I had the 85 sedan version in two tone Blue over Silver. Very nice looking car. Had a 4 speed although I heard later that the automatic was better for keeping the engine on the turbo. The 3rd headlight was actually fog lights and gave the car a very different look from the other J cars. Did have a few reliability issues but more so issues with Pontiac service techs. Had a boost issue where I was only getting 5 lbs and it ended up being a bad waste gate sensor. Pontiac could not diagnose this issue as they thought it was an issue with the turbo itself and after rebuilding it and replacing it to no avail, I finally figured out it was electrical and when I told them that they found the sensor issue. Only took five times in the shop to get it fixed. Loved the handling but with the manual you had some severe torque steer till you got used to it. Replaced stock shocks and struts with gas charged units and handling improved nicely.
I was a 22 year old Buick salesperson and got the Skyhawk T-Type Turbo in 1983 as a demo car. I loved it. Was the ultimate sleeper when the Corvette was only a bit over 200 hp. Had as much torque steer as the 1986 Saab 9000 my Dad got a few years later.
My first new car I financed was an 89 Sunbird SE with the pop up headlights for a 20-year-old kid it was fun to drive and sporty looking. I got almost 160k miles on it before I parked it. I really loved that car
Jon I owned a 84 sunbird. I put over 300,000 miles on it and sold it. After owning it for 13 years. PS. I now own a 28 year old Dodge Ram which replaced the sunbird. Still own the Dodge. You spoke about having a manual. My Sunbird had a 5 speed. Without having a turbo it was pretty quick.
I like how the center armrest sits on top of the E brake handle at an odd angle when the brake is engaged at 3:37. That back seat doesn't look any less usable than that of a Mustang convertible I rented 15 years ago. The three headlight thing doesn't bother me. It was obviously influenced by the 6000 STE and it reminds me of the Citroen SM from the early 70s. If the Mazda Miata didn't exist, this is a car I would look for today.
I believe that engine is an opal design… A buddy of mine has been looking at putting one in a Chevette. If you were to go to T Body performance here on RUclips, you might be able to get some information from him on this engine. He’s a fan of it. Great episode!
I glanced at a green Sunbird sedan at an adjoining car lot when I test drove the 1992 Buick Century coupe I bought. It was turquoise with black and red all around bumper strip.
I had an 87 with that engine bought it new. It was very good. The only issue I had was if you ran it hard it would go through timing belts quickly. Put about 150k on it and 3 timing belts. Was still running strong when I traded it.
Hey, Jon. They just introduced the 2025 Ford Maverick pickup. The hybrid is once again the base version. You should check that out. Now you can get AWD with the hybrid.
@@AllCarswithJon You are correct about that. I'm still waiting for other car brands to introduce challengers to the Maverick. Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Chevrolet, Honda, Ram? Are you listening?
Jon, I still have my '84 Turbo convertible. It's practically the same car in the video but with the 3-speed auto, and yes, it is without a doubt a fun car. A few points I wanted to make: - The convertible's rear seat is actually quite usable. Looking at the shots Motorweek gave, they seemed to have pushed the front seats all the way back, but these J-cars gave you plenty of room up front so you could push the seats further up. With that, the rear seats were quite nice. The dashboard might be cheap plastic, but if there's one thing GM did right, it was using their 'Pallex' cloth for the upholstery, which was a very soft and durable fabric. - The same point applies to the trunk. Motorweek's shots don't do the trunk justice, because it extends very far into the back. Even with the top down you can still cram a lot things in there. - The central (1/4 circle light) is actually the fog light. Me personally, I like keeping them on since they give the car a unique look. - The acceleration times seem fudged. The 3-speed auto can usually go from 0-60 in about 9 seconds; I'd imagine the manual probably does it in closer to 8, but their shifts were off (which seems to have been a common problem for MW at the time). This might also be why the car 'squirmed'. - I am totally with you on the point that GM was so close to greatness. This turbo engine should absolutely have been an option on the Fiero from the get-go. More importantly, the turbo Sunbird came out in mid-'83, and never received a 5-speed until mid 1987! Until that the only options were 4-speed manual or 3-speed automatic. - The brakes on these cars were another strong suit. With the upgraded suspension package (which both mine and the test car had), they were a pretty dramatic departure from GM's past attempts at FWD, notably the X-car Citation/Phoenix. On the '84 sedan they mentioned, they managed 120 feet with minimal lockup. I can confirm that they've held up pretty well, even in hard rain. As for the engine, the general consensus is that, while they were fun, they were certainly not reliable. Obviously, part of the story is people driving the life out of them without letting them cool or idle down, but certainly a big part of it was the GM quality control. The first generation Turbos, which you can identify with the black-on-silver intake manifold (with TURBO in raised lettering on it as they showed) often leaked coolant, and they used an aluminum intake manifold which was prone to cracking. Pontiac's 'patch' for that was a relay that kept the cooling fan running for 5 extra minutes after the car was shut off, but it usually also broke without people noticing. They were also pushed pretty hard (hence the 155HP / 175 LBF-FT power figures, which outperformed Chrysler's 2.2 and Ford's turbo-4) so headgaskets and compression issues were common if not cooled down properly. The second generation, which had a red-on-silver valve cover and intake manifold, was more reliable thanks to Pontiac using a cast iron head and exhaust manifold, but again, spirited driving without proper maintenance or cooling down lead a lot of them to the junkyard. If you did maintenance on yours, and paid attention to that fan relay, they were strong engines. All in all, if you maintained them yourself, these were very fun to drive cars that gave you good fuel economy. P.S: If you want to see (and maybe react to) the '84 Sunbird sedan they mentioned, there's a reposted version on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/ksqUo2dKacs/видео.html
@@AllCarswithJon It's cool to see someone else with a positive look on these J-bodies! This one was actually also my first car. And yes, the combination of the torque steer and just the way the car feels makes it feel MUCH faster than it actually is. Great video!
Do yourself a favor a have a ride in Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier. Those are Js too, still they somehow nad better BASIC suspension, nicer dashboard and better trim.
Great, Jon. This came out much better. I would love to have this particular Sunbird convertible. The turbo engine was an interesting engine(had the same horsepower as the Quad 4 when it first came out). It probably wasn't as loud as a Quad 4. I'm surprised that the Cavalier convertible never got this engine. This turbo engine would have made the Cimarron a much better car for me.
Nice looking car! My [real] sports car only has cargo nets so those back seats look good! AU got a J-car, "Wheels COTY" Holden Camira. Looked like a tidy little Commodore but they fell apart quickly & I haven't seen one for 20yrs. GMH just cheaped out too much. Cheers Jon.
Great looking car. Even though it has the 77-78 Firebird style nose I actually like the Cavalier style a little better. That said all J cars looked fantastic except the over the top Cadillac. As for inside the dash thought it was one of the best looking of the era. As for performance after this year 5 speed was there. Also the 150hp I believe eventually went to 185HP plus this Convertible is heavier so that said no surprise this one is slower than expected.
Good review as always. I have to say that I'm surprised that you like the cavalier of that era so much but you are certainly entitled to your taste and I would never criticize you for that. I have never really cared for the first generation cavalier from a styling point of view. My opinion might not be a fair one to be honest as I have never driven one and by the time I came to age they were very old cars. The second generation ones even as a person who strongly disliked General motors especially back then I had to admit to myself that it was quite stylish and good looking. The third generation I had mixed feelings about. The sunbird certainly look like an improvement on styling to me. I never spent an extensive amount of time in these cars so I can't comment very much. It appears to be an opel engine made in Brazil. Other than that I can't tell you much.
You and I are the same age, and we grew up in an era when there really was never a proper convergence of engine, transmission, structural integrity(F bodies), interior materials, interior quality, or overall quality at GM. GM just didn't seem to understand the people slightly older than us or us. We could CLEARLY see the excellent quality of the Japanese and some German cars, and that was what we wanted. I bought a Honda Civic Si as the first car I bought with 100% of my own money. If they could've only somehow combined it all at a competitive price GM would still be the dominant manufacturer in the world. Now that they HAVE TO punch hard just to be noticed, they have put out cars and SUV's that ARE good. But, in my opinion, it's too little too late. There is no denying the C8, Blackwing series, V8 Camaros or the Escalades are excellent, but those are outliers in a field of bland products they still produce.
Ahhh, Errr, Emmm.... We could shred the Pontiac Aztec. It started with good intentions as a Beefy, Off Road Capable Chevy Nova type. Waiter, there is a fly in my soup.
Maybe I'll do a VLOG about this as it's a bit of a long story. The very, very short answer is after owning it for a while the overall cheapness of it (interior materials, etc) really wore on me. A bigger issue was it had ABS that was not just bad but unsafe. If it was even lightly damp and on a slope, the brakes would pump and you'd roll into intersections. No lie; more than once I had to pull the emergency brake to stop in a light rain. After one especially egregious incident I decided to sell the car.
I had the 85 sedan version in two tone Blue over Silver. Very nice looking car. Had a 4 speed although I heard later that the automatic was better for keeping the engine on the turbo. The 3rd headlight was actually fog lights and gave the car a very different look from the other J cars. Did have a few reliability issues but more so issues with Pontiac service techs. Had a boost issue where I was only getting 5 lbs and it ended up being a bad waste gate sensor. Pontiac could not diagnose this issue as they thought it was an issue with the turbo itself and after rebuilding it and replacing it to no avail, I finally figured out it was electrical and when I told them that they found the sensor issue. Only took five times in the shop to get it fixed. Loved the handling but with the manual you had some severe torque steer till you got used to it. Replaced stock shocks and struts with gas charged units and handling improved nicely.
I was a 22 year old Buick salesperson and got the Skyhawk T-Type Turbo in 1983 as a demo car. I loved it. Was the ultimate sleeper when the Corvette was only a bit over 200 hp. Had as much torque steer as the 1986 Saab 9000 my Dad got a few years later.
My first new car I financed was an 89 Sunbird SE with the pop up headlights for a 20-year-old kid it was fun to drive and sporty looking. I got almost 160k miles on it before I parked it. I really loved that car
Jon I owned a 84 sunbird. I put over 300,000 miles on it and sold it. After owning it for 13 years.
PS. I now own a 28 year old Dodge Ram which replaced the sunbird. Still own the Dodge.
You spoke about having a manual. My Sunbird had a 5 speed. Without having a turbo it was pretty quick.
I like how the center armrest sits on top of the E brake handle at an odd angle when the brake is engaged at 3:37. That back seat doesn't look any less usable than that of a Mustang convertible I rented 15 years ago. The three headlight thing doesn't bother me. It was obviously influenced by the 6000 STE and it reminds me of the Citroen SM from the early 70s. If the Mazda Miata didn't exist, this is a car I would look for today.
I believe that engine is an opal design… A buddy of mine has been looking at putting one in a Chevette. If you were to go to T Body performance here on RUclips, you might be able to get some information from him on this engine. He’s a fan of it. Great episode!
I glanced at a green Sunbird sedan at an adjoining car lot when I test drove the 1992 Buick Century coupe I bought. It was turquoise with black and red all around bumper strip.
It does look nicer than a lot of other Pontiacs that followed it. That’s a lot of headlights in the front though. There’s more headlight than grille.😂
I had an 87 with that engine bought it new. It was very good. The only issue I had was if you ran it hard it would go through timing belts quickly. Put about 150k on it and 3 timing belts. Was still running strong when I traded it.
Back in 84 I test drove a Sunbird Turbo Convertible. Yes, it had what I thought was blistering acceleration, along with a little turbo lag.
I had both a 1984 and 1987 Cavalier and loved them both,although it was an adjustment going from v8’s to four cylinders😁😁👍👍
Hey, Jon. They just introduced the 2025 Ford Maverick pickup. The hybrid is once again the base version. You should check that out. Now you can get AWD with the hybrid.
Yeah I saw that this morning. The hybrid and AWD is compelling; the increase in price in 4 years is not. :)
@@AllCarswithJon You are correct about that. I'm still waiting for other car brands to introduce challengers to the Maverick. Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Chevrolet, Honda, Ram? Are you listening?
Jon, I still have my '84 Turbo convertible. It's practically the same car in the video but with the 3-speed auto, and yes, it is without a doubt a fun car. A few points I wanted to make:
- The convertible's rear seat is actually quite usable. Looking at the shots Motorweek gave, they seemed to have pushed the front seats all the way back, but these J-cars gave you plenty of room up front so you could push the seats further up. With that, the rear seats were quite nice. The dashboard might be cheap plastic, but if there's one thing GM did right, it was using their 'Pallex' cloth for the upholstery, which was a very soft and durable fabric.
- The same point applies to the trunk. Motorweek's shots don't do the trunk justice, because it extends very far into the back. Even with the top down you can still cram a lot things in there.
- The central (1/4 circle light) is actually the fog light. Me personally, I like keeping them on since they give the car a unique look.
- The acceleration times seem fudged. The 3-speed auto can usually go from 0-60 in about 9 seconds; I'd imagine the manual probably does it in closer to 8, but their shifts were off (which seems to have been a common problem for MW at the time). This might also be why the car 'squirmed'.
- I am totally with you on the point that GM was so close to greatness. This turbo engine should absolutely have been an option on the Fiero from the get-go. More importantly, the turbo Sunbird came out in mid-'83, and never received a 5-speed until mid 1987! Until that the only options were 4-speed manual or 3-speed automatic.
- The brakes on these cars were another strong suit. With the upgraded suspension package (which both mine and the test car had), they were a pretty dramatic departure from GM's past attempts at FWD, notably the X-car Citation/Phoenix. On the '84 sedan they mentioned, they managed 120 feet with minimal lockup. I can confirm that they've held up pretty well, even in hard rain.
As for the engine, the general consensus is that, while they were fun, they were certainly not reliable. Obviously, part of the story is people driving the life out of them without letting them cool or idle down, but certainly a big part of it was the GM quality control. The first generation Turbos, which you can identify with the black-on-silver intake manifold (with TURBO in raised lettering on it as they showed) often leaked coolant, and they used an aluminum intake manifold which was prone to cracking. Pontiac's 'patch' for that was a relay that kept the cooling fan running for 5 extra minutes after the car was shut off, but it usually also broke without people noticing. They were also pushed pretty hard (hence the 155HP / 175 LBF-FT power figures, which outperformed Chrysler's 2.2 and Ford's turbo-4) so headgaskets and compression issues were common if not cooled down properly. The second generation, which had a red-on-silver valve cover and intake manifold, was more reliable thanks to Pontiac using a cast iron head and exhaust manifold, but again, spirited driving without proper maintenance or cooling down lead a lot of them to the junkyard. If you did maintenance on yours, and paid attention to that fan relay, they were strong engines.
All in all, if you maintained them yourself, these were very fun to drive cars that gave you good fuel economy.
P.S: If you want to see (and maybe react to) the '84 Sunbird sedan they mentioned, there's a reposted version on RUclips: ruclips.net/video/ksqUo2dKacs/видео.html
Awesome thanks so much for the comment!!
@@AllCarswithJon It's cool to see someone else with a positive look on these J-bodies! This one was actually also my first car. And yes, the combination of the torque steer and just the way the car feels makes it feel MUCH faster than it actually is. Great video!
Do yourself a favor a have a ride in Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier. Those are Js too, still they somehow nad better BASIC suspension, nicer dashboard and better trim.
@@runoflife87 If I ever have an opportunity I'd love to!
Great, Jon. This came out much better. I would love to have this particular Sunbird convertible. The turbo engine was an interesting engine(had the same horsepower as the Quad 4 when it first came out). It probably wasn't as loud as a Quad 4. I'm surprised that the Cavalier convertible never got this engine. This turbo engine would have made the Cimarron a much better car for me.
Seeing the car helped me follow along better. too.. =)
Nice looking car! My [real] sports car only has cargo nets so those back seats look good! AU got a J-car, "Wheels COTY" Holden Camira. Looked like a tidy little Commodore but they fell apart quickly & I haven't seen one for 20yrs. GMH just cheaped out too much. Cheers Jon.
Little known fact all those pieces of luggage Motorweek used to demonstrate trunk capacity, full of cocaine.
That would explain why they're so heavy!
The slower 0-60 count is probably because of the added weight of the convertible.
Great looking car. Even though it has the 77-78 Firebird style nose I actually like the Cavalier style a little better. That said all J cars looked fantastic except the over the top Cadillac. As for inside the dash thought it was one of the best looking of the era. As for performance after this year 5 speed was there. Also the 150hp I believe eventually went to 185HP plus this Convertible is heavier so that said no surprise this one is slower than expected.
Good review as always. I have to say that I'm surprised that you like the cavalier of that era so much but you are certainly entitled to your taste and I would never criticize you for that. I have never really cared for the first generation cavalier from a styling point of view. My opinion might not be a fair one to be honest as I have never driven one and by the time I came to age they were very old cars. The second generation ones even as a person who strongly disliked General motors especially back then I had to admit to myself that it was quite stylish and good looking. The third generation I had mixed feelings about. The sunbird certainly look like an improvement on styling to me. I never spent an extensive amount of time in these cars so I can't comment very much. It appears to be an opel engine made in Brazil. Other than that I can't tell you much.
This car looks easy to draw
😂
You and I are the same age, and we grew up in an era when there really was never a proper convergence of engine, transmission, structural integrity(F bodies), interior materials, interior quality, or overall quality at GM. GM just didn't seem to understand the people slightly older than us or us. We could CLEARLY see the excellent quality of the Japanese and some German cars, and that was what we wanted. I bought a Honda Civic Si as the first car I bought with 100% of my own money.
If they could've only somehow combined it all at a competitive price GM would still be the dominant manufacturer in the world.
Now that they HAVE TO punch hard just to be noticed, they have put out cars and SUV's that ARE good. But, in my opinion, it's too little too late.
There is no denying the C8, Blackwing series, V8 Camaros or the Escalades are excellent, but those are outliers in a field of bland products they still produce.
Broken wiper fair weather friend lol
How many people bought the Mustang convertible vs the Sunbird convertible despite the ~$2000 difference
Ahhh, Errr, Emmm.... We could shred the Pontiac Aztec.
It started with good intentions as a Beefy, Off Road Capable Chevy Nova type. Waiter, there is a fly in my soup.
So what exactly ruined your opinion on the cavalier? I’m curious about the story behind that.
Maybe I'll do a VLOG about this as it's a bit of a long story. The very, very short answer is after owning it for a while the overall cheapness of it (interior materials, etc) really wore on me. A bigger issue was it had ABS that was not just bad but unsafe. If it was even lightly damp and on a slope, the brakes would pump and you'd roll into intersections. No lie; more than once I had to pull the emergency brake to stop in a light rain. After one especially egregious incident I decided to sell the car.