Why Do I Hate Articulated Buses?
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2020
- I know that hate is such a strong word and I like that Articulated Buses could pick up more people. But are they really the solution?
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I work for MDOT MTA and I have 22 years of service I was a Bus Operator for 14 years and now I’m Light Rail Operator for the past 8 years. Our training for articulated buses was 2 hours and I prefer a articulated bus over a 40 footer or even a doubled articulated bus. I have never gotten into a situation I could not get out of. And as the instructor said they can go anywhere a 40 footer can go. And I believe it true. Ether your operator or your a bus driver there is a very much and clear difference in the two. I have truly mastered operating articulated buses even in the most unbelievable situations. And any true operator should open to welcoming a challenge.
Credit to having two different professions under the same parent company. I totally forgot the MTA Maryland have light rails. I also like the design of their newest articulated Novas.
As someone who's the powetrain lead of an articulated electric bus project, this is helpful. Great observations.
Thanks. I know I'd prefer Hydrogen Fuel Cell buses due to the potential of minimal outside infrastructure if done right. One thing I must commend about electric buses however whether battery or trolley is the idea of driving a giant smartphone on wheels. That's almost how I felt when I drove one of the electric cars for the company that I work for.
As a New York bus fan myself, I didn't really start to ride articulated buses until I was of age to ride by myself in the Bronx and Manhattan, surely require a lot of training to drive but they do help a lot as subway shuttles and they are used on the most high demanding routes, personally I like the artic buses
I’ve been driving 18 mtr artics for 15 years and find them far better to drive than most rigid buses. I’ve never had a problem reversing an articulated bus- practice makes perfect, but then I’ve had 32 years on the job!. For starters all our buses are “pusher” types meaning the engine and transmission are in the trailer unit, so it’s relatively quiet in the cab. Compared to this video our artics are probably easier to manoeuvre in tight situations as our wheelbases are shorter for the front section which means the bus tracks easier when cornering. We have two types at my depot: two-door with bodies by Custom Coaches and three-door with bodies by Volgren. Both are Volvo B12BLEA chassis with 12 ltr 340 hp six cylinder engines. The two doors have ZF trans while the three doors have Voith trans. Are passengers permitted to stand in the area around the bellows on your buses?
One, thanks for sharing your experience. Though a different profession, my Dad has been with his company for over 30 years as well. And to answer your question, I may have seen some try to stand in the center of the bus. Although it's been sometime because we don't have Articulated Buses here on Staten Island. The last Articulated Bus I took was before the Pandemic.
I've been driving nj transit artics and its hell
I wish you could teach me , completely fries my brain reversing a bendy !
Articulated bus are easy to drive and turns, I basically trained myself they just said a few words gave me an artic bus and said drive
Fair enough. Like I said at the outset, I'm not completely against Articulated Buses. I'm even working on a project where if this company existed, the fleet would include XE60s.
Additionally, I'm saying this now only because I have yet to obtain a CDL. Watch I drive my first tractor trailer and it won't be so complicated. Lol
Try to back them up!
@@samanli-tw3id it’s a challenge, but some-especially A-Class CDL holders-can master that flawlessly!
That’s how I was trained. 2 he training with 6 people and 15 min driving time. Now go out and drive the bus. It was simple. Turn at the second wheel. After you do it a couple times you don’t think about it.
Articulated buses have so much more room. The drivers on my route seem to handle them with ease.
We could definitely use more of these in the U S. They're great for BRT systems where you're basically driving in a straight line.
They're excellent for BRT systems. I've even chose the New Flyer XHE60 CHARGE for project that I'm working on. If infrastructure and standards were better suit for articulated buses here in the United States, I would agree with using more articulated buses. I only have the video titled this way to invite feedback from several commuters, enthusiasts like myself, and bus operators.
Any bus is good bus given us public transportation in us
Here in the Netherlands we have articulated buses and also double deckers. But the last ones have only been in service for about 4 years now and only in 2 cities. As a busdriver I drive both of them and I like the articulated buses much better. The double deckers have only 1 single front door and 1 single back door so it takes more time to enter and exit the bus. And one very bad thing is that passengers are not allowed to stand in the bus. All other public transport buses do not have this rule.
Articulated buses are easy to drive. But especially with this type of bus it is important to always check all of the detours before your shift because you do not want to put it in reverse. Also it is important to not turn all the way because the articulated part can become stuck and that means some special person has to come to unlock it again.
We also have the 21 meter Capacity Citaro`s but I have only drove them like 6 times. They drive very comfortable but it should stay on the bus lanes. But the public transport company also use them in the city centre of Amsterdam and that is not easy.
I'm guessing you're double decker buses are ADL Enviro400s or 500s because I agree that they don't have as much headspace. Being almost 2 m tall, it's a challenge if I board a bus that's crowded which has only occurred once during the Pandemic.
Here in belgium we have some narrow streets and sometimes articulated buses are getting used lol
Wow. Not trying to cause something but I thought they would recommend streetcars (What we in the United States call "Tramways") in areas like that. I'm not surprised because I try something similar in my book. Either way, every system has their own strengths and weaknesses and not every system works everywhere. The only thing that works everywhere are principles rather than strategies.
I wouldn't mind trying to drive one on a close court to gauge its' manuverability and driving dynamics. But in regular congested city driving I'll stick to a standard 40' bus. :)
As far as articulated buses are concerned, or any buses for that matter, I wish more buses here had electric brakes like in Europe. Only one that's here that I know of is the Tourrider. Mind you, I think the Citaro is my new favorite Transit bus.
I think Articulated buses are good hear in New York City due to over overcrowding on some bus routes like the B46 the B44 in Brooklyn NY.
I remember seeing some places in Brooklyn with articulated Xcelsiors. But it's rare when I head to Brooklyn to be honest.
In my opinion, I like Articulated Buses because it can pick more passengers in rush hours to avoid getting crowded. If 40 Feet Buses pick a lot of people, it was crowded. That's why I like Articulated buses.
Ok fair enough. Although, I have seen articulated buses that were very crowded both before and during the pandemic.
@@dj__projects well that would mean that a standard or double decker bus would be far more overcrowded
I drive artics here in NYC and I prefer to drive them over the standards. I find it fun "snaking" my way around traffic and other obstacles like subway el pillars. In my opinion, 207th Street in Washington Heights is the hardest street to drive an artic in the city during rush hours. Double/triple parked cars, unnecessarily tight turns due to illegally parked cars, and dumb pedestrians. I love and hate driving there
I feel bad because I know I am among the drivers and pedestrians that could at times be an unintentional burden to you bus operators. Out of curiosity, does your Depot have the Novas or Xcelsiors? To me, the Novas (Minus the CNG) looks nicer but I love the customization options on the Xcelsiors.
@Dream Journal Projects we have mainly Novas and some standard size Xcelsiors. I don't have a preference, they're both great to me. But I like having variety in the fleet, not 100% of anything.
Fair enough. I know if the Novas we're just as customized, I would definitely prefer them. Even for my book, I've chosen the XHE60 for Crayon Metro. Similar to the electric buses out of Quill but with hydrogen instead of an electric battery.
@Dream Journal Projects we're supposed to get XHE40s next year at my depot. And I got the chance to drive the XE60s at Quill, love them
I hate 12m buses. They pick up so little people.
Lol. At least they're not like 35 ft buses. Forgive me because I do not know the metric system very well. I honestly had to Google what is 12 m in feet before responding.
@@dj__projects Haha sorry, didn't even know I was on an American website.... but I like the idea of putting such a video :)
Me as a swiss can just laugh, cause we use bi-articulated buses in many cities...
And our roads are way more narrow than the ones in the USA...
Almost everyone has skinnier streets than in the United States. I actually want to visit Switzerland one day because of how amazing your transportation that work is compared to many prominent places in Europe. (That and I like cheese and chocolate; Sure there's more food than that because I like to eat)
Just wait until you go to Zurich or any other large-ish city in Switzerland and find double articulated trolleybuses. They are probably quite unwieldy but definitely a sight to behold.
There's a few buses I want to see in person. I wouldn't mind Switzerland but I also want to go to London and maybe the Netherlands but so does so many city planners.
Driving a rigid bus behind a good articulated bus driver on Military Rd in peak hour and watching them flick in and out of tight spots and stops was always incredible to watch. Recently I've ridden in a double decker B1 bus up top and found it nauseating.
Ok. That's my first time hearing a negative view on double decker buses. I just wish that I didn't eat two donuts before reading this comment. Lol
I don’t think they are harder to maintain since they use exactly the same parts and engine as a 40ft
Fair enough. Both the XD40 and 60 have the Cummins L9. Admittedly, my opinion has slightly changed since I've uploaded this video.
I like articulated buses. I ride two accordion buses to school
You are one of the many that I have respect for that have to transfer a few times on a regular to reach your destination.
What about articulated buses on freeway routes and routes with predictable smooth turns and reliability
Ok. I'm 100% for infrastructure that is specifically designed for articulated buses. I even have my own proposals. Ones that weren't is like putting a glass slipper on one of the ugly stepsisters. It's not going to fit. That's why I commend operators that have to drive them through areas that were for 35 or 40 foot buses. Granted, many bendy's have a 35 ft front and a 25 ft trailer but it looks tough to me.
Go talk to the guys who drivers who drive the Bi-Articulated buses..
Not only do I have friends and family that have driven articulated buses. There have been some articulated bus drivers who have since commented on this video. One commenter has commendably been on his job for more than 20 years.
I love standing on them.
Articulated buses are very easy to drive. I choose them over any other bus and if you're too afraid then you shouldn't choose transit.
Like I said. I'm not fully against them. On the contrary, my new favorite Transit bus is the articulated fuel cell from Mercedes-Benz. We could technically bring them here to the United States because that's what I would use if the resort in my book was real.
@@dj__projects the company I work for, all articulated buses are electric, we have very few regular buses that are CNG powered. The county has still uses diesel for training buses, CNG articulated, fuel cell for 35 ft express buses, 40 ft are still CNG. By 2040 all buses will be electric and fuel cell.
@@dj__projects Mercedes is too expensive and you either buy Chinese or American. County already has a fleet agreement with Gillig and my company uses BYD.
I actually love BYD believe it or not. The fact that they have several vehicle types in areas where some other companies don't is impressive. Only other company I could think of is Van Hool and we of course here in North America don't have their full product line. Gillig is another company that I like. The company town in my book would use their clean diesel trolley replica because it's frankly the best looking trolley replica on the market and it's funny how it's basically a Low Floor Standard with a cupola and cow catcher.
As for Mercedes-Benz, I know how expensive they are. I can't afford some of the baby Sprinters we have in my company's fleet. But Mercedes-Benz is frankly at the state that I want New Flyer to be at. We don't really need air brakes on commercial vehicles anymore and the Tourrider (My new favorite Motorcoach; Sorry Prevost) has electric brakes that were already established in foreign markets. If New Flyer or somebody could add that to their transit buses and motorcoaches, I would switch back to a domestic manufacturer.
@@dj__projects responding to the air brakes, I agree that the battery Regen plays a big role in slowing down the bus. You can almost use one pedal. However I think it's written in law somewhere that they require bigger vehicles transit buses, charter, to construction dump trucks to have air brakes. Unless they can convince the government that air brakes is not needed, then great. For BYD buses, I really wish they had a pedestrian artificial noise to let people know a huge vehicle is behind you. This whole time I've been creatively raising my bus to make some sort of noise to warn people I'm here. You can't tap the horn without waking up the neighborhood.
I have driven charter buses before and enjoy the smooth ride. Have you heard of Green Power? My company uses the shuttle vans for airport runs.
Idk why but the only good things I love about Articulated Buses is that they bend away from half (obviously), and the engines that are put onto there like Cummins ISL engines.
Don't know much about the engines. Do you mean the Novas or the Xcelsiors?
@@dj__projects Well maybe the New Flyers, or New Xcelsiors. Idk my city has those except Novas
Xcelsiors are really good buses. I like the Novas, especially since we have the 40 ft variants here on Staten Island but the Xcelsiors can be further customized to match the needs of almost any agency. I mention it in another video.
I drive articulated buses for a living. They seemed a lil intimidating at 1st but you get used to them. In some circumstances an articulated bus can get around some places that 40 foot buses can't. Our Nova artics have an excellent turning radius making difficult situations a little easier than out 40 food buses. I love these things and will drive them on our tight city streets any day. When it snows then it's terrifying.
I'm only curious because I'm learning to get a CDL myself. Do you need a Class A license to drive them?
@@dj__projects Nope. You only need a class B CDL with passengers endorsement to operate those.
Ok. Makes sense.
I drove artics for two years (2016-2018), and they’re way easier to drive, and maneuver than the basic 40-foot coaches. The challenge is driving them in tight spots, especially any major downtown area, one mistake, and you might make the news (I’ve seen that happen, BTW). But here’s an observation: (most) articulated buses such as the New Flyer D60LF as well as the Excelsior XD/XDE models have a total of eight mirrors! Four on the outside, the top flats and the bottom convex, and four on the inside. The rear view, and a mirror over each individual set of double doors on the coach. The trick is learning how to use all eight simultaneously! My method was I’d line up the one mirror over the entrance door with the other two mirrors above the exit doors in the back, which made it easier for me to avoid accidents as well as potentially injuring a passenger as they exited out the back while at the same time using the outside mirrors to check my surroundings to ensure the safety of both myself and the passengers.
I’m a trucker now, but most times when I drive ANY commercial vehicle, I use the flat mirror on the driver’s side, and the convex mirror on the passenger side. That actually worked better for me in the recent years. And I began employing that method once I got the hang of driving artics.
It’s been a few years since I last drove these mighty beasts, but I have stories to tell about driving them, that’s for sure!
Eight mirrors. That's something. And it would make sense because I was comparing the prices between the XE60 and XHE60 and with the initial purchase price, that's actually a practical move on New Flyer's end. I wonder if it's the same on the articulated Novas and Van Hools in Europe.
@@dj__projects I wouldn’t doubt it. I rode a Nova in Windsor (neighbouring Detroit across the river), and I was floored at the amount of space that this vehicles had. It wasn’t an artic, sadly, but Windsor does have them, but they’re rarely seen. From what I’ve heard.
The LFS Artic is basically in every borough except Staten Island. With the entire LFS vs Xcelsior debate, the novas look nicer but in Xcelsiors can be further customized.
Articulated buses originaly came from Europe so they are more logical in Europe compared to rest of country's
The main companyd that created their own original buses without them being based
Irisbus ( iveco )
Vanhool
Man
Mercedes
Volvo
Renault
The others company outside of Europe that are original but based off European company's
Novabus
Limeway
Others underrated non European companys .
Mercedes-Benz has my new favorite transit bus. (Specifically, the eCitaro Fuel Cell G) Second goes to the bi articulated buses from Van Hool. I'm actually sad that Nova Bus is leaving the US market especially since we not only have them here on Staten Island but the manufacturer lacks the number of buses that could beat similar markets throughout the world.
I would just have articulated buses if I owned a company because I like them. I know what your saying. There hard to turn but it carry’s more passengers. That’s just the point of an articulated bus ok.
Trust me. I love that they accommodate for more people and I'm not saying that Articulated Buses aren't practical. For instance, I actually prefer the New Flyer XE60s for a project that I've been working on.
I love the XE60 but I like the XD60 more
I mean XN60 0_o
If it's because of the asymmetrical roofs on the Diesel Xcelsiors, they're more symmetrical on the newer ones like the XD60s in NJ Transit and other companies.
Articulate buses are definitely difficult and requires patience and nerves of steel much like the Acela Express. Very few has what it takes to drive these extra long vehicles and probably takes more time to complete training courses.
I think the Acela is easy to operate. from what I remember from Microsoft Train Simulator, their similar to the HHP-8. What's challenging is maintenance because they're Trainsets on what is Amtrak's only profitable route.
@@dj__projects
It goes deeper than that.
They should make 35 foot double deckers with good routes for clearance.
Our Arctic buses are different to yours in the video. We have a shorter front wheelbase in ours. It gives the bus much better turning. I believe out Arctic buses take less roadway to turn then what I could see in your video. It is like driving a shorter wheelbase bus with a trailer following behind. the far rear wheels follow the tire tread path of the middle wheels on the road, so no need to over steer to compensate for the length of the overall bus.
Interesting. I never thought there would be Articulated Buses shorter than 60 Feet. And the ones that New York and New Jersey are ok. Caitsith 810 told me that it's like driving a 35 footer with a trailer.
I don't think articulated buses have higher per passenger maintanance cost than regular. What requires most attention is engine and articulated buses have one engine carrying more passengers.
Articulated buses aren't that harder to drive than regular buses. But still it is chaper to have less drivers doing more qualified job than more drivers doing less qualified job.
If I own bus company I would rather buy less articulated buses than more regular buses. But I live in city where roads are straight and humans expensive. If you live in city with crazy roads and a ton of drivers willing to work for minimal wage than maybe regular buses are better.
Under those circumstances, I would much rather Travelator Subway. You never have to wait for a bus or a train and how to get from Point A to Point B will already be there.
They are better than double deckers
It's been sometime since I last took a double decker bus. Granted, you never have to worry about height clearance with an articulated bus. Although, if I knew some from an agency with both double-decker and articulated buses, they could probably compare and contrast.
Dude its the same thing as driving a semi truck if ur gonna turn it
Lol. I plan to acquire CDL but I'm only saying that I'm scared of driving a semi only because I have yet to drive one. I know for a fact that the moment I drive one, a semi truck will not be as nerve-racking. Especially since I love the Freightliner Cascadia.
they look cool
I agree. There are even some that I've recommended for some Dream Fleets and even for a separate project that I'm working on. It's just like every conveyance, articulated buses have their advantages and disadvantages.
Bendy buses are fun
Started my traning with a articulated bus. Been a Bus Operator for 4 years now. The city in which I drive is phasing out our 60ft buses. While easier to manuver than their 40ft buses they are not as pracitcal due to length, weight and can only be used on non snow days. No drop chains. Going to be missed on our Route 1 which sees high passenger volume. The city re constructed they main road for this particular route and tried to accomidate parking, bikes and passenger foot traffic with no consideration for us bus operators drivng this 60ft bus. Most of our streets are narrow and never had bus transportion in mind.
They want to buy a few double decker buses which also a bad idea as only a few routes have the required heighth clearance.
Many good parking spaces in New York and New Jersey have been taken up by Citi Bikes so I feel your pain regarding spacing. And height clearance is the only reason why we don't have double-decker Express buses in New York. I can't guarantee that everything has been completely assessed for your area because we humans never know everything. But I'm sure the decision to retire articulated buses was because of a decrease in the average capacity because of the pandemic. Am I close?
@@dj__projects rider ship is down, not the reason they are doing away with the 60ft bus. The orginal BRT route they were used on was extended up to our University. Weight was an issue as the bridge cant handle the 67, 000 lbs and government grant required all electric buses. The person who is head of the transit systrm is trying to dismantle it. Our contractor Keolis is only out for profit. Doesnt even follow there mission statement, "Thinking like a Passenger"
Ok. It kind of makes sense with the weight capacity. An electric Xcelsior is actually heavier than a diesel. I do not wish for a political dispute but sadly, we sometimes claim that were trying to make things better for others but we always miss the mark as humans. I can't even say that every ideal on my channel will make things better because in reality, they won't.
Los Angels metro I love their colors orange grey red beautiful 🤙🤙🤙😎🖖😍🥰🥺
I may have seen some Los Angeles buses from one of Caitsith810's content. I'm not completely familiar with them.
I'd make a fleet of 35 foot double deckers.. 40s don't take turns well. A 35 foot double decker with a perfect route for clearance would be best.
I think Alexander Dennis has something like that in the United Kingdom. Let me give some 40 ft bus operators credit though. I drive a minivan for a living and it's hard to turn at some corners on busy streets. They have to time it just right with knuckleheads like me on the road making it unintentionally harder for them.
This video is straight facts
Artic buses are fly
I totally agree with this! Also i like C40LFs my favorite!
Why you hate articulated bus, is so great to drive and can were 2x long than a normal bus and a 3x high capacity to pull + passengers
As I mentioned that the outset, I'm not completely against them. I even took one last week in Manhattan and enjoyed the trip. By the way, that video will air in late October. I just think about the challenges with regards to adaptability, training, and maintenance. I live on Staten Island for instance and due to the hills and terrain, we may never have articulated buses on Staten Island. As for maintenance, due to there being an additional trailer, maybe I'm wrong but I'm assuming that there is more work involved with maintaining and articulated bus than a 35 or 40 foot bus.
@@dj__projects Argh if you hate articulated bus I hate your channel
Reiterating to my previous comment, I'm not completely against them. I even have some buses that I would recommend for future Dream Fleets. The title of this particular video was to encourage fellow Transit enthusiasts or ones that work in the transportation industry to watch it. So thank you for being a fellow enthusiast or transportation worker for expressing your opinion.
Did you see what happened in Chicago with their articulated buses? It ended up with a lawsuit! 40 ft buses should be the standard for American transit agencies.
What happened in Chicago?
@@dj__projects Google search "CTA NABI bus" and go to the links from Chicago Tribute or search on youtube "CTA Pulls NABI Buses Out Of Service" you find out why.
For the most part, regarding articulated buses, it depends on the location and circumstances. For instance, we have good operators here on Staten Island but the streets and terrains will not allow them. Not to mention, tragedies nowadays cannot be completely avoided whether the buses are 40, 45, 60 ft, or more. Of course, we cannot minimize tragedies when they happen but sometimes, all we could do is just take additional precautions with the resources we already have.
bendy buses are the best buses ever!
You forget the most annoying thing about articulated buses: All too often they were used to replace or avoid trams and subways. In other words: They either avoided or contributed to the demolition of infrastructure for high capacity ELECTRIC transport. Such a shame. In places where trams or subways are simply not possible I think they are okay.
In some cases, I see where you're coming from. Especially since I personally like trains over buses. But in all fairness, buses whether plain or articulated are easier to maintain than trains with a system that's more flexible to change amid different circumstances.
I've even worked on a project on which Transit system I would prefer if I had a Theme Park Resort. After much consideration, a busway or BRT is more flexible than a rail system.
@@dj__projects Oh boy, the age-old discussion "buses or railtransport". America really still is in that stage, right?
For Europeans that's a 1920s discussion.
Amazing. Here in Europe it all depends on passenger numbers. The higher they are the more likely it's gonna be a rail solution. Currently all over Europe many tram systems are either being built or expanded. Believe me, buses are NOT always the best solution solely because they are more flexible. In big cities it rsimply IS NOT ABOUT FLEXIBILITY but RELIABILITY and CAPACITY. In both categories (modern) trams and subways beat buses (EASILY). In smaller towns however it is a totally different story. But in America these things are difficult to communicate. Too many Americans seem to actually believe the things they've been told by a bipartisan elite of libertarian railway haters. When it comes to infrastructure it's really sad to see what's going on in America. When I visited America a few years ago I was shocked.
I must commend the efficient rail system in Europe. I remember seeing a Bombardier video where a brand new tram in Belgium was inaugurated by the King of Belgium. I must also commend Europe for having more electric locomotives for Freight Service.
And trust me, this is not because I'm American. Sometimes, I think that transportation in other countries operate much better.
Trains require everything to be relatively perfect. Take it from someone who's father works for a Commuter Railroad. For a long-term trip, I would prefer trains. Locally, I would prefer buses. But if there are still more people, I would choose Travelators instead of Subway Cars.
If you want, I talk about it in this video.
ruclips.net/video/AOTr6NVL4MU/видео.html
But I Like Em...
It's not a crime if you like Articulated Buses. As mentioned in the video, I admire that the accommodate for more passengers and many commenters have reason that they're easier to drive. They just seem more challenging to maintain and difficult depending on the location.
I've been guilty of this myself with other channels' content but I would encourage watching the video and it's entirety before commenting. Sometimes, you never know if you may have the same viewpoint as the content creator.
The whole video is just showing videos about mta xn60s
Forgive me. Don't you mean the XD60s? I even show some Novas in this video.
@@dj__projects yes the novas and I meant xd60
Somebody who is not bus driver
Not yet.
I don't have my Class B yet but I do operate for microtransit.
skill issue
Lol
Double decker articulated bus is my dream bus
I remember seeing a bus like that one time. Online, not in person though.
You'd need a strong stomach and a good balance to ride on the back of the top of that
we didn't ask of your opinion but ok
Thanks for watching the video, increasing its viewership, and giving your opinion.
I love articulated buses it’s my favorite car in the world..............(nothing left to say)
bus*