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Well, if he truly is a disposable construct, then it confirms that Hanako was trying to gain V as another guard dog for Arasaka's arsenal. After all, killing the previous guy is the ultimate job/slave interview performance.
Holy shit, you just might be right. Id say thats why they wanted johnny as well. Ive said something similar myself, cause if i owned arasoka, id want V and Johnny, and a version thats both, if possible. Never considered that smasher might be an immortal construct. Explains a lot.
@@GrimFowlerThis is kind’ve why I believe in the Coma ending of PL where V apparently was in a Coma for 2 years, that he probably wasn’t actually in a coma and they were really turning him into a slave/agent like So Mi rather than genuinely saving V.
He might have gotten soulkilled and got an engram ready in Arasaka's secret mikoshi. I don't believe we seen the last of Smasher. Arasaka will want revenge in a 5th corporate war.
Being he is their weapon a lot is possible, although now it depends on future lore, tbh I don't want to see Smasher back unless Blackhand is there, and maybe leave him gone even then.
@@LastKnownMeal Agreed LKM. I think Blackhand will be in Orion. The codename Orion seems like a huge hint he might be very important in Orion. I think Karl Urban or Henry Cavill could play Blackhand. 😁😋
Idk because most endings revolve around raiding the tower, with acceptation of like 3-4 endings, and those tower ones end with alt taking the engrams with her along with Johnny or V, but i mean any thing is possible since we don't know which one is the cannon ending.
This is definitely a theory that can be difficult to prove or disprove, despite it being floated around for awhile now. I believe the most interesting points here are that Smasher claimed David Martinez would make an interesting construct and that Cybergenerations, despite being retconned material, previously supported the idea of repeatedly cloning Engrams. Albeit at the cost of each new clone being worse than the previous. Smasher has always been a Psychopath and thereby Cyberpsycho. Despite this, you can note how much he has changed throughout time. He used to have more "human" aspects, such as maintaining his combat unit, swapping to Elvis bodies, attending social events, etc. Not to mention if he IS an engram, this would allow him to hop between conversions quicker while still having his host body. That way the process of moving internal organs is entirely skipped. As for the nuke, if Blackhand survived I don't see why Smasher couldn't unless he got extremely unlucky.
He is called their number one asset. We know backups of engrams can exist. He may have died but a good chance we could see him again. As long as Arasaka is alive I believe he is too.
what if Smasher made a body double for himself so while the world would be distracted by him the real Smasher would move across the globe assembling a private PMC and building his legend
So we have potentially a copy of Adam Smasher potentially fighting a copy of Johnny Silverhand. Reality itself in Cyberpunk is having a sequel unoriginality issue.
His ego was bigger than Johnny's. Him acknowledging that he is not a real person but an engram, would mean that Arasaka created a loyal, obedient and lets not forget functional cyberpsycho, knowing from the get go what he was. I mean it's not like "Hey we have a tool who can kill us all, why not create him again from the scratch?" He was always like that, just a hired merc and a glorified bodyguard. Now the question is why and how could Arasaka create someone like that since psychopaths don't give a shit about anybody but themselves? The scene in The Heist, where he "knows" that someone is behind a pillar but doesn't react? Weird. They all tend to live abnormally long lives, Adam just chose to live his life like he didn't give a damn about petty human things and ended up being a useful pet and failed in the end without anyone to "resurrect" him again. Finding a "suitable" candidate to fill Adam's shoes would be astronomical. Also using a kill switch on him would be pretty useless because if he went rogue, that would just prove that they aren't in control of anything not to mention Smasher. Some life that would be, huh? Also there is Alt with her cyber personality that says Johnny's memories are a jumbled mess and he remembers things how he wanted them to be, not how they went.
@Omega31716 David did think he was special and even then, he was, I mean did you see how much chrome he was packing? Only until he added the skeleton, he started became psycho. He is built different but nothing like the goat V.
V is def the goat. But we’re def not watching the same show if you thought David didn’t think he was special. He spent the last few episodes basically telling everyone “I’m built different” (and everyone else thinking so)and getting his shit wrecked right after.
Wasnt there a theory floating around that the brain cancer was what was belaying the cyberpsychosis? Considering it revives you a second time if you let the vodoo boys scam you.
@@pochewilson Don't forget he never attacked adam smasher (he did but like once or twice) because he was in cyber psychosis for like a bit of the episode so the fight wasn't really fair on david's part
In the side quest in Watson where you save a monk, if you do it without killing anybody, when you meet the monk brothers again in Japantown, they'd tell you that they can recognize a construct as something with soul. It's been a long time since I've had that dialogue so I can't remember exactly but it's something like that. My point is, the Adam Smasher that we fight in the game is more like a construct of the original, then I'd still consider him pretty much the same thing.
I stealthed that whole mission and only did non lethal takedowns just for him to lecture me about killing 💀. I guess I gotta throw on the pax next time
@@yourbarber6732so did I but got the thank you for not killing anyone. Hmm strange.. are you absolutely certain that you didn't accidentally click the kill button to one of them? Then again some people have had that same problem. Pax didn't work for me, only the unlethal takedowns did
@@yourbarber6732I had the same thing, I reloaded and realised I was killing one of the guys by accidentally jumping on him when he was knocked out
First time hearing about the biopod system, which gives me some ideas... Mr Blue Eyes tells V in the Sun ending that he and "his people" (NightCorp) swooped in and recovered a lot of Arasaka's tech and data. Now I'm guessing that Smasher's body and biopod were a major priority, since MBE seemingly wants to find a way for rogue AI to enter realspace by finding bodies for them, from what all the evidence points to anyway. Phantom Liberty seems to all-but confirm this with dialogue from Cerberus and the weapons you can make after killing him. Alt straight-up tells you this as well in some very rare dialogue, saying the only reason it hasn't happened yet is hardware limitations. Sandra Dorsetts's files about NightCorp testing/cloning human DNA on the moon are likely another way to try making themselves a body. We can see even at full damage that his brain and spine is still in-tact, and that the biopod is holding. Recovering Smasher's biopod would probably fast-track this for them significantly, especially if V/Johnny spare him (unlikely).
this would be like in dark souls 1 when you learn Ornstein isn't the original Ornstein, just takes away the punch and how climactic the fight is without adding very much in trade
I suppose what's unclear is whether Smasher's absurdly high tolerance for cyberware and resistance to psychosis is a consequence of his biological physiology or his mental psychology, and if an engram copy can carry these characteristics or if they'd need a brain like Smasher's. Though perhaps even if such a brain is desired, Biotechnica could have a solution.
The stand out for me is in 2077 we kill him with a headshot. FBC frames can have the biopod in the head, but if you're talking about a pure combat rig the size of smasher, there's going to be a lot more room to ad armour, support systems , and relic style backups (the chip we have is the prototype that's ready for mass market, possibly earlier iterations where much bulkier) in the torso. So to me even if we did fight the "real" Smasher, I don't think we ever killed the real one...
They introduced the “engram” concept with Johnny, why not having one of Adam’s? Hell, how could you know the one you suspect was blown away was the real adam?
And he looked like Elvis while he was dating *******. I really like this theory. Also remember the protoype relic was designed to be used on a dead body. So even if it is an engram in another body, it's still Smasher. Also who says that can't just be copying multiple engrams from one "master"?
I think R. Tal maybe had second thoughts about letting CDPR perma flat line Adam, since the game also showed that the characters were super popular. As for why Arasaka might have basically cloned Adam's mind, because he's an obedient soldier who is willing to do anything asked of him... and he's good at it. Someone who can survive full borg is rare, someone who can survive it, and is both as violent and effective as Adam... basically one in a million. It's a cool theory, the door is certainly open for other stories. Fun fact I did something similar with Johnny in a Red game. Johnny appeared at the end of the story (which was about Lazarus getting a copy of Soul Killer and using it to build an army of copies of a similar sociopath to Adam smasher out of bodies collected from the street.) Johnny survived Soul Killer. He was brain damaged and it took him a while to recover. Spider and Santiago were the only ones who knew he was alive. Johnny spent 20 years in retirement, he never reached out to Rogue because he thought he'd just wreck her life again, and didn't reach out tk his old band because one that's the obvious move and 2 they were all moving on anyways. So he crawled into a bottle in Mexico city. My team found him, because they needed help, and Johnny got back in the saddle again. After the OP (a huge fight at Lazarus HQ in Night City, he went back underground. But this time he was able to leave his demons in the rubble.
that's badass. cyberpunk red actually has some very weird lore implications in that last story, "Black Dog", which is still canon in 2077 since that's how the song got out and there's a photo of the Cyber6 crew in the Afterlife in the game. If you extrapolate that last-paragraph twist hard enough and remember all the original material about what Alt wanted to use Soulkiller for in the first place (immortality through implanting an engram of yourself in a series of cloned bodies), you get to some interesting conclusions. Even though there's an Alt past the Blackwall and there's a Johnny in V's head, there's also an Alt engram inside a cloned human body of Alt, going by "Angel" (one of Alt's old handles/nicknames) in Los Alamos New Mexico, and she's got Johnny's frozen body. "Alt is gone" in that the main branch of Alt has already left and gone back into a new body by 2045. If she had the ability to produce a clone of herself and implant an engram, she has the ability to make a new clone of Johnny. If she got Johnny's engram sometime between 2045 and 2077, they might already be back together living a happy, quiet life in an old government lab. If she didn't get Johnny's engram by then... Where's Johnny going in that Temperance ending?
The only way for the real Smasher to be the one in 2077 is if his first biopod was as rad-shielded as they get in the 2040s, which is doubtful. Actual 2020s era Sheol Borgs (who are supposed to be the most resistant to radiation) couldn't have survived at ground zero of a nuke, let alone Smasher in a regular biopod. I actually doubt a 2040s biopod in a Sheol with extra shielding could do that. 😅
My understanding of the Smasher/Arasaka team up was due to Morgan Blackhand being on contract with Militech. Backhand has been his rival since he was 90% organic.
Well, there are definetely medications and technologies to prolong brain life and activity, especially if you have money for it. Also, it was not so much time, adam would be old, but not tat old.
I think an important bit is the "Devil" ending in Cyberpunk, where as V basically looses his soul, because while he is still alive, he is now an experiment for Arasaka. I think this mirrors Smasher, who by being rebuild into a Cyborg, has lost his autonomy. Therefor he chooses to spare David of that same fate, because he has too much respect for him. Because Smasher knows how his life is basically just being a puppet of Arasaka, which fits the theme of the game, being how big cooperations controll everything, even the freedom of their workers. One aspect of that would be, that even if Smasher were to suffer fatal injuries, he would get made into an engram and get uploaded in a different body, that has a similar cyborg-situation going on, just having enough of the original body left to be able to upload Smasher. What I find interresting, does that mean that V may come back in a Sequel as a fighter for Arasaka, as an enemy to the player character? Or perhaps Jackie may come back, although just as a shell, which would be heartbreaking to discover.
cyberpunk red actually has some very weird lore implications in that last story, "Black Dog", which is still canon in 2077 since that's how the song got out and there's a photo of the Cyber6 crew in the Afterlife in the game. If you extrapolate that last-paragraph twist hard enough and remember all the original material about what Alt wanted to use Soulkiller for in the first place (immortality through implanting an engram of yourself in a series of cloned bodies), you get to some interesting conclusions. Even though there's an Alt past the Blackwall and there's a Johnny in V's head, there's also an Alt engram inside a cloned human body of Alt, going by "Angel" (one of Alt's old handles/nicknames) in Los Alamos New Mexico, and she's got Johnny's frozen body. "Alt is gone" in that the main branch of Alt has already left and gone back into a new body by 2045. If she had the ability to produce a clone of herself and implant an engram, she has the ability to make a new clone of Johnny. If she got Johnny's engram sometime between 2045 and 2077, they might already be back together living a happy, quiet life in an old government lab. If she didn't get Johnny's engram by then... Where's Johnny going in that Temperance ending?
I dont really know how to think about this. On one hand, if Adam Smasher can just come back whenever, it makes us killing him at the end of them seem pointless. However, it would be cool to actually explain why his boss battle was easy, it was just some copy or engramed borg. Maybe in a future game, if this is all canon, we could see the real him and find out just how powerful he realy is.
I think it would make sense that Arasaka would have backed up Smasher’s engram just in case given he’s their top merc. But from a writing standpoint it would be kinda lame to make him virtually unkillable. Kinda like how Palpatine just comes back. And I also find the likelihood of V sparing his life not being very high. I think it would be best for the story that he remains dead after the events underneath Arasaka tower in 2077.
Imagine playing a character who's personality was being taken over by Adam Smasher. I get it's a simular plot point to John, but imagine the insanity of having Adam Smasher in your head. Imagine literally trying to wrestle for control, or him getting *really* happy when you get cyberware or cause mayhem. I feel like if you got too much Cyberware, he would just take over and go back to Arasaka. It could be an interesting idea.
I don't think Smasher was transferred using an Engram, because that would mean V is no longer the first one to have done it. After all, the conversation between Yorinobu and Hellman in the Plaza heist clearly shows that the Relic as a method of Engram transfer is untested up until that point, so the Engram / Relic theory for Smasher is out. That doesn't mean his brain, or innards couldn't be transferred though, I mean if he survived a Nuclear blast, he'd probably need a new body anyways.
4:02 no, not any body. It's the best if your engram is put in the body of a close relative. Closer the better as with Saburo and Yorinobu. If it's random body this will most likely not work, unless it's mech body like smasher's maybe then it doesn't make any difference
I think it's almost guaranteed Smasher is a construct with multiple copies. There's a famous logistics issue in the lore re: how Smasher can be simultaneously fighting Morgan Blackhand on the roof in an ACPA while also killing Johnny and fighting Shaitan and the others on the midlevel in a NovelTech Samson body. The ACPA is a powered armor that needs to be piloted by an Alpha-Class borg body that takes hours to prepare and put on. A NovelTech Samson is not an Alpha-class borg. He's not jacking out his Biopod, putting it in a new body, putting that new body into a huge power armor suit, and then taking a service elevator to the roof in 20 minutes. You could say "they didn't consider this" but... Mike Pondsmith totally would have considered this. Considering stuff like that is like his whole thing. He did months of research into the logistics of nuclear attacks, radioactive material dispersion, air blasts vs ground blasts, how long it would take to recover etc for the Time of the Red/2045 setting. The Occam's Razor here isn't "They didn't consider the logistics" but instead "The logistics require Adam Smasher to be a Soulkilled construct."
Man, now that you say it, I didn't even think about the possibility of multiple copies of him fighting different people, I mean after 2077 came out, having Johnny version of the story I thought okay, rebranded lore whatever, although we do find out its only Johnny's interpretation of events, but now that you say it, if that is ever confirmed it would be wild. And yeah, too much research goes into this, a simple writing mistake like this, no way could happen without something they planned in the back. If we ever fight Smasher in the sequel, then we will know for sure haha.
@@LastKnownMeal johnny's interpretation of events is skewed, but according to canon lore from the Cyberpunk Red core rulebook, both of these fights did still happen at roughly the same time. the main difference is that after Johnny gets shot the first time, that's it, his body is pretty much cut in half and he's rapidly bleeding out. He never actually gets Soulkilled by Saburo. Spider Murphy jams a Soulkiller chip into his head as he's dying in a last-ditch effort to save him. How Arasaka ends up in possession of this engram in the end is a real mystery.
so maybe he's just like Johnny a program on a chip they installed into someone. Or he's just a Cyberbrain now. so a program or just his brain, program fits with the video game's theme.
They introduced the “engram” concept with Johnny, why not having one of Adam’s? They looked like he was “in bed” with Arasaka not impossible to me they wanted to keep him around.
They were rivals, complete opposite, plus they worked for rival corps so at that time on the roof, yeah, they were pretty much fighting it out, if that's what you are asking
@@LastKnownMeal Fair, but there's no indication that Smasher wasn't on that roof for the express purpose of grabbing Johnny. He would have gotten there somehow, and would have had an escape plan for carrying his prize off the roof again. The time delay between the assault and the nuke going off wasn't THAT short either. There was enough time to transport Johnny away safely before it went off, which is more than enough time for Smasher to make his escape.
Really interesting video, I also have been wondering about Smasher, what was his childhood like etc. His early life arc is bit of a mystery to me. And what is he thinking if anything when he sees V and Jackie in that closet when Saburo talks to Yori. Why doesn't he react? Does he know that Yori plans to kill his dad and thinks V and Jackie as good scapegoats? Or why isnt he doing anything? Or is it just a forgotten error by the game makers and not intentional?
I really doubt smasher would stay anywhere near the nuke, maybe, he escaped from there with Johnny, and took him with arasaka. We might not have seen smasher on the flashback, but maybe he was near Arasaka when he copied Johnny's mind
The answer is no. He is a construct just like Saburo Arasaka and Johnny Silverhand. They can snatch different bodies just like Saburo Arasaka was going to take his son's body.
This doesn’t make sense. If arasaka could just train new Adam smashers (either new soldiers or using engrams, they would have done so on a large scale.
I don’t get why people are upset we got options I play both who fucking cares they aren’t gonna get rid of fpp. play what you wanna play. 2 different gameplays. Honestly don’t really care about pro league really don’t think it fits there. Doesn’t mean it should be removed tho
Not necessarily because of the bio chip v is able to have tons of cyberware with no consequences and if you think about it because of Johnny theoretically speaking v would have the fighting knowledge of both himself and Johnny at the same time improving his fighting capabilities even more
@@YeastMaister Johnny wasn't particularly good at fighting, he just had really, really expensive and powerful guns thanks to Eran Malour being his buddy
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😅😅😊
Well, if he truly is a disposable construct, then it confirms that Hanako was trying to gain V as another guard dog for Arasaka's arsenal. After all, killing the previous guy is the ultimate job/slave interview performance.
Holy shit, you just might be right. Id say thats why they wanted johnny as well.
Ive said something similar myself, cause if i owned arasoka, id want V and Johnny, and a version thats both, if possible.
Never considered that smasher might be an immortal construct. Explains a lot.
You didn't play the hanako ending did you?
@@GrimFowlerThis is kind’ve why I believe in the Coma ending of PL where V apparently was in a Coma for 2 years, that he probably wasn’t actually in a coma and they were really turning him into a slave/agent like So Mi rather than genuinely saving V.
He might have gotten soulkilled and got an engram ready in Arasaka's secret mikoshi. I don't believe we seen the last of Smasher. Arasaka will want revenge in a 5th corporate war.
Being he is their weapon a lot is possible, although now it depends on future lore, tbh I don't want to see Smasher back unless Blackhand is there, and maybe leave him gone even then.
@@LastKnownMeal Agreed LKM. I think Blackhand will be in Orion. The codename Orion seems like a huge hint he might be very important in Orion. I think Karl Urban or Henry Cavill could play Blackhand. 😁😋
Additionally how much more metal can Adam get than to be in a microprocessor relic. No more 96% chrome/4%meat.
All chrome. So in character for him
he transfers his body as full joytoy Elvis for michiko arasaka's 18th birthday. So it is possible. They had a thing.
Idk because most endings revolve around raiding the tower, with acceptation of like 3-4 endings, and those tower ones end with alt taking the engrams with her along with Johnny or V, but i mean any thing is possible since we don't know which one is the cannon ending.
This is definitely a theory that can be difficult to prove or disprove, despite it being floated around for awhile now. I believe the most interesting points here are that Smasher claimed David Martinez would make an interesting construct and that Cybergenerations, despite being retconned material, previously supported the idea of repeatedly cloning Engrams. Albeit at the cost of each new clone being worse than the previous.
Smasher has always been a Psychopath and thereby Cyberpsycho. Despite this, you can note how much he has changed throughout time. He used to have more "human" aspects, such as maintaining his combat unit, swapping to Elvis bodies, attending social events, etc. Not to mention if he IS an engram, this would allow him to hop between conversions quicker while still having his host body. That way the process of moving internal organs is entirely skipped. As for the nuke, if Blackhand survived I don't see why Smasher couldn't unless he got extremely unlucky.
He is called their number one asset. We know backups of engrams can exist. He may have died but a good chance we could see him again. As long as Arasaka is alive I believe he is too.
that would mean that there can be multiple of him
@@mo-s-Isn’t it glorious?
what if Smasher made a body double for himself so while the world would be distracted by him the real Smasher would move across the globe assembling a private PMC and building his legend
Jack?! Is that you?! ... No...
Punished Venom Smasher 💀
AND NO ONE HEARS A WORD
THEY SAY
HAS THE MEMORY GONE
I AM FEELING NUMB
You & I thought the same exact thing lol. You were ten days earlier.@@KraTu7
So we have potentially a copy of Adam Smasher potentially fighting a copy of Johnny Silverhand. Reality itself in Cyberpunk is having a sequel unoriginality issue.
2024: Every movie is a remake
2077: Everyone is a remake
His ego was bigger than Johnny's. Him acknowledging that he is not a real person but an engram, would mean that Arasaka created a loyal, obedient and lets not forget functional cyberpsycho, knowing from the get go what he was. I mean it's not like "Hey we have a tool who can kill us all, why not create him again from the scratch?" He was always like that, just a hired merc and a glorified bodyguard. Now the question is why and how could Arasaka create someone like that since psychopaths don't give a shit about anybody but themselves? The scene in The Heist, where he "knows" that someone is behind a pillar but doesn't react? Weird.
They all tend to live abnormally long lives, Adam just chose to live his life like he didn't give a damn about petty human things and ended up being a useful pet and failed in the end without anyone to "resurrect" him again. Finding a "suitable" candidate to fill Adam's shoes would be astronomical. Also using a kill switch on him would be pretty useless because if he went rogue, that would just prove that they aren't in control of anything not to mention Smasher. Some life that would be, huh?
Also there is Alt with her cyber personality that says Johnny's memories are a jumbled mess and he remembers things how he wanted them to be, not how they went.
The pillar has been disapproven.
@@jairesemccoy9779when and why?
People will do anything to not accept that Rebecca and David were just fodder that together cant do what V can solo while also dying of brain cancer.
David thought he was special, V became a revenant and was actually special.
@Omega31716 David did think he was special and even then, he was, I mean did you see how much chrome he was packing? Only until he added the skeleton, he started became psycho. He is built different but nothing like the goat V.
V is def the goat. But we’re def not watching the same show if you thought David didn’t think he was special. He spent the last few episodes basically telling everyone “I’m built different” (and everyone else thinking so)and getting his shit wrecked right after.
Wasnt there a theory floating around that the brain cancer was what was belaying the cyberpsychosis? Considering it revives you a second time if you let the vodoo boys scam you.
@@pochewilson Don't forget he never attacked adam smasher (he did but like once or twice) because he was in cyber psychosis for like a bit of the episode so the fight wasn't really fair on david's part
In the side quest in Watson where you save a monk, if you do it without killing anybody, when you meet the monk brothers again in Japantown, they'd tell you that they can recognize a construct as something with soul. It's been a long time since I've had that dialogue so I can't remember exactly but it's something like that. My point is, the Adam Smasher that we fight in the game is more like a construct of the original, then I'd still consider him pretty much the same thing.
I stealthed that whole mission and only did non lethal takedowns just for him to lecture me about killing 💀. I guess I gotta throw on the pax next time
@@beige_projection Lol i was talking about the monk brother
@@yourbarber6732so did I but got the thank you for not killing anyone. Hmm strange.. are you absolutely certain that you didn't accidentally click the kill button to one of them? Then again some people have had that same problem. Pax didn't work for me, only the unlethal takedowns did
@@yourbarber6732I had the same thing, I reloaded and realised I was killing one of the guys by accidentally jumping on him when he was knocked out
@@ArgoEchelon probably did do that by accident. I'll finally be able to see for sure soon, starting a new playthrough after fully remaking my mod list
Arasaka has a smasher factory, if he breaks they just build a new one, he has an engram backup for sure.
First time hearing about the biopod system, which gives me some ideas...
Mr Blue Eyes tells V in the Sun ending that he and "his people" (NightCorp) swooped in and recovered a lot of Arasaka's tech and data. Now I'm guessing that Smasher's body and biopod were a major priority, since MBE seemingly wants to find a way for rogue AI to enter realspace by finding bodies for them, from what all the evidence points to anyway. Phantom Liberty seems to all-but confirm this with dialogue from Cerberus and the weapons you can make after killing him. Alt straight-up tells you this as well in some very rare dialogue, saying the only reason it hasn't happened yet is hardware limitations. Sandra Dorsetts's files about NightCorp testing/cloning human DNA on the moon are likely another way to try making themselves a body.
We can see even at full damage that his brain and spine is still in-tact, and that the biopod is holding. Recovering Smasher's biopod would probably fast-track this for them significantly, especially if V/Johnny spare him (unlikely).
Wow
Im betting on this
The Star ending is leaving with the nomads. You're thinking of The Sun.
@ thank you you’re right, I got them mixed up. Fixed now
Construct or not, Smasher is essentially just a demon that Arasaka has control over- either as a digital monster, or as the fist of the emperor.
this would be like in dark souls 1 when you learn Ornstein isn't the original Ornstein, just takes away the punch and how climactic the fight is without adding very much in trade
I suppose what's unclear is whether Smasher's absurdly high tolerance for cyberware and resistance to psychosis is a consequence of his biological physiology or his mental psychology, and if an engram copy can carry these characteristics or if they'd need a brain like Smasher's. Though perhaps even if such a brain is desired, Biotechnica could have a solution.
The stand out for me is in 2077 we kill him with a headshot. FBC frames can have the biopod in the head, but if you're talking about a pure combat rig the size of smasher, there's going to be a lot more room to ad armour, support systems , and relic style backups (the chip we have is the prototype that's ready for mass market, possibly earlier iterations where much bulkier) in the torso. So to me even if we did fight the "real" Smasher, I don't think we ever killed the real one...
2:28 looks like we a got a Venom Snake situation here.
i think Smasher was actually the proto engram before Johnny, so he dies and they make another cyborg with engram, adds to his myth
Ive always assumed smasher did the equivalent of double sleeving in altered carbon and had multiple copies of himself in different bodies
They introduced the “engram” concept with Johnny, why not having one of Adam’s? Hell, how could you know the one you suspect was blown away was the real adam?
And he looked like Elvis while he was dating *******. I really like this theory. Also remember the protoype relic was designed to be used on a dead body. So even if it is an engram in another body, it's still Smasher. Also who says that can't just be copying multiple engrams from one "master"?
I think R. Tal maybe had second thoughts about letting CDPR perma flat line Adam, since the game also showed that the characters were super popular.
As for why Arasaka might have basically cloned Adam's mind, because he's an obedient soldier who is willing to do anything asked of him... and he's good at it. Someone who can survive full borg is rare, someone who can survive it, and is both as violent and effective as Adam... basically one in a million.
It's a cool theory, the door is certainly open for other stories.
Fun fact I did something similar with Johnny in a Red game. Johnny appeared at the end of the story (which was about Lazarus getting a copy of Soul Killer and using it to build an army of copies of a similar sociopath to Adam smasher out of bodies collected from the street.)
Johnny survived Soul Killer. He was brain damaged and it took him a while to recover. Spider and Santiago were the only ones who knew he was alive.
Johnny spent 20 years in retirement, he never reached out to Rogue because he thought he'd just wreck her life again, and didn't reach out tk his old band because one that's the obvious move and 2 they were all moving on anyways.
So he crawled into a bottle in Mexico city.
My team found him, because they needed help, and Johnny got back in the saddle again. After the OP (a huge fight at Lazarus HQ in Night City, he went back underground. But this time he was able to leave his demons in the rubble.
that's badass. cyberpunk red actually has some very weird lore implications in that last story, "Black Dog", which is still canon in 2077 since that's how the song got out and there's a photo of the Cyber6 crew in the Afterlife in the game. If you extrapolate that last-paragraph twist hard enough and remember all the original material about what Alt wanted to use Soulkiller for in the first place (immortality through implanting an engram of yourself in a series of cloned bodies), you get to some interesting conclusions.
Even though there's an Alt past the Blackwall and there's a Johnny in V's head, there's also an Alt engram inside a cloned human body of Alt, going by "Angel" (one of Alt's old handles/nicknames) in Los Alamos New Mexico, and she's got Johnny's frozen body. "Alt is gone" in that the main branch of Alt has already left and gone back into a new body by 2045. If she had the ability to produce a clone of herself and implant an engram, she has the ability to make a new clone of Johnny. If she got Johnny's engram sometime between 2045 and 2077, they might already be back together living a happy, quiet life in an old government lab. If she didn't get Johnny's engram by then... Where's Johnny going in that Temperance ending?
The only way for the real Smasher to be the one in 2077 is if his first biopod was as rad-shielded as they get in the 2040s, which is doubtful. Actual 2020s era Sheol Borgs (who are supposed to be the most resistant to radiation) couldn't have survived at ground zero of a nuke, let alone Smasher in a regular biopod. I actually doubt a 2040s biopod in a Sheol with extra shielding could do that. 😅
My understanding of the Smasher/Arasaka team up was due to Morgan Blackhand being on contract with Militech. Backhand has been his rival since he was 90% organic.
Brains age like the rest of the body. No way that's Adam's original one.
Well, there are definetely medications and technologies to prolong brain life and activity, especially if you have money for it. Also, it was not so much time, adam would be old, but not tat old.
@@KT-in3wb by the time he fights v smasher is almost 80 years old
I think an important bit is the "Devil" ending in Cyberpunk, where as V basically looses his soul, because while he is still alive, he is now an experiment for Arasaka.
I think this mirrors Smasher, who by being rebuild into a Cyborg, has lost his autonomy.
Therefor he chooses to spare David of that same fate, because he has too much respect for him.
Because Smasher knows how his life is basically just being a puppet of Arasaka, which fits the theme of the game, being how big cooperations controll everything, even the freedom of their workers.
One aspect of that would be, that even if Smasher were to suffer fatal injuries, he would get made into an engram and get uploaded in a different body, that has a similar cyborg-situation going on, just having enough of the original body left to be able to upload Smasher.
What I find interresting, does that mean that V may come back in a Sequel as a fighter for Arasaka, as an enemy to the player character?
Or perhaps Jackie may come back, although just as a shell, which would be heartbreaking to discover.
i hadn't heard this theory before so this was really interesting
cyberpunk red actually has some very weird lore implications in that last story, "Black Dog", which is still canon in 2077 since that's how the song got out and there's a photo of the Cyber6 crew in the Afterlife in the game. If you extrapolate that last-paragraph twist hard enough and remember all the original material about what Alt wanted to use Soulkiller for in the first place (immortality through implanting an engram of yourself in a series of cloned bodies), you get to some interesting conclusions.
Even though there's an Alt past the Blackwall and there's a Johnny in V's head, there's also an Alt engram inside a cloned human body of Alt, going by "Angel" (one of Alt's old handles/nicknames) in Los Alamos New Mexico, and she's got Johnny's frozen body. "Alt is gone" in that the main branch of Alt has already left and gone back into a new body by 2045. If she had the ability to produce a clone of herself and implant an engram, she has the ability to make a new clone of Johnny. If she got Johnny's engram sometime between 2045 and 2077, they might already be back together living a happy, quiet life in an old government lab. If she didn't get Johnny's engram by then... Where's Johnny going in that Temperance ending?
I dont really know how to think about this. On one hand, if Adam Smasher can just come back whenever, it makes us killing him at the end of them seem pointless. However, it would be cool to actually explain why his boss battle was easy, it was just some copy or engramed borg. Maybe in a future game, if this is all canon, we could see the real him and find out just how powerful he realy is.
Great theory comrade!
Imagine the next game one of the missions is us stoping Arasaka from making or remaking Adam Smasher
I think it would make sense that Arasaka would have backed up Smasher’s engram just in case given he’s their top merc. But from a writing standpoint it would be kinda lame to make him virtually unkillable. Kinda like how Palpatine just comes back. And I also find the likelihood of V sparing his life not being very high. I think it would be best for the story that he remains dead after the events underneath Arasaka tower in 2077.
Imagine playing a character who's personality was being taken over by Adam Smasher. I get it's a simular plot point to John, but imagine the insanity of having Adam Smasher in your head. Imagine literally trying to wrestle for control, or him getting *really* happy when you get cyberware or cause mayhem. I feel like if you got too much Cyberware, he would just take over and go back to Arasaka. It could be an interesting idea.
I don't think Smasher was transferred using an Engram, because that would mean V is no longer the first one to have done it. After all, the conversation between Yorinobu and Hellman in the Plaza heist clearly shows that the Relic as a method of Engram transfer is untested up until that point, so the Engram / Relic theory for Smasher is out. That doesn't mean his brain, or innards couldn't be transferred though, I mean if he survived a Nuclear blast, he'd probably need a new body anyways.
so your telling me V can kill Adam solo but A FUCKING NUKE DOESNT 100% KILL HIM seem hella sus
After the Elvis comment on my head I just see a cartoon of Adam Smasher flirting with a disinterested Rebecca Black like Johnny Bravo.
I never understood how mikoshi gets hacked by A.I but he still active as well as other arasaka soldiers
Imagine if they had an army of Adam smashers lol that would be scary
4:02 no, not any body. It's the best if your engram is put in the body of a close relative. Closer the better as with Saburo and Yorinobu. If it's random body this will most likely not work, unless it's mech body like smasher's maybe then it doesn't make any difference
I think it's almost guaranteed Smasher is a construct with multiple copies. There's a famous logistics issue in the lore re: how Smasher can be simultaneously fighting Morgan Blackhand on the roof in an ACPA while also killing Johnny and fighting Shaitan and the others on the midlevel in a NovelTech Samson body. The ACPA is a powered armor that needs to be piloted by an Alpha-Class borg body that takes hours to prepare and put on. A NovelTech Samson is not an Alpha-class borg. He's not jacking out his Biopod, putting it in a new body, putting that new body into a huge power armor suit, and then taking a service elevator to the roof in 20 minutes.
You could say "they didn't consider this" but... Mike Pondsmith totally would have considered this. Considering stuff like that is like his whole thing. He did months of research into the logistics of nuclear attacks, radioactive material dispersion, air blasts vs ground blasts, how long it would take to recover etc for the Time of the Red/2045 setting. The Occam's Razor here isn't "They didn't consider the logistics" but instead "The logistics require Adam Smasher to be a Soulkilled construct."
Man, now that you say it, I didn't even think about the possibility of multiple copies of him fighting different people, I mean after 2077 came out, having Johnny version of the story I thought okay, rebranded lore whatever, although we do find out its only Johnny's interpretation of events, but now that you say it, if that is ever confirmed it would be wild.
And yeah, too much research goes into this, a simple writing mistake like this, no way could happen without something they planned in the back. If we ever fight Smasher in the sequel, then we will know for sure haha.
@@LastKnownMeal johnny's interpretation of events is skewed, but according to canon lore from the Cyberpunk Red core rulebook, both of these fights did still happen at roughly the same time. the main difference is that after Johnny gets shot the first time, that's it, his body is pretty much cut in half and he's rapidly bleeding out. He never actually gets Soulkilled by Saburo. Spider Murphy jams a Soulkiller chip into his head as he's dying in a last-ditch effort to save him. How Arasaka ends up in possession of this engram in the end is a real mystery.
getting some real Venom Snake vibe here
Now can't shift that pre corp Adam Smasher was a Cyber-Psychobilly!
bro basically got metal gear solid v treatment 😭🙏
so maybe he's just like Johnny a program on a chip they installed into someone. Or he's just a Cyberbrain now. so a program or just his brain, program fits with the video game's theme.
They introduced the “engram” concept with Johnny, why not having one of Adam’s? They looked like he was “in bed” with Arasaka not impossible to me they wanted to keep him around.
Considering he's 97 borg 3% human in 2077 he survived.
He’s just the borg ship of Theseus
Finally more lore videos, whatever happend to the PL ending videos?
I didn't like it in the end so writing new one and going to package video differently to cover more lore
I always thought the Smasher we fought was a construct, especially the nerfed version at launch.
Was Adam was trying to killed blackhand?
They were rivals, complete opposite, plus they worked for rival corps so at that time on the roof, yeah, they were pretty much fighting it out, if that's what you are asking
Dumb question: Why wasn't Smasher just picked up off the roof with Johnny by Arasaka before the nuke went off?
It was during assault, and they didn't know that nuke will go off, in that moment destruction was instant
@@LastKnownMeal Fair, but there's no indication that Smasher wasn't on that roof for the express purpose of grabbing Johnny. He would have gotten there somehow, and would have had an escape plan for carrying his prize off the roof again.
The time delay between the assault and the nuke going off wasn't THAT short either. There was enough time to transport Johnny away safely before it went off, which is more than enough time for Smasher to make his escape.
Thanks choom! Adam Smasher is a cool character that reminds me of Darth Vader in a way.
More like general grievous
Really interesting video, I also have been wondering about Smasher, what was his childhood like etc. His early life arc is bit of a mystery to me. And what is he thinking if anything when he sees V and Jackie in that closet when Saburo talks to Yori. Why doesn't he react? Does he know that Yori plans to kill his dad and thinks V and Jackie as good scapegoats? Or why isnt he doing anything? Or is it just a forgotten error by the game makers and not intentional?
is it actually confirmed that Adam saw them?
I really doubt smasher would stay anywhere near the nuke, maybe, he escaped from there with Johnny, and took him with arasaka. We might not have seen smasher on the flashback, but maybe he was near Arasaka when he copied Johnny's mind
No it's described in the lore books he was right there when it exploded.
Makes no sense, they don't know how to making living engrams until V.
Who said that real smasher is still alive?
LOVE LORE VIDEOS
Did we even leave kenpeki tower alive? What if the fall had V comatose and none of the events afterwards are real?
"The dream of the dog" is a pretty shitty trop
Adam is only 3% human so he has got to be in his 90s if you cont v battle with him and the other 2 battle with Dave and silver hand
The answer is no. He is a construct just like Saburo Arasaka and Johnny Silverhand. They can snatch different bodies just like Saburo Arasaka was going to take his son's body.
Think about David in Edgerunners. Smasher said David would make a great construct and not engram.
arasaka could have saved him in a soul chip also and installed him in a new body
Why does young Adam Smasher look like friggin Jesse Eisenberg? lol
Definitely should look like Adam Sandler tho
Im adam smasher and you are too
Just like V and Johnny's situation. It is prolly still Smasher's head and brain.
This doesn’t make sense. If arasaka could just train new Adam smashers (either new soldiers or using engrams, they would have done so on a large scale.
I don’t get why people are upset we got options I play both who fucking cares they aren’t gonna get rid of fpp. play what you wanna play. 2 different gameplays. Honestly don’t really care about pro league really don’t think it fits there. Doesn’t mean it should be removed tho
в этом видео крутая сочная картинка . наверно трассировка лучей + hdr ?
It has Pure LUT mod and better texture mods, thats pretty much it, if thats what you are asking, no hdr but LUT has a bit more contrast.
He's an Adam Smasher knock off. The real Adam Smasher would have given V a much harder time.
According to the devs that's factually wrong.
Not necessarily because of the bio chip v is able to have tons of cyberware with no consequences and if you think about it because of Johnny theoretically speaking v would have the fighting knowledge of both himself and Johnny at the same time improving his fighting capabilities even more
@@YeastMaister Johnny wasn't particularly good at fighting, he just had really, really expensive and powerful guns thanks to Eran Malour being his buddy