Saint-Saëns is underrated in similar ways as Mendelssohn (though at least Mendelssohn gets played much more). I remember hearing La Muse et le Poète on the radio about twenty years ago and just being struck by its beauty. Saint-Saëns really was one of the master melodists of late romanticism (which is where your comparison with Dvořák makes a lot of sense again).
Saint-Saëns bassoon sonata is so beautiful! I mean just the opening movement alone is gorgeous. Who knew a bassoon of all instruments could sound so lyrical. Well that’s a master composer for you.
Well then, I'm sorry to say that that is the only really bad recording in this set... The playing is really amateurish. The bassoonist is low almost all the time. Painfully out of tune in the slow movement, and doesn't even manage the few quick notes in the finale. I don't know how this recording could have managed to slip in through the control of this set.
Excellent review, Dave. It’s so great to hear you advocate for composers like Saint-Saëns and Dvorak who, despite having a few popular works, are hugely under-appreciated simply because they weren’t “profound and philosophical” German composers (ugh). I’m glad you singled out the gorgeous 3rd Piano Concerto, the unique “La muse et le poète”, the extraordinarily inventive 2nd Piano Trio, and the delightful Septet. Another lesser-known work of his worth special mention is the wonderfully stormy and dramatic 1st Cello Sonata in C minor.
Thanks for this bringing this set to out attention. Sounds very worthwhile. It's good to have a set that includes so many pieces that aren't generally known.
The head of music at my school loved Saint-Saëns. The orchestra, one assembly, with her as conductor, played the Bacchanale from “Samson and Delilah” (at nearly half the tempo because the orchestra wasn’t proficient enough for the full tempo!) and I was entranced by it. I went home and re-listened to it and slowly started exploring his other works. If it weren’t for her, I wouldn’t have discovered Saint-Saëns and would be all the more poor for it.
The three wind sonatas are terrific, especially the clarinet one, and it is quite astonishing that he composed all three the year he died, when he was 86!
Thanks for this. I would have appreciated seeing the Requiem included, a major choral work that's rarely performed. As you say, Saint-Saëns is underrated (sneered at?) because he was prolific and everything sounds great. In the same category, Massenet is looked down on because writing great music seemed too easy for him. The sacred dramas are incredible (okay, the texts are treacly and a bit unpalatable). The music is totally captivating. You might talk about them when you have the time.
Yes I too think that Saint-Saëns is a very undervalued composer. He has a lot in common with Max Bruch in that their musical styles, once settled, hardly developed and they lived long enough to fall right out of fashion. But if you look at any of his scores, what you see is economy of means and sheer craftsmanship. Oh, and he knew how to write tunes.
Thanks David. I received my box set last week. You are1000% correct. Marvelous music that I had never heard before. This set is an awesome addition to my collection and Saint-Saens is elevated in my list of composers. Again, thanks.
Had been waiting for this. Mine arrived yesterday (with dented corners! 😡) from Amazon. I have most of these on separate CDs but am especially intrigued by some of the transcriptions and historical recordings included in this box - especially the cello transcriptions played by Tortelier. I’m a big Martinon fan and recognize the importance of this cycle, but have always found it sloppy and out of tune. Just listen to the intonation in the opening of the slow movement of the 1st, it’s dreadful. (I quite like the new Soustrot cycle on Naxos which you’ve covered, or even the various Kantorow recordings). Thanks for mentioning La muse et le poete, (one of his most inspired and unique pieces) and also the lack of the 2nd cello concerto, which is a shame. These days there are many good recordings of this piece, and it’s actually creeping its way into the repertoire from complete obscurity. The Viotti quartet recordings are BAD, they should’ve licensed the Miami String Quartet from Conifer. But all in all, combining this box with the recent and fabulous opera releases from Bru-Zane is a pretty comprehensive way to go!
I played cello growing up, and CSS features really heavily in that repitoire, especially for students. I remember assuming CSS was clearly one of the all time greats along with Bach and Mozart, given how much I played his stuff
Yeah, I really do need this. There goes my bank account again. Thanks for the encouragement, which I in more than one sense didn't need. But you're absolutely right--Saint-Saens is one of the most underrated composers ever.
Another revelation, David! Thanks for opening up a window into yet another composer I have neglected. CPE Bach and Saint-Saens! New worlds open up :) How nice that is….
Oh man, now I need *this* too. Many of those concertante works appeared on old Vox recordings that were later compiled to two- or three-CD sets in the Vox-box era. I have all those, but the sound quality wasn't always the best on them. I'm also a big fan of the Fantasie pour Violin & Harpe, op.124; I especially like the driving, passacaglia-like section that appears near to the end. The work does get occasional play, was included in one of the Vox boxes mentioned above, but should be better known in general. I checked, and (as you know with product in hand, David) it is included in the big Warner box.
I have to buy this. Saint Seans is one of my favorite top ten composers. Can't wait for the Bruch and Lalo boxes, if they don't already exist. Bruch especially, because he lived nearly as long as Saint Saens.
Speaking of Saint-Saens the underrated composer, underrated (or simply thus-far little-known) violinist Jinjoo Cho has just dropped a new Saint-Seans album with Mathieu Herzog and Appassionata Ensemble (on Naive).
Symphonies, opera, chamber music...and film music! Saint-Saens has been credited with having been the first major composer to write a movie score - for "The Assasination of the Duc de Guise" in 1908. Did this make it into the box, by any chance?
I have to admit that both the glitch and just getting the big Andre Previn box last month are making me reluctant to go for this box. If it weren't for those things, then this might be a no-brainer for me.
'm waiting for a collection of, at least, the ballet music from the unfamiliar operas. Hey, Naxos? There used to be recordings (going back to Damrosch!) of the Henry VIII sequence which is one of the finest ballet sequences in post-1850 19th century opera. He, like Massenet, had a terrific feel for local color and (to him) exotic idioms. The most amazing of Saint-Saens own recordings for me is the Marche Militaire Francaise a scorching, take no prisoners performance made at the age of 84 but sounding like no one else would dare do it today a third his age !
Dave, you couldn't be more right about Camille Saint-Saens! Unfortunately, I collected just about everything in this box-set separately and as a result of my prior quest-collecting, I pose the question, Dave, is there a greater French composer than him? If anyone claims Saint-Saens did not write gripping, poignant, and profound works, I suggest they listen to Saint-Saens's "La Foi" by Michel Plasson.....it has all of the genius of his Third Symphony...I cannot be enough of a proponent of this piece...it's sweeping, romantic, and covered with drama...
I heard my first live concert in more than 20 months a week ago Friday. It was the Chicago Symphony, with John Sharp playing the first cello concerto. I can't count how many moments when I thought, "wow, is Saint-Saens an underrated composer." BTW, the orchestra also played very loudly in Schumann's Second Symphony. :).
Amazon will not sell and ship this to my (New York State) address for some unknown reason. Meanwhile, I've purchased many other CD boxes, but for some reason every time I try to order this they restrict it??? I really want to get this set....any help from you guys is appreciated.
I use two identical addresses. For some reason, if one doesn't work, the other will. Try calling them. You can actually reach a human rather easily and they may be able to fix it.
Eddie’s Albums: Just go to a music store where they sell CDs and either order it or buy it. WAIT! Music stores that sell CDs doesn’t exist anymore. C’est dommage. Well, that’s the result of shopping online: Brick and mortar stores close and all that’s left is Amazon. C’est tres dommage!!
One reason (I guess) that the piano and orchestra pieces aren't played that much is that SS's piano writing (and that goes for the piano trios as well) is extremely tricky: it's often much harder to play than it sounds, and the notes never go quite the way you expect! But what a very tempting box :-)
Large works not included: Requiem, Ascanio, Javotte, Le Deluge, Cello Suite Op 16, 2nd Cello Concerto… but include 1st Cello Concerto on flugelhorn? 🤔 Naxos and Naive can fill these gaps well.
Well, they included whatever they had, no matter how weird. That's OK. They tried, and Warner at least does these big sets devoted to COMPOSERS rather than just artists.
Great talk David. Couldn't agree more. Saint-Saëns is seriously underrated. Love his Clarinet Sonata and his two Piano Trios but everything he wrote deserves attention. Just enjoy the melodies and chill out. Camille is your man ! By the way there is a great version of the two Piano Trios on Naxos.
The biggest problem with a lot of these budget boxes, this one included, is the lack of texts for anything vocal. Too bad these companies can't include a CD-ROM (remember those?) with all the texts, translations, even liner notes. How much could it cost? But then, most computers today no longer have those drives. So put the material online; of course that would cost them something, too. I wish that some solution could be found. Otherwise, great talk and support for a sadly neglected composer.
David - I wonder why they did not choose to use the excellent set that Jean-Marie Darre recorded for EMI (during 1955-1957) to represent the piano concerti. Perhaps the reason was that they were mono recordings?? In any case, I wonder what you (or Jed) think of that set. - bhaskar
@@DavesClassicalGuide My apologies! Yes, I watched the video completely and saw/heard both that the Darre recordings were included in the set, and that you regard them (rightly) as classics. I had posted the question right after the first mention of the piano concerti - should have waited till the end! I tried to remove my comment once I came to the end of the video - but you had already responded by then! Sorry about that!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have the EMI France remastering and its program notes (if you can trust my translation) describe a concert that must be on anyone's list of "wish I had been there": May, 1926, Jeanne-Marie Darré, l'Orchestre Lamoureux under Paul Paray and all five of the concertos ("en un même et unique concert").
Happy to report that after contacting Warner Music, they just emailed me to advise that they are aware of the problem, are manufacturing replacement discs for disc 15 and will be sending same out in November
Richard Williams: Maybe Trump could wear the “MACA” but I don’t think he knows what classical music is. He probably pays someone to listen to it for him!
Saint-Saëns is underrated in similar ways as Mendelssohn (though at least Mendelssohn gets played much more). I remember hearing La Muse et le Poète on the radio about twenty years ago and just being struck by its beauty. Saint-Saëns really was one of the master melodists of late romanticism (which is where your comparison with Dvořák makes a lot of sense again).
Saint-Saëns bassoon sonata is so beautiful! I mean just the opening movement alone is gorgeous. Who knew a bassoon of all instruments could sound so lyrical. Well that’s a master composer for you.
Well then, I'm sorry to say that that is the only really bad recording in this set... The playing is really amateurish. The bassoonist is low almost all the time. Painfully out of tune in the slow movement, and doesn't even manage the few quick notes in the finale.
I don't know how this recording could have managed to slip in through the control of this set.
Excellent review, Dave. It’s so great to hear you advocate for composers like Saint-Saëns and Dvorak who, despite having a few popular works, are hugely under-appreciated simply because they weren’t “profound and philosophical” German composers (ugh). I’m glad you singled out the gorgeous 3rd Piano Concerto, the unique “La muse et le poète”, the extraordinarily inventive 2nd Piano Trio, and the delightful Septet. Another lesser-known work of his worth special mention is the wonderfully stormy and dramatic 1st Cello Sonata in C minor.
Thanks for this bringing this set to out attention. Sounds very worthwhile. It's good to have a set that includes so many pieces that aren't generally known.
The head of music at my school loved Saint-Saëns. The orchestra, one assembly, with her as conductor, played the Bacchanale from “Samson and Delilah” (at nearly half the tempo because the orchestra wasn’t proficient enough for the full tempo!) and I was entranced by it. I went home and re-listened to it and slowly started exploring his other works. If it weren’t for her, I wouldn’t have discovered Saint-Saëns and would be all the more poor for it.
The three wind sonatas are terrific, especially the clarinet one, and it is quite astonishing that he composed all three the year he died, when he was 86!
Thanks for this. I would have appreciated seeing the Requiem included, a major choral work that's rarely performed. As you say, Saint-Saëns is underrated (sneered at?) because he was prolific and everything sounds great. In the same category, Massenet is looked down on because writing great music seemed too easy for him. The sacred dramas are incredible (okay, the texts are treacly and a bit unpalatable). The music is totally captivating. You might talk about them when you have the time.
I might.
Yes I too think that Saint-Saëns is a very undervalued composer. He has a lot in common with Max Bruch in that their musical styles, once settled, hardly developed and they lived long enough to fall right out of fashion. But if you look at any of his scores, what you see is economy of means and sheer craftsmanship. Oh, and he knew how to write tunes.
Thanks David. I received my box set last week. You are1000% correct. Marvelous music that I had never heard before. This set is an awesome addition to my collection and Saint-Saens is elevated in my list of composers. Again, thanks.
Enjoy!
Had been waiting for this. Mine arrived yesterday (with dented corners! 😡) from Amazon. I have most of these on separate CDs but am especially intrigued by some of the transcriptions and historical recordings included in this box - especially the cello transcriptions played by Tortelier. I’m a big Martinon fan and recognize the importance of this cycle, but have always found it sloppy and out of tune. Just listen to the intonation in the opening of the slow movement of the 1st, it’s dreadful. (I quite like the new Soustrot cycle on Naxos which you’ve covered, or even the various Kantorow recordings). Thanks for mentioning La muse et le poete, (one of his most inspired and unique pieces) and also the lack of the 2nd cello concerto, which is a shame. These days there are many good recordings of this piece, and it’s actually creeping its way into the repertoire from complete obscurity. The Viotti quartet recordings are BAD, they should’ve licensed the Miami String Quartet from Conifer. But all in all, combining this box with the recent and fabulous opera releases from Bru-Zane is a pretty comprehensive way to go!
My corners were dented too, Par for the course.
One for my Christmas list, I think. What a delicious collection this is!
David love your videos! Still waiting on the disk by disk review of karajans complete recordings on DG!
You mean you missed that one?
@@DavesClassicalGuide made me look :)
I played cello growing up, and CSS features really heavily in that repitoire, especially for students. I remember assuming CSS was clearly one of the all time greats along with Bach and Mozart, given how much I played his stuff
Yeah, I really do need this. There goes my bank account again. Thanks for the encouragement, which I in more than one sense didn't need. But you're absolutely right--Saint-Saens is one of the most underrated composers ever.
Another revelation, David! Thanks for opening up a window into yet another composer I have neglected. CPE Bach and Saint-Saens! New worlds open up :) How nice that is….
Oh man, now I need *this* too. Many of those concertante works appeared on old Vox recordings that were later compiled to two- or three-CD sets in the Vox-box era. I have all those, but the sound quality wasn't always the best on them.
I'm also a big fan of the Fantasie pour Violin & Harpe, op.124; I especially like the driving, passacaglia-like section that appears near to the end. The work does get occasional play, was included in one of the Vox boxes mentioned above, but should be better known in general. I checked, and (as you know with product in hand, David) it is included in the big Warner box.
Yes, I mentioned it, I think...
Oops, I'm sure you did. I watched and enjoyed the whole, but somehow missed it in the flying flurry of works.
I stopped the video to listen to the Septet in Eb Major based on your recommendation. What a wonderful piece.
Thank you, so much for another great review!
I have to buy this. Saint Seans is one of my favorite top ten composers. Can't wait for the Bruch and Lalo boxes, if they don't already exist. Bruch especially, because he lived nearly as long as Saint Saens.
How does the transfer of the Fourestier Samson compare to the Naxos release?
Speaking of Saint-Saens the underrated composer, underrated (or simply thus-far little-known) violinist Jinjoo Cho has just dropped a new Saint-Seans album with Mathieu Herzog and Appassionata Ensemble (on Naive).
Saint saens, A Master, Keeps Me Happy, Thankyou Friend Bye for now love Alan
Symphonies, opera, chamber music...and film music! Saint-Saens has been credited with having been the first major composer to write a movie score - for "The Assasination of the Duc de Guise" in 1908. Did this make it into the box, by any chance?
Nope.
I have to admit that both the glitch and just getting the big Andre Previn box last month are making me reluctant to go for this box. If it weren't for those things, then this might be a no-brainer for me.
'm waiting for a collection of, at least, the ballet music from the unfamiliar operas. Hey, Naxos? There used to be recordings (going back to Damrosch!) of the Henry VIII sequence which is one of the finest ballet sequences in post-1850 19th century opera. He, like Massenet, had a terrific feel for local color and (to him) exotic idioms.
The most amazing of Saint-Saens own recordings for me is the Marche Militaire Francaise a scorching, take no prisoners performance made at the age of 84 but sounding like no one else would dare do it today a third his age !
You mean like this one? www.classicstoday.com/review/essential-saint-saens-from-markl-and-malmo/?search=1
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you! Volume 1 I hope. I bought the complete Ascanio CD set in 2019 and have kept up with t the Bru Zane series..
Great review, as always. Thanks.
Saint-Saens quote: "I produce music, as an apple tree produces apples."
Sad that the Cello Concerto No. 2 is missing from this Edition.
Dave, you couldn't be more right about Camille Saint-Saens! Unfortunately, I collected just about everything in this box-set separately and as a result of my prior quest-collecting, I pose the question, Dave, is there a greater French composer than him? If anyone claims Saint-Saens did not write gripping, poignant, and profound works, I suggest they listen to Saint-Saens's "La Foi" by Michel Plasson.....it has all of the genius of his Third Symphony...I cannot be enough of a proponent of this piece...it's sweeping, romantic, and covered with drama...
I heard my first live concert in more than 20 months a week ago Friday. It was the Chicago Symphony, with John Sharp playing the first cello concerto. I can't count how many moments when I thought, "wow, is Saint-Saens an underrated composer." BTW, the orchestra also played very loudly in Schumann's Second Symphony. :).
Amazon will not sell and ship this to my (New York State) address for some unknown reason. Meanwhile, I've purchased many other CD boxes, but for some reason every time I try to order this they restrict it??? I really want to get this set....any help from you guys is appreciated.
I use two identical addresses. For some reason, if one doesn't work, the other will. Try calling them. You can actually reach a human rather easily and they may be able to fix it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks!
Eddie’s Albums: Just go to a music store where they sell CDs and either order it or buy it. WAIT! Music stores that sell CDs doesn’t exist anymore. C’est dommage. Well, that’s the result of shopping online: Brick and mortar stores close and all that’s left is Amazon. C’est tres dommage!!
One reason (I guess) that the piano and orchestra pieces aren't played that much is that SS's piano writing (and that goes for the piano trios as well) is extremely tricky: it's often much harder to play than it sounds, and the notes never go quite the way you expect! But what a very tempting box :-)
Large works not included: Requiem, Ascanio, Javotte, Le Deluge, Cello Suite Op 16, 2nd Cello Concerto… but include 1st Cello Concerto on flugelhorn? 🤔 Naxos and Naive can fill these gaps well.
Well, they included whatever they had, no matter how weird. That's OK. They tried, and Warner at least does these big sets devoted to COMPOSERS rather than just artists.
Great talk David. Couldn't agree more. Saint-Saëns is seriously underrated. Love his Clarinet Sonata and his two Piano Trios but everything he wrote deserves attention. Just enjoy the melodies and chill out. Camille is your man ! By the way there is a great version of the two Piano Trios on Naxos.
Yeah that Joachim Trio recording of the Piano Trios is wonderful. As is the Miami Quartet on Conifer for the string quartets
Trio Wanderer on Harmonia Mundi are absolutely unbeatable in the piano trios IMO.
The biggest problem with a lot of these budget boxes, this one included, is the lack of texts for anything vocal. Too bad these companies can't include a CD-ROM (remember those?) with all the texts, translations, even liner notes. How much could it cost? But then, most computers today no longer have those drives. So put the material online; of course that would cost them something, too. I wish that some solution could be found. Otherwise, great talk and support for a sadly neglected composer.
Yes, the lack of texts really sucks, but better than not having the stuff available at all.
David - I wonder why they did not choose to use the excellent set that Jean-Marie Darre recorded for EMI (during 1955-1957) to represent the piano concerti. Perhaps the reason was that they were mono recordings?? In any case, I wonder what you (or Jed) think of that set. - bhaskar
Did you watch the video? If you did, you would not be asking that question.
@@DavesClassicalGuide My apologies! Yes, I watched the video completely and saw/heard both that the Darre recordings were included in the set, and that you regard them (rightly) as classics. I had posted the question right after the first mention of the piano concerti - should have waited till the end! I tried to remove my comment once I came to the end of the video - but you had already responded by then! Sorry about that!
@@S.K.Bhaskar No problem. That's what happens when you talk about the discs in order!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I have the EMI France remastering and its program notes (if you can trust my translation) describe a concert that must be on anyone's list of "wish I had been there": May, 1926, Jeanne-Marie Darré, l'Orchestre Lamoureux under Paul Paray and all five of the concertos ("en un même et unique concert").
@@michaelcove3572 Wow!
It would have been nice for them to put things in chronological order.
Thanks for another of highly informative talks. Does your set also has a glitch (as reported elsewhere) on disc 15, track 8, between 1:45 and 1:58?
15:19 Maybe watch the video first, before commenting?
@@epicemuchilz You're right (blushes)
Happy to report that after contacting Warner Music, they just emailed me to advise that they are aware of the problem, are manufacturing replacement discs for disc 15 and will be sending same out in November
@@wilhelmvandervyver642: Just checked mine and it has the defect. Could you share the email address you used to contact Warner? Thanks!
Love your red shirt: Make America Classical Again. How about a MACA hat ?
I’d be afraid to wear that. Idiots might miss the satire and think it’s a MAGA shirt and attack you.
That has occurred to me, but I do have normal CT,com hats.
Richard Williams: Maybe Trump could wear the “MACA” but I don’t think he knows what classical music is. He probably pays someone to listen to it for him!
Warner uses themed sleeve art for their composer series. Replica jackets are overrated IMHO.