Steel vs Ceramic Ballistic Plates
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Today quality made ceramic composite plates are readily available for a reasonable price so there is almost no argument left for buy steel ballistic plates.
Steel plates are usually very heavy and can be dangerous without an effective spalling protection.
But are steel plates really that ineffective as the internet is trying to portray them?
Lets find out!
You can support us at:
¤ Polenar Tactical Store: polenartactica...
¤ Join our community at: / polenartactical
¤ or slide in our DMs: / polenartactical
Thanks to Sellier & Bellot for supporting our channel
FB: / sellierbellotammunition
IG: / sellier_bellot_official
Never forget to put Mosin on full power mode before shooting.
Only for those 10km shots
And only if you're a highly trained black ops delta SEAL operator. It's highly dangerous to the user otherwise.
But you have to have points into the appropriate Engineering skill to overcharge your weapons.
I sure hope y'all don't have a Telegram account, because I just flagged a post from it as spam 😄
Level 4 plates don't stop stronger rounds than 7.62 NATO
Good video. Nice to see someone who isn't sponsored by an armor company talk about armor reasonably.
Thanks
Is there anything specific with armor that we should try next?
@@PolenarTactical I'd be interested into drop tests. In the army they always told the fudd lore that once a ceramic plate was dropped to the ground it is useless
@@PolenarTactical Since you ask - I'd recommend using different bullet types for the different calibers to show different results from different bullet compositions, as I assume that the bullets you used in this video were all new production FMJ lead core types derived from civilian manufacturers. Seeing as almost no military to speak of still uses lead or at least in the process of phasing it out and replacing it with other types of materials, such as copper and steel of varying hardness, I think it would provide a deeper insight into the performance of the armor if it were ever a need to actually use it. I suspect however that it might be somewhat tricky, with legislation and avalibility and all that but if you could - it would be very swagger of you.
There is some truth in that - older plates were made from a single piece of ceramic that if cracked it could potentially spread apart and offer a path for a bullet to penetrate.
But modern plates use small square or hexagonal ceramic tiles that are bonded together. This offers better multi hit capability but also negates any potentially downsides of cracks - even if the tiles crack, the plate should offer the same ballistic resistance
@@ptitlinge that's a scam, dude. If the username is "Text me at..." then a creator's name, it's a scam. No reason a creator would make a 2nd account like that for a giveaway.
Best, wittiest, informative, interesting firearms channel, second to none! 😎
Thank you :D
Their s### posts are better than most channels content, and when they get serious they are top shelf.
@@RonOhio I said so myself. I agree! 😎
That would have been hilarious if it cracked when it fell.. "Steel wins!" 🤣
Despite all the warnings cracked ballistic plates are still effective
@@PolenarTactical Obviously, the odds of hitting exactly on an effectively invisible (it's buried inside the plate construction) crack (presuming it really did crack) is so vanishingly small that it could be ignored, just like the chances of real-world threats hitting in precisely the same spot to avoid intact ceramic are also very small.
You guys don’t miss!
This isn’t the first video I’ve seen on ballistic plates testing / comparison, but it’s def one of the best. Something about how you guys present your videos and how you conduct the activities that just click with regular/simple guys like me.
👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you, that's nice to hear. Good feedback :)
@@PolenarTactical Just want to point out at 5:13 you've left a frame or two where you left the name unblurred and is readable.
@@scolio6585 Thank you for letting us know, i will see if we can correct it.
It was our good will to do that since they threatened us with legal action 😑
@@PolenarTactical yikes, guess they don’t like free advertising that their stuff works? 😂
@@scolio6585 A lot of this channel’s videos is very tongue in cheek. That’s what makes the whole Polenar crew fun to watch and not boring. The blurring and unblurring is an example.
A very important thing that was missed is "glancing shots". Ceramic will capture the round, steel will deflect. If you get hit at an upward glancing angle, that round is going to hit your neck or under-side of your head which = severe wounds if not death. I hear Polythylene is the way to go.
Ofcourse but how big chance is this happend if you?
Most of times enemy shoot AP that can pen armor.
@@joe125ful Happens all the fucking time dude, and most "AP" munitions do not penetrate military-grade armor, real life isn't Tarkov. Level IV can stop 30-06 AP rounds, and modern rifles fire cartridges SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than 30-06.
@@TacticalMetalhead
1 Not at all under 90 angle ther is shrapnels and this problem can be easy solved when armor is in vest so put reinforced layer and done,no dealy astuff for you.
2 Also Level 4 is good but shoted to face leg/arm or from side not save your ass anyway or using 50 Cal.
Also force energy can broke your ribs and do internal bleeding when ribs can broke under 200-400 Joules.
Just look in 4:14 there is definitly some injuries after few shots and this can easy happend in fight.
What impact angles are we talking about?
@@joe125ful You're spewing so much bullshit haha. It's not even funny.
1) At that point you are close to the bulk of ceramic with twice the weight
2) That applies to any armor. And no, with good armor (like ceramic, that absorbs impact), with a good backer, you need WAY more than 400 joules to break the ribs.
Nice Experiments! Can you do more test on spalling (I hope this is the correct spelling) by placing clay or ballistic gel around the plate? May to rolls of clay representing arms and a ball of clay hanging from the ceiling representing head? This would be nice.
That's a very interesting idea!
Some videos of amerikanski testing with ballistic dummies, the spalling got deep in skull and arteries of the neck
@@PolenarTactical Also test how well the plate carriers themself capture and trap the spalling.
@@PolenarTactical It also needs to be put inside of a Plate Carrier for efficacy, PC's catch spall as well, and there really isn't a reason to be testing it outside of one aside from baseline NIJ ratings process.
@@PolenarTactical What if you tape lvl3a over steel plate to trap the spalling?
My wife has steel plates and I built a form and covered them with a 1/4” of epoxy. I tested it on an old steel plate I had and it swallows up the spalling great.
Whats the weight on them?
@@eagleone5456 they’re the proprietary 9x9 plates that go in the freeman carrier from AR500. She’s 5’2” and 120 lbs. lol. Without the epoxy the plates weighed 4.9 lbs. after epoxy they weight 6.2 lbs.
@@ramzankadyrov6035 not a bad weight difference for good spalling catch.
Great video and very intelligent analysis. Thanks for the mention. There is no perfect armor, every plate has it's advantages and disadvantages. We've always recommended owning as many types of armor as you can. Cheers.
We also just posted a new video showing our improved coating system, results were pretty impressive. ruclips.net/video/rMOsGBgeYE4/видео.html
A great comparison of steel and ceramic ballistic plates with interesting results. Thank you for sharing!
(double thumbs up) Very informative and diplomatic approach to subject of steel vs composite subject! If there are more of these unbias videos it would be interesting to see what would happen with high velocity ammo and where applicable energy distribution/penertration/spall with backing/trauma-pad or assosiated soft armour fillers on appropriate PPE platforms.
I don't trust steel plates we consider them cheap and dangerous
I have mentioned this a couple of times In the comments below. What you really need to do is test steel plates inside the carrier to actually test the true danger of spalling. What I have seen, as an individual who professionally has to rate and recommend PPE for my companies client to purchase, is that ceramic plate fans/companies only show the bare steel plate being hit on video then claiming the resulting spalling will kill the wearer. Which might be true if the wearer taped the bare plates, even with the coatings, directly to their chest. In actuality the plate and the carrier are actually a system working together to protect the wearer.
Correct
that was my first thought as a nonprofessional. this plate needs to be in a thick suit.
Yeah
Administrative results did it with full loadout, it aint pretty
Id probably use it as backpack armor or makeshift ballistic shield
There are tests with steel in a carrier. It's still shit. Also it's heavier, costs the same as ceramics, and has no actual real world advantages
Best intro I’ve see in awhile! Bravo.
I bought ceramic and never looked back. If you actually go out and train you know why.
Mobility is everything.
My old steel plates (AR500 series A, with 6x6 side plates) with "full build-up" of anti-spall weighed just over 24lbs.
My medium size Hoplite level 4 SAPIs with 6x6 side plates come in at 18.5lbs.
Trust me, that 5.5lbs makes a HUGE difference.
If you're a hiker, you'll understand how just mere ounces of weight make a difference. Same concept applies here.
Direction changes are faster and require less energy. Getting up from prone or kneeling is faster and requires less energy. There's less momentum to contend with. Over the course of a day all of that adds up and you'll be glad you spent the extra money on ceramic plates.
But I guess you can't really appreciate the difference unless you've suffered the weight of steel plates lol
Also, holy crap armor prices have gone up since I bought mine 😬 that said, get you some ar500 😭
I completely agree with you, if you diregard everything else even just the weight difference can justify the higher price. But i still use steel plates for training, the only instance where higher weight has some merit
In that case wouldn’t UHMWPE be great once it actually becomes level 3+ or 4. Even then polymer is supposed to be much lighter and even be buoyant right?
@@Tree457 it will never be level 4. It can't stop hardened penetrators. They put ceramic strike face over polyethylene to make it level 4. Adds some weight but it's still lighter than the standard level 4 ceramic.
i used to ruck with 60-80 lbs of gear for 15-16 hours a day. sounds like you need to do more weight training kid
Still happy with my AR-600 Steel Ops plate. With a wonderful spall coating.
This was a great video! Thanks for giving steel plates some credit. They're a great option for people who may not have the best access to such things. Or, who may not have options to replacement plates in the future, can't store them in ideal conditions, etc.
I think it's become very popular to hate on steel plates for some reason
@@PolenarTactical I've noticed this, myself! And I think you gave them the right amount of criticism. There are valid concerns over them. But they're far from useless as body armor.
I think this is the best "study" video yet. Short funny intro, succinct commentary that gets to the point and the layout of the tests is almost clinical. Thumbs up!
Very good presentation and extremely proud of the Greek manufacturer
Dude (iam greek) did you see if FN FAL penetrated it bz i was interested to buy 2 for my protection
Nyet! Steel is fine. Heavy, but thin too. Thanks for the share!!
In my experience (Afghanistan 06-07,08,2010) a hit to the plate is pretty rare most folks get hit in the head,neck,arms or shoulders. Also if you get hit more than once in the chest you're probably shot all to shit anyway.
It is really bz like ukraine most dead bodies died by artillery shells ,and by snipers who have shot them in eyes or directly in pasgt
So there is still a case for...... PAULDRONS?
@Лев Лагутов usually they get shot in head ,hands ,legs
Also, as per Soviet Afghanistan experience, groin and legs were popular because of ricochets. When fighting in the mountains.
@Лев Лагутов you usually don’t see where you shooting most of the time and if you do, then even dropped soldier doesn’t means he’s out. There are not hit markers in real life. That’s why in Ukraine soldiers are get shot to cheese, double tapping, but with full mags
for the fragmentation issue couldn't someone make a simple kevlar sleeve/cover to zip up around the plate?
Yeah, those exist, or they can be coated in a thick layer of truck bed liner or epoxy.
Yes simple
I'm wondering if a 10-15ml layer of commercial grade silicone caulk would suffice
A lot of complete body armour set ups both civi and milliraty use a soft amour backing/vest to catch frag/spall with plate(s) ontop to stop the main/high velocity projectiles. (e.g. the osprey PPE system) It's only in recent years due to inproved anti-spall coatings/technology, higher requirent for "modility"/change in battle docterin/manual of arms that plate carriers have become so popular. As with weapon selection, PPE selection "should" be approprate for the expected threat level , but bare in mind cost is always a big consideration, especially when you are funded by the tax payer!
@@TheEzali Soft armour behind the plate will not catch the spall coming off the plate in front of it
I love this channel... I came for the Ian interviews but I've stayed for Ziga.
Paraphrasing the Riddle of Steel: "No one in this world can you trust. Not men, not plastic weapons, not ceramic vests. But this (steel), you can trust".
This video was super awesome and informative. In my opinion I would much rather wear either than nothing in a combat scenario.
Thank you
I agree, anything is better than nothing :)
"Nothing is black or white" he says while standing next to a black plate and a white plate 😂
Right.
Noticed the same thing. Very suspicious assertion from Mr. Polenar.
Especially after that ceramic footage. That was VERY B&W.
Really helpful. Knowing Steel is heavier, I'd probably get a good anti-spalling steel plate, if I had the choice.
so what is actual weight difference on those 2 plates? I wonder if some over layer (like a wet suit -elastic) or the spall guard for steel would keep ceramic fragments captured in armor, pieces better than a void, that's why gravel,sand good barriers as long as they don't spill out
Ceramic-PE plates usually run somewhere between 6-8 lbs for LVL IV protection. Steel usually runs around 7-8lbs for LVL III protection. I've seen UHMWPE LVL III plates as light as 3 lbs. A good spall guard or a steel plate with a very good coating (like the steel ops plates) can contain a lot to all/almost all of the spall yes.
My AR500 level III+ steel plates are 9.5 lbs each, rated up to 7.62x51 AP. My AR500 level IV ceramic plates from the same company are just under 8 lbs each. Plate carrier with the steel plates and no ammo is 19.5 lbs, and with the ceramic plates is 17.8 lbs. If you want lightweight, go polyethylene, but there are tradeoffs there as well.
My issued Ceradyne ESAPIs are like 5lbs each.
Very well done video PT crew.
The key point with anything regarding Body Armor is that if you're taking hits in the plate, you're already in a VERY bad position, and are now in survival mode.
You are absolutely right in saying that anti-spall coatings can make or break a Steel Plate's protection capabilities, they need to be built up to both mitigate multiple hits' spall factors as much as sustaining the longevity of the Steel-- and there are many different proprietary coatings that various manufacturers and retailers use, some perform much better than others. There are also AR550 and AR600 Steel plates on the market that hold up even a little better against AP and other rounds on the top cusp or beyond NIJ rating standards.
Most spalling should be contained by the plate carrier. Now if folks are duct taping the plates to themselves then they get what they deserve.
@@winkleried As an added factor, absolutely, typical plate carriers are great at catching a lot of spall as i've seen in some consulting and testing i've done with steel plates.
A Kevlar sleeve isn't a bad idea either for those really concerned (somewhat irrationally) about it.
@@DJTheMetalheadMercenary I am an Ex-Grunt that became a graduate level Occupational Health professional. As I mentioned in these comments part of my job is to evaluate occupational health PPE for my companies clients. after doing this for over a decade i have a very good BS filter when it comes to Occupational Health PPE sales rep claims . I have gotten into a couple of flame wars with Ceramic plate Fan Bois/wannabe social media influencers showing bare plates getting hit and claiming the spall would kill and them getting extremely hostile when I start asking where the video is showing what happens when the plate is in the carrier....As Ziga mentioned above there is no black and white here, which is something I am very used to professionally.
@@winkleried I absolutely agree with you.
Also former grunt, been doing a slew of different jobs in the sector from executive protection and defense/ paramilitary contracting to private investigation and as a consultant for physical security aspects, I also consulted with 2 Armor manufacturers and retailers in the in-house testing process of their products, the end-user insight is essential to do things right.
@@winkleried There are test with the plate inside the carrier bag and spalling is still deadly. You're full of shit.
The power-up lever on the Mosin is a secret. . .
They did it with AKs and FALs in Rhodesia too.
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 don’t forget New Zealand/Australia
Mosin is bolt action rifle and use stronger carthidges than 7.62NATO
I actually have a nugget in a case thats been sitting in my closet for about 10 years. I hear after 15 years of sitting in a closet they can start to turn into golden nuggets. We will see....
This is the type of content I like the most. TY dudes.
The intro was literally what steel plate people think will happen in a firefight
I was one of those people, but also knew I'd probably take shots to other parts, so I at least had meds, until I got ceramics
Always interesting. Ian and karl have done some "similar" tests on inrangetv as well. Your video and theirs are always instructive. I love you guys.i wish to be able to buy you a good drink soon in slovenia.
Your carrier is just as important, plus the sleeves you can get for your steel to stop spalling. Great video
So basically, wear the composite plate over top of the steel plate, in your carrier. Done👌🏻
The box check for ricochet and spall is good, always pay attention to straight up as you noted, but also low left and right. As in toward the inside of the thighs. Same problems in those areas.
As for ceramic (and to show the difference between steel), something like the test you did trying to move yourselves along on the skateboard via recoil might be helpful. The dispersion of energy between different grades of ceramic is quite substantial, and the total difference between steel and ceramic again is massive.
Giving people a relative understanding of impact force beyond clay cavities can be pretty helpful, even if it seems like a gimpy way to do it.
Just 10s into this video, I'm already laughing. 😆. Love the sword sound when he took out the gun.
Thank you for caveating the shrapnel !
Thank you for doing this video. Some people certainly needed this reality check.
That ending LOOOL I appreciate the effort from him
Finally, a video not sponsored by AR500 or Spartan.
Nice video, about what I expected from ceramic armor!
I would Love to have that M76!
I understood that reference! 00:10
Love the Mosin power-up, that's immediately meme-worthy. :)
I always have watching your vídeos, keep doing this excellent work.
I have a question : siamidis IV plate managed to stop 7.62 NATO or it failed ?
Excellent video as always.
I have a carrier with 12x15 plates front and back. Hefty but durable, also serves as a boat anchor lol
Ceramic Ballistic is best plate, fight me Ziga
Metal plate with anti spoling is better
But ceramic is awsom to
up to 20 yrds XM193 ball (FMJ) shot from 20" will go trough lvlIII plate all day long
IV you mean
@@xenogen tbh I haven't seen lvl IV gets done by XM193 but I saw it pass lvl III
@@xenogen level IV should stop it without a problem
@@PolenarTactical yes
If I had a nickel every time I’ve heard “a hit to the same hole twice is very unlikely” I would have some nickels
Best eastern european youtube channel! 😍
hahaha :D
Those videos are indeed interesting, thank you !
I definitely like this style of video I just wish I could’ve seen the name of that body armor lol
Bulk vs weight is the short answer with a side of cost vs effectiveness and the fact that a rust steel plate is still 100% effective vs a 12 year old ceramic plate that has suffered from age related adhesive deterioration, (only really effects multiple hit capacity as a single hit will still be 99% as effective as brand new).
Buddy has a 22-250 and shot it at 1/4 AR500 steel and it made one hell of a dent. That little 55g round going 5,000 fps does some work. Oh yeah my buddy was told to never shoot the steel with his rifle again.
Tasty intro. Felt like a 12 year old again
Great work 👍
That doesnt seem to be a very good ceramic plate, there are tests of cheap Chinese plates that have done a whole lot better than that. Steel is very nice but its just heavy, those extra 10 pounds make a big difference when you have all your other kit on you.
Agree, but a lot of people carry way to much crap on them anyway. cool doesnt equal practical.
@@armedpatriot8611 amen
Half the problem is that fat wheezy old guys like me are torn between the post-service urge to carry nothing and the post-parental habit of bringing everything. It's a real struggle.
@@GrimrDirge true. I tried to make my setup minimal and it still hit 30lbs with ease without weapon, ammo or water.
@@GrimrDirge right. My view has changed drastically since becoming a father.
@BigChiefWiggles V that’s about where I’m at too. 33 lbs. without my rifle, ammo or fluids.
Another great video from you guys!
Thank you
If it isnt anti-spall put some kevlar sheets on the front face of the plate
that intro made me give you already a thumbs up!
hahaaha - and the outro
Keep it up you brimg fun to relavant issues. to me the take away is that steel plates are more reuseable than ceramic, unless you plan on duct taping it after your firefight. of course if it saved your life you probably will gladly just replace it 🙏
Good old powering up your rifle Zimbawie style
How about green tip M855 out of 20" AR 15 for the lvl III steel plate?
So always double tap a ceramic? Nice good video, as always. Thumbs up
@PolenarTactical on TELEGRAM what?
Great vdo! I dig all your content! Keep it creative with funny dark humor like you already do! You are one of my favorite youbee toobee channel's to check out!
You know the video is going to be good when it starts out with Mosin Pinky.
Not only can the spawling hit your neck, which is a very difficult place to patch up especially if the artery is hit.
The spawling can also go into your armpits and hit arteries there if your arms are pointed forwards for example when aiming a rifle or a handgun.
As well depending on your stance the spawling that goes down can do some real damage as there are also arteries in your legs and some other strategic things down there.
If there is reinforced layer it can stop that easy.
@@joe125ful Yeah right sure.
@@Shieldsz Its really not that hard do that when you put armor to tactical vest pocket,ppls are simply lazy:)
Good video. We once tested plate from aliexpress, it was made from some kind of polyethylene - stopped pistols and shotguns, but deformation was bad.
We did that also, it surprised us how well that plate held up
@@PolenarTactical 👍
Thank you for the information
Always move your range slide up to 800 so it shoots harder
Great video and a lot of information! Steel and ceramic are both good just some are better in certain areas
Informative 👏🏾👍🏾👊🏾
It sounded like you said "ceramic sharts" and I chuckled.
That 2000m shot would've been shouldered against balls. What? What
Thanks!
Solid video well done!
Thank you
Nikita from BSG should take notes.
Very interesting, thanks sir.
Steel works or it doesn't ................. depends on what is being shot at you. Steel is heavier and can have ricochets/spalling
Ceramic is lighter but it will fail after multiple hits and is still vulnerable to the same rounds that will pass through steel. There really is not much more that needs to be said, at least till someone figures out how to make Graphene in sheets.
Concealed powered exoskeleton with titanium plates when?
@@suprtroopr1028 Titanium is about half the weight of steel for the same result. Problem with titanium is it is expensive to "Work". Ever thought/worked through why virtually nobody sells titanium plates? If you do it becomes obvious why not.
@@AKlover I don't usually run the logistics on jokes, so no. I didn't consider it.
This is why company writes THAT IT CAN STOP TILL 3 ROUNDS OF 762 NATO
Great vid.
Thanks
We do a science
BTW, those somebody from your crew dives a black Volvo XC90?
Because I saw one on Island Krk in Croatia with your channel logo on the back...
Haha, that's the president of our shooting club :D
0:09 Volley fire brilliant lolz
Shocked at the cavity in clay behind the steel plates with the larger rounds😳
Dont get shot is my main takeaway from this. 😅
Thx for this video: informative and highly performed as usual!
It would be interesting to see the comparison between most popular Russian army armour and most popular NATO armour.
everone knows putting your mosin sight all the way up makes it shoot harder
Great experiment.🐸🍺🔪🔥
i think steel is still fine to get as long as you have a good fragmentation coating.
I always wanted a thing steel plate covered in ceramic. I bet it'd be tough as shit and ten pounds
Yeaaaasss polenar tactics good channel
Always good content
Tactical Approach Maneuver by Polenar Tactical - 1:30
OoooooHHHhhh!!! Moja DRAGA,Moja Slatka Moja nezamjenjiva M76-ice! 😀
Love the cool scifi intro
Very great test video.
For information, Ballistic test with 5.45 are very uncommon, and in a video of garandthumb, the bullet did not went thought a level 3a plate which is surprising. It can be useful to know these days...
Clicked this video for the M76, that's not one you see everyday in any firearm related videos
That's good feedback, we can make more videos with the M76 :)
Love to see more armor videos test 20" AR's with M193.
Okay okay, that held 7.62x51 I knew.
BUT WHEN HE TAKES THE MOSIN, AND PUT THE SHOT INTO THE ALREADY WORN OUT PLATE, AND IN LESS THAN 10 METERS, AND IT SAFE, Oh I really got lost. First time I see someone testing a caliber like that, and the most impressive thing is to see that the board stays until it's safe. My congratulations for the video, very cool.
Awesome test my slav bro
+ I like your zastava
I'm glad you like it