(Singer, written in before). I sometimes either intentionally or intuitively, go slightly sharp to give extra stress to the emotion or cry of the particular phrase or note in question. Taking all these subtleties out is taking the humanity, the feeling and the skillset out....
I’ve gathered from working with audio engineering and various vocalists over the years, people with strong opinions about auto tune and pitch correction have little to no clue what they’re talking about. It doesn’t hide the persons “real voice” when used in moderation (not the way it was displayed in this video) which is the case the vast majority of the time. Great singers use auto tune too in studio and live, shocker..
@@tb1235 Yup. It's the whole "I hate CGI!" argument. The people saying that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. That, and AutoTune ≠ robot effect. It's something it CAN do, sure, but it has a graphical mode and, in fairness, a very capable auto-mode too for simpler jobs. Just crazy that people keep perpetuating the idea that autotune and pitch correction are different things when they aren't.
Oh thank goodness. I was worried you were going to tell me Alicia was an auto-tune bunny. I think she's fantastic. One of the best soul voices of the last 30 years.
If I were a music artist, I would have my contract state that I had the final approval before release. Autotune must be embarrassing to artists with vocal abilities.
I would link you to T-Pain vs. Vocoder (😆) but I forgot it and then I'd send you a link to T-Pain NPR sessions. Pain uses vocoder solely for creative expression but the dude can actually sing. I weep for our next generation of brokedown rage infested Travis Scott stans.
@@wcndave It would probably depend on if I were just starting out or if I were established. Once an artist becomes popular and they have that leverage it becomes a whole new game.
@@charlotteemerson5050 completely agree, however the original contract could be a bugger. Look at Taylor swift for example, huge artist and has to rerecord everything!
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️ Hello Dear, How you feeling today?? Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
Also, the resynthesis that occurs with pitch correction alters the natural textural cues that aren't mistakes, and may communicate vital subtle information about the human experience in the real physical world.
And as Fil has pointed out, if pitch is something that needs to be made "perfect" to be good and acceptable ... Why don't they do auto-tune and pitch correction on guitar solos? In that case people still seem to understand and appreciate the expression and extra emotion that bending and playing with pitch can provide. But suddenly people seem unable to apply that same idea to voices any more.
I , personally, want to hear the singers real voice all the time. It's just so much better for me. I noticed it before but your analysis just points it out so much more. You begin to wonder if some of these people can actually sing 🤷♀️🤷♀️ thanks again for educating me. Peace!! ✌✌🤘🤘🎅🎅
In all honesty, some of them can’t. But they “look” right and are “saleable” which appears to be all that’s needed today because they can just fix all the lacks in the studio.
It’s not difficult to tell if a person can sing well or not. Using pitch correct does not hide the voice, if a person is bad at singing then you’ll hear the pitch correct working overtime. There are also thresholds with utilizing it. Simply tightening the pitchy spots or full on t pain.
I feel like I've been let into a secret world (well, not so secret anymore) through your auto-tune/pitch correction analyses videos. I am a visual learner, and this video was particularly fascinating to me. I also believe that musicians make better producers, because they've got a better 'ear' , so to speak. Very intriguing Fil 👍💜
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️ Hello Dear, How you feeling today?? Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
Back in college I did a music production course, so I'm certainly no George Martin but I have vivid memories of working on a recording long into the night; editing and correcting where I needed to etc. and then I realised that the better job I did, the less people would notice. That's the curse of the producer....most people only notice production/editing/egineering if it's done badly. Great producers just make the artist shine even more (which is 100% as it should be of course).
A random marketing idea: make an album without any auto tune or pitch correction, and advertise that on the front. Might work for one of these new artists who are trying to imitate 90's punk&grunge.
I truly believe the push for autotune and pitch correction stems back to American Idol. Lol. Randy Jackson's favorite line was "Its a bit pitchy, dogg." I hated that show but my sister loved it, so I usually ended up listening to it while I read. I especially hated when they poured the cringe and made fun of the delusional. I blame singing shows for the downfall of music.
best, most thorough and understandable differentiation between autotune and pitch correction I've heard! I think musicians will always prefer the natural sound over the "robotic" sound of autotune, but the "market" shoves so much of that down the public's throats, few even realize what they're hearing.
One of the bad aspects of using auto tune is that you will have no reason to improve. You will stay mediocre at best. You will not grow as a singer. Singers who are fine with auto tune aren't real true singers. They pull out the very things that make the human voice relatable to others which is their personality. To know the difference between auto tune and pitch correction is nice. However neither of them should be used. I rather work at getting better than becoming lazy. I know the voice will change pitch when you are trying to get something across emotionally and that really is your goal. Music is about feeling. No one says I want to listen to music just to hear the correct notes. We listen to music to feel...to be moved. This is my two cents worth. Fil I appreciate your integrity so very much when it comes to all aspects of music...keep the videos coming.
Agree! Fil's video on Freddie Mercury is a great example, autotuning him kills the feel, emotion, and enjoyment. I think that autotune (AND overuse of pitch correction) is why I don't find most of today's artists very enjoyable to listen to. I know that some corrections are viable, just as mixing and effects, but to via software make someone sing "better" just isn't right in my book.
I could listen to that voice all day and night. There’s so much emotion in this performance. The “flaws” are what make it magical. Love her, and I love the breakdown too. Thanks Fil.
I noticed autotuning strips harmonics and dynamic shading from the voice. This can be described as a lack of warmth or humanity in the performance. I really don't understand how anyone considers the use of autotune as an improvement. I much prefer the natural voice with all the imperfections. The only exception is for artists that cannot sing.
same here. when i record my songs i don't even need autotune.So far it sounds fine in general. the only exception for me might be is when i need to harmonize my vocals
I believe I can shed light on this. Changing pitch without changing speed of playback (or in real time!) Is very complicated and impossible without digital technology. The algorithm needs to essentially generate something that isn't there, because it can no longer play back the original waveform. What it actually does is similar to a type of synthesis called granular synthesis, where it takes a tiny snippet of audio and loops it. What you are hearing is no longer a human voice, you're hearing a very sophisticated synthesiser that uses the original vocal audio as the waveform and the control inputs for dynamics, transients ect. There is no such thing as subtle auto tune. It's either on or off. With it on, it completely annihilates the original audio.
I should clarify, when I say there's no subtle digital pitch correction, I'm talking about the timbre and dynamics. Studios use "just a touch" of pitch correction are only controlling the amount of correction to preserve vibrato. They are only letting it shift the pitch by say 30% closer to the grid lines as opposed to 100% snapped to the grid. But no matter how little it's corrected by, it's still radically altering the timbre and dynamics. I hate it.
The other issue with only partially correcting a vocal for subtlety is that the voice is not a fretted or keyed instrument with tempered tuning. Good singers intonate, just like a bowed instrument player or horn player. They adjust their pitch closer to just temperament, not equal temperament, and make their notes sound good against the backing music regardless of what there pitch looks like compared to precise 440hz equal temperament notes. Slight pitch correction is potentially worse than going full T-pain because it puts the pitches in a no-mans land between equal and just temperament. BTW, if you don't know, equal temperament is a mathematical compromise to allow a keyed or fretted instrument to play close to (but not completely) in tune in every key. It puts each key an equal amount out of tune in the 12 tone system. As a guitarist who tunes by ear it drives me insane, because if I get one chord sounding perfect, others get really out of tune, and when I use a tuner all chords sound equally dull, lifeless and slightly out of tune. Oh boy, let's take this nasty compromise and apply it to something that is completely free from such limitations, the human voice. Great idea.
@@Patrick-857thank you. I find it patronising when people say subtle pitch correction. Just do another retake. I think Alicia Keys is one of the best singers of the last 20 + years. She has a beautiful tone and timbre to her voice, and she has made some great songs. And I usually hate rnb. 😂 She has more soul songs though.
Thanks for the wonderful reactions you do, Phil. As a self taught musician of 40+ years, my journey started as many do, with the deaf leading the deaf. Week by week, month by month, year by year, we begin to piece together this magical puzzle we call music. Funny stories are often born from discovery. One such instance was a recording session I was doing with my band in the late 80s. Our drummer was freak about accuracy. We had a song that needed hand claps. Four of us huddled around the vocal mic in the vocal booth and began attempting a simple hand clap track on the beginning, solo section, and end vamp of the song. We would listen back and the claps would be a little scattered here and there. The drummer insisted that we get the claps exactly together. Take after take after take after take. Money was flying out the window. Finally, after two torturous hours and a hundred takes, the hand claps were dead on all the way through the song. We went into the mixing room and listened back to our perfection. Guess what?!? The damned hand clap track sounded like one person clapping! We were all hiding behind each other with our claps! We finally went back to one of our sloppiest efforts and kept that.It sounded the best. This intrigued me. imperfections
This great story reminds me of how too many people get hung up on the idea of "perfection" -- and also, how so many of the great recording artists actually tend to like to work fast, not getting hung up on perfection or overthinking, but trying to capture a feel. They like and appreciate the imperfections that result. That includes people like the David Bowie, Prince, the Beatles, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne ... so it's hard to argue that they are just lazy, or don't know what they're doing. I remember a video here where Prince's engineer said she laughs when she hears about people spending days trying to get the "perfect" drum sound, because Prince would often give her ten minutes. In another video, Tony Visconti says that on the Bowie classic "Heroes" Bowie wanted a cowbell sound, but didn't want to wait for the engineers to go out and find the perfect cowbell, so they just grabbed a metal tape canister and beat on that. On "Lay Lady Lay" Dylan gave the drummer no time to work out a drum part, but jumped right into recording -- so purely on the spur of the moment, instinctively, the drummer used bongos on the verses and the trapset on the choruses -- and now, in hindsight, that captures the spirit of the whole song. Geoff Emerick, the Beatle's engineer, said that they would often highlight happy "mistakes" and bring them forward in the mix, because they were often really interesting in their "imperfection." And guess what? Those "imperfect" things work just as well -- or better, because they're different -- and no one can tell the difference.
I recall David Lee Roth complaining about the 72-track recording equipment because, in his words, you could bring a camel into the studio and get a good vocal track. I think there's something to be said for that repulsion, because singers _really are_ trying to establish an emotional connection to the listener, one that is deep indeed and I think because of that, integrity should be considered foundational in the art form. Besides, art by definition must embody skill and even mastery. I can put a slab of wood into a CNC machine, load a program, and have it carve a beautiful portrait of The Madonna, but that's not art by any stretch. But I can set up a five-head moulder to make thousands of feet of custom door and window trim, and that is art because it takes skill, a good eyeball, and sometimes a truck-load of intuition* to make that hunk of metal sing. ("The Art of War" ain't about somebody's teenage angst.) Anyway, kudos to Ms. Keys. I can't stand her music and I got exactly zero joy from hearing her sing, but she is good and it was interesting to see her skill and honesty right there on a graph. Keep that in mind the next time anybody tells you that emotions and humanity can't be expressed with numbers and mathematics. And cheers to you Fil. Another excellent video for the guy you mentioned at the beginning - the one who isn't into music, that's me, and yet again I sat through the damned thing enjoying it the whole time. And Merry Christmas, or whatever the Hell you celebrate. =^_^= *Seriously. When you're mixing and matching various cutting knives to match hand-made trim some craftsman made 120 years ago, and 0.1 mm can spell the difference between success and failure...there's no algorithm for that.
@@jenniparker1 Sorry, I lost my job to covid. It was a small place with just a handful of people working there; it's still in business, but the owner does all the moulder work. Thanks for the reply! Cheers!
I used to do that myself using a single spindle moulder, put the piece through the moulder many, many times with single blades at different angles to reproduce old moulding patterns. Boss closed us down simply to do with safety insurance and the local builders then had no one to come to when they needed something different. Loved that job, great satisfaction in making something off the wall, still got all my fingers and thumbs.
@@vmax4steve524 That must have been tricky! Sure is a nice feeling to help people out like that, especially because they're keeping the work of the original craftsman. Cheers!
I am amazed by this technology show. It makes me marvel at the early pioneers of rock like the producer of some of the 60’s bands who would loop a singer over his own voice to make him sound stronger.
Thank you Fil. It’s amazing the difference between flipping a switch to full blown auto tune and the subtlety of correcting a note or two. I still enjoy those flat and sharp notes that give a song/voice so much more personality. Very well done! 👍🏻
love that Fil used the "can get in the way of what I'm feelin..." lyric to demonstrate the dehumanizing hazards of auto-tune, and the less invasive pitch correction. (ain't nothin like the real thing tho) I appreciate stumbling on those layers
The purpose of a live performance is to incite emotion, the purpose of a recording is to stand up to repeated listening in pristine audio environment. An imperfection that would stick out on repeated listening to a recording would be just a momentary blur in a live performance, immediately flies out the window, often unnoticed.
I agree with what you’re saying. However when an artist relies on studio production so much, their live performances are a night and day difference. That’s the issue I have as a music enthusiast (more than a casual listener, but not an actual musician). I won’t disregard an artist/band that can’t replicate their studio sound while live… but those types of artists are never on preferred list of music.
I enjoy these videos so much! For people like me, who know nothing about producing, but love the sound of good vocals, it is very interesting to be able to see what is real and what is not. Thank you and happy holidays!
I have 2 musician brothers that tour around the world. they have declared me “tone deaf” with no remedy in the way…I no longer believe them. I watch your channel bcz I actually understand the point you are making…granted unable to use it bcz,,,.booo-hooo I still can’t hold a note! You are fantastic!
Thank you for taking a look at Alicia! I was happy to hear that her claims were in fact true. I’m a little late to the party, but I made it. Great Analysis Fil!
I liked to learn of another way to use pitch correction in logic. The only thing with this method is it is by ear, if you select flex then select pitch you will be able to see all of the notes as if it was midi, and where it is sharp or flat simply drag up or down to bring it in tune.
I totally appreciate that you make a point to say the app each time now. I downloaded the paid version myself and am totally happy with it..it has increased my confidence a lot using the vocal pitch monitor and you introduced me to this app. Thank you very much again for that
Thank you for the video and great example to explain the difference between the across the board sweeping road roller affect of autotune vs the more selective subtle use of manual pitch correction. Sometimes its difficult to get these concepts without actually hearing them in action👍🏻 Though, imo, the lifting of the pitch on the Alicia Keys example is not needed. And apparently she didnt either. I join your tip to the hat to her. (Further down Ill express why I think its not needed) As far as studio vs live in light of the use of autotune, good point. It creates an unrealistic expectation of perfection in which then the live version sounds so different that disappointment can ensue. Unfortunately if a song is so autotuned in the studio, they will just simply cake on the autotune live also. We get a double whammy of never hearing the natural vocal. On a personal note, when I go to listen and see a live concert, I am happier when there is some variation. It personalizes the art at that moment in time. Bob Dylan is a great example of this. His live work is so much different than the studio. So, for me, I dont seek a perfect copy of the song live from an artist. A bit of stage creativity makes things exciting and artistic imo. Why I dont think the pitch correction is even needed in the Alicia Keys song... In the Alcia Keys example, what the slight flatness is to my ears is to create a yearning that she is expressing. Isnt a pleading request usually stated with some depression within the vocal? Some near sadness? So technically flat, but expressively naturally correct. Again emotional creativity over sterile perfection. Also, this style of word speak nearly a talking blues lends itself to be wordy. The style itself leans more towards a bit of scatting and leniency to improvise. Its where the expressive "speak" of the song is just as important as the notes. Therefore sharp and flat becomes a bit irrelevant as compared to say "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" which has more melodic and choral feel to it. That is, the notes are held out, more defined and simplistic. So pitch variation of song is more important in one style and structure than another at times. Art Garfunkel and his straight choirboy type singing as compared to Alicia Key's more blues and trill filled singing are going to result in one case less and another case more pitch variation. Which, again, is appropriate for each song. The vocoder and effects for artistic expression.. I think this song style difference I mentioned above might also explain why Alicia used a vocoder on the chorus. While I would have rather heard her sing without that effect, she was creating this more "choral" sound. The chorus switches gears from the more spoken pleading bluesy sound to an acceptance and more dignified response. And with dignity comes more structure. So the vocoder effect gives a "proper" sound to her voice. You can almost visualize her sitting up straighter as she is expressing clarity and revelation about the songs subject matter. Hey, even the great Beatles used effects on songs such as ADT, compression, pitch variation, flanging, phasing, even a Leslie speaker. So, yes, I can see why she used it there artistically. Though Id have prefered the work of the voice. Or at least would like to hear the attempt. She is that great of a vocalist that I dont think she needs such tricks. Jim Reeves never needed a vocoder ;). But again thats artistic choice most likely.
Thx Fil. Wow. There are so many intricacies involved with auto tune and pitch correction. I'm becoming smarter every video I watch. Now, retaining. You're very knowledgeable. Hope your tendons heal quickly 😊
Another excellent video Fil. It's absolutely true that if the singer (or instrumentalist) has just recorded a fantastic 'keeper' take, but, there is one word that was not quite right e.g. out of tune or phrasing/timing issue, then they have had the ability to re-record that single word for many years, even going way back into the analogue era. Here, the artist would simply record - onto another track - a few seconds before to a few seconds after the 'problem' section. The engineer would then simply comp (compile) the corrected section with the rest of the keeper take. Extremely easy to do with digital recording (set record punch in/out to cover the problem word). This has been a very acceptable practice way before the digital audio era began since it preserves almost the entirety of that original keeper take while allowing the artist to correct very minor sections. Of course, all these artists delivered a truly(!) live gig at every concert - they were all very seasoned professional musicians. Contrast this with what we see today, and what Fil has been demonstrating in this series so very well, where Autotune (Antares) - and manual tuning (Celemony Melodyne) - has been so grossly abused, to the point, where much of what you can purchase/hear today is by 'artists' who, quite literally, cannot sing live. Fil - can you show the audience a taste of the studio's 'real' manipulation tool - Melodyne? That'll make for a real eye-opener...!!!
I haven't used it myself, I don't use vocal pitch correction or auto-tune personally so I've had to get up to speed with at least being able to demonstrate those!
Not only is this girl beautiful, but her vocals are amazing. I love this song ,and she gives me goosebumps. Absolutely ❤️ this singer . I’ve noticed that Alicia Keys has this natural break in her voice. I’d love to see her live ! I learn something new every time I tune in Fil . She also appears to be an incredible human being as well. She’s so into it, she’s just allowing it to flow , as it comes across with such emotion . Well you may as well be honest,and it goes to show you a lot about who she is . ❤️
Another great video. As a tool to correct occasional errors and used properly, Autotune is absolutely valid. I have used it on solo instruments which are not concert pitch and stringed instruments with imperfect intonation, and it is great at that.
Fascinating. As a listener, I really don't care if the occasional sung note is a bit sharp or flat, as it sounds more "authentic" and soulful anyway. If a vocal performance is so bad that it is consistently out, then it needs to be redone and redone until it's nearer the mark. I assume this is the technology that producers also use when recording orchestras, where there are bum notes that are audible enough to be annoying on the final recording, even if they are normal in a live performance
She's still pretty much spot on most of the time, sometimes really snapped to the grid, much more than Freddy Mercury for instance IIRC your other video. Thanks for the great content.
On catch up here. I've studied music theory and took formal lessons, though have little knowledge of the recording and production aspects. Thanks for clarifying the difference between autotune and pitch correction. In some ways, I wonder if modern technology really helps to bring out the best of one's talent. Again thanks for the music education...cheers!🎵
Hey Fil, so glad you're doing these videos. For years I have been listening to these phenomena wondering if no one cares or if listeners simply don't hear the obvious. I love how you point out the (at first glance) almost inaudible difference in pitch quality in the mid section and mention the vocoder credit that might explain it. Thank you for having fun educating us about pitch and about how people tamper with it to create the illusion of super talented singers. Looking forward to your next video.
Fun fact. Pitch correction was done in the seventies by "dumping" the vocals on to 1/4 tape, and using the pitch control on the machine and "punching" in the words on to the multitrack. In the late eighties, when the sound quality in "samplers" became good enough, we sampled bits of words and using the pitchwheel on the keyboard to correct it. Allso, using chorus effect, pitching up and down at the same time, by a few cents, mixed in on the vocal track, camouflaged the pitch. It was a massive job at times ;)
Good job Fil, this is what I was saying people need to see to be able to understand the differences between the two, and I hope this gets a good response because the demonstration was good!
AnettMari Hi, if you haven't listened to any of Fil's original or cover songs here are some to enjoy! British guitarist releases his own 'Haunted' lyric video! ruclips.net/video/awyCbngbCDk/видео.html Wings of Pegasus - That's Metal (to my ears) ruclips.net/video/FXK75hkwHKo/видео.html British guitarist attempts to cover Eagles Classic 'Hotel California'! ruclips.net/video/LXXLZVTk6is/видео.html Behind Blue Eyes - The Who (Wings of Pegasus Cover) ruclips.net/video/3EFvAcf7oao/видео.html
I have difficulty separating skill and talent from style when critiquing music. It’s a constant struggle. Alicia Keyes’ style just doesn’t appeal to me. She’s like many contemporary singers who sound like they try too hard. When not trying to belt out every note their voices are breathy and cracking which result in an overly emotional sound. The same can be said of musicians who play other instruments. Guitar is a good example. For some it’s about speed and others about nuance. Fortunately we have a wide variety of artists to choose from. Regardless of my own opinions on Alicia Keyes, I find Fil’s videos educational and entertaining.
There are a few clarifications you should make. A vocoder is NOT like autotune…. Nor does it sound like autotune. It is a synth sound in which the sibilance and envelope is modified by separate vocal input. No actual voice is left in the final sound. Example “Mr Roboto” by Styx. Midi triggered vocal harmony is a separate effect. It uses triggered sibilance corrected pitch shifted harmonies to create an effect distinct from a vocoder. The harmonies are actual pitch shifted vocals, often including the original unshifted vocal part. Example: “Hide and Seek” by Imogene Heap Pitch correction whether it be by Melodyne or Antares Autotunei are very similar to each other. The only difference is that Antares Autotune is able to be used in a live situation. Both Autotune and Melodyne have the ability to snap to grid of a particular key, increase or decrease how fast the effect takes place, allow for a predetermined variance, only edit particular notes, and even create that glitchy robotic sound if so desired. The only difference is how they are used. Melodyne, as a DAW plugin is primarily used in studios, and specializes in being able to surgically edit tracks. Antares Autotune on the other hand, is both a plugin and a hardware processor that allows for instantaneous live use, and a more across the board usage. Other than that, they are essentially the same effect. Unfortunately, you create an artificial distinction between the two by showing examples of Melodyne done well, and Autotune done poorly. I would venture to say that many of the examples of Melodyne “pitch correction” were in fact well used Antares Autotune. Finally let me add, that although I’m quite familiar with Melodyne and both the hardware and software versions of Antares, I share with you a distaste for either.
the Eventide H910 Harmonizer, which was introduced in the 1970s, it had pitch correct.....Journey's "Wheel In The Sky" album and Boston's first album used the tech to "tighten up" the vocals. Correct?
Another great episode Fil! I understand the physics of what you have been explaining over the past weeks, but it was eye-opening to actually see how easy it is...yikes!
Alicia is a wonderful singer and such a genuine down to earth person. I had the pleasure of meeting her in 2013 for the FAME documentary she was a part of. I already knew the difference of auto tune and pitch correction having worked in a studio and I’m a musician but I love seeing your examples and you giving longer in depth discussions about them.
Fill, thanks man. As a teacher a former coach I can tell when someone cares about their craft. The Expedition about autotune vs pitch correction and Pitch correction implemented by someone with an ear versus someone who just pushes a button is a learning experience. I'm so old school and I think if we didn't use all this crap this wouldn't be necessary but I will concede if pitch correction is used by a producer with a really good ear the corrections are at least not mechanical. So I understand it better but guess what, I want no part of it. Lol. I want a band I want an artist regardless of genre to Lay It Down live with the other musicians involved in the recording. But I realized that the world doesn't revolve around me. I just feel bad for the last two generations that have been brought up on what some producers call Perfect music. Poor appreciations of nuance or may grow to the point where they see I sharp or flat as making the recording unacceptable. Please do everyone a favor. Explore everyone to Stevie Wonder's talking book. And yeah I realize that for the most part he was playing most of the instruments so you don't have five musicians playing together live. You have to have overdubs period and everything pretty much starts with drums and bass. But it's all organic and the voice is all Stevie Wonder. usual beatlefan as I am I would say 1971 was a time when vocalist in many genres were allowed to do their thing. Because there was no enhancement option, the option was let's do another take. I've seen Rick beato who I have a lot of respect for discuss Auto-Tune and he was honest enough to say when he was producing giving the budget and the recording time for the band it was a necessity. I love the guy but I think it was the fall of great music. If an artist or band has pitch that is off then they're not ready to be in the studio. If they're young maybe they just need to play live in small venues a little bit more and develop their pitch and there ear like the Beatles. I mention the Beatles only because just about everyone knows who they are 59 years later. But there are many artists from different generations and different genres that develops better pitch because they performed live in small venues period and also have played lots of cover songs. And covering famous songs demands a perfect sound so to speak. The bands I grew up with started off their careers having cover other people perfectly. Springsteen and his band before he became popular were asked by the people that ran The Stone Pony if they could back up Chuck Berry. Chuck Berry had no tolerance for anyone that didn't know his music. See the film hail hail rock and roll. He expected a backup band to know exactly the hell the song should sound like and then leave with a brown bag full of cash. The last part is what got him in trouble with the IRS sadly. Honestly I don't think the Beatles would have become anything without those two years in Hamburg. It's just like an athlete especially when you're young and you're approaching your Prime. Repetition repetition repetition. Then for the musician that has all the tools if he or she knows the sheet music There's an opportunity to improvise. I know this is an educator first you have to learn the sheet music or in genre the curriculum. Whether it's music or education or acting if you've been working at it long enough and you have everything to memory , now you can freelance when the opportunity presents itself. I guess it's a type of process that it goes across all genres. Master the sheet music and then you can relax and amazing things happen. Look at the get back sessions and then tell me I'm wrong.Fil you put a lot of time into this and don't think it's not appreciated or admired. I haven't had an opportunity to listen to your music but the few times you want to make a musical point and then just use your own voice I like what I hear. Thanks man!
Pitch Correct started back in and around 1979. Strange that suddenly there was MTV and a slew of one hit wonders who were more into fashion, haircuts and dancing instead of music.
If you mean cutting and splicing tape, it started back before then. Auto tune was released in 1997. Melodyne (pitch “correction”) was introduced at the 2001 NAMM convention.
Oftentimes people refer to Sohang as a great singer, and maybe she is, but every time I've seen her videos the autotune or pitch correction is obvious. The most recent that I watched is Bridge Over Troubled Water. Then I watched a reaction video, or half of it, to it by a voice teacher who says he has a best selling book on Amazon. He goes crazy over her voice, analyzing the techniques and subtleties. I posted a comment to the effect that how can an analysis overlook the obvious pitch correction applied to her voice--one example is he raves about one thin extended line that has no vibrato and is perfectly in pitch, when it's obvious to me those "qualities" are because of autotune.
I'm posting this typo correction here in a reply to my own comment because on RUclips if one does an edit, the comment becomes unhearted. There were couple extra words, a preposition followed by a pronoun, in this sentence, which I've corrected here: "Then I watched a reaction video, or half of it, by a voice teacher..."
Your channel may be 1 of the few good things to come out of Covid. Thank you, I have learned so much and enjoyed doing it. Take good care of yourself and Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!!
Your content has really grown since I first saw the channel. Obligatory basic comment #23.7 But seriously, thanks for pointing all this out. I think it's really important.
Over long years of listening, I've developed my own esoteric criteria for judging vocal performance that has more emphasis on consistency and command of dynamic control than pitch and timing (to a reasonable threshold of 'error' in my subjective hearing, absolutely taking implied style or genre into account, naturally - no one, I hope, expects a jazz or blues singer to be bang on the note, bang on the meter?). Auto-Tune, except when being employed clearly for effect, completely bugs my ears. Sneaky, judicious employment of pitch correction, not so much because I sympathize with singers who, perversely, become more nervous/self-conscious in the studio setting then ever they do on stage - I'm my best/worst frenemy in that regard). When I hear Auto-Tuned singers, I don't automatically leap to "it's because this singer is a hack," but "too bad, I'd rather hear them, 'flaws' and all (unless they are a hack)." When we edit the vocal track too much, we lose what distinguishes the human voice from instruments designed to be tuned to within ±cents of even-temperament beyond the ability of 99% ears to distinguish anyway.
Great video Phil, I am a fairly good guitarist now 69 soon and have videos under thejmillsband i.e. Boss ST2 stack,classical,fingerstyle and some shred,but unfortunately I suck at singing for the most part. I actually had the band members yrs back turn off my microphone (and it was my P.A.),so I have an Antares Autotune,and older Digitech,and a rackmount TC Helicon and TC Helicon Extreme, but the reason I mentioned that was because I've tried putting them in series so that at each stage the waveform gets a little closer to being on key, or at least I thought that's how it would happen.Long story short is that I still suck for the most part at singing,although I have had a few good songs (when I was in the zone lol).I appreciate all of your videos as they are all very well done.
I have to say personally I'd rather people didn't auto tune and heavily edit studio music. I hate when live sounds nothing like the group you think you love. That's such an upsetting experience and probably why I've been to so very few live concerts.
I think its a real shame that technology has taken us into this type of thing. I personally think they shouldn't be messing with auto tune or pitch correction. Back in the day when I was a kid/teenager, in the 60's and 70's, the artists had to be good. No auto tune, or pitch correction meant you got the real deal. So there were hardly any surprises at a concert unless the artist had a cold or something like that. Look at Jeff Lynne. He started touring again in the 2000's, and sounded great! Sure, he may have had to change his approach to some of his songs, later when it got closer to 2019 but I'd say its very easy to give him a pass on some of that stuff because its a great thing to still be able to belt out some of the songs he has created at the age of 70+. Singing falsetto isn't easy to maintain as we age. I used to be able to do it 30 years ago, but cannot even remotely hit those notes anymore. I have a lot of respect for the artists that can still do it into their 50's and 60's not to mention into their 70's!
Great video as always, but I feel there's some confusion with the terminology and methods used: - I think the point of the video is the difference between "automatic pitch correction" and "manual pitch correction" (not "Auto-Tune and Pitch Correction", which sounds very confusing) - "Pitch correction" could refer to Logic's built-in plugin, but also to the general practice of correcting the pitch of vocals and instruments. It doesn't necessarily mean that the process is 100% automatic. Correcting only specific notes could also be called "(manual) pitch correction". - "Auto-Tune" is, in its strictest meaning, a piece of software by Antares. It was the first piece of software to allow the automatic (or easy manual) tuning of vocals or instruments. Of course it's nowadays commonly used to refer to the general practice of altering the pitch of vocals and instruments after recording, but I feel that if you write it like "Auto-Tune", it refers specifically to the piece of software, not just generally to any pitch correction. And to make things even more confusing, Auto-Tune (the software) is not used in this video. - Auto-Tune (the software) has two modes: Auto (the default), which automatically fixes out-of-tune notes and works basically just like Logic's Pitch Correction, and Graph, which allows you to manually tune only the notes/parts you wish. - There's really no reason to use Logic's ancient Time and Pitch Machine and destructive editing any more, since Logic has Flex Pitch, which allows much more intuitive and flexible non-destructive pitch (and time) correction. Of course Flex Pitch (and Auto-Tune's Graph mode, and Melodyne etc) give you a lot more visual feedback, which makes it more difficult to use "just your ears", but directly editing the original audio data is just very cumbersome and often unnecessary nowadays.
For studio recordings over dubs have been around for years but making a vocal sound better after the fact is misrepresentation. More respect for artists whose vocals aren't autotuned.
I don't know Alicia Keyes. AutoTune/Pitch correction is interesting. All I know is latrine acoustics and echo added to recordings & live performances. I remember a singer saying in 1980's to sound man that he could use a little help that night. Whether pitch or auto I dunno. Maybe echo? (Forward echo on a tape recorder is unique.) I remember once I tied a string to small transistor radio and twirled it around and the sound of music was like a rotating speaker which it was. Many years later I read that one of the Ventures said that on "Walk Don't Run 64" that the organ sound on the record was not an organ but a saxophone played through a Leslie Rotating Speaker. Hats off to you for trying to teach me what's going on in recordings and live performances. Good luck on your hand! 🎼🎸🎹
Don't know how long these tools were available but was wondering what your thought was about Karen Carpenter and Barbra Streisand. These are singers I grew up listening to and have enjoyed. Thanks for posting FIL. You have a new subscriber😎👍
Nice, clear explanation, Fil, and an added bonus (redundant? 😋) is that I had recently watched your discussion of Karen Carpenter’s amazing ability to be pitch-perfect, so it’s interesting to see two radically-different approaches that are both highly musical, yet come from two different planets, so to speak 😎!
Fil your ability to explain Music and Vocals is amazing!! Thank you so much!!!!! Your Appreciation for Music in General And in so many different Genres is Absolutely amazing! May THE DIVINE BLESS YOU AND Yours ALWAYS!!!!!! Love Randy AKA JAMES WALKER
Loved this. I just purchased the Melodyne studio and absolutely love it. I usually sing well but wave files don't lie! It's a great tool to fix some flat or sharp notes that are noticable. Otherwise I leave it alone. But you're right, if you overdo it, it becomes robotic. Thanks bro
Great stuff Fil...pitch correction is definitely a good tool - I've used it in the past. Agree 100% it should be done by ear like you say though, and used in moderation.
Pitch correction and soul.. First, thank you again for explaining in a real way what pitch correction does and why it is not like other effects that are artistic choices. The following is just a continuation of my thoughts not a knock on your pitch correcting the Alicia Keys sample as an example.. Its interesting to me when you pitch corrected the section where Alicia is a bit flat, though it sounds more perfect it has lost something in the feeling. Side by side/before and after I can definitely feel and hear something lost there when the pitch correction is done. A machine device simply cannot, it appears to me as technology stands, pitch correct and not compromise the human expression of the original vocal. And this is where I see the danger in this manipulation: Say I purchase this song 20 yrs from now. And an engineer had decided 20 yrs before "Well, thats just flat there, cant have that. Pitch correct, please" I would never know the "feeling" is absent that the original had because now this version for the last 20 yrs has became the standard. Like a frog in slow boiling water, I dont realize that little piece of soul has been diminished. The ultimate result of this is people start listening to more and more music that has no soul. Or at the very least its soul has been compromised. And they dont even realize what they are missing. To me, thats not what art is about. I want to hear that yearning and pleading of what Alicia is expressing and if it being a bit flat is the result of that emotion, then that is a better compromise that the heart and soul of a phrase. Again, imo, if a singer is so blatently off that pitch correction is needed in order to keep them in tune then its time for vocal training and to redo the vocal in another take. Of course there are exceptions. If everything else on a take is amazing and its the "one" in artistic expression and emotion except for those two bum notes, then it is what it is and pitch correction may be the tool to save the take. But Id think that is an exception rather than the norm. On another note.. I wonder if one day, like the gated drum sound of the 80s, artists will regret using autotune? And it will date the music to a particular time. And not in a good way.
I knew of a piano tuner, a very famous one, who would tune pianos a bit high. Visiting concert pianists loved to come here to perform because he made them sound more energetic. And they would play better as a result. He was hired to travel the world tuning for contests and other special events. Vocal music would be rather bland if everything was spot on pitch. Alicia sings with such joy that going a bit sharp would be natural. All respect to her for letting her fans know when she uses technology to tweak her voice.
I remember watching a video (I think it was "delicate-making of a song" or something like that) where MSG are in the studio, Swift is singing, Martin is playing a keyboard and making the pitch of her voice go up and down in the recording. Now I know what that's called. Not saying she needs it either, in that song it's very obviously just a "fun" effect. Other times, though, she has used auto tune just as a correction.
Excellent demonstration! If pitch correction were done manually and by ear like you demonstrated, music today wouldn't sound so artificial. I've learned so much watching your videos! I think the pressure to be perfect all the time has to play into obviously good singers using auto tune. Or maybe it is more accurate to say sound engineers/music producers rely on it. It's a complicated issue.
Look at the way singers look today as compared with in the past. Before, some were beautiful, some attractive enough, some average. Now, they are all models, with maybe a few exceptions. It’s obvious the stars of today are not chosen for their vocals.
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️ Hello Dear, How you feeling today?? Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
Haha I was just saying the same thing to someone the other day! Look at Bing Crosby. Not the most "attractive" guy(to most), but hey - I'd rather a musician is "modified" via hair/makeup/clothing than their actual musical ability. That man could sing like nobody's business. Who cares what he looked like??? IMHO, any level of pitch correction or auto-tune is downright wrong. Some #%*! is getting famous when they can't sing / play / whatever, meanwhile some brilliant god-level talent person is schlepping out a meagre living or fully quitting music because they can't earn a decent living. Sad times.
Would one go in the Gallery and make touch ups to a painting? A little bristle lines, just fill them in. Micro tones can be audibly pleasant. A record of American blues artists from the last century can be filled with out of tune guitars and pitchy vocals, and sound stunningly brilliant. I love Alicia's work, and wouldn't change a note. Good vid. Ü
Very interesting. I have in the past Run a sound board for live bands but not in several years. I did use different effects on the vocals like echo, and slap back… etc but never auto tune or pitch correction. Since you have been making videos about auto tune I have been wondering something that I think you just answered. I do not like a lot of pop music or any rap music but sometimes I have no choice when I hear it at work. I notice something used a lot on a lot of those vocals. I didn’t know if it was some kind of “effect” on their vocals or “auto tune” or “pitch correction” it seems to be pitch correction from what you explained on this video. This is the first I heard pitch correction explained. I do like some of Alicia Keys stuff. She is definitely a talented singer / songwriter / musician. I appreciate the effort you put into your videos. Even though I haven’t run a soundboard in a while I still find interesting . I said all that just to say thank you for your videos. They are entertaining and informative.
Fantastic explanation. Once again, would love to hear you react to Angelina Jordan -- Bohemian Rhapsody being a great place to start. No autotune required . . . .
How about an analysis of Floor Jansen, believed by many to be one of the best vocalists in the world? It could be a studio recording or a live show... Pretty pretty please?:))
Those of us playing live in small venues suffer because of pitch correction. People are so used to hearing every note exactly at pitch on recordings that hearing someone really singing naked live sounds "off" to them even if the performance is quite good.
LOL! And I have an Auto-Tune™️ ad in the top right corner of my screen right now! 😄 "Vocals without limits" it says 😉 And "yay" for mentioning Warren Huart and his channel! Lovely guy, too! 😀 Oh, and 'coincidentally' there's something wrong with *his* left arm, too! May you both heal very quickly! 😌🙌🌈
@@wingsofpegasus - *Weeks* ! Oh dear! 😯 Then again, everything happens for a reason, so maybe you're meant to shift your focus onto other things than 'guitar' at this time, or maybe you're simply meant to relax more!? In any case, don't let it spoil your Christmas! Have a great one, Fil! 😀👍 🎄 ⭐️
(Singer, written in before). I sometimes either intentionally or intuitively, go slightly sharp to give extra stress to the emotion or cry of the particular phrase or note in question. Taking all these subtleties out is taking the humanity, the feeling and the skillset out....
I like to hear a person’s real voice. Slight sharps and flats sound very human. Truly talented singers don’t need auto tune.
And truly beautiful women don't need makeup. 😐
I’ve gathered from working with audio engineering and various vocalists over the years, people with strong opinions about auto tune and pitch correction have little to no clue what they’re talking about.
It doesn’t hide the persons “real voice” when used in moderation (not the way it was displayed in this video) which is the case the vast majority of the time. Great singers use auto tune too in studio and live, shocker..
@@tb1235 Yup. It's the whole "I hate CGI!" argument. The people saying that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. That, and AutoTune ≠ robot effect. It's something it CAN do, sure, but it has a graphical mode and, in fairness, a very capable auto-mode too for simpler jobs. Just crazy that people keep perpetuating the idea that autotune and pitch correction are different things when they aren't.
@@tb1235 Then they're not great singers. Michael Buble's vocals sound ironed out.
@@Psychodermia Not a good analogy. Physical beauty is not an art form that requires work to master. It's also subjective. Accurate pitch is not.
Alicia is honest in her disclosure of her use/non-use of technology. It's all I ask of any artist. Thank Fil for a great breakdown again!
Alicia is ok. But next to Ella Fitzgerald, she's small potatoes.
@@bradhuskers-- really?!?!
@@Ontharock
Yes.
Ella Fitzgerald is an iconic artist of the highest order.
@@bradhuskers why are you comparing the two? Alicia is in her own lane and so is Ella , Alicia is the real deal in a sea of trap singers and autotune
@@Ramonafloyd
I like Alicia also.
But as a realist,,
I know that next to Ella Fitzgerald, she's small potatoes.
It's called, being honest.
Oh thank goodness. I was worried you were going to tell me Alicia was an auto-tune bunny. I think she's fantastic. One of the best soul voices of the last 30 years.
Agreed. Fine set of pipes.
She's ok. But next to Ella Fitzgerald, she's small potatoes.
@@bradhuskers ok captain obvious. Everyone is compared to the goat.
@@gordonschiff3621
It's only obvious to those of us with intelligence. The average person today, is mindless and duped by bullshit propaganda.
@@bradhuskers, she doesn't have to be Ella. They are 2 completely different styles.
If I were a music artist, I would have my contract state that I had the final approval before release. Autotune must be embarrassing to artists with vocal abilities.
I would link you to T-Pain vs. Vocoder (😆) but I forgot it and then I'd send you a link to T-Pain NPR sessions. Pain uses vocoder solely for creative expression but the dude can actually sing. I weep for our next generation of brokedown rage infested Travis Scott stans.
@@humane143imperfection6 The worst part is that they won't have any idea what true talent sounds like. That's really sad.
What if you were offered a 5 million deal, but the studio wants final say. You going to turn it down? :-)
@@wcndave It would probably depend on if I were just starting out or if I were established. Once an artist becomes popular and they have that leverage it becomes a whole new game.
@@charlotteemerson5050 completely agree, however the original contract could be a bugger. Look at Taylor swift for example, huge artist and has to rerecord everything!
Yes, I love her natural voice & cry. Linda Ronstadt was famous for the "cry" in her voice too. I prefer nature vs autotune/voice correction.
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol
Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️
Hello Dear, How you feeling today??
Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
@@alvinscott6627 right back to you sweetheart!
@@tammyburke9453 hey Tammy
hope you have heard her outstanding work on the 3 albums - LUSH LIFE, SENTIMENTAL REASONS, WHAT'S NEW
@@jryecart8017they're magnificent with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra.
Isn't the beauty of the human voice that the slight imperfections can actually enhance the unique sound of the artist?
Also, the resynthesis that occurs with pitch correction alters the natural textural cues that aren't mistakes, and may communicate vital subtle information about the human experience in the real physical world.
And as Fil has pointed out, if pitch is something that needs to be made "perfect" to be good and acceptable ...
Why don't they do auto-tune and pitch correction on guitar solos?
In that case people still seem to understand and appreciate the expression and extra emotion that bending and playing with pitch can provide. But suddenly people seem unable to apply that same idea to voices any more.
As a old fart and metalhead, I think it's time to bend an ear to Alicia Keys music, her voice and vocal delivery is mind blowing and amazing.
I , personally, want to hear the singers real voice all the time. It's just so much better for me. I noticed it before but your analysis just points it out so much more. You begin to wonder if some of these people can actually sing 🤷♀️🤷♀️ thanks again for educating me. Peace!! ✌✌🤘🤘🎅🎅
In all honesty, some of them can’t. But they “look” right and are “saleable” which appears to be all that’s needed today because they can just fix all the lacks in the studio.
@@catzkeet4860 that's probably why I don't know or listen to very many new artists. They all sound the same, to me at least.
Yes, a lot of newer people lip synch in concert to a backing track.
@@catzkeet4860Cough… Selena Gomez..
It’s not difficult to tell if a person can sing well or not. Using pitch correct does not hide the voice, if a person is bad at singing then you’ll hear the pitch correct working overtime. There are also thresholds with utilizing it. Simply tightening the pitchy spots or full on t pain.
I feel like I've been let into a secret world (well, not so secret anymore) through your auto-tune/pitch correction analyses videos. I am a visual learner, and this video was particularly fascinating to me. I also believe that musicians make better producers, because they've got a better 'ear' , so to speak. Very intriguing Fil 👍💜
I like and agree with your comment I'm also visual learner😉👍
@@drewpall2598 Cool!! 🎵🎶🎶🎵🎶🎵🎤 I just sang 'HELLOOOO' 😄
@@cindypowers4993 you sang it in perfect pitch! 😘👍
@@drewpall2598 LOL😄💙
ruclips.net/video/rhgwIhB58PA/видео.html
Nope, I did not know the difference! Yay for Alicia for crediting the Vocoder, that's very cool. Oh hey, look! 217,000 subscribers! Awesome!
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol
Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️
Hello Dear, How you feeling today??
Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
Yay is right! I’m happy she didn’t break my heart. I just love her voice and what a decent human that she is.
@@carlamurray2370 she’s decent and magnificent I must say
Sorry to ask where are you from?
Back in college I did a music production course, so I'm certainly no George Martin but I have vivid memories of working on a recording long into the night; editing and correcting where I needed to etc. and then I realised that the better job I did, the less people would notice. That's the curse of the producer....most people only notice production/editing/egineering if it's done badly. Great producers just make the artist shine even more (which is 100% as it should be of course).
A random marketing idea: make an album without any auto tune or pitch correction, and advertise that on the front.
Might work for one of these new artists who are trying to imitate 90's punk&grunge.
I truly believe the push for autotune and pitch correction stems back to American Idol. Lol. Randy Jackson's favorite line was "Its a bit pitchy, dogg."
I hated that show but my sister loved it, so I usually ended up listening to it while I read. I especially hated when they poured the cringe and made fun of the delusional. I blame singing shows for the downfall of music.
She has an amazing voice even without pitch correction ❤ IMO. Not perfect, but emotional and passionate, so much more engaging to me.
best, most thorough and understandable differentiation between autotune and pitch correction I've heard! I think musicians will always prefer the natural sound over the "robotic" sound of autotune, but the "market" shoves so much of that down the public's throats, few even realize what they're hearing.
Your musical knowledge never ceases to amaze me! love all the little details you point out in all of your analysis videos 👍🤘
One of the bad aspects of using auto tune is that you will have no reason to improve. You will stay mediocre at best. You will not grow as a singer. Singers who are fine with auto tune aren't real true singers. They pull out the very things that make the human voice relatable to others which is their personality. To know the difference between auto tune and pitch correction is nice. However neither of them should be used. I rather work at getting better than becoming lazy. I know the voice will change pitch when you are trying to get something across emotionally and that really is your goal. Music is about feeling. No one says I want to listen to music just to hear the correct notes. We listen to music to feel...to be moved. This is my two cents worth. Fil I appreciate your integrity so very much when it comes to all aspects of music...keep the videos coming.
Agree! Fil's video on Freddie Mercury is a great example, autotuning him kills the feel, emotion, and enjoyment. I think that autotune (AND overuse of pitch correction) is why I don't find most of today's artists very enjoyable to listen to. I know that some corrections are viable, just as mixing and effects, but to via software make someone sing "better" just isn't right in my book.
Just two cents. You can still go up to a hundred. Seriously, though, you are right.
I agree with this unless if it’s an honest, artistic choice.
Me too especially when I’ve been gifted with the most incredible natural soprano voice
That would make sense if people use autotune every time they sing including practice. Don't use pitch correction when practicing.
I could listen to that voice all day and night. There’s so much emotion in this performance. The “flaws” are what make it magical. Love her, and I love the breakdown too. Thanks Fil.
I noticed autotuning strips harmonics and dynamic shading from the voice. This can be described as a lack of warmth or humanity in the performance. I really don't understand how anyone considers the use of autotune as an improvement. I much prefer the natural voice with all the imperfections. The only exception is for artists that cannot sing.
same here. when i record my songs i don't even need autotune.So far it sounds fine in general. the only exception for me might be is when i need to harmonize my vocals
I believe I can shed light on this. Changing pitch without changing speed of playback (or in real time!) Is very complicated and impossible without digital technology. The algorithm needs to essentially generate something that isn't there, because it can no longer play back the original waveform. What it actually does is similar to a type of synthesis called granular synthesis, where it takes a tiny snippet of audio and loops it. What you are hearing is no longer a human voice, you're hearing a very sophisticated synthesiser that uses the original vocal audio as the waveform and the control inputs for dynamics, transients ect. There is no such thing as subtle auto tune. It's either on or off. With it on, it completely annihilates the original audio.
I should clarify, when I say there's no subtle digital pitch correction, I'm talking about the timbre and dynamics. Studios use "just a touch" of pitch correction are only controlling the amount of correction to preserve vibrato. They are only letting it shift the pitch by say 30% closer to the grid lines as opposed to 100% snapped to the grid. But no matter how little it's corrected by, it's still radically altering the timbre and dynamics. I hate it.
The other issue with only partially correcting a vocal for subtlety is that the voice is not a fretted or keyed instrument with tempered tuning. Good singers intonate, just like a bowed instrument player or horn player. They adjust their pitch closer to just temperament, not equal temperament, and make their notes sound good against the backing music regardless of what there pitch looks like compared to precise 440hz equal temperament notes. Slight pitch correction is potentially worse than going full T-pain because it puts the pitches in a no-mans land between equal and just temperament.
BTW, if you don't know, equal temperament is a mathematical compromise to allow a keyed or fretted instrument to play close to (but not completely) in tune in every key. It puts each key an equal amount out of tune in the 12 tone system. As a guitarist who tunes by ear it drives me insane, because if I get one chord sounding perfect, others get really out of tune, and when I use a tuner all chords sound equally dull, lifeless and slightly out of tune. Oh boy, let's take this nasty compromise and apply it to something that is completely free from such limitations, the human voice. Great idea.
@@Patrick-857thank you. I find it patronising when people say subtle pitch correction. Just do another retake. I think Alicia Keys is one of the best singers of the last 20 + years. She has a beautiful tone and timbre to her voice, and she has made some great songs. And I usually hate rnb. 😂 She has more soul songs though.
Thanks for the wonderful reactions you do, Phil. As a self taught musician of 40+ years, my journey started as many do, with the deaf leading the deaf. Week by week, month by month, year by year, we begin to piece together this magical puzzle we call music. Funny stories are often born from discovery. One such instance was a recording session I was doing with my band in the late 80s. Our drummer was freak about accuracy. We had a song that needed hand claps. Four of us huddled around the vocal mic in the vocal booth and began attempting a simple hand clap track on the beginning, solo section, and end vamp of the song. We would listen back and the claps would be a little scattered here and there. The drummer insisted that we get the claps exactly together. Take after take after take after take. Money was flying out the window. Finally, after two torturous hours and a hundred takes, the hand claps were dead on all the way through the song. We went into the mixing room and listened back to our perfection. Guess what?!? The damned hand clap track sounded like one person clapping! We were all hiding behind each other with our claps! We finally went back to one of our sloppiest efforts and kept that.It sounded the best. This intrigued me.
imperfections
This great story reminds me of how too many people get hung up on the idea of "perfection" -- and also, how so many of the great recording artists actually tend to like to work fast, not getting hung up on perfection or overthinking, but trying to capture a feel. They like and appreciate the imperfections that result. That includes people like the David Bowie, Prince, the Beatles, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne ... so it's hard to argue that they are just lazy, or don't know what they're doing.
I remember a video here where Prince's engineer said she laughs when she hears about people spending days trying to get the "perfect" drum sound, because Prince would often give her ten minutes. In another video, Tony Visconti says that on the Bowie classic "Heroes" Bowie wanted a cowbell sound, but didn't want to wait for the engineers to go out and find the perfect cowbell, so they just grabbed a metal tape canister and beat on that. On "Lay Lady Lay" Dylan gave the drummer no time to work out a drum part, but jumped right into recording -- so purely on the spur of the moment, instinctively, the drummer used bongos on the verses and the trapset on the choruses -- and now, in hindsight, that captures the spirit of the whole song. Geoff Emerick, the Beatle's engineer, said that they would often highlight happy "mistakes" and bring them forward in the mix, because they were often really interesting in their "imperfection."
And guess what? Those "imperfect" things work just as well -- or better, because they're different -- and no one can tell the difference.
Wonderful!
@8:22 There should be a gentleperson's agreement in the industry that PC and AT must be disclosed if used. Good on You, Alicia!
I recall David Lee Roth complaining about the 72-track recording equipment because, in his words, you could bring a camel into the studio and get a good vocal track.
I think there's something to be said for that repulsion, because singers _really are_ trying to establish an emotional connection to the listener, one that is deep indeed and I think because of that, integrity should be considered foundational in the art form. Besides, art by definition must embody skill and even mastery. I can put a slab of wood into a CNC machine, load a program, and have it carve a beautiful portrait of The Madonna, but that's not art by any stretch. But I can set up a five-head moulder to make thousands of feet of custom door and window trim, and that is art because it takes skill, a good eyeball, and sometimes a truck-load of intuition* to make that hunk of metal sing. ("The Art of War" ain't about somebody's teenage angst.)
Anyway, kudos to Ms. Keys. I can't stand her music and I got exactly zero joy from hearing her sing, but she is good and it was interesting to see her skill and honesty right there on a graph. Keep that in mind the next time anybody tells you that emotions and humanity can't be expressed with numbers and mathematics.
And cheers to you Fil. Another excellent video for the guy you mentioned at the beginning - the one who isn't into music, that's me, and yet again I sat through the damned thing enjoying it the whole time. And Merry Christmas, or whatever the Hell you celebrate. =^_^=
*Seriously. When you're mixing and matching various cutting knives to match hand-made trim some craftsman made 120 years ago, and 0.1 mm can spell the difference between success and failure...there's no algorithm for that.
You should start a RUclips channel, I'd love to see that process in action.
@@jenniparker1 Sorry, I lost my job to covid. It was a small place with just a handful of people working there; it's still in business, but the owner does all the moulder work. Thanks for the reply! Cheers!
I used to do that myself using a single spindle moulder, put the piece through the moulder many, many times with single blades at different angles to reproduce old moulding patterns. Boss closed us down simply to do with safety insurance and the local builders then had no one to come to when they needed something different.
Loved that job, great satisfaction in making something off the wall, still got all my fingers and thumbs.
@@vmax4steve524 That must have been tricky! Sure is a nice feeling to help people out like that, especially because they're keeping the work of the original craftsman. Cheers!
I'll say it again Fil, you've got an excellent voice man.
Thanks!
I am amazed by this technology show. It makes me marvel at the early pioneers of rock like the producer of some of the 60’s bands who would loop a singer over his own voice to make him sound stronger.
Thank you Fil. It’s amazing the difference between flipping a switch to full blown auto tune and the subtlety of correcting a note or two. I still enjoy those flat and sharp notes that give a song/voice so much more personality. Very well done! 👍🏻
love that Fil used the "can get in the way of what I'm feelin..." lyric to demonstrate the dehumanizing hazards of auto-tune, and the less invasive pitch correction. (ain't nothin like the real thing tho) I appreciate stumbling on those layers
The purpose of a live performance is to incite emotion, the purpose of a recording is to stand up to repeated listening in pristine audio environment. An imperfection that would stick out on repeated listening to a recording would be just a momentary blur in a live performance, immediately flies out the window, often unnoticed.
I agree with what you’re saying. However when an artist relies on studio production so much, their live performances are a night and day difference. That’s the issue I have as a music enthusiast (more than a casual listener, but not an actual musician). I won’t disregard an artist/band that can’t replicate their studio sound while live… but those types of artists are never on preferred list of music.
Exactly
My IQ goes up about 10 points whenever I watch one of Fil's videos. Thanks Fil!
I enjoy these videos so much! For people like me, who know nothing about producing, but love the sound of good vocals, it is very interesting to be able to see what is real and what is not. Thank you and happy holidays!
I have 2 musician brothers that tour around the world. they have declared me “tone deaf” with no remedy in the way…I no longer believe them. I watch your channel bcz I actually understand the point you are making…granted unable to use it bcz,,,.booo-hooo I still can’t hold a note! You are fantastic!
( You might get help by practicing a lot - there’s help on the internet) good luck!
Thank you for taking a look at Alicia! I was happy to hear that her claims were in fact true. I’m a little late to the party, but I made it. Great Analysis Fil!
I liked to learn of another way to use pitch correction in logic. The only thing with this method is it is by ear, if you select flex then select pitch you will be able to see all of the notes as if it was midi, and where it is sharp or flat simply drag up or down to bring it in tune.
I totally appreciate that you make a point to say the app each time now. I downloaded the paid version myself and am totally happy with it..it has increased my confidence a lot using the vocal pitch monitor and you introduced me to this app. Thank you very much again for that
No problem!🙂
@@wingsofpegasusis there an iOS version?
Thank you for the video and great example to explain the difference between the across the board sweeping road roller affect of autotune vs the more selective subtle use of manual pitch correction. Sometimes its difficult to get these concepts without actually hearing them in action👍🏻
Though, imo, the lifting of the pitch on the Alicia Keys example is not needed. And apparently she didnt either. I join your tip to the hat to her.
(Further down Ill express why I think its not needed)
As far as studio vs live in light of the use of autotune, good point. It creates an unrealistic expectation of perfection in which then the live version sounds so different that disappointment can ensue. Unfortunately if a song is so autotuned in the studio, they will just simply cake on the autotune live also. We get a double whammy of never hearing the natural vocal.
On a personal note, when I go to listen and see a live concert, I am happier when there is some variation. It personalizes the art at that moment in time. Bob Dylan is a great example of this. His live work is so much different than the studio. So, for me, I dont seek a perfect copy of the song live from an artist. A bit of stage creativity makes things exciting and artistic imo.
Why I dont think the pitch correction is even needed in the Alicia Keys song...
In the Alcia Keys example, what the slight flatness is to my ears is to create a yearning that she is expressing. Isnt a pleading request usually stated with some depression within the vocal? Some near sadness? So technically flat, but expressively naturally correct.
Again emotional creativity over sterile perfection.
Also, this style of word speak nearly a talking blues lends itself to be wordy. The style itself leans more towards a bit of scatting and leniency to improvise.
Its where the expressive "speak" of the song is just as important as the notes.
Therefore sharp and flat becomes a bit irrelevant as compared to say "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" which has more melodic and choral feel to it. That is, the notes are held out, more defined and simplistic.
So pitch variation of song is more important in one style and structure than another at times.
Art Garfunkel and his straight choirboy type singing as compared to Alicia Key's more blues and trill filled singing are going to result in one case less and another case more pitch variation.
Which, again, is appropriate for each song.
The vocoder and effects for artistic expression..
I think this song style difference I mentioned above might also explain why Alicia used a vocoder on the chorus. While I would have rather heard her sing without that effect, she was creating this more "choral" sound. The chorus switches gears from the more spoken pleading bluesy sound to an acceptance and more dignified response. And with dignity comes more structure.
So the vocoder effect gives a "proper" sound to her voice. You can almost visualize her sitting up straighter as she is expressing clarity and revelation about the songs subject matter.
Hey, even the great Beatles used effects on songs such as ADT, compression, pitch variation, flanging, phasing, even a Leslie speaker. So, yes, I can see why she used it there artistically. Though Id have prefered the work of the voice. Or at least would like to hear the attempt. She is that great of a vocalist that I dont think she needs such tricks. Jim Reeves never needed a vocoder ;). But again thats artistic choice most likely.
Thx Fil. Wow. There are so many intricacies involved with auto tune and pitch correction. I'm becoming smarter every video I watch. Now, retaining. You're very knowledgeable. Hope your tendons heal quickly 😊
Another excellent video Fil. It's absolutely true that if the singer (or instrumentalist) has just recorded a fantastic 'keeper' take, but, there is one word that was not quite right e.g. out of tune or phrasing/timing issue, then they have had the ability to re-record that single word for many years, even going way back into the analogue era. Here, the artist would simply record - onto another track - a few seconds before to a few seconds after the 'problem' section. The engineer would then simply comp (compile) the corrected section with the rest of the keeper take. Extremely easy to do with digital recording (set record punch in/out to cover the problem word). This has been a very acceptable practice way before the digital audio era began since it preserves almost the entirety of that original keeper take while allowing the artist to correct very minor sections. Of course, all these artists delivered a truly(!) live gig at every concert - they were all very seasoned professional musicians.
Contrast this with what we see today, and what Fil has been demonstrating in this series so very well, where Autotune (Antares) - and manual tuning (Celemony Melodyne) - has been so grossly abused, to the point, where much of what you can purchase/hear today is by 'artists' who, quite literally, cannot sing live.
Fil - can you show the audience a taste of the studio's 'real' manipulation tool - Melodyne? That'll make for a real eye-opener...!!!
I haven't used it myself, I don't use vocal pitch correction or auto-tune personally so I've had to get up to speed with at least being able to demonstrate those!
In the words of my Music Professor, going sharp is much better than going flat.
If I miss what note I’m hitting I tend to be sharp but I can usually tell
When used without disturbing the artists live expression it's artistically helpful. Thanks for your breakdown Fil, cool.
Rock !
Not only is this girl beautiful, but her vocals are amazing. I love this song ,and she gives me goosebumps. Absolutely ❤️ this singer . I’ve noticed that Alicia Keys has this natural break in her voice. I’d love to see her live !
I learn something new every time I tune in Fil . She also appears to be an incredible human being as well. She’s so into it, she’s just allowing it to flow , as it comes across with such emotion . Well you may as well be honest,and it goes to show you a lot about who she is . ❤️
Another great video. As a tool to correct occasional errors and used properly, Autotune is absolutely valid.
I have used it on solo instruments which are not concert pitch and stringed instruments with imperfect intonation, and it is great at that.
Fascinating. As a listener, I really don't care if the occasional sung note is a bit sharp or flat, as it sounds more "authentic" and soulful anyway. If a vocal performance is so bad that it is consistently out, then it needs to be redone and redone until it's nearer the mark.
I assume this is the technology that producers also use when recording orchestras, where there are bum notes that are audible enough to be annoying on the final recording, even if they are normal in a live performance
Got to see Alicia live in a more festival type setting. She kills made me a fan. Just a super talent.
She's still pretty much spot on most of the time, sometimes really snapped to the grid, much more than Freddy Mercury for instance IIRC your other video. Thanks for the great content.
Consistency shows ability
On catch up here. I've studied music theory and took formal lessons, though have little knowledge of the recording and production aspects. Thanks for clarifying the difference between autotune and pitch correction. In some ways, I wonder if modern technology really helps to bring out the best of one's talent. Again thanks for the music education...cheers!🎵
Hey Fil, so glad you're doing these videos. For years I have been listening to these phenomena wondering if no one cares or if listeners simply don't hear the obvious. I love how you point out the (at first glance) almost inaudible difference in pitch quality in the mid section and mention the vocoder credit that might explain it. Thank you for having fun educating us about pitch and about how people tamper with it to create the illusion of super talented singers. Looking forward to your next video.
Fun fact. Pitch correction was done in the seventies by "dumping" the vocals on to 1/4 tape, and using the pitch control on the machine and "punching" in the words on to the multitrack. In the late eighties, when the sound quality in "samplers" became good enough, we sampled bits of words and using the pitchwheel on the keyboard to correct it. Allso, using chorus effect, pitching up and down at the same time, by a few cents, mixed in on the vocal track, camouflaged the pitch. It was a massive job at times ;)
So does that mean that our vocal idols from then really weren't as good as we think? How often did you have to do this?
They used the Eventide Harmonizer too, as pitch correction in the 70´s.
@@revuutubeno.
Omg I LOVE FIL. Every single time without fail I learn, and enjoy learning about music from this ICON.
Good job Fil, this is what I was saying people need to see to be able to understand the differences between the two, and I hope this gets a good response because the demonstration was good!
This channel is so underrated! (Underfollowed maybe 😛)
Stumbling over you Fil, is one of the best things YT has ever given me! 👍😁❤
Thanks!
AnettMari Hi, if you haven't listened to any of Fil's original or cover songs here are some to enjoy!
British guitarist releases his own 'Haunted' lyric video!
ruclips.net/video/awyCbngbCDk/видео.html
Wings of Pegasus - That's Metal (to my ears)
ruclips.net/video/FXK75hkwHKo/видео.html
British guitarist attempts to cover Eagles Classic 'Hotel California'!
ruclips.net/video/LXXLZVTk6is/видео.html
Behind Blue Eyes - The Who (Wings of Pegasus Cover)
ruclips.net/video/3EFvAcf7oao/видео.html
@@drewpall2598 Thanks! I haven't, but I will! 🤩
Great vid and analysis. Its great to see you going flat out to make sharp observations about Alicia's keys ! Keep up the good work !
I have difficulty separating skill and talent from style when critiquing music. It’s a constant struggle. Alicia Keyes’ style just doesn’t appeal to me. She’s like many contemporary singers who sound like they try too hard. When not trying to belt out every note their voices are breathy and cracking which result in an overly emotional sound.
The same can be said of musicians who play other instruments. Guitar is a good example. For some it’s about speed and others about nuance.
Fortunately we have a wide variety of artists to choose from.
Regardless of my own opinions on Alicia Keyes, I find Fil’s videos educational and entertaining.
Just taking this opportunity to wish you all the best for Christmas and thanking you for your content this year. Really great.
There are a few clarifications you should make.
A vocoder is NOT like autotune…. Nor does it sound like autotune. It is a synth sound in which the sibilance and envelope is modified by separate vocal input. No actual voice is left in the final sound. Example “Mr Roboto” by Styx.
Midi triggered vocal harmony is a separate effect. It uses triggered sibilance corrected pitch shifted harmonies to create an effect distinct from a vocoder. The harmonies are actual pitch shifted vocals, often including the original unshifted vocal part. Example: “Hide and Seek” by Imogene Heap
Pitch correction whether it be by Melodyne or Antares Autotunei are very similar to each other. The only difference is that Antares Autotune is able to be used in a live situation.
Both Autotune and Melodyne have the ability to snap to grid of a particular key, increase or decrease how fast the effect takes place, allow for a predetermined variance, only edit particular notes, and even create that glitchy robotic sound if so desired.
The only difference is how they are used. Melodyne, as a DAW plugin is primarily used in studios, and specializes in being able to surgically edit tracks.
Antares Autotune on the other hand, is both a plugin and a hardware processor that allows for instantaneous live use, and a more across the board usage. Other than that, they are essentially the same effect.
Unfortunately, you create an artificial distinction between the two by showing examples of Melodyne done well, and Autotune done poorly. I would venture to say that many of the examples of Melodyne “pitch correction” were in fact well used Antares Autotune.
Finally let me add, that although I’m quite familiar with Melodyne and both the hardware and software versions of Antares, I share with you a distaste for either.
the Eventide H910 Harmonizer, which was introduced in the 1970s, it had pitch correct.....Journey's "Wheel In The Sky" album and Boston's first album used the tech to "tighten up" the vocals. Correct?
Another great episode Fil! I understand the physics of what you have been explaining over the past weeks, but it was eye-opening to actually see how easy it is...yikes!
Alicia is a wonderful singer and such a genuine down to earth person. I had the pleasure of meeting her in 2013 for the FAME documentary she was a part of.
I already knew the difference of auto tune and pitch correction having worked in a studio and I’m a musician but I love seeing your examples and you giving longer in depth discussions about them.
Fill, thanks man. As a teacher a former coach I can tell when someone cares about their craft. The Expedition about autotune vs pitch correction and Pitch correction implemented by someone with an ear versus someone who just pushes a button is a learning experience. I'm so old school and I think if we didn't use all this crap this wouldn't be necessary but I will concede if pitch correction is used by a producer with a really good ear the corrections are at least not mechanical. So I understand it better but guess what, I want no part of it. Lol. I want a band I want an artist regardless of genre to Lay It Down live with the other musicians involved in the recording. But I realized that the world doesn't revolve around me. I just feel bad for the last two generations that have been brought up on what some producers call Perfect music. Poor appreciations of nuance or may grow to the point where they see I sharp or flat as making the recording unacceptable. Please do everyone a favor. Explore everyone to Stevie Wonder's talking book. And yeah I realize that for the most part he was playing most of the instruments so you don't have five musicians playing together live. You have to have overdubs period and everything pretty much starts with drums and bass. But it's all organic and the voice is all Stevie Wonder. usual beatlefan as I am I would say 1971 was a time when vocalist in many genres were allowed to do their thing. Because there was no enhancement option, the option was let's do another take. I've seen Rick beato who I have a lot of respect for discuss Auto-Tune and he was honest enough to say when he was producing giving the budget and the recording time for the band it was a necessity. I love the guy but I think it was the fall of great music. If an artist or band has pitch that is off then they're not ready to be in the studio. If they're young maybe they just need to play live in small venues a little bit more and develop their pitch and there ear like the Beatles. I mention the Beatles only because just about everyone knows who they are 59 years later. But there are many artists from different generations and different genres that develops better pitch because they performed live in small venues period and also have played lots of cover songs. And covering famous songs demands a perfect sound so to speak. The bands I grew up with started off their careers having cover other people perfectly. Springsteen and his band before he became popular were asked by the people that ran The Stone Pony if they could back up Chuck Berry. Chuck Berry had no tolerance for anyone that didn't know his music. See the film hail hail rock and roll. He expected a backup band to know exactly the hell the song should sound like and then leave with a brown bag full of cash. The last part is what got him in trouble with the IRS sadly. Honestly I don't think the Beatles would have become anything without those two years in Hamburg. It's just like an athlete especially when you're young and you're approaching your Prime. Repetition repetition repetition. Then for the musician that has all the tools if he or she knows the sheet music There's an opportunity to improvise. I know this is an educator first you have to learn the sheet music or in genre the curriculum. Whether it's music or education or acting if you've been working at it long enough and you have everything to memory , now you can freelance when the opportunity presents itself. I guess it's a type of process that it goes across all genres. Master the sheet music and then you can relax and amazing things happen. Look at the get back sessions and then tell me I'm wrong.Fil you put a lot of time into this and don't think it's not appreciated or admired. I haven't had an opportunity to listen to your music but the few times you want to make a musical point and then just use your own voice I like what I hear. Thanks man!
Pitch Correct started back in and around 1979. Strange that suddenly there was MTV and a slew of one hit wonders who were more into fashion, haircuts and dancing instead of music.
If you mean cutting and splicing tape, it started back before then. Auto tune was released in 1997. Melodyne (pitch “correction”) was introduced at the 2001 NAMM convention.
This explains why I always thought her singing on this song sounded a little pitchy.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think a little pitch correction here and there is okay. Sounds more natural than auto tune.
Oftentimes people refer to Sohang as a great singer, and maybe she is, but every time I've seen her videos the autotune or pitch correction is obvious. The most recent that I watched is Bridge Over Troubled Water. Then I watched a reaction video, or half of it, to it by a voice teacher who says he has a best selling book on Amazon. He goes crazy over her voice, analyzing the techniques and subtleties. I posted a comment to the effect that how can an analysis overlook the obvious pitch correction applied to her voice--one example is he raves about one thin extended line that has no vibrato and is perfectly in pitch, when it's obvious to me those "qualities" are because of autotune.
I'm posting this typo correction here in a reply to my own comment because on RUclips if one does an edit, the comment becomes unhearted. There were couple extra words, a preposition followed by a pronoun, in this sentence, which I've corrected here: "Then I watched a reaction video, or half of it, by a voice teacher..."
Your channel may be 1 of the few good things to come out of Covid. Thank you, I have learned so much and enjoyed doing it. Take good care of yourself and Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!!
Thanks! Merry Christmas!
Now, Alicia is even better... Thank you. Love your vids...
Great stuff, Fil. Thank you. A speedy recovery for your hand and wrist and a happy Christmas.
Thanks! You too!
Your content has really grown since I first saw the channel. Obligatory basic comment #23.7
But seriously, thanks for pointing all this out. I think it's really important.
Over long years of listening, I've developed my own esoteric criteria for judging vocal performance that has more emphasis on consistency and command of dynamic control than pitch and timing (to a reasonable threshold of 'error' in my subjective hearing, absolutely taking implied style or genre into account, naturally - no one, I hope, expects a jazz or blues singer to be bang on the note, bang on the meter?). Auto-Tune, except when being employed clearly for effect, completely bugs my ears. Sneaky, judicious employment of pitch correction, not so much because I sympathize with singers who, perversely, become more nervous/self-conscious in the studio setting then ever they do on stage - I'm my best/worst frenemy in that regard). When I hear Auto-Tuned singers, I don't automatically leap to "it's because this singer is a hack," but "too bad, I'd rather hear them, 'flaws' and all (unless they are a hack)." When we edit the vocal track too much, we lose what distinguishes the human voice from instruments designed to be tuned to within ±cents of even-temperament beyond the ability of 99% ears to distinguish anyway.
I never really considered how good of a singer Alicia really is. This vocal isolation is nice.
Great video Phil, I am a fairly good guitarist now 69 soon and have videos under thejmillsband i.e. Boss ST2 stack,classical,fingerstyle and some shred,but unfortunately I suck at singing for the most part. I actually had the band members yrs back turn off my microphone (and it was my P.A.),so I have an Antares Autotune,and older Digitech,and a rackmount TC Helicon and TC Helicon Extreme, but the reason I mentioned that was because I've tried putting them in series so that at each stage the waveform gets a little closer to being on key, or at least I thought that's how it would happen.Long story short is that I still suck for the most part at singing,although I have had a few good songs (when I was in the zone lol).I appreciate all of your videos as they are all very well done.
I have to say personally I'd rather people didn't auto tune and heavily edit studio music. I hate when live sounds nothing like the group you think you love. That's such an upsetting experience and probably why I've been to so very few live concerts.
Absolutely awesome and fascinating - thank you Fil for another great video. I appreciate you taking your time in explaining.
I think its a real shame that technology has taken us into this type of thing. I personally think they shouldn't be messing with auto tune or pitch correction. Back in the day when I was a kid/teenager, in the 60's and 70's, the artists had to be good. No auto tune, or pitch correction meant you got the real deal. So there were hardly any surprises at a concert unless the artist had a cold or something like that. Look at Jeff Lynne. He started touring again in the 2000's, and sounded great! Sure, he may have had to change his approach to some of his songs, later when it got closer to 2019 but I'd say its very easy to give him a pass on some of that stuff because its a great thing to still be able to belt out some of the songs he has created at the age of 70+. Singing falsetto isn't easy to maintain as we age. I used to be able to do it 30 years ago, but cannot even remotely hit those notes anymore. I have a lot of respect for the artists that can still do it into their 50's and 60's not to mention into their 70's!
Great video as always, but I feel there's some confusion with the terminology and methods used:
- I think the point of the video is the difference between "automatic pitch correction" and "manual pitch correction" (not "Auto-Tune and Pitch Correction", which sounds very confusing)
- "Pitch correction" could refer to Logic's built-in plugin, but also to the general practice of correcting the pitch of vocals and instruments. It doesn't necessarily mean that the process is 100% automatic. Correcting only specific notes could also be called "(manual) pitch correction".
- "Auto-Tune" is, in its strictest meaning, a piece of software by Antares. It was the first piece of software to allow the automatic (or easy manual) tuning of vocals or instruments. Of course it's nowadays commonly used to refer to the general practice of altering the pitch of vocals and instruments after recording, but I feel that if you write it like "Auto-Tune", it refers specifically to the piece of software, not just generally to any pitch correction. And to make things even more confusing, Auto-Tune (the software) is not used in this video.
- Auto-Tune (the software) has two modes: Auto (the default), which automatically fixes out-of-tune notes and works basically just like Logic's Pitch Correction, and Graph, which allows you to manually tune only the notes/parts you wish.
- There's really no reason to use Logic's ancient Time and Pitch Machine and destructive editing any more, since Logic has Flex Pitch, which allows much more intuitive and flexible non-destructive pitch (and time) correction. Of course Flex Pitch (and Auto-Tune's Graph mode, and Melodyne etc) give you a lot more visual feedback, which makes it more difficult to use "just your ears", but directly editing the original audio data is just very cumbersome and often unnecessary nowadays.
For studio recordings over dubs have been around for years but making a vocal sound better after the fact is misrepresentation. More respect for artists whose vocals aren't autotuned.
I don't know Alicia Keyes. AutoTune/Pitch correction is interesting. All I know is latrine acoustics and echo added to recordings & live performances. I remember a singer saying in 1980's to sound man that he could use a little help that night. Whether pitch or auto I dunno. Maybe echo? (Forward echo on a tape recorder is unique.) I remember once I tied a string to small transistor radio and twirled it around and the sound of music was like a rotating speaker which it was. Many years later I read that one of the Ventures said that on "Walk Don't Run 64" that the organ sound on the record was not an organ but a saxophone played through a Leslie Rotating Speaker. Hats off to you for trying to teach me what's going on in recordings and live performances. Good luck on your hand! 🎼🎸🎹
Thanks!
Don't know how long these tools were available but was wondering what your thought was about Karen Carpenter and Barbra Streisand. These are singers I grew up listening to and have enjoyed. Thanks for posting FIL. You have a new subscriber😎👍
Hi, fil did a great Karen Carpenter review some time ago, check it out
Thanks!
I remember listening to Carpenter s in early 70s,. Simon and Garfunkel too, then queen happened,.
I love the imperfections of emotions that great artists give us when they express their humanity 😊
Nice, clear explanation, Fil, and an added bonus (redundant? 😋) is that I had recently watched your discussion of Karen Carpenter’s amazing ability to be pitch-perfect, so it’s interesting to see two radically-different approaches that are both highly musical, yet come from two different planets, so to speak 😎!
My untrained ear picks up on flat notes much better than sharp ones but these videos are helping me.
Thanks once again FIL for your analysis. Love Alicia's voice in its natural state. It's what makes her and other artists unique.
Fil your ability to explain Music and Vocals is amazing!!
Thank you so much!!!!!
Your Appreciation for Music in General And in so many different Genres is Absolutely amazing!
May THE DIVINE BLESS YOU AND Yours ALWAYS!!!!!!
Love Randy AKA JAMES WALKER
Loved this. I just purchased the Melodyne studio and absolutely love it. I usually sing well but wave files don't lie! It's a great tool to fix some flat or sharp notes that are noticable. Otherwise I leave it alone. But you're right, if you overdo it, it becomes robotic. Thanks bro
Great stuff Fil...pitch correction is definitely a good tool - I've used it in the past. Agree 100% it should be done by ear like you say though, and used in moderation.
Hope your wrist heals quickly. Merry Christmas. Interesting presentation as always.
Merry Christmas to you too!
Let's talk about it....Vocoder. I would like to think my comment on an earlier video inspired this video. Nice work Peg.
Pitch correction and soul..
First, thank you again for explaining in a real way what pitch correction does and why it is not like other effects that are artistic choices.
The following is just a continuation of my thoughts not a knock on your pitch correcting the Alicia Keys sample as an example..
Its interesting to me when you pitch corrected the section where Alicia is a bit flat, though it sounds more perfect it has lost something in the feeling.
Side by side/before and after I can definitely feel and hear something lost there when the pitch correction is done. A machine device simply cannot, it appears to me as technology stands, pitch correct and not compromise the human expression of the original vocal.
And this is where I see the danger in this manipulation:
Say I purchase this song 20 yrs from now. And an engineer had decided 20 yrs before "Well, thats just flat there, cant have that. Pitch correct, please" I would never know the "feeling" is absent that the original had because now this version for the last 20 yrs has became the standard. Like a frog in slow boiling water, I dont realize that little piece of soul has been diminished.
The ultimate result of this is people start listening to more and more music that has no soul. Or at the very least its soul has been compromised. And they dont even realize what they are missing. To me, thats not what art is about.
I want to hear that yearning and pleading of what Alicia is expressing and if it being a bit flat is the result of that emotion, then that is a better compromise that the heart and soul of a phrase.
Again, imo, if a singer is so blatently off that pitch correction is needed in order to keep them in tune then its time for vocal training and to redo the vocal in another take.
Of course there are exceptions. If everything else on a take is amazing and its the "one" in artistic expression and emotion except for those two bum notes, then it is what it is and pitch correction may be the tool to save the take. But Id think that is an exception rather than the norm.
On another note..
I wonder if one day, like the gated drum sound of the 80s, artists will regret using autotune?
And it will date the music to a particular time. And not in a good way.
I think you’re dead on!! I know of artists who already regret it and avoiding talking about it. Sonny T
I knew of a piano tuner, a very famous one, who would tune pianos a bit high. Visiting concert pianists loved to come here to perform because he made them sound more energetic. And they would play better as a result. He was hired to travel the world tuning for contests and other special events.
Vocal music would be rather bland if everything was spot on pitch. Alicia sings with such joy that going a bit sharp would be natural. All respect to her for letting her fans know when she uses technology to tweak her voice.
I remember watching a video (I think it was "delicate-making of a song" or something like that) where MSG are in the studio, Swift is singing, Martin is playing a keyboard and making the pitch of her voice go up and down in the recording. Now I know what that's called.
Not saying she needs it either, in that song it's very obviously just a "fun" effect. Other times, though, she has used auto tune just as a correction.
I feel like a investigator together with you. To unmask cheating singers. I learned from you to see autotune now too. Nobody fools me anymore.
Excellent demonstration! If pitch correction were done manually and by ear like you demonstrated, music today wouldn't sound so artificial. I've learned so much watching your videos! I think the pressure to be perfect all the time has to play into obviously good singers using auto tune. Or maybe it is more accurate to say sound engineers/music producers rely on it. It's a complicated issue.
Look at the way singers look today as compared with in the past. Before, some were beautiful, some attractive enough, some average. Now, they are all models, with maybe a few exceptions. It’s obvious the stars of today are not chosen for their vocals.
Sometimes the smallest things in life are the simplest to do. Just Like clicking on this amazing videos and just saying HI! Lol
Everything natural ❤️❤️❤️
Hello Dear, How you feeling today??
Hope everything is Ok with you over there 😊❤️
Haha I was just saying the same thing to someone the other day! Look at Bing Crosby. Not the most "attractive" guy(to most), but hey - I'd rather a musician is "modified" via hair/makeup/clothing than their actual musical ability. That man could sing like nobody's business. Who cares what he looked like???
IMHO, any level of pitch correction or auto-tune is downright wrong. Some #%*! is getting famous when they can't sing / play / whatever, meanwhile some brilliant god-level talent person is schlepping out a meagre living or fully quitting music because they can't earn a decent living.
Sad times.
Yes, you nailed it
Even if somebody doesn't like her style, he or she has to agree, that Alicia Keys is a great and honest artist as one should be
Would one go in the Gallery and make touch ups to a painting? A little bristle lines, just fill them in. Micro tones can be audibly pleasant. A record of American blues artists from the last century can be filled with out of tune guitars and pitchy vocals, and sound stunningly brilliant. I love Alicia's work, and wouldn't change a note. Good vid. Ü
Very interesting. I have in the past
Run a sound board for live bands but not in several years. I did use different effects on the vocals like echo, and slap back… etc but never auto tune or pitch correction. Since you have been making videos about auto tune I have been wondering something that I think you just answered. I do not like a lot of pop music or any rap music but sometimes I have no choice when I hear it at work. I notice something used a lot on a lot of those vocals. I didn’t know if it was some kind of “effect” on their vocals or “auto tune” or “pitch correction” it seems to be pitch correction from what you explained on this video. This is the first I heard pitch correction explained. I do like some of Alicia Keys stuff. She is definitely a talented singer / songwriter / musician. I appreciate the effort you put into your videos. Even though I haven’t run a soundboard in a while I still find interesting . I said all that just to say thank you for your videos. They are entertaining and informative.
A minor pitch correction on the odd note isn’t terrible to alter
Fantastic explanation. Once again, would love to hear you react to Angelina Jordan -- Bohemian Rhapsody being a great place to start. No autotune required . . . .
How about an analysis of Floor Jansen, believed by many to be one of the best vocalists in the world? It could be a studio recording or a live show... Pretty pretty please?:))
Those of us playing live in small venues suffer because of pitch correction. People are so used to hearing every note exactly at pitch on recordings that hearing someone really singing naked live sounds "off" to them even if the performance is quite good.
Thank you for this excellent video! 😎
This contributes greatly to my understanding of what is being done to the music.
Thanks.✌😎
LOL! And I have an Auto-Tune™️ ad in the top right corner of my screen right now! 😄 "Vocals without limits" it says 😉 And "yay" for mentioning Warren Huart and his channel! Lovely guy, too! 😀 Oh, and 'coincidentally' there's something wrong with *his* left arm, too! May you both heal very quickly! 😌🙌🌈
Yes his is a lot more serious, mine is hopefully only a few weeks!
@@wingsofpegasus - *Weeks* ! Oh dear! 😯 Then again, everything happens for a reason, so maybe you're meant to shift your focus onto other things than 'guitar' at this time, or maybe you're simply meant to relax more!? In any case, don't let it spoil your Christmas! Have a great one, Fil! 😀👍 🎄 ⭐️