@@princeofpeace6432 Just ask Mangs. But I would probably put FE2 Luka, FE4 Quan, FE4 Finn (gen 2), FE5 Finn, FE6 Dieck, FE7 Oswin, FE10 Nolan, the avatars, FE14 Jakob/Felicia(?) and the FE16 Lords.
@@meggy8875 I could see that... I'm not very familiar with Fates. Jakob was glued to Corrin's back in my runs, but I heard he is also really useful as a Paladin. I'll add them to the list.
The thing about Reina is she's actually a Flier Jagen. She's suppose to replace Gunter for the player in Birthright. This is largely why she lags behind the farther into the game, as this is a staple in most Jagens.
I honestly think hinoka is in the top 4 best royals in fates. She is shit compared to ryoma, xander, and especially camilla, but everyone is. She is tied with leo in usefulness, and barely surpasses him due to leo using magic when magic is mostly shit, she outdoes the healer lolis due to both of them having tinfoil durability and sakura having no perks outside of healing and quickly getting better healers(br Azama), and takumi has the fatal sin of being a sniper with no hunters volley and no good way to get any one range
@@vishwaarun888 Hinoka vs Leo is fairly debatable, magic isn't the best in Fates but Leo has the best tome in the game as well as mixed bulk. Mixed bulk usually sicks in FE, but because of the fact that you face a somewhat equal number of magical and phisical enemies in CQ it becomes very useful since Camilla and Xander are allergic to magic. Hinoka is also very good in BR and REV, but it's kinda hard to decide between her and Leo
@@vanjagalovic3621 Xander may be allergic to magic, but camilla just has average res, and Camilla can patch up her mediocre res using tonics and pair ups, as well as having better avoid
I think my only disagreement with this half of the pegasus knights is that Farina is too high. She only has 6 non-defense maps remaining in the game after she joins. Part of that is FE7's problem for back-loading so many defense maps, but Juno also exists for 6 maps, to put that in perspective. So Farina's availability is pretty bad, in a way. For such a late joiner, her stats are also kind of bad. Her physical bulk is horrendous. She joins at L12 unpromoted with 24 HP! I've found that Farina always comes up annoyingly short on things. Her str is somewhat low and not significantly better than her sisters' despite having a higher growth. 14 base speed is deceptive because she loses AS from everything meaningful and doesn't gain +spd on promotion. Her base AS with a Killer Lance AFTER instant promotion is only 11, the same as base Marcus! She gets an entire defense map to try to catch up, but with her lack of physical power and durability, it's a little hard to really grind her against those wyvern knights (especially because most of them aren't weighed down by Iron Lances in that map). So I would probably drop her to C tier around where FE10 Marcia is. The thing is that unlike Thea, who has a slight availability lead on an amazing flier like Melady, Farina loses availability to Heath, so she doesn't even get to claim that.
You could argue that the triangle attack does kinda make Farina easier to train, and it's not a detriment in the slightest since it entails training two really good unit. Her join chapter also has a bunch of Monks and a Bishop that she can feasibly take care of on her own, but her availability is ultimately the one most significant and painful flaw that no argument can really counter.
what I could not understant, is why farina has better ranking compared to fiora and florina. Just with availability, she should be worst than them, and during her join time, she is worst compared to them, if you trained them just normaly. At the end, she have a bit more strength, but it cost you a lot to have that, and juste it's doesn't make a difference, only for few chapter. Use fiora and florina hector mode only is definitively better I think. But I like farina portrait a lot, so I'm okay with his favoritism edi : oh my bad, it changes his mind, but yeah, farina can't be in the same tier than florina and fiora, for sure
@@juicedkpps Farina's join map is beatable in 2 turns, while you need to take at least 6 turns on the map in order to recruit her. There is a huge buffer for a pretty relaxed clear, and once Farina joins, the map is already over. Triangle attack helps Farina pick up player phase kills, but what she really needs to do to gain EXP quickly in chapter 26 is enemy phase exposure, which she can't do but someone like Heath can do. It also occupies her sisters, who may not want to be tied down to Farina and be doing something else on the map. Even foot units have a grinding advantage on Farina because they at least benefit from terrain, while Farina never does.
The problem with rating child units is that it is so dependent on their parents. My Cynthia was amongst my top 5 units in Awakening - with Aether from Chrom and Galeforce from Sumia, she destroyed everything and hard carried every map she was in. However, someone using different parents and with worse skills might find her difficult to use. Child units are sooooo customisable that their ratings are entirely dependent on how you set them up.
Now that the tier list is complete, I'd like to give my thoughts on Sumia as well as Cordelia in Lunatic+, as that difficulty is sort of my area of expertise. Sumia and Cordelia, IMO, are both A/S tier for the difficulty, and not just because of Galeforce. Sumia has ridiculous Speed and Cordelia's is above average, meaning it doesn't take very long for them to get going and start doubling things - with careful training, Sumia can start doubling in her join chapter and Cordelia can start doubling within a chapter or two of her joining. Obviously they both have flier utility and complete domination over maps with terrain that would be less-than-ideal for foot units. When it comes to Galeforce, I use Sumia (with a Chrom backpack) and Cordelia (with a M!Avatar backpack who sometimes comes to the front) as my main two combat units post-Chapter 8 (with some exceptions that would take a much longer post to explain). Sumia always has Galeforce before chapter 13, allowing Lucina and Cynthia to inherit it off the bat, and Cordelia usually has it 1-2 chapters later, which is fine as I don't recruit Severa and Morgan immediately. This results in *six* Galeforce units who usually have the stats to back it up. But I digress. My point is that with the right investment (as is required for a ton of these units anyway), Sumia and Cordelia (and by extension their kids) may not be god-tier due to their frailty and strength issues, but they're definitely worth considering for your army due to their flier utility, above average to excellent stats, and Galeforce that comes earlier than you think it will.
Cordelia also has access to the Mercenary class via reclass, so she can get Armsrift so shw canuse some strong A rank lances like the Gae Bolg, Luna without them running out, or just stay to become a Hero for better defensive capabilitites
@@ferno056 I'mnot counting infinite reclass, just reclassing to merc once just to get the skill, and it doesn't take that much time Sure it's a bit pointless unless you want to make your units juggernauts, but it's a plus nonetheless
I don't see how you can rate sumia highly at all in lunatic or lunatic+. Her bulk is so bad that she dies in one hit from everything in her joining chapter and has utterly pathetic damage output. She's pretty much useless for all of chapter 3, 4, paralogue 1 and then you have chapter 5 and 7 where she can be useful for flying over cliffs. She can also fly over the deserts in chapters 8 and 9 to help ferry your units along. She also helps out in paralogue 2 to get someone over to the village in time. That's where early game flier utility falls off though. A lot of other awakening chapters require a lot of fighting which sumia is abysmal at. Sure, if you give sumia every single kill in her joining chapter, she might become viable, but that is true of literally 90% of the units in the game. Moreover, Sumia has such fucking awful combat that she won't be able to kill anything. Pavise+ enemies will pretty much make her do 0 damage and vantage+ enemies she can't even attack because they will instantly one shot her. Also, while shes making use of her flier utility and ferrying people around, she isn't gaining any exp. That's not intrinsically bad, but pretending that sumia can get to gaelforce before chapter 13 without insane favouritism is just bonkers. She has to gain at minimum 7 levels and then 15 promoted levels. The earliest master seal you get is in chapter 8, around the middle of the chapter. This means that in 5 chapters, Sumia has to gain 15 promoted levels. What the actual fuck. Seeing as you most likely want to 1 turn chapter 13, you are left with chapters 12, 11 10 and 9 for sumia to gain 15 promoted levels. Sumia absolutely does not have the bulk to frontline in chapter 12, so she'll be relegated to chipping enemies down. Chapter 11 has a lot of enemies with overlapping ranges. She could potentially take out the mages on the right side of the map, but that area is also covered by wyverns that can obliterate her. She's much better at moving other units around in this chapter. Axe units are common in chapter 10, so she's likely going to get blown up if she is left in front of pair up on enemy phase. She's pretty good at flying other units up to the thieves to get treasure though. Chapter 9 shes really good at getting people across the desert, but there are a lot of archers and wyverns that can zone her out from a lot of combat in that map. So, yeah, maybe with a lot of saving and resetting and hoping the RNG goes your way, you could train Sumia by giving her stupid amounts of favouritism. Alternatively, you could train actually good units and just use Sumia for her flier utility. Robin is an obvious choice, but Vaike and Gregor to an extent are capable of becoming reliable combat units if trained. Cordelia joins closer to promotion to falcoknight for rescue chains. You'll also want to give Chrom a bit of exp too. I also want to point out that you gave your units 2 of the best backpacks in the game. Of course they turned out good. Chrom is a superb unit to have in the back due to dual strike + as well as his strong offensive capabilities. His pair up also gives a bunch of speed to the unit he's paired with and charm will help boost their stats too. Robin is robin. This requires so much favouritism. If Sumia is going to double in her join chapter like you said, she is going to need roughly 6 level ups to double the average non armor enemy. It's hard to even give Sumia 6 kills in that chapter let alone 6 whole levels. Even if by some miracle, you were able to give her a bunch of levels, she has 6 base Strength which means she will likely be doing 0x2 damage. 6 base Strength is actually 1 worse than base Sully, that's how shit that is. If you want to try attacking from 1-2 range you can equip kellams 2 might javelin which brins her total attack up to 8. Most enemies have roughly 4 defense in that chapter, so Sumia is doing an incredible 4 damage to enemies if she wants to avoid a counter. Whoop de doo. That's ignoring the fact that aegis and pavise + can spawn on enemies. Lets pretend that everything worked out though, for the sake of the argument. In this context, Lucina is STILL shit because her stats won't be enough to carry her combat, even with an early promotion. Maybe this is true on hard mode, but not on lunatic and certainly not on luna+. If you want to get Cynthia early, you are also forced to get Cordelia to get to an S support to even be able to walk to cynthias map before chapter 18. You did say you were using Cordy, but being forced to use Cordelia just to get Cynthia is a point against Cynthia in my book. Especially seeing as Cynthia's stats are also garbage. But lets pretend that somehow, Chrom and Sumia gained so many levels that Cynthia and Lucina are viable units. How the flying fuck is severa going to see any use at all. I guess having Robin as a parent helps boost her stats a little, but as you are massively favouring Sumia, I don't see Robin getting enough exp to save severa from her own mediocrity. Like, maybe these units might be OK for skipping the kill boss maps, but you could also just have an army of falcoknights rescue chain an actual good combat unit to the boss. In rout maps, you will really suffer as none of the units will really have great combat- and even with strong combat, none of them have the ability to gain any kind of enemy phase healing. So in maps with tons and tons of jacked enemies, your units are going to struggle to do anything. One thing I didn't bring up earlier that it's actually quite hard to train the dark flier class. Javelins are 2 might in this game, as I stated earlier, so trying to kill enemies from 2 range is going to be really hard unless you want to eat a counterattack. Tomes aren't going to be much better with dark flier earning E tomes on promotion. You will pretty much be relying on Chroms attacks for Sumia to be worthwhile. In conclusion, Gaelforce will only come early if you give literally every single kill to your Pegasus Knight. Trying to get 2 Gaelforcers might as well be impossible. Even then, the combat of both pegs is going to be very bad for a very long time and will rely on strong backpacks to actually get anything done whatsoever. I will agree that Sumia and Cordelia are kind of on the same level, but Gaelforce is not coming early, unless you are grinding or using dark flier robin. Both pegs are strong for their speed pair up and flier utlity. They might be able to get to falcoknight later on to help skip kills boss maps.
Honestly, I do believe that Ingrid is an A-Tier. She is a unit that can realistically get Swift Sparrow (Death Blow + Darting Blow) in a fresh, no new game+ playthrough, comes for free at the earliest point in the game possible in Blue Lions. Additionally, she isn't hard to recruit in other routes, has a decent Crest and a very early heroes relic. Simply put, her combat is pretty decent and fliers are really good in Three Houses because of super kanto. And if that isn't enough, she also has a pretty decent spell list with utility spells like Seraphim and Thoron. I do not think someone like Sumia would be capable of putting up with her to be honest
She's kinda awkward. She's at her worst in Blue Lions, due to the ridiculous growths she has when autolevelled, and kinda mediocre growths she has otherwise. This means you have an opportunity cost of either getting an early pegasus that's mediocre, or a midgame pegasus that's beefy. She's definately an upper half unit in 3 houses, but there's a powergap between her and the best non-lord units, and has that bit of awkwardness most units don't.
Swift sparrow isn't unique as any female can do it very reliably. Joining in ch1 isn't necessarily a benefit because almost every character joins immediately in this game and there are some merits to later recruitment. Her crest is not a particularly good one (40% Raises Might by 5 when using combat arts) as this only activates during combat arts. Her hero relic can be used by anyone. Super canto is great but everyone has access to it. It's kind of like "The Incredibles", if everyone is super, no one is. To stand out in 3 houses is hard because you need attributes that separate you from the pack in a game where almost everything is avalible to everyone. Aspects where Ingrid stands out is her unique combat arts. Hexblade and especially frozen lance gives Ingrid an unique way to circumvent her mediocre strength. Hit and run can have some unique applications due to its avoid boost and movement. She also has really good proficiencies. Specifically she lacks any weaknesses allowing her to easily get ranks to reclass and collect masteries. She also has the coveted proficiency in both riding and flying so move+1 and alert stance+ are both easily attainable. Stat wise, she is in fairly unique speed teir having the highest growth in her house, and only matched by 3 other characters.
Opening with the Prelude? And the FFVI version at that? Excellent choice! Now, just to wait for the day you feature some Chrono Trigger OST in one of these..
I like fiddling around with music themes, and committing musical heresy. World Revolution works SO well with either of the Rhea boss battles in 3 Houses. CF a bit better than SS, but really, either one works.
Shigure is good probably mid B-tier because his mom and any father with good strength growth will give him good strength for a Peg Knight and then flying healer utility especially in Conquest is just really good too.
@@RadiantWyvern1 how many dread fighters were on the enemy teams? Like 3? There was the upheaval castle i remember that. You can't beat em with mages bc apotrope so i geuss armors for enemy phase or other dread fighters. Bow knights have more range and can safely use hunters volley from a distance (like behind a wall)
Hinoka is one of the best units in birthright due to her being able to become a falco knight and thus be an 8 mov flying rescue staff user. She's also able to kill a bunch of mid game units with the bolt naginata at base with the right pair ups and bonuses. She can be thought of as akin to a typical warpskip unit but with the added bonus of also having good combat and flying utility. A tier is entirely appropriate for her, with an argument that she can go to S being viable as well. She isn't as good in revelations, however. Not that it really matters, but she's certainly not the worst royal by a long shot. The worst would most likely be birthright Sakura as there really isn't a good reason to deploy her past chapter 8.
Cordelia is way better than Sumia. Her bases are better and Cordelia has much higher strength and defense, making her a better fighter that doesn't die in one hit
Marcia being an extremely valuable unit in 2-3, 2-E (if you don't 1 turn it), and 3-9 may not seem like much, but it's really pretty solid for Radiant Dawn compared to a lot of units. And she can be pretty useful for the remainder of part 3, especially if you maximize your investment in her during the aforementioned chapters (plus 2-P). 3-10 is a rout with lots of ground to cover where she can provide transportation utility in addition to combat. 3-11 is bridge part 2 electric boogaloo, in which you want as many fliers as possible so that you can move over the pitfalls easily. And 3-E has a ton of deployment slots and is another big map with a pseudo-rout condition, and being able to fly over the trees is quite valuable. Then, in part 4, you can send her to the desert, where once again you want all the flyers you can get. Not gonna claim she's a world beater, and she's fallen a long way from her PoR heights, but she's still easily 3/5 stars to me. And as I was writing this, you placed Tanith higher. Can't agree with that at all. If you avoid training Marcia, she won't be as strong as Tanith, sure, but training Marcia is a pretty reasonable thing to do anyway, and either way she's adding value in early chapters when Tanith isn't around. And all of the non-combat utility that Tanith has, Marcia has as well. EDIT: Sigrun ahead of Marcia, too? Gah!
Thought that "Elincia's Gambit" was the first chapter of part two for a second, so when Mekkah said "top tier chapter to be a flier in," I thought "yeah, that IS a good chapter to be a flier in, huh."
I feel like Reina and Hinoka should be swapped since the latter doesn't really bring anything to the table that the former doesn't have aside from 3 chapters of extra availability. Reina has better bases, can reclass into master ninja or mechanist for some of the harder chapters and can also go falcon kinght for staff utility just like Hinoka.
Hinoka is so tanky. She is oboro but with wings and really excels as a mixed type tank. Her stats are definitely on the high end compared to most characters. Definitely one of the best units in birthright.
I never used to use the pegasus knights in Sacred Stones. Eventually, I did use Vanessa and she was pretty good. Tana is kinda annoying to train, but it's not hard, I trained her in a 0% growths run, promoted her before chapter 13A (she's probably worse in Ephraim's route), and she was pretty useful against the generic enemies there as a Wyvern Knight.
You know what would be cool? A Fire Emblem that has enemy scaling like the Arena in the GBA games, so if you have a high-powered army or one stupidly good character, the enemies will scale and even swap out class based on an algorithm takes into account who is powerful and how powerful they are. I would be inclined to make this a separate mode or a three houses styled game though because this would be super hostile to mid-late game growth units. In my opinion, this makes sense logic-wise too. The bad guys would logically adjust to your army's specialty. For instance, if you tried to run solo Seth, the enemy would adapt with lots of lance users and horseslayers.
It is work, but there are people who are incredibly capable of doing it, and Nintendo has the resources for it. Is it likely to happen? Maybe with a genius fan game. IS is much better than Gamefreak when it comes to not cutting corners, but they still do, and this idea would need a director with a grand vision.
I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh. I could see this being ridiculously annoying. For example, if you were to view cavaliers as a "counter" to swordwielders in the system, it'd be really rough. I could also see it being fairly exploitable if a particular "counter" to a class was particularly bad otherwise.
It would need to be well-balanced. No FE10/16 Dracoknights. ×3 damage on effective weapons. The game would need to be playtested for more than just bugs.
I think Ingrid should probably be a little higher. Especially considering Mekkah placed Farina higher. Ingrid is available from the start and can switch into any class including wyvern rider if you want more strength. Farina doesn't really even offer much more utility than her early joining sisters, and she costs money to recruit. Florina is also much worse if you didn't use Lyn mode.
@@juicedkpps they join in ch 14/25. Warps are received in ch 3, 12, 17. Hammerne in ch 20. Warp can be used 18 times before ch 20 and 75 times after. I'm sure mekkah or dondon could find a way.
@@gameboyn64 Oh ok I see. Honestly Warp is really useful in a lot of situations but I think warp-skipping should only be used on maps generally regarded as annoying. I only ever warp-skipped Chapter 23 (or whatever the first-to-last one is) so I found that my units got time to get good, namely Catria.
@@juicedkpps that's how i usually play too. Warp skipping to me kind of feels a little cheap bypassing the entire game with what was most likely unintentional game design.
gameboyn64 FE5 does have a bunch of maps that are worth warp skipping tho, so you can't entirely say that it's cheap to warp-skip when it's used on a map that feels cheap anyway.
Also now that I could actually finish watching the video, I figured I'd throw in my two cents on the kids: Cynthia, like all Awakening kids, has bases that scale with her parent's stats without her own level scaling with it, so if you wait a bit (might as well, considering her paralogue is one of the stronger and higher-leveled ones) she can have ridiculous bases relative to her base level of 10, and she ends up as basically Est but if she actually worked as intended; she starts with low-ish stats compared to the rest of your army (depending also on whether you used both her parents a lot) but low base level for high EXP gain and generally good growths that can make her snowball a lot if you use her, which is made easier by the strong pairup options you have access to at that point of the game. Owing to Sumia's limited support options, she is a bit more limited than most kids in who her father is, but Chrom (or even Robin) works well enough. Overall, she does require some babying to get going like most kids (haha gettit) but can very well catch up to and exceed Sumia once she's there. Shigure in Conquest actually has a niche in that he's the only natural Sky Knight that joins you without requiring reclassing (and even with reclassing, your only options with natural access would be Corrin, who loses Yato, Azura, who loses dancing, and Selena, who starts at E lances). Unlike in Awakening, Paralogues and the base level of child units do scale with story progresson in Fates, so he can't go Turbo Est like Cynthia can, and the kids generally end up with lower weapon levels while their stats aren't even necessarily all that good compared to the rest of your army, so his combat potential is somewhat limited. He can still utilize Kinshi's unique anti-air flier niche which can come in handy in a couple of maps, or you just wait long enough for the Offspring Seal to promote him to Lv5+ Falcon Knight, at which point you get a flying staffbot with the fairly-rare-but-very-useful-in-Conquest Rally Spd for free and you can just use him for pure utility, rally some Spd, drop a Mend when you need to, maybe carry some people places or even just make use of his Spd and Mov pairup bonus whenever convenient. Upside to the latter is that at that point you can just make his dad whoever's left, as his stats almost don't matter for that role. Shigure and Caeldori in BR and Rev are pretty much the same unit, and by extension the same as most other kids especially in Rev: Child unit that performs okay if you want to use them and put some thought in who to make their other parent, can get some funky skills and classes if you want to, they get outclassed by the good units (read: royals) but they're generally serviceable. It's the sandbox games, you can go do sandbox things with them, it'll probably turn out fine. Would prolly put the lot of them in middle to low B to high C, ordered Shigure>Cynthia>Caeldori
Maybe it's just me but I think Cordelia is better than Sumia She only joins like 4 or 5 chapters later with mostly better stats and she can deal pretty well against the wyverns in that chapter while Sumia would just die. Sumia is really fast but after a few level up Cordelia has enough to double.
No, you're not alone on that way of thinking. Cordelia is actually the much better pure Pegasus Knight. She isn't much slower and has higher strength. Cordi is also more well rounded with better physical bulk. Sumia's advantage is that she has more magic which makes her a better Dark Flier but Cordelia is significantly better as a Falcon Knight which should be her endgame class.
@@Juan-zs6jt Not really. You just get what you want from Dark Flier from Cordi and then swap her out to Falcon Knight with a seal. You want Lancefaire from Falconknight for Cordi. She actually can actually hit really hard.
@@Juan-zs6jt I've been through the hell grind that is beating Lunatic+ so I am speaking from my experience. Cordi was significantly better going first into Dark Flier and then finishing in Falconknight. Falconknight's higher speed and skill growths also mitigate the fact that those growths are lower naturally on Cordi than Sumia.
He’s stated that it’s not really a huge set in stone difference. Just wanted to separate it out in two videos bc there are so many fliers to discuss for just one video
Personally, I like Tana more than Vanessa, Tate more than Shanna, and Fiora more than Florina. I find their combat more consistent in my runs, and my playstyle just doesn't rely on their flying utility to do much. Especially with Vanessa, I hardly notice the chapters between getting her and Tana. Chapter 9 is still early game to me.
I lost Vanessa in my ironman and am being forced to use Tana, I like her but I don't know how great she is in this kind of setting but I'm definitely missing Nessa haha
@@thereaIitsybitsyspider The reason is that all Vanessa really needs is to get to level 10, which isn't even hard and promote to wyvern knight and she's pretty much golden. Because of her decent lance rank and low quality of enemies you can just slap a killer lance on her and she'll one round pretty much everything. The reason why Vanessa is prefered over Tana is because of her availability, though if you grind both to level 20/20 then Tana is better.
In my last Sacred Stones run, Vanessa was about level 10 when I recruited Tana, and I realized my Vanessa was utter garbage when I saw that Tana's base stats were about the same as (if not better than) my Vanessa who was 6 levels higher. I ended up using Tana and she actually gained stats when she leveled up, unlike my rng-screwed Vanessa.
Question, does the tier that the unit falls into reflect the tier that they would fall into compared with every other unit from their respective game? Or are you just stratifying the tier list according to how the pegasus knights compare to each other alone? For example, I would say Florina is an A-tier unit in FE7, but a B-tier unit when compared to all the other pegasus knights.
They are mostly meant to compare units to others in their respective games, but since power gaps between other units in other games are so vastly different (and of course because of the way a tier list looks) I still end up comparing them to each other a lot.
Even if people are right that Hinoka is one of the worst royals in Fates, that basically means she's the bottom of the top ten. I couldn't help but laugh when you called 2 Prologue an auto-scroller.
It may or may not be optimal but I usually just train Sumia by pairing with Frederick and get an S Support and Cynthia comes out alright. Just gave her Luna and rally speed and it works out. Except for the time I made Sumia a general and she passed down pavise and had a pretty interesting Cynthia.
Sumia is a common Chrom pairing when Robin is male. This makes both Cynthia very good because her starting stats are based on the level of her parents. And the lord plus his wife will be on the higher side usually. On one of my awakening play throughs, I went Sumia/Chrom, Avatar/Cordelia. It is very doable to get Sumia high enough for galeforce by the time Lucina joins without grinding. Which nets you two more galeforce units in Lucina and Cynthia. If you put effort into Cordiela as well you have Six galeforce units rather early. Again without grinding. This is a viable lunatic strategy. Lunatic is mostly focusing the exp on a few units and Pegasus knights, avatar and lord are good units to focus on. Peg knights are also good for pair ups for speed buffs allowing doubles early for Chrom or Robin. Peg pair ups also gives mobility to Chrom and Robin so finding a time to feed Codi or Sumia kills is not hard. Eventually the exp snowballs and the Pegasus knights are easily killing units on their own and if anything threatens them you switch to Robin or Chrom. Also, I would rate Cordelia slightly better than Sumia. She has better stat growths and better alternative classes to gain skills from.
I honestly liked Reina in Birthright as well as Revelations, I'm generally not a fan of early-mid prepromoted units, but I feel like she's probably the one that I like using the most.
Early game, Sumia has flier mobility and pair up to get units around. Also, her quick support with Chrom (if you're not using F!Robin) patches up her offenses and gives her someone up hide behind when axe units show up, as well as helping his mobility. Late game she's probably your earliest user of Galeforce, which we all know is OP. She can also promote to Falcon (or reclass after Galeforce cos Awakening) for staff utility. She stands out pretty well, and in Awakening when anyone can break the game and Robin solos without breaking a sweat standing out at all means you're high tier.
I don't think Florina's stats would be similar to Fiora's without Lyn mode. She's there for 4 chapters. She can get a few kills on her join chapter, chapter 16. She's a bit limited by the ballista unless you're turtling. Chapter 17 has a bunch of archers so I don't see how she does much at all here. 17x is filled with ax users. She can do well on pirate ship. In addition, she is also fighting really hard for a deployment slot on chapter 17,17x, and 18. Those chapters are very limited on slots compared to the number of good or decent units the game dumps on you in the midgame. I don't see how she can close a 2 strength gap and 4 speed gap (effectively 5 since they both lose speed from basically everything due to their con). Plus a couple points in defense and resistance. I still rank Florina above Fiora because she is very useful before Fiora comes, but I don't see how Fiora isn't significantly better combat-wise.
16: Just kill the first ballista with Marcus. Florina can help him get to it by dropping him across the cliff on turn 1. 17: Almost all the deployment slots should be given to ponies, and Florina has one. The archers can all be killed on player phase, they have trash HP and AS. 17x: This can be flyskipped, your truly by Florina. She doesn't have to fight a single living thing.
@@Juan-zs6jt you're basically saying just clear 2/3 of the map with Marcus. Most of the enemies are between that ledge and the ballista. She doesn't get kills with or without the ballista in your method. On chapter 17, you have to hide her turn 1 because you can't reach the archers. Then she's already positionally behind the rest of your mounted units until you get past Raven. You can't player phase all the archers unless you're going slowly. They're scattered pretty evenly spaced across the map. She can do something there, but the cavs just blow through the map unless you are purposely babying her. edit: Plus in 16, you can't do a 1 turn rescue drop with only 1 rescuer and the same dropper.
I've addressed this in detail in my comment on Mekkah's other tier list video. Florina is fine as far as gaining EXP goes. - In a 3-turn of chapter 16, Florina can get 2 kills while doing her rescue drop utility and staying out of range of the ballista. If you are taking longer, she can get more kills. - In a 7-turn of chapter 17, it's fine if Florina falls behind, because she can help boost Raven to Lucius. In fact, you need her for this in addition to all of your other cavaliers if you want to get all of the treasure. She can get kills set up for her pretty easily as well. 6-turning this map is possible without LM but it requires very favorable RNG to kill some of the enemies in the way, so it's not reasonable, but 7-turning is pretty lenient. Again, if you're going slower, Florina can get more kill EXP. - Florina is basically autodeploy in chapter 17x because not only is she required for a 2-turn strategy, but even in slow strategies, she can pick up the villages for essentially free. So the point is that EXP is not an issue for Florina relative to Fiora, and the supposed difficulties in deploying her or using her on some chapters can be worked around.
once playing birthright, i married subaki and azura really early game for a quick strong shigure and got caeldori cause she was kinda there as well and my little pegasus subaki/shigure/caeldori family line became ridiculously strong cause, by virtue of having high supports and being paired up often, they would just straight up never get hit
Man Fates branching paths make units much harder to judge. In my cq draft playthrough I was able to turn shigure into a decent rally bot with rally speed and defense. Though if I'd gotten Arthur Keaton or Benny I probably could've done strength defense along with his admittedly crappy heal.
Alternative take: The Shadow Dragon pegs, Vanessa, and Tana are all S tier, everyone else is A or lower. This is because they get dragons on promotion, and dragons are inherrantly cooler than pegasus. I was very, very spoiled with FE 8 being my first FE game, and have never quite recovered from the feeling of disappointment that comes with promoting a pegasus knight in any other game.
Unless I missed it I dont you think mentioned anything about RD transfer bonuses, which may not change any placements but could be brought up (considering Florina is considered in both Lyn and Eliwood/Hector mode though more significant). I could see an argument for and against including them, but (reminder bias) I do think theyre pretty good for Marcia. They turn her somewhat ok/bad bases into more decent which can help with her low str growth, and shes likely to max a lot of stats considering her insane growths in PoR, whereas Tanith may not max and Sigrun doesnt even get them as far as I know. She's also available for Mekkah's bridge though Sigrun and Tanith are forced there, but fliers are always good on that chapter You also mentioned crossbows being a huge downside in RD for those fliers, but you can always slap on nullify on them which is basically giving them flying immunity for "free" (as other games typically require an item taking up an item slot), and can be taken off freely if the map doesnt have many archers/no crossbows thank you for coming to my ted talk
One issue when it comes to tiering transfer bonus versions of FE10 characters is agreeing on which transfers to assume. Do we only assume average --/20 stats for their FE9 versions and transfer the capped stats? What about stat boosters that multiple units might want to hit a cap? Do we do fixed mode or random mode? If we do fixed mode, can we use the BEXP exploit to manipulate stats into growing more than they should? If we do random mode, can we RNG abuse +7/+8 stats each level and cap everything theoretically possible? For Tanith specifically, she can be expected to get a spd transfer and sometimes a skl transfer. She needs to get lucky or take an Energy Drop to get a str transfer. If you rig def growths on 9 out of 10 level ups, she can get a def transfer. Unfortunately an HP transfer is pretty unreasonable because she needs 3 Seraph Robes no matter how much you rig. But each of the spd, str, and def transfers greatly helps Tanith in FE10, but aid her to different extents.
the legend You bring up a lot of good points that I didnt consider, that definitely makes this more confusing. _If_ transfers were taken into consideration, I feel like it depends how PoR is played and how RD is going to be played, for example if both are played casually then I think average max level stats in non fixed mode without exploits would be considered since thats "vanilla". Though Mekkah did mention hard mode for RD I think, but from what I can tell he took it from a "casual" standpoint? Or at least, clearing the game semi fast but not LTC. Could be wrong However, this does make me reconsider transfers in a way, that I didnt realize they would be this confusing, but thanks for the response
Final Fantasy 4 ost, nice. My last Birthright playthrough I used Reina. I do find she's incredibly good until lategame where her combat is negligible at best. I consider her a discount Camilla. By the time she falls off, you have Setsuna who doubles everything and always has +8 damage with quick draw and Takumi who is generally strong af. You're not hurting for Kinshi Knights if you want one
Cynthia is really good as far as kids go, and that’s largely because you can basically link your Galeforce investment to Sumia, rather than spend a bunch of time leveling Cynthia to get it herself. This opens up Cynthia to promote into Falcon Knight instead and get Lancefaire, and since her internal level will be lower than her mother’s she’ll likely hit level 15 there even before Sumia does. As far as male parent options go, probably the most popular choice is to pass down Aether to her from Chrom which obviously is a very good skill, but she can also inherit Luna or Dual Guard+ from Frederick pretty easily. If for whatever reason you want to run a Dark Mage Cynthia you can make Henry marry Sumia, but this is a pretty terrible option. Robin and Gaius are also parent options, but I’m avoiding those options since they’re typically reserved in playthroughs to pass down Peg Knight to a unit that doesn’t get it naturally. Then again, this isn’t in the context of a postgame playthrough, so from that perspective passing down Ignis would be almost as good as Aether, and Robin would appreciate the flying backpack from Sumia, so it’s certainly not a bad option.
As far as Awakening (I've played Hard mode without grinding twice recently, but not Lunatic), I think that non-Robin Dark Fliers can reasonably get Galeforce by about chapter 18-19 (earlier can be achieved by doing children paralogues), so I definitely agree the usefulness of Galeforce is overrated (definitely still something to prioritize though as it helps those last 7 or so chapters a lot). As for Sumia vs Cordelia, I find that Sumia tends to struggle with strength a lot, and this isn't helped by her inability to support someone Vaike. Also, I don't think Sumia contributes much in the 3 chapters she's in before Cordelia shows up.
Galeforce is not reasonably obtainable for multiple pegasi on HM, there is not enough exp. Sumia can support with Frederick, those pair up bonuses give her defense and strength, and the support bonuses give her extra durability and kill power.
Sumia overall is much weaker than Cordelia in strength, reasonably even in magic however , Cordelia is better in growths and just better overall, sumia is still useful as well but primary Pegasus knight always went to cordy
@@Juan-zs6jt While I do think three 1st gen Galeforcers is the maximum (hard mode without grinding), I do think it is reasonably obtainable for those three. Heck, I did it by chapter 20 without any planning in an iron man, despite not playing the game for years. Also, as for the Sumia-Frederick thing, hiding Frederick behind Sumia or vice versa doesn't seem very good to me (except in maybe chapters 8 and 9 because they're desert maps so Frederick has nothing better to do than catch a ride with Sumia. Also, Sumia might hit some additional strength benchmarks with a Frederick pair up, but I still think it's probably not worthwhile in the long run. However, I will say that I haven't really experimented with this much so I could be completely wrong on this point.
@@Philip-ik7zf Yeah, I think Sumia's greatest strength over Cordelia is that she could potentially promote faster, so she'll be able to do significant damage with magic for the first arc. Personally, after the first arc I try to feed kills to her so that she can get Galeforce and reclass to Falcon Knight for Rescue (the extra magic Sumia has makes her better at this than others, but I always reclass fliers to Falcon Knight if they already have Galeforce regardless of their magic stat anyway)
@@bagfaceman1656 Don't you only get 2 horse healers per gen? 1 being locked behind promotion (Master Knights) and the other gen 1 horse healer leaves part way through (Ethlyn) could be missing someone but-
He changed his mind, most likely. And I kind of agree. FE12 Palla is just a really strong peg knight without much else to her, while Caeda can also be a really strong peg knight, but she also has a unique utility that plays ball very well with FE11's design.
Shigure: difficult to get if you are playing optimally, as azura has a hard time getting supports with people other than the ones she sings for, but even then, fates kids are just not very good. They tend to be worse versions of their parents, and the only surefire way you can make them relevant is by either having their mom be camilla, or waiting until you get offspring seals, which i believe is chapter 16 and onwards, roughly. Of course you can always have him be a staffbot, but as mentioned below, capture is a thing in this game, and you can capture an enemy falcoknight (which have pass and maxed ranks in lunatic in ch 24) or really any other unit that would make a good staffbot. Cynthia: Being sumia's daughter, she is actually one of the easiest children to get in awakening. Out of chrom's possible wives he'll likely marry sumia, olivia or fem robin, so it's fairly plausible you already have her paralogue unlocked before you know it. Even if sumia does not marry chrom though, she has other good pairup candidates- frederick or kellam being 2 of them, which are both available early. i'd say it's pretty feasible for sumia to be married by the time you unlock cynthia's paralogue, completing it though? that's another story. As for cynthia herself, her best parent is frederick imo, as she gets wyvern rider/lord from him. she still gets paladin from chrom if you want that though. Her growth rates are good, (but then again, what's new about that in awakening) since she joins at level 10, you can promote her instantly, but she may have trouble catching up depending on when you recruit her. Caeldori: i have not used her much, specially in revelation, as she is eclipsed by the many flier options you have. judging by BR's roster i'd say she does not have much to offer other than her wings, and maybe a staff? i guess you can make her good if you wait until she gets good levels out of offspring seals. Reina: is a flier with a bow, prepromoted with good bases, though her class bases and growths are not very good when compared to the rest. *her growths are still good* though she falls off. she could use a different class with better stats, but for that you need to either have male corrin marry her, or give her a dread fighter seal from DLC.
One neat thing about FE4 Pegasus Knights is that their promotion can use staves, though I don't think their default staff rank is amazingly high, and Fee probably needs Claude to make the most of it. I don't think I've ever had much luck with Thea, which is sad since I like all the blue haired and middle sibling pegasus knights and she's usually one of the weaker ones. At least she's not Juno. Farina is neat because she comes on a map pretty much tailor made to train her, and basically ready to promote whenever you feel like, Funds Rank is a massive headache in that game though so some might use that as a point against her if they like doing ranked runs, you can manage if you're good but . Tana remind me of Shadow Dragon Catria, she comes a bit late for her stats but it's still workable(and FE8 has Creature Campaign to help make up for getting Tana somewhat late). FE8 Pegasi being able to promote to Wyvern Knights is also neat, just watch out for the Luna glitch when using javelins against bulky enemies twice in a row. Tanith is absolutely nuts in FE9 because of Reinforcements of the Army, crazy evade between her speed and Earth support and having enough magic to actually make use of the elemental weapons, her only real issue is having to wait until the second half of the game to use her. Elincia is not so lucky in that game since she gets only 4 maps to make use of her and starts at level 1. But thankfully her staff rank is absurd to ensure she'll always have something to do if you do decide to use her. She'll probably have to start as a staffbot for a bit before she gets enough strength to make good use of Amiti, which she thankfully starts out with as well. FE10 Pegasi look bad compared to wyverns since the latter don't have a bow weakness and thunder magic isn't common enough to be scary for them that often, it also doesn't help that most of them don't show up in too many maps compared to the likes of Jill and Haar who can cover like 90% of the game between them. Again, I don't think I'd call Cordelia late if you're not grinding, and she probably gets more value out her merc line than Galeforce in a "standard" playthrough. Hinoka is a good flier that shows up not all that late and starts with Guard Naginata, which is a neat weapon that might maybe get traded around with Oboro until you can buy another one(assuming you don't forge it). Her personal skill isn't as strong an effect as Camilla's but has an easier range to work with and more damage always hurts the enemy more. Fates and Awakening kids are just annoying to rate because of how variable they can be thanks to what their parents can offer them, but their maps are usually worth doing even if you take too long to need to make use of the kids(and Fates DOES give them autolevel items at least). And yeah Galeforce comes super late if you're not passing it down or using Dark Fliers for everything, which can be annoying since it's a weaker class statwise than Falcoknight to make up for tome access. Reina is cool because even though Kinshi have relatively weak stats, they get some cool skills like Air Superiority as a mini breaker vs. fliers and Amaterasu to heal a bunch of allies with. She also has a mini Lifetaker effect for killing things.
Love these tierlists as ever, Mekkah! Agreed on most of the placements, but... C-rank? Sorry, Ferrynris couldn't hear you over the anguished screams of all the Orgahill pirates she shamelessly robbed in chapter 3. If you get her to promote by the start of chapter 4, she'll be your highest-mobility staff user (assuming Raquesis isn't promoted yet), giving her healing and return utility. And in chapter 5, she's uniquely capable of taking on Meteor mages in the Yied Desert. Genealogy maps have varied enough terrain and side objectives that there's always something for fliers to be doing. I would put her in B-tier; she should at least be better than Farina and the RD Falcoknights. And of the FE4 pegasi, Fee is definitely better, partly due to inheritance (potentially starting out with the Brave Lance), partly due to availability. I'd call them both B-tier; Fee towards the front, Erinys near the back. Then again, these are the ramblings of someone with less FE experience than you, so take them with a chug of Vulnerary. Thanks for reading!
Reina's basically where Revelation turns from absolute garbage to a playable Fire Emblem experience. So many map gimmicks can be outright ignored because of flight, and she gets even better availability than Camilla. Right from the start, she ignores the spikes/forest walls of her join chapter, gets to fly anywhere you want and enable a 1 turn clear of the Camilla/Flora boat map when everyone else is normally locked to the boats until Corrin remembers he can use dragon veins several turns in, and Reina's contributions throughout the entire game are a Godsend. Also helps that she's a prepromote with good bases, and excellent offensive growths. Her def/res/hp don't really go far without statboosters, but that's hardly even a concern when most of Revelations' map gimmicks work against the enemies as well, since your fliers can often skip them or easily limit how many enemies and damage they take. If it weren't for Reina (and Camilla/later joining fliers), I'd actually agree with most in saying Revelation is an unplayable garbage fire. As it is, most of my issues with it stem from every map before Reina joins.
First Xenoblade music, and now FF music... If you take recommendations for chill jrpg ost:s to put in these videos, I think Dragon Quest would have a lot of very fitting background music for these kinds of videos (e.g. "The Observatory", "Homeland" or the like)
I think RD Tanith is generally underrated. She's essential in the chapter she joins, she has good strength and can even cap it. The chapter she joins, you get a ton of bonus experience and can easily promote her right there. Her biggest downside is that she can't SS swords for Alondite in the endgame. What helps her over the others is that she actually has a good chance of capping strength, and Falconknights have desirable caps in the endgame where she's available.
The biggest case for Sigrun over Tanith is that she is auto-deployed, so you can benefit from her utility for free, but she is still, in my opinion, the 4th best flier behind Haar, Tibarn, and Elincia, and the best endgame Beorc flier for combat.
The problem is that she joins really late and at a point where 20 str and 23 spd isn't really cutting it. In the 3-p, 8/11 of the greil mercenaries have equal or superior atk and 3/11 of the greil mercenaries have equal or superior spd.
That is true, she is a little behind the pack. What puts her forward for me is the context in which she exists: -Arrives with a bucketload of BEXP -She quickly catches up due to her great offensive growths -Almost of the maps she is available on are maps where Fliers are particularly good -Her caps are relevant for the endgame where she is one of a few units that can reliably double everything. Haar and Titania unfortunately fall short of this. I'm not saying she's a god-tier unit throughout the game, I'm saying she's one of a handful of units that have a statistical edge going into the endgame, and of those, she is one of the easiest to train.
With Erin, you knock her for not making use of roads, but she faces no impediments in Ch 4, where are no roads between your castle and everything else. Also, she can be useful for helping out Brigit and friends in Ch 3. I agree she is C-tier but definitely not only good for getting villages.
There are definitely roads between all the castles in Ch4. There's more terrain though so occasionally she might be able to catch up a bit/pull ahead. I like her ability to take out Blizzard Mages there, though again I think it's kind of minor. As for Brigid and Tailtu/Claude, the areas they started in are designed so that they can get out alive by themselves with some fairly trivial moves (no advanced AI tricks or anything). Erynes can help out a bit but it's not exactly the level of flier utility that other fliers deliver.
@@Mekkkah My memory was hazy re: ch 4... I just looked at the map and you are right that there are a lot of road tiles leading to northeast castle. So I stand corrected! But getting to the southwest castle, everyone else has to traverse the mountains, so I wonder if she can be put to good use there. But IIRC, she's not tough enough to face the enemy armies on her own. IDK, I'll have to pay attention to her next time.
tsubaki in BR is pretty great actually. revelations has the habit of making good units bad so i thought i should note that he's available from the first birthright chapter and just does the flier thing where he is good because he can fly. in a casual playthrough you might replace him with his daughter and just us him as a pair up bot for her because he falls off halfway through. this is my experience, but id say in BR he gets a B from me
Syrene is just funny so you can ungu bungu Triangle Vidofnir the endgame bosses. But she sucks. In a game where you get a prologue unit who can with just a dracoshield fight the demon king from base, she is disappointing.
When's the highly anticipated mini-Jagen tier list coming?
thewingedbacon who’s going in that list lol? Oswin and Nolan are the only 2 I can think of at the moment
@@princeofpeace6432 FE5 Finn I know, maybe FE6 Dieck?
@@princeofpeace6432 Just ask Mangs.
But I would probably put FE2 Luka, FE4 Quan, FE4 Finn (gen 2), FE5 Finn, FE6 Dieck, FE7 Oswin, FE10 Nolan, the avatars, FE14 Jakob/Felicia(?) and the FE16 Lords.
@@Dr_Goog Jakob and Felicia? Do they count?
@@meggy8875 I could see that... I'm not very familiar with Fates. Jakob was glued to Corrin's back in my runs, but I heard he is also really useful as a Paladin. I'll add them to the list.
The thing about Reina is she's actually a Flier Jagen. She's suppose to replace Gunter for the player in Birthright. This is largely why she lags behind the farther into the game, as this is a staple in most Jagens.
''I tiered all these girls in the first part'' -> Cries in Subaki
Subaki hits like a girl
@@CarbonMalite Considering Camilla's strength stat, that feels like an insult to girls
@@vanjagalovic3621 Camilla hits like a woman, if that's any consolation
Subaki best girl (?)
Meme unit tier list please, also magical girl tier list
Ronan S+ tier
YEESSSS PLS
@@felipefreitag4867
Truly, Ronan is the best magical girl
meme unit tier list:
S: Ronan, Seth
A: Batta, Glass, Lester, Leif, Mekkah
B: Tim Horton's, Azura, Nomah
C: Mangs, Lute, Ross
D: Fire Emblem 7 Guide Book
E: Lyn, Fire Emblem 678 Gamefaqs characters Guide
F: Amelia, Fire Emblem Wikia
IM A MEME UNIT
0:13 Subaki is so perfect he has mastered the art of gender bender.
In fairness, he hits like a little bitch, so I think it's fine.
trans rights
The "Hinoka is the worst royal" argument is just "Isadora is the worst paladin" with a different coat of paint
Why does it even exist? Sakura and her E staffs give her exclusive access to the worst royal title
I honestly think hinoka is in the top 4 best royals in fates. She is shit compared to ryoma, xander, and especially camilla, but everyone is. She is tied with leo in usefulness, and barely surpasses him due to leo using magic when magic is mostly shit, she outdoes the healer lolis due to both of them having tinfoil durability and sakura having no perks outside of healing and quickly getting better healers(br Azama), and takumi has the fatal sin of being a sniper with no hunters volley and no good way to get any one range
@@vishwaarun888 Hinoka vs Leo is fairly debatable, magic isn't the best in Fates but Leo has the best tome in the game as well as mixed bulk. Mixed bulk usually sicks in FE, but because of the fact that you face a somewhat equal number of magical and phisical enemies in CQ it becomes very useful since Camilla and Xander are allergic to magic.
Hinoka is also very good in BR and REV, but it's kinda hard to decide between her and Leo
@@vanjagalovic3621 Xander may be allergic to magic, but camilla just has average res, and Camilla can patch up her mediocre res using tonics and pair ups, as well as having better avoid
Vishwa Arun
Sakura beats elise with her marginally better defense and hp
“Tanith is one of my favorites” at least Mekkah has good taste
Sephiroth is my favorite pegasus knight.
Masamune the 1-2 sword
The soundtrack made me want to replay FF7. I don't know if the nostalgia was the intent.
Impressive tier list as always! An Axe Fighter (Orsin, Halvan, Barst) tier list would be nice to see too since I don't think that has been done yet.
Orsin is going to clean house.
@@SuperZez barst too.
I think my only disagreement with this half of the pegasus knights is that Farina is too high. She only has 6 non-defense maps remaining in the game after she joins. Part of that is FE7's problem for back-loading so many defense maps, but Juno also exists for 6 maps, to put that in perspective. So Farina's availability is pretty bad, in a way.
For such a late joiner, her stats are also kind of bad. Her physical bulk is horrendous. She joins at L12 unpromoted with 24 HP! I've found that Farina always comes up annoyingly short on things. Her str is somewhat low and not significantly better than her sisters' despite having a higher growth. 14 base speed is deceptive because she loses AS from everything meaningful and doesn't gain +spd on promotion. Her base AS with a Killer Lance AFTER instant promotion is only 11, the same as base Marcus!
She gets an entire defense map to try to catch up, but with her lack of physical power and durability, it's a little hard to really grind her against those wyvern knights (especially because most of them aren't weighed down by Iron Lances in that map). So I would probably drop her to C tier around where FE10 Marcia is. The thing is that unlike Thea, who has a slight availability lead on an amazing flier like Melady, Farina loses availability to Heath, so she doesn't even get to claim that.
You could argue that the triangle attack does kinda make Farina easier to train, and it's not a detriment in the slightest since it entails training two really good unit. Her join chapter also has a bunch of Monks and a Bishop that she can feasibly take care of on her own, but her availability is ultimately the one most significant and painful flaw that no argument can really counter.
what I could not understant, is why farina has better ranking compared to fiora and florina. Just with availability, she should be worst than them, and during her join time, she is worst compared to them, if you trained them just normaly. At the end, she have a bit more strength, but it cost you a lot to have that, and juste it's doesn't make a difference, only for few chapter. Use fiora and florina hector mode only is definitively better I think.
But I like farina portrait a lot, so I'm okay with his favoritism
edi : oh my bad, it changes his mind, but yeah, farina can't be in the same tier than florina and fiora, for sure
@@juicedkpps Farina's join map is beatable in 2 turns, while you need to take at least 6 turns on the map in order to recruit her. There is a huge buffer for a pretty relaxed clear, and once Farina joins, the map is already over.
Triangle attack helps Farina pick up player phase kills, but what she really needs to do to gain EXP quickly in chapter 26 is enemy phase exposure, which she can't do but someone like Heath can do. It also occupies her sisters, who may not want to be tied down to Farina and be doing something else on the map. Even foot units have a grinding advantage on Farina because they at least benefit from terrain, while Farina never does.
dondon151 Fair points.
Dark Mage Tier List would be cool.
Yo FF music hell yea
On this episode of “She’s a little better than Clair”.
First Xenoblade music and now Final fantasy music? I cant pay attention like this
The problem with rating child units is that it is so dependent on their parents. My Cynthia was amongst my top 5 units in Awakening - with Aether from Chrom and Galeforce from Sumia, she destroyed everything and hard carried every map she was in. However, someone using different parents and with worse skills might find her difficult to use. Child units are sooooo customisable that their ratings are entirely dependent on how you set them up.
Now that the tier list is complete, I'd like to give my thoughts on Sumia as well as Cordelia in Lunatic+, as that difficulty is sort of my area of expertise.
Sumia and Cordelia, IMO, are both A/S tier for the difficulty, and not just because of Galeforce. Sumia has ridiculous Speed and Cordelia's is above average, meaning it doesn't take very long for them to get going and start doubling things - with careful training, Sumia can start doubling in her join chapter and Cordelia can start doubling within a chapter or two of her joining. Obviously they both have flier utility and complete domination over maps with terrain that would be less-than-ideal for foot units.
When it comes to Galeforce, I use Sumia (with a Chrom backpack) and Cordelia (with a M!Avatar backpack who sometimes comes to the front) as my main two combat units post-Chapter 8 (with some exceptions that would take a much longer post to explain). Sumia always has Galeforce before chapter 13, allowing Lucina and Cynthia to inherit it off the bat, and Cordelia usually has it 1-2 chapters later, which is fine as I don't recruit Severa and Morgan immediately. This results in *six* Galeforce units who usually have the stats to back it up.
But I digress. My point is that with the right investment (as is required for a ton of these units anyway), Sumia and Cordelia (and by extension their kids) may not be god-tier due to their frailty and strength issues, but they're definitely worth considering for your army due to their flier utility, above average to excellent stats, and Galeforce that comes earlier than you think it will.
Yeah I agree the two of them are two sides of the same coin. Their just as good as one another.
Cordelia also has access to the Mercenary class via reclass, so she can get Armsrift so shw canuse some strong A rank lances like the Gae Bolg, Luna without them running out, or just stay to become a Hero for better defensive capabilitites
@@chrisf.9595 I think Mekkah was rating them without considering reclassing cause if we're being honest, reclassing was broken in awakening.
@@ferno056
I'mnot counting infinite reclass, just reclassing to merc once just to get the skill, and it doesn't take that much time
Sure it's a bit pointless unless you want to make your units juggernauts, but it's a plus nonetheless
I don't see how you can rate sumia highly at all in lunatic or lunatic+. Her bulk is so bad that she dies in one hit from everything in her joining chapter and has utterly pathetic damage output. She's pretty much useless for all of chapter 3, 4, paralogue 1 and then you have chapter 5 and 7 where she can be useful for flying over cliffs. She can also fly over the deserts in chapters 8 and 9 to help ferry your units along. She also helps out in paralogue 2 to get someone over to the village in time.
That's where early game flier utility falls off though. A lot of other awakening chapters require a lot of fighting which sumia is abysmal at.
Sure, if you give sumia every single kill in her joining chapter, she might become viable, but that is true of literally 90% of the units in the game.
Moreover, Sumia has such fucking awful combat that she won't be able to kill anything. Pavise+ enemies will pretty much make her do 0 damage and vantage+ enemies she can't even attack because they will instantly one shot her.
Also, while shes making use of her flier utility and ferrying people around, she isn't gaining any exp. That's not intrinsically bad, but pretending that sumia can get to gaelforce before chapter 13 without insane favouritism is just bonkers. She has to gain at minimum 7 levels and then 15 promoted levels. The earliest master seal you get is in chapter 8, around the middle of the chapter. This means that in 5 chapters, Sumia has to gain 15 promoted levels.
What the actual fuck.
Seeing as you most likely want to 1 turn chapter 13, you are left with chapters 12, 11 10 and 9 for sumia to gain 15 promoted levels.
Sumia absolutely does not have the bulk to frontline in chapter 12, so she'll be relegated to chipping enemies down. Chapter 11 has a lot of enemies with overlapping ranges. She could potentially take out the mages on the right side of the map, but that area is also covered by wyverns that can obliterate her. She's much better at moving other units around in this chapter.
Axe units are common in chapter 10, so she's likely going to get blown up if she is left in front of pair up on enemy phase. She's pretty good at flying other units up to the thieves to get treasure though. Chapter 9 shes really good at getting people across the desert, but there are a lot of archers and wyverns that can zone her out from a lot of combat in that map.
So, yeah, maybe with a lot of saving and resetting and hoping the RNG goes your way, you could train Sumia by giving her stupid amounts of favouritism. Alternatively, you could train actually good units and just use Sumia for her flier utility. Robin is an obvious choice, but Vaike and Gregor to an extent are capable of becoming reliable combat units if trained. Cordelia joins closer to promotion to falcoknight for rescue chains. You'll also want to give Chrom a bit of exp too.
I also want to point out that you gave your units 2 of the best backpacks in the game. Of course they turned out good. Chrom is a superb unit to have in the back due to dual strike + as well as his strong offensive capabilities. His pair up also gives a bunch of speed to the unit he's paired with and charm will help boost their stats too.
Robin is robin.
This requires so much favouritism. If Sumia is going to double in her join chapter like you said, she is going to need roughly 6 level ups to double the average non armor enemy. It's hard to even give Sumia 6 kills in that chapter let alone 6 whole levels. Even if by some miracle, you were able to give her a bunch of levels, she has 6 base Strength which means she will likely be doing 0x2 damage.
6 base Strength is actually 1 worse than base Sully, that's how shit that is. If you want to try attacking from 1-2 range you can equip kellams 2 might javelin which brins her total attack up to 8. Most enemies have roughly 4 defense in that chapter, so Sumia is doing an incredible 4 damage to enemies if she wants to avoid a counter. Whoop de doo. That's ignoring the fact that aegis and pavise + can spawn on enemies.
Lets pretend that everything worked out though, for the sake of the argument. In this context, Lucina is STILL shit because her stats won't be enough to carry her combat, even with an early promotion. Maybe this is true on hard mode, but not on lunatic and certainly not on luna+. If you want to get Cynthia early, you are also forced to get Cordelia to get to an S support to even be able to walk to cynthias map before chapter 18. You did say you were using Cordy, but being forced to use Cordelia just to get Cynthia is a point against Cynthia in my book.
Especially seeing as Cynthia's stats are also garbage.
But lets pretend that somehow, Chrom and Sumia gained so many levels that Cynthia and Lucina are viable units.
How the flying fuck is severa going to see any use at all. I guess having Robin as a parent helps boost her stats a little, but as you are massively favouring Sumia, I don't see Robin getting enough exp to save severa from her own mediocrity.
Like, maybe these units might be OK for skipping the kill boss maps, but you could also just have an army of falcoknights rescue chain an actual good combat unit to the boss. In rout maps, you will really suffer as none of the units will really have great combat- and even with strong combat, none of them have the ability to gain any kind of enemy phase healing. So in maps with tons and tons of jacked enemies, your units are going to struggle to do anything.
One thing I didn't bring up earlier that it's actually quite hard to train the dark flier class. Javelins are 2 might in this game, as I stated earlier, so trying to kill enemies from 2 range is going to be really hard unless you want to eat a counterattack. Tomes aren't going to be much better with dark flier earning E tomes on promotion. You will pretty much be relying on Chroms attacks for Sumia to be worthwhile.
In conclusion, Gaelforce will only come early if you give literally every single kill to your Pegasus Knight. Trying to get 2 Gaelforcers might as well be impossible. Even then, the combat of both pegs is going to be very bad for a very long time and will rely on strong backpacks to actually get anything done whatsoever. I will agree that Sumia and Cordelia are kind of on the same level, but Gaelforce is not coming early, unless you are grinding or using dark flier robin. Both pegs are strong for their speed pair up and flier utlity. They might be able to get to falcoknight later on to help skip kills boss maps.
Trying to get Misha in FE5 was one of the most hair-pulling experience I had. At least she pulled her weight.
until trying to get xavier and the silver card, in the very next chapter
@@joaomesquita3069 good thing i skipped xavier ;)
I wouldn’t know, I was off enjoying B route!
*cries in forest warp tiles & ballista hell*
@joaomesquita3069 I just said F it to the Member Card. I recruited Xavier and honestly. With a sleep sword and Nanna's rewarp. It wasn't bad.
"You get galeforce SO late in the game."
Mekkah, you sweet summer child.
Lmao dlc gang
You should do a Troll Emblem tier list
thats gonna be a huge bottom tier
lull get troled
I’d personally be interested in a list covering other cavaliers/paladins, such as Luke/Roderick, Clive, Mathilda, Geoffrey, Perceval, etc.
Honestly, I do believe that Ingrid is an A-Tier. She is a unit that can realistically get Swift Sparrow (Death Blow + Darting Blow) in a fresh, no new game+ playthrough, comes for free at the earliest point in the game possible in Blue Lions. Additionally, she isn't hard to recruit in other routes, has a decent Crest and a very early heroes relic. Simply put, her combat is pretty decent and fliers are really good in Three Houses because of super kanto. And if that isn't enough, she also has a pretty decent spell list with utility spells like Seraphim and Thoron. I do not think someone like Sumia would be capable of putting up with her to be honest
She's kinda awkward.
She's at her worst in Blue Lions, due to the ridiculous growths she has when autolevelled, and kinda mediocre growths she has otherwise.
This means you have an opportunity cost of either getting an early pegasus that's mediocre, or a midgame pegasus that's beefy.
She's definately an upper half unit in 3 houses, but there's a powergap between her and the best non-lord units, and has that bit of awkwardness most units don't.
Swift sparrow isn't unique as any female can do it very reliably. Joining in ch1 isn't necessarily a benefit because almost every character joins immediately in this game and there are some merits to later recruitment. Her crest is not a particularly good one (40% Raises Might by 5 when using combat arts) as this only activates during combat arts. Her hero relic can be used by anyone. Super canto is great but everyone has access to it. It's kind of like "The Incredibles", if everyone is super, no one is. To stand out in 3 houses is hard because you need attributes that separate you from the pack in a game where almost everything is avalible to everyone.
Aspects where Ingrid stands out is her unique combat arts. Hexblade and especially frozen lance gives Ingrid an unique way to circumvent her mediocre strength. Hit and run can have some unique applications due to its avoid boost and movement. She also has really good proficiencies. Specifically she lacks any weaknesses allowing her to easily get ranks to reclass and collect masteries. She also has the coveted proficiency in both riding and flying so move+1 and alert stance+ are both easily attainable. Stat wise, she is in fairly unique speed teir having the highest growth in her house, and only matched by 3 other characters.
Marcia looks suspiciously like Est, and is up there next to Palla, Catria, and Caeda. Coincidence?
Maybe she is the reincarnation of Est? Her spirit unsatisfied that she was always a bad unit.
Opening with the Prelude? And the FFVI version at that? Excellent choice! Now, just to wait for the day you feature some Chrono Trigger OST in one of these..
I like fiddling around with music themes, and committing musical heresy.
World Revolution works SO well with either of the Rhea boss battles in 3 Houses. CF a bit better than SS, but really, either one works.
Always being one point short of strength or speed shall henceforth be known as Forde syndrome.
Shigure is good probably mid B-tier because his mom and any father with good strength growth will give him good strength for a Peg Knight and then flying healer utility especially in Conquest is just really good too.
I just got told palla and catria in echoes are terrible bc "they cant combat dread fighters"
Nobody can actually combat those guys tho.
@@RadiantWyvern1 hunter's volley
@@mtj8870 That's only on player phase though.
@@RadiantWyvern1 how many dread fighters were on the enemy teams? Like 3? There was the upheaval castle i remember that. You can't beat em with mages bc apotrope so i geuss armors for enemy phase or other dread fighters. Bow knights have more range and can safely use hunters volley from a distance (like behind a wall)
@@mtj8870 Okay, but that doesn't discredit how good Palla and Catria are.
Hinoka is one of the best units in birthright due to her being able to become a falco knight and thus be an 8 mov flying rescue staff user. She's also able to kill a bunch of mid game units with the bolt naginata at base with the right pair ups and bonuses. She can be thought of as akin to a typical warpskip unit but with the added bonus of also having good combat and flying utility. A tier is entirely appropriate for her, with an argument that she can go to S being viable as well. She isn't as good in revelations, however.
Not that it really matters, but she's certainly not the worst royal by a long shot. The worst would most likely be birthright Sakura as there really isn't a good reason to deploy her past chapter 8.
I forgot all about Rescue lmao.
holy crap is that the Awakening from FFVI that I'm hearing?Niiiiiice
Cordelia is way better than Sumia. Her bases are better and Cordelia has much higher strength and defense, making her a better fighter that doesn't die in one hit
Travis Vinay thank you someone who thinks cordy is better
Marcia being an extremely valuable unit in 2-3, 2-E (if you don't 1 turn it), and 3-9 may not seem like much, but it's really pretty solid for Radiant Dawn compared to a lot of units. And she can be pretty useful for the remainder of part 3, especially if you maximize your investment in her during the aforementioned chapters (plus 2-P). 3-10 is a rout with lots of ground to cover where she can provide transportation utility in addition to combat. 3-11 is bridge part 2 electric boogaloo, in which you want as many fliers as possible so that you can move over the pitfalls easily. And 3-E has a ton of deployment slots and is another big map with a pseudo-rout condition, and being able to fly over the trees is quite valuable. Then, in part 4, you can send her to the desert, where once again you want all the flyers you can get.
Not gonna claim she's a world beater, and she's fallen a long way from her PoR heights, but she's still easily 3/5 stars to me.
And as I was writing this, you placed Tanith higher. Can't agree with that at all. If you avoid training Marcia, she won't be as strong as Tanith, sure, but training Marcia is a pretty reasonable thing to do anyway, and either way she's adding value in early chapters when Tanith isn't around. And all of the non-combat utility that Tanith has, Marcia has as well.
EDIT: Sigrun ahead of Marcia, too? Gah!
Thought that "Elincia's Gambit" was the first chapter of part two for a second, so when Mekkah said "top tier chapter to be a flier in," I thought "yeah, that IS a good chapter to be a flier in, huh."
Not having to care about gravity is pretty important in that chapter to avoid falling to your death and taking unnecessary losses.
Final Fantasy music in the beginning is so euphoric. Love it
I feel like Reina and Hinoka should be swapped since the latter doesn't really bring anything to the table that the former doesn't have aside from 3 chapters of extra availability. Reina has better bases, can reclass into master ninja or mechanist for some of the harder chapters and can also go falcon kinght for staff utility just like Hinoka.
Fantastic music in this tier list, Mekkah! Great picks.
Hinoka is so tanky. She is oboro but with wings and really excels as a mixed type tank. Her stats are definitely on the high end compared to most characters. Definitely one of the best units in birthright.
I never used to use the pegasus knights in Sacred Stones. Eventually, I did use Vanessa and she was pretty good. Tana is kinda annoying to train, but it's not hard, I trained her in a 0% growths run, promoted her before chapter 13A (she's probably worse in Ephraim's route), and she was pretty useful against the generic enemies there as a Wyvern Knight.
You know what would be cool? A Fire Emblem that has enemy scaling like the Arena in the GBA games, so if you have a high-powered army or one stupidly good character, the enemies will scale and even swap out class based on an algorithm takes into account who is powerful and how powerful they are. I would be inclined to make this a separate mode or a three houses styled game though because this would be super hostile to mid-late game growth units.
In my opinion, this makes sense logic-wise too. The bad guys would logically adjust to your army's specialty. For instance, if you tried to run solo Seth, the enemy would adapt with lots of lance users and horseslayers.
It certainly is a cool idea but it's probably near impossible/too much work for ISIS
It is work, but there are people who are incredibly capable of doing it, and Nintendo has the resources for it.
Is it likely to happen? Maybe with a genius fan game. IS is much better than Gamefreak when it comes to not cutting corners, but they still do, and this idea would need a director with a grand vision.
I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh. I could see this being ridiculously annoying. For example, if you were to view cavaliers as a "counter" to swordwielders in the system, it'd be really rough. I could also see it being fairly exploitable if a particular "counter" to a class was particularly bad otherwise.
It would need to be well-balanced. No FE10/16 Dracoknights. ×3 damage on effective weapons. The game would need to be playtested for more than just bugs.
I think Ingrid should probably be a little higher. Especially considering Mekkah placed Farina higher. Ingrid is available from the start and can switch into any class including wyvern rider if you want more strength. Farina doesn't really even offer much more utility than her early joining sisters, and she costs money to recruit. Florina is also much worse if you didn't use Lyn mode.
My favourite part about this video is the gorgeous Final Fantasy 7/9 music 😍
Theives tier list! Theif, rogues, assassins maybe
I'm glad you brought up warpless shadow dragon runs. It gets kind of old when everything is like "but i could use the WARP STAFF".
Do you even have enough warp staves to completely warp-skip after Palla and Catria join tho?
@@juicedkpps they join in ch 14/25. Warps are received in ch 3, 12, 17. Hammerne in ch 20. Warp can be used 18 times before ch 20 and 75 times after. I'm sure mekkah or dondon could find a way.
@@gameboyn64 Oh ok I see. Honestly Warp is really useful in a lot of situations but I think warp-skipping should only be used on maps generally regarded as annoying. I only ever warp-skipped Chapter 23 (or whatever the first-to-last one is) so I found that my units got time to get good, namely Catria.
@@juicedkpps that's how i usually play too. Warp skipping to me kind of feels a little cheap bypassing the entire game with what was most likely unintentional game design.
gameboyn64 FE5 does have a bunch of maps that are worth warp skipping tho, so you can't entirely say that it's cheap to warp-skip when it's used on a map that feels cheap anyway.
that sweet, sweet ff9 world map theme
Also now that I could actually finish watching the video, I figured I'd throw in my two cents on the kids:
Cynthia, like all Awakening kids, has bases that scale with her parent's stats without her own level scaling with it, so if you wait a bit (might as well, considering her paralogue is one of the stronger and higher-leveled ones) she can have ridiculous bases relative to her base level of 10, and she ends up as basically Est but if she actually worked as intended; she starts with low-ish stats compared to the rest of your army (depending also on whether you used both her parents a lot) but low base level for high EXP gain and generally good growths that can make her snowball a lot if you use her, which is made easier by the strong pairup options you have access to at that point of the game. Owing to Sumia's limited support options, she is a bit more limited than most kids in who her father is, but Chrom (or even Robin) works well enough. Overall, she does require some babying to get going like most kids (haha gettit) but can very well catch up to and exceed Sumia once she's there.
Shigure in Conquest actually has a niche in that he's the only natural Sky Knight that joins you without requiring reclassing (and even with reclassing, your only options with natural access would be Corrin, who loses Yato, Azura, who loses dancing, and Selena, who starts at E lances). Unlike in Awakening, Paralogues and the base level of child units do scale with story progresson in Fates, so he can't go Turbo Est like Cynthia can, and the kids generally end up with lower weapon levels while their stats aren't even necessarily all that good compared to the rest of your army, so his combat potential is somewhat limited. He can still utilize Kinshi's unique anti-air flier niche which can come in handy in a couple of maps, or you just wait long enough for the Offspring Seal to promote him to Lv5+ Falcon Knight, at which point you get a flying staffbot with the fairly-rare-but-very-useful-in-Conquest Rally Spd for free and you can just use him for pure utility, rally some Spd, drop a Mend when you need to, maybe carry some people places or even just make use of his Spd and Mov pairup bonus whenever convenient. Upside to the latter is that at that point you can just make his dad whoever's left, as his stats almost don't matter for that role.
Shigure and Caeldori in BR and Rev are pretty much the same unit, and by extension the same as most other kids especially in Rev: Child unit that performs okay if you want to use them and put some thought in who to make their other parent, can get some funky skills and classes if you want to, they get outclassed by the good units (read: royals) but they're generally serviceable. It's the sandbox games, you can go do sandbox things with them, it'll probably turn out fine.
Would prolly put the lot of them in middle to low B to high C, ordered Shigure>Cynthia>Caeldori
Can't believe you didn't put PoR Elincia higher. Can't die + forced in Clash = pwnage incarnate
Maybe it's just me but I think Cordelia is better than Sumia
She only joins like 4 or 5 chapters later with mostly better stats and she can deal pretty well against the wyverns in that chapter while Sumia would just die.
Sumia is really fast but after a few level up Cordelia has enough to double.
No, you're not alone on that way of thinking. Cordelia is actually the much better pure Pegasus Knight. She isn't much slower and has higher strength. Cordi is also more well rounded with better physical bulk. Sumia's advantage is that she has more magic which makes her a better Dark Flier but Cordelia is significantly better as a Falcon Knight which should be her endgame class.
@@kcsupersonic1 You want both as Dark Fliers. Rally Movement and magic pair up bonuses > whatever Falco does.
@@Juan-zs6jt Not really. You just get what you want from Dark Flier from Cordi and then swap her out to Falcon Knight with a seal. You want Lancefaire from Falconknight for Cordi. She actually can actually hit really hard.
@@kcsupersonic1 That implies she won't get powercrept by the enemies, which she does.
@@Juan-zs6jt I've been through the hell grind that is beating Lunatic+ so I am speaking from my experience. Cordi was significantly better going first into Dark Flier and then finishing in Falconknight. Falconknight's higher speed and skill growths also mitigate the fact that those growths are lower naturally on Cordi than Sumia.
How is Cordelia a late/mid game unit she joins in chapter 7. Plus you can get the fates child units early.
He’s stated that it’s not really a huge set in stone difference. Just wanted to separate it out in two videos bc there are so many fliers to discuss for just one video
Yeah I don't actually think Cordelia joins late or anything, I just wanted to spread units out.
Can I get a quick explanation why Pegasus knights are any good? I know the est and green haired sis were decent but like s tiers? Just cuz flying?
Personally, I like Tana more than Vanessa, Tate more than Shanna, and Fiora more than Florina. I find their combat more consistent in my runs, and my playstyle just doesn't rely on their flying utility to do much.
Especially with Vanessa, I hardly notice the chapters between getting her and Tana. Chapter 9 is still early game to me.
I lost Vanessa in my ironman and am being forced to use Tana, I like her but I don't know how great she is in this kind of setting but I'm definitely missing Nessa haha
@@runaway74 As long as she lives, she'll at least do Vanessa's job.
@@thereaIitsybitsyspider The reason is that all Vanessa really needs is to get to level 10, which isn't even hard and promote to wyvern knight and she's pretty much golden. Because of her decent lance rank and low quality of enemies you can just slap a killer lance on her and she'll one round pretty much everything. The reason why Vanessa is prefered over Tana is because of her availability, though if you grind both to level 20/20 then Tana is better.
I'm biased towards pegasus knights so I always use both...
In my last Sacred Stones run, Vanessa was about level 10 when I recruited Tana, and I realized my Vanessa was utter garbage when I saw that Tana's base stats were about the same as (if not better than) my Vanessa who was 6 levels higher. I ended up using Tana and she actually gained stats when she leveled up, unlike my rng-screwed Vanessa.
The final fantasy music in this one is just
Woah Clair get down from there you're going to fall and get hurt.
Loving the final fantasy music in the background, especially ff8 since I just beat that game
Question, does the tier that the unit falls into reflect the tier that they would fall into compared with every other unit from their respective game? Or are you just stratifying the tier list according to how the pegasus knights compare to each other alone? For example, I would say Florina is an A-tier unit in FE7, but a B-tier unit when compared to all the other pegasus knights.
They are mostly meant to compare units to others in their respective games, but since power gaps between other units in other games are so vastly different (and of course because of the way a tier list looks) I still end up comparing them to each other a lot.
Even if people are right that Hinoka is one of the worst royals in Fates, that basically means she's the bottom of the top ten.
I couldn't help but laugh when you called 2 Prologue an auto-scroller.
TLP tier list mekkah....
It may or may not be optimal but I usually just train Sumia by pairing with Frederick and get an S Support and Cynthia comes out alright. Just gave her Luna and rally speed and it works out. Except for the time I made Sumia a general and she passed down pavise and had a pretty interesting Cynthia.
I can accept Marcia is pretty bad in fe10, but for some reason I really love her! I think it's because her new hairstyle is awesome.
Sumia is a common Chrom pairing when Robin is male. This makes both Cynthia very good because her starting stats are based on the level of her parents. And the lord plus his wife will be on the higher side usually.
On one of my awakening play throughs, I went Sumia/Chrom, Avatar/Cordelia. It is very doable to get Sumia high enough for galeforce by the time Lucina joins without grinding. Which nets you two more galeforce units in Lucina and Cynthia. If you put effort into Cordiela as well you have Six galeforce units rather early. Again without grinding.
This is a viable lunatic strategy. Lunatic is mostly focusing the exp on a few units and Pegasus knights, avatar and lord are good units to focus on. Peg knights are also good for pair ups for speed buffs allowing doubles early for Chrom or Robin. Peg pair ups also gives mobility to Chrom and Robin so finding a time to feed Codi or Sumia kills is not hard. Eventually the exp snowballs and the Pegasus knights are easily killing units on their own and if anything threatens them you switch to Robin or Chrom.
Also, I would rate Cordelia slightly better than Sumia. She has better stat growths and better alternative classes to gain skills from.
I honestly liked Reina in Birthright as well as Revelations, I'm generally not a fan of early-mid prepromoted units, but I feel like she's probably the one that I like using the most.
Lord tier list?
didn't realize the title was a joke until i saw there wasn't est
Do a Berserker/Warrior tier list :D Axe Fighters yeehaw!
Sumia seems at an oddly high tier to me.
Early game, Sumia has flier mobility and pair up to get units around. Also, her quick support with Chrom (if you're not using F!Robin) patches up her offenses and gives her someone up hide behind when axe units show up, as well as helping his mobility. Late game she's probably your earliest user of Galeforce, which we all know is OP. She can also promote to Falcon (or reclass after Galeforce cos Awakening) for staff utility.
She stands out pretty well, and in Awakening when anyone can break the game and Robin solos without breaking a sweat standing out at all means you're high tier.
I don't think Florina's stats would be similar to Fiora's without Lyn mode. She's there for 4 chapters. She can get a few kills on her join chapter, chapter 16. She's a bit limited by the ballista unless you're turtling. Chapter 17 has a bunch of archers so I don't see how she does much at all here. 17x is filled with ax users. She can do well on pirate ship. In addition, she is also fighting really hard for a deployment slot on chapter 17,17x, and 18. Those chapters are very limited on slots compared to the number of good or decent units the game dumps on you in the midgame. I don't see how she can close a 2 strength gap and 4 speed gap (effectively 5 since they both lose speed from basically everything due to their con). Plus a couple points in defense and resistance.
I still rank Florina above Fiora because she is very useful before Fiora comes, but I don't see how Fiora isn't significantly better combat-wise.
16: Just kill the first ballista with Marcus. Florina can help him get to it by dropping him across the cliff on turn 1. 17: Almost all the deployment slots should be given to ponies, and Florina has one. The archers can all be killed on player phase, they have trash HP and AS. 17x: This can be flyskipped, your truly by Florina. She doesn't have to fight a single living thing.
@@Juan-zs6jt you're basically saying just clear 2/3 of the map with Marcus. Most of the enemies are between that ledge and the ballista. She doesn't get kills with or without the ballista in your method.
On chapter 17, you have to hide her turn 1 because you can't reach the archers. Then she's already positionally behind the rest of your mounted units until you get past Raven. You can't player phase all the archers unless you're going slowly. They're scattered pretty evenly spaced across the map. She can do something there, but the cavs just blow through the map unless you are purposely babying her.
edit: Plus in 16, you can't do a 1 turn rescue drop with only 1 rescuer and the same dropper.
I've addressed this in detail in my comment on Mekkah's other tier list video. Florina is fine as far as gaining EXP goes.
- In a 3-turn of chapter 16, Florina can get 2 kills while doing her rescue drop utility and staying out of range of the ballista. If you are taking longer, she can get more kills.
- In a 7-turn of chapter 17, it's fine if Florina falls behind, because she can help boost Raven to Lucius. In fact, you need her for this in addition to all of your other cavaliers if you want to get all of the treasure. She can get kills set up for her pretty easily as well. 6-turning this map is possible without LM but it requires very favorable RNG to kill some of the enemies in the way, so it's not reasonable, but 7-turning is pretty lenient. Again, if you're going slower, Florina can get more kill EXP.
- Florina is basically autodeploy in chapter 17x because not only is she required for a 2-turn strategy, but even in slow strategies, she can pick up the villages for essentially free.
So the point is that EXP is not an issue for Florina relative to Fiora, and the supposed difficulties in deploying her or using her on some chapters can be worked around.
No Emma from the Echoes Cipher DLC?
First Xenoblade music, now FF7 music! Dub szn bois
11:14
Man you know where Pegasus knights would be great? Mt Gagazet. Just fly over the boss fight lol.
Love the list, and the Final Fantasy music!
once playing birthright, i married subaki and azura really early game for a quick strong shigure and got caeldori cause she was kinda there as well and my little pegasus subaki/shigure/caeldori family line became ridiculously strong cause, by virtue of having high supports and being paired up often, they would just straight up never get hit
What I learned today, it doesn't matter if a unit is on mekkah's good side or not it only matters if your on bad side
Man Fates branching paths make units much harder to judge. In my cq draft playthrough I was able to turn shigure into a decent rally bot with rally speed and defense. Though if I'd gotten Arthur Keaton or Benny I probably could've done strength defense along with his admittedly crappy heal.
Alternative take: The Shadow Dragon pegs, Vanessa, and Tana are all S tier, everyone else is A or lower.
This is because they get dragons on promotion, and dragons are inherrantly cooler than pegasus.
I was very, very spoiled with FE 8 being my first FE game, and have never quite recovered from the feeling of disappointment that comes with promoting a pegasus knight in any other game.
Well, Ingrid can also promote to Wyvern if you want to.
I'd absolutely agree with bumping Vanessa and Tana if only because WK was just that good. Vanessa remains my favourite character for that reason.
@@papersonic9941
Well, everybody in 3 Houses promotes to Wyvern.
Everybody.
Digging all this final fantasy music
Unless I missed it I dont you think mentioned anything about RD transfer bonuses, which may not change any placements but could be brought up (considering Florina is considered in both Lyn and Eliwood/Hector mode though more significant). I could see an argument for and against including them, but (reminder bias) I do think theyre pretty good for Marcia. They turn her somewhat ok/bad bases into more decent which can help with her low str growth, and shes likely to max a lot of stats considering her insane growths in PoR, whereas Tanith may not max and Sigrun doesnt even get them as far as I know. She's also available for Mekkah's bridge though Sigrun and Tanith are forced there, but fliers are always good on that chapter
You also mentioned crossbows being a huge downside in RD for those fliers, but you can always slap on nullify on them which is basically giving them flying immunity for "free" (as other games typically require an item taking up an item slot), and can be taken off freely if the map doesnt have many archers/no crossbows
thank you for coming to my ted talk
One issue when it comes to tiering transfer bonus versions of FE10 characters is agreeing on which transfers to assume. Do we only assume average --/20 stats for their FE9 versions and transfer the capped stats? What about stat boosters that multiple units might want to hit a cap? Do we do fixed mode or random mode? If we do fixed mode, can we use the BEXP exploit to manipulate stats into growing more than they should? If we do random mode, can we RNG abuse +7/+8 stats each level and cap everything theoretically possible?
For Tanith specifically, she can be expected to get a spd transfer and sometimes a skl transfer. She needs to get lucky or take an Energy Drop to get a str transfer. If you rig def growths on 9 out of 10 level ups, she can get a def transfer. Unfortunately an HP transfer is pretty unreasonable because she needs 3 Seraph Robes no matter how much you rig. But each of the spd, str, and def transfers greatly helps Tanith in FE10, but aid her to different extents.
the legend
You bring up a lot of good points that I didnt consider, that definitely makes this more confusing. _If_ transfers were taken into consideration, I feel like it depends how PoR is played and how RD is going to be played, for example if both are played casually then I think average max level stats in non fixed mode without exploits would be considered since thats "vanilla". Though Mekkah did mention hard mode for RD I think, but from what I can tell he took it from a "casual" standpoint? Or at least, clearing the game semi fast but not LTC. Could be wrong
However, this does make me reconsider transfers in a way, that I didnt realize they would be this confusing, but thanks for the response
Final Fantasy 4 ost, nice.
My last Birthright playthrough I used Reina. I do find she's incredibly good until lategame where her combat is negligible at best. I consider her a discount Camilla. By the time she falls off, you have Setsuna who doubles everything and always has +8 damage with quick draw and Takumi who is generally strong af. You're not hurting for Kinshi Knights if you want one
Cynthia is really good as far as kids go, and that’s largely because you can basically link your Galeforce investment to Sumia, rather than spend a bunch of time leveling Cynthia to get it herself. This opens up Cynthia to promote into Falcon Knight instead and get Lancefaire, and since her internal level will be lower than her mother’s she’ll likely hit level 15 there even before Sumia does. As far as male parent options go, probably the most popular choice is to pass down Aether to her from Chrom which obviously is a very good skill, but she can also inherit Luna or Dual Guard+ from Frederick pretty easily. If for whatever reason you want to run a Dark Mage Cynthia you can make Henry marry Sumia, but this is a pretty terrible option. Robin and Gaius are also parent options, but I’m avoiding those options since they’re typically reserved in playthroughs to pass down Peg Knight to a unit that doesn’t get it naturally. Then again, this isn’t in the context of a postgame playthrough, so from that perspective passing down Ignis would be almost as good as Aether, and Robin would appreciate the flying backpack from Sumia, so it’s certainly not a bad option.
As far as Awakening (I've played Hard mode without grinding twice recently, but not Lunatic), I think that non-Robin Dark Fliers can reasonably get Galeforce by about chapter 18-19 (earlier can be achieved by doing children paralogues), so I definitely agree the usefulness of Galeforce is overrated (definitely still something to prioritize though as it helps those last 7 or so chapters a lot). As for Sumia vs Cordelia, I find that Sumia tends to struggle with strength a lot, and this isn't helped by her inability to support someone Vaike. Also, I don't think Sumia contributes much in the 3 chapters she's in before Cordelia shows up.
Galeforce is not reasonably obtainable for multiple pegasi on HM, there is not enough exp. Sumia can support with Frederick, those pair up bonuses give her defense and strength, and the support bonuses give her extra durability and kill power.
Sumia overall is much weaker than Cordelia in strength, reasonably even in magic however , Cordelia is better in growths and just better overall, sumia is still useful as well but primary Pegasus knight always went to cordy
@@Juan-zs6jt While I do think three 1st gen Galeforcers is the maximum (hard mode without grinding), I do think it is reasonably obtainable for those three. Heck, I did it by chapter 20 without any planning in an iron man, despite not playing the game for years.
Also, as for the Sumia-Frederick thing, hiding Frederick behind Sumia or vice versa doesn't seem very good to me (except in maybe chapters 8 and 9 because they're desert maps so Frederick has nothing better to do than catch a ride with Sumia. Also, Sumia might hit some additional strength benchmarks with a Frederick pair up, but I still think it's probably not worthwhile in the long run. However, I will say that I haven't really experimented with this much so I could be completely wrong on this point.
@@Philip-ik7zf Yeah, I think Sumia's greatest strength over Cordelia is that she could potentially promote faster, so she'll be able to do significant damage with magic for the first arc. Personally, after the first arc I try to feed kills to her so that she can get Galeforce and reclass to Falcon Knight for Rescue (the extra magic Sumia has makes her better at this than others, but I always reclass fliers to Falcon Knight if they already have Galeforce regardless of their magic stat anyway)
Think you're underrating the value of the flying staff bots of FE4
Not really, because horses get staffs too and quickly outpace the flyers
Horses are just too good in FE4
@@bagfaceman1656 Don't you only get 2 horse healers per gen? 1 being locked behind promotion (Master Knights) and the other gen 1 horse healer leaves part way through (Ethlyn) could be missing someone but-
why is fe11 caeda above fe12 palla here when it is the other way around on your all time top 15 units list?
He changed his mind, most likely. And I kind of agree. FE12 Palla is just a really strong peg knight without much else to her, while Caeda can also be a really strong peg knight, but she also has a unique utility that plays ball very well with FE11's design.
Shigure: difficult to get if you are playing optimally, as azura has a hard time getting supports with people other than the ones she sings for, but even then, fates kids are just not very good. They tend to be worse versions of their parents, and the only surefire way you can make them relevant is by either having their mom be camilla, or waiting until you get offspring seals, which i believe is chapter 16 and onwards, roughly. Of course you can always have him be a staffbot, but as mentioned below, capture is a thing in this game, and you can capture an enemy falcoknight (which have pass and maxed ranks in lunatic in ch 24) or really any other unit that would make a good staffbot.
Cynthia: Being sumia's daughter, she is actually one of the easiest children to get in awakening. Out of chrom's possible wives he'll likely marry sumia, olivia or fem robin, so it's fairly plausible you already have her paralogue unlocked before you know it.
Even if sumia does not marry chrom though, she has other good pairup candidates- frederick or kellam being 2 of them, which are both available early. i'd say it's pretty feasible for sumia to be married by the time you unlock cynthia's paralogue, completing it though? that's another story.
As for cynthia herself, her best parent is frederick imo, as she gets wyvern rider/lord from him. she still gets paladin from chrom if you want that though. Her growth rates are good, (but then again, what's new about that in awakening) since she joins at level 10, you can promote her instantly, but she may have trouble catching up depending on when you recruit her.
Caeldori: i have not used her much, specially in revelation, as she is eclipsed by the many flier options you have. judging by BR's roster i'd say she does not have much to offer other than her wings, and maybe a staff? i guess you can make her good if you wait until she gets good levels out of offspring seals.
Reina: is a flier with a bow, prepromoted with good bases, though her class bases and growths are not very good when compared to the rest. *her growths are still good* though she falls off. she could use a different class with better stats, but for that you need to either have male corrin marry her, or give her a dread fighter seal from DLC.
I might be wrong but isn't Percy considere better than his father?
How about a bishop/priest/cleric tier list?
The Amiti is only bad in FE9 because Elincia's Strength is so low. It actually has the same might as a regular Brave Sword in that game.
All them final fantasy OSTs
Great Video as always. Now i have an urge to play FFX again 🤔
Is he missing est? Idk if I missed him saying why she was excluded or if she's not here by mistake
I made an Est archetype tier list already, that's why she's not here!
@@Mekkkah Oh ok thank you. Now that you mention it though I think you did say that in the middle of the video
One neat thing about FE4 Pegasus Knights is that their promotion can use staves, though I don't think their default staff rank is amazingly high, and Fee probably needs Claude to make the most of it.
I don't think I've ever had much luck with Thea, which is sad since I like all the blue haired and middle sibling pegasus knights and she's usually one of the weaker ones. At least she's not Juno.
Farina is neat because she comes on a map pretty much tailor made to train her, and basically ready to promote whenever you feel like, Funds Rank is a massive headache in that game though so some might use that as a point against her if they like doing ranked runs, you can manage if you're good but .
Tana remind me of Shadow Dragon Catria, she comes a bit late for her stats but it's still workable(and FE8 has Creature Campaign to help make up for getting Tana somewhat late). FE8 Pegasi being able to promote to Wyvern Knights is also neat, just watch out for the Luna glitch when using javelins against bulky enemies twice in a row.
Tanith is absolutely nuts in FE9 because of Reinforcements of the Army, crazy evade between her speed and Earth support and having enough magic to actually make use of the elemental weapons, her only real issue is having to wait until the second half of the game to use her. Elincia is not so lucky in that game since she gets only 4 maps to make use of her and starts at level 1. But thankfully her staff rank is absurd to ensure she'll always have something to do if you do decide to use her. She'll probably have to start as a staffbot for a bit before she gets enough strength to make good use of Amiti, which she thankfully starts out with as well.
FE10 Pegasi look bad compared to wyverns since the latter don't have a bow weakness and thunder magic isn't common enough to be scary for them that often, it also doesn't help that most of them don't show up in too many maps compared to the likes of Jill and Haar who can cover like 90% of the game between them.
Again, I don't think I'd call Cordelia late if you're not grinding, and she probably gets more value out her merc line than Galeforce in a "standard" playthrough.
Hinoka is a good flier that shows up not all that late and starts with Guard Naginata, which is a neat weapon that might maybe get traded around with Oboro until you can buy another one(assuming you don't forge it). Her personal skill isn't as strong an effect as Camilla's but has an easier range to work with and more damage always hurts the enemy more.
Fates and Awakening kids are just annoying to rate because of how variable they can be thanks to what their parents can offer them, but their maps are usually worth doing even if you take too long to need to make use of the kids(and Fates DOES give them autolevel items at least). And yeah Galeforce comes super late if you're not passing it down or using Dark Fliers for everything, which can be annoying since it's a weaker class statwise than Falcoknight to make up for tome access.
Reina is cool because even though Kinshi have relatively weak stats, they get some cool skills like Air Superiority as a mini breaker vs. fliers and Amaterasu to heal a bunch of allies with. She also has a mini Lifetaker effect for killing things.
Love these tierlists as ever, Mekkah! Agreed on most of the placements, but...
C-rank? Sorry, Ferrynris couldn't hear you over the anguished screams of all the Orgahill pirates she shamelessly robbed in chapter 3. If you get her to promote by the start of chapter 4, she'll be your highest-mobility staff user (assuming Raquesis isn't promoted yet), giving her healing and return utility. And in chapter 5, she's uniquely capable of taking on Meteor mages in the Yied Desert. Genealogy maps have varied enough terrain and side objectives that there's always something for fliers to be doing.
I would put her in B-tier; she should at least be better than Farina and the RD Falcoknights. And of the FE4 pegasi, Fee is definitely better, partly due to inheritance (potentially starting out with the Brave Lance), partly due to availability. I'd call them both B-tier; Fee towards the front, Erinys near the back. Then again, these are the ramblings of someone with less FE experience than you, so take them with a chug of Vulnerary. Thanks for reading!
Mekkah how can you forget to include in this list INGIRI
Can you make a lord tier list?
I think Tanith’s falcoknight can actually be stronger than her, which is pretty funny.
Reina's basically where Revelation turns from absolute garbage to a playable Fire Emblem experience.
So many map gimmicks can be outright ignored because of flight, and she gets even better availability than Camilla. Right from the start, she ignores the spikes/forest walls of her join chapter, gets to fly anywhere you want and enable a 1 turn clear of the Camilla/Flora boat map when everyone else is normally locked to the boats until Corrin remembers he can use dragon veins several turns in, and Reina's contributions throughout the entire game are a Godsend.
Also helps that she's a prepromote with good bases, and excellent offensive growths.
Her def/res/hp don't really go far without statboosters, but that's hardly even a concern when most of Revelations' map gimmicks work against the enemies as well, since your fliers can often skip them or easily limit how many enemies and damage they take.
If it weren't for Reina (and Camilla/later joining fliers), I'd actually agree with most in saying Revelation is an unplayable garbage fire. As it is, most of my issues with it stem from every map before Reina joins.
First Xenoblade music, and now FF music... If you take recommendations for chill jrpg ost:s to put in these videos, I think Dragon Quest would have a lot of very fitting background music for these kinds of videos (e.g. "The Observatory", "Homeland" or the like)
We need that Lorenz tier list!
love the ff music used in this video :)
I think RD Tanith is generally underrated. She's essential in the chapter she joins, she has good strength and can even cap it. The chapter she joins, you get a ton of bonus experience and can easily promote her right there. Her biggest downside is that she can't SS swords for Alondite in the endgame. What helps her over the others is that she actually has a good chance of capping strength, and Falconknights have desirable caps in the endgame where she's available.
The biggest case for Sigrun over Tanith is that she is auto-deployed, so you can benefit from her utility for free, but she is still, in my opinion, the 4th best flier behind Haar, Tibarn, and Elincia, and the best endgame Beorc flier for combat.
The problem is that she joins really late and at a point where 20 str and 23 spd isn't really cutting it. In the 3-p, 8/11 of the greil mercenaries have equal or superior atk and 3/11 of the greil mercenaries have equal or superior spd.
That is true, she is a little behind the pack. What puts her forward for me is the context in which she exists:
-Arrives with a bucketload of BEXP
-She quickly catches up due to her great offensive growths
-Almost of the maps she is available on are maps where Fliers are particularly good
-Her caps are relevant for the endgame where she is one of a few units that can reliably double everything. Haar and Titania unfortunately fall short of this.
I'm not saying she's a god-tier unit throughout the game, I'm saying she's one of a handful of units that have a statistical edge going into the endgame, and of those, she is one of the easiest to train.
With Erin, you knock her for not making use of roads, but she faces no impediments in Ch 4, where are no roads between your castle and everything else. Also, she can be useful for helping out Brigit and friends in Ch 3. I agree she is C-tier but definitely not only good for getting villages.
There are definitely roads between all the castles in Ch4. There's more terrain though so occasionally she might be able to catch up a bit/pull ahead. I like her ability to take out Blizzard Mages there, though again I think it's kind of minor.
As for Brigid and Tailtu/Claude, the areas they started in are designed so that they can get out alive by themselves with some fairly trivial moves (no advanced AI tricks or anything). Erynes can help out a bit but it's not exactly the level of flier utility that other fliers deliver.
@@Mekkkah My memory was hazy re: ch 4... I just looked at the map and you are right that there are a lot of road tiles leading to northeast castle. So I stand corrected! But getting to the southwest castle, everyone else has to traverse the mountains, so I wonder if she can be put to good use there. But IIRC, she's not tough enough to face the enemy armies on her own. IDK, I'll have to pay attention to her next time.
Lords tier list coming?
Does Est from echoes count?
this isn't a Pegasus knight tier list, it's a RGB tier list.
Man, Syrene could be so amazing, if only she weren't the literal last unit to be recruited.
tsubaki in BR is pretty great actually. revelations has the habit of making good units bad so i thought i should note that he's available from the first birthright chapter and just does the flier thing where he is good because he can fly. in a casual playthrough you might replace him with his daughter and just us him as a pair up bot for her because he falls off halfway through. this is my experience, but id say in BR he gets a B from me
Syrene is just funny so you can ungu bungu Triangle Vidofnir the endgame bosses.
But she sucks. In a game where you get a prologue unit who can with just a dracoshield fight the demon king from base, she is disappointing.
Wait, Seth can really do that? That’s honestly just hilarious