What Is The Drawback To Solar Pumped Laser/Lensing Boiler Distillation Systems? I Am Relatively Sure That They Could Be Immediately Implemented With An Extremely High Benefit To Cost Ratio Using Currently Existing Technologies. It Solves Both The Pumping And The Desalination Processes Into One Efficient And Inexpensive Solution That Can Be Implemented Anywhere That There Is Sunlight, While Simultaneously Generating Energy Instead Of Requiring It.
I Have Conceptualized Several Systems That Could Be Easily Tested With Minimal Effort And Negligible Expense. All Of The Mathematical Specifications Are Variably Dependent Upon Materials And Scale. It Would Only Take A Few Days With The Right People, Materials, And Equipment To Prove It's Value At Scale.
@@VerifyTheTruth Some toxic materials also evaporate with water, but this can be filtered after you distillate. Maybe there is some affordable process to separate water vapor from other substances while it's still a gas, similar to what is used in petrol refineries.
@@vitordelima Absolutely, Multi-Chamber Heat And Pressure Differentials To The Distillates, Much Like Crude Refineries. The Technologies, Equipment, And Infrastructure Already Exists For Immediate Large Scale Implementation Of Basic Solar Boiler Distillery Desalination. Concentrated Sunlight Can Boil Or Combust Water Instantaneously. With The Right Specifications, Mostly Any Present Chemicals Or Biological Contaminants Can Be Seperated, Concentrated, And/Or Neutralized, As With A Waste Water Treatment System. Permanent Silver Filtration Could Render The Distilled Water Drinkable After Remineralization Or It Could Be Utilized For Recharging Aquifers, Food Production, And Cash Crops. The Pumping Could Operate As A Solar Primed Siphon With Unidirectional Check Valves, Containment Towers, And Drop Points. The Salt Water Can Be Moved Uphill With Head Pressure Through Roman Concrete Or Rarefaction Tempered Quartz Glass Piping To Be Processed Down Line, Or Desalinated On Site And Pipelined Through Steel. The Value Of The Water Would Likely Far Exceed Oil Long-Term In Numberous Areas And Applications. Excess Power Generated By The Solar Boilers, Once The System Is Primed, Can Be Harnessed With Hydraulically Distributed Hydro-Pneumatic Pistons And/Or With Turbines. Apparently The Technology Also Exists To Combust Salt Water. This Is Just One Highly Generalized Solution Out Of Many Combinations Of Existing Tech.
@@sriharshacv7760 seeing as how I work for a company that is implementing graphene in their products, let's just say it's in the weapons industry already
@@nickolaymiltenov the statement was "it can't leave the laboratory" and to be fair, it left the laboratory, like most other new inventions, straight into weapons...
@Александр Лазарев activated carbon already exists for water filtration.. doped graphene is the next step. Even if it can't filter water, it can preferentially intercalate ions which reduces salinity too
honestly I really dont see how they can neatly stacked GO sludge from an exfoliation process. crosslinked epoxy is FKING HUGE so how the fk can you get such tiny spaces between the graphene oxide. im thinking they just compositized the GO with a certain percentage of epoxy which still allows it to be permeable with water then painted/pressed/rolled the resulting mix if it fking works into nice sheets for RO membranes.
@@freddiereadie30 its not their paper literally shows how the membrane looks it FKING SUCKS and isnt practical in the slightest. Their active surface area is in the friggin micrometers and for it to be practical that needs to be in METERS!!
We were in touch with this research team. They have collaborated with a UK based company, LifeSaver to convert this research into a product. Maybe in a few years we can expect it to hit the market.
Graphene is the way of the future. Between graphene, Neutrinovoltaic, and CO2 bio fuel conversion using solar energy and radio waves the world will forever be changed
@@janami-dharmam it can be done now with solar energy and EMF in the radio spectrum. They have all ready built prototypes. They have also figured out a simple way to do it electrochemical using solar energy with the highest reported efficiency. Though the method using radio waves is the cheapest and leaves a zero carbon footprint.
Yea but if it is better enough, it may become viable on large scale. Maximizing the amount of water flowing through the filtration medium while minimizing the required energy is the key.
@@lamebubblesflysohigh it being tuneable may be an advantage but really the amount of energy is is a function of the osmotic pressure + the mechanical losses. The osmotic pressure is unchanged and there is no indication of addressing the mechanical losses. Its like pumping water uphill , correctly sizing the pipe and making it as straight as possible with as smooth walls as possible will minimise mechanical losses but you will never be able to get water up a hill with less energy than the added gravitational potential energy.
@@Ralphgtx280 if you were to put the filtrated water below the salt water, would osmosis come into play? Like, if the graphene sheets were too be put above vats, instead of right next to them?
@@purplepotatoes9255 Good idea, but no, its not enough pressure, and that IS the problem....RO takes very large amounts of pressure to work (which requires ALOT of energy to create this pressure). The mass of water used in RO does not create this high pressure. And let's say we use the entire pressure of a deep ocean.....this would work, but the problem then is how do you get the clean water back up to the surface? This would also use the same amount of large energy. The point is that energy conservation laws apply to all forces, including pressure. You cannot overcome the energy differential with pressure.....the energy to break the bonds is the same either way. This has to do with the profound properties of water itself.....so the same reasons that make water the source of all life, is the same reasons why it is difficult to get clean water. This is also why the earth's ecosystem is very complex in cleaning water. Final conclusion: Humanity cannot overcome the scarcity of energy until it overcomes the entire capitalist system. Only socialism as a path to communism will allow humanity to have a surplus of energy. There literaly is no scarcity of energy in the universe, it is the capitalist system that creates a scarcity and forces humanity to rely on self-destructive toxic fossil fuels for energy. Go humans! Good luck.
The value provided for the salt rejection of salt in conventional RO membranes does not represent the state of the art. For example, DOW Filmtec model SW30HRLE-400i is rated for a minimum of 99.65% (cited from its data sheet). However the video attributes only 90-95% to conventional RO membranes. The authors of the paper cited in the video found the the GO membrane could provide 97% salt rejection, which does not surpass state-of-the-art high rejection membranes. In the Nature paper cited by the video, it seems the authors are more excited about the tunability of the GO membranes which may open up opportunities in other filtration applications.
@@davidmende3409 You should check out other comments. The "lower energy requirements" has been discussed thoroughly and the conclusion seems to be that that is a false. I don't even think the video, or the scientific papers this was based on, claim that the GO membranes have lower energy requirements for filtration.
@@alanwatts8239 why? It's not obvious to me why you would make that conclusion. What are the mechanisms that prevent us from getting use out of either one? What is the difference between the two that creates a difference in their longevity?
Agreed, that stood out to me too. They also do not list the standard solution this rejection is measured on, or explain WHY the energy requirement is lower. Osmotic pressure must still be overcome.
In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.
@@MottyGlix correct - that I know - can you do it here with this material,p? I always knew about (what you said) and to me it was the critical question that first needs to be answered before we can seriously consider this material as a filter.
@Inotamira Orani I have actually been involved in water & waste water treatment. I can tell you the devil is in the detail. What often seems technically obvious often is practically impossible. In summary.... Let's see if someone gets this right.
Mark yep. Generally these filters must be replaced or cleaned. They last for about 24hours of use. They slowly loose efficiency over that period as more and more salt clogs the entry. They are usually cleaned upon reaching 30% efficiency in resoect to thr original non clogged 100%. As I said, this typically occurs after 24hours of use, assuming typical salt concentrations etc...
I love New Inventions like these !! Desalination is the future as more and more population grows and ground water resources won't be enough for all of us. Technologies like these really will help in decreasing the per unit cost of filtering it and making it available for masses.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist Yeah, good luck convincing that to Billions of population around the world. So, it's better to prepare for worst-case scenario when we have the time :)
@@thealienrobotanthropologist ''''''''The future is learning to not have more kids that you can afford to take care of.'''''' wrong the future is using logic and advanced technology to conquer our problems and continuing living life without having to worry about whether we have enough resources
I remember learning that ions dissolve via ion dipole interactions (intermolecular force). Thus there is no sharing of electrons and not a covalent bond. This should be fact checked. (4:06)
It's clearly an error saying the salt-to-water molecules are covalent. As you say, it's an ion-dipole interaction that binds them together. I dont't know about the strength of the bond, but I'm sure it's stronger than water to water molecule one.
It's a bit more complicated then that. When water (or any other ligand) complexes with an ion, there is actually bond formation, It's not just electrostatic interactions. You only learn about the ion-dipole interactions because they are simple physical forces with which we can easily explain and calculate attraction between ions en dipoles. Metal-water coördinated complexes are easily formed however I don't think anion complexes are easily formed. Nitrate, sulfate, chloride - water interactions are mostly ion dipole interactions i think.
I worked in a lab with a need of ultra pure water. Salts were the easy problem to fix. Colloidal silica was the SOB in that world. It has a nasty habit of fouling up deionizing and or filtration media and if it gets through that it fouls up lab machines. I first encountered it when washing windows at my restaurant job 25 years ago when i was in college. The s*** was caked on the window and vinegar wouldn’t touch it. Colloidal silica binds to surfaces and can’t be cleaned off. So the question is: “How does this system react to colloidal silica dispersed in most water?”
@@ix-Xafra yes we do. And different municipal water supplies have different levels. It’s necessary in biology but often rather damaging in industrial settings.
I just got back from the future. Housing developments along the coast are up in arms over the dumping of high concentrates of saline into sewer systems.
5:07 how do we make sure that no water molecules move the other way around. After all, didn't we say that the water molecules move naturally to the side where we have more salt to balance the concentration?
Naturally the molecules want to move to try and equilibrate the pressures. However some water molecules still would but the important thing is that there would be more moving in the desired direction with creates a net movement of water to the clean side.
@@joelpivetta4421 This is a circular argument though, isn't it? Could it be that the graphene has a relatively lower Helmholtz free energy barrier (assuming volume and temperature remain more or less constant in the system) compared to the 'normal' filter? This would still require the same amount of energy in the end, right? Perhaps the energy requirement difference stems from the pace at which desalination should occur? In either case the desalinated state should be about equally entropically unfavourable. It doesn't make sense to me that the difference arises because it takes less energy for the water molecules to be desolvated, as at the other side of the filter this same amount of energy is spent again for resolvation/reforming the hydrogen bonds. Except that the overall reduced energy barrier would accelerate the process. Maybe anti-fouling properties of the graphene membrane also differ from traditional filtration membranes? Blegh my thermodynamics is rusty.
@@yay-cat Good guesses but I don't think that would explain it :). Gravity barely plays a role at the molecular scale. The thermal motion of molecules starts increasingly outweighing gravity as objects get smaller; thermal motion starts to become dominant at around 1 micron. Capillary action could work to the point where the pores are filled, but thereafter the capillary forces would act to keep the water inside so it would cancel out (although it may lower the total energy barriers to be traversed somehow).
One major small problem this video does not address at all. Graphene Oxide is currently like $250 per gram. It is currently way too expensive to even approach replacing reverse osmosis purely to save on power.
It's a great application that has been around for some time, but the one thing people keep getting wrong is the energy of desalination. Current desalination filters are just about as efficient as thermodynamically possible. The energy it takes to remove salt from water is a fixed quantity. Even some researchers have made mistakes, claiming that graphene desalination could lower energy requirements by several orders of magnitude.
It's the pressurization, not the actual osmotic efficiency, that leads to savings. Lower pressure means thinner pipes and weaker pumps, meaning less expensive ones.
I think I see what your seeing. My guess is that the potential energy is being placed into the manufacturing process and these GO membranes have limited use or have to be "recharged" in some way. The swelling must have to do with the energy of the system. OR the video conveniently neglects to mention that the pumping that is attributed to the conventional RO process is also required for GO desalination process.
@@jeremysimmons8864 It's that there's water next to a hydrophile (GO) while there's no water on the other side. You could look at it as a chemical reaction: As long as there's no product (clean water), water will happily permeate due to osmosis (the energy being the potential difference between the right and left side). However, permeation rate should slow down until it reaches equilibrium at which point water has to be removed from the right side, or more "educt" is added to the left. At least that's my best theory that's coherent with physics.
@@S3b1Videos Interesting. I definitely need to read the researchers paper to gain some insight on the chemical aspect. I guess my biggest concern is with how the process is maintained and how much energy is required as compared to the conventional polymer membrane based RO.
That's my question too. Gravity would be more than enough to pull it through and the same pump that pumps water in the tank in the video is the same pump for a vertical tank. Think we're being bamboozled with bullshit by the graphene group...🤣😉👍
Since Graphene is such a wonder material at the nano scale, I wonder what other elements could be tuned in this way to achieve similar seemingly miraculous use cases. Perhaps a room temp superconductor could be made from a common conductive element in a nano-structure... etc.
This is revolutionary. The Australian state governments are not utilising our current desal plants fully because of the very high running cost and recent rain. Droughts are common and can last for up to 7 years in a number of regions. Can't wait for this technology to be commercialised, will definitely buy a small unit for the home.
Thank you so much for teaching me this. I have a question though: do we have a way of handling the brine that is produced from the salt molecules left over on the other side?
This should be more talked about on TV. Instead of showering us with negative news and statistics the media should offer us something positive as this.
@@jokers7890 no, its not capitalism, its the viability of it when it comes to mass producing it. More often than not, research results show great success, but the way it is created makes it pretty unviable/expensive when it comes to making it available to all people
At 4:06 there is a mistake. Salt to water is not a covalent bond. It's an ionic bond which is way weaker than covalent bonds. It is still stronger than the hydrogen bonds between two water molecules though.
Great video, I actually work doing research on graphene oxide, and let me tell you, it is not cheap. Single laminate layers only a few mils in thickness are several thousand dollars and graphene is famously difficult to work with as it sticks to everything making it very very messy. Although it is an amazing structure with so many possibilities.
It would be good for new plants, the cost to retrofit existing plants would probably be prohibitive. Still this is excellent, keep going with the graphite wonders!
Israel has already reduced the cost of traditional RO filtration to a price of about 1 USD per liter, which is less than the cost of bottled drinking water. And Israel's method doesn't rely on experimental filter materials that can't be mass-produced yet.
There are a lot of non-food safe epoxies. Don't forget about that overtime particles of these filters will be breaking down and leaching into the water as well so I am a bit concerned about that. If they can keep it all graphine based, it would be safer since you are just drinking activated charcoal at that point which is perfectly safe.
I don't think you can bypass osmotic pressure this easily, entropy is a hard to beat sonofagun. You'd still need pumps, otherwise this would break the second law of thermodynamics.
The term he used was capillary action, so some way to influence the pressure difference is definately required. Having that action in the filter be its most efficient is about good design and surface area. Entropy also gets its reward in the production of these exotic materials.
A thermal differential, perhaps. Have the salt water in a solar pool, and cool pipes on the other side. Hot water molecules from the saltwater side try to balance the thermal differential, traveling from one side of the filter to the other.
I don't doubt that graphene would require less energy but give us some supporting details. There is also a lack of any mention of the lifespan of graphene filtration. Those details may not be available to you yet but this came off as a commercial for graphene instead of a research-based presentation on the superiority or competitiveness of this material in this application.
I'm interested in how the first law of thermodynamics fits in to the equation. Reverse osmosis requires so much power because it takes that much power to separate the water, not because pump just magically consume energy. The pumps are doing the required work of separating the water. Where is the exchange of energy coming from in the case of GO filtration? If it's not in the filtration process, it must be in the manufacturing process of the GO "filter". The filtration process must, also, must not be a continuous process. I'm genuinely curious about what is being left out of the message. I understand the need to communicate to a lay audience, but I'd hate for physics to be swept under the rug as part of a PR campaign.
I'm wondering if the "magical" function of graphene-based desalination is just that it's a more efficiently designed porous material, in that it's designed at the atomic level for efficiency to pass a greater volume of water given a particular pressure. It's designed to fit this intended purpose from the bottom up. As it's explained in the video, without adding pressure to the system, I'd think it would just be a more efficient gate at drawing water towards the salt. And I thought they got the nature of the relationship between water and graphene backwards... it's not hydrophilic, it's hydrophibic.
The inherent resistance of the membrane, not the separation, is the place where savings are had. Because running pure water through it would still take energy, despite the lack of separation. That's the energy in question here.
This just came into my "feed" today, exactly one year after this video was released. I wonder if any progress was made. My concern about graphene isn't it's properties, but the ability to make graphene on an industrial scale. In theory, it has many potential uses. But in practice, it appears to be a very difficult medium to use in a mechanical device. I think graphene, like fusion, will always be one of those "wonder" concepts that prove more interesting in theory than they do in practice.
Instead of epoxy to hold graphine together due to swelling Could you just make graphine layers closer to compensate for swelling eliminating the epoxy step?
@@thulyblu5486 Exactly, it'd be nice to know a rough estimate. 20%? 2x? 10x? Or is it a technology that the government has been trying to keep secret for years, because it desalinates AND generates electricity? :P (I'm going to guess 20%-80% as the realistic number)
Extract salt 1st for sale or use thru evaporation ponds with solar distill desalination. If steam use a solar pond for inexpensive energy also power wall for storing energy to run at night!
When the water moves thru the GO sheet - let’s say from left to right to follow the graphical representation used here - the salt concentration on the left increases. This raises the negative osmotic pressure on the left and ‘sucks’ the water back from the right (fresh water) side that had just come through to the fresh water side. One way this is stopped is if the spacing between GO sheets acts as a one way valve, only allowing fresh water molecules to travel in one direction, towards the fresh water side. Another way is pressure against the salt water - so again Reverse Osmosis, hopefully with a much lower pressure and energy requirement. A possible third way is to have the salt water in a container with the GO sheets at the bottom. Gravity will pull the fresh water thru. If this water has to fall into a fresh water container there will be no osmotic pressure trying to send the fresh water back into the salt water.
at 5:46 it is claimed 44% of cost comes from electricity, but electricity prices vary wildly depending on location. seems like bad math. where i live electricity is 5.5c/KWh, but i have a buddy that pays 22c/KWh. This is a 4x difference due only to location.
Only issue with Graphene is what to do with the used material because when China did there Air filtration plants (which work great BTW) but even the designer said they can make some jewlery with the graphene but there is still left over material that needs a recycling solution so can be used.
well done video, nicely explained .. but filtration right in your home? that means pipes would supply households with salt water .. salt water corroded pipes and not wanting to invest heavily to get it all fixed was the main reason for closing alcatraz. desalination plants providing drinking water makes more sense
All good and well, but what about de brine thats left behind. no matter what u use, your alway left with brine. you cant dump is back in the sea, that would increase the local salt level and kill the marine life there.
Exactly! This is the most problematic point with desalination. Graphene does nothing to improve the possible ecological disaster that this technology could prove to be.
Properly planned sites should have the output brine mixed with so much seawater that it's non-toxic by the time it leaves the pipe, and we won't drive ocean salinity up over time because that's not how the water cycle works. It's cheapo bottom-dollar sites that would dump high concentrations straight in the ocean that we need to worry about
Excellent technology and graphics. However, the question I have is how does one clean the accumulated salt from the system. Somehow it has to be flushed, and that takes energy.
Osmosis (or reverse osmosis) can be useful but it is not everyting and still takes energy. If you truly have simply water vs water with salt, the reverse osmosis wastes the chlorine that would have been gathered from electrolysis on the salt water _(if you are using energy anyway, as for example a combination of geothermal, solar and hydroelectric)._ That chlorine can be used to kill germs and has other useful properties as a halide _(and can change a pH and so on)._ Then there is sodium which is also useful. Plus you are not dumping a bunch of salt.
So if a graphene lined sphere is lowered into an appropriate salt water depth WILL THERE BE FRESH WATER SEEPING IN? The only ENERGY cost is winching up the sphere with fresh water inside, deep water pressure is free?!
I always have an interesting idea. For the membrane that block the salt ions, if one side has no any water then does it mean net water molecules can pass through the membrane without applying any pressure on the other side. Furthermore, if we put the membrane horizontally and pour the saltwater on it, will the water molecules pass down through the membrane? Any answer is welcomed.
In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.
Am I the only one wondering why the 'obvious' set up for the first tank wasn't mentioned in the first two minutes, which is, - up end the tank and poor in the salt water from the top. It's not using anymore electricity than the method getting the salt water into the tank in the video to start with. Gravity will pull the water through.. Am I missing something?
It takes about 500-1000 psi to push the water through the membrane. Some of this force is required to overcome friction and some is required to push the water molecules away from the salt ions. The second part is going to be required regardless of the type of filter.
Sorry but...a bit of energy has to be used otherwise we could violate the second principle of thermodynamics. My question is where will be used energy with graphene membranes. It was stressed very well about the RO systems but speaking of graphene it says it is a natural process which cannot be as said ...so where will be used energy in the process? My suspect is that they work exactly like RO only more efficient.
What happens to the salts removed? I'm not a fan of California changing the salinity of the ocean, just because they can, and does that change effect the amount of rain in other parts of the country?
Nice, but the problem with the highly concentrated salty remains was not addresses. As long as the process does not have ecologically friendly solution for that it is not really a good solution.
@@halfmv2 you're totally right. If you need a constant filltrated water moving, which it's very commum in phamaceutics industry, you'll probably have a good problem...
he didn't say that no energy was required int he entire process he said that the energy to push the water through the graphene was not required you still need energy to get the water into the plant
I was asking about the energy used for filtration, not the logistics process. As the video said explicitly, the filter is an energy efficient tech, so it still consume energy. I guess the capillary action don't require energy, and the entropy was paid during the manufacturing process of the graphene filter. However, energy should be needed for clearing the salt atom which block the nano-scale entrance of the filter, otherwise the filtration will stop once the prepaid-anti-entropy is used up.
Why in households? Use the tap water and let the water provider do the desalination? Or where in the developped world do you use salt water in your homes directly?!?
Some machines need demineralized water to prevent a buildup of limescale. Also, it's better to water the plants with desalinated water to prevent the salt build up. You can not drink the demi water tho, so provider will provide only one type of water - the potable one.
I used 'passive evaporation' ... pyramid shaped plexiglass atop a ring float with edge vats to catch the freshwater I let several of these act as buoys in a sea lagoon (California) and collected several gallons per day (sunny) I can imagine a 'graphene' blanket or 'fullerenes' built in a nano 3d printer to the perfect 'mole' density (h2o) with aluminum oxide 'supersaturate' so that the electrical plasma could break the dipole and compress the two gasses in a blimp where the hydrogen could provide energy to the drone blades...what do you think? (with an h20 precipitant ...humidity condenser)
Now, the GO filter is a semipermeable membrane, right? Why should it not behave like every other semipermeable membrane, creating osmosis? By intuition, there is a separate problem of conservation of energy, somewhere.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Links to their work - www.nature.com/articles/nnano.2017.21#:~:text=Abstract,of%20common%20salts4%2C6. , science.sciencemag.org/content/343/6172/752
What Is The Drawback To Solar Pumped Laser/Lensing Boiler Distillation Systems? I Am Relatively Sure That They Could Be Immediately Implemented With An Extremely High Benefit To Cost Ratio Using Currently Existing Technologies. It Solves Both The Pumping And The Desalination Processes Into One Efficient And Inexpensive Solution That Can Be Implemented Anywhere That There Is Sunlight, While Simultaneously Generating Energy Instead Of Requiring It.
I Have Conceptualized Several Systems That Could Be Easily Tested With Minimal Effort And Negligible Expense. All Of The Mathematical Specifications Are Variably Dependent Upon Materials And Scale. It Would Only Take A Few Days With The Right People, Materials, And Equipment To Prove It's Value At Scale.
There Are Millions Of People Who Need The Water Right Now, Not By 2025.
@@VerifyTheTruth Some toxic materials also evaporate with water, but this can be filtered after you distillate. Maybe there is some affordable process to separate water vapor from other substances while it's still a gas, similar to what is used in petrol refineries.
@@vitordelima Absolutely, Multi-Chamber Heat And Pressure Differentials To The Distillates, Much Like Crude Refineries. The Technologies, Equipment, And Infrastructure Already Exists For Immediate Large Scale Implementation Of Basic Solar Boiler Distillery Desalination. Concentrated Sunlight Can Boil Or Combust Water Instantaneously. With The Right Specifications, Mostly Any Present Chemicals Or Biological Contaminants Can Be Seperated, Concentrated, And/Or Neutralized, As With A Waste Water Treatment System. Permanent Silver Filtration Could Render The Distilled Water Drinkable After Remineralization Or It Could Be Utilized For Recharging Aquifers, Food Production, And Cash Crops. The Pumping Could Operate As A Solar Primed Siphon With Unidirectional Check Valves, Containment Towers, And Drop Points. The Salt Water Can Be Moved Uphill With Head Pressure Through Roman Concrete Or Rarefaction Tempered Quartz Glass Piping To Be Processed Down Line, Or Desalinated On Site And Pipelined Through Steel. The Value Of The Water Would Likely Far Exceed Oil Long-Term In Numberous Areas And Applications. Excess Power Generated By The Solar Boilers, Once The System Is Primed, Can Be Harnessed With Hydraulically Distributed Hydro-Pneumatic Pistons And/Or With Turbines. Apparently The Technology Also Exists To Combust Salt Water. This Is Just One Highly Generalized Solution Out Of Many Combinations Of Existing Tech.
Graphene can do everything except leave the laboratory.
there are actually graphene products out there right now. You just don't know it contains graphene
@@jasonmorris9330 such as ...
@@sriharshacv7760 seeing as how I work for a company that is implementing graphene in their products, let's just say it's in the weapons industry already
@@jasonmorris9330 But usually we don't use weapon systems in our everyday lives...😁
@@nickolaymiltenov the statement was "it can't leave the laboratory" and to be fair, it left the laboratory, like most other new inventions, straight into weapons...
As a chemist, I really liked you included the coordinated water molecules on dissolved ions. Very nice video by the way!
Same here.. most of the textbooks misses the solvation sphere in their explanation
@Александр Лазарев activated carbon already exists for water filtration.. doped graphene is the next step. Even if it can't filter water, it can preferentially intercalate ions which reduces salinity too
As a non chemist I liked ur comment
as a non kemist, im just excited to use a future low cost graphene water filter to filter a high ppm water source..
@@kousueki7024 chemis
The unqualified use of "miraculous" raises my skepticism hackles.
It's a clever way of saying it's a trade secret.
@@freddiereadie30 OR a "clever" way of overselling the feasibility or advantage of a technology.
honestly I really dont see how they can neatly stacked GO sludge from an exfoliation process.
crosslinked epoxy is FKING HUGE so how the fk can you get such tiny spaces between the graphene oxide.
im thinking they just compositized the GO with a certain percentage of epoxy which still allows it to be permeable with water then painted/pressed/rolled the resulting mix if it fking works into nice sheets for RO membranes.
@@freddiereadie30 its not their paper literally shows how the membrane looks it FKING SUCKS and isnt practical in the slightest.
Their active surface area is in the friggin micrometers and for it to be practical that needs to be in METERS!!
@@unAgorist what about you I could say the same.
"I have a probl"
"graphene"
"but I haven't told you th"
"GRRRAAAAAAPHEEEEENNNE"
graphene : it cures all
😂😂😂😂😂 totally me
And I feel like I got the cure everybody.. Nanotechbology and grapheeeene
😂
It's true. Now if only someone could master the manufacture and shaping of graphene.
Graphene can do everything except leave the laboratory.
The paper is more than 3 years old; the authors focus on the tunable aspect of the gaphene membranes.
what paper?
We were in touch with this research team. They have collaborated with a UK based company, LifeSaver to convert this research into a product. Maybe in a few years we can expect it to hit the market.
Graphene is the way of the future. Between graphene, Neutrinovoltaic, and CO2 bio fuel conversion using solar energy and radio waves the world will forever be changed
@@frankh.3849 We need to have a solution now! CO2 biofuel conversion is carried out by plants and is not the most efficient.
@@janami-dharmam it can be done now with solar energy and EMF in the radio spectrum. They have all ready built prototypes. They have also figured out a simple way to do it electrochemical using solar energy with the highest reported efficiency. Though the method using radio waves is the cheapest and leaves a zero carbon footprint.
you'll still have to pump there will still be osmotic pressure this would just be a better RO membrane ...
Yea but if it is better enough, it may become viable on large scale. Maximizing the amount of water flowing through the filtration medium while minimizing the required energy is the key.
@@lamebubblesflysohigh it being tuneable may be an advantage but really the amount of energy is is a function of the osmotic pressure + the mechanical losses. The osmotic pressure is unchanged and there is no indication of addressing the mechanical losses.
Its like pumping water uphill , correctly sizing the pipe and making it as straight as possible with as smooth walls as possible will minimise mechanical losses but you will never be able to get water up a hill with less energy than the added gravitational potential energy.
@@Ralphgtx280 if you were to put the filtrated water below the salt water, would osmosis come into play? Like, if the graphene sheets were too be put above vats, instead of right next to them?
@@Ralphgtx280 trees think different.
@@purplepotatoes9255 Good idea, but no, its not enough pressure, and that IS the problem....RO takes very large amounts of pressure to work (which requires ALOT of energy to create this pressure). The mass of water used in RO does not create this high pressure. And let's say we use the entire pressure of a deep ocean.....this would work, but the problem then is how do you get the clean water back up to the surface? This would also use the same amount of large energy. The point is that energy conservation laws apply to all forces, including pressure. You cannot overcome the energy differential with pressure.....the energy to break the bonds is the same either way. This has to do with the profound properties of water itself.....so the same reasons that make water the source of all life, is the same reasons why it is difficult to get clean water. This is also why the earth's ecosystem is very complex in cleaning water. Final conclusion: Humanity cannot overcome the scarcity of energy until it overcomes the entire capitalist system. Only socialism as a path to communism will allow humanity to have a surplus of energy. There literaly is no scarcity of energy in the universe, it is the capitalist system that creates a scarcity and forces humanity to rely on self-destructive toxic fossil fuels for energy. Go humans! Good luck.
The value provided for the salt rejection of salt in conventional RO membranes does not represent the state of the art. For example, DOW Filmtec model SW30HRLE-400i is rated for a minimum of 99.65% (cited from its data sheet). However the video attributes only 90-95% to conventional RO membranes. The authors of the paper cited in the video found the the GO membrane could provide 97% salt rejection, which does not surpass state-of-the-art high rejection membranes.
In the Nature paper cited by the video, it seems the authors are more excited about the tunability of the GO membranes which may open up opportunities in other filtration applications.
Donno mate - the drastically lowered energy requirements kinda seem helpful - but maybe thats just me.
I think it is safe to say you would still get more use out of graphene filtration.
@@davidmende3409 You should check out other comments. The "lower energy requirements" has been discussed thoroughly and the conclusion seems to be that that is a false. I don't even think the video, or the scientific papers this was based on, claim that the GO membranes have lower energy requirements for filtration.
@@alanwatts8239 why? It's not obvious to me why you would make that conclusion.
What are the mechanisms that prevent us from getting use out of either one? What is the difference between the two that creates a difference in their longevity?
Agreed, that stood out to me too. They also do not list the standard solution this rejection is measured on, or explain WHY the energy requirement is lower. Osmotic pressure must still be overcome.
Nano engineering is so unbelievably profound. Not many amateurs can tune the really expensive equipment. Yet.
“What is now proved was once only imagined.”
-William Blake
"There's a sucker born every minute."- PT Barnum
@@burnerjack01 no tricks here
no shit
@@burnerjack01 "There's a scientifically illiterate fool born every second." - Me -
I have a simple question: won't the salt clog up the entry point and prevent water going through?
In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.
@@MottyGlix correct - that I know - can you do it here with this material,p? I always knew about (what you said) and to me it was the critical question that first needs to be answered before we can seriously consider this material as a filter.
@Inotamira Orani I have actually been involved in water & waste water treatment. I can tell you the devil is in the detail. What often seems technically obvious often is practically impossible. In summary.... Let's see if someone gets this right.
Mark yep. Generally these filters must be replaced or cleaned. They last for about 24hours of use. They slowly loose efficiency over that period as more and more salt clogs the entry. They are usually cleaned upon reaching 30% efficiency in resoect to thr original non clogged 100%. As I said, this typically occurs after 24hours of use, assuming typical salt concentrations etc...
The video starting at 5:00 explains your question.
I love New Inventions like these !!
Desalination is the future as more and more population grows and ground water resources won't be enough for all of us.
Technologies like these really will help in decreasing the per unit cost of filtering it and making it available for masses.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist Yeah, good luck convincing that to Billions of population around the world. So, it's better to prepare for worst-case scenario when we have the time :)
@@thealienrobotanthropologist I am one of those who will never have children. if it were up to me no one would have it for the next 30 or 40 years.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist ''''''''The future is learning to not have more kids that you can afford to take care of.''''''
wrong
the future is using logic and advanced technology to conquer our problems and continuing living life without having to worry about whether we have enough resources
@@robinsss he is sterile
Populations arent growing except Africa.
I remember learning that ions dissolve via ion dipole interactions (intermolecular force). Thus there is no sharing of electrons and not a covalent bond. This should be fact checked. (4:06)
It's clearly an error saying the salt-to-water molecules are covalent. As you say, it's an ion-dipole interaction that binds them together. I dont't know about the strength of the bond, but I'm sure it's stronger than water to water molecule one.
It's a bit more complicated then that. When water (or any other ligand) complexes with an ion, there is actually bond formation, It's not just electrostatic interactions. You only learn about the ion-dipole interactions because they are simple physical forces with which we can easily explain and calculate attraction between ions en dipoles. Metal-water coördinated complexes are easily formed however I don't think anion complexes are easily formed. Nitrate, sulfate, chloride - water interactions are mostly ion dipole interactions i think.
@@luka7383 This is very informative. Thank you for this response!
Because maybe, you're gonna be the one that saves me
And after all, you're my van der waals
I've been waiting for this to be perfected. It has been aong time coming.
I love the way you explain the concepts.
Thanks!
Thanks
This is the most amazing computer generated voice I have ever heard.
it's computer generated?
@@ChrisTopher-jv6ex Yes. Can't you tell?
How can you tell? 🤔
Sounds real to me.
its real
@@jammapcb yes as I said it is a real computer generated voice
I worked in a lab with a need of ultra pure water. Salts were the easy problem to fix. Colloidal silica was the SOB in that world. It has a nasty habit of fouling up deionizing and or filtration media and if it gets through that it fouls up lab machines. I first encountered it when washing windows at my restaurant job 25 years ago when i was in college. The s*** was caked on the window and vinegar wouldn’t touch it. Colloidal silica binds to surfaces and can’t be cleaned off.
So the question is: “How does this system react to colloidal silica dispersed in most water?”
We need silica for collagen formation, don't we?
@@ix-Xafra yes we do. And different municipal water supplies have different levels. It’s necessary in biology but often rather damaging in industrial settings.
@@joefromravenna is silica abrasive when in colloidal solution?
I just got back from the future. Housing developments along the coast are up in arms over the dumping of high concentrates of saline into sewer systems.
I am a materials engineer. The possibilities of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.
I am not a meterials engineer. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.
@@dosmastrify I am not a troll. The possibility of new materials with new properties is virtually infinite.
@@JC-yb3zb you just won the game
@@dosmastrify I'll be here all week.
But why do molecules go only in one direction through a graphene filter? Does osmose afraid graphen?
5:07 how do we make sure that no water molecules move the other way around. After all, didn't we say that the water molecules move naturally to the side where we have more salt to balance the concentration?
Naturally the molecules want to move to try and equilibrate the pressures. However some water molecules still would but the important thing is that there would be more moving in the desired direction with creates a net movement of water to the clean side.
Gravity maybe? also he said that the water molecules move by capillary action so maybe it’ll work like a straw?
@@joelpivetta4421 This is a circular argument though, isn't it? Could it be that the graphene has a relatively lower Helmholtz free energy barrier (assuming volume and temperature remain more or less constant in the system) compared to the 'normal' filter?
This would still require the same amount of energy in the end, right? Perhaps the energy requirement difference stems from the pace at which desalination should occur? In either case the desalinated state should be about equally entropically unfavourable.
It doesn't make sense to me that the difference arises because it takes less energy for the water molecules to be desolvated, as at the other side of the filter this same amount of energy is spent again for resolvation/reforming the hydrogen bonds. Except that the overall reduced energy barrier would accelerate the process.
Maybe anti-fouling properties of the graphene membrane also differ from traditional filtration membranes?
Blegh my thermodynamics is rusty.
In desal plants, the slatless water is pumped away. Clear water has to be touching the membrane for it to have a chance to migrate to the salty side.
@@yay-cat Good guesses but I don't think that would explain it :).
Gravity barely plays a role at the molecular scale. The thermal motion of molecules starts increasingly outweighing gravity as objects get smaller; thermal motion starts to become dominant at around 1 micron.
Capillary action could work to the point where the pores are filled, but thereafter the capillary forces would act to keep the water inside so it would cancel out (although it may lower the total energy barriers to be traversed somehow).
One of the brilliant videos I've had to watch on this subject. Thanks for it.
Wow wow wow wow.....!!! Just stumbled upon the channel and I love it
Not real until they do the classic cooking show trick of "And here's one I prepared earlier"
Oh wow it's really similar to the process for constraining electron flow in silicon laminate layers. Way cool.
One major small problem this video does not address at all. Graphene Oxide is currently like $250 per gram. It is currently way too expensive to even approach replacing reverse osmosis purely to save on power.
The cost is coming down rapidly.
It's a great application that has been around for some time, but the one thing people keep getting wrong is the energy of desalination. Current desalination filters are just about as efficient as thermodynamically possible. The energy it takes to remove salt from water is a fixed quantity. Even some researchers have made mistakes, claiming that graphene desalination could lower energy requirements by several orders of magnitude.
It's the pressurization, not the actual osmotic efficiency, that leads to savings. Lower pressure means thinner pipes and weaker pumps, meaning less expensive ones.
Sunlight and vapor collection seems to be the most accessible way to desalinate water.
Build it!! I can tell you, I feel and taste the difference in water quality from northern and southern states. This would benefit me a lot
Capillary force is not "passive" as was stated in the video. Every movement requires energy; i.e. a difference in potential energy or concentration.
Passive only means it is a spontaneous process. It doesn't mean there was no energy involved. There is no contradiction there.
I think I see what your seeing. My guess is that the potential energy is being placed into the manufacturing process and these GO membranes have limited use or have to be "recharged" in some way. The swelling must have to do with the energy of the system. OR the video conveniently neglects to mention that the pumping that is attributed to the conventional RO process is also required for GO desalination process.
@@jeremysimmons8864 It's that there's water next to a hydrophile (GO) while there's no water on the other side. You could look at it as a chemical reaction: As long as there's no product (clean water), water will happily permeate due to osmosis (the energy being the potential difference between the right and left side). However, permeation rate should slow down until it reaches equilibrium at which point water has to be removed from the right side, or more "educt" is added to the left. At least that's my best theory that's coherent with physics.
@@S3b1Videos Interesting. I definitely need to read the researchers paper to gain some insight on the chemical aspect. I guess my biggest concern is with how the process is maintained and how much energy is required as compared to the conventional polymer membrane based RO.
It would be good to put link to the paper discussing the new technology. DOI or something connecting discovery to the authors.
Really awesome video.
+
the paper is now linked in a pinned comment
In 1:46, instead of using pump, why not use gravity? So, put the salt water above at higher ground and use gravity as pressure through the membrane?
That's my question too. Gravity would be more than enough to pull it through and the same pump that pumps water in the tank in the video is the same pump for a vertical tank.
Think we're being bamboozled with bullshit by the graphene group...🤣😉👍
Since Graphene is such a wonder material at the nano scale, I wonder what other elements could be tuned in this way to achieve similar seemingly miraculous use cases. Perhaps a room temp superconductor could be made from a common conductive element in a nano-structure... etc.
This is revolutionary.
The Australian state governments are not utilising our current desal plants fully because of the very high running cost and recent rain.
Droughts are common and can last for up to 7 years in a number of regions.
Can't wait for this technology to be commercialised, will definitely buy a small unit for the home.
Thank you so much for teaching me this. I have a question though: do we have a way of handling the brine that is produced from the salt molecules left over on the other side?
Save it for winter, road salt.
This should be more talked about on TV. Instead of showering us with negative news and statistics the media should offer us something positive as this.
A lot of technologies are now being experienced by researchers but the transition lab-industry is still the biggest challenge.
not really.....the problem is capitalism, not research.
@@jokers7890 no, its not capitalism, its the viability of it when it comes to mass producing it. More often than not, research results show great success, but the way it is created makes it pretty unviable/expensive when it comes to making it available to all people
At 4:06 there is a mistake. Salt to water is not a covalent bond. It's an ionic bond which is way weaker than covalent bonds. It is still stronger than the hydrogen bonds between two water molecules though.
Since Salt has no valence electrons in the outer shells for covalent bonds if I remember correctly
Thank you Dr James Tour
Great video, I actually work doing research on graphene oxide, and let me tell you, it is not cheap. Single laminate layers only a few mils in thickness are several thousand dollars and graphene is famously difficult to work with as it sticks to everything making it very very messy. Although it is an amazing structure with so many possibilities.
How toxic is it in this particular application? To us drinking the water I mean.
It would be good for new plants, the cost to retrofit existing plants would probably be prohibitive. Still this is excellent, keep going with the graphite wonders!
Human ingenuity is a beautiful thing!
Graphene stepping in another usage
Im looking forward to this tech's industrial application soon!
wow,,, superb animation,,
Very interesting. Excellent video. Hopefully it is practical.
I live in UAE...for Arab countries this is a welcome technology for its bright future...good animation, thanks for the video
Israel has already reduced the cost of traditional RO filtration to a price of about 1 USD per liter, which is less than the cost of bottled drinking water. And Israel's method doesn't rely on experimental filter materials that can't be mass-produced yet.
This would taking the yachting industry by storm.
There are a lot of non-food safe epoxies. Don't forget about that overtime particles of these filters will be breaking down and leaching into the water as well so I am a bit concerned about that. If they can keep it all graphine based, it would be safer since you are just drinking activated charcoal at that point which is perfectly safe.
I don't think you can bypass osmotic pressure this easily, entropy is a hard to beat sonofagun. You'd still need pumps, otherwise this would break the second law of thermodynamics.
- gravity -
The term he used was capillary action, so some way to influence the pressure difference is definately required. Having that action in the filter be its most efficient is about good design and surface area.
Entropy also gets its reward in the production of these exotic materials.
A thermal differential, perhaps. Have the salt water in a solar pool, and cool pipes on the other side. Hot water molecules from the saltwater side try to balance the thermal differential, traveling from one side of the filter to the other.
I don't doubt that graphene would require less energy but give us some supporting details. There is also a lack of any mention of the lifespan of graphene filtration. Those details may not be available to you yet but this came off as a commercial for graphene instead of a research-based presentation on the superiority or competitiveness of this material in this application.
I'm interested in how the first law of thermodynamics fits in to the equation. Reverse osmosis requires so much power because it takes that much power to separate the water, not because pump just magically consume energy. The pumps are doing the required work of separating the water. Where is the exchange of energy coming from in the case of GO filtration? If it's not in the filtration process, it must be in the manufacturing process of the GO "filter". The filtration process must, also, must not be a continuous process.
I'm genuinely curious about what is being left out of the message. I understand the need to communicate to a lay audience, but I'd hate for physics to be swept under the rug as part of a PR campaign.
Exactly what I was wondering too. I feel like there's a catch here somewhere.
Looks like capillary forces are used to over come osmotic pressure, but yea I'm curious about the numbers, and the practical implementation, as well.
@@fredorpaul but if you want to pull water out of the capillaries, you have to overcome capillary forces as well. There's no free cake
I'm wondering if the "magical" function of graphene-based desalination is just that it's a more efficiently designed porous material, in that it's designed at the atomic level for efficiency to pass a greater volume of water given a particular pressure. It's designed to fit this intended purpose from the bottom up.
As it's explained in the video, without adding pressure to the system, I'd think it would just be a more efficient gate at drawing water towards the salt.
And I thought they got the nature of the relationship between water and graphene backwards... it's not hydrophilic, it's hydrophibic.
The inherent resistance of the membrane, not the separation, is the place where savings are had. Because running pure water through it would still take energy, despite the lack of separation. That's the energy in question here.
Sir please a video on how graphene is manufactured. Both in laborotary and Industry.
That is the problem
This just came into my "feed" today, exactly one year after this video was released. I wonder if any progress was made. My concern about graphene isn't it's properties, but the ability to make graphene on an industrial scale. In theory, it has many potential uses. But in practice, it appears to be a very difficult medium to use in a mechanical device. I think graphene, like fusion, will always be one of those "wonder" concepts that prove more interesting in theory than they do in practice.
Instead of epoxy to hold graphine together due to swelling
Could you just make graphine layers closer to compensate for swelling eliminating the epoxy step?
did you watch the video?
nice explanation
Good impressive innovation. Thanks for the video Sabine !
What is the difference in energy use? Does it need pumping at all, or can it be gravity fed? Can the filter be submerged or would that cause osmosis?
I think they will need pumps. But the amount of pumps or say power will be less.
at 5:30 it just says "higher energy requirement" for RO and "lower energy requirement" for GO
@@thulyblu5486 Exactly, it'd be nice to know a rough estimate. 20%? 2x? 10x? Or is it a technology that the government has been trying to keep secret for years, because it desalinates AND generates electricity? :P (I'm going to guess 20%-80% as the realistic number)
Graphene has a really wonderful properties and promising applications, but the question is when can expect graphene to be mass produced?
Can this technology applied in an industrial scale? I don't see the scenario of sea water delivered to household gadgets for desalination.
Extract salt 1st for sale or use thru evaporation ponds with solar distill desalination. If steam use a solar pond for inexpensive energy also power wall for storing energy to run at night!
When the water moves thru the GO sheet - let’s say from left to right to follow the graphical representation used here - the salt concentration on the left increases.
This raises the negative osmotic pressure on the left and ‘sucks’ the water back from the right (fresh water) side that had just come through to the fresh water side.
One way this is stopped is if the spacing between GO sheets acts as a one way valve, only allowing fresh water molecules to travel in one direction, towards the fresh water side.
Another way is pressure against the salt water - so again Reverse Osmosis, hopefully with a much lower pressure and energy requirement.
A possible third way is to have the salt water in a container with the GO sheets at the bottom. Gravity will pull the fresh water thru. If this water has to fall into a fresh water container there will be no osmotic pressure trying to send the fresh water back into the salt water.
We need this technology ASAP, especially dry semi desert countries like Namibia and Botswana!
at 5:46 it is claimed 44% of cost comes from electricity, but electricity prices vary wildly depending on location. seems like bad math. where i live electricity is 5.5c/KWh, but i have a buddy that pays 22c/KWh. This is a 4x difference due only to location.
Only issue with Graphene is what to do with the used material because when China did there Air filtration plants (which work great BTW) but even the designer said they can make some jewlery with the graphene but there is still left over material that needs a recycling solution so can be used.
The US airforce already has a patent on this.
well done video, nicely explained .. but filtration right in your home? that means pipes would supply households with salt water ..
salt water corroded pipes and not wanting to invest heavily to get it all fixed was the main reason for closing alcatraz.
desalination plants providing drinking water makes more sense
Excellent news and good explanation, cheers!
Pressure? Why not put the water on top? Won't that make sufficient pressure? How much pressure are we talking about?
Desal is top tier important future tech!
Nice video keep up the good videos.
I love this channel.
Thank you for making the video.
Very well animated and informative video 😌
What about cleaning the membranes? As it looks like over time these membranes will also be blocked by salt molecules...
This is a game changer
All good and well, but what about de brine thats left behind. no matter what u use, your alway left with brine. you cant dump is back in the sea, that would increase the local salt level and kill the marine life there.
Exactly! This is the most problematic point with desalination. Graphene does nothing to improve the possible ecological disaster that this technology could prove to be.
Properly planned sites should have the output brine mixed with so much seawater that it's non-toxic by the time it leaves the pipe, and we won't drive ocean salinity up over time because that's not how the water cycle works. It's cheapo bottom-dollar sites that would dump high concentrations straight in the ocean that we need to worry about
sir can you be more frequent in your videos uploads please!
Won’t the salt molecules block the graphene pores over time? And prevent the water molecules from being able to pass the membrane?
Excellent technology and graphics. However, the question I have is how does one clean the accumulated salt from the system. Somehow it has to be flushed, and that takes energy.
Osmosis (or reverse osmosis) can be useful but it is not everyting and still takes energy. If you truly have simply water vs water with salt, the reverse osmosis wastes the chlorine that would have been gathered from electrolysis on the salt water _(if you are using energy anyway, as for example a combination of geothermal, solar and hydroelectric)._ That chlorine can be used to kill germs and has other useful properties as a halide _(and can change a pH and so on)._ Then there is sodium which is also useful. Plus you are not dumping a bunch of salt.
So if a graphene lined sphere is lowered into an appropriate salt water depth WILL THERE BE FRESH WATER SEEPING IN? The only ENERGY cost is winching up the sphere with fresh water inside, deep water pressure is free?!
I always have an interesting idea. For the membrane that block the salt ions, if one side has no any water then does it mean net water molecules can pass through the membrane without applying any pressure on the other side. Furthermore, if we put the membrane horizontally and pour the saltwater on it, will the water molecules pass down through the membrane? Any answer is welcomed.
Do more!!
sounds cool, but what about longevity? will salt molecules clog the membranes?
In many filters, you commonly clean them by running cleaned fluid (here, water) backward through the filter medium and washing away the concentrated captured stuff that you are filtering out.
I think the graphene oxide membrane is so good in removing salt, you have to replace it every 30 seconds otherwise the flow of water will stop.
Yes, in a high capacity plant though, there are many valves/pipes so some of them go through maintenance while others work.
Am I the only one wondering why the 'obvious' set up for the first tank wasn't mentioned in the first two minutes, which is, - up end the tank and poor in the salt water from the top. It's not using anymore electricity than the method getting the salt water into the tank in the video to start with. Gravity will pull the water through..
Am I missing something?
It takes about 500-1000 psi to push the water through the membrane. Some of this force is required to overcome friction and some is required to push the water molecules away from the salt ions. The second part is going to be required regardless of the type of filter.
Won't work without hundreds of feet of water pressure
Finally, a new video... after weeks....
A insane material...hope so that I could work with it later
Sorry but...a bit of energy has to be used otherwise we could violate the second principle of thermodynamics. My question is where will be used energy with graphene membranes. It was stressed very well about the RO systems but speaking of graphene it says it is a natural process which cannot be as said ...so where will be used energy in the process? My suspect is that they work exactly like RO only more efficient.
Maybe they say that the energy comes from the dis level of the water: the salt one is up and then goes down with the graphene filter
What happens to the salts removed? I'm not a fan of California changing the salinity of the ocean, just because they can, and does that change effect the amount of rain in other parts of the country?
you could use natural water mass pressure with simple pumps instead of complex pumps
Nice, but the problem with the highly concentrated salty remains was not addresses. As long as the process does not have ecologically friendly solution for that it is not really a good solution.
But do they still need the pressure? I am not sure I get the point, other than it acting as a better filter. Maybe that is the point.
I don't understand the entropy.
Definitely, the new graphene filtration tech need some energy input for driving the process, right?
Yes
@@halfmv2 you're totally right. If you need a constant filltrated water moving, which it's very commum in phamaceutics industry, you'll probably have a good problem...
he didn't say that no energy was required int he entire process
he said that the energy to push the water through the graphene was not required
you still need energy to get the water into the plant
I was asking about the energy used for filtration, not the logistics process.
As the video said explicitly, the filter is an energy efficient tech, so it still consume energy.
I guess the capillary action don't require energy, and the entropy was paid during the manufacturing process of the graphene filter. However, energy should be needed for clearing the salt atom which block the nano-scale entrance of the filter, otherwise the filtration will stop once the prepaid-anti-entropy is used up.
Why in households? Use the tap water and let the water provider do the desalination? Or where in the developped world do you use salt water in your homes directly?!?
Some machines need demineralized water to prevent a buildup of limescale. Also, it's better to water the plants with desalinated water to prevent the salt build up. You can not drink the demi water tho, so provider will provide only one type of water - the potable one.
But what to do with the separated salt? You can't buried it. Rain will pollute the ground water as salty.
I used 'passive evaporation' ... pyramid shaped plexiglass atop a ring float with edge vats to catch the freshwater
I let several of these act as buoys in a sea lagoon (California) and collected several gallons per day (sunny)
I can imagine a 'graphene' blanket or 'fullerenes' built in a nano 3d printer to the perfect 'mole' density (h2o) with aluminum oxide 'supersaturate' so that the electrical plasma could break the dipole and compress the two gasses in a blimp where the hydrogen could provide energy to the drone blades...what do you think? (with an h20 precipitant ...humidity condenser)
Now, the GO filter is a semipermeable membrane, right?
Why should it not behave like every other semipermeable membrane, creating osmosis?
By intuition, there is a separate problem of conservation of energy, somewhere.
Isn't brine an environmentally undesirable by-product of reverse osmosis? How to deal with it?
I wonder what are the chances of getting GO fragments in the filtered water. Accumulating that in one's organism could be an issue in the long term.