I didn't know Count Dracula did electronics repair videos! lol Luvvin' it - your accent makes it more interesting contrary to other reviewers opinions!
@@nagynorbert7330 Nope, I can not help you. After my father (and couple months later sadly also my mother) has passed away, I decided that I need a change, so I have moved to Asia.
@@hasiv167 it lasted a week 😢 it went back to the exact same issue, i re done it and killed it for good, i have a few other cards mining and this one is the first dead, it's just bad luck i guess
very nice video! do you have any experience with how to remove an IHS from a Xeon CPU that uses an Indium Alloy (melting point between 130 and 157°C) as the TIM? I'm just trying to remove an IHS safely and not sure how I should proceed. But I guess a pre-heat to 100 and then direct heating of the IHS to 157°C should cause no harm?
It depends on the price of the Xeon chip if I would even try to mess with such thing. If these are one of those old Xeons which are now practically worthless, I would pre-heat the whole chip using an infrared soldering station to around 140C from the bottom, and next take a hot air gun (heatgun) and work on the lid.
Very nice video and good explanation. One question: is it a good idea to use NoClean SMD flux to perform reflow? What about the residue flux below the BGA chip when using the flux you used? Would it do any damage over time?
When you are reflowing a chip, you definitely need no-clean fux. The main idea behind no-clean is that you can use the PCB for years without cleaning it up. This way you do not need to use an ultrasonic cleaner, which would be a must do if you use traditional flux.
It really depends on how much stress you put on the card, and how often it goes through the heat/cool cycle. After a good reflow it should hold at least 3 months. I know that earlier reflows were a joke, but now with really high GPU prices it is worth thinking about it.
I am here watching a video on how to reflow my GFX card... to see that you are reflowing the same GPU I am trying to DIY reflow. GK110-300-A1 and I've got a GK110-300-B1. Wish I had your kit to relfow my GPU. I've got... a heat gun and laser temperature metre.... and no flux. Wish me luck.
Oh boy, I really wish you luck with that thing, you will need it. However, considering how much of a *joke* it is now to buy a new video card, I am not wondering that repairing GPU cards actually now makes more sense then ever, and it should be a lucrative business.
can you please tell me more about the cool-down process ? should be slow or fast ? why do you use those cool down fans ? i trying to build a DIY BGA machine and i'm stuying it. thanks
Sorry for the late reply, but better late then never. So if you look at the temperature profiles published by BGA manufacturers, you will see that they show that there should be a relatively fast cooling profile done in order to reduce chip damage (the chip spends less time at high temperature) and also the solder balls will be more homogeneous if you cool them down faster (no time for the alloy to phase-separate).
Hello and thank you for your explanatory video, I have a question for you regarding the use of a simple basic PID, for example a REX-C100 PID, is it possible to create a complete profile in order to automate the reflowing process, 150 degrees, 200 degrees, 217 degrees, 245 degrees, end of the process while respecting timing. I have not found a French language PdF for this kind of cheap PID. Or it is better to raise the temperature manually, I will use a homemade recovery table with preheating and hot air station with special 45x45 mm head. Thank you for your help
According to my thermocouple what I used during profile development, below the chip the temperature should hit around 220C for 17-22 seconds. This is because 217C is the idealized temperature for clean lead-free solder. However, old solder balls will always be oxidized, so you must go couple degrees above 217C to melt them. Also, I found that it is good to have the solder balls molten for at least 10 seconds, so that they fuse to the PCB and form a good contact. As I wrote, one *must use a thermocouple* to develop a profile. Without a good thermocouple it is a total hit/miss. Also, use at least two thermocouples on different part of the large chips during profile development, so that you see heat distribution.
I am showing the flux in a different video where I go through the tools I use. Long story short, this is a cheap 'fake' version of the Amtech flux. It is a chinese cnock-off made after the original US Amtech brand, but it is still very good. Most likely the original Amtech would work even better.
Hello, thank you for a video I would like to try the same thing on my motherboard chip with a heat gun. What is the name of the soldering paste you use?
@donkey learning it do you know how I can find someone to do a similar repair to my 1080? i need a memory module reflow'd and the capacitors around it. and how much do people charge for something like that these days?
Excellent Video, Thanks for you great info. it was very generous from you. I just have one Question. I am struggling with some motherboards that bent with the reflow temp. can you advise me how to avoid that? again, A big thanks to you and your generosity. Thanks
By bending which type of bend are you referring to? Does the mobo hang down, or does it curl up? In any case, the warping comes from *uneven heat* between the bottom and the top, and most of the time it is being caused by not enough preheat from the bottom.
Hello I have tried reflow to my artifacts GPU and first time it was good and after 5 days GPU go artifacts again. So i tired again with heat gun and using flux and I clean the flux with methylated spirit alcohol by sinking GPU. But nothing comes to my monitor showing no signal. How can i fix. Pls help me. Thanks
Methylated spirit alcohol??? lolol Are you trolling?? It's here on the video... Use ISOPROPYL alcohol!!! Other alcohols have water in them! You know what water does to electronics right?? The heat gun process is a cheap, un-exact and hit/miss solution!! Yeah you got lucky the first time anddddd... Of course... It worked for a couple of days!!! Because it was a cheap fix to begin with. Unless you have a reflow/reball station idk what to tell you... Try again with the heat gun?! Make sure you heat all the sides evenly, use good Flux and Isopropyl alcohol. Other than that, you either have a reflow/reball station and ultimately... Do an actual Reball. At this point though... You can be wasting more money in repairs than buying a new GPU. And buying a new GPU will eventually have to come in play for sure. You can't be reviving 10 year old GPU's because games are very demanding now
I made a small graphics card GPU repair station with lower and upper probe on the PCB, using a hot air station, but I do not know the ideal profile perfectly well, I have a diagram showing the gradual rise in temperature and the maximum time to be respected according to the temperature levels, could you explain to me the temperature preheating procedure taken by the probe below the PCB, I suppose that we start by preheating the PCB, but until 'at what ideal temperature 110 degrees maybe? how quickly should this temperature be reached? and important question the preheating phase remains active when you start heating from above until reflowing 245 degrees? After reflowing is complete, can the PCB be allowed to cool slowly or does it have to be cooled with a fan? Thank you sir for your video and especially for your help
Well, although the BGA manufacturers will show you an ideal temperature profile, the reality is that it would require lots-and-lots of tuning to get it close to the given profile for each particular chip. Thus, for repair you just try to be "good-enough" for most chips. The idea behind heating up the board slow to 110C is to gradually remove any moisture from the chip, because water boils at 100C, which causes popcorning of the chip. Bottom heat is one of the *most* important ones in a rework. About 70-80% of the heat should come from the bottom, and only 30% from the top heater. Otherwise the board will bend like a banana, and the BGA chip will never sit right on the PCB. Thus, you definitely have to keep the bottom heat on during the whole process, including infrared preheaters. As for the cooldown, the cooldown actually need to be done quickly, using forced air, so that the balls solidify quickly. This improves the bond quality, since the solder alloy will stay more homogeneous. Especially the lead-free solder tend to phase-separate if it is cooled down slowly, which leads to breaking of the solder balls/joints.
I understood you correctly, but as I am a beginner in this matter and I am building a BGA station with 450W preheating with regulator, upper heater with hot air welding machine, lower and upper double probe on the PCB and a big fan to cool the PCB very quickly, I still have a few questions for you. 1- the soldering profile, are these the temperatures measured on the PCB and not read on the hot air welding machine? 2- (very important) -Can I first preheat the PCB up to 110 degrees and then start reflowing with my hot air desoldering station with max 235 degré, no risk of damaging the electronic components with the preheating and the higher reflowing? 3-The respect of the temperature stages and the duration of the stages without PID will be very difficult to respect taking into account the homemade station, it is possible to use a PC with software and a low-cost USB interface, but I do not failed to find this. I found a video where a person used a small electronic circuit without a single channel case, the problem he did not indicate the electronic circuit number, would you have any idea about this considering a budget very tight? 4-Last question on your station and below the PCB, you have a kind of horn with a central screw to avoid deformation, is it hot air coming out? I thank you very warmly for the help you will give me in this complex matter.
Hi could you please tell me what are the times - how long do you keep the card at 90 degrees for the water vaporization, or how long do you keep the card at 255 degrees? I would like to repeat the process with a hot-air gun that has adjustable temp. Thanks!
@@ajsdfk No. Tried 2 cards. I followed the instructions as best as I could and wasn't able to make them work. Also there are a lot of videos that even if it does work it it only a temporary fix and it will break again.
Uhh, I remember that setting up the profiles on these controllers was tricky, for the temperature ramp I actually had to divide the initial and the desired temperature by seconds. However, I have moved about 2 years ago to Asia, and the IR reworking station is in storage in the EU, so sadly I can not tell you more. However, I just have read through the PDF documentation of the controller to set it up. If you follow the temperatures and the time intervals from the video, you should be able to set up the same.
I have this gtx 980ti reference after I purchased for $20,my motherboard give me first long beep then give normal second beep and normal third beep which didnt boot,so should I have to reflow,(nice video keep it up :3)
If the rest of your system works with an other graphics card, you should definitely try to reflow it. Though, I must say, on modern GPUs when they need a reflow/reball most of the time they work at least in 2D modus, and only die or generate artifacts in 3D. Most of the time when a graphics card is beeping from the very start, that often means that the GPU was killed via overclocking/overvolting. Still, try to get lucky and reflow it. Do *not* spend your time on reballing it, except if you want to learn reballing. Otherwise financially it is a waste of time&money.
Donkey Learning IT my 670 only died in 3d. Is there a decent way to do this without paying someone to use a proper machine? Is a heat gun or oven really a good idea? Is it worth buying a heat gun with temperature control?
Hi. Correct me if I'm wrong, the board and chip has to be preheated to 90 to 100 celsius for how many seconds or minutes with the platform inclined to how many degrees? How far should the nozzle or tip be to the GPU? Should the paste be applied around the chip or just at the top of the incline? Also when you're reflowing, what's the temperature of the nozzle/tip, how far should it be to the GPU and how long should you heat it at 255 Celsius I believe? What is the blower's setting? Is it at maximum? What's the melting point of the GPU solder anyway in Celsius? Thank you. God bless, Proverbs 31
The board should be as flat as possible, there is *no inclination* involved here. When you apply the flux around the warm chip, it will be sucked below the chip due to surface tension and capillary effect, and not due to gravity. Now concerning the temperatures and the time intervals, I must say that everybody *has to figure this out* on his/her own for the particular machine using thermocouples and doing systematic tests. It does not even make sense for giving values here, since it will radically differ from machine to machine, even within the same series. As for the distance, I use six 1Euro coins to set the distance between the nozzle and the PCB. Namely, I stack three coins on top of each other on the PCB on two opposite sides of the chip, and put the nozzle down until I touch the top coins on both side. I fix the nozzle there, and remove the coins. This way I know, that the distance is systematically the same, since I used the same distance for developing the profiles with external thermocouples.
Yep, you can see that the GPU stress test is running fine. Of course, a reflow will not hold in the long run. If one plays heavily with the card, I would expect that it will crash again in 3-4 months. Longer solutions are either reball (no longer worth it for cheap cards) or buy a new card.
This is why having a thermosensor is really important for profile development. Btw, I find the 300C a bit too much. However, as you see, I also had to crank my unit way above the melting temperature of the solder to reach around 220C at the chip. Also, keep in mind that the distance of the nozzle from the chip makes a LARGE difference!
Nope, that is not a good idea. However, in the case of hot air just because the hot air is around 300C, that does not mean that the component is also at 300C, since there is always a temperature difference between the hot air nozzle and the chip. This is why you need temperature sensors on the board when you develop a profile.
@@DonkeyLearningIT thanks for your point. At first, I'm perplexed also if the set temperature in hot air is the same also to the component being heated. Better have a sensor for temp guide.
To avoid delamination (popcorn) due to trapped water vapor expansion, what I do is the cheap solution. The cheap solution is, that you use a really long (in my case about 20 minutes) BGA profile, where the first 10 minutes are there to *slowly* heat up the chip and keep it around 90Celsius so that most of the water vapor can escape. Also, before I heat up the chip, I drawn it several times in water-free acetone. Water-free acetone is a bit more expensive than average-Joe acetone, but it will draw out water because water will always try to mix with acetone. Rubbing about 5 times water-free acetone on the chip with a cotton bud will do the trick. Warning: average-Joe acetone or even methyl-ethyl-ketone which contains water will *not work* . The best solution would be to "bake" the boards in an oven set at 85Celsius for about 12-16 hours. This solution uses lots of electricity, plus you will need an oven where temperature can be regulated fairly accurately.
I only worked with IR+Hot air machines. This is because even in *industry* they user hot air combined with IR preheat, since it is a lot-lot easier to control, and to make the solder job reproducible. Namely, once a hot air machine is set up, you can literally remove the thermocouple from the board, since it will follow that profile 99% of the time. In contrast, with IR it need "soaking" and depending on the color of the chip, IR penetrates differently into the chip. You will definitely need at least two thermocouples or better four, and develop your profiles. It takes time, but it is worth the effort!
I do this sort of thing daily as part of my role supporting the SMT portion of manufacturing. We typically bake our built assemblies for 48 hours at 125C as directed by J-STD-033. This will remove any moisture (the majority) to prevent any delamination or change in circuit card impedance levels. The amount of moisture removal slows over time, so the majority of it will be removed in the first several hours of a bake-out and diminishing returns thereafter. Not that I've tried this, but I suppose a small oven set to 90 or 125 (both standards in J-STD-033) for several hours would reduce your chances of moisture expansion while heating the board. In any case, pre-heating the board prevents any thermal-shock and ensures even distribution of heat. Our rework station uses two metal plates directly below the mounting rails to pre-heat the board. They typically run between 300 and 350 degrees Celsius. The air applied to the top of the component usually starts around 110 and raises throughout the process topping out in the 300 degree range. Solder alloys vary, but lead free SAC305 balls should generally be heated to a peak temperate of approximately 235-240 degrees and remain over the melting point (around 217-220) for between 40 to 70 seconds or so. Measure the temperature on the top of the component during profile development and try to keep it down under 250 if you can. I'm not sure you'll find a datasheet with those specifications for a proprietary chip such as a GPU. Keep up the good work!
Best is to search in adds, often a Google search will get you good results. Though, make sure that they guy does a good high temperature reflow with flux, and not just reseats the GPU. Reseating is the process when the GPU is in fact not reflown, because it never reaches liquidous temperatures, and the "repair" holds only for 2 weeks because only the board warps and makes contact with the GPU.
You are welcome. Btw, are you also reballing GPUs? I am asking since I am wondering what will happen now with all those GPU cards doing crypto mining. I would expect that in this year the number of GPU reballs will go up again like in the good old Xbox reball days.
In a few years, all those GPU's will be sold second hand bringing MSRP price lower than its ever been. I would expect reballs would be on the rise as well. will have to wait and see. Problem is what all these miners are contributing too. The AI algorithms being decrypted and put together in a larger piece, crunching chaos theory down to predictable numbers making every action and thought predictable and when it's done we will have given birth to AI (666) less then God but greater then us and we are going to suffer for it.
Hello, I have Asus GTX 680 4 gb only when play game problem this artifacts or gltch. This solution is repairable or not.This problem is GPU or VRAM? i.imgur.com/Z1U9p7t.jpg
Looking at the screenshot you linked, I would say that this is VRAM, or one of the balls which are going to the VRAM from the GPU are not making contact. Does the same artifact appear also on 2D when you are simply on the desktop? If yes, that is 99% VRAM. If the artifact only appear couple minutes after you start a 3D application, then the issue is with the solder balls where one of them cracked, and once the GPU chip heats up, it no longer makes contact with the GPU, so that the GPU constantly reads zeros from that chip.
This artifacts only appear when I open any game, Appears immediately upon opening the game, but not appear on 2D simply on the desktop not appear, only on 3D. This problem can be solved?
Graphic cards often use different RAM chips for 2D mode, since in 2D they need considerably less RAM. When the GPU switches over to 3D, all the RAM modules will be addressed. This is why you do not see the artifact in 2D but it shows up instantly in 3D. Based on the instant error, this seems not to be a heat related issue. This means that either the solder ball between the GPU and one of the RAM modules is broken, or one of the RAM chips itself is electronically broken/a solder ball below one of the RAM chips is broken. Thus, one can try a good reflow and try go get lucky, but in such case the chance is lower that a reflow will fix it, since there is a high chance that the RAM chip is duff. Still, give it a try and reflow the GPU if you can do it for free.
Ok and the reflow can be applied to the vram also or it is only for the gpu. I think it could be one of the vram, one of the RAM modules is broken, or one of the RAM chips itself is electronically broken. I can not do the reflow for free, I do not have the necessary equipment for that and here where I live is something expensive. Is it possible to do the reflow with a homemade heat gun? And in any given case of doing it is only in the gpu or can you apply heat to the vram?
If I understood your comment correctly (I am not very good at Spanish) you do not have access to the right tools and also you cannot get this done for free. You have been asking whether you could try to repair it by a heatgun, and whether with a heatgun it is possible to apply heat only on the VRAM. Well, considering that the GPU is not usable anyway, try to hit it with a heatgun and try to get lucky ;) If you heatgun it, first heatgun the GPU, and only later the NVRAM chips only if the GPU does not "fix" the issue. Frankly, even a good reflow with an IR rework station will only hold about 6-9 months on a high power GPU. Reball is where the more lasting solution is, but for most GPUs it is not worth the hassle since the GPU prices are low.
my heart usually pounds hard when stressing it with furmark!!! xD xD !! but its soo damn good....so people!! if your buying a used graphic...buy it only if it pass the FUR!! to me its better than cinebench
Yep, totally agree. Under Linux one can use GPU-burn as well, but it will not show you artifacts on the screen, and the program will only report failed test if the numerical algorithm breaks down. This is why until this day I prefer Fur-Mark for GPU test.
I didn't know Count Dracula did electronics repair videos!
lol
Luvvin' it - your accent makes it more interesting contrary to other reviewers opinions!
Repairs in the middle of night.*
Haha, I was born in Transylvania.
One reball, ahhahhah, two reballsh, ahhahha, three reballs ...
@@DonkeyLearningIT do you still live in Transilvania? I have a few video cards that need a repair and I’m also from Transilvania
@@nagynorbert7330 Nope, I can not help you. After my father (and couple months later sadly also my mother) has passed away, I decided that I need a change, so I have moved to Asia.
It worked! I did it with an RX 570 XFX 8GB, i bought a laser measuring device for the temps, reached 230° for 20sec and it worked so far
Is it still working? i did it to mine gpu but i dont have any idea its gonna work for how many days?
@@hasiv167 it lasted a week 😢 it went back to the exact same issue, i re done it and killed it for good, i have a few other cards mining and this one is the first dead, it's just bad luck i guess
Excellent tutorials! Will be using a lot of this information. Thank you.
very nice video! do you have any experience with how to remove an IHS from a Xeon CPU that uses an Indium Alloy (melting point between 130 and 157°C) as the TIM? I'm just trying to remove an IHS safely and not sure how I should proceed. But I guess a pre-heat to 100 and then direct heating of the IHS to 157°C should cause no harm?
It depends on the price of the Xeon chip if I would even try to mess with such thing. If these are one of those old Xeons which are now practically worthless, I would pre-heat the whole chip using an infrared soldering station to around 140C from the bottom, and next take a hot air gun (heatgun) and work on the lid.
Very nice video and good explanation. One question: is it a good idea to use NoClean SMD flux to perform reflow? What about the residue flux below the BGA chip when using the flux you used? Would it do any damage over time?
When you are reflowing a chip, you definitely need no-clean fux. The main idea behind no-clean is that you can use the PCB for years without cleaning it up. This way you do not need to use an ultrasonic cleaner, which would be a must do if you use traditional flux.
Donkey Learning IT thanks! Will try with no clean flux.
hi, don't wanna annoy but if i do this with a solder station that has a hot air gun should i go to these high temperatures or stay at 220C?
Hi! I like your reflow video Sir! (Sir could you please tell me how long the GPU survive after your Reflow Experimemt.
Thanks for the excellent video! I learned a lot.
great video.I have one question for you.How long can gpu work after a good reflow
?
It really depends on how much stress you put on the card, and how often it goes through the heat/cool cycle. After a good reflow it should hold at least 3 months. I know that earlier reflows were a joke, but now with really high GPU prices it is worth thinking about it.
I am here watching a video on how to reflow my GFX card... to see that you are reflowing the same GPU I am trying to DIY reflow. GK110-300-A1 and I've got a GK110-300-B1. Wish I had your kit to relfow my GPU. I've got... a heat gun and laser temperature metre.... and no flux. Wish me luck.
Oh boy, I really wish you luck with that thing, you will need it. However, considering how much of a *joke* it is now to buy a new video card, I am not wondering that repairing GPU cards actually now makes more sense then ever, and it should be a lucrative business.
can you please tell me more about the cool-down process ? should be slow or fast ?
why do you use those cool down fans ?
i trying to build a DIY BGA machine and i'm stuying it. thanks
Sorry for the late reply, but better late then never.
So if you look at the temperature profiles published by BGA manufacturers, you will see that they show that there should be a relatively fast cooling profile done in order to reduce chip damage (the chip spends less time at high temperature) and also the solder balls will be more homogeneous if you cool them down faster (no time for the alloy to phase-separate).
Hello and thank you for your explanatory video, I have a question for you regarding the use of a simple basic PID, for example a REX-C100 PID, is it possible to create a complete profile in order to automate the reflowing process, 150 degrees, 200 degrees, 217 degrees, 245 degrees, end of the process while respecting timing.
I have not found a French language PdF for this kind of cheap PID.
Or it is better to raise the temperature manually, I will use a homemade recovery table with preheating and hot air station with special 45x45 mm head.
Thank you for your help
Very helpful video!!! For how long did you heat the chip at the solder fusion point (+217c) Thanks!!!
According to my thermocouple what I used during profile development, below the chip the temperature should hit around 220C for 17-22 seconds. This is because 217C is the idealized temperature for clean lead-free solder. However, old solder balls will always be oxidized, so you must go couple degrees above 217C to melt them.
Also, I found that it is good to have the solder balls molten for at least 10 seconds, so that they fuse to the PCB and form a good contact. As I wrote, one *must use a thermocouple* to develop a profile. Without a good thermocouple it is a total hit/miss. Also, use at least two thermocouples on different part of the large chips during profile development, so that you see heat distribution.
Hi, thx for your informative Video, how is the heating device called u use for reflow?
i was wonder what brand was the flux you were using? great video Thank you
I am showing the flux in a different video where I go through the tools I use. Long story short, this is a cheap 'fake' version of the Amtech flux. It is a chinese cnock-off made after the original US Amtech brand, but it is still very good. Most likely the original Amtech would work even better.
Hey , this is a really nice and helpful video.
I am glad that you found it useful. The camera work is not the best, but tried to give some info on how to perform the repair instead.
Hello, thank you for a video I would like to try the same thing on my motherboard chip with a heat gun. What is the name of the soldering paste you use?
I have this paste. But mines is not liquid. Just .... paste. Not sure why yours comes out very wet
@donkey learning it do you know how I can find someone to do a similar repair to my 1080? i need a memory module reflow'd and the capacitors around it. and how much do people charge for something like that these days?
hello is it 255 degree celsius or about 480 fahrenheit
Excellent Video, Thanks for you great info. it was very generous from you.
I just have one Question. I am struggling with some motherboards that bent with the reflow temp. can you advise me how to avoid that?
again, A big thanks to you and your generosity.
Thanks
By bending which type of bend are you referring to? Does the mobo hang down, or does it curl up?
In any case, the warping comes from *uneven heat* between the bottom and the top, and most of the time it is being caused by not enough preheat from the bottom.
Hello I have tried reflow to my artifacts GPU and first time it was good and after 5 days GPU go artifacts again. So i tired again with heat gun and using flux and I clean the flux with methylated spirit alcohol by sinking GPU. But nothing comes to my monitor showing no signal. How can i fix. Pls help me. Thanks
Lol it just happened now with me
My gpu is also not displaying anything
And i am just checking every video on youtube to find a solution 😂😢
Methylated spirit alcohol??? lolol Are you trolling?? It's here on the video... Use ISOPROPYL alcohol!!! Other alcohols have water in them! You know what water does to electronics right?? The heat gun process is a cheap, un-exact and hit/miss solution!! Yeah you got lucky the first time anddddd... Of course... It worked for a couple of days!!! Because it was a cheap fix to begin with. Unless you have a reflow/reball station idk what to tell you... Try again with the heat gun?! Make sure you heat all the sides evenly, use good Flux and Isopropyl alcohol. Other than that, you either have a reflow/reball station and ultimately... Do an actual Reball. At this point though... You can be wasting more money in repairs than buying a new GPU. And buying a new GPU will eventually have to come in play for sure. You can't be reviving 10 year old GPU's because games are very demanding now
I made a small graphics card GPU repair station with lower and upper probe on the PCB, using a hot air station, but I do not know the ideal profile perfectly well, I have a diagram showing the gradual rise in temperature and the maximum time to be respected according to the temperature levels, could you explain to me the temperature preheating procedure taken by the probe below the PCB, I suppose that we start by preheating the PCB, but until 'at what ideal temperature 110 degrees maybe? how quickly should this temperature be reached? and important question the preheating phase remains active when you start heating from above until reflowing 245 degrees?
After reflowing is complete, can the PCB be allowed to cool slowly or does it have to be cooled with a fan?
Thank you sir for your video and especially for your help
Well, although the BGA manufacturers will show you an ideal temperature profile, the reality is that it would require lots-and-lots of tuning to get it close to the given profile for each particular chip. Thus, for repair you just try to be "good-enough" for most chips. The idea behind heating up the board slow to 110C is to gradually remove any moisture from the chip, because water boils at 100C, which causes popcorning of the chip. Bottom heat is one of the *most* important ones in a rework. About 70-80% of the heat should come from the bottom, and only 30% from the top heater. Otherwise the board will bend like a banana, and the BGA chip will never sit right on the PCB. Thus, you definitely have to keep the bottom heat on during the whole process, including infrared preheaters. As for the cooldown, the cooldown actually need to be done quickly, using forced air, so that the balls solidify quickly. This improves the bond quality, since the solder alloy will stay more homogeneous. Especially the lead-free solder tend to phase-separate if it is cooled down slowly, which leads to breaking of the solder balls/joints.
I understood you correctly, but as I am a beginner in this matter and I am building a BGA station with 450W preheating with regulator, upper heater with hot air welding machine, lower and upper double probe on the PCB and a big fan to cool the PCB very quickly, I still have a few questions for you.
1- the soldering profile, are these the temperatures measured on the PCB and not read on the hot air welding machine?
2- (very important) -Can I first preheat the PCB up to 110 degrees and then start reflowing with my hot air desoldering station with max 235 degré, no risk of damaging the electronic components with the preheating and the higher reflowing?
3-The respect of the temperature stages and the duration of the stages without PID will be very difficult to respect taking into account the homemade station, it is possible to use a PC with software and a low-cost USB interface, but I do not failed to find this.
I found a video where a person used a small electronic circuit without a single channel case, the problem he did not indicate the electronic circuit number, would you have any idea about this considering a budget very tight?
4-Last question on your station and below the PCB, you have a kind of horn with a central screw to avoid deformation, is it hot air coming out?
I thank you very warmly for the help you will give me in this complex matter.
How do you mean heat has to come from the bottom?
Hi could you please tell me what are the times - how long do you keep the card at 90 degrees for the water vaporization, or how long do you keep the card at 255 degrees? I would like to repeat the process with a hot-air gun that has adjustable temp. Thanks!
Did it work?
@@ajsdfk No. Tried 2 cards. I followed the instructions as best as I could and wasn't able to make them work. Also there are a lot of videos that even if it does work it it only a temporary fix and it will break again.
@@piotrw3366 Got it thanks
is there anyway you have details to your profile you use for heating and timing? thanks
Uhh, I remember that setting up the profiles on these controllers was tricky, for the temperature ramp I actually had to divide the initial and the desired temperature by seconds. However, I have moved about 2 years ago to Asia, and the IR reworking station is in storage in the EU, so sadly I can not tell you more. However, I just have read through the PDF documentation of the controller to set it up. If you follow the temperatures and the time intervals from the video, you should be able to set up the same.
Is this long term fix any experinces??
I have this gtx 980ti reference after I purchased for $20,my motherboard give me first long beep then give normal second beep and normal third beep which didnt boot,so should I have to reflow,(nice video keep it up :3)
If the rest of your system works with an other graphics card, you should definitely try to reflow it. Though, I must say, on modern GPUs when they need a reflow/reball most of the time they work at least in 2D modus, and only die or generate artifacts in 3D. Most of the time when a graphics card is beeping from the very start, that often means that the GPU was killed via overclocking/overvolting. Still, try to get lucky and reflow it. Do *not* spend your time on reballing it, except if you want to learn reballing. Otherwise financially it is a waste of time&money.
Donkey Learning IT my 670 only died in 3d. Is there a decent way to do this without paying someone to use a proper machine? Is a heat gun or oven really a good idea? Is it worth buying a heat gun with temperature control?
nobody do it because it is only temporary. this process is used ONLY to diagnose cracked joints. only repair is reball or replace
Hi. Correct me if I'm wrong, the board and chip has to be preheated to 90 to 100 celsius for how many seconds or minutes with the platform inclined to how many degrees? How far should the nozzle or tip be to the GPU? Should the paste be applied around the chip or just at the top of the incline? Also when you're reflowing, what's the temperature of the nozzle/tip, how far should it be to the GPU and how long should you heat it at 255 Celsius I believe? What is the blower's setting? Is it at maximum? What's the melting point of the GPU solder anyway in Celsius? Thank you. God bless, Proverbs 31
The board should be as flat as possible, there is *no inclination* involved here. When you apply the flux around the warm chip, it will be sucked below the chip due to surface tension and capillary effect, and not due to gravity.
Now concerning the temperatures and the time intervals, I must say that everybody *has to figure this out* on his/her own for the particular machine using thermocouples and doing systematic tests. It does not even make sense for giving values here, since it will radically differ from machine to machine, even within the same series. As for the distance, I use six 1Euro coins to set the distance between the nozzle and the PCB. Namely, I stack three coins on top of each other on the PCB on two opposite sides of the chip, and put the nozzle down until I touch the top coins on both side. I fix the nozzle there, and remove the coins. This way I know, that the distance is systematically the same, since I used the same distance for developing the profiles with external thermocouples.
Does your card still working after this reflow?
Yep, you can see that the GPU stress test is running fine. Of course, a reflow will not hold in the long run.
If one plays heavily with the card, I would expect that it will crash again in 3-4 months. Longer solutions are either reball (no longer worth it for cheap cards) or buy a new card.
i tried at 205 C whit air flow and i realised that the temp wont reach 200 at the chip, and then i set temp at 300 C and now the videcard is working
This is why having a thermosensor is really important for profile development.
Btw, I find the 300C a bit too much. However, as you see, I also had to crank my unit way above the melting temperature of the solder to reach around 220C at the chip. Also, keep in mind that the distance of the nozzle from the chip makes a LARGE difference!
Can I replace the GPU?
how about exposing a chip to 300ºC? is it safe?
Nope, that is not a good idea. However, in the case of hot air just because the hot air is around 300C, that does not mean that the component is also at 300C, since there is always a temperature difference between the hot air nozzle and the chip. This is why you need temperature sensors on the board when you develop a profile.
@@DonkeyLearningIT thanks for your point. At first, I'm perplexed also if the set temperature in hot air is the same also to the component being heated. Better have a sensor for temp guide.
how to avoid pop corn during BGA reflow and remove chip safely pls explain in details
To avoid delamination (popcorn) due to trapped water vapor expansion, what I do is the cheap solution. The cheap solution is, that you use a really long (in my case about 20 minutes) BGA profile, where the first 10 minutes are there to *slowly* heat up the chip and keep it around 90Celsius so that most of the water vapor can escape. Also, before I heat up the chip, I drawn it several times in water-free acetone. Water-free acetone is a bit more expensive than average-Joe acetone, but it will draw out water because water will always try to mix with acetone. Rubbing about 5 times water-free acetone on the chip with a cotton bud will do the trick. Warning: average-Joe acetone or even methyl-ethyl-ketone which contains water will *not work* .
The best solution would be to "bake" the boards in an oven set at 85Celsius for about 12-16 hours. This solution uses lots of electricity, plus you will need an oven where temperature can be regulated fairly accurately.
need more patience....if you could give best profile for 3 zone ir bga machine ....
I only worked with IR+Hot air machines. This is because even in *industry* they user hot air combined with IR preheat, since it is a lot-lot easier to control, and to make the solder job reproducible. Namely, once a hot air machine is set up, you can literally remove the thermocouple from the board, since it will follow that profile 99% of the time. In contrast, with IR it need "soaking" and depending on the color of the chip, IR penetrates differently into the chip. You will definitely need at least two thermocouples or better four, and develop your profiles. It takes time, but it is worth the effort!
I do this sort of thing daily as part of my role supporting the SMT portion of manufacturing. We typically bake our built assemblies for 48 hours at 125C as directed by J-STD-033. This will remove any moisture (the majority) to prevent any delamination or change in circuit card impedance levels. The amount of moisture removal slows over time, so the majority of it will be removed in the first several hours of a bake-out and diminishing returns thereafter. Not that I've tried this, but I suppose a small oven set to 90 or 125 (both standards in J-STD-033) for several hours would reduce your chances of moisture expansion while heating the board.
In any case, pre-heating the board prevents any thermal-shock and ensures even distribution of heat. Our rework station uses two metal plates directly below the mounting rails to pre-heat the board. They typically run between 300 and 350 degrees Celsius. The air applied to the top of the component usually starts around 110 and raises throughout the process topping out in the 300 degree range. Solder alloys vary, but lead free SAC305 balls should generally be heated to a peak temperate of approximately 235-240 degrees and remain over the melting point (around 217-220) for between 40 to 70 seconds or so. Measure the temperature on the top of the component during profile development and try to keep it down under 250 if you can. I'm not sure you'll find a datasheet with those specifications for a proprietary chip such as a GPU. Keep up the good work!
where can I get this done in Toronto?
Best is to search in adds, often a Google search will get you good results.
Though, make sure that they guy does a good high temperature reflow with flux, and not just reseats the GPU.
Reseating is the process when the GPU is in fact not reflown, because it never reaches liquidous temperatures, and the "repair" holds only for 2 weeks because only the board warps and makes contact with the GPU.
Thanks
You are welcome. Btw, are you also reballing GPUs? I am asking since I am wondering what will happen now with all those GPU cards doing crypto mining.
I would expect that in this year the number of GPU reballs will go up again like in the good old Xbox reball days.
In a few years, all those GPU's will be sold second hand bringing MSRP price lower than its ever been. I would expect reballs would be on the rise as well. will have to wait and see. Problem is what all these miners are contributing too. The AI algorithms being decrypted and put together in a larger piece, crunching chaos theory down to predictable numbers making every action and thought predictable and when it's done we will have given birth to AI (666) less then God but greater then us and we are going to suffer for it.
Hello, I have Asus GTX 680 4 gb only when play game problem this
artifacts or gltch. This solution is repairable or not.This problem is
GPU or VRAM? i.imgur.com/Z1U9p7t.jpg
Looking at the screenshot you linked, I would say that this is VRAM, or one of the balls which are going to the VRAM from the GPU are not making contact.
Does the same artifact appear also on 2D when you are simply on the desktop?
If yes, that is 99% VRAM. If the artifact only appear couple minutes after you start a 3D application, then the issue is with the solder balls where one of them cracked, and once the GPU chip heats up, it no longer makes contact with the GPU, so that the GPU constantly reads zeros from that chip.
This artifacts only appear when I open any game, Appears immediately upon opening the game, but not appear on 2D simply on the desktop not appear, only on 3D. This problem can be solved?
Graphic cards often use different RAM chips for 2D mode, since in 2D they need considerably less RAM. When the GPU switches over to 3D, all the RAM modules will be addressed. This is why you do not see the artifact in 2D but it shows up instantly in 3D. Based on the instant error, this seems not to be a heat related issue. This means that either the solder ball between the GPU and one of the RAM modules is broken, or one of the RAM chips itself is electronically broken/a solder ball below one of the RAM chips is broken. Thus, one can try a good reflow and try go get lucky, but in such case the chance is lower that a reflow will fix it, since there is a high chance that the RAM chip is duff. Still, give it a try and reflow the GPU if you can do it for free.
Ok and the reflow can be applied to the vram also or it is only for the gpu. I think it could be one of the vram, one of the RAM modules is broken, or one of the RAM chips itself is electronically broken. I can not do the reflow for free, I do not have the necessary equipment for that and here where I live is something expensive. Is it possible to do the reflow with a homemade heat gun? And in any given case of doing it is only in the gpu or can you apply heat to the vram?
If I understood your comment correctly (I am not very good at Spanish) you do not have access to the right tools and also you cannot get this done for free. You have been asking whether you could try to repair it by a heatgun, and whether with a heatgun it is possible to apply heat only on the VRAM.
Well, considering that the GPU is not usable anyway, try to hit it with a heatgun and try to get lucky ;)
If you heatgun it, first heatgun the GPU, and only later the NVRAM chips only if the GPU does not "fix" the issue. Frankly, even a good reflow with an IR rework station will only hold about 6-9 months on a high power GPU. Reball is where the more lasting solution is, but for most GPUs it is not worth the hassle since the GPU prices are low.
two month survive
my heart usually pounds hard when stressing it with furmark!!! xD xD !! but its soo damn good....so people!! if your buying a used graphic...buy it only if it pass the FUR!! to me its better than cinebench
Yep, totally agree. Under Linux one can use GPU-burn as well, but it will not show you artifacts on the screen, and the program will only report failed test if the numerical algorithm breaks down. This is why until this day I prefer Fur-Mark for GPU test.
Xbox bga