This war of mine is a solo game. The box says 1-6 but it means you just take turns taking the same decisions you would’ve had to take in solo, absolutely no gameplay difference
I didn't even care what the subject was because having the two of you on the same screen makes my day! Definitely agree on Sprawlopolis, Dice Throne, Massive Darkness, and Santorini. For Unlock, I have only played them at four players and always had a good time. Brass Birmingham I have only played at 2-players so I am excited to try it with more.
2 of my very favourites in board gaming youtube sat together......covering a really obscure but genuinely helpful and interesting topic. Thanks for this.
The unlock pick reminded me of something: Sherlock Holmes Consulting detective. I think it is good solo, but 2 is even better - just having the chance to bounce ideas of each other is great. And there is usually enough material that two players can read two different clues (one takes the story book, the other takes the newspaper articles). As soon as you have a 3rd player, you just pass material around the entire time, the 3rd player doesn't make it faster or easier, since whenever anybody is checking anything that means one of the players is just doing nothing, waiting for papers to get passed to them. Now guess the official player count... ..... ..... 1 - 8 !!!!! I think up to 4 players you are supposed to all cooperate and then above that the rulebook tells you to split into 2 teams both solving the same mystery and compare who does it in less steps, which is an absurd way to play the game - not only are half of the players waiting for materials so they can look at anything, you can't even discuss stuff out loud, since you would help the other team, so the main benefit you get from playing this at 2 players over solo is lost!
I'm glad you mentioned mage knight with too many bones bit was surprised it didn't make the list on its own since it's listed as 1-4. Mage knight is already difficult to get tabled, I can't imagine trying to slog through a 4 player game.
I purchased Massive Darkness 2, and Zombicide specifically because they allowed up to 6 players…. This makes me sad, because I’ve been chasing everything down for MD2, and haven’t actually played it yet. 😅
Fantastic video! Alex and Chris are also amazing together. Hoping for more videos with you both! Love the conversation on playercount because it is egregious in so many cases, including high profile games.
Cosmic Encounter... box says 3-5. NEVER play this one with 3. I'd be somewhat resistant even to a 4 player game, but I have done it. Also, yeah... any solo game that includes a co-op variant is never better that way. Nemo's War immediately jumped to my mind. I think the only person who likes Onirim co-op is Rahdo that I know of.
I played Marvel Zombies: Heroes Resistance with 5 (adjusting the spawns). I know it says 1 to 4 on the box, but there are 6 characters in the box and we had 5 people. so we tried it. We didn't mind the downtime (we're a chatty group) but trying to keep everyone at roughly the same level meant that we had rounds where some players had unexciting turns. I went back to playing it solo (which I did once with all 6 heroes just for kicks).
Elder Sign is another one: 1-8 players, but the round ends every four turns. So you get one turn every two rounds. You could also add Arkham Horror and Eldritch horror which are also 1-8 players, but for those it is purely the length: they last long enough with only four players. Hegemony works at less, but it best at four due to the asymmetry. And pretty much any game that is marked as "1+" is actually a solo game, 2-player at the maximum.
Here is a game that is on top of my personal list of being offended, and at the same time a recommendation for Chris to play at 6 players - Dune. I refer to the classic Dune game from 1979, reprinted in 2019 (it is the same game, it just includes all the original expansions in a single box). It has a 2 to 6 player count on the box, which is egregiously offensive. It is a 6-player game that is also good at 5. Anything below that player count takes away so much that is not worth touching it, as it is not a short game, and there are much better games that play at 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the rulebook recommends which factions to use when you don't play at the maximum player count, and has a mode where you could have two factions per player in a 2-player game - a very obvious sign that it is really a 6-player game. It is very similar to base-game Root - the factions are designed to interact with each other so well, that you lose a lot by leaving any of them in the box. It is also a fantastic implementation of the theme, immensely better than any of the recent Dune-themed games (I'm looking at you, Dune: Imperium). It is also not that long when played at 6, it takes about 3-3.5 hours at most, provided all players are familiar with the rules, of course.
Just sold my sealed copy of Root and the Clockwork expansion through BGG for $60CAD. I received the main game from Miniature market as a shipping error. After playing the Steam app I cannot imagine myself playing the physical copy solo.
I played zombicide for the first time with 6 players. For the longest time I thought it was such a garbage game because the game took 3 hours. Every time my friends asked to play it I would always veto, it wasn’t until my friend was going to move away and asked if we could play it and realized the game was decent.
I didn't realize there was a 4-player way of playing Santorini. I *do* like the 3-player Santorini quite a bit. It's fun to make that judgment, "Player 2 is going to win if I don't block him/her. Maybe I can leave that up to Player 3 as I advance my own scheming."
Great choices guys!! This video was a lot of fun to watch. Other lies that I think of are: This War of Mine: 1-6 players Eldritch Horror: 1-8 players Star Wars Rebellion: 2-4 players Le Havre: 1-5 players Arkham Horror: 1-6 players
28:00 I love how many times you keep referencing the Brass: Birmingham box cover without showing the box cover at that point. :P I had to tease y'all; good video!
Good video and list. It helps to know these things. Star Wars Rebellion is advertised as 2-4 players, but it's very clearly designed to be a 2 player head to head experience, with "team play" tacked on by dividing responsibilities. Much more fun to just have 1 player on each side deciding what to do on their own, without having to check with someone else every time they want to do something. Although, the same could be said for a lot of games in general, I find. In almost all cases, the more players you add, the longer the game is, and the less everyone has to do individually. Some games can take entire weekends to play if you really go all out with higher player counts. I guess at the end of the day, it depends on the kind of experience you want to have.
I would love to see a list with 6 player games that are actually best when played with that amount. Played myself: TI4+PoK, 7 Wonders, Tiny Towns, Heard that its good with 6: Mission Red Planet, Sidereal Confluenz, Cyclades + Titans, Sonar, Shadows over Camelot
One of my picks would be: TI4 should be 6 players only. It's designed for that player count. While it is doable to play it with 5 players if you adjust the map (for example with hyperlanes) and maybe with 4 and 3 players if in addition you make better rule adjustments than those in the rule book, but it loses a lot with each player fewer than 6 because of fewer negotiation possibilities, fewer opponent diversity and the strategy cards and so on. And on the other hand 7 or 8 players (with the expansion) is too much of a hassle and the map becomes very weird and it's probably bad because there are only 8 strategy cards.
It must be 4 or 8 because it is critical to the game's balance that all strategy cars go off each round. 8 is an all day nobody plays again affair, though. 4 is done in 3 hours, tops, and that was fun.
@@plektosgaming No, not at all. It's actually important that there is a choice and that 2 strategy cards are left out of each round! As I said the game was designed for 6 players exactly.
@@joeferreti9442 It doesn't play as well with them left out as with every action being mandatory. It greatly speeds up the game and pressure put on the players and also gives eash person two strategy cards to play off of each other as they wish. It really does dial thhe game up to 11 and also is a much quicker game as well. 3-4 hours, tops. My record was 2.5 hours with 4 of us being pros at it.
I love playing Santorini with 4 players with a variant: you play as pair, but each player controls only one builder. And you cannot communicate with your pair. This makes the game really tense!
All the deduction "escape room" games are only good at 1-2 players, 2 being the best. More people just makes it a mess, and often leads to a miserable experience.
Having played Inis the most extensively of any board game I own, I can safely say that it is definitely best at 4. It can certainly work at 3 and 5, but the game is just very obviously designed to be played at 4. I would also go so far as to say that you don't need anything from the Seasons expansion. The base game is just so good on its own.
"Magic is a two player game!" Nope! I played the game from 1995 to 2010, and it's fantastic at higher player counts. 3-player "only attack to the left", 4-player two-headed giant, 5-player pentagram, and 6-player Emperor are all memorable experiences. And so is simple chaos "attack anyone" magic if played over multiple games for victory points. (So much meta politics!) If you haven't tried these options, you haven't played all the fun in the game.
@@renato123wenzel I own some cards, have played, but never had the opportunity for a real group play. Maybe my opinion would change had it been more popular and available in my town.
4 player Santorini New York is pretty chaotic fun. For us it usually ends with an epic battle happening at one end of the board, while someone sneaks a victory at the other.
Looking through my own collection, the best examples I have (though I've not actually tried them at the 'wrong' player counts, so going by BGG's opinions) are Bang: The Dice Game saying 3-8, when you really need at least 5 (the three-player game is barely the same as the real game), 6 nimmt! saying you can play it with two people, and (and this is probably the most egregious) Captain Sonar saying it's a two to eight player game, when I think most people wouldn't even think of playing it with less than six.
You guys should definitely try Citadels with two players. Personally, any count over 3 makes the pace of the game too slow for such a light weight game, but with two you get to choose two cards every round and that makes this game so much more.
The only thing bugging me more than the 2-4 player designation on the Santorini box is folks on BGG forums who are more than happy to jump in every thread inquiring about the player number with exuberant posts that go "Yes! It's great with 3 and 4! We play like that all the time and it's so much fun!" Really? REALLY? What do you do after, play a nice relaxing 6-player game of Chess?
I saw someone in a BGG forum saying that contrary to popular opinion Santorini is great at four player, so I bought it and tried to introduce it to my group as a four player game and it was such a bad experience that now none of them will play it with me (give it another chance).
My #1 is Twilight Imperium. It can be comfortably played in 2-3 hours with 4 and exactly 4 people. What is important as well is that sandbagging and mechanics abuse is impossibble as every phase is always played, making it a strategy as well. ie - you KNOW trade is coming. Do you build now or wait until it is played? I've seen more than one 5 or 6 player game where some strategy cards are never chosen in order to mess with a specific faction.
@@BoardGameCo And the thing is, reducing the game to a 3-4 hour at most (really, 3 hours if everyone is experienced) experience means it is a game you play as often as something like Terra Mystica or Mansions of Madness. A big complex and weighty, but quick and over with in an evening, with everyone swearing they were almost goign to win instead. Expanding thhe game to 5 or 6 players ( or 8 with the expansions, especially in the 3rd edition, commonly seen at conventions) is - too much to keep track of and not enough immediate interaction. With 4 players, eveyone is your neighbor and there is no hiding from the clock quickly moving forwards. To compare this to another game, Chaos in the Old World, 4 players is perfectly balanced and wonderful. Adding in the 5th player expansion faction just changes so many little things for really no extra gain. The game drags and feels so much more tedious versus a perfectly balanced knife edge.
I actually had a game of Spirit Island with 7 friends (2 of them on a team) and me as a sort of "DM" or MC, answering questions left and right and helping with overall strategy. It was an absolute blast, but I was lucky enough to have the right friends.
I don't know, as someone that reads BGG Forum Posts, it seems like people get waaay saltier about board games not having the player count they DEMAND to play at (regardless of whether that would suck to play) than they do when the box includes player counts that aren't good.
Really enjoyed this conversation! As a person who has been burned by player count lies. To add to the 6-person player count discussion - when people want to do a "Double-date" game night - I'm close to just sticking to team party games. After trying to play 2-4 player games as (3) teams of (2) - I'm a inefficient player count offender 😂
Great video! Loved it. Some morning coffee fodder. 😉 Through the Ages is one of my favourite games, but I do think it’s fine at 2 players. For me, the game is about constantly trying to balance my development strategy and one of the biggest parts of this is modifying my priorities based on what my opponent is doing. This makes the game even crunchier and, ultimately, rewarding. A really memorable experience ended up mirroring a Cold War scenario where we both ended up doing far worse because we were forced to both overbuild military. My favourite part of the game is getting to the end and looking back and seeing real world parallels from empires throughout history. Makes me feel that the game is so much more than just a board game.
Thank you for the enjoyable video! Great you joined up for it. Please please do a video about 6 player games that are not party games ... it would be perfect for our group. The selection is so limited that always playing the same gets boring ^^
I love the look of this game but wasn't sure if it was good at two because play-through videos are higher player counts, so haven't late pledged yet, but maybe I should... (I play mainly 2 player)
I know is some kind of joke but, there's a significant difference between "recommended" and "that's a lie". Dixit is forced to be a 3 player, as 7 Wonders does for 2. Or the 2 player games forced to be "2 or 4". That's waaay different than "i prefer Root with 4 players than 3 players".
😂 I saw her from the beginning, the woman, I mean. I'm glad you didn't choose Mage Knight, the best 5 player experience out there, only takes 20h to finish. Or how to forget the 6 player experience that Spirit Island can provide?
I know Too Many Bones is on the list but I’m surprised burncycle didn’t make it in the very top. The turns are so long and everyone being able to control the CM makes for a lot of quaterbacking. Wonderful at solo or 2 player.
Antike (2005 edition). 2-6 players. Plays best with 4-6. BGG says {commuity 3-6, best 5}. Thing is that rules have players controlling multiple empires for 2 and 3 player games. Brain burn. Turns are usually quick, and taking one action a turn works well with 4-6 players. Double sided board; play on Roman or Alexandrian side. For a deterministic style game without random events, it works surprisingly well with 4 to 6 players. Had multiple weeks during (7+) years of play. Only other game that worked as well with up to 6 players is Railways of the World, mostly on the Eastern US or England maps.
Ok, first question, not that I necessarily disagree, but you didn't actually specify what was bad about Caverna at 5, 6, or 7 players. Is it just that the game is too long then? Is it the board options that are available at those player counts? I've played it at 7 and, aside from game length, it didn't seem that bad, so just wondering about the specific reason. Second, I think Zombicide needs to be exactly 1, 2, 3, or 6 players. Are the player count rules that different between versions? Now, I only have and have only really played Undead or Alive, so I don't know if the other versions are different, but in Undead or Alive, there is always 6 survivors, so at 4 or 5 players, some people use a single character and some use 2, which is just annoying, so that's why I say it needs to be an equal number of survivors per player, but I don't really see it being bad at 6 players. Now, the confusing statement for me was when Chris said that when someone dies, they are sitting there. I guess that means that there must be a difference in other versions because in Undead (I pulled out the rulebook to verify this), if any one survivor dies, you lose the game, so there is no player elimination and nobody is sitting around watching while the rest continue. Maybe that statement was meant more for Massive Darkness than Zombicide? Is there some other reason it would be bad at 6?
Oh, hello Chris! I must admit, I always noticed the woman on the cover, carrying her basket of goods. ;) Great video, very entertaining, nice to see Chris on your channel. I enjoyed the banter and hearing from both of you.
I'm of the same opinion about Race for the Galaxy as Chris is about Seasons. Played a thousand games on BFA with two players and won't play it any other way.
I disagree with you on Zombicide- I typically run that game for 8-15 teenagers playing the heroes and me managing the zombie upkeep and it's a riot- they won't even plan a game if they can't get at least 6 people to show up!
Ankh seems to be so divisive. Some are like warm on it while I've heard a number of people call it Lang's masterpiece. I haven't had a chance to play it yet but have a copy coming specifically for 2 players (what I play at 99% of the time), and I'm really looking forward to it.
I do not completely agree with the oniverse games being only solo. I feel the 2 player modifications do more than just *you do it together*. It also adds a little complexity like a shared card piles/spaces with which you can give your cards to eachother indirectly but it costs a turn. Or you both have a seperate set of goals so the same logic to get everything solo does not apply since you will get cards the other player needs and you need to move around with that. I play the onirim games with my elders a lot and it makes for an engaging time everytime where we have to puzzle it out together. It is a "watch out for the driver" co-op experience like most co-ops though. (In its core base pandemic is in this way also a true solo game where you play the characters together in multiplayer where it could also be just 1 person driving and the rest browsing their phone till it ends). I agree with a lot of the rest of the video though, great stuff!
Great video guys How about a 'List of Games with a hidden player count' ? Example: A game is 3-4 but you can play it 2 player or a game is 1-2 player but can be played upto 4?
Alex is going to pay the $150 for me to have an extra copy of Too Many Bones so I can play it with Ethel. All joking aside my group played a ton of Too Many Bones at 3 and we enjoyed it. I do agree that adding a 4th would be have been 1 to many. We use to have a larger group but, having downsized to just three of us, we are finding that its a sweet spot for a ton of games.
Star Wars Rebellion and other games like it (War of the Ring) comes to mind is strictly a 2 player game. The 3-4 player count has players sharing pieces. Also, Marvel Legendary. Second play was at 5. By the time you get the chance you finally got to shuffle for a chance to get a card you bought, the enemy river is untenable. 3 player is the best.
Sagrada - I played it at a high player count and thought it was terrible. I felt it was completely random and painfully slow. Then I played it at 2p and loved it. I play at 2p all the time and enjoy it but definitely wouldn't play it at a high player count. Obsession is one of my favorite games, but there's a 5-player expansion and it's a game that's best played at 2-3... at 5 the downtime is insane and it makes no sense to play that way.
@@RoomandBoardReviews I have it, but never played it. Usually play more social multi-player games. Mostly get and play expansions when we tire of basic game, but this one I picked up because I liked the basic game a lot and thought it might not have 'legs' if I wanted to get it later and find it all gone. Barony's that good; like 'Chess' and 'Go' a lot too, but don't play much anymore. Recently played FlameCraft (BGG 1-5; best 3) in a 3 way (3 generations of family) game and had a gas.
Five Tribes player count is 2-4, they even added a 5th player expansion to it which doesn't make sense. Max for that game should be three players as it's such an AP inducing game that anymore than 3 players is just a painful experience to sit through.
Really liked this. I took Root off my physical copy wish list because anybody that would want to play it would probably already own a copy. For part II, how about Antike II or Hansa Teutonica? Does ISS Vanguard play well at 4, or is it really 1-2 player?
Arena the Contest. Says it's a 1-8 player game. It's really a 2 team game were you choose heros for 3v3 or 4v4 . As heros die there will be turns that some will sit out. I find it's best as a 1v1 were you control your team or 2v2 and you and your teammate each control 2 heros. If you have adventures it is still a 1-4 player count. Great game, just lies about 1-8
Nice list 🙂 One thing, I disagree with alex, is zombicide: We have a lot of fun with 5-Players :) I have 3 games who are lying: King of Tokyo: It says 2-6 but it doesn't make fun with 2 players. It is boring. It is senseless. Better play King of Monster Island. Nemesis: The same as KoT: it is boring, no tension. For me with 4 and more players it is the best. In another direction is So Clover!: I played it a lot with my girlfriend at it works for 2 players and makes fun.
The chemestry between you two is just so good. You should definently try this again or make it a regular. Great video. For me its every lovecraftian game i own exept lcg. 1 to 8!!!!! Max 4 but best at 3. Mansions of madness, eldritch horror and arkham horror. Leave the 5+ players to games like 7 wonders, bullet❤, Diamant or party games. There are many more out there that i makes the mp work but lovecraft is NOT one of them.
Chris is 100% wrong about number 6- 2 is incredibly well balanced, I play at 2 more than any other player count. 4 player is great, but I actually prefer 2, and 3 is also excellent. It is fully engaging at every player count, has no business on this list.
No doubt there are games where certain player count numbers are effectively a lie. But Inis doesn't belong on that list. Inis at 3 still beats most area control games.
I'd add Tainted Grail to this. Quite possibly my favorite game of all time, but it only works at 1 or 2 players. With 3 or 4 there is just too much going on.
Totally Disagree about Through the Ages. ONE - Don't do that. TWO, in a three-player game, two players can gang up on the third, a problem with many 3-player games with combat. Heck, there are even alternative rules in the rulebook to try to prevent this. All that said, TtA with two experienced players is brilliant! If one player fails to create a military, that's a player-fault, not a game-fault.
I disagree with Zombicide. We had a very tight knit group of 4 and only used 1 character each and we had a blast going through all the scenarios. I guess it depends on your group though, cause I've seen games with a smaller count drag due to AP and lack of strategy.
"Imperium: Classics" or "Legends". Box says 1-4 and that is career-politician levels of false. I can't speak to the solo game, but I've played it at 3 and 4 and never want to suffer a fate like that again. Imperium is a 2-player game [that also desperately needs a better rulebook]. Another good entry would be "The Search For Planet X". That is not not not a 3 or 4-player game. 1 is fine, 2 is great. Any more is pretty miserable.
This war of mine is a solo game. The box says 1-6 but it means you just take turns taking the same decisions you would’ve had to take in solo, absolutely no gameplay difference
Good choice!
Its a shame you two are not partners! Great video and hope to see more collaborations in the future!!!
Thanks!
Agree this collab was an absolute delight!!
Brass- any player count. Always great.
I didn't even care what the subject was because having the two of you on the same screen makes my day! Definitely agree on Sprawlopolis, Dice Throne, Massive Darkness, and Santorini. For Unlock, I have only played them at four players and always had a good time. Brass Birmingham I have only played at 2-players so I am excited to try it with more.
2 of my very favourites in board gaming youtube sat together......covering a really obscure but genuinely helpful and interesting topic.
Thanks for this.
Thank you Tobias!
The unlock pick reminded me of something: Sherlock Holmes Consulting detective.
I think it is good solo, but 2 is even better - just having the chance to bounce ideas of each other is great. And there is usually enough material that two players can read two different clues (one takes the story book, the other takes the newspaper articles).
As soon as you have a 3rd player, you just pass material around the entire time, the 3rd player doesn't make it faster or easier, since whenever anybody is checking anything that means one of the players is just doing nothing, waiting for papers to get passed to them.
Now guess the official player count...
.....
.....
1 - 8 !!!!!
I think up to 4 players you are supposed to all cooperate and then above that the rulebook tells you to split into 2 teams both solving the same mystery and compare who does it in less steps, which is an absurd way to play the game - not only are half of the players waiting for materials so they can look at anything, you can't even discuss stuff out loud, since you would help the other team, so the main benefit you get from playing this at 2 players over solo is lost!
Bit late to the party, but I think Caverna going up to specifically 7 players is a reference to the 7 dwarfs from snow white
I'm glad you mentioned mage knight with too many bones bit was surprised it didn't make the list on its own since it's listed as 1-4. Mage knight is already difficult to get tabled, I can't imagine trying to slog through a 4 player game.
I purchased Massive Darkness 2, and Zombicide specifically because they allowed up to 6 players…. This makes me sad, because I’ve been chasing everything down for MD2, and haven’t actually played it yet. 😅
Fantastic video! Alex and Chris are also amazing together. Hoping for more videos with you both! Love the conversation on playercount because it is egregious in so many cases, including high profile games.
I had a lot of fun with Chris:)
Battlestar Galactica should have been on the list, a 3-6 player game that only works well at 5.
I wasn't familiar with Chris' videos, but I enjoyed him as a guest and will have to check them out :)
His stuff is great :)
Cosmic Encounter... box says 3-5. NEVER play this one with 3. I'd be somewhat resistant even to a 4 player game, but I have done it. Also, yeah... any solo game that includes a co-op variant is never better that way. Nemo's War immediately jumped to my mind. I think the only person who likes Onirim co-op is Rahdo that I know of.
I played Marvel Zombies: Heroes Resistance with 5 (adjusting the spawns). I know it says 1 to 4 on the box, but there are 6 characters in the box and we had 5 people. so we tried it. We didn't mind the downtime (we're a chatty group) but trying to keep everyone at roughly the same level meant that we had rounds where some players had unexciting turns. I went back to playing it solo (which I did once with all 6 heroes just for kicks).
Elder Sign is another one: 1-8 players, but the round ends every four turns. So you get one turn every two rounds. You could also add Arkham Horror and Eldritch horror which are also 1-8 players, but for those it is purely the length: they last long enough with only four players.
Hegemony works at less, but it best at four due to the asymmetry.
And pretty much any game that is marked as "1+" is actually a solo game, 2-player at the maximum.
Great video guys. Hilarious banter. Two of my favorite content creators together. Hope you do this again soon.
Thanks Mark!
Here is a game that is on top of my personal list of being offended, and at the same time a recommendation for Chris to play at 6 players - Dune. I refer to the classic Dune game from 1979, reprinted in 2019 (it is the same game, it just includes all the original expansions in a single box). It has a 2 to 6 player count on the box, which is egregiously offensive. It is a 6-player game that is also good at 5. Anything below that player count takes away so much that is not worth touching it, as it is not a short game, and there are much better games that play at 3 or 4 players. Furthermore, the rulebook recommends which factions to use when you don't play at the maximum player count, and has a mode where you could have two factions per player in a 2-player game - a very obvious sign that it is really a 6-player game.
It is very similar to base-game Root - the factions are designed to interact with each other so well, that you lose a lot by leaving any of them in the box. It is also a fantastic implementation of the theme, immensely better than any of the recent Dune-themed games (I'm looking at you, Dune: Imperium). It is also not that long when played at 6, it takes about 3-3.5 hours at most, provided all players are familiar with the rules, of course.
Just sold my sealed copy of Root and the Clockwork expansion through BGG for $60CAD. I received the main game from Miniature market as a shipping error. After playing the Steam app I cannot imagine myself playing the physical copy solo.
I played zombicide for the first time with 6 players. For the longest time I thought it was such a garbage game because the game took 3 hours. Every time my friends asked to play it I would always veto, it wasn’t until my friend was going to move away and asked if we could play it and realized the game was decent.
Are we going to see a "The Playtime Count Is A Lie" video next?
Oooh....that does sound like a good follow up!
Love this idea
It would be a more fun list to see which ones are NOT lies. I don't know many games that actually play in their listed time.
I didn't realize there was a 4-player way of playing Santorini. I *do* like the 3-player Santorini quite a bit. It's fun to make that judgment, "Player 2 is going to win if I don't block him/her. Maybe I can leave that up to Player 3 as I advance my own scheming."
While I agreed to an extent, I find that kind of decision making often lends itself to kingmaking
Can confirm. NEVER go full Caverna. Our experience featured 2 new players AND at least 3 players with AP.
I'd imagine!
That would be horrifying even at 3 players!
Great choices guys!! This video was a lot of fun to watch. Other lies that I think of are:
This War of Mine: 1-6 players
Eldritch Horror: 1-8 players
Star Wars Rebellion: 2-4 players
Le Havre: 1-5 players
Arkham Horror: 1-6 players
This has been a very enjoyable video you two. Your reactions from some of the takes by Chris are priceless. (Ankh & Zombicide) Well done guys.
I am heading to Target tonight with a sharpie. Time to correct those boxes.
You're doing the Lord's work
28:00 I love how many times you keep referencing the Brass: Birmingham box cover without showing the box cover at that point. :P
I had to tease y'all; good video!
Good video and list. It helps to know these things.
Star Wars Rebellion is advertised as 2-4 players, but it's very clearly designed to be a 2 player head to head experience, with "team play" tacked on by dividing responsibilities.
Much more fun to just have 1 player on each side deciding what to do on their own, without having to check with someone else every time they want to do something.
Although, the same could be said for a lot of games in general, I find. In almost all cases, the more players you add, the longer the game is, and the less everyone has to do individually. Some games can take entire weekends to play if you really go all out with higher player counts.
I guess at the end of the day, it depends on the kind of experience you want to have.
That last sentence is for sure true...at the end of the day, these are all opinions
I would love to see a list with 6 player games that are actually best when played with that amount.
Played myself:
TI4+PoK, 7 Wonders, Tiny Towns,
Heard that its good with 6:
Mission Red Planet, Sidereal Confluenz, Cyclades + Titans, Sonar, Shadows over Camelot
I should do a bunch of videos of best with
One of my picks would be: TI4 should be 6 players only. It's designed for that player count.
While it is doable to play it with 5 players if you adjust the map (for example with hyperlanes) and maybe with 4 and 3 players if in addition you make better rule adjustments than those in the rule book, but it loses a lot with each player fewer than 6 because of fewer negotiation possibilities, fewer opponent diversity and the strategy cards and so on. And on the other hand 7 or 8 players (with the expansion) is too much of a hassle and the map becomes very weird and it's probably bad because there are only 8 strategy cards.
It must be 4 or 8 because it is critical to the game's balance that all strategy cars go off each round. 8 is an all day nobody plays again affair, though. 4 is done in 3 hours, tops, and that was fun.
@@plektosgaming No, not at all. It's actually important that there is a choice and that 2 strategy cards are left out of each round! As I said the game was designed for 6 players exactly.
@@joeferreti9442 It doesn't play as well with them left out as with every action being mandatory. It greatly speeds up the game and pressure put on the players and also gives eash person two strategy cards to play off of each other as they wish. It really does dial thhe game up to 11 and also is a much quicker game as well. 3-4 hours, tops. My record was 2.5 hours with 4 of us being pros at it.
My wife and i play Final Girl together. I wish they would put 1-4 on the box. Cooperative decision making should count! 🤣
I love playing Santorini with 4 players with a variant: you play as pair, but each player controls only one builder. And you cannot communicate with your pair. This makes the game really tense!
Hmm would you play MD2 with 6 Chars though like 2-3 players with 3-2 chars? Might make for interesting combo building
All the deduction "escape room" games are only good at 1-2 players, 2 being the best.
More people just makes it a mess, and often leads to a miserable experience.
Chris George!!!! Hype!
Me looking at the thumbnail: "Yes, this is normal."
Me clicking on the video and seeing Chris George: "WHAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?"
Lol yep
Having played Inis the most extensively of any board game I own, I can safely say that it is definitely best at 4. It can certainly work at 3 and 5, but the game is just very obviously designed to be played at 4. I would also go so far as to say that you don't need anything from the Seasons expansion. The base game is just so good on its own.
My Wife and I LOVE Bunny Kingdom at 2 players because of the draft and discard mechanic.
I just don't like the lack of area control
"Magic is a two player game!"
Nope! I played the game from 1995 to 2010, and it's fantastic at higher player counts. 3-player "only attack to the left", 4-player two-headed giant, 5-player pentagram, and 6-player Emperor are all memorable experiences. And so is simple chaos "attack anyone" magic if played over multiple games for victory points. (So much meta politics!) If you haven't tried these options, you haven't played all the fun in the game.
I'll let Chris defend himself ;)
Why not just play Vampire Eternal Struggle wich is a fantastic multiplayer experience
@@renato123wenzel I own some cards, have played, but never had the opportunity for a real group play. Maybe my opinion would change had it been more popular and available in my town.
4 player Santorini New York is pretty chaotic fun. For us it usually ends with an epic battle happening at one end of the board, while someone sneaks a victory at the other.
Chris George! you are amazing! where in Canada do you live exactly?
@@JohnnyDustwalker Hahahaha and can someone lend me a shovel and some rope
This sounds perfectly safe to me! Toronto!
Looking through my own collection, the best examples I have (though I've not actually tried them at the 'wrong' player counts, so going by BGG's opinions) are Bang: The Dice Game saying 3-8, when you really need at least 5 (the three-player game is barely the same as the real game), 6 nimmt! saying you can play it with two people, and (and this is probably the most egregious) Captain Sonar saying it's a two to eight player game, when I think most people wouldn't even think of playing it with less than six.
You guys should definitely try Citadels with two players. Personally, any count over 3 makes the pace of the game too slow for such a light weight game, but with two you get to choose two cards every round and that makes this game so much more.
The only thing bugging me more than the 2-4 player designation on the Santorini box is folks on BGG forums who are more than happy to jump in every thread inquiring about the player number with exuberant posts that go "Yes! It's great with 3 and 4! We play like that all the time and it's so much fun!" Really? REALLY? What do you do after, play a nice relaxing 6-player game of Chess?
Definitely wanna see more content with you guys
Same here :)
I saw someone in a BGG forum saying that contrary to popular opinion Santorini is great at four player, so I bought it and tried to introduce it to my group as a four player game and it was such a bad experience that now none of them will play it with me (give it another chance).
Chris, you're waaaaayy more right than Alex. Even your beard is more right than Alex's beard.
Well I'll agree on everything except the beard
I actually thought Santorini WAS just a two player game. I haven’t played it for awhile though.
Exactly:)
Inis plays amazingly at 3, it feels like the 12 cards without the extra 4 of 4 player games are much more balanced and equally viable 👌
My #1 is Twilight Imperium. It can be comfortably played in 2-3 hours with 4 and exactly 4 people.
What is important as well is that sandbagging and mechanics abuse is impossibble as every phase is always played, making it a strategy as well. ie - you KNOW trade is coming. Do you build now or wait until it is played? I've seen more than one 5 or 6 player game where some strategy cards are never chosen in order to mess with a specific faction.
Ouch, that can hurt
@@BoardGameCo And the thing is, reducing the game to a 3-4 hour at most (really, 3 hours if everyone is experienced) experience means it is a game you play as often as something like Terra Mystica or Mansions of Madness. A big complex and weighty, but quick and over with in an evening, with everyone swearing they were almost goign to win instead. Expanding thhe game to 5 or 6 players ( or 8 with the expansions, especially in the 3rd edition, commonly seen at conventions) is - too much to keep track of and not enough immediate interaction. With 4 players, eveyone is your neighbor and there is no hiding from the clock quickly moving forwards. To compare this to another game, Chaos in the Old World, 4 players is perfectly balanced and wonderful. Adding in the 5th player expansion faction just changes so many little things for really no extra gain. The game drags and feels so much more tedious versus a perfectly balanced knife edge.
I’m surprised Spirit Island didn’t make this list.
Honestly, you're not wrong
@@BoardGameCo With the expansions. It says 1-6.... No thank you.
I actually had a game of Spirit Island with 7 friends (2 of them on a team) and me as a sort of "DM" or MC, answering questions left and right and helping with overall strategy. It was an absolute blast, but I was lucky enough to have the right friends.
I don't know, as someone that reads BGG Forum Posts, it seems like people get waaay saltier about board games not having the player count they DEMAND to play at (regardless of whether that would suck to play) than they do when the box includes player counts that aren't good.
Really enjoyed this conversation! As a person who has been burned by player count lies. To add to the 6-person player count discussion - when people want to do a "Double-date" game night - I'm close to just sticking to team party games. After trying to play 2-4 player games as (3) teams of (2) - I'm a inefficient player count offender 😂
Never notices the reflection in Brass cover before! 🤯
Love Chris channel!
Chris is excellent:)
Great video! Loved it. Some morning coffee fodder. 😉 Through the Ages is one of my favourite games, but I do think it’s fine at 2 players. For me, the game is about constantly trying to balance my development strategy and one of the biggest parts of this is modifying my priorities based on what my opponent is doing. This makes the game even crunchier and, ultimately, rewarding. A really memorable experience ended up mirroring a Cold War scenario where we both ended up doing far worse because we were forced to both overbuild military. My favourite part of the game is getting to the end and looking back and seeing real world parallels from empires throughout history. Makes me feel that the game is so much more than just a board game.
I can appreciate that for sure. It's an incredible experience
I am so happy you did not include 1 to 11 players Dead of Winter Warring Colonies.
Lol fair
I would love a list for best boardgames for large parties! (>3 players)
Thank you for the enjoyable video! Great you joined up for it.
Please please do a video about 6 player games that are not party games ... it would be perfect for our group. The selection is so limited that always playing the same gets boring ^^
You can't kill one of the player in Dice Throne 2v2 team games - the 2 players in the team share the health pool.
I assume Chris said that? Maybe? Unsure.
Wonderlands war is clearly a 2-3 player game and it's amazing. Never play it 4 player unless every single player is utterly great at the game.
That's basically where I'm at with it
I love the look of this game but wasn't sure if it was good at two because play-through videos are higher player counts, so haven't late pledged yet, but maybe I should... (I play mainly 2 player)
I know is some kind of joke but, there's a significant difference between "recommended" and "that's a lie".
Dixit is forced to be a 3 player, as 7 Wonders does for 2. Or the 2 player games forced to be "2 or 4". That's waaay different than "i prefer Root with 4 players than 3 players".
😂 I saw her from the beginning, the woman, I mean. I'm glad you didn't choose Mage Knight, the best 5 player experience out there, only takes 20h to finish. Or how to forget the 6 player experience that Spirit Island can provide?
I know Too Many Bones is on the list but I’m surprised burncycle didn’t make it in the very top. The turns are so long and everyone being able to control the CM makes for a lot of quaterbacking. Wonderful at solo or 2 player.
Chris from Room and Board is a gem. Glad to see him on here. Such a positive dude.
Yes he is :)
Great video !!! Is Root with automa viable at 2 players plus 2 automas ?
Antike (2005 edition). 2-6 players. Plays best with 4-6. BGG says {commuity 3-6, best 5}. Thing is that rules have players controlling multiple empires for 2 and 3 player games. Brain burn. Turns are usually quick, and taking one action a turn works well with 4-6 players. Double sided board; play on Roman or Alexandrian side. For a deterministic style game without random events, it works surprisingly well with 4 to 6 players. Had multiple weeks during (7+) years of play. Only other game that worked as well with up to 6 players is Railways of the World, mostly on the Eastern US or England maps.
Ok, first question, not that I necessarily disagree, but you didn't actually specify what was bad about Caverna at 5, 6, or 7 players. Is it just that the game is too long then? Is it the board options that are available at those player counts? I've played it at 7 and, aside from game length, it didn't seem that bad, so just wondering about the specific reason.
Second, I think Zombicide needs to be exactly 1, 2, 3, or 6 players. Are the player count rules that different between versions? Now, I only have and have only really played Undead or Alive, so I don't know if the other versions are different, but in Undead or Alive, there is always 6 survivors, so at 4 or 5 players, some people use a single character and some use 2, which is just annoying, so that's why I say it needs to be an equal number of survivors per player, but I don't really see it being bad at 6 players. Now, the confusing statement for me was when Chris said that when someone dies, they are sitting there. I guess that means that there must be a difference in other versions because in Undead (I pulled out the rulebook to verify this), if any one survivor dies, you lose the game, so there is no player elimination and nobody is sitting around watching while the rest continue. Maybe that statement was meant more for Massive Darkness than Zombicide? Is there some other reason it would be bad at 6?
Oh, hello Chris!
I must admit, I always noticed the woman on the cover, carrying her basket of goods. ;)
Great video, very entertaining, nice to see Chris on your channel. I enjoyed the banter and hearing from both of you.
See I always knew you were smarter than me Stacie and now I have proof!!
@@RoomandBoardReviews 😆
I'm of the same opinion about Race for the Galaxy as Chris is about Seasons. Played a thousand games on BFA with two players and won't play it any other way.
Oh yeah Race for the Galaxy is a great one
I disagree with you on Zombicide- I typically run that game for 8-15 teenagers playing the heroes and me managing the zombie upkeep and it's a riot- they won't even plan a game if they can't get at least 6 people to show up!
Well then the limit of 6 is still a lie ;)
@@BoardGameCo HA! Perfect response! Love your videos keep them coming!
I'm confident Caverna goes to 7 because of the 7 dwarves, and they just let the joke run.
Ya....but that's a terrible reason to do it. Plus with kids that makes it the 35 dwarves
It really surprised me to see Dice Throne on the list twice. I run a weekly play group and we've had a blast at 2, 3, 4 and 6.
Ankh seems to be so divisive. Some are like warm on it while I've heard a number of people call it Lang's masterpiece.
I haven't had a chance to play it yet but have a copy coming specifically for 2 players (what I play at 99% of the time), and I'm really looking forward to it.
Seasons was our groups number one game for years and we exclusively played in three and four players.
Totally fair :)
I do not completely agree with the oniverse games being only solo. I feel the 2 player modifications do more than just *you do it together*. It also adds a little complexity like a shared card piles/spaces with which you can give your cards to eachother indirectly but it costs a turn. Or you both have a seperate set of goals so the same logic to get everything solo does not apply since you will get cards the other player needs and you need to move around with that. I play the onirim games with my elders a lot and it makes for an engaging time everytime where we have to puzzle it out together.
It is a "watch out for the driver" co-op experience like most co-ops though. (In its core base pandemic is in this way also a true solo game where you play the characters together in multiplayer where it could also be just 1 person driving and the rest browsing their phone till it ends).
I agree with a lot of the rest of the video though, great stuff!
Great video guys
How about a 'List of Games with a hidden player count' ?
Example: A game is 3-4 but you can play it 2 player or a game is 1-2 player but can be played upto 4?
Alex is going to pay the $150 for me to have an extra copy of Too Many Bones so I can play it with Ethel. All joking aside my group played a ton of Too Many Bones at 3 and we enjoyed it. I do agree that adding a 4th would be have been 1 to many.
We use to have a larger group but, having downsized to just three of us, we are finding that its a sweet spot for a ton of games.
Star Wars Rebellion and other games like it (War of the Ring) comes to mind is strictly a 2 player game. The 3-4 player count has players sharing pieces.
Also, Marvel Legendary. Second play was at 5. By the time you get the chance you finally got to shuffle for a chance to get a card you bought, the enemy river is untenable. 3 player is the best.
I have played 5 and 6 player root and the chaos was fantastic! It is a time commitment, but super fun.
It's more the sub 4 players that were complaining about
That dice throne scenario Chris was mentioning with teams....they played wrong if a player died. Teams share 1 health dial
Maybe not wrong but not the optimal team variant
Sagrada - I played it at a high player count and thought it was terrible. I felt it was completely random and painfully slow. Then I played it at 2p and loved it. I play at 2p all the time and enjoy it but definitely wouldn't play it at a high player count. Obsession is one of my favorite games, but there's a 5-player expansion and it's a game that's best played at 2-3... at 5 the downtime is insane and it makes no sense to play that way.
Preach. I very much agree MtG is a 2-player game ("I'm not interested in your EDH/Commander group")
Yes!
My 2 favorite channels combined!
Thanks reed!
So 'right on' about Barony. There is also an expansion.
Great if you like chess and/or deterministic style play.
I've never played the expansion, do you think I should pick it up?
@@RoomandBoardReviews I have it, but never played it. Usually play more social multi-player games. Mostly get and play expansions when we tire of basic game, but this one I picked up because I liked the basic game a lot and thought it might not have 'legs' if I wanted to get it later and find it all gone. Barony's that good; like 'Chess' and 'Go' a lot too, but don't play much anymore.
Recently played FlameCraft (BGG 1-5; best 3) in a 3 way (3 generations of family) game and had a gas.
Five Tribes player count is 2-4, they even added a 5th player expansion to it which doesn't make sense. Max for that game should be three players as it's such an AP inducing game that anymore than 3 players is just a painful experience to sit through.
Bloodrage is just so overrated. Any game that every conversation starts talking about the single overpowered strat. Is not a forgivable mistake.
Great Collaboration!!! Look forward to more!
Thanks Michael !
Really liked this. I took Root off my physical copy wish list because anybody that would want to play it would probably already own a copy. For part II, how about Antike II or Hansa Teutonica? Does ISS Vanguard play well at 4, or is it really 1-2 player?
Ankh is brilliant at 3 players. The merge becomes extremely strategic. If played properly, the merge pair can destroy the leader.
Arena the Contest. Says it's a 1-8 player game. It's really a 2 team game were you choose heros for 3v3 or 4v4 . As heros die there will be turns that some will sit out. I find it's best as a 1v1 were you control your team or 2v2 and you and your teammate each control 2 heros. If you have adventures it is still a 1-4 player count. Great game, just lies about 1-8
Nice list 🙂
One thing, I disagree with alex, is zombicide: We have a lot of fun with 5-Players :)
I have 3 games who are lying:
King of Tokyo: It says 2-6 but it doesn't make fun with 2 players. It is boring. It is senseless. Better play King of Monster Island.
Nemesis: The same as KoT: it is boring, no tension. For me with 4 and more players it is the best.
In another direction is So Clover!: I played it a lot with my girlfriend at it works for 2 players and makes fun.
The chemestry between you two is just so good. You should definently try this again or make it a regular. Great video. For me its every lovecraftian game i own exept lcg. 1 to 8!!!!! Max 4 but best at 3. Mansions of madness, eldritch horror and arkham horror. Leave the 5+ players to games like 7 wonders, bullet❤, Diamant or party games. There are many more out there that i makes the mp work but lovecraft is NOT one of them.
Thanks :) I do enjoy Chris :)
Scythe plays 2-5, but it's really 4-7,with the option to add Automa and Mad Tesla to simulate other players of you have less than four.
Chris is 100% wrong about number 6- 2 is incredibly well balanced, I play at 2 more than any other player count. 4 player is great, but I actually prefer 2, and 3 is also excellent. It is fully engaging at every player count, has no business on this list.
Lol fair
Rereading this, it is way more direct than I remember it being 😂
U two need to do more content together. Chemistry is great and my two favorites on one show. What could be better...oh ya, a catch phrase. 😂
I love Chris :) he's amazing
No doubt there are games where certain player count numbers are effectively a lie. But Inis doesn't belong on that list. Inis at 3 still beats most area control games.
I'd add Tainted Grail to this. Quite possibly my favorite game of all time, but it only works at 1 or 2 players. With 3 or 4 there is just too much going on.
Yesssss my two favorite board game content creators!!
Chris is great :)
Totally Disagree about Through the Ages. ONE - Don't do that. TWO, in a three-player game, two players can gang up on the third, a problem with many 3-player games with combat. Heck, there are even alternative rules in the rulebook to try to prevent this. All that said, TtA with two experienced players is brilliant! If one player fails to create a military, that's a player-fault, not a game-fault.
I disagree with Zombicide. We had a very tight knit group of 4 and only used 1 character each and we had a blast going through all the scenarios. I guess it depends on your group though, cause I've seen games with a smaller count drag due to AP and lack of strategy.
Star wars rebellion definitely belongs here too
Oh absolutely I always forget it has more than 2 on the box
"Imperium: Classics" or "Legends". Box says 1-4 and that is career-politician levels of false. I can't speak to the solo game, but I've played it at 3 and 4 and never want to suffer a fate like that again. Imperium is a 2-player game [that also desperately needs a better rulebook]. Another good entry would be "The Search For Planet X". That is not not not a 3 or 4-player game. 1 is fine, 2 is great. Any more is pretty miserable.
Both are great entries 🙂 more so imperium