Great vide thanks. We have been using a 16kg Delta for the last 4 years on a 45’ Sun Odyssey. It has been great so far. We have found that regardless of scope, it needs 30m of 10mm chain deployed to get a good initial set. Once you have that you can shorten chain if you feel like you need to. It has held us in a 60-70kts storm for over 2 hours and then in a sustained blow of 30-40 kts for almost 3 days. After that it was buried so deep, the shank being almost a foot below the surface of the sea bed which is predominantly sand as long as you avoid the Posidonia grass. Resetting through 180 turns has been good, normally within 1-1.5 anchor lengths under normal weather shifts.
Your videos on anchor testing are a fantastic service to the boating community. Thankyou so much ! It helps one make an informed decision rather than just relying on advertising and the personal opinions of yachtsmen which are generally not based on any direct controlled comparisons. Thankyou!
Anchored well 16 years with 16kg delta on 36 feet 8 ton ketch. Upgraded to a 25kg delta. It dragged in windshift with mud/plants on first year. Saw 3 boats over last 2 years with problems with rocna´s. (windhifts, clogged up anchor.) Still bought a second hand rocna 25 for harder bottoms and very soft mud. Have not used it yet. Best is to anchor on 2 anchors if you can. Bahamian moor. This way you can get by with cheaper options.
Wow! You have THE most thorough anchor videos we have ever seen. Sad to see you haven't posted in a year. We just released a general video about how to choose the right anchor for your sailing style and your boat, but will be referring people to your videos for reviews of specific gear. Thanks for what you do! (Our recent anchor video is here: ruclips.net/video/s38sH_gueew/видео.html )
For my 36ft, 10 metric tons ketch I used for 24 years a 16 kilo Delta with good results. Instead of going for the Rocna 15 kilo I bought this week a 25 kilo Delta. This also because of your videos and 2 neighbours with serious Rocna mishaps this year. With electric anchor winches these days we should all opt for an "oversized" anchor. Seems the convex shaped anchors reset better because of lack of clogging-up. Thanks a lot.
@@jimp313 Hello Jim, My first neighbor was on a small 3 ton sloop stationary anchored for 3 months with 15 kg rocna, chain and adequate scope in 2-5 meter water with soft mud bottom and no plants. Then...he dragged in 30 knots which was not uncommen wind strength (portugal). He is an experienced sailor. Second occurance (different location firm mud/sand) with a 31 foot Hallberg Monsun with 15 kg rocna during a gale with 40+ gusts. He dragged and hit some pilings. His boat "sailed" alot on his anchor. I was anchored there and then with 16 kg delta on sufficient scope with my ketch (contest 36 mk1). I believe the Rocna is a fine anchor. But I remember the hype when the Bruce entered the market. Maybe the Vulcan or Spade is best. A role bar is not so important if the balance is right and it fouls the anchor too and hampers resetting. As is shown in the videos. Thus I opted for the 25kg Delta. But wouldn't mind owning a new concave anchor. ( as a stern/kedge anchor I use a Brittany 16kg) I also still use a 45 CQR sometimes and a Bruce 20, Fisherman Luke 50kg. When there is room I often anchor "Bahamian Moor" so that the anchors dont have to reverse pulling direction. The Plough anchors work well that way. Contrary to current believe I notice them diggig deeper (also CQR) (In softer bottoms) Good luck, anchoring is never 100 percent safe.
Hi from Olympia! Thanks for the greatest reviews of anchors ever made! You could market your data, I'm sure. I'm buying a 33lb Rocna based on your videos (west marine has 40% off on anchors and rode - starts this Thursday). It's WAY oversized for my boat, but I'm tired of dragging, also I plan to sell the 28 bayliner I have now and get a sailing boat - as ocean worthy as I can afford, and use the same anchor (hopes). Anyway, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I am just blown away on your detailed analysis of anchors. Especially the impossible camera views and non-bias scope - you are amazing sir! It's really what we all imagine our anchors are doing (or not doing) as we are backing up, "are we stopped?.... well, we were, then we broke lose again! Pull it up, let's try again!" And again, and again, and again. This is my third anchor, and my last, I already feel comfortable about choice due to your videos. Can't wait to test it out. Thanks
Oh, I did have a question, though: why so fast on the sets? Is there a difference when it's 1 knot vs 3.5? Im just thinking about tide change. Which is my biggest concern around the Puget sound.
Thanks, Kass. My test philosophy is to simulate worst case scenarios. My choices of 2 knots for the initial set and 3.5 knots for my 180 degree reversal tests was arbitrary . Think of my tests as similar to the automobile tests where they drive a car into a wall. Steve
I looked on west marine's website and didn't see anything about 40% off anchors, but your comment got me looking for it. I'm in the market for a new anchor and 40% off would be great, these anchors aren't cheap. Where did you see the 40% off?
Brian Tye , I just checked and was corrected. Only certain anchors are one sale, some for 40% some for 20% and some aren't at all. I think the best bet is to just go in and ask. The one I'm going for is only 20%. Please forgive me for the confusion
Do you think one of these 10kg Delta anchors would work for a 20ft angling boat with only a 25hp outboard motor ? Maybe the reverse power would not dig the anchor in enough to set . Thanks for any suggestions. Great video .
Great work testing all these anchors, I am loving your videos. Have you ever considered testing one of those folding grapnel anchors? I am really curious how this type of anchor compares to the others. Not expecting it to do fantastically, but maybe it outperforms the Bruce anchor
Hi. I am preparing currently to sail the world solo, getting in remote areas and anchor as much as I can. I just changed from a 20Kg Bruce to an20Kg Delta-Anchor. After seeing this, I will change this Anchor and buy something better. Your testing has been by far the best I ever came across. THANK YOU FOR THAT:-) I have a 33Ft Sailboat with about 8Tons and I have rather an oversized Anchor, with 70 Meters of 8mm, regular Chain for the Main Anchor set up. As I have a Bowspriet, I have to find Ideas too, how to mount my 2 Anchors left and right halfway and on the outside of the Bowspriet. What is in your Opinion the best Anchor for me? I will be anchoring about 99% and this will include the 2 dangerous Capes of the World in South America and Africa. Many talk about the Manta Anchor, but the new one has screews in it and I do not trust any Screews with my life. I will face very heavy weather while anchoring too. Thanks for your Opinion.
anchor tip,never use a blunt anchor,if your anchor is blunt sharpen so that it would damage anything it hit,use a fluke protector when anchor is stowwed.
Dont waste money hot dip galvanizing,use zinga cold galvanizing coating,grind old coating off anchor apply 2 coats.Will last a long time.Have no connection with company.
Hi Steve, thank you for your comprehensive tests. At the end of the day, what would you suggest for a 32 sail footer of max. 4000 kgs? in yr test you give some information on "pullin" weights : how can this be translated in wind speed ? Thank you again Pierre
I use one of these, basically because of my bow sprit which restricts using a different anchor. I would only use as short scope of 3 to 1 for a lunch stop in benign conditions. Otherwise 5 to 1 all chain. Your findings are useful, I conclude that the Delta is Safe, Adequate and Reliable and I won’t be replacing it. I accept that there are better anchors but the one on my bow roller is good enough.
Also interested are delta inox better? I can see that they have a different construction, looks like a lighter shank therefore a better tip weigh ratio. If I buy the 30kg inox Delta for my 9m (30ft) sailboat I will measure it
Steve, thanks for posting the long awaited Delta video. What you reckon, would it be easy to modify the Delta somehow to improve the performance more? Anything easy to do to make a noticeable improvement to get that performance more close to the NG anchors? As a Delta owner and a thin wallet I'd be keen to know..
Juha, I made some "intuitive" modifications to my Manson Supreme anchor that proved to be completely useless. The point is that anchor design can be very tricky business and I am by no means an expert in that regard. Many anchors were developed by trial and error involving dozens of shapes and adjustments. Some of the developers of the best examples have made anchor design their life's work. Any amateur (like myself) that stumbles upon a better solution should consider themselves lucky or somehow gifted. I fear that modifications that you make to your anchor could very well make the anchor worse. Steve
Just my personal experience with this anchor. When under wind, the anchor seemed to hold fine. However, when swaying side to side... the anchor has a habit of losing it's hold and drags. I actually upgraded to this anchor and its been a complete let down. I'll likely end up with an 'ultra' marine which seems like it's the best for holding power and resetting.
thanks again for your videos! I love the tests.. because it gives me an idea of what's going on down there. I really would love to know what anchor you generally rely on. ... what's your go to anchor?
Thanks, Coast. Rather than give my choice here, without an explanation, I would prefer that you view my "Anchor Compilation" video #56. It will answer your question and more. Cheers, Steve
Been awhile sense you did a test. That's what I have a delta, some time I'm going to get a picture of mine that I made compared to factory one to send to you. If you ever get up here would love for you to test mine. I have a way sharper point on mine I used a hardened welding rod. will have to take a scale down and weigh it some time. Some of your test have a current flowing thru that keeps it clear.
Herb, With all due respect, I believe comparisons between anchors and farm plows are irrelevant. You can prove me wrong by bolting any anchor shape you choose to a large, heavy frame that is supported above the seabed by wheels or skids, and demonstrate that this apparatus will develop more holding power than "plow" shaped anchors. Steve
SV Panope I was misunderstood. I look at your videos as a wealth of knowledge and watch them as soon as they are released. These videos convinced me to switch from my Bruce that had been on the bow for over twenty years by the previous owner and 4 years by me to a Mantus. The point I was trying to make is Delta anchors that look like derivatives of the CQR which is the classic plow anchor. I have heard many stories of CQR anchors "not dragging" but slowly creeping along the sea floor during a storm. Watching the delta anchor slowly inch along the sea floor while under hard throttle made me post my original comment. I was getting at the fact that it looks like a plow and when loaded up, it creeps through the substrate instead of burying itself deeper. This is just like a farm plow (minus all the other equipment they have to plow the fields) where its goal to move through the earth and not to get stuck in it.
Herb, Glad you got useful information from my work. Good choice on switching from Bruce to Mantus. Regarding comparisons to farm plows: If you bolt your Mantus to the frame of a farm plow, it will bury no better than any other shape. Steve
Hello! I know that this is probably an un-answerable question but is there in your mind a “winner” anchor? I have a 45lb Rocna for my 15000lb (dry weight) Allied Seawind 32. I have a friend that just bought a steel Sarca Excel and from watching your videos and from listening to why he bought his Excel, I can’t help but think that it is possibly on top. Your thoughts? Thanks, Parker
I am interested are the Delta inox better? I can see that they have a different construction, looks like a lighter shank therefore a better tip weigh ratio. If I buy the 30kg inox Delta for my 9m (30ft) sailboat I will measure it
@@flygoodwin I am not sure if RUclips removed my today’s comment because it included a link with pictures I have taken anyways… Once again: I have bought 30kg (66lb) INOX Delta and surprisingly discovered that the tip/weight ratio is 40,2% ! I have taken 10 pictures with weight and size measurements and will post it again in a separate comment in case the algorithm deletes it
Compliments for tests, it would be great to try all the anchors with higher engine power and observe their limits, or try with smaller anchors. Stiven from Italy (google translator)
Greetings Stiven, I did test most of the anchors with my high engine power "deep set" test. The easiest way to view these results is to watch my video called "Anchor Test Compilation. Video #56". The 30:25 mark is where I grouped all my "Deep Set" test together. Keep in mind that the maximum thrust of my boat is no where near enough to truly test the best anchor's max holding powers. I have purposely focused on setting and re-setting because there had been little comparative (visual) testing on the subject, unlike max pull testing which has been the focus of dozens of other persons tests. Steve
Great vide thanks. We have been using a 16kg Delta for the last 4 years on a 45’ Sun Odyssey. It has been great so far. We have found that regardless of scope, it needs 30m of 10mm chain deployed to get a good initial set. Once you have that you can shorten chain if you feel like you need to. It has held us in a 60-70kts storm for over 2 hours and then in a sustained blow of 30-40 kts for almost 3 days. After that it was buried so deep, the shank being almost a foot below the surface of the sea bed which is predominantly sand as long as you avoid the Posidonia grass. Resetting through 180 turns has been good, normally within 1-1.5 anchor lengths under normal weather shifts.
Your videos on anchor testing are a fantastic service to the boating community. Thankyou so much ! It helps one make an informed decision rather than just relying on advertising and the personal opinions of yachtsmen which are generally not based on any direct controlled comparisons. Thankyou!
You're welcome, Richard.
Steve
Anchored well 16 years with 16kg delta on 36 feet 8 ton ketch.
Upgraded to a 25kg delta.
It dragged in windshift with mud/plants on first year.
Saw 3 boats over last 2 years with problems with rocna´s. (windhifts, clogged up anchor.)
Still bought a second hand rocna 25 for harder bottoms and very soft mud.
Have not used it yet.
Best is to anchor on 2 anchors if you can. Bahamian moor.
This way you can get by with cheaper options.
Wow! You have THE most thorough anchor videos we have ever seen. Sad to see you haven't posted in a year. We just released a general video about how to choose the right anchor for your sailing style and your boat, but will be referring people to your videos for reviews of specific gear. Thanks for what you do! (Our recent anchor video is here: ruclips.net/video/s38sH_gueew/видео.html )
thank u so much for your great videos u are the best god bless u man great job for all sailors!!
You have the best anchor tests! I would like to see Rocna Vulcan anchor tested!
For my 36ft, 10 metric tons ketch I used for 24 years a 16 kilo Delta with good results.
Instead of going for the Rocna 15 kilo I bought this week a 25 kilo Delta.
This also because of your videos and 2 neighbours with serious Rocna mishaps this year.
With electric anchor winches these days we should all opt for an "oversized" anchor.
Seems the convex shaped anchors reset better because of lack of clogging-up. Thanks a lot.
Can you tell more about the Rocna mishaps?
@@jimp313 Hello Jim,
My first neighbor was on a small 3 ton sloop stationary anchored for
3 months with 15 kg rocna, chain and adequate scope in 2-5 meter
water with soft mud bottom and no plants. Then...he dragged in 30 knots
which was not uncommen wind strength (portugal). He is an experienced
sailor.
Second occurance (different location firm mud/sand) with a 31 foot Hallberg Monsun with 15 kg rocna during a gale with 40+ gusts. He dragged and hit some pilings.
His boat "sailed" alot on his anchor.
I was anchored there and then with 16 kg delta on sufficient scope
with my ketch (contest 36 mk1).
I believe the Rocna is a fine anchor. But I remember the hype when the
Bruce entered the market. Maybe the Vulcan or Spade is best.
A role bar is not so important if the balance is right and it fouls the
anchor too and hampers resetting. As is shown in the videos.
Thus I opted for the 25kg Delta. But wouldn't mind owning a new concave anchor.
( as a stern/kedge anchor I use a Brittany 16kg)
I also still use a 45 CQR sometimes and a Bruce 20, Fisherman Luke 50kg.
When there is room I often anchor "Bahamian Moor" so that the anchors
dont have to reverse pulling direction. The Plough anchors work well that
way. Contrary to current believe I notice them diggig deeper (also CQR)
(In softer bottoms)
Good luck, anchoring is never 100 percent safe.
Thanks for sharing these tests. Outstanding takes!
Hi from Olympia! Thanks for the greatest reviews of anchors ever made! You could market your data, I'm sure. I'm buying a 33lb Rocna based on your videos (west marine has 40% off on anchors and rode - starts this Thursday). It's WAY oversized for my boat, but I'm tired of dragging, also I plan to sell the 28 bayliner I have now and get a sailing boat - as ocean worthy as I can afford, and use the same anchor (hopes). Anyway, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I am just blown away on your detailed analysis of anchors. Especially the impossible camera views and non-bias scope - you are amazing sir! It's really what we all imagine our anchors are doing (or not doing) as we are backing up, "are we stopped?.... well, we were, then we broke lose again! Pull it up, let's try again!" And again, and again, and again. This is my third anchor, and my last, I already feel comfortable about choice due to your videos. Can't wait to test it out. Thanks
Oh, I did have a question, though: why so fast on the sets? Is there a difference when it's 1 knot vs 3.5? Im just thinking about tide change. Which is my biggest concern around the Puget sound.
Thanks, Kass.
My test philosophy is to simulate worst case scenarios. My choices of 2 knots for the initial set and 3.5 knots for my 180 degree reversal tests was arbitrary .
Think of my tests as similar to the automobile tests where they drive a car into a wall.
Steve
I looked on west marine's website and didn't see anything about 40% off anchors, but your comment got me looking for it. I'm in the market for a new anchor and 40% off would be great, these anchors aren't cheap. Where did you see the 40% off?
Brian Tye , I just checked and was corrected. Only certain anchors are one sale, some for 40% some for 20% and some aren't at all. I think the best bet is to just go in and ask. The one I'm going for is only 20%. Please forgive me for the confusion
WELL DONE
Amazing analysis Sir! I would like to know what's the rpm to wind ratio as a general idea. 3300 seems to be a very strong pull for this Delta
Do you think one of these 10kg Delta anchors would work for a 20ft angling boat with only a 25hp outboard motor ? Maybe the reverse power would not dig the anchor in enough to set . Thanks for any suggestions. Great video .
Great work testing all these anchors, I am loving your videos.
Have you ever considered testing one of those folding grapnel anchors? I am really curious how this type of anchor compares to the others. Not expecting it to do fantastically, but maybe it outperforms the Bruce anchor
Great video. It tell the story for sure.
Hi. I am preparing currently to sail the world solo, getting in remote areas and anchor as much as I can. I just changed from a 20Kg Bruce to an20Kg Delta-Anchor. After seeing this, I will change this Anchor and buy something better. Your testing has been by far the best I ever came across. THANK YOU FOR THAT:-) I have a 33Ft Sailboat with about 8Tons and I have rather an oversized Anchor, with 70 Meters of 8mm, regular Chain for the Main Anchor set up. As I have a Bowspriet, I have to find Ideas too, how to mount my 2 Anchors left and right halfway and on the outside of the Bowspriet. What is in your Opinion the best Anchor for me? I will be anchoring about 99% and this will include the 2 dangerous Capes of the World in South America and Africa. Many talk about the Manta Anchor, but the new one has screews in it and I do not trust any Screews with my life. I will face very heavy weather while anchoring too. Thanks for your Opinion.
anchor tip,never use a blunt anchor,if your anchor is blunt sharpen so that it would damage anything it hit,use a fluke protector when anchor is stowwed.
Dont waste money hot dip galvanizing,use zinga cold galvanizing coating,grind old coating off anchor apply 2 coats.Will last a long time.Have no connection with company.
Hi Steve, thank you for your comprehensive tests. At the end of the day, what would you suggest for a 32 sail footer of max. 4000 kgs?
in yr test you give some information on "pullin" weights : how can this be translated in wind speed ?
Thank you again
Pierre
What is the best 25kg to buy from your testing?
Getting a new yacht and don't want to compromise safety.
I use one of these, basically because of my bow sprit which restricts using a different anchor. I would only use as short scope of 3 to 1 for a lunch stop in benign conditions. Otherwise 5 to 1 all chain. Your findings are useful, I conclude that the Delta is Safe, Adequate and Reliable and I won’t be replacing it. I accept that there are better anchors but the one on my bow roller is good enough.
Much better formula is 15m + 2* depth
Also interested are delta inox better? I can see that they have a different construction, looks like a lighter shank therefore a better tip weigh ratio. If I buy the 30kg inox Delta for my 9m (30ft) sailboat I will measure it
Steve, thanks for posting the long awaited Delta video. What you reckon, would it be easy to modify the Delta somehow to improve the performance more? Anything easy to do to make a noticeable improvement to get that performance more close to the NG anchors? As a Delta owner and a thin wallet I'd be keen to know..
Juha,
I made some "intuitive" modifications to my Manson Supreme anchor that proved to be completely useless. The point is that anchor design can be very tricky business and I am by no means an expert in that regard. Many anchors were developed by trial and error involving dozens of shapes and adjustments. Some of the developers of the best examples have made anchor design their life's work. Any amateur (like myself) that stumbles upon a better solution should consider themselves lucky or somehow gifted.
I fear that modifications that you make to your anchor could very well make the anchor worse.
Steve
Just my personal experience with this anchor. When under wind, the anchor seemed to hold fine. However, when swaying side to side... the anchor has a habit of losing it's hold and drags. I actually upgraded to this anchor and its been a complete let down. I'll likely end up with an 'ultra' marine which seems like it's the best for holding power and resetting.
I can report that a 45lb. ULTRA anchor outperformed a 45lb. Delta anchor in the seabeds that I have tested to date.
thanks again for your videos! I love the tests.. because it gives me an idea of what's going on down there. I really would love to know what anchor you generally rely on. ... what's your go to anchor?
Thanks, Coast.
Rather than give my choice here, without an explanation, I would prefer that you view my "Anchor Compilation" video #56. It will answer your question and more.
Cheers,
Steve
oh
perfect! Not sure how I missed that one. thanks!
Been awhile sense you did a test. That's what I have a delta, some time I'm going to get a picture of mine that I made compared to factory one to send to you. If you ever get up here would love for you to test mine. I have a way sharper point on mine I used a hardened welding rod. will have to take a scale down and weigh it some time. Some of your test have a current flowing thru that keeps it clear.
Pack,
Did your modifications produce a meaningful improvement? I'd be very curious to see your changes, if they did.
Steve
plows are supposed to move through soil. it makes sense that a plow design anchor would also creep through the sea floor.
Herb,
With all due respect, I believe comparisons between anchors and farm plows are irrelevant. You can prove me wrong by bolting any anchor shape you choose to a large, heavy frame that is supported above the seabed by wheels or skids, and demonstrate that this apparatus will develop more holding power than "plow" shaped anchors.
Steve
SV Panope
I was misunderstood. I look at your videos as a wealth of knowledge and watch them as soon as they are released. These videos convinced me to switch from my Bruce that had been on the bow for over twenty years by the previous owner and 4 years by me to a Mantus.
The point I was trying to make is Delta anchors that look like derivatives of the CQR which is the classic plow anchor. I have heard many stories of CQR anchors "not dragging" but slowly creeping along the sea floor during a storm.
Watching the delta anchor slowly inch along the sea floor while under hard throttle made me post my original comment.
I was getting at the fact that it looks like a plow and when loaded up, it creeps through the substrate instead of burying itself deeper. This is just like a farm plow (minus all the other equipment they have to plow the fields) where its goal to move through the earth and not to get stuck in it.
Herb,
Glad you got useful information from my work. Good choice on switching from Bruce to Mantus.
Regarding comparisons to farm plows: If you bolt your Mantus to the frame of a farm plow, it will bury no better than any other shape.
Steve
Hello! I know that this is probably an un-answerable question but is there in your mind a “winner” anchor? I have a 45lb Rocna for my 15000lb (dry weight) Allied Seawind 32. I have a friend that just bought a steel Sarca Excel and from watching your videos and from listening to why he bought his Excel, I can’t help but think that it is possibly on top. Your thoughts? Thanks, Parker
I am interested are the Delta inox better? I can see that they have a different construction, looks like a lighter shank therefore a better tip weigh ratio. If I buy the 30kg inox Delta for my 9m (30ft) sailboat I will measure it
I have no experience with an Inox Delta. Please share whatever info you find. Thanks.
@@flygoodwin I am not sure if RUclips removed my today’s comment because it included a link with pictures I have taken anyways…
Once again: I have bought 30kg (66lb) INOX Delta and surprisingly discovered that the tip/weight ratio is 40,2% !
I have taken 10 pictures with weight and size measurements and will post it again in a separate comment in case the algorithm deletes it
@@flygoodwin made a screen recording just so I can share photos of INOX Delta 30kg anchor parameters....
ruclips.net/video/e-918SES3dU/видео.html
Allso would be nice to see Vetus Maxset and Plastimo Kobra anchors tested. Theese look alot like Delta.
How does your camera rigg look like? How do you keep the camera pointed to the right direction?
I wish to keep the details of my camera apparatus private.
Great tests. What do you think about welding wings to the Deltas toe so it would get a downward force when pulling it forward?
I find it very difficult to predict the effects of anchor design changes.
why 180 rotations? why not 50?
Compliments for tests, it would be great to try all the anchors with higher engine power and observe their limits, or try with smaller anchors. Stiven from Italy (google translator)
Greetings Stiven, I did test most of the anchors with my high engine power "deep set" test. The easiest way to view these results is to watch my video called "Anchor Test Compilation. Video #56". The 30:25 mark is where I grouped all my "Deep Set" test together.
Keep in mind that the maximum thrust of my boat is no where near enough to truly test the best anchor's max holding powers.
I have purposely focused on setting and re-setting because there had been little comparative (visual) testing on the subject, unlike max pull testing which has been the focus of dozens of other persons tests.
Steve
How many HP power on your engine? How much boat Weight?thanks.
40 horsepower. 15,000 pounds.
the angel of your line?
What about kobra 2 test?
Can you test lone star anchor 3?
I hate delta anchors never sets