Do I have room for both Gloomhaven and Frosthaven? Have I finished Jaws of the Lion? Have I even play all of my games? do even have a big enough to table to play this? No, but I'm totes gonna buy it and no one can stop me.
Quick note - I believe the game itself will retail for ~$250 or more. I know it costs more at retail that it cost me to back the game + insert + GH solo scenarios + FH Solo scenarios + coins + Removable Sticker set + Envelope X components.... and I spent around $240-275 (can't remember exactly, it's been almost 3 years).
@@Quackalope IIRC from the Kickstarter update, it's tied to the shipping and manufacturing costs going up by hundreds, if not thousands, of percent..... and for something Frosthaven's size......... :(
Update #102 from March 11, 2022 stated that the MSRP will be $250. There's a nice detailed list in the update of why the MSRP is so much greater than they initially thought it would be.
@@MrScrawnjuan They are now, but that doesn't matter when they had to pay their shipping prices for ship containers nearly a year ago when they were much higher. What they are now for businesses has no bearing on MSRP for products that had to be shipped before the prices started stabilizing
Wow, my guy, just started getting into the board game RUclips scene, and my word this was by far the very best, clear cut, well spoken, excellently delivered review of a complex game I’ve watched. Thank you so so much. I’m truly impressed!
The more I think about Frosthaven, the more I realize that it should have been four smaller products like Jaws of the Lion. 4 Heroes, 25 Scenarios, ~25 enemies, ~50 equipment cards, a spiral scenario book, and charge $50 CAD each. You could pick up just one to try it out, or get the whole set and mix and match the content.
A word to anyone watching this who is unfamiliar with Gloomhaven/Frosthaven re: inserts and setup time - in a few months LuckyDuck will release a Helper app that will basically make 1/2 of the components useless: the monster attack modifier deck, monster AI decks, damage components and tracking sheets, element board, initiative tracking, all of the status tokens, etc. Cuts setup by 10+ minutes. Extremely worth it.
Just an FYI for anyone reading. It does cost $11CAD. I wish they had given it to backers. Or at least a discount. Instead they killed the previous app which was great and free.
You missed the note that they do offer removable sticker sets for resetting the game. I haven't gotten my copy yet, so I don't know if Frosthaven has this yet, but Gloomhaven DOES have a way to play the game standalone outside of the campaign if you want.
Gloomhaven is best at 3 At 4 you will have some players losing actions which is unsatisfying At 2 you will have way more swings of luck since you have less resources to deal with problems. And also you have to level up in a way to fill in the gaps of what your party needs, as opposed to leveling up the way you want. At 3 there are way less lost actions, way less swings of luck and you can level up to your heart's desire.
@@WaxDrag I mean: one player plans to do an attack of some sort, but because the other players go before them, they kill everything and the aforementioned player has wasted his card.
@Kentchangar oooooh, yeah that does happen sometimes. Part of it is learning to communicate plans and actions too, without getting too much into table talk specifics
Yeah, hard pass for me Really enjoyed Gloomhaven, but it wayyyy overstayed its welcome and I only ended up playing about half the game before moving on. I think Jaws Of The Lion did it right. So if they “Jaws Of The Lion” Frosthaven, I’ll check that out possibly. Otherwise… no way I’d rather buy 5 other boardgames with with 45-60 minute table times that will actually see the table. Way more value in that for me In an age where people’s attention spans are less and less, it always surprises me that people back these kinds of games
That sounds reasonable, but it really depends. Me and my wife are actually the opposite - we finished Oathsworn and almost finished Gloomhaven (about 50 or so missions, but we didn't like how chaotic the story felt), but we can never get ourselves to play normal games. I swear I have couple of nice 45-60 minutes games we never played and many more we played only a couple of times. The story and routine ussually helps us to stay motivated to play.
German retail price will be approx. 425$!!!! No joke! This is for sure a good game, especially since I really like Gloomhaven. And it is a lot of material as well as play time… but 425$ vs. Kickstarter 118$ incl shipment w/o tax. I don‘t know…
The right for you wrong for you should simply come down to 2 questions... 1. Did you finish the Gloomhaven campaign? 2. Do you want more Gloomhaven having finished it? If you answer "no" to either, then you shouldn't be buying Frosthaven. This isn't even Frosthaven specific logic. Apply it to about any game with a sequel or expansion.
The thing is, there is no one who would buy this game that this would be your only game. It’s way too expensive and complicated to be your first board game.
After a while alI really stopped enjoying GH. Quests felt very blunt and repetitive. I am wondering if it is that extreme again and if it is, is there at least some more rewarding loot (eg ressources for crafting)?
Newbie here...I am looking for something that can occupy me for a thousand hours. BUT....I think I may start with Madness nemesis oathsworn or just Monopoly
Do you think Frosthaven improved on the writing/plot over Gloomhaven? I'm trying to finish a Gloomhaven campaign but we're getting so turned down by the story (so cheesy/cringy omg) that we almost don't even read the lore anymore and this is slowly killing our enthusiasm. To me it is the main point that needs to show a huge improvement to justify adding it to my collection :(
Gloomhaven was and still is #1 game and always will be. Still I think Frosthaven is going to be even better, becauae they kept everything from gloomhaven and added more 🤤 It took 2years for our group, and I guess Frost is going to take up to 3 years 😎 CANT WAIT! I hope the shipments for EU are coming soon. Ps. Can we expect some more KDM content from you in the future?
Play some different dungeon crawler type of board games, like Warhammer quest 1995, S&S, etc and you may reevaluate your opinion on your #1. There are much better games out there.
@@thundercracker3547 thanks for the tips, I might at least watch some videos of those. I am also intriqued to play the upcoming elder scrolls boardgame, but that was too big of investment for me so I missed my window to pledge in KS. And I have also played a dozen sessions of KDM, but the dice and the battlefield being always almost the same feels a bit too repetitive for me. I prefer no dice and a lot of variation in the playable characters. I also would like to try DnD but its impossible to find a group in my town.
Played part of Jaws of Lion and found it a little boring so more of the same on a bigger scale means it's not a game I want to play. Plus if you are going to play it in a group then it will take weeks to play, if I wanted to play it solo I'd play a computer game.
@@Quackalope fair assessment, and I appreciate your thorough dissection on many different levels. As one of those people who doesn't mind pouring a lot of time into a single title and has a group of 4 fairly dedicated participants, I'm looking forward to it.
@@Quackalope The time is more costly for a content creator. For a group of gamers where it is a main game for a while it's not that much of an issue. And the cost is dirt cheap if you properly calculate the entertainment value - given one actually plays it. And that one is involved with rebuilding of Frosthaven and has to manage the relationship with the tribes is IMHO massive thematic improvement over GH.
@@Quackalope Yeah, not implying it would change your opinion about KDM, but I'm encouraged that a lot of people who enjoyed KDM seem to really be enjoying AT:O as a sort of a parallel/alternate experience. Looking forward to an eventual review/thoughts about it!
Do I have room for both Gloomhaven and Frosthaven? Have I finished Jaws of the Lion? Have I even play all of my games? do even have a big enough to table to play this? No, but I'm totes gonna buy it and no one can stop me.
You do you XD
Way to be a rampant consumer lol. Got any extra cash to throw to charity?
@@MikeGalosi you don’t split board game purchases with your bros? Sad
Quick note - I believe the game itself will retail for ~$250 or more. I know it costs more at retail that it cost me to back the game + insert + GH solo scenarios + FH Solo scenarios + coins + Removable Sticker set + Envelope X components.... and I spent around $240-275 (can't remember exactly, it's been almost 3 years).
Really - that seems like a steep price for retail. Either way - it's a good value for the amount you are getting.
@@Quackalope IIRC from the Kickstarter update, it's tied to the shipping and manufacturing costs going up by hundreds, if not thousands, of percent..... and for something Frosthaven's size......... :(
Update #102 from March 11, 2022 stated that the MSRP will be $250. There's a nice detailed list in the update of why the MSRP is so much greater than they initially thought it would be.
@@Eagledelta3 shipping prices have gone down considerably
@@MrScrawnjuan They are now, but that doesn't matter when they had to pay their shipping prices for ship containers nearly a year ago when they were much higher. What they are now for businesses has no bearing on MSRP for products that had to be shipped before the prices started stabilizing
Wow, my guy, just started getting into the board game RUclips scene, and my word this was by far the very best, clear cut, well spoken, excellently delivered review of a complex game I’ve watched. Thank you so so much. I’m truly impressed!
The more I think about Frosthaven, the more I realize that it should have been four smaller products like Jaws of the Lion. 4 Heroes, 25 Scenarios, ~25 enemies, ~50 equipment cards, a spiral scenario book, and charge $50 CAD each. You could pick up just one to try it out, or get the whole set and mix and match the content.
A word to anyone watching this who is unfamiliar with Gloomhaven/Frosthaven re: inserts and setup time - in a few months LuckyDuck will release a Helper app that will basically make 1/2 of the components useless: the monster attack modifier deck, monster AI decks, damage components and tracking sheets, element board, initiative tracking, all of the status tokens, etc. Cuts setup by 10+ minutes. Extremely worth it.
Just an FYI for anyone reading. It does cost $11CAD.
I wish they had given it to backers. Or at least a discount.
Instead they killed the previous app which was great and free.
@@MrScrawnjuan I actually downloaded XHaven Assistant that’s basically the same thing and it’s free
X-haven Assistant is much better though
I think Frosthaven is an awesome game but I haven’t even got halfway in gloomhaven so I passed on frosthaven.
Exactly my case.
In Germany you have to pay 300 € for preorder and announced for 400 € in retail. Will be hard to sell the games in retail.
You missed the note that they do offer removable sticker sets for resetting the game.
I haven't gotten my copy yet, so I don't know if Frosthaven has this yet, but Gloomhaven DOES have a way to play the game standalone outside of the campaign if you want.
yes, but that sticker set is not in yet (at least for me)
Problem Is more the flowchart...
Frosthaven will have the random dungeon deck that will allow you to play standalone scenarios, yes
Gloomhaven is best at 3
At 4 you will have some players losing actions which is unsatisfying
At 2 you will have way more swings of luck since you have less resources to deal with problems. And also you have to level up in a way to fill in the gaps of what your party needs, as opposed to leveling up the way you want.
At 3 there are way less lost actions, way less swings of luck and you can level up to your heart's desire.
I'm curious what you mean by losing actions at 4 players
@@WaxDrag I mean: one player plans to do an attack of some sort, but because the other players go before them, they kill everything and the aforementioned player has wasted his card.
@Kentchangar oooooh, yeah that does happen sometimes. Part of it is learning to communicate plans and actions too, without getting too much into table talk specifics
Yeah, hard pass for me
Really enjoyed Gloomhaven, but it wayyyy overstayed its welcome and I only ended up playing about half the game before moving on.
I think Jaws Of The Lion did it right.
So if they “Jaws Of The Lion” Frosthaven, I’ll check that out possibly. Otherwise… no way
I’d rather buy 5 other boardgames with with 45-60 minute table times that will actually see the table. Way more value in that for me
In an age where people’s attention spans are less and less, it always surprises me that people back these kinds of games
I do it in the hopes that I'll suddenly make two more friends that will be as excited about it as I will
@@WaxDrag I wish I had a DEDICATED group for a game like that… but you get the odd flakey one and it messes it up :/
That is the issue with modern culture - faster pace, faster movie scenes, just consume consume,
Faster!
Relax a bit and enjoy something calmly
@@nickmatv791 fair enough :)
Sucks when it essentially get engrained in our psyche :)
That sounds reasonable, but it really depends. Me and my wife are actually the opposite - we finished Oathsworn and almost finished Gloomhaven (about 50 or so missions, but we didn't like how chaotic the story felt), but we can never get ourselves to play normal games. I swear I have couple of nice 45-60 minutes games we never played and many more we played only a couple of times. The story and routine ussually helps us to stay motivated to play.
German retail price will be approx. 425$!!!! No joke!
This is for sure a good game, especially since I really like Gloomhaven. And it is a lot of material as well as play time… but 425$ vs. Kickstarter 118$ incl shipment w/o tax. I don‘t know…
Really excited for your content. Thanks for taking the time. Cheers and Quack!
The right for you wrong for you should simply come down to 2 questions...
1. Did you finish the Gloomhaven campaign?
2. Do you want more Gloomhaven having finished it?
If you answer "no" to either, then you shouldn't be buying Frosthaven. This isn't even Frosthaven specific logic. Apply it to about any game with a sequel or expansion.
The thing is, there is no one who would buy this game that this would be your only game. It’s way too expensive and complicated to be your first board game.
After a while alI really stopped enjoying GH. Quests felt very blunt and repetitive. I am wondering if it is that extreme again and if it is, is there at least some more rewarding loot (eg ressources for crafting)?
You dont need an insert, the solution in the box is good enough
A video without the 🐦 is wrong for me 😜
Although I'm glad you're still alive ;)
I will be back soon enough Rick!
Quack. that's all I have to say. Quack. oh. and i love the orange nebula shirt. and your hat is dope.
Good video. Bioshock 2 analogy was spot on.
Great video as always. Nicely balanced and reasoned. Keep up the good work. QUACK
Much appreciated!
Thanks for the video and keep up the good work. maybe one day I will get a chance to play through this and gloomhaven
You should! try out the digital game :)
Love this kind of deep dive, hope to see more of that for other games
It's our goal to do 6 campaign deep dives next year. We are spending two months on ISS Vanguard then opening it up to the community.
Newbie here...I am looking for something that can occupy me for a thousand hours.
BUT....I think I may start with Madness nemesis oathsworn or just Monopoly
are you allowed to review the game this early? I thought that there was a specified day & time for these?
Ended on today, the 15th
The 15th
Do you think Frosthaven improved on the writing/plot over Gloomhaven? I'm trying to finish a Gloomhaven campaign but we're getting so turned down by the story (so cheesy/cringy omg) that we almost don't even read the lore anymore and this is slowly killing our enthusiasm. To me it is the main point that needs to show a huge improvement to justify adding it to my collection :(
From what I've been told its a significant step up, they hired a new writer for Frosthaven.
Yep, in my experience so far it has for sure.
Way too big, I have Jaws of the Lion. I'll wait until the digital version comes out like I did for Gloomhaven.
Yea, I can't wait for the digital version!
That would be very unlikely to come out in the next 2 years.
You can't even guarantee there will be a digital version, but there will definitely be a tabletop simulator mod at some point
@@otis6878 I'm in no hurry. Have plenty of other amusements to keep me busy until it gets adapted
Lol Frosthaven is for everyoneeeee ;) :) Me and my wife love it!!
Gloomhaven was and still is #1 game and always will be. Still I think Frosthaven is going to be even better, becauae they kept everything from gloomhaven and added more 🤤
It took 2years for our group, and I guess Frost is going to take up to 3 years 😎 CANT WAIT! I hope the shipments for EU are coming soon.
Ps. Can we expect some more KDM content from you in the future?
Play some different dungeon crawler type of board games, like Warhammer quest 1995, S&S, etc and you may reevaluate your opinion on your #1. There are much better games out there.
@@thundercracker3547 thanks for the tips, I might at least watch some videos of those. I am also intriqued to play the upcoming elder scrolls boardgame, but that was too big of investment for me so I missed my window to pledge in KS. And I have also played a dozen sessions of KDM, but the dice and the battlefield being always almost the same feels a bit too repetitive for me.
I prefer no dice and a lot of variation in the playable characters.
I also would like to try DnD but its impossible to find a group in my town.
I think gloomhaven was one of those games that was overhyped, good game, if you like these types of games.
Played part of Jaws of Lion and found it a little boring so more of the same on a bigger scale means it's not a game I want to play. Plus if you are going to play it in a group then it will take weeks to play, if I wanted to play it solo I'd play a computer game.
Ty for the video!
Quack!
Is the answer no? Probably lol, but we'll see ;)
Haha, the answer is honestly a hard one to come by. The game is amazing . . . but the time and cost to play is a hard sell.
@@Quackalope fair assessment, and I appreciate your thorough dissection on many different levels. As one of those people who doesn't mind pouring a lot of time into a single title and has a group of 4 fairly dedicated participants, I'm looking forward to it.
@@Quackalope The time is more costly for a content creator. For a group of gamers where it is a main game for a while it's not that much of an issue.
And the cost is dirt cheap if you properly calculate the entertainment value - given one actually plays it.
And that one is involved with rebuilding of Frosthaven and has to manage the relationship with the tribes is IMHO massive thematic improvement over GH.
Ask your doctor if Frosthaven is right for you. 😏
Quack great review
great video!
Quack!
Kdm is still king
Yes, KDM is still king. This might be the prince though.
@@Quackalope with Aeon Trespass: Odyssey just arriving for most of the backers, do you have thoughts on it vs KDM?
I have it on the way - I am not convinced it will take KDM down even a bit
@@Quackalope Yeah, not implying it would change your opinion about KDM, but I'm encouraged that a lot of people who enjoyed KDM seem to really be enjoying AT:O as a sort of a parallel/alternate experience. Looking forward to an eventual review/thoughts about it!
Oathsworn is the new king