much calls, but I do used in meetings and depending of the software (google meet/zoom) it does an acceptable job, nowhere near the quality of the airpods pro mic though.
@@ismajim yea I tend to not use it for calls because of it. I like them overall (but would never have paid the full price for them if I needed, since I don't think they are worth it)
I'm an owner of the Sony WH-1000MX4. I bought them not so much for their audio quality as for the features. I found the active noise cancellation pretty good, which is a must in my situation, and being able to play both wired and wireless is a big plus for me. I had been looking around for good alternatives that offer the same features but haven't been able to find any, though I'd gladly take recommendations.
I find that you can make the XM4s sound significantly better with some basic EQ adjustments. Granted, they are muddy and heavy on the bass out of the box so I recommend anyone to turn down the bass boost when you can.
As for me, my burn-in take us that if you use one pair of headphones for quite a long time, swapping to another pair with a completely different soundstage will be a little unfamiliar at first. Shocking I know. And then after a while you’ll get more accustomed to it. I don’t think it’s anything having to do with the internal components, just what we’re psychologically accustomed to. I wouldn’t want to buy a car that comes with the warning “drive for about 2 weeks in order to really get the car working up to spec”.
Exactly my thoughts as well. And if you change back to your old headphones their sound will be strange, nothing to do with "burning in", just getting used to it.
The EQ dip at 250-500hz is the industry "standard" way of EQing during mastering for pop, EDM and similar music for the big names btw. Now, yes, this IS a good thing usually, HOWEVER, the issue is that producers tend to know what they're doing, and so if necessary, they will already have done that EQ in the track before release. Doing it again just ruins it. As for honk, if anyone is confused, think of TV when connected to speakers and theres dialogue and the audio is loud. That WHONK sound that comes out, like a resonant frequency, sometimes. Thats what Crinacle is talking about here. You dont want to boost that effect. You really don't want to.
To me burn in effect people are talking about is just getting used to the frequency the headphones you just bought are at. if you're new to the hobby the little details are hard to notice, but my daily driver is HD6XX and I bought arias a few months ago. It was surprising to see how much I got used to the HD6XX sound, versus that of a more bass focused sound.
Yeah it's just your mind and perception adjusting to the new sound signature. It's sensory adaptation. I sometimes will like a pair of headphones more after a few weeks of listening because I've grown used to the sound.
@@mrjuanderfuI i constantly change headphones/headsets..... my sennheiser's and skullcandy's did burn-in....that bass kicked in... all the others sound the same as when i first got them....
@@mrjuanderfuI ..... i've only had 2 pair that the sound got better on after playing them for a week... could have just been my pair... like how you get some items that don't work as intended and must be repaired or traded....
Yeah, whenever I get new headphones or speakers, they always sound a little strange to me at first, but after a while I get used to them and they sound good to me. So I could see why someone might think they were "burned in." But then I try to listen on my old headphones after not listening to them in a long time, and then they sound weird to me. It's just your brain getting used to it IMO.
luckily i live in the uk where return window is legally 14 days (unless you specifically sign a thing saying nintendo can keep your money forever) so i can burn in these headphones for a full 200 hours and only waste £20 of electricity, £10 in postage and my dignity
I started my audiophile life as a bass head when I was around 10 or 11 with the Turtle Beach X12s The bass on those things were INSANE and as a child, the feeling of my whole skull vibrating was just fun. But eventually when I got properly into music and sound in general I SWIFTLY learned that, though bass is important, if you have even just slightly too much, you ruin everything.
I was cured of 'audiophilia' when I started playing bass live. Everywhere from studios to arenas. None of it sounds like a final produced recording. So to MY ears, 'tight' 'controlled' bass some love is to my ears completely sterile and unnatural. Bass never attacks and immediately decays. A bit of bloat is perfectly normal, real. If a headphone therefore bloats bass within reason, give it here!
I can kind of see that for a certain amount of bass boost. To be frank, most album mixes and even many live mixes do not push the bass near enough (at least in non bass focused genre like rock). However, if the bass boost extends too high in frequency that is often when it sounds bloated. You can make the bass louder without making it bloated. And of course EQ exists, so it always works to push the bass a little on a more neutral headphone. If a headphone sounds bloated, it really indicates that they tuned it poorly. Again, you can get bassy headphones that are not bloated.
@@drgrandmaster3786 Exactly. Muddiness is a no no. In real life PA mixing that's sound guys who haven't a clue what they're doing. You want that subwoofer bass you _feel_ to start, plus some midbass push, then back off so the entire range of mids and treble can shine. This actually adds great articulation to higher registers of bass guitars. The result is lively as hell but well balanced.
The point isn't to sound like a final produced recording when playing live. As a touring musician at studios, arenas, lollapalooza, zappanale, etc, it's about the performance. Bass never attacks and decays immediately? Aight.
@@tyranosurasmax Never said that was or should be the point of live performance. I'm speaking of _product reviews_ which praise headphones with 'tight' (ie restrained) bass as being some gold standard. The Edifier TWS1 Pro earbuds come to mind. They're _great_ sounding earbuds at any price, very detailed and natural sounding with a little EQ to tame the default brightness, but minimal mid bass presence or worse, sub bass extension. That isn't 'accurate' ime, not even compared to many other earbuds. I'm also saying live experience across multiple venue types and music genres has given me better perspective of bass in the wild. That's all I'm saying there lollapalooza 🤘🙃
I believe burn-in does exist for *some* analogue components, mainly tubes in tube amplifiers, and speakers that use classic membrane vibrations to produce sound. I would also argue that this matters above ~10 cm of the speaker. The components in IEM's and Headphones are usually too small that you get any kind of material stretching from constant use. And especially non-membrane technology, like planar headphones, do not have any burn-in. The same goes for anything digital, obviously.
As someone who’s had the wh-1000xm4s I will say that they do come a bit bassy, but there’s an easy app to customize the frequencies, so you can easily counteract the negatives
@@John-lw7bz On no planet am I ever criticising or complaining about a microphone on a wireless headphone. Who cares? As long as the other person can hear me
"At this point I'd consider it like playing chess with a pigeon." Lol. Or discussing burn in with a pigeon. If someone says a phenomenon exists, the onus is on them to demonstrate that is true, not the other way around. It's Russell's teapot. It has been tested enough to demonstrate it either doesn't exist or the effect is very small. But believers will cling on with special pleading.
What burn in time can do is allow your brain to adjust to the sound signature and work with motivated reasoning to begin to like what you didnt like at first. Sometimes
I have the first gen of the XM's and have been using them daily for years now...The battery is still great, the plastic has been lasting pretty well, and with a proper AptX bluetooth adapter they sound decent enough to me on PC... No bass issues for me while gaming or listening to Spotify. I also used them during long flights and they were amazing at noise canceling everything. They were great for sleeping too (with no music but NC enabled). Confused why you hate them so much lol...
-Throw Beats in the bin -buy something just as crappy that TikTokers logic bruh And since EVERYONE fucking promotes them: The old beyerdynamics are traaash bruh. Had the DT990 for years hated them. Bought the Sundara for fucking 300$ plus Pads and they are so insanely good compared to any audio producing device ive ever heard in my life.
Crin, the XM4s may not be the greatest at sound (I agree with that, I had to EQ them a lot before they sounded good) but sound is not the only reason why people buy headphones. Comfort is another big factor, and these are damn good at that. I can't say for everyone, but you can lay on these headphones while wearing them and not feel them dig into your head. Also, the noise cancellation. Not only is it really powerful but it can also adapt to different envirments and atmosphere pressures, making them great for travelling.
deja vu time well spent. congrats crin, your way to explain stuff and not just punch them in the face is awesome! btw hearing you explaining stuff with your HD800S on, using mine lol.
You don't have to "burn them in", it's just flexing the driver suspension and will happen all by itself when listening to them. It will probably increase bass output very slightly over time. Whether you notice it or not is debatable.
I bought the wh-1000xm4 for a similar reason I bought my AirPods Pro. They are convenient for my travel needs with the long battery and ANC and were very cheap on sale on black friday. I can tell they're definitely not accurate but hey they make commutes, where you're not exactly in a quiet room trying to get the "experience" of music, much more fun. I got them for $180 at target with a gift card and at that price I think they're great
10/10 worth the rewatch for the YT algo gods. F to pay respects to the OG Crinacle channel. Amazed at how well you rolled with that punch, Crin. I would have been completely demoralized.
2:42 "I might be making a lot of these corporations sound more evil than they actually are" I can guarantee you the 200 hour burn in comment is by far one of the most tame and harmless ways a corporation will try to increase their profit. You my friend have way too much optimism in corporations' moral compass. Their moral compasses point south my brother
I have the nuraphone, and I think they're a lot of fun, they have separate subwoofers behind your ears so you can have very loud bass without distorting the audio, or you can turn it all the way down. It's just fun. When you get the fit and profile right, they sound great, but it's not always perfect, so you might have to redo the process sometimes. Other than that, they may be the most uncomfortable headphones on the planet. All the weight of the aluminium body rests on the in ear bits. Still fun, and you do get used to it, but it takes a while.
At 16:29 you mention Nura's sound personalization and how they analyze your ear and how it adjusts your HRTF, but HRTFs relate more to how sounds are perceived in sound fields rather than direct sound through headphones. The HRTF can turn direct sound like through headphones into a more "spatial" sound but Nura makes a personalized EQ not based on your HRTF but rather your inner ear through OAE. For a full HRTF you would need a spatial audio setup so the pinna, head shape, chest and so on could be taken into account. Via OAE you can create a 2D EQ adjustment to balance out any places where you have a low OAE response. Also Nura has been making headphones for over 5 years and their customization is nothing new
@@cringeginge7663 htrf is just like windows sonic or dolby atmos. it makes it easier to hear things behind and around you using binaural audio. htrf isn't even like a thing in audiophile spaces
@@Scrappy-RUclips HRTF is common in 3D and EQ, and it's used in 7.1 / 5.1 / 4ch processing, because it's feeding either discrete channels into a stereo mix, or rendering Atmos/Object encoded audio ie games and 7.1 channel sound into stereo (most common). It's very common. It's also often "sold" as various technologies. 3D sound, spatial audio, Dolby Headphones. Gaming Audio,Virtual 7.1, Transparency or Ambient audio, et al. It uses similar effects and DSP processing. The technology used to make ANC work, also allows EQ, mixing of channels and input/microphones, also allows for spatial/virtual/Gaming/HRTF/3D audio depending on the DSP used. You might see it labelled as Virtual 7.1 or Dolby Headphones for Atmos, or Dolby Atmos, or Dolby ProLogic, DTS Headphones, et al. Sometimes it's just decoding the 7.1 into headphone mixes. Or, it's adding echo/reverb to stereo for fake 7.1. or using a DSP for EQ to fake a 7.1 mix with reverb/processing in the EQ to mix stereo into a 'false room' using only EQ processing. It gets complicated. Usually because of Dolby Headphones/Atmos being commercial products. While HRTF is binaural, Binaural is often "Real" recordings (made with head-mounted microphones or the dummy head microphone model) , while HRTF is fake, rendered/object created, or synthetic/emulated binaural. Or its used to compress discrete channels ie. Atmos/DTS content. Or it's feeding the discrete and mixed channels (Dolby Surround / ProLogic/Atmos or AAC/MP4/Vorbis mixed channels) that have a separated stereo and room reverb function / mode that is sort of treated like a Room EQ. This is also a form of Object Audio or positional audio, where it's generating a mix of either 3D positions that the software has to emulate, or it's a mix of speaker output like Center/Side channel data that gets mixed into the Left/Side/Height channels and Center/Subwoofer channels via compression. Very few of the DTS/Atmos mixes are using Object Audio positions, i.e. something like a VR environment where a "helicoptor" rotor is being played at a certain height in the mix, based on the Atmos Processor deciding which speakers and how loud the sound should be in each discrete speaker as the sound moves from Front to Height Left to Height Center to Height mid to rear Left, et al. This is used in Atmos Demo reels, but the Atmos mix is rarely Object audio mixed. VR games can use this data though, it also requires Atmos exporting. There are advantages for HRTF that is either Hardware-matched via EQ profiles and a standard/Calibrated "Room Microphone" along with a series of volume changes and Frequency Sweep playback and monitoring, Room-Matched for speakers via a pulse/tuning microphone used in AV Theater receivers, or Ear-Canal Matched, which is the Nura approach, on top of their own hardware EQ. The theory/method Nura uses, is a similar process, i.e. otoaccoustic reflections, and listening for the reflection timing on the amplitude and sweep/resonance. It's techy, but basically it takes the microphone recording inside your ear canal, while the sound is being played in the speaker or IEM/TWS in the case of the Nura Loop / Nura True earbud/IEMs. Airpod Pros also have a limited version of this OAE for Adaptive ANC, since the cancellation/anti-noise frequency is being applied to the 'internal' sound, but also the external sound to avoid overpressure and other ANC quirks. The APP has multiple microphones to get a more balanced ambient and local noise, i.e swallowing / jogging / talking which conducts through the bone/jaw/ear, and has to also be cancelled out (sic) Audiophiles don't really bother with HRTF alone, because most hardware drivers are not neutral or monitor based. They often require some EQ or rebalancing to deliver a Neutral or V shaped profile EQ to reduce the distortion or peaking that could happen. The DSP used on TWS earbuds/IEMS often have DSP for ANC, and that DSP also allows for HRTF or EQ settings, so it's nearly always either ANC or HRTF or ANC and HRTF, because that requires a DSP in either case. If you have something like HeSuVi on PC, it applies HRTF and a custom EQ profile via Equaliser APO. Creative Labs also has a similar process via SX-Fi, which uses a near-identical matching hardware EQ profile, and their 'ear matching' machine-learning partner HRTF 'platform' which uses a similar ear-matching HRTF that Sony licenses out for their HRTF. The other issue is that the EQ delivered on top of compressed sound often has issues with quantisation / compression problems or peak/normalisation problems. Most wireless headphones use a low-bitrate Bluetooth SBC codec, so YMMV on any 7.1 or EQ processing, because it's
Burn in is very real. More obvious with larger drivers and probably not noticeable AT ALL on headphone sized drivers.. but the cone flexes and loosens up a bit around the edge where it articulates so its really basic physics. Whether its a big enough difference to hear is the debate.
I very recently wanted to get into quality audio. I used to only use whatever headset from Corsair or Turtle Beach. I did a lot of review searching and looked at a couple of graphs and decided on getting the HD 560s. They were more budget than a lot of other options that I looked at but I can say that they have shown me the difference between gaming headsets vs actual headphones. I can't wait to get further into the world of headphones and your videos are very helpful and informative.
Went from a Logitech Headset strait to Hifiman HE-4xx headphone when I got interested in the hobby, the difference was shocking, I've since then swapped the pads, added a better DAC and added a small Hybrid Tube-Amp just for fun and been having a great time with music and games alike. Also collected a few IEMs and use a Moondrop Moonriver2 with my Steamdeck and absolutely adore it for a mobile setup. Going from a iffy-but ok-ish headset to real Headphones is like jumping from 480p to 4K, especially with well recorded music and games with great sound, even got a Fiio DAP (music player) to keep my music separate from my phone so notifications don't bother me and I'd rather collect my own downloads and CD rips instead of Streaming since our networks here are junky
I went from a pair of Razer Krakens to some AKG K52s I got for $15 on sale. Immediately the audio sounded better & I can't switch back anymore XD, hope I can get some better ones at some point!
Burn in WAS a thing back in the day when manufacturing tolerances weren't nearly as good as they are now, even at the highest end of the market. With that said, it does help very slightly with very low-end transient bass response from SPEAKER woofers, not IEMs. But room correction and proper speaker placement will do more than anything else.
There was a RUclipsr who said if manufacturers want you to burn in your headphones/earphones for the best experience, why don't they do it themselves when they make the product? Why wouldn't they give you the best possible experience right out of the box to make you not want to return the item in the first place? And to stop paraphrasing this RUclipsr, I believe that if manufacturers want you to spend over a week burning their product in, they should add that much more time to their return policy.
I laughed so damn hard when that Asian dude popped up with glasses you just looked right into the camera. That was good shit man😅 I just bought your truthear Crinacle zero collab as my first step into the IEM space for "gaming" ALOT of streamers are going with the kiwi ears orchestra lite and I don't know if you have reviewed those before but I'm sure I'll run into a video soon. I'm using Astro a50s now and I know how you feel about that lol
Btw, for the headphones that do the whole profiling thing, there's software that does the same thing and better. Im pretty sure some are even free, but I've only ever used Sonarworks Reference, since they came well recommended and worked perfect for me and already had profiles for pretty much any quality headphones. However, it does seem like people one tiktok dont have quality headphones though, so maybe not EDIT: Super late, but just remembered this comment and two details: Reference is mostly meant to flatten headphones/speakers' EQ, which is useful for music production without having to use the same headphones forever, since you always hear and produce music with the same sound and EQ, but this might not be super useful for those who prefer some extra color to the sound, or who have headphones/speakers that are too weak in the lower region, where boosting frequencies can make things muddy. I do think Reference allows you to make your own curve though, and it does let you use the "references" of other well-known audio equipment, which could be great for those who want a very specific piece of equipment but can't afford it. Kinda a weird way to do it, but if you don't have the money, it's as close as you're gonna get. Second detail: Reference does NOT do the same thing. In fact, my comment was completely misplaced to begin with. The whole point of the AI software in this video was not to flatten anything, but to tailor the sound of the headphones to your own tastes and capabilities, which Reference does not do. However, this is one area where there are actually a shitton of softwares that do the same thing. If they do it well, I don't know, but it should at least not be a deciding factor in whether you buy the equipment in this video. Not that anyone even replied to my comment, and only 2 people liked it, but I just don't want to be that guy who spews out misplaced, harsh comments on videos where they aren't needed. So I decided I should probably either delete it or edit it. Decided people might want to know the actual information that IS relevant, so I went with editing.
Most of the reviews of the XM4's I've seen has been more of the feature set in general and how it compares to other headphones in it's particular market. Has really reviewers stated that it sounded impressive? I felt it more like people recommended them because they are a great out and about headphone, with noise cancelling that's among the best; while still having better sound (which isn't a hard bar to beat) and feature's than it competitors. It's just a good set of headphones with audio to drown out the masses
Burn-in is real, but it doesn't happen over 200 hours, it happens in a fraction of a second at the factory when they test the drivers. Once you use a driver once, it's been burned in.
2:15 The FIIO IEMs (I think) in the tik tok video have a 14 day no questions asked period, not 7. But yeah, it does decrease your likelihood to return them. And if the 200 hour thing was real, they'd just do it at the factory.
Ima be honest the only audiophile I trust is Wade of dankpods fame because that man is genuinely into audio and also Australians being incredibly enthusiastic is just fantastic
As someone who owns the XM4s, I agree with your opinion regarding them. They sounded good compared to other headphones I owned before them, but even when I first got them, I felt slightly disappointed. What I'd been using before that was a pair of Galaxy Buds+, which I still think are great. From the way people described the XM4s I expected them to blow the Buds out of the water. While sounding good to me at the time, that wasn't really the case. Once I started to EQ my XM4s, most of the disappointment went away though and I used them pretty happily for a while. Then in 2021 I wanted to explore more options and get a good pair of wired headphones, and I ended up getting the Sennheiser HD58X. I think they sound great even without EQ and are a great value. They're what made me realize that the XM4s weren't really worth their price (for me at least). The XM4s are comfortable, have great ANC and are convenient, but the sound quality isn't very impressive. I also got the BTR5 recently, and that paired with the HD58X is a great value combo. Very pleased to have them as my daily driver. TLDR: The XM4s are great for convenience, but were not worth it for their sound quality. I'm much more pleased with using the HD58X and BTR5.
Oh, wow... How did I not know about the honk at 1k and the thinning effect at 5k? I'm an amateur home studio producer and just messing with some of these values on the master eq of some of my tracks made a HUGE difference. Learn something new every day!
I think besides “muh bass” the wh1000xm4s are so popular with techtubers for having the “best” noise-cancelling (their words not mine, I haven’t done the research to know which headphones DO hold that title)
4:36 on the burn in, i bought myself an IEM, 6 months later i broke the left ear IEM but not the right, i just bought a new pair and used ONE of two of the NEW pair. I put the new one into the OLD cable and ONE OLD iem. It was completely different and after 2-5 days of use, they both sync up. I even let my non-audiophile family try it and they do hear the difference. In my experience, burn in is real but maybe it only takes like 3-7hrs of loud sound to fully make it work(burn in)
How to easily fix the debate between burning in headphones/iems - buy 2 of the exact same things, have 1 right out of the box and the exact same for the 2nd one and just tell the people testing that 1 has been burned in. Have them choose as to whichever one was better.
"... when you boost this area specifically... that is what we call .... honk" and when you dive the area right past the honk, that is what we call ... hd 8xx (seriously tho, tape modded 8xx is the truth the way the light (basically jesus) for half the $$$)
I'm gonna say, i bought the XM4's for their NC and Wearing Comfort, and i've grown Quite fond of the Bloated Bass, it fits perfectly to my style of music and i'm in love with them
Breaking in headphones is 100% real. I broke mine twice and duct taped them together and they sound the exact same but they look WAY cooler and that means it sounds better
while the same applies for separated mic and headphones, gotta say I love my gaming headset, I used them to cheat an online job interview during pandemic and get a good position lol it was important to have a nice voice to communicate things to investors relevant for the company and they loved how much more clearer was my voice compared with the others (not really but)... because everyone was using the cheap $10 logitech headset provided by the company while I was rocking my sennheiser gsp 600 lol it felt so bad and so good at the same time wining like that
Yes, "burn in" exists only on brand new speakers if they have not been used at all. After the first few base lines they are already "burned in" and you can start enjoying. And no, you won't feel or hear it, it's a very fast process and it basically happens on a microscopic level.
for the deja vu bois yes, this is a reupload, originally uploaded on 19th October 2021 on the original crinacle channel before it was aliven't. RIP to OG crinacle :(
you should do a second one of these 🥺🥺
Are you going to reupload more videos from the old channel? It would be a shame if they were just gone.
What happened to the old channel?
@@funnnyfireguy old one finally got deleted after a year of being locked out
Rest in peace😔🙏
You can clearly see that Crin is still a noob in the audio space.
Burn-in is absolutely real and the 200 hours that the tiktok mentioned is really accurate. But you don’t have to lose your return warranty.
That’s why I burn in my new purchases by playing music through it at 2x or 2.5x speed. Then they are burnt in in a couple of days and you still have time to return them.
Is this a joke?
Underrated comment
2x and 2.5x is just how fast the music goes and in term of real time 2x 2.5x does not make the time that you suppose to burn-in goes quicker its just that you burn the fucking music not the headphone. You may want to learn how time work first
Yall missing the joke lol.
@@nguyentruonganh9201 you may want to learn what a joke is first ;)
After I burned my headphones the sound changed drastically. They became really hot and crisp. I assume it's because of molten cables
if need a headphone burn in then i ask that aussie drummer guy. his diablo gets the job done in seconds
@@shrimpfry880 now he can burn in our headphones even quicker with chord mojo 2!
I burn in my headphones with Scarlet Fire rather than white noise. I believe it works better and you cant convince me otherwise.
🤣🤣
@@BlazingKhioneus the bass boosted version works even better with expensive headphones that have 2 drivers on each side. it helps to "loosen up" that LF driver
If the manufacturer recommends 200 hours of use before the customer uses the product, then that should be done during the manufacturing process and before sale.
ikr like why tf should I leave my headphones, that I paid my hard earned money for, out for a whole week just blasting noise? Do it in the factory, I wanna put them on right away and listen to music.
Too bad burn in doesn't exist in modern speaker and it's a placebo effect. Most people feel their new speakers are too bright but after several listening sessions naturally adjust but blame it on the product and not their ears. It is a real thing in vintage speakers but materials have improved.
It's kind of stupid to buy a product if you don't like the sound or haven't listened to the actual product. Burn in time just means with use + time the product should sound better, but I've had a lot of products (especially headphones go from good sounding to bad sounding with time + use).
I can confirm that the burn-in works.
When listening to the same headphones at 120dB for 200 hours
It does perfectly shape my ears to the frequency response of the headphones.
In terms of hearing loss.
It's like buying a new pair of shoes and realizing they're too small, so you just trim your feet to the shape of the shoes.
You'll be fine.
I hope these are jokes
@@acobflp No I tried it, it's real.
Cinderella
@@acobflp WHAAAAAT!???
What do you use to trim you're feet? I personally used the woodchipper deathball 2000.
Have to admit was a little painful
If burn in really existed, wouldn't it be better for the company to "pre burn" them before sending them to retailers?
I always assume they all already are since they have to test the drivers first, unless they have no qc, of course.
@@kawaiikoto8800 if burn-in causes a predictable change in response you could just measure pre burn-in and compare to the reference and not need to burn in to QA the product.
That said, if even Dan Clark says burn-in is a thing (on specific headphones as he claims) that is real, it should be measurable.
Wouldn't be new would it?
A very valid argument, yes.
They probably do QA tests then get it out the door ASAP, Lotta companies Don't want to have a standing pile of stock waiting for burn-in tests, real or otherwise companies want stock out the door as fast as they can manage
Definitely need a sequel to this gem. Was the first crin video I ever watched.
^^^
same
Same
agreed, especially because these tiktokers almost definitely watch crinacle. The feedback from these tiktoks being made and then crinicle reacting could honestly probably lead to the tiktoks becoming better
@@axmoylotl
.
Nah don’t mind watching it again, it’s fun regardless. Also if anyone is wondering, yes, Crin does show his twin brother in this video. Who is also an audiophile coincidentally
Noo way, seriously?
Which part of the video?
Reminds me of this AVGN video where he talks about how people assume that just because you are a relative of someome that is a famous pro baseball player, that the relative is automatically good at baseball too
@@alejandromorazan3420 Hong Kong 97, Bruce Lee's relative, Chin
@@PlaggleFlism loool you dont fuck with chin. He can kill 1.2 billion by hand
My biggest argument against 'burn-in' is that during the time it takes to achieve this theoretical 'burn-in', your ears (and mind) become familiar with and adapt to the sound. 2 months later does the thing actually sound 'better', or have you just gotten used to it? It's impossible to know unless maybe you directly compare a 'burnt in' item to the exact same item without burn-in.
even your ears burn-in thru out your life to compensate hearing loss caused by age and other factors. Usually you cannot notice it happening and stay functional with your hearing. Especially people listening lots of music and/or playing/producing music learn how to listen. No driver/speaker element is made the way they need to burn in. With use the sound will change mostly in bad ways. Good quality headphones/headsets stay good for a long time.
@@aallonhuippuveikko1476I wish I could hear as well as I could when I was young but I wore headphones a lot and played in live punk rock bands without ear protection. I was dumb
@@casedistorted I see this said so much and it's terrifying. I love the immersion, loud volume feels like the sounds are actually surrounding me, but lowering the volume makes the scene feel more far away and distant, and even less real. I don't want to ruin the immersion but I am also scared of hearing damage. I'm not quite sure what to do, I already have tinnitus that is a bit too noticeable for my liking.
I think investing in better headphones that can offer more immersion at lower volumes is probably a good move, and taking breaks is also a good move. I spend almost all day everyday with headphones on listening to something and that has to be horrible for my ears.
I don't know because I wasn't wearing headphones that were being "burned in". I just cranked up Hardcore Nation 2 on the FiiO E10K and left them in the bathroom. I don't think it made any difference with Soundmagic E11
@@narvi5779 I'd recommend looking into quadraphonic headphones / surround sound headsets or anything else like that to replicate the effect I think you might be talking about.
Also, most audio sources actually have a measurably different frequency curve ( part of what dictates the practical quality of a headset/speakers/etc. ) at different volumes, so it's also possible your headset is legitimately reproducing audio less accurately at lower volume. The only real solution is to replace it with one that reproduces audio the way you want it to at lower volumes, which might unfortunately require either finding a store that lets you try them on before you buy, or buying & returning a number of headsets until you find one that works for you.
Alternatively, if you don't mind having a less portable audio setup, hi-fi speakers ( Dayton Audio, Klipsch, Elac, etc. ) especially passive speakers on a good amplifier, will usually have a much larger soundstage ( The perceived distance/separation between different sounds ) than smaller speakers or headsets, which might make for a better sense of immersion without needing much volume.
3:17 It's funny cause with breaking in sneakers, most shops explicitly will say you can return them so long as they haven't been worn outside and aren't dirty. You don't see shoe geeks or sneaker companies telling you that you need to trek through mud and over sharp rocks to break in your sneakers.
To be fair about the XM4s, most of the top recommendations for them cite them as the best "wireless noise-canceling" headphones. Not the best headphones, not the best wireless headphones, but the best in value for wireless ANC headphones. And I think in that category, it's really, really good.
I public transport around with my XM4s and it makes my life so much more pleasant.
@@minerscale Same. I fly a lot for work and the noise cancellation is really good. The Momentum 4s and PX7 S2 sound better, but the ANC is just lovely in the Sony’s
i like bass i like XM4s
I had people claim they were the most crisp sounding headphones ever. Then I tried them, all I heard was muddy bass even after EQ lmao
This. He missed the mark on why people use the xm4. It isn’t for sound quality it’s for great noise cancellation and comfort.
Bass heads: "these headphones are the best!" Everyone else: "where did the mids go"
Screams in tinnitus: *WHAT MIDS?*
realest comment right here lmao
Fuck the mids, I just want BASS
No no, bass heads are the mid ones😂
"Mom, I wanna watch Crinacle!"
"We have Crinacle at home."
Crinacle at home: 9:03
crinkle
crinkle
Texas Crinacle
@@vuhoangminhphung3581 crinkle
Listening to my Sony WH-XB900N now and yes they can be very bassy but they’re also very customizable in the app. There’s even somewhat useful feature where the app will try to come up with an EQ based on your sound preferences.
They’re very capable headphones for high end as well
this needs a sequel ASAP. literally rewatching it for the third time and it gets better each time
I'm such an audio amateur and I felt like I've looked forever for a good audio RUclipsr. Where has this channel been?! Game changing.
Crin has been a star in the portable audio hobby for at least a few years, and his personality translated really well into being a funny+informative RUclipsr
I swear you had the top comment on the og video
@@bruhmphrey bro that would be crazy cause I swear I've never seen this dude in my life. But big if true.
Dankpods is also a great channel.
@alexthesb2241
Dank Crinacle.
Somehow pretty fitting.
"Burn in" does actually apply to full size speakers with a rubber surround.. athough "break in" would better describe the effect. Freshly molded/extruded rubber is slightly stiffer than "worn in" rubber. However, this is mostly just to avoid damage from running the speaker too hard (spl test or just cranking heavy bass songs at full volume immediately after installing).. thr sound profile of the speaker dossnt significantly change.
Also, I do think burn in exists for headphones in the sense everuone here is talking about (aka the diaphram changing in sound signature after being excited over time).. however that burn in period is about 5 seconds.. and that could very easily take place at the factory if the quality control the product before shipping. Im not going to test it, and the effect would be minimal or nebligable.. but physics would imply that a slight change in the material properties would most likely change over time to varying degrees depending on the material.
It's derived that from mechanical stuff and there it really exists, for example in freshley revised car engines you should fill in a special running-in oil that differs from normal oils (less viscosity and almost no additives) for the first few hundred to a thousand kilometres so the components can grind in and you should avoid flat out and revving to high meanwhile; it's then removed and replaced by normal engine oil.
And of course you should also let the engine get warm before you really hit the accelerator, because the cold oil runs far slower (higher viscosity) than warm oil and it may happen, that there isn't enough lubing at the points of friction if you flat out a cold engine.
The German car magazine "auto motor und sport" also managed to let the then-new Sharan Mk II fail in the brake test, it's brake performance clearly faded (so braking distance increased), but of course, the vehicle was brand new, they later re-tested it with >1000 kilometres mileage and it didn't fade, because the brake rotors and pads were now ground in and it had a better braking performance without fading.
Also on my job, I work as a turner and with a fresh carbide insert/cutting edge some tools cut a little rougher or make more noise than with a cutting edge that already has some wear.
And yes, of course the speaker membranes work mechanically, especially the rubber surroundings, but I don't think it will change the sound significantly if you let run-in for a bunch of hours, you should rather let the tubes/valves get warm if you're using such an amplifier. 😉
here we go again..
@@kuchenblechmafiagmbh1381 a combustion engine does require these things. It's not comparable to a small speaker.
1 year late. everything need a worn in period. example basketball ball need to be worn in. For electronics, usually it being just warm enough will do.
the old method of having the engine parts 'gently grind' against each other for a 'perfect seat' doesn't really apply anymore given the improved fabrication techniques and materials producing parts w/ much finer tolerances and greater consistency.
back to electronics, in the pro world the 'burn in' is usually referred to a period of intense testing in order to weed out eventual failures and it can imply heat and/or mechanical stress. @@AdamOwenBrowning
9:02 may have been the hardest I laughed in 2021
It's the glasses for me hahahaha
a crin SE 🤣
or maybe promax
@@chrischai6950 Crin: Dusk
I laughed so hard the first time last year, gawd dam i'm still laughing so hard again in 2022!!
@@chrischai6950 that's just crin on his phone's front facing camera.. he just forgot he made that clip
whos here because of the aussie yelling at a green ipad?
Shrek forever
Dankpods is the best when yelling at the green iPad
Shrek forever my guy @@WhyDoesThisExistRUclips
Not here because he sent me, but definitely because RUclips knows I watch him, and recommended this
The lack of desk space is giving me anxiety
9:02 posting the timestamp for Crin's twin
I pretty much use my WH1000-XM3's every day for work calls and walking around listening to podcasts, and it's always kinda crazy going back to my more neutral Hifiman Edition XS or Dunu SA6 and can hear voices so much clearer because they aren't drowned out by muddy bass.
Same the convenience is grate, but against more balanced headphone there’s no competition. In my case is the Sundara so clear in comparison
Serious question, how can you use it for phonecalls? The voicemic is so terrible that everytime I use it while on the phone I either have to shout or disconnect and use the phone instead because people can barely hear me 😅
I have 2 sets, bought a year apart.
@@Dianophi Same the mic is garbage, I don't do/receive much calls, but I do used in meetings and depending of the software (google meet/zoom) it does an acceptable job, nowhere near the quality of the airpods pro mic though.
@@ismajim yea I tend to not use it for calls because of it. I like them overall (but would never have paid the full price for them if I needed, since I don't think they are worth it)
@@Dianophi xm4 also got trash microphone, i got one
Damn thought it was a new tiktok reaction vid but it’s all good. Appreciate all your content crin!
We kinda need a new one now
I'm an owner of the Sony WH-1000MX4. I bought them not so much for their audio quality as for the features. I found the active noise cancellation pretty good, which is a must in my situation, and being able to play both wired and wireless is a big plus for me.
I had been looking around for good alternatives that offer the same features but haven't been able to find any, though I'd gladly take recommendations.
I find that you can make the XM4s sound significantly better with some basic EQ adjustments. Granted, they are muddy and heavy on the bass out of the box so I recommend anyone to turn down the bass boost when you can.
As for me, my burn-in take us that if you use one pair of headphones for quite a long time, swapping to another pair with a completely different soundstage will be a little unfamiliar at first. Shocking I know. And then after a while you’ll get more accustomed to it. I don’t think it’s anything having to do with the internal components, just what we’re psychologically accustomed to. I wouldn’t want to buy a car that comes with the warning “drive for about 2 weeks in order to really get the car working up to spec”.
Exactly my thoughts as well. And if you change back to your old headphones their sound will be strange, nothing to do with "burning in", just getting used to it.
The EQ dip at 250-500hz is the industry "standard" way of EQing during mastering for pop, EDM and similar music for the big names btw. Now, yes, this IS a good thing usually, HOWEVER, the issue is that producers tend to know what they're doing, and so if necessary, they will already have done that EQ in the track before release. Doing it again just ruins it.
As for honk, if anyone is confused, think of TV when connected to speakers and theres dialogue and the audio is loud. That WHONK sound that comes out, like a resonant frequency, sometimes. Thats what Crinacle is talking about here. You dont want to boost that effect. You really don't want to.
To me burn in effect people are talking about is just getting used to the frequency the headphones you just bought are at. if you're new to the hobby the little details are hard to notice, but my daily driver is HD6XX and I bought arias a few months ago. It was surprising to see how much I got used to the HD6XX sound, versus that of a more bass focused sound.
Yeah it's just your mind and perception adjusting to the new sound signature. It's sensory adaptation. I sometimes will like a pair of headphones more after a few weeks of listening because I've grown used to the sound.
@@mrjuanderfuI i constantly change headphones/headsets..... my sennheiser's and skullcandy's did burn-in....that bass kicked in...
all the others sound the same as when i first got them....
@@caliginousmoira8565 and yet no one can ever provide objective evidence of burn in.... Interesting
@@mrjuanderfuI ..... i've only had 2 pair that the sound got better on after playing them for a week... could have just been my pair... like how you get some items that don't work as intended and must be repaired or traded....
Yeah, whenever I get new headphones or speakers, they always sound a little strange to me at first, but after a while I get used to them and they sound good to me. So I could see why someone might think they were "burned in." But then I try to listen on my old headphones after not listening to them in a long time, and then they sound weird to me. It's just your brain getting used to it IMO.
luckily i live in the uk where return window is legally 14 days (unless you specifically sign a thing saying nintendo can keep your money forever) so i can burn in these headphones for a full 200 hours and only waste £20 of electricity, £10 in postage and my dignity
I started my audiophile life as a bass head when I was around 10 or 11 with the Turtle Beach X12s The bass on those things were INSANE and as a child, the feeling of my whole skull vibrating was just fun. But eventually when I got properly into music and sound in general I SWIFTLY learned that, though bass is important, if you have even just slightly too much, you ruin everything.
Great flashback of these headphones my buddy had a pair and I had Triton! 2012
I was cured of 'audiophilia' when I started playing bass live. Everywhere from studios to arenas.
None of it sounds like a final produced recording. So to MY ears, 'tight' 'controlled' bass some love is to my ears completely sterile and unnatural. Bass never attacks and immediately decays. A bit of bloat is perfectly normal, real. If a headphone therefore bloats bass within reason, give it here!
I can kind of see that for a certain amount of bass boost. To be frank, most album mixes and even many live mixes do not push the bass near enough (at least in non bass focused genre like rock). However, if the bass boost extends too high in frequency that is often when it sounds bloated. You can make the bass louder without making it bloated. And of course EQ exists, so it always works to push the bass a little on a more neutral headphone. If a headphone sounds bloated, it really indicates that they tuned it poorly. Again, you can get bassy headphones that are not bloated.
@@drgrandmaster3786 Exactly. Muddiness is a no no. In real life PA mixing that's sound guys who haven't a clue what they're doing.
You want that subwoofer bass you _feel_ to start, plus some midbass push, then back off so the entire range of mids and treble can shine. This actually adds great articulation to higher registers of bass guitars. The result is lively as hell but well balanced.
The point isn't to sound like a final produced recording when playing live. As a touring musician at studios, arenas, lollapalooza, zappanale, etc, it's about the performance. Bass never attacks and decays immediately? Aight.
@@outermarker5801 it’s amazing how nice you can make even a budget stereo sound really good with the right sound stage and a good EQ
@@tyranosurasmax Never said that was or should be the point of live performance. I'm speaking of _product reviews_ which praise headphones with 'tight' (ie restrained) bass as being some gold standard. The Edifier TWS1 Pro earbuds come to mind. They're _great_ sounding earbuds at any price, very detailed and natural sounding with a little EQ to tame the default brightness, but minimal mid bass presence or worse, sub bass extension. That isn't 'accurate' ime, not even compared to many other earbuds.
I'm also saying live experience across multiple venue types and music genres has given me better perspective of bass in the wild.
That's all I'm saying there lollapalooza 🤘🙃
real ones watched this one already
real ones watching this one again
bro i thought i had a deja vu watching this, seeing your comment tells me that the video is reuploaded
I legit rewatched it because it's so entertaining 💀
Real ones still watching this 9 months later
I believe burn-in does exist for *some* analogue components, mainly tubes in tube amplifiers, and speakers that use classic membrane vibrations to produce sound. I would also argue that this matters above ~10 cm of the speaker. The components in IEM's and Headphones are usually too small that you get any kind of material stretching from constant use. And especially non-membrane technology, like planar headphones, do not have any burn-in. The same goes for anything digital, obviously.
If burn-in was a thing, the manufacturer would do it prior to sale, especially if it's a premium product
As someone who’s had the wh-1000xm4s I will say that they do come a bit bassy, but there’s an easy app to customize the frequencies, so you can easily counteract the negatives
Nothing to do with how criminally terrible the microphone is though. ( Or all of my microphone using apps use them correctly and it sound like ass)
@@John-lw7bz Then again, most Bluetooth mics on headsets dont sound like, *good* I suppose
@@John-lw7bz On no planet am I ever criticising or complaining about a microphone on a wireless headphone. Who cares? As long as the other person can hear me
"At this point I'd consider it like playing chess with a pigeon." Lol. Or discussing burn in with a pigeon. If someone says a phenomenon exists, the onus is on them to demonstrate that is true, not the other way around. It's Russell's teapot. It has been tested enough to demonstrate it either doesn't exist or the effect is very small. But believers will cling on with special pleading.
What burn in time can do is allow your brain to adjust to the sound signature and work with motivated reasoning to begin to like what you didnt like at first. Sometimes
I have the first gen of the XM's and have been using them daily for years now...The battery is still great, the plastic has been lasting pretty well, and with a proper AptX bluetooth adapter they sound decent enough to me on PC... No bass issues for me while gaming or listening to Spotify. I also used them during long flights and they were amazing at noise canceling everything. They were great for sleeping too (with no music but NC enabled). Confused why you hate them so much lol...
-Throw Beats in the bin
-buy something just as crappy
that TikTokers logic bruh
And since EVERYONE fucking promotes them: The old beyerdynamics are traaash bruh. Had the DT990 for years hated them.
Bought the Sundara for fucking 300$ plus Pads and they are so insanely good compared to any audio producing device ive ever heard in my life.
Crin, the XM4s may not be the greatest at sound (I agree with that, I had to EQ them a lot before they sounded good) but sound is not the only reason why people buy headphones.
Comfort is another big factor, and these are damn good at that. I can't say for everyone, but you can lay on these headphones while wearing them and not feel them dig into your head.
Also, the noise cancellation. Not only is it really powerful but it can also adapt to different envirments and atmosphere pressures, making them great for travelling.
I love the "this is an ad read, if it wasn't obvious". It's hilarious but also really helpful.
This is one of my favorite videos from crin and I can speak for a lot of people when we say we want a sequel
deja vu time well spent.
congrats crin, your way to explain stuff and not just punch them in the face is awesome! btw hearing you explaining stuff with your HD800S on, using mine lol.
*cough* HD800
I know this is a reupload but I would like to see more of this, not only is it entertaining I think it's helpful advice for consumers.
You don't have to "burn them in", it's just flexing the driver suspension and will happen all by itself when listening to them. It will probably increase bass output very slightly over time. Whether you notice it or not is debatable.
6:56
KZ iems
They like $15-$20 and is you get lucky you can find them for like $10
Detachable cables, comes with a balanced Jack I believe too
I bought the wh-1000xm4 for a similar reason I bought my AirPods Pro. They are convenient for my travel needs with the long battery and ANC and were very cheap on sale on black friday. I can tell they're definitely not accurate but hey they make commutes, where you're not exactly in a quiet room trying to get the "experience" of music, much more fun. I got them for $180 at target with a gift card and at that price I think they're great
Same I got the xm3 for travel but now I'm here on this kind of audio channel to get a good set for home
Im with ya on that one
I think they're the best wireless ANC headphones you can get for travel
10/10 worth the rewatch for the YT algo gods. F to pay respects to the OG Crinacle channel. Amazed at how well you rolled with that punch, Crin. I would have been completely demoralized.
I can't explain how mindfucked I was when I literally rewatched this video yesterday.
You should buy 2 pairs of those IEMs, have one burn-in for 200 hours and then compare both curves to see if it makes any difference.
2:42 "I might be making a lot of these corporations sound more evil than they actually are"
I can guarantee you the 200 hour burn in comment is by far one of the most tame and harmless ways a corporation will try to increase their profit. You my friend have way too much optimism in corporations' moral compass. Their moral compasses point south my brother
I demand Crin to reupload the original 10K giveaway videos. Yes, including the shorts where he watches his money being taken away
I have the nuraphone, and I think they're a lot of fun, they have separate subwoofers behind your ears so you can have very loud bass without distorting the audio, or you can turn it all the way down. It's just fun. When you get the fit and profile right, they sound great, but it's not always perfect, so you might have to redo the process sometimes.
Other than that, they may be the most uncomfortable headphones on the planet. All the weight of the aluminium body rests on the in ear bits. Still fun, and you do get used to it, but it takes a while.
At 16:29 you mention Nura's sound personalization and how they analyze your ear and how it adjusts your HRTF, but HRTFs relate more to how sounds are perceived in sound fields rather than direct sound through headphones. The HRTF can turn direct sound like through headphones into a more "spatial" sound but Nura makes a personalized EQ not based on your HRTF but rather your inner ear through OAE. For a full HRTF you would need a spatial audio setup so the pinna, head shape, chest and so on could be taken into account. Via OAE you can create a 2D EQ adjustment to balance out any places where you have a low OAE response. Also Nura has been making headphones for over 5 years and their customization is nothing new
Boosting this comment
Ok maybe I won’t become an audiophile
@@cringeginge7663 htrf is just like windows sonic or dolby atmos. it makes it easier to hear things behind and around you using binaural audio.
htrf isn't even like a thing in audiophile spaces
16*29 reference
@@Scrappy-RUclips HRTF is common in 3D and EQ, and it's used in 7.1 / 5.1 / 4ch processing, because it's feeding either discrete channels into a stereo mix, or rendering Atmos/Object encoded audio ie games and 7.1 channel sound into stereo (most common).
It's very common. It's also often "sold" as various technologies. 3D sound, spatial audio, Dolby Headphones. Gaming Audio,Virtual 7.1, Transparency or Ambient audio, et al. It uses similar effects and DSP processing. The technology used to make ANC work, also allows EQ, mixing of channels and input/microphones, also allows for spatial/virtual/Gaming/HRTF/3D audio depending on the DSP used.
You might see it labelled as Virtual 7.1 or Dolby Headphones for Atmos, or Dolby Atmos, or Dolby ProLogic, DTS Headphones, et al.
Sometimes it's just decoding the 7.1 into headphone mixes. Or, it's adding echo/reverb to stereo for fake 7.1. or using a DSP for EQ to fake a 7.1 mix with reverb/processing in the EQ to mix stereo into a 'false room' using only EQ processing. It gets complicated. Usually because of Dolby Headphones/Atmos being commercial products.
While HRTF is binaural, Binaural is often "Real" recordings (made with head-mounted microphones or the dummy head microphone model) , while HRTF is fake, rendered/object created, or synthetic/emulated binaural. Or its used to compress discrete channels ie. Atmos/DTS content.
Or it's feeding the discrete and mixed channels (Dolby Surround / ProLogic/Atmos or AAC/MP4/Vorbis mixed channels) that have a separated stereo and room reverb function / mode that is sort of treated like a Room EQ. This is also a form of Object Audio or positional audio, where it's generating a mix of either 3D positions that the software has to emulate, or it's a mix of speaker output like Center/Side channel data that gets mixed into the Left/Side/Height channels and Center/Subwoofer channels via compression.
Very few of the DTS/Atmos mixes are using Object Audio positions, i.e. something like a VR environment where a "helicoptor" rotor is being played at a certain height in the mix, based on the Atmos Processor deciding which speakers and how loud the sound should be in each discrete speaker as the sound moves from Front to Height Left to Height Center to Height mid to rear Left, et al. This is used in Atmos Demo reels, but the Atmos mix is rarely Object audio mixed. VR games can use this data though, it also requires Atmos exporting.
There are advantages for HRTF that is either
Hardware-matched via EQ profiles and a standard/Calibrated "Room Microphone" along with a series of volume changes and Frequency Sweep playback and monitoring,
Room-Matched for speakers via a pulse/tuning microphone used in AV Theater receivers,
or Ear-Canal Matched, which is the Nura approach, on top of their own hardware EQ.
The theory/method Nura uses, is a similar process, i.e. otoaccoustic reflections, and listening for the reflection timing on the amplitude and sweep/resonance. It's techy, but basically it takes the microphone recording inside your ear canal, while the sound is being played in the speaker or IEM/TWS in the case of the Nura Loop / Nura True earbud/IEMs.
Airpod Pros also have a limited version of this OAE for Adaptive ANC, since the cancellation/anti-noise frequency is being applied to the 'internal' sound, but also the external sound to avoid overpressure and other ANC quirks. The APP has multiple microphones to get a more balanced ambient and local noise, i.e swallowing / jogging / talking which conducts through the bone/jaw/ear, and has to also be cancelled out (sic)
Audiophiles don't really bother with HRTF alone, because most hardware drivers are not neutral or monitor based. They often require some EQ or rebalancing to deliver a Neutral or V shaped profile EQ to reduce the distortion or peaking that could happen. The DSP used on TWS earbuds/IEMS often have DSP for ANC, and that DSP also allows for HRTF or EQ settings, so it's nearly always either ANC or HRTF or ANC and HRTF, because that requires a DSP in either case.
If you have something like HeSuVi on PC, it applies HRTF and a custom EQ profile via Equaliser APO. Creative Labs also has a similar process via SX-Fi, which uses a near-identical matching hardware EQ profile, and their 'ear matching' machine-learning partner HRTF 'platform' which uses a similar ear-matching HRTF that Sony licenses out for their HRTF.
The other issue is that the EQ delivered on top of compressed sound often has issues with quantisation / compression problems or peak/normalisation problems. Most wireless headphones use a low-bitrate Bluetooth SBC codec, so YMMV on any 7.1 or EQ processing, because it's
Oh hey. I've used your graphs alot, didn't know you had a RUclips channel. Great stuff
Burn in is very real. More obvious with larger drivers and probably not noticeable AT ALL on headphone sized drivers.. but the cone flexes and loosens up a bit around the edge where it articulates so its really basic physics. Whether its a big enough difference to hear is the debate.
I'm convinced this is getting recommended to me because of dankpods
Same lol
I very recently wanted to get into quality audio. I used to only use whatever headset from Corsair or Turtle Beach. I did a lot of review searching and looked at a couple of graphs and decided on getting the HD 560s. They were more budget than a lot of other options that I looked at but I can say that they have shown me the difference between gaming headsets vs actual headphones. I can't wait to get further into the world of headphones and your videos are very helpful and informative.
Went from a Logitech Headset strait to Hifiman HE-4xx headphone when I got interested in the hobby, the difference was shocking, I've since then swapped the pads, added a better DAC and added a small Hybrid Tube-Amp just for fun and been having a great time with music and games alike.
Also collected a few IEMs and use a Moondrop Moonriver2 with my Steamdeck and absolutely adore it for a mobile setup.
Going from a iffy-but ok-ish headset to real Headphones is like jumping from 480p to 4K, especially with well recorded music and games with great sound, even got a Fiio DAP (music player) to keep my music separate from my phone so notifications don't bother me and I'd rather collect my own downloads and CD rips instead of Streaming since our networks here are junky
I personally got some HD 558'S (foam delete) glad to see you enjoy yours
I went from a pair of Razer Krakens to some AKG K52s I got for $15 on sale. Immediately the audio sounded better & I can't switch back anymore XD, hope I can get some better ones at some point!
Burn in WAS a thing back in the day when manufacturing tolerances weren't nearly as good as they are now, even at the highest end of the market. With that said, it does help very slightly with very low-end transient bass response from SPEAKER woofers, not IEMs. But room correction and proper speaker placement will do more than anything else.
I can tell youve never had an unhealthy obsession with guitar cabinets by the fact you arent sure burn in is real lol
There was a RUclipsr who said if manufacturers want you to burn in your headphones/earphones for the best experience, why don't they do it themselves when they make the product? Why wouldn't they give you the best possible experience right out of the box to make you not want to return the item in the first place? And to stop paraphrasing this RUclipsr, I believe that if manufacturers want you to spend over a week burning their product in, they should add that much more time to their return policy.
This is the video that made me first find the original Crinacle channel. Glad to see it back on your main.
Burn-in is basically "get used to the sound" rather than an actual change in the product.
I laughed so damn hard when that Asian dude popped up with glasses you just looked right into the camera. That was good shit man😅 I just bought your truthear Crinacle zero collab as my first step into the IEM space for "gaming" ALOT of streamers are going with the kiwi ears orchestra lite and I don't know if you have reviewed those before but I'm sure I'll run into a video soon. I'm using Astro a50s now and I know how you feel about that lol
Those rob headphones probably had more budget for RGB than actual speakers 💀
If burn-in exists, why does the manufacturer does not do BEFORE shipping?
Btw, for the headphones that do the whole profiling thing, there's software that does the same thing and better. Im pretty sure some are even free, but I've only ever used Sonarworks Reference, since they came well recommended and worked perfect for me and already had profiles for pretty much any quality headphones. However, it does seem like people one tiktok dont have quality headphones though, so maybe not
EDIT: Super late, but just remembered this comment and two details:
Reference is mostly meant to flatten headphones/speakers' EQ, which is useful for music production without having to use the same headphones forever, since you always hear and produce music with the same sound and EQ, but this might not be super useful for those who prefer some extra color to the sound, or who have headphones/speakers that are too weak in the lower region, where boosting frequencies can make things muddy.
I do think Reference allows you to make your own curve though, and it does let you use the "references" of other well-known audio equipment, which could be great for those who want a very specific piece of equipment but can't afford it. Kinda a weird way to do it, but if you don't have the money, it's as close as you're gonna get.
Second detail: Reference does NOT do the same thing. In fact, my comment was completely misplaced to begin with. The whole point of the AI software in this video was not to flatten anything, but to tailor the sound of the headphones to your own tastes and capabilities, which Reference does not do. However, this is one area where there are actually a shitton of softwares that do the same thing. If they do it well, I don't know, but it should at least not be a deciding factor in whether you buy the equipment in this video.
Not that anyone even replied to my comment, and only 2 people liked it, but I just don't want to be that guy who spews out misplaced, harsh comments on videos where they aren't needed. So I decided I should probably either delete it or edit it. Decided people might want to know the actual information that IS relevant, so I went with editing.
Most of the reviews of the XM4's I've seen has been more of the feature set in general and how it compares to other headphones in it's particular market. Has really reviewers stated that it sounded impressive? I felt it more like people recommended them because they are a great out and about headphone, with noise cancelling that's among the best; while still having better sound (which isn't a hard bar to beat) and feature's than it competitors. It's just a good set of headphones with audio to drown out the masses
First time watching your videos, instantly fell in love with your content type and your personality. Love the video!
Burn-in is real, but it doesn't happen over 200 hours, it happens in a fraction of a second at the factory when they test the drivers. Once you use a driver once, it's been burned in.
2:15 The FIIO IEMs (I think) in the tik tok video have a 14 day no questions asked period, not 7.
But yeah, it does decrease your likelihood to return them. And if the 200 hour thing was real, they'd just do it at the factory.
11:38 "In my opinion they look better"
There was the first thing he said that was actually valid xD
I know this is a reupload, but I wanna see Crin flabbergasted at the dancing kid again
Soundpeats so good it made him dance 🤣
Ima be honest the only audiophile I trust is Wade of dankpods fame because that man is genuinely into audio and also Australians being incredibly enthusiastic is just fantastic
5:48 That silence was so deafening
As someone who owns the XM4s, I agree with your opinion regarding them. They sounded good compared to other headphones I owned before them, but even when I first got them, I felt slightly disappointed.
What I'd been using before that was a pair of Galaxy Buds+, which I still think are great. From the way people described the XM4s I expected them to blow the Buds out of the water. While sounding good to me at the time, that wasn't really the case. Once I started to EQ my XM4s, most of the disappointment went away though and I used them pretty happily for a while.
Then in 2021 I wanted to explore more options and get a good pair of wired headphones, and I ended up getting the Sennheiser HD58X. I think they sound great even without EQ and are a great value. They're what made me realize that the XM4s weren't really worth their price (for me at least). The XM4s are comfortable, have great ANC and are convenient, but the sound quality isn't very impressive. I also got the BTR5 recently, and that paired with the HD58X is a great value combo. Very pleased to have them as my daily driver.
TLDR: The XM4s are great for convenience, but were not worth it for their sound quality. I'm much more pleased with using the HD58X and BTR5.
Oh, wow... How did I not know about the honk at 1k and the thinning effect at 5k? I'm an amateur home studio producer and just messing with some of these values on the master eq of some of my tracks made a HUGE difference. Learn something new every day!
I think besides “muh bass” the wh1000xm4s are so popular with techtubers for having the “best” noise-cancelling (their words not mine, I haven’t done the research to know which headphones DO hold that title)
RIP OG Crinacle. Can we have updated IEM waifu tier list?
4:36 on the burn in, i bought myself an IEM, 6 months later i broke the left ear IEM but not the right, i just bought a new pair and used ONE of two of the NEW pair. I put the new one into the OLD cable and ONE OLD iem. It was completely different and after 2-5 days of use, they both sync up. I even let my non-audiophile family try it and they do hear the difference. In my experience, burn in is real but maybe it only takes like 3-7hrs of loud sound to fully make it work(burn in)
That breath at "RGB", I felt that in my soul.
Thank you crinacle I haven't laughed this much in a LONG time it truly made my morning.
This video made me sell my HD800S for those sweet RGB Bugghas 😍
How to easily fix the debate between burning in headphones/iems - buy 2 of the exact same things, have 1 right out of the box and the exact same for the 2nd one and just tell the people testing that 1 has been burned in. Have them choose as to whichever one was better.
And than preferably have 20 headphones instead of 2 to make unit variation less of a factor
"... when you boost this area specifically... that is what we call .... honk"
and when you dive the area right past the honk, that is what we call ... hd 8xx (seriously tho, tape modded 8xx is the truth the way the light (basically jesus) for half the $$$)
i am only 6 mins in and i am fucking loving this nonsense. can’t believe it’s *that* much of what I’ve expected loool. god bless u, my friend
That guy in the thumbnail looks like he should do the thug shake
8:23 Refuse to believe that headphone wearer is a real person
"oh shit is that me" killed me
I'm gonna say, i bought the XM4's for their NC and Wearing Comfort, and i've grown Quite fond of the Bloated Bass, it fits perfectly to my style of music and i'm in love with them
Breaking in headphones is 100% real. I broke mine twice and duct taped them together and they sound the exact same but they look WAY cooler and that means it sounds better
I was like "Am I crazy or have I seen this before?" HAHAHAHA Still, these TikTok reaction is very entertaining haha
while the same applies for separated mic and headphones, gotta say I love my gaming headset, I used them to cheat an online job interview during pandemic and get a good position lol it was important to have a nice voice to communicate things to investors relevant for the company and they loved how much more clearer was my voice compared with the others (not really but)... because everyone was using the cheap $10 logitech headset provided by the company while I was rocking my sennheiser gsp 600 lol it felt so bad and so good at the same time wining like that
9:02 this is the funniest fucking thing i have seen on RUclips in weeks
so true @14:43 sony even have an "extra" or "clear" bass option in their app. you're right! absolute bass canons! I love mine
I think the "don't buy beats" TikTok was satire😂
12:15 oh yes the BASS !!! Phenomenal!!!
12:25 bro turned himself into a circus clown 💀
Yes, "burn in" exists only on brand new speakers if they have not been used at all. After the first few base lines they are already "burned in" and you can start enjoying. And no, you won't feel or hear it, it's a very fast process and it basically happens on a microscopic level.
I'm not paying $50 for a company that tells me to burn and waste 200 hours of my time. Maybe I should charge them of my hourly rate. Lol
It took me 2 seconds to figure that this guy has audiophile aura