Excellent . Intelligent understanding. This explains why everyone serves differently. Also huge implications for coaching. Coaches forcing one style onto players is a bad idea .
I like the platform stance. I started with a pinpoint and switched a platform... Went through a service rut and considered going back, but hitting a kick serve from a pinpoint is not ideal for me... I have somewhat of a higher toss and waiting sideways for the ball drop with my feet together just wasn't the best for me. I've narrowed my feet slightly since starting and am about the same with width as Coach Simon... This has been the best for me.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial I agree!!! Once I stopped picking which Pro i wanted to play like and started building my game around myself, it's amazing that you actually start to improve!!! 🤣
Amazing video!! Never seen like this before…it seems really really helpful, will try this technique with faster swing motion next practise!! Thanks a lot👌👍
Excellent video because it conveys your sensations with the different ways of serving. It doesn't look like you're low on strength, Simon. Really very good !
Great advocacy of being always on the lookout for new things, experiment, be curious of all techniques at all times! I definitely can relate with that, Simon.. On the serve, another important topic to experiment with is the grip!! From a continental erring toward the eastern forehand to a continental wandering to the eastern backhand, there's a whole 45° span of valid positions one can experiment with, and it has been a game changer for my motion! (Yes, adjusting your grip does naturally change your contact point and thus affects your whole motion!)
I love it for the first serve and when the timing is on, but I'm not a fan of the second serve with the pinpoint and when you lose the timing, the serve suffers badly
Hi Guys It was nice meeting you today at Queen’s Club, thanks for my daughter’ (Mel)autographs she was so happy to meet real RUclips stars! Good luck with your channels. All the best J.
Thanks for sharing your tinkering on your quest of becoming an even more effectively potent server. It’s so rewarding when it all comes to fruition while overcoming the challenges that comes along~ so worth it bruh
I abbreviated my serve just like you. In 1988 at college I discovered "Roddick' serve. Went back to it for competition in 4.6 35 and over. Rear shoulder weight lifting is required to prevent injuries. So you can be loose like a slow whip.
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial And that's why Roddick's shoulder was very nearly busted near the end of his career, as he admitted to it being extremely taxing on the shoulder.
I also change up my serve a lot. Done just about all of them but not nearly as well as you. Today, I did it mid match. I felt like my returner was getting too much of a read on my serve as well as I wasn't getting the power later into the match. So, I switched to an abbreviated serve to finish out the game. For the rest of the match, I was switching back and forth. Would love to see what service motions make sense to mix up that doesn't tip off my opponent right away. Thanks. Oh, I should say that it was windy today, so the abbreviated serve with lower toss helped also.
Great topic.... thanks so much Captain!!! For me it boils down to relaxation. I have used different stiles also. So, after experimenting with 4 or 5 different motions for the last 2 months, I decided what's best for me is the Stan Wawrinka serve (pinpoint stance, both arms fully extended)
Very helpful video! It's a good reminder that we should listen to our bodies and feel the power, instead of forcing to the so-called standard position we learned.
Very educational. Trial and error. Thanks for pointing out what worked for you and what didn't, quite detailed. Very good piece of advice: experiment and see what works for each one. That's a sign of looking to lose old habits and becoming more flexible and open to new ideas. Love it.
Gr8t video Simon...yes you are right in noticing that you get less spin on slice & kick while using pinpoint stance...I also had same problem & I rectified it by watching Mouratagolou...he suggested to aim at the T while slicing & though you may get less velocity, the angle & depth is very good...cheers mate
I've always accepted and understood why and how my serves compared to many top ATP players. Though, it goes without saying that you shouldn't copy exactly their serve motion since watching your videos. I knew how to time the ball to where I'd make a decent serve in the service box. Back then, before my transition to the platform stance, my go to serve position was the variant of the pinpoint stance with the leg slide, similarly to Andy Murray's. My sliding leg wasn't as pronounced and had more lift with the legs slide before loading the legs up to the ball. It wasn't my best shot to play or that fast or hard but I had so much control and some sidespin to go along with it that in doubles matches, my decent serve didn't matter too much because my partner and I knew our strengths and weaknesses. I was able to place my serve in various positions, such that my opponents would have to play and awkward shot most of the time. I won more points with an emphasis on control and was able to take the points with my partner who was also amazing at placing balls. After about 4 years as a coach, about 2 months ago, I realized that I was just taking too much time setting up my serve and gave my opponents many ways to win points against me. So I eased my transition to the platform stance and it made such a difference in power and efficiency. I have been doing a more proper way of leg drive by removing the leg slide, which help me put more time into loading the legs. As a result, my experiment serve played a huge role in setting up my shots, other than my backhand groundstroke. It made my points less stressful in a way because I know that I can play those kinds of balls and dictate the shots early. The new transformation on your serve is a bit similar to mine. My legs are closer on the platform stance but I don't do that rocking feet motion. I am still experimenting with my serve because I'm wondering in the platform stance how the rocking motion with the feet helps with my serves and if it will help me with power and consistency. Also, I sometimes interchange my serve stances from time to time, depending on the day. Sometimes when I practice my serves, I have this question stuck in my head: "Is it an off-day for me and stick with my previous stance for a little while longer until I find my groove or am I really feeling it and use the new serve stance in my tournaments?" Btw, this video is very insightful. I love how your videos are turning out! Keep experimenting!
Awesome video Simon! I'm constantly tinkering with my serve so I can keep evolving my serve. But in terms of your serve, it looked more rhythmical and effortless when you used the Sampras serve motion. I also like taking the racket up to trophy using the open racket face ala Fed and Sampras as my motion feels more relaxed and rhythmical like this. When's your next tournament? Also, if you ever do one-on-one coaching sessions again, I'll be bang up for having a session with you👍
Thanks for the support Grant. I'm hoping to play again in July, ideally try to play a few events in the lead up to the ITF world champs in August, but time is once again an issue as we have so many lessons to film for our online courses and we are organizing some in person clinics once again so that work takes priority over the training and matches. Let's see what happens
I really like the Carlos Alcaraz technique that you seem to be using, with what appears to be a supinated, hitting strings facing you set up? It is a very simple and explosive motion.
Im almost 5 years onto my tennis, started late 40s and still haven't settled on a serve. I do tend to favor the hybrid type you describe which seems to help more with timing in windy conditions - for me at least. Only yesterday i tried a newer one, i started more with the top edge of the racquet more towards me which i believe is a no no. It was windy and clay courts were damp so it was hard to tell exactly the spin i got, it went rather straight so im guessing top spin but ive never served a ball that spun so violently it went oval shaped. A few factors i think bring inconsistency for me, getting tired (even though i feel strong) and failing at leg drive. Not getting elbow high enough and rushing my serve giving me poor weight transfer. Thats basically why i keep experimenting, looking for something that address my issues, keeps power/ spin while feeling natural and repeatable. Glad to see im not on my own in experimenting, great vid thanks!
Nice video! I personally experimented a bit and like the platform stance with a shorter take back directly to the power position, Andy Roddick style. I’d love to see you do a video on a full analysis of his serve!
This has inspired me to finally overhaul my serve. Normally, I wouldn't dare to do something that extreme, but my serve has been in the toilet for the last year or so. Can't wait to find out what is going to end up like.
I can help You on how to feel young feel much better coach Simon . As your nutrition coach!!! And you’ll be my tennis coach!! Love the way. Your doing and explaining. Your really good at it
All of your serves looked excellent. Your pinpoint stance seemed to get your going into the court more if you are planning to serve and volley. Your volleys are so good I could see you playing that style on faster courts.
What’s the best way to time the leg drive properly. I’m working on a loose grip and more of a natural gravity racquet drop bc I have a tendency to muscle with the arm/ shoulder. Do you increase pressure once the racquet drops naturally and explode into the ball ? That’s the part I need to work on Thanks. Great videos very helpful. The palm down and getting into power position quicker really helps
The best way to time the leg drive is to aim to make contact at the highest spot possible and delay or speed up the motion accordingly so you can use the down-up action in the legs like a jack in the box. That will determine the speed of the service action, and everything should work around that. As for pressure, if the racket is moving at contact, you haven’t held it strong enough, if it’s stable, you’re doing well. The looser you can hold the racket, the more relaxed the muscles will be and the more power you’ll be able to generate. Good luck with the improvements 👍 All the best Simon
I always done platform and always had a big serve, never thought I needed to change it. But Tried pinpoint the other day just to see if it makes a difference. And yup its way better. A little bit faster but the main difference it creates a higher bounce and makes it harder to return. Also pinpoint seems to give more effortless power and easier on the body. I can see why most atp players do pinpoint. Just my opinion (Does take some time to get use to it)
Great advice Simon! Experimenting to find what works best is key. It’s easy to fall into a rut and keep plugging away hoping for the breakthrough when all along if we try a different technique it can open up a whole new world of good.
Apologies for being so late to the party Its a tough question you are asking. Do you use the best serve technically and then attempt to build the athleticism around that or do you go straight to what serve motion you know you can maintain in the 3rd hour of the 3rd set? Clearly you can generate the racquet speed through contact, it then becomes a question of what you can maintain. One thing that seems to be possibly robbing you of power is that your racquet drop leads your leg drive. I am acutely aware how much effort mentally it takes not to let the shoulder take up the role of power generation, but possibly not a bad place to start. With the pinpoint stance it is going to be tough on your kick serve as it causes you to open up much earlier in the swing, instead of staying more side on, which will not help in generating that kick and top spin as well as the good net clearance safety margin you are probably going to want in the later stages of matches. I'm very happy that you are showing us that the process of serve experimentation and improvement is not that easy, but is necessary if you are serious about your serve action outcome in matches, even for somebody as skilled, talented and experienced as yourself as both a player and a coach.
Excellent video! Been thinking about experimenting with different serve styles lately but also torn between just setting on one and working on it. Inspired by this to not be afraid to continually experiment knowing even what's best for me might change over time.
Good video Simon, maybe you can see some videos of Goran Ivanisevic serve to see how is his technique. He has a very fluid motion and an excellent body weight transference. That helps him to create very easy power. Also the rotations and the transfer helps to not ad more stress on the shoulder joints. I personally changed to a similar technique and now I don’t have shoulder pain and I can create a lot of easy power.
I've studied the Goran serve in much detail, in fact I did a Ivanisevic serve analysis for our Serve Course on our website a few years back. A great motion, but it helps when you're 6'4 haha
Goran had a great motion but unless you're a prosessional athlete and built like Goran, you might want to be careful when it comes to the way he placed his feet in the power position; by bringing his rear foot "in front" of his front foot while still coiling plenty with his shoulder creates a lot of stretch and is a recipe for injury for most people.
Hi Simon have you thought about firing your legs earlier in your motion and having a more extreme trophy position aka Roddick and Opelka? This would mean your racket will a celerate more explosively over a longer distance hence ceeating more racket head speed.
Personnally, I am inspired by Chang's service against Lendl. No injury and full efficiency when well executed. By the way, could you prepare a video so that we can master it ? Thanks
Incredible lesson Simon. One question -- in narrow platform/wide pinpoint, do you position your back foot parallel to baseline or point it slightly to back fence. Also, the last pinpoint style that gave the most power looked just like Goran Ivanesevic.
Thanks for watching Michael. The back foot can be in line if you want to focus more on the leg drive, or can be further round and pointing towards the back fence if you want to gain more rotation or drive with the hips/glutes into the court. All the best Simon
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial you serve very well with it despite it's low power/control oriented nature. comments about the racket will be appreciated. cheers!
Thanks Simon for sharing your experience with us. About the Pint Point or Platform Stance, what do you think about finding your dominant leg in the first place?
Take free advice at its value 😊. Consider pulling your left arm down close to your body and driving the elbow back to get better and much more powerful shoulder rotation. This is similar to an ice skater pulling their arms in to rotate faster. It will also lengthen the slowing of the racket after striking the ball, potentially limiting injury. Currently your tossing arm seems straight and is impeding the looseness of your swing.
100% spot on. I've been working on that off-hand the past few days, already made a massive difference. That's why it's so important to use video to see what we're doing. I know what I'm supposed to be doing on the serve, then I watch it back and I'm making a few basic errors
What I’ve noticed from your new serve transformation is how much higher your elbow is compared to the previous technique. I find that when I get tired and serves are off, I remind myself to lift my elbows and it usually helps. Nice video coach.
Simon, your 'Normal Serve Technique' is my favorite! Hard to improve on your 'NST' but I agree experimenting with various techniques can be very worthwhile.
Great analysis! I love the fact you’re not advocating a formula. Step 1, step 2 etc. I believe in every stroke there’s a trade off between power versus control, simplicity/reliability versus variety. Etc. Is there a perfect solution? Tell me when you find the best.
Leg drive timing is often overlooked. I think it’s the reason some people favor certain stances/swings. Every service motion would benefit from driving the legs when the racket reaches the trophy position or just before instead of letting the racket drop first.
First of all… nice video! Do you have a real life tennis serve bootcamp or clinic of some kind? I’m really struggling with my serve and can’t manage to correct it… Thanks in advance for your feedback.
I like serve 3 and 4 the best. In my opinion Federer’s and Sampras’ serves are two difficult to mimic. Both of their serves come from being very fluid and relaxed. 3 is a great serve for consistency because it’s simple and very compact. 4 is a great serve too, especially how you did it, because your step was more forward towards, whereas most pinpoint serves step parallel to the baseline. As always, though, you should do the one that works the best for you.
How important is the weight shifting to the back foot? I made a big change to my serve about 4 years ago. Wide platform (copied Sampras). I noticed unlike Fed, Sampras’s back foot “squirrels around” upon accelerating into the swing. I.e. the vast majority of the weight is on the front foot (as mine is). So… how much drive really comes from the back foot?
The back foot is massively important with both stances but more so with the platform. I advise you to hit serves off the back leg only, and you’ll see the difference when you go back to normal
I played a lot of baseball and football when I was young. I used to play catch with footballs with older kids when I was about 7. When I first started playing tennis in 1975 it was very easy to serve. I had a serve similar to Sampras’s serve.
Developing a good throwing motion is certainly a fundamental to having a good serve. One of the reasons a lot of the WTA players struggle with the serve. Boys throw much more as kids than girls, in general
I do a toe drag into the serve. Split stance. Everything you loose following thru, is saved with the drag. It kills shoes. But you have that second to get around. No one talks about it. I think it may be something...
Dragging the back foot into the pinpoint? Works for some players, but in general, lifting the foot and getting them together in the pinpoint stance allows for much more leg drive using both legs. But interesting to hear your own experience
No idea, last time I played on a court with a proper radar technology, I was hitting 115-120mph. This was years ago though, and I think I’m serving bigger recently, after this video I switched rackets which has made a huge difference power wise
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial That's impressive. So 120mph is 193kmh so that's really fast! If you are serving faster than that now, you are basically serving like a pro. It's really amazing. I'm an intermediate player with a big serve. I've never had it radared but I would guess it would be around 110mph but then I'd probably get it in maybe only 50% of the time at that speed.
I noticed that the platform stance is pretty much nonexistent on the WTA tour. What is your reasoning behind this? Also, is it possible to be successful with a platform stance serve as a woman?
There’s been a few I remember over the years, Justine Henin being one. There’s a massive reason behind why many WTA players use the pinpoint, a lot to do with easier power but also a lot of girls don’t focus on their serve until they’re teens. How often do you see a girl hitting serves alone in a club, as opposed to a boy? It’s very rare. It’s definitely a subject I can speak on in great detail but that’s a future video maybe
No, unless you’ve been playing tennis for many years and are already at a high level at by training you mean training full time. But to start playing at 16 and become a pro? No chance. There are players at 16 who have played for 12 years already and are playing ITF futures and they’ll never make it, how can you make up a 12 year disadvantage?
I don’t understand how your toss is just so relaxed and it seems like the ball just floats in the air and you have plenty of time to strike it. It seems like whenever I serve I’m always to early or too late hitting the ball and it just seems like you have all the time in the world when you toss and then strike the ball
Think about placing the ball, as opposed to throwing it. That’s a game changer for most players. By placing it, you’ll slow down the hand, control the toss and create more time for the swing. Good luck with the improvements 💪 Simon
Keep experimenting,until find most efficient stance, your body will tell you. Madison keys from Pinpoint to platform, Jabeur did opposite, Sam Groth mention he also went through lots, F Lopez use platform to warmup
Keep working on your serve and it will improve, there's no shortcuts, you have to put in the work and use the right drills and tips to help the journey
you are talking a lot of style. if you know what to look at almost any style can lead to a good motion. should not one work more on fundementals to improve ? e.g. hips, separation...
Download our FREE serve guide here - www.top-tennis-training.com/serve-guide/
Thank you for the great video! I never thought about trying new serve techniques!
Excellent .
Intelligent understanding. This explains why everyone serves differently.
Also huge implications for coaching.
Coaches forcing one style onto players is a bad idea .
Thanks for watching 🙏
I like the platform stance. I started with a pinpoint and switched a platform... Went through a service rut and considered going back, but hitting a kick serve from a pinpoint is not ideal for me... I have somewhat of a higher toss and waiting sideways for the ball drop with my feet together just wasn't the best for me. I've narrowed my feet slightly since starting and am about the same with width as Coach Simon... This has been the best for me.
It’s so important to experiment and find what works best for your game and body 💪
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial I agree!!! Once I stopped picking which Pro i wanted to play like and started building my game around myself, it's amazing that you actually start to improve!!! 🤣
Amazing video!! Never seen like this before…it seems really really helpful, will try this technique with faster swing motion next practise!! Thanks a lot👌👍
Excellent video because it conveys your sensations with the different ways of serving.
It doesn't look like you're low on strength, Simon.
Really very good !
Many thanks 🙏
Great advocacy of being always on the lookout for new things, experiment, be curious of all techniques at all times! I definitely can relate with that, Simon..
On the serve, another important topic to experiment with is the grip!! From a continental erring toward the eastern forehand to a continental wandering to the eastern backhand, there's a whole 45° span of valid positions one can experiment with, and it has been a game changer for my motion! (Yes, adjusting your grip does naturally change your contact point and thus affects your whole motion!)
Especially for the kick serve, so important to have those slight adjustments and feel the difference
Step into pinpoint looks like Goran! Go with that. 👍
I love it for the first serve and when the timing is on, but I'm not a fan of the second serve with the pinpoint and when you lose the timing, the serve suffers badly
Hi Guys
It was nice meeting you today at Queen’s Club, thanks for my daughter’ (Mel)autographs she was so happy to meet real RUclips stars!
Good luck with your channels.
All the best
J.
Many thanks for the support J, it was nice to meet you too and good luck with Mel 🙏
All the best
Simon
Thanks for sharing your tinkering on your quest of becoming an even more effectively potent server. It’s so rewarding when it all comes to fruition while overcoming the challenges that comes along~ so worth it bruh
Appreciate the serve motions and your thoughts Simon.
Thanks for the support Javi 🙏
I abbreviated my serve just like you. In 1988 at college I discovered "Roddick' serve. Went back to it for competition in 4.6 35 and over. Rear shoulder weight lifting is required to prevent injuries. So you can be loose like a slow whip.
100% needs a lot of work on the rotator cuff and shoulder muscles
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial And that's why Roddick's shoulder was very nearly busted near the end of his career, as he admitted to it being extremely taxing on the shoulder.
I also change up my serve a lot. Done just about all of them but not nearly as well as you. Today, I did it mid match. I felt like my returner was getting too much of a read on my serve as well as I wasn't getting the power later into the match. So, I switched to an abbreviated serve to finish out the game. For the rest of the match, I was switching back and forth. Would love to see what service motions make sense to mix up that doesn't tip off my opponent right away. Thanks. Oh, I should say that it was windy today, so the abbreviated serve with lower toss helped also.
Thanks for watching 👍
Great Top Shelf Info ... I've used the narrow platform stance since the Mid 80's and I've never heard anyone else mention it. THANKS
Excellent tips! You are truly the great coach I’ve come across! Krupp up th good work!
Thank you so much for the support Karen 🙏
All the best
Simon
super consistant. nice one.
Cheers 🍻
Excellent stuff, been experimenting with those approaches a lot myself. How about pinpoint for first serve and platform for second?
Excellent video, excellent technique, thank you very much, Simon.
Glad it was helpful!
totally agree. nothing to add. cheers
Thanks for watching 👍
Great topic.... thanks so much Captain!!! For me it boils down to relaxation. I have used different stiles also. So, after experimenting with 4 or 5 different motions for the last 2 months, I decided what's best for me is the Stan Wawrinka serve (pinpoint stance, both arms fully extended)
Good luck with the improvements 👍
Thank you Simon- great video
Many thanks 🙏
Very helpful video! It's a good reminder that we should listen to our bodies and feel the power, instead of forcing to the so-called standard position we learned.
Experimenting is definitely the best way to find what works for us, as individuals
Thanks dude. This is sound advice as usual 👍👍
My pleasure 🙏
Very educational. Trial and error. Thanks for pointing out what worked for you and what didn't, quite detailed. Very good piece of advice: experiment and see what works for each one. That's a sign of looking to lose old habits and becoming more flexible and open to new ideas. Love it.
Many thanks for watching 👍
Very clean and fluid. I liked the Sampras style the most. Another very fluid and seemed effortless was Michel Stich's
Thanks for watching Jorge
how about Federer style ?
@@CarlUsana-o3l very similar, the jump is more up and less forward, perhaps because he prefers to begin from the baseline.
Gr8t video Simon...yes you are right in noticing that you get less spin on slice & kick while using pinpoint stance...I also had same problem & I rectified it by watching Mouratagolou...he suggested to aim at the T while slicing & though you may get less velocity, the angle & depth is very good...cheers mate
Thanks for watching
I've always accepted and understood why and how my serves compared to many top ATP players. Though, it goes without saying that you shouldn't copy exactly their serve motion since watching your videos. I knew how to time the ball to where I'd make a decent serve in the service box. Back then, before my transition to the platform stance, my go to serve position was the variant of the pinpoint stance with the leg slide, similarly to Andy Murray's. My sliding leg wasn't as pronounced and had more lift with the legs slide before loading the legs up to the ball. It wasn't my best shot to play or that fast or hard but I had so much control and some sidespin to go along with it that in doubles matches, my decent serve didn't matter too much because my partner and I knew our strengths and weaknesses. I was able to place my serve in various positions, such that my opponents would have to play and awkward shot most of the time. I won more points with an emphasis on control and was able to take the points with my partner who was also amazing at placing balls.
After about 4 years as a coach, about 2 months ago, I realized that I was just taking too much time setting up my serve and gave my opponents many ways to win points against me. So I eased my transition to the platform stance and it made such a difference in power and efficiency. I have been doing a more proper way of leg drive by removing the leg slide, which help me put more time into loading the legs. As a result, my experiment serve played a huge role in setting up my shots, other than my backhand groundstroke. It made my points less stressful in a way because I know that I can play those kinds of balls and dictate the shots early. The new transformation on your serve is a bit similar to mine. My legs are closer on the platform stance but I don't do that rocking feet motion. I am still experimenting with my serve because I'm wondering in the platform stance how the rocking motion with the feet helps with my serves and if it will help me with power and consistency. Also, I sometimes interchange my serve stances from time to time, depending on the day. Sometimes when I practice my serves, I have this question stuck in my head: "Is it an off-day for me and stick with my previous stance for a little while longer until I find my groove or am I really feeling it and use the new serve stance in my tournaments?"
Btw, this video is very insightful. I love how your videos are turning out! Keep experimenting!
Thanks for watching and for sharing your own serve journey with us.
All the best
Simon
Best yet thanks
Thank you for the support 🙏
Really cool to see your progression
Thanks for the support
If I can bend my knees in as much as you what should I choose between the platform and pin point ones?
Test out both and see which one suits you more
Awesome video Simon! I'm constantly tinkering with my serve so I can keep evolving my serve.
But in terms of your serve, it looked more rhythmical and effortless when you used the Sampras serve motion.
I also like taking the racket up to trophy using the open racket face ala Fed and Sampras as my motion feels more relaxed and rhythmical like this.
When's your next tournament?
Also, if you ever do one-on-one coaching sessions again, I'll be bang up for having a session with you👍
Thanks for the support Grant.
I'm hoping to play again in July, ideally try to play a few events in the lead up to the ITF world champs in August, but time is once again an issue as we have so many lessons to film for our online courses and we are organizing some in person clinics once again so that work takes priority over the training and matches.
Let's see what happens
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Hi Simon awesome. Will you be having any in person clinics in the UK?
At first I was wondering why you switched to pinpoint. The narrative helps to clarify, thx
Thanks for watching
The hybrid style serve works best for me. It is easier to get consistency as you mentioned.
Less can go wrong
I really like the Carlos Alcaraz technique that you seem to be using, with what appears to be a supinated, hitting strings facing you set up? It is a very simple and explosive motion.
Im almost 5 years onto my tennis, started late 40s and still haven't settled on a serve. I do tend to favor the hybrid type you describe which seems to help more with timing in windy conditions - for me at least.
Only yesterday i tried a newer one, i started more with the top edge of the racquet more towards me which i believe is a no no. It was windy and clay courts were damp so it was hard to tell exactly the spin i got, it went rather straight so im guessing top spin but ive never served a ball that spun so violently it went oval shaped.
A few factors i think bring inconsistency for me, getting tired (even though i feel strong) and failing at leg drive. Not getting elbow high enough and rushing my serve giving me poor weight transfer. Thats basically why i keep experimenting, looking for something that address my issues, keeps power/ spin while feeling natural and repeatable.
Glad to see im not on my own in experimenting, great vid thanks!
Thanks for watching and for sharing your own serve journey.
Good luck with the improvements
Simon
Thank you! I didn't know I needed to know this.
Thanks for watching 👍
really nice serving tutorial this changed my serve a lot
Great to hear!
Nice video! I personally experimented a bit and like the platform stance with a shorter take back directly to the power position, Andy Roddick style. I’d love to see you do a video on a full analysis of his serve!
Here you go- ruclips.net/video/LNvhQOyOLbA/видео.html
This has inspired me to finally overhaul my serve. Normally, I wouldn't dare to do something that extreme, but my serve has been in the toilet for the last year or so. Can't wait to find out what is going to end up like.
Go for it, nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Good luck with the changes,
Simon
Thanks for sharing. Very good!
Thanks for watching!
I can help You on how to feel young feel much better coach Simon . As your nutrition coach!!! And you’ll be my tennis coach!! Love the way. Your doing and explaining. Your really good at it
Thanks for watching and for the support Christian
All of your serves looked excellent. Your pinpoint stance seemed to get your going into the court more if you are planning to serve and volley. Your volleys are so good I could see you playing that style on faster courts.
Thanks for the support Randy
What’s the best way to time the leg drive properly. I’m working on a loose grip and more of a natural gravity racquet drop bc I have a tendency to muscle with the arm/ shoulder. Do you increase pressure once the racquet drops naturally and explode into the ball ? That’s the part I need to work on Thanks. Great videos very helpful. The palm down and getting into power position quicker really helps
The best way to time the leg drive is to aim to make contact at the highest spot possible and delay or speed up the motion accordingly so you can use the down-up action in the legs like a jack in the box.
That will determine the speed of the service action, and everything should work around that.
As for pressure, if the racket is moving at contact, you haven’t held it strong enough, if it’s stable, you’re doing well.
The looser you can hold the racket, the more relaxed the muscles will be and the more power you’ll be able to generate.
Good luck with the improvements 👍
All the best
Simon
I always done platform and always had a big serve, never thought I needed to change it. But Tried pinpoint the other day just to see if it makes a difference.
And yup its way better. A little bit faster but the main difference it creates a higher bounce and makes it harder to return. Also pinpoint seems to give more effortless power and easier on the body.
I can see why most atp players do pinpoint.
Just my opinion
(Does take some time to get use to it)
It definitely gives the majority of players more power
Brilliant vids as always 👍
Many thanks 🙏
Very interesting thank you so much!
Thanks for watching 👍
Great advice Simon! Experimenting to find what works best is key. It’s easy to fall into a rut and keep plugging away hoping for the breakthrough when all along if we try a different technique it can open up a whole new world of good.
Great video!
Many thanks for the support 🙏
Apologies for being so late to the party
Its a tough question you are asking.
Do you use the best serve technically and then attempt to build the athleticism around that or do you go straight to what serve motion you know you can maintain in the 3rd hour of the 3rd set?
Clearly you can generate the racquet speed through contact, it then becomes a question of what you can maintain.
One thing that seems to be possibly robbing you of power is that your racquet drop leads your leg drive. I am acutely aware how much effort mentally it takes not to let the shoulder take up the role of power generation, but possibly not a bad place to start.
With the pinpoint stance it is going to be tough on your kick serve as it causes you to open up much earlier in the swing, instead of staying more side on, which will not help in generating that kick and top spin as well as the good net clearance safety margin you are probably going to want in the later stages of matches.
I'm very happy that you are showing us that the process of serve experimentation and improvement is not that easy, but is necessary if you are serious about your serve action outcome in matches, even for somebody as skilled, talented and experienced as yourself as both a player and a coach.
Really interesting video. Can you translate what you learned into takeaways for the recreational player?
Here are all my serve lessons in one - www.top-tennis-training.com/serve-access/
Excellent video! Been thinking about experimenting with different serve styles lately but also torn between just setting on one and working on it. Inspired by this to not be afraid to continually experiment knowing even what's best for me might change over time.
This!
Good video Simon, maybe you can see some videos of Goran Ivanisevic serve to see how is his technique. He has a very fluid motion and an excellent body weight transference. That helps him to create very easy power. Also the rotations and the transfer helps to not ad more stress on the shoulder joints. I personally changed to a similar technique and now I don’t have shoulder pain and I can create a lot of easy power.
I've studied the Goran serve in much detail, in fact I did a Ivanisevic serve analysis for our Serve Course on our website a few years back.
A great motion, but it helps when you're 6'4 haha
Goran had a great motion but unless you're a prosessional athlete and built like Goran, you might want to be careful when it comes to the way he placed his feet in the power position; by bringing his rear foot "in front" of his front foot while still coiling plenty with his shoulder creates a lot of stretch and is a recipe for injury for most people.
Simon, Alex - do you have any recommendation for serving alterations with a slight rotator cuff tear?
Yes, rest and let your shoulder heal. It won’t get better by using it
Hi Simon have you thought about firing your legs earlier in your motion and having a more extreme trophy position aka Roddick and Opelka?
This would mean your racket will a celerate more explosively over a longer distance hence ceeating more racket head speed.
Tested them all out mate, stuck with the abbreviated motion for time being
well done!!
Personnally, I am inspired by Chang's service against Lendl. No injury and full efficiency when well executed. By the way, could you prepare a video so that we can master it ? Thanks
A video on Chang’s serve?
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial underarm serves, how to make it perfectly
The pinpoint stance looks the best, and you are lagging the racket sligthly also!
Cheers Hans
Great lesson Simon!
Incredible lesson Simon. One question -- in narrow platform/wide pinpoint, do you position your back foot parallel to baseline or point it slightly to back fence. Also, the last pinpoint style that gave the most power looked just like Goran Ivanesevic.
Thanks for watching Michael.
The back foot can be in line if you want to focus more on the leg drive, or can be further round and pointing towards the back fence if you want to gain more rotation or drive with the hips/glutes into the court.
All the best
Simon
thanks coach s
Thanks for watching
thanks for the video. I see you are using dunlop cx , which one is it?
CX 200 tour frame
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial you serve very well with it despite it's low power/control oriented nature. comments about the racket will be appreciated. cheers!
Thanks Simon for sharing your experience with us. About the Pint Point or Platform Stance, what do you think about finding your dominant leg in the first place?
Most right handers are left leg dominate so should work on hitting serves off the back leg. This will help a pinpoint or platform stance serve
Take free advice at its value 😊. Consider pulling your left arm down close to your body and driving the elbow back to get better and much more powerful shoulder rotation. This is similar to an ice skater pulling their arms in to rotate faster. It will also lengthen the slowing of the racket after striking the ball, potentially limiting injury. Currently your tossing arm seems straight and is impeding the looseness of your swing.
That would also be like a fast bowler in cricket who does the shoulder over shoulder mechanics.
100% spot on.
I've been working on that off-hand the past few days, already made a massive difference. That's why it's so important to use video to see what we're doing.
I know what I'm supposed to be doing on the serve, then I watch it back and I'm making a few basic errors
What I’ve noticed from your new serve transformation is how much higher your elbow is compared to the previous technique. I find that when I get tired and serves are off, I remind myself to lift my elbows and it usually helps. Nice video coach.
Thanks for watching
That’s great advice. Do you measure your serve speed or do you strictly go by the feel?
Strictly by feel atm and then I’ll try to test it in matches and see how it feels/holds up
Which serve style did you like the most?
the only one that works for me, wide stance
I like the pinpoint serve style the most. I recently changed to pinpoint stance too.
Simon, your 'Normal Serve Technique' is my favorite! Hard to improve on your 'NST' but I agree experimenting with various techniques can be very worthwhile.
Pinpoint
Great analysis! I love the fact you’re not advocating a formula. Step 1, step 2 etc. I believe in every stroke there’s a trade off between power versus control, simplicity/reliability versus variety. Etc. Is there a perfect solution? Tell me when you find the best.
I’ll make an update hopefully
The New serve hybrid..can you give me link or can i buy more Videos from the New serve motion?
You want to learn that serve?
Yes i want it
Yes i want to learn it...
Great vid 👏
Leg drive timing is often overlooked. I think it’s the reason some people favor certain stances/swings. Every service motion would benefit from driving the legs when the racket reaches the trophy position or just before instead of letting the racket drop first.
👍
First of all… nice video!
Do you have a real life tennis serve bootcamp or clinic of some kind? I’m really struggling with my serve and can’t manage to correct it…
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
We're finalizing some dates for later this summer and will announce it shortly. Are you on our email list?
I just subscribed ;-)
Super!
Many thanks 🙏
I like serve 3 and 4 the best. In my opinion Federer’s and Sampras’ serves are two difficult to mimic. Both of their serves come from being very fluid and relaxed. 3 is a great serve for consistency because it’s simple and very compact. 4 is a great serve too, especially how you did it, because your step was more forward towards, whereas most pinpoint serves step parallel to the baseline. As always, though, you should do the one that works the best for you.
Great video...
Thanks for the support 🙏
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial The pleasure's all mine..
音とスウィングスピードがスゴイ。
サポートに感謝します。
よろしく、サイモン
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial ありがとうございます。
I just bought your courses tysm for the sale
We hope you’ll enjoy it and learn a lot
How important is the weight shifting to the back foot? I made a big change to my serve about 4 years ago. Wide platform (copied Sampras). I noticed unlike Fed, Sampras’s back foot “squirrels around” upon accelerating into the swing. I.e. the vast majority of the weight is on the front foot (as mine is). So… how much drive really comes from the back foot?
The back foot is massively important with both stances but more so with the platform. I advise you to hit serves off the back leg only, and you’ll see the difference when you go back to normal
Are those Pete Sampras socks back in stock? ;-)
Found those in Turkey in a Nike shop. First tennis socks I’ve enjoyed wearing in a while
I played a lot of baseball and football when I was young. I used to play catch with footballs with older kids when I was about 7. When I first started playing tennis in 1975 it was very easy to serve. I had a serve similar to Sampras’s serve.
Developing a good throwing motion is certainly a fundamental to having a good serve. One of the reasons a lot of the WTA players struggle with the serve. Boys throw much more as kids than girls, in general
I do a toe drag into the serve. Split stance. Everything you loose following thru, is saved with the drag. It kills shoes. But you have that second to get around. No one talks about it. I think it may be something...
Dragging the back foot into the pinpoint?
Works for some players, but in general, lifting the foot and getting them together in the pinpoint stance allows for much more leg drive using both legs. But interesting to hear your own experience
Simon, can you show some side views
John, can you explain why
Out of curiousity how fast is your serve? I'm from Australia so I do km/h but it looks like it's pretty comfortably around 180-190km/h maybe more?
No idea, last time I played on a court with a proper radar technology, I was hitting 115-120mph.
This was years ago though, and I think I’m serving bigger recently, after this video I switched rackets which has made a huge difference power wise
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial That's impressive. So 120mph is 193kmh so that's really fast! If you are serving faster than that now, you are basically serving like a pro. It's really amazing. I'm an intermediate player with a big serve. I've never had it radared but I would guess it would be around 110mph but then I'd probably get it in maybe only 50% of the time at that speed.
I noticed that the platform stance is pretty much nonexistent on the WTA tour. What is your reasoning behind this? Also, is it possible to be successful with a platform stance serve as a woman?
There’s been a few I remember over the years, Justine Henin being one. There’s a massive reason behind why many WTA players use the pinpoint, a lot to do with easier power but also a lot of girls don’t focus on their serve until they’re teens. How often do you see a girl hitting serves alone in a club, as opposed to a boy? It’s very rare. It’s definitely a subject I can speak on in great detail but that’s a future video maybe
Do you think it is possible to go pro If i start training at 16.
No, unless you’ve been playing tennis for many years and are already at a high level at by training you mean training full time. But to start playing at 16 and become a pro? No chance.
There are players at 16 who have played for 12 years already and are playing ITF futures and they’ll never make it, how can you make up a 12 year disadvantage?
@@TopTennisTrainingOfficial Thanks for answer
I don’t understand how your toss is just so relaxed and it seems like the ball just floats in the air and you have plenty of time to strike it. It seems like whenever I serve I’m always to early or too late hitting the ball and it just seems like you have all the time in the world when you toss and then strike the ball
Think about placing the ball, as opposed to throwing it. That’s a game changer for most players. By placing it, you’ll slow down the hand, control the toss and create more time for the swing.
Good luck with the improvements 💪
Simon
2:35 holy shit
Best slice serve I’ve hit in 2022
Keep experimenting,until find most efficient stance, your body will tell you. Madison keys from Pinpoint to platform, Jabeur did opposite, Sam Groth mention he also went through lots, F Lopez use platform to warmup
Precisely 👍
I can watch you serve for hours.. I can't generate much racket head speed
Keep working on your serve and it will improve, there's no shortcuts, you have to put in the work and use the right drills and tips to help the journey
youb are pro
Thanks for the support
Anybody know what is the racket he is using..?
The black and red is a CX 200 tour
My one handed back hand is better but very unstable any tips?
Here you go - ruclips.net/video/hf5U3I7Z5YQ/видео.html
Thank you
I think the underarm serve is your best option...
Possibly
You forgot your McEnroe serve.
Next time 😂
Jeepers, I wish I had your "bad" serve.
🤣
you are talking a lot of style. if you know what to look at almost any style can lead to a good motion. should not one work more on fundementals to improve ? e.g. hips, separation...
Exactly why I created this lesson - ruclips.net/video/CzynpB0Iw8A/видео.html
Moderna serva
Thank you for watching 👍
Any lessons you would like to see in 2023?
I get way too much power on my serve no matter what stance I use.... albeit it's an underarm serve! 😜
...and then I could beat ....Schwartzman!😋
Vamos
:):):):)
😉