Ep 261 | Jacob 1-4, Come Follow Me 2024 (April 1-7)
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- ➡ Detailed Show Notes: www.ldsscriptureteachings.org...
➡ Timestamps:
(00:00) Jacob is weighed down with anxiety for the welfare of his people. He was commanded by the Lord to deliver his message.
(05:39) The group led by Lehi may have been part of a more extensive society native to the region.
(09:10) Costliness of apparel demonstrated wealth and power in the Nephite culture.
(10:28) Pride begins when we think that we have more than others, assume that we are better, and then persecute those we esteem as less.
(17:17) Jacob teaches antidotes to pride.
(27:47) Immoral behavior has awful consequences, breaking hearts of those we love.
(39:11) The Nephite believers worshipped the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.
(44:41) We are to teach to the understanding of men. Jacob sees "things as they really are."
(49:14) Jacob discusses those that rejected the stone, a sure foundation, which is Christ. He then asks how God will respond to those that have rejected Christ. Will God love me if I mess up? The allegory of the Olive Tree answers this question.
(52:07) The practice of plural marriage in Church history.
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My mom past away when I was 11. Left my dad with 5 kids. Oldest 12 youngest 6. My dad joined the church shortly after. Then met my step mom. He is sealed to both women. My step mom was proxy for my mom's baptism and sealing.
and who would deny him his two great loves?? beautiful story
First time listener. I’ve grown so weary of men being caught up in their own self importance when teaching the scriptures, as if they wrote them.
You two have a fresh, calm approach to the scriptures. Lots of information without the tone of how smart you are, as if you just translated them.
I’m grateful to find you.
Wow that is so kind… I hope we can meet these expectations… I (Mike) am always learning new stuff and super excited about the subject… but the more I learn, the more I realize I have so far to go! The journey keeps going! I appreciate the positivity!
You guys are absolutely amazing I’m so thankful I found you through a recommendation of good friends.
Mike and Bryce this is one of your very best (and there's a lot of your very best) This has been the best explanation about plural marriage I have ever heard, in my 48 years in the church. Thank you for your efforts that you have previously engaged in, your diligent study of the subject, to bring this to us today. Bryce, your testimony of Joseph is powerful. I will stand with you. The Spirit has confirmed that what you both have spoken is true. I wish our Sunday School lessons were more like this.
Oh how beautiful your knowledge and testimony is of Joseph Smith and for your careful and respectful understanding of plural marriage and of Joseph Smith’s. Honourable character. I lam deeply grateful for your precious testimony of Joseph Smith. Your lesson has set me free from earthly confusions and misconceptions. And there is so very much more to learn 🇬🇸Johanna
Nice job brothers, milk and meat, good mix. Thanks, and happy heart felt Easter
Beautiful, thoughtful explanation of polygamy in the early Church. I so needed to hear this. Thank you! ❤
Thanks for sticking through a tough part of the presentation.
Thank you very much for this lesson. I know God loves me and each one of us.
Seriously one of your very best episodes! The spirit is so strong with this one, for me. I learn so much from both of you. Thank you for sharing your lifetime of work, research, study, and your testimonies.
Keep building my wall...indeed I will. Thank you, brothers.
Just found your channel and LOVE it sooo much!
Thank you for being a part of gathering us to Christ! ❤️☀️
Love Jacob... what a sensitive beautiful mam.
I've long been disturbed by the introductions used in the Church... especially GC. Always the resume 1st. Prideful
Excellent podcast, learned more about pride, obedience, and Joseph Smith's personal struggles with plural marriage. I appreciate your commitment to keeping it simple.
Absolutely best teachings on plural marriage and what I've believed for several years now. Thank you!!!❤
Wow, thank you!
Thank you for your powerful testimonies and support of the prophet Joseph Smith, grateful for it.
Love you guys!
Very well done. Elegantly spoken regarding plural marriage. The best discussion about it that I have ever heard in so few of words. Time stamp 52:10-127:28. Also read it as it is presented by following the transcript. I appreciate your sharing additional sources for those who wish to dig deeper. Bravo!
If you lean toward the heartland theory, natives populated the south eastern US before the lehites arrived as well.
What an amazing podcast… You guys have so much that I’ve never even heard. Also, so succinct. I can’t believe I never heard the story of the angel with the sword.
I perhaps have a pessimistic view of polygamy. It doesn’t matter if it offends you or not … if it doesn’t it’s just a matter of time till something comes along the does offend you. You kind of touched on that. Thanks tons. I’m a frequent listener.
Sorry but God doesn't take away our agency, not mine not yours not Joseph's. This is a made up story after Joseph's death.
I echo your testimony of Joseph Smith! Thank you!
I'm back, so much here I had to listen again. Thank you
This explanation of polygamy makes the most sense to me. Thank you.
I feel like I really needed this about plural marriage. My kids and seminary students have questions about this and this further knowledge helped so much! This will be saved in my archives as one of the best that I will gladly refer to. Thanks Matt and Bryce! Wonderful!
Wow what a compliment! Thanks!
I love the Sneetches analogy!
Bryce, thank you for your strong testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Prophecy is being fulfilled every day as his name is had for good and evil among all people.
Concerning plural marriage, Jacob 2:30 says "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things" [having only one wife]. During the time of polygamy, perhaps the purpose was to raise up a righteous seed so the Church could increase in strength and numbers faster. My ancestor, Milo Andrus, had 11 wives and 57 children. His posterity has added greatly to the kingdom, along with others.
How many children could each if those wives had of they were monogamous? Probably more than the average 5 that this man had with his 11 wives. In 1860 Utah there wasn't a abundance of extra women to men. Men were complaining they couldn't find a wife because the leaders of the church were using their :higher priesthood " to convince the women and girls to marry them.
Except that Joseph Smith didn’t have any children from his other “wives”…. And the people who needed to raise up seed the most, were NOT polygamous (Adam, Noah, Lehi - if anyone needed to populate a nation, they did!)
You assume that “raise up seed“ means quantity. I would suggest it means quality as well.
I believe Jacob, it is abomination!
Gwendolyn Wyne does an excellent job explaining why it is always an abomination. Joseph did not do this thing.
I like the brick analogy
So so so good!!!!!
Thank you for this episode.
Especially needed the part on polygamy.
Thank you. This was truly a sweet answer to my prayers ❤
Always great show, but if you're going to talk about mesoamerica it falls apart at Cumorah. Only one Cumorah, in NY.
I (Mike) see both sides of the argument. Wayne May’s ideas are powerful. He posits a setting in the Ohio area (among other N America locations). Joseph Allen (Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon) addresses your argument. So does John Sorenson. I lean one direction, but I wasn’t there and I do not know. So I do see both sides to this issue, even though in this podcast I know I probably sound one sided. Bryce takes a position that it was N America. Thanks for listening!
Sometimes ppl speak as if they have more, or drop names, etc, not b/c they think they’re better, but b/c they’re insecure & think they need to prove they’re really good enough in other’s eyes. Whatever the reason, I guess any comparison is a form of pride … ? B/c It’s caring abt what others think instead of what God thinks … and can influence our behaviors and actions… ?
But the solution is the same … see & point out the good in them & they will begin to see it too and stop feeling insecure…?
I'm going to steal that line: "I'm a member in spite of polygamy."
I can see that plural marriage needs to be available. My friend Amy became the 2nd wife following the death of the 1st wife. She raised the 3 children of the first wife and then had 2 of her own. Her husband gets to have both his wives in the celestial kingdom. My aunt, Shirley was sealed to her 1st husband but was left a very young widow and mother. Shirley then married Max who raised her children. They were married for 65 years. She made her children promise to seal her to Max following her death, which they did. Under current Doctrine/policy Shirley will have to choose between her 2 husbands in the Celestial kingdom. The scriptures say that God is no respecter of persons. So, if that's true, how can He give more privileges (the blessing to have more than one spouse in certain circumstances)to his sons than to his daughters? This doesn't "taste" right to me, as you like to say. Hopefully, more equitable revelation will be forthcoming.
There is more revelation on it. The Joseph Smith papers have revealed MUCH. Check out an enemy has done this with Gwendolyn Wyne or book of Mormon review did a great episode on it. If you want loads of documents and physical evidence, try 132 problems with polygamy. All of those channels are run by very active latter day saints who love the Gospel and are embracing truth. You don't have to agree with everything they say.... Just give it a shot 😊😊😊😊
These are the hard situations that try our faith.
I have a "faith closet" for situations like this. Through many tests of my faith and other trials, I have come to really know that I can have confidence in the Lord. I have faith in Jesus Christ. I know Him and trust Him. Therefore, some things I choose to put in my "Faith Closet" and know at some point, in this life or in the next, I WILL understand and be able to pull those tests of faith out of my "Faith Closet". The most important things to me are standing true to Jesus Christ and having the light of the Holy Ghost and that how I came up with my Faith Closet. At some point I know the closet will be empty when I have full light, knowledge and understanding.
It’s not plural marriage when you remarry after your spouse dies
One man one woman unless God says otherwise thou shall not kill unless God says thou shall udderly destroy
This is a false equivalency. There was never a time when God commanded multiple wives. Not one single scripture. The angel with the drawn sword account was never shared by Joseph Smith. The entire account is suspect.
To argue polygamy was commanded to produce seed and then realize Joseph never had a child from any of the alleged plural wives leads one to conclude there is something wrong with the claim.
Also, read all of Jacob 2. It makes no sense to read that as a polygamy loophole.
That is simply NOT true. Several were commanded.
“God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife” (D&C 132:34)
“as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation” (D&C 132:37).
Even this one implies a commandment:
“David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife” (D&C 132:39).
@@talkingscripture D&C 132 is suspect and not a valid source. And Sarah giving her slave is more of a surrogate situation then it is a polygamist situation. Do you think what Abraham did looked anything at all like what Brigham Young practiced?
Also, another dissimilarity is the fact that Joseph Smith has no children from the polygamist wives. What Joseph also looks nothing like what Brigham Young practiced.
Now you have lost all credibility with me. (Bryce. I’m not speaking for Mike). Not only does section 132 discuss plural marriage, but the first 20 or so versus are the best explanation of the law of eternal marriage you’ll ever find. If you dismiss section 132, you dismissed that as well. And according to section 2, which I don’t even know if you think is credible, if you dismiss eternal marriage, you make this entire earth a waste.
@@talkingscripture it’s sad that you are making personal judgments and attacks instead of making an effort to understand a different perspective. I love 99.999% of your content. I have been inspired by your temple symbols series. I religiously listen to your Come Follow Me podcasts. I love the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I revere Joseph Smith as a prophet and a good and honorable man.
Having said all of those things, I do question Brigham Young and SOME of his motivations. I don’t see this as a problem. The Church has officially disavowed more than one of his doctrines. Blood atonement and Adam God are a couple of his teachings that readily come to mind.
So, why can’t I question the veracity of D&C 132? It was not published by Joseph Smith. Its source and authenticity are questionable. When it was added to the D&C there was another section (I think it was 88 or 90 but can’t remember exactly right now) that was removed that was explicitly anti-polygamy.
Additionally,’we have a public discourse by Hyrum Smith shortly before his death where he publicly speaks out against polygamy and he uses Jacob 2 as an example that God does not approve of polygamy. There is evidence that the saints during Joseph’s lifetime did not interpret Jacob 2 as a polygamy loophole. I don’t interpret it that way either. It doesn’t make sense if read as a loophole unless you read that one verse alone, out of context.
I won’t harbor negative feelings against you because of this. I do love and respect what you are doing overall. However, I do hope you will be more sensitive and less demeaning in your tone during these kinds of interactions in the future.
“We have to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves”
We're you saying at the beginning of your podcast that there were many nations of people in the land where Lehi landed?
The first word in my question is "were"
Yes. The general assumption that most members make is that the Americas were empty when Lehi arrived. The Book of Mormon does not support that. There is considerable evidence that there were lots of people in the Americas at the time.
I love you guys. Love your content. However, I believe you have this topic of plural marriage wrong. As a matter of fact, that interpretation of Jacob 2 which you repeated is totally flawed.
Reading Jacob 2 as a polygamy loophole is quite problematic. It only takes a little bit of digging deeper to see that there is no loophole intended by the language in Jacob.
There are many other issues with the prevailing narrative and I was hoping you would address this topic a little more thoughtfully than you did.
Yes, everyone should look up the "a proposed reinterpretation of Jacob 2:30" by one climbs. He breaks it down well. That should get people to at least ponder it more.
What time do i take anders
My daughter she has no children 😢
There is no such thing as space without entanglement
Entanglement is monogamous from our frame of reference
Entanglement is polygamous in the context of the celestial doorway, namely Sagittarius A star
Plural marriage is an eternal principle
Cry if you want to
My money is on Joseph Smith