This Is What A Healthy Disagreement Looks Like
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2018
- This content is taken from Russell Brand's Under The Skin Podcast with Jordan Peterson, link below.
Full interview: • Russell Brand & Jordan...
We all have a bias, whether Left-leaning or Right-leaning. It's essential that we all make the effort to lean Center - the only place where common ground can be established. Russell and Jordan have a conversation that is both expansive and stimulating, in spite of their disagreements. They give us a road map to constructive dialogue.
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Cathy Newman: "so you are saying"
Russell Brand: "I'll say as I understand it and you can tell me if I got it wrong"
Difference between putting words in someone's mouth and trying to figure out truth..
Even just swapping the first one to "so are you saying" creates a much more open dialogue
@@Infernus25 yeah, definitely.. turns statement into question.. as innocent observer from far away Croatia I'm seriously concerned about politics that left is using in US.. No one wants to hear the truth, they either categorize people (sexist, racist, homophobe) or they speak over someone's words during a debate.. they are so scared to hear what someone has to say, cases where someone fought that hard to silence free speech are linked to ex USSR, communist China and not that long communist Yugoslavia.. It's terrifying.. Good luck 🤞..
@@gordanprgy6850 while I agree the left has gone too far by just labeling anyone they don't agree with "racist, sexist, transphobic etc" they at least seem more in touch with the average person economically and also are proactive in fighting climate change. While the right care mainly for corporations and don't believe in climate chnage
Infernus 25, yeah thats exactly how I feel, I like leftist policies but some people in left are just too sensitive, I guess.
@@mojolake2943 Yea like with most things the correct form of action is somewhere in the middle. While LGBTQ rights are obviously important it goes to far when you may be forced to use someone's pronouns
Simple. A debate is to find out "what" is right. NOT, "Who" is right.
juan twotree fax, so many people just want them selfs to be right. like it’s a fight.
I doubt that there is one right thing for everyone rather right thing's for individual people, this ofcorse comes with disagreement with might be followed by fear or violcance hence the problem
@@leopoldivesic4872 the duality of right it wrong (imo) don't exist.
It's hardly ever Black or white. Always a shade of grey.
@@juantwotree5710 yes but people tend not to think that way I mean even you must admit that you process your thoughts in a dual fashion, it's our nature and even if the real objective world doesn't have duality we in our minds have it. Even if I'm wrong about that I still believe that people are prone to conflict with one another.
But if you really think aboht it, there isnt any true right, we may say things we say are right are right and wrong are wrong morally, however it’s something that’s al perspective
I wish they taught debate as a required subject in high school... just knowing basic logic, respect for others, and how to entertain a different perspective is so valuable nowadays.
I teach literature and one of my primary goals is to teach my students how to have a conversation. Freshmen to Senior year, it takes a lot of effort.
Recalling what you’ve read and putting it down in writing one after the other ofc w/critical thinking is a good substitute.
During my last year in high school in New Zealand one of the final Literature assessments was to have a debate against another team of 4, varying topics between groups. We had to then have a debate about said subjects with an opposing and defending side. Regardless of your opinion on the topic you still had to either oppose or defend. Was very interesting and really opened my eyes on having a formal and thought out disagreement/agreement.
Critical thinking is sadly NOT what those in power seek from the masses. Critical thinking should be promoted and encouraged however.
@@stevedixon921 Sure, but you’ve also got an uneducated workforce as a consequence.
this is not disagreement...
this is a DISCUSSION.
where two people, with different opinions, learn new information by not filtering it with toxic biases.
Instead of seeking truth by discussing opinions, now people just choose an opiniõn and try to fight to the end with it
That's what people do, reinforcing of the fittest as they go through the whole thing/conversation
My interpretation is that this was a discussion regarding a disagreement.
But you can have a discussion while having a healthy disagreement
a discussion, where theres a disagreement
they dont agree that means they disagree
i know you wanted to copy, the top comment but a discussion can have disagreements and agreements
in fact thats basically what a discussion is agree or disagree, sometimes but not always right or wrong
Their disagreement is so healthy you can’t even tell if they’re on opposing sides
kittypie haha that's what I thought.
Hit the nail on the head. Most arguments are a result of tribalism, and the assumption of malevolence or incompetence of your opponent. We are all a lot more similar than we think
I didn't see a disagreement. I heard a discussion around ideas. Russell and Jordan had a conversation and walked away having learned more than they came in with. It's clear Russell wanted to understand what Jordan has been talking about and ask some reasonable questions and then listen for reasonable answers. Jordan saw that and was happy to oblige in a reasonable manner back to him. Seems to me they both walked away a little wiser than they went in.
True, but the rubber meets the road once either of these actual, thinking adults casts a vote when it matters.
It's just a sad fact that most voters can never be influenced by adult debate with an option to learn something and change for the better. They aren't interested in positive effect, just waving a giant foam finger for their "side".
Its because neither are moral relativist! They both believe in a transcendent Objective Truth and a higher order in wich conversation/Debate flows more eloquently and can reach some conclusions.
Crazy that this is considered a “disagreement”. It’s called a discussion. It would be nice to resurrect those again in 2020.
Straight ☝🏻
The only thing resurrecting this year is another corona wave
RB way to come in with negativity when neither the video or the comment has relevance to the pandemic. I was wondering where the “disagreement” was but he got the views so fair enough
@@11oshelbourne he was joking.. the only one bringing negativity to this now is you
I feel like it was labeled that way on purpose
To completely disagree with someone, and yet engage with them with respect, grace and honesty, is a superpower.
No that's decency and manners. Something heavily lacking in today's society.
@@jacobvanwy9612- Like he said . . . . a super power.
I understand the hyperbole here, although to respond otherwise I'll say that this isn't a superpower, it's just rare despite being the common expectation in a civilized society.
It’s really not. It’s called being a human being.
@@TheBerkeleyBeauty shut uppppp. Make more of an effort to talk to people.
First time I hear Peterson finish a sentence without getting interrupted.
Watch joe Rogan podcast
@@stevencabrera8558 came to say this 🤣
Cathy Newman: "So you are saying, that Jordan Peterson never makes any sense"
@@user-wg9ok4cy6v
May I respectfully say that that is an opinion, and that I have respect for you for saying it on his home turf
Bc it was a men on the other end. (by saying "men" i dont mean "not a women", more like "not a kid or dumb faren type women or a dumb mofo"
Their disagreement was so healthy, I think I lost 5 pounds watching it.
Omg I love your comment!
Glad i scrolled down here
Losing weight isnt always healthy but ye I getcha.
Hilariously - thx 😂
Alucard so far so good. I laughed a really hearty love which surprised one of my sleeping cats out their sleep 😇
What I like about Russell is that he's careful to not mischaracterize other viewpoints.
A grower and a shower 😝
He seems genuinely interested in other people's thoughts.
Similar to the Joe Rogan interviews. There is no sense or hint of agenda coming from the the interviewer. You could actually feel Russell’s interest when Jordan started talking about divergent/creative thought processes
He’s legendary with women too like this guy fucking tip toes the line of being considered a pervert and has mastered it like no other
@@Sam-sw5iu I think Russell could accidentally mischaracterize Petersons position because Russell is very strong minded and opinionated himself. I'm surprised actually that Russell managed to remain as genuinely open as he did.... And I say that as a huge Russell brand fan
I was never a fan but I have to say, credit where credit is due, Russell Brand is one hell of a good interviewer.
I wasn't either, but if you haven't already by now, check out his youtube channel. It's fascinating.
Just thinking the exact same thing! 👍
Loved this. A clean proper discussion with no toxicity, no biase opinions, interruptions and pure respect for each other.
This is what you call a DISCUSSION and something worth listening to. Something that the Media does not want us to know about.
This isn’t a “disagreement”; it’s two people acting maturely and having a civil conversation- an act which is apparently beyond the capabilities of 90% of people who use social media.
Well your not supposed to have conversations on social media, because it's only 1 dimensional and normal conversation don't work that way.. you need eye contact, body language and tone. Social media should be used for entertainment and fun, not discussions.
99.9%
The joy of a keyboard has ment u hold Polaroid views that are in-trenched so cause people to get there backs up
Edited for the old people that require full spelling
The joy of a keyboard means that people hold polarised views that are in trenched so causing people to get annoyed or argumentative.
@@mantask1537 I think it's too useful of a tool for discussion to bring off of the table. Never before has it been so easy to talk to so many people from so many different places. Feels like a total waste of that opportunity to just be memeing with them all of the time. You used to have to travel a lot to be able to do that sort of thing. Kinda throwing out the baby with the bathwater if you're looking at something that connects information in previously unimaginable ways and the only fitting use you see is for it is entertainment.
We are missing the cues we have adapted to, and it is changing how we communicate as we explore these scenarios. But the most incredible thing about human communication, is it is always changing. Our language and ways of communicating things adapts to us, and we adapt to it. We still have not learned to communicate on the internet. But honestly, the way people talk online in say.... 2008, compared to 2021. I see big improvements in how people conduct themselves. A ways to go. But I don't agree that we give up on having online discussion outside of fun because most of us aren't good at it. Most of us aren't good at most things! And sure, it's annoying as hell.
It's really just a different way of communication. And it's about as 1-dimensional as a book, which is to say it can be as deep as the words in the conversation make it. I'm not sure what you mean by this, or what the relevance of it is. You seem to be looking at the limitations of text, but seem to be ignoring our very long history with the written letter - the internet of the distant past.
Also, who's to say the bulk of internet interaction will always be text? Just food for thought. Rather than toss it out, try to make it better. And honestly, it's not like people do that much better in person.
Make that 99.9%! You are giving the 10% too much credit.
They are actually having a proper discussion that involves both speaking and LISTENING by both parties. Gold.
Traits that are going extinct due to everyone thinking they are right instead of having a discussion.... it's funny how people think that your not able to change your mind and then view things in a different way after new information is brought to light
Why does Russell sound like he's just taken a hit from a helium balloon? 🎈
Leftists: Why doesn't one of them just freak out and start threatening violence? They'll never get a point across like this....
@@ChrisSmith-ec6qp um, the fact that you think you're not a part of the overall problem here is just...
@morgan I'm Aussie but I never wanted to vote for someone who spent their time attacking the other party and offering nothing of their own plans for change.
I've always felt like Russell Brand has been undervalued, I love his ability to just converse with people. This is such a refreshing exchange.
Exactly!
Reminds me of my ethics teacher in college at Ursinus. He preferred us to be able to converse with difficult subjects. He allowed me to be the antagonist in order to start a flow. I made it known I would just present a counter idea even if I did not agree with the position I took. I found that a healthy debate can give a voice to even the quietest person. Everyone has an opinion and a view. Collectively, a bigger picture is seen. Afterwards, I made sure to talk to those I engaged what my intentions were and how I really felt, whether with or against. This led into other amazing conversations outside of class and affected how I handle subtle disagreements in the real world. He was an amazing teacher.
Amazing
@@ryanmoran2403 still one of the best teachers I've ever had.
They use... "Respect" and "common decency" two mysterious and lost arts.
I believe the lost terms we are searching for (again) are "respect" and "courtesy".
I live by respect, always have.
Mindfreak!
Just 'liked' your comment to 420.... time to go smoke a bowl.
Sorry matey I speak English - what are those two foreign words you used?
THIS is how you get someone to respect your opposing opinion.
Exactly. Name calling and degrading somebody for having a different opinion only makes them resent your opinion even more.
It's not about name calling its about understanding the dialects of peterson and the narratives he allows his audience to come to it's clear he doesn't like trans and gender rights to some extent but the arguement of free speech is actually an argument off harassment from a legal perspective that is all that law changed and his lack of understanding this of recognizing it is what lead to his speach becoming dangerous
@@tyshelton2123 Take a breath and write that once more friendo.
@@tyshelton2123 Maybe some punctuation would help your comment to actually make sense?
Only IF that person is willing to accept it.
Thank you for posting this interview bit.
It’s actually very curious how Russel approaches this talk with an open mind and the conversational techniques he uses.
Most importantly, he is seeking to learn from another person and their understanding, aiming to enrich his own understanding.
The techniques he uses are really a toolbox of a “good listener”:
- Doesn’t interrupt
- Puts all his attention into listening
- Asks specific and open questions
- Tries to really understand what his counterpart is talking about
- Summarizes his understanding back to the counterpart
- Presents his thoughts and opinions in a very open, non-forceful way
It’s really cool to see such a civilized discussion.
Excellent description. Well done.
I love these two guys!! Jordan Peterson changed my way of thinking in a matter of two weeks. And I've always loved how open minded and free thinking Russel is. Two intelligent people trying to understand each other
way to hard to understand, im a construction worker. Electrician...lol
I agree and relate! He has changed my way of thinking as well - emphasis on HOW I think, moreso than the content of the thoughts. Being exposed to critical thinkers is really refreshing.
@@LOUDpersonalities I couldn't agree more, especially in a world that changes so fast anymore
When RB says “help me understand” he genuinely means it.
Maybe, but most likely not. It's a classic way to encourage the other party to see the flaws in their own argument. If you point them out there's a huge chance they will become defensive and entrench their flawed belief, allowing the talker to find the flaws themselves leaves them much more open to altering that view
When he says help me understand its deep because it takes everything in me just to hang amd understand him when he's kicking off thought. I'm not stupid but he is stupidly gifted with free thought amd English
@@cockbeard no with russell he is being sincere. hes like this all the time. and with people he REALLY opposes. in this interview, he and peterson agree on the important big things and have differing opinions on some of the details.
@@cockbeard I mean can't it be both? By being genuinely interested in understanding your opponents argument they're more likely to over-explain, partly because you're likely to ask more questions that don't result in them being on guard, but also because you come off as more approachable. So you get to satisfy your own curiosity while simultaneously leaving them less guarded and more open to making flaws, it's kind of a win-win.
Russell Brand is a genius...
The level of forehead in this video is tremendous!
Lol
One would think a big forehead would imply being smart or higher IQ.. Don't look how big your forehead is next time you look at the mirror..
White elephant.. you'll do it anyway because I said so.. Same why you stayed for the most part of this video, how I know you ask? Because you watched and listened closely enough to notice how big their foreheads are, you came here to learn what a healthy disagreement looks like.. and I'm happy you did, cause I did to. Cheers!
I have a forehead so big you could land a jumbo jet. I must be smart lol
somalians have big foreheads need I say anymore
More brain duh
Could listen to these men debating and chatting all day long. Fascinating.
I always love Russell's movies and I've never thought he was dumb but he's a lot smarter than I thought I also think this is the first time anyone has talked to Jordan and actually listened and thought about what he was saying. Everyone usually here's him but stick with their views no matter what
Just don't attach your identity so strongly to beliefs and disagreements won't be fights
In my family there were 3 things we didnt talk about.. money, religion (my family is religious but I'm not), and politics. When I was 30 I started speaking to my grandparents about politics and how they felt about certain things but avoided asking things that would force them to say if they were left/right or conservative/liberal. They opened up a lot, I think realizing they wont be around forever, and my mom was amazed because she never knew how they felt her entire life. I don't think people need to be that secretive, however at the same time it would make for a much healthier society.
@@magnumxlpi that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
@@magnumxlpi that is a great story.
Good advice Rozz !
I can't accept a view as a "disagreement" when the person holds the view that someone I care about doesn't know their own mind/body. Because admitting such would throw their whole world view into chaos.
Title of the video: "This is what a healthy disagreement looks like"
Cathy Newman: "So you're saying obese people can't disagree?"
Bruhh 😭😭😭😭
“So you’re saying women can’t disagree?” Is a funny one too lmaoo
Don't forget that in their eyes fat people can be healthy
Ya killed me there son🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is the one 😂
One of the most fascinating debates I've ever seen. The fact that each party was so respectful of the other was refreshing.
Now THIS is what a "discussion between two intellectuals" looks like. Nobody's trying to prove how their point(s) are objectively more right than the other's, both disagree and debate to find an understanding.
Every time I hear Russell Brand speak I cannot help but laugh wondering about how conversations between he and Katy Perry must have went.
rocknroller167 I've seen some of her interviews and she is also well spoken with a lot to talk about.
StuckInMeta yeah that drug filled disaster of an interview on Ellen had many great points
Fight Milk fr😂😂
iS SCieNcE ReLatEd to mAtH ? ?
Im sure the conversation was great and the sex was wonderful. Your all just jealous. I'd hang with either one.
You mean like... a conversation?
david periard
What is this “conversation” you speak of?
I don't get it. If this is a conversation, where are the fists? The screaming? The lies? They didn't even bring their crowbars! Who comes to a conversation unarmed?!
Metal Jacket Comment of the year
david period lol yeah like civil real life talking
Honestly yea
"the price of creativity is that it's hard to catagorise an identity" fuck man I identify with this so hard
Great discussion! I do hope that others who see this learn something that bugs the hell out of me, and that is you listen and let the other person speak without talking over them. I personally wish that this was taught in schools.
This isn’t even a disagreement but a very interesting conversation.
this is literally how politics should be. neither one of them are acting like 5 year olds not getting their way
@@Holyshift22 Yeah, imagine if politicians didn't argue to prove they were right to gain power, but instead just bounced ideas off each other trying to figure out what would benefit people and the country the most.
@@Dmm3 Yup imagine that. If only most people understood. If we don't i'm not sure if humanity's successes will continue in its current trajectory over the past few hundred years.
Ye right, they are just talking and listening, I don't see any disagreement
I was going to say that,,,,, totally agreed,,,, 2 guys talking and Listening
Holy hell... Russell didn't try to name-call or fit Peterson in a box but actually listened and tried to rationalize not only his own thoughts, but Peterson's thoughts at as well. Okay, I'm modeling all contentious conversations on this.
If I thought that was a genuine statement I would 👍 it. But your placating because we don’t know what else to do at this point.
@El Coro Russel wasn't punching and the fact that you have to frame it that way is the problem.
@El Coro Nope, The Problem. Partisan tribalism disabling discourse isn't an issue unique to myself. It's evident to anyone with the desire to actually act in good faith to solve our problems rather than just destroy the perceived other.
@El Coro You aren't that special or as unique as you think you are. Society exists and the interactions between individuals are what define us as a species. Anyone with even a cursory history of biology or history knows this.
Russell is a comedian and knew he couldn't prove him wrong in this instance.
This was truly a pleasure to watch. Thank you both for a wonderful conversation
Yeah there was no debate here. One of the many things I love about Russell Brand is that, when in conversation with strong intellectuals, he seriously seeks to understand their thought processes. This was an excellent example of Russell clarifying, parsing, and kernelizing Jordan's thought process. He walks us through the posture and process we should ALL adopt when faced with ideas that grind against our own. Humility and seeking to understand. Once that is established then open debate has a better chance of being constructive. The problem with 98% of the common populace is they don't want to go through the time consuming and humbling process of understanding someone's counter point of view. And they mask this wilful ignorance behind a thick veil of emotion.
The reason this works so well is Brand doesn't come in with a "me vs him" mindset like many of JPs interviewers
You're right, he comes with only questions. He never really asserts an opinion that is challengable or requires a serious defense.
Brand's wise enough to know to not start a fight that he can't win. The only way to come out good with Peterson is to engage him in a constructive conversation. If you attempt to take the aggressive, dirty and dishonest Cathy Newman approach you'll end up mangled in the twisted wreckage of your own failed narrative.
Brand is an experienced interviewer to say at least. Some years ago I didn't even like his interviews with Karl Pilkington because he tend to dominate the conversation with his own stories. Now he's a new kind of Brand
@@TheExcellentVideoChannel Peterson has stumbled numerous times when in discussion with both Sam Harris and Matt Dillahunty and has backed out of debates with certain individuals while publicly boasting about how nobody of "their type" would debate him. The man has some serious flaws in his belief structure and his own cognitive dissonance to wrestle with and accomplishes very little in his public discussions other than confuse people with nebulous vocabulary. His views on things within his own fields of study are interesting but the moment he starts talking about religion or politics he really shows his own biases. The guy legit said that Nazism was atheistic and that you can't quit drugs or smoking without having a religious experience.
@@thoughtbom You mean he's a flawed human being with some flaws in his thinking. I'm not looking for a Messiah. I take the approach that no one I will ever listen to is always going to be right but I take the parts that are important to me and scrutinise them before integrating them , or not, in to my understanding of reality. From the perspective of my own interests I've gotten a lot of very useful perspectives from Peterson, Harris , Dillahunty ...
But my point was that if you do a Cathy Newman like attempt at rubbishing him then you will lose . Harris and Dillahunty are way more clued up with considerably better constructed ideas but Brand is not in that league and he knows it , so he wisely chose to not engage in battle.
When a disagreement doesn't look like the modern view on "disagreement" - you know you're doing it right.
Probably my fav comment
That doesn't make any sense. The only prerequisite for a disagreement is expressing two opposing views that can not co-exist.
That's it. Whether or not a disagreement "appears" that way is irrelevant as to whether or not you are doing it right.
However, if your goal is to have a "Civil Disagreement", they are doing it right.
@@sud6646 you sure do not know how to have a respectful disagreement, the irony is unreal 😂
@@TheRainmustFall7 Did I offend you? Oh no!
@@sud6646 i do not have time to be offended, i am only being judgmental :)
what a beautiful conversation! Not at all a disagreement, people loving conversation with each other and exploring our world and it's thoughts!
Love this discussion. It shows how divergent views being shared in a civil way can be highly valuable from an educational perspective.
Brand doesn’t get enough credit for how in tune he is
He has a common understanding of guest. I wouldn't say what you said
ToolforOffice Or how auto tuned he sounds
Even more so than Joe Rogan, now that I think about it.
@@FahimAhmed-xj9lq joe rogan is not in tune lol
He his nothing like this when talking about british politics.
Arguments is proving who’s right,
discussions find out what’s right.
You almost had it bud
@@strawman3070 thought the same thing 😂😅
Tazmanian Devil proving and finding out is the same thing🤦♂️😂
that's just handling matters in 2 different ways, no need to make a formula about it bruh.
Emir Ozdemir interesting
So great to listen to two of my favourite people... both very intelligent, articulate and interesting! Blessings to both, and to all who are listening 🌟🤗
i like both of them so much! they reminding humanity that there is not just your way of thinking. its a very complex world we living in and no one knows everything, even if a person claims to have an answer to everything - absolutely not! and both are calm and reflective individuals. jordan made me calm in so many situations i was heated in or about. and russel wakes me up when im to lazy or wrecked from stressful days.
Jordan Peterson: I think my cat is pretty cool
Cathy Newman: so you're saying that you hate my dog, right?
Exactly! That nut job woman is despicable.
this is so perfect!
LOL
Did you make that up all by yourself, David?
So you're saying all women are accusing men of things they didnt say?
You can see Russell constantly thinking about what words to choose, he's taking great care of what comes out of his mouth. If only Politicians ever tried to understand not just the other person, but also themself.
Same with JBP! I like the way they both speak
@@LexRexLibertarian They both do well here. I do dislike the way JBP often rambles on on other occasions instead of getting more to the point.
Yes
@@woutervanr hmm
Russell is someone who I think most people would struggle not to get along with unless you were intentionally being an arsehole. He's very eloquent, respectful and relatively knowledgeable but also willing to concede to things he might be less knowledgable about.
I have a heck of a lot more respect for Russell Brand after watching this clip, I’ll definitely check out more of what he’s doing now
Did you disrespect him before?
That's called confusion.
Fully agree. Russell use to be an extreme far left activist before he became famous and now, thankfully, he still holds his views which he's completely entitled to, but he seems much more approachable nowadays lol
@@DarrenHarrison7160 Extreme far left activist? Russell? What do you believe a centrist is then?
@@koseorhun You clearly don't know about Russell's past sweetie 😘
Really enjoyed this exchange 👍🏻
This doesn’t sound like a disagreement. It sounds like Russell is trying to understand Jordan
I know right. It was really pleasant to hear them both talk. He was in a personal discussion with him. I love his openmindedness.
If you listen again, Brand is actually trying to trip him up, to show that on occasion Jordan can be a little contradictory in his views, and Brand achieved that. Brand’s intelligence is off the charts, however a lot like so many of this new wave of scholarly types he has seemingly made a conscious effort to extend his vocabulary into the realms where most people haven’t a clue about what he is speaking about. Jordan does the same, these guys and many others could become seriously important mainstream voices, if only they stopped trying to out vocabularise each other.
@@simondefoy7610 Jordan’s vocab is natural, brand’s is clearly an effort.
@@vicsalvo2231 so Jordan is being intentionally obtuse. We all get it
@@zapkvr He’s being naturally* obtuse
What Russell Brand does in this interview is called 'steelmanning'; instead of misrepresenting JP's views and arguments to make them easier to attack, (i.e 'strawmanning') he represents them accurately, just as JP would describe them, before respectfully offering his own views based on this solid foundation.
Other interviewers have instead gone the strawman route, whereby the interviewer will make repeated jabs at JP by misrepresenting his views reductio ad absurdum, which forces JP to restate and clarify his position again and again in a futile exchange wasting everyone's time.
It makes the interviewer look dumb. It makes the side they represent look dumb; the interviewer essentially becomes a strawman of their own position by appearing incapable of engaging in a rational discourse to the opposing side.
We need more interviews like Russell's if we want to actually get somewhere.
imo the result was still the same. Brand was still looking for a gotcha moment and it seemed Brand wasn't listening. I also think it's funny how Brand still thinks that capitalism is the cause of all evils yet i've never heard him define capitalism accurately. It's the same as declaring nuclear power as completely unsafe and polluted without actually knowing how it works. I give him credit for questioning things, but when he interviews people that knows more than he does, sometimes he still disregards what he's being told because it doesn't match his own beliefs. It's the opposite of liberalism.
If Russell got nowhere in this debate at least he was civil and he was willing to hear from the other side which is wiser than how most ppl live in their safe little echo chamber. Personally Jordan Peterson is fucking awesome!!!!
Yes your assessment is spot on, great job.. Did you notice Russell exposing Jordan as the establishment SHILL that he is in the end of the video??
I HATE Jordan Peterson, if there were a hell I would want him burning there for eternity!!
@snide 2 I had no idea is there a channel on RUclips you'd recommend that I should watch that points out his faults. I like to hear both sides. The reason I like jordan is bc he stands for free speech and how strong his argument are. A great example is when he argued against bill c16. I'd like to hear more from your point of view. So I don't live in some echo chamber.
@@danieleasterling3763
ruclips.net/video/Go2b6t7N2VA/видео.html
Jordan is trying to appeal to young men who are a bit naive and slightly confused and who are trying to just make sense of a world full of so much mis and dis information and information in general that it's difficult to get to the truth of the matter.. He's been propped up by the Globalist elites (those at the top of the world stage or hierarchy in which we are all forced to take part in)..
I've been trying to expose him in the comment section of videos for almost a year now and everyday I'm getting closer and closer to making my own RUclips videos out of aggrivation but censorship is becoming such a problem that I'm afraid that it may not even be worth it.. It's a scary time to live in a world where there is an increasing amount of control of information ecspecially in a Country which is supposed to be all about free speech..
Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing.. Listen to the very end of this video where Russell actually somewhat exposes Jordan where he speaks about "mischief"..
I would be more than happy to fill you in on whatever I can, we are literally taking part in an information war..
I think I understand Peterson when he says "you view yourself as the thing that stays constant across transformations." I used to see myself as kind of a keeper of values; keeper of my family's values, maintainer of what I had accepted to be virtuous. Peterson describes that as identifying yourself with what you know. And, I was static- through my own great effort I stayed static. Now, I allow myself to change based on my point of view in regard to those same values and whether or not I think they work.
❤
I love these two, such respect for each other and each other perspectives. I also love the Jedi Mind Tricks - Heavenly Divine Outro 💪
I find myself liking Russell Brand more and more; he's just trying to figure things out. He gets ideas, explores and sometimes abandons them
Very confused manbunboy
@@michael7v6 yeah
@@michael7v6 Immature comment.
When he began to speak more publicly concerning society, he deconstructed himself. He can be flexible and that irritates people trying to pigeonhole his views.
@@RollingThunder69 His early public image was fairly one dimensional. People liked that because it was easy. Then he shattered that image and people got scared.
"I'll call you what you want to me call you, I'm happy that you're speaking to me." That was beautiful.
Made me laugh too
Alexander Gervase I’ll call you what you are not what you want to be called. If a black man told me to call him white man I would just call him black man. If a trans told me to call him her I would call him him. I will say what you are and not what you want because I’m in touch with reality and facts than other people’s feelings
Perfect fauna and flora for a "daddy" joke
Roberto Deoliveira oh you’re so strong.
Dustomatic Yo wtf???😂 thanks I guess
Do you know why this conversation went so well? Because they are both willing to learn.
There are two types of people in this world, those willing to learn when shown they are wrong, and those who call you names and other obscenities because of it.
Ahh, humility. Ain't it grand!!!
This is truly inspiring, it gives me hope that change is possible
To everybody who doesn’t understand how this is a disagreement...
Russell Brand has largely different views on the world than JP.. Instead of directly going against him and arguing his point, trying to influence JP to believe his beliefs, he’s simply trying to understand why JP believes what he believes. He’s asking questions about what holds more significance, asking him about his experiences that led him to his beliefs, etc.
This is very high level discourse that many people will never actually be apart of simply because they don’t care to work on their communication skills and their ability to understand what and why they’re feeling what they’re feeling.
Dakotah Goodin well said 👌
zacklee
What exactly did they disagree on? Where did the disagreement happen?
It's a good interview. I wouldn't call it a high level discourse, just a good interview.
I didn't hear Russell present any opinions in opposition to what JP was saying, because that wasn't the point. He was trying to uncover JP's views and he did it very well. No disagreements that I heard, though.....
465marko Just after the six minute mark is where you see the differing views begin. They spent the whole first six minutes talking about transgender identities and what not and JP’s view that it’s wrong to have to call someone what they want to be called. (If you follow any of his interviews, he WILL NOT call transgender people by their new gender. If you were born a man, he will call you a man.) You see Brand start saying that he’ll call you what you want to be called, he’s just happy you’re talking to him. They disagree on how these concepts should be handled.
I’m not sure if you do or not, but if you know anything about either of these men it would definitely help understand.
465marko Also, right before the 11 minute mark, Brand begins to tell his opinion on JP’s views. I recommend watching it again and just taking an extra listen to these two parts. I hope I helped clear it up.
Almost 12 minutes of Adult human conversation... So refreshing
a cold beer is refreshing brussel is brainwashing all u ppl who think ur better than everyone else because u.listen.2 his ramblings thinking u understand them are as delusional as the sprout himself
I listen to him and I'm absolutely sure I'm not better or worse than you but not because of anything Brand said it's cuz I'm not a dick head and I don't make assumptions about anyone "ASSUME" makes an ASS out of U and ME
@@AaaAAA-jv6ds You have no idea what brainwashing is. If someone talks to you and explains what they think, they are not brainwashing you. Just because some people have trouble following the threads when Russel is speaking he is not brainwashing them.
Please! Help me! Somebody say something non productive to me! I can't handle the rationality
@@eldritchhollow7692 build. Tha. Wall! *Induce CPR* STAY WITH ME BUDDY!
Two really bright guys having a conversation. Well done. So nice to see this without the constant interruptions from interviewers in many of Jordan’s sitdowns.
That was a good listen in the sense they two
People could come together and talk /discuss/explore their ideas and it did not devolve to finger-pointing or blame. The civil disagreement or logical debate form is explored well here 👏
This is so refreshing. The way Peterson will explain something, but only to the point where Brand acknowledges that he understands what he's talking about, then Peterson will immediately move on with his point. They understand each other when they're speaking. They're both so intelligent and converse about so much so quickly. I need 10 hours of these two talking about people.
There's the full hour and a half on russel's youtube :)
@@OCinneide Reminds me of when he spoke to Dianne Abbott on question time ;)
@C Mitchell Are you arguing that his intellect is much greater than Brands? If not, this comment is quite meaningless, as obviously nobody was trying to 'mop the floor' with anybody present. The title of said video was made for the express reason of showing how you would approach a situation with two discordant speakers, rather than having them try to 'mop the floor' with one another.
C Mitchell you shouldn’t try and mop the floor in a discussion but rationally explain your beliefs
@@OCinneide No one suggested one should.
I have to say, this is so refreshing to see a comments section that isn't riddled with personal attacks and unnecessary hatred. So thank you all, no matter your political beliefs, for giving this man hope that peaceful discourse is still achievable in these modern times.
I agree with this on every fiber of my being!
Oh shut up! Sorry I had to!
A little toxicity in people saying that there's no disagreement. Russel disagrees in general with Jordan so he's asking him questions to see his point of view. A healthy disagreement can still be more like an interview than a debate and still be a healthy disagreement. We need to have a lot more of this type of thing in colleges again.
That's the first thing I noticed to, no one is spreading hatred. No one is being abusive. Wow
@@tiya3715 I did not notice this. I saw plenty of it before reaching this area of the comments. *shrugs*
Well done to Mr Brand. Excellent interview style in my view. Engaging and drawing Dr Peterson out in a relaxed and professional manner. Not easy that! Thanks.
I would love to see these two talk again. I'm sure both have had their minds blown by how things have turned out.
Being stoned and watching this has blown my mind; I feel like I’ve just smoked a dictionary.
This is hilarious
Bro same
Lol same listening right now while hitting my bowl.
Lol
Lmao
I’m hearing ya
Disagreement, we used to call this a pleasant conversation.
It seems times have changed for the worst in that sense
We used to pride ourselves on conversation back in the day. Like in the 1900's, read a letter written back then, to now.
@@leroyrodgers6089 There are still enormous amounts of formally written works being created, you are merely focusing on the bad. Global literacy rates have risen drastically for centuries, and it hasn't gotten lower in recent times. We used to pride ourselves on conversation back in the day, just like we do now.
Klas h You and I may, I’m not sure that it’s possible for conversation and I do mean face to face, not through an intermediary such as the internet, to possibly be as glib, nor interesting as it used to be. As social media continues to be our main source of communication, it seems that the nuances of face to face communication would naturally diminish over time, no? Maybe it hasn’t yet, but I’m curious for this next generation that grows up with the internet. I’m 29 so I had a few years where you had to call someone on the telephone prior to MSN getting popular, and I was socially awkward until university. I wonder about those who are awkward and don’t have as many opportunities to truly pontificate out in the open in free flowing language. What about working from home and how that will color the conversations coworkers have with one another? What do you think about that? You have an excellent point about literacy though, reading and writing hasn’t regressed, I was wrong about that. Although sometimes when I read unthoughtful, deplorable comments on RUclips I do begin to wonder. Not in this thread, or on this video, but general RUclips.
watching this even got my eyebrows sweaty
I could have watched solid hour of that. Super respectful and interesting conversation. I love how Russel did his homework and was trying to tease out the bottom line of beliefs. Honestly of all the interviews I've seen with Jordan, he is by far the most intelligent interviewer. So refreshing to have a discussion that did not denigrate into conflict.
I like how Russell and Jordan can listen to each other and engage calmly and respectfully. So fresh to re watch.
"One of the problems that creative people have, they have a hard time establishing an identity, and the second is they have a hard time monetizing their creativity."
This is literally a nail to the head, so much truth, and a real footnote for all creatives.
I’m so glad I heard him say that because I’ve felt this for so long and could never properly articulate or internalize it
8:00 Found this minute extremely interesting.
Wow!
I can identify with that, unless somebody cracks open something that has a different definition.
@@CallMeSlavik dude. You just did for what Jordan Peterson did for you. I have hard time doing that in general, so imagine complex stuff when asked my opinion or thoughts. It’s so super frustrating seening after everything I said I wasn’t able to articulate nowhere near what I felt or thought. So thank you. I’m cop tied that into my brain what you said. Thank you
Me! ✌🏽
Imagine our society being able to discuss like this
We all are able to discuss like this - but some people chose not to.
@@trueamnisias No not really, not "all". It takes a certain level of intelligence and reasoning to be able to discuss like Russel and Jordan in this case. There's far less of those in the World than you'd be led to believe.
We used to, until everyone started giving in to th loopy left.
Once we get rid of first past the post voting, this type of discourse will flourish as opposed to the vitriol that gets flung about in the internet today (something I myself am guilty of).
Be THAT person! ❤️
I wish more people would debate like this with one another. It can be pretty stimulating conversation and it's nice when it does happen. The problem is it requires two participants that care more about presenting a point of view clearly and being thought provoking instead of it being about being right or winning. It's always good to be able to view issues and problems from many angles. Sometimes there's things you learn that way or at least are made aware of from it. Also, nobody said there was a time limit for how long you can sit on the fence with things, and you can even get back on the fence at certain points if you want. There's no harm in any of it, and it's actually a good way to be if you want to learn a lot and want to get down to the bottom things.
And just think back about 10 or so years some of the things you thought and look back at as being naive. Hindsight, wisdom, and newer information. If you approach debate like these guys, you don't feel as bad and likely to keep wanting to find answers and avoiding jumping to conclusions as much as humanly possible. Anyway, I believe it is better letting reason shape beliefs than beliefs shape reason, and I know there's going to be people that disagree with me and that's ok.
Showing someone your point of view without forcing it is such a rare trait, just as rare as being open enough to listen and see the logic in their argument. I like watching these because it’s important to be open to others opinions
This is how to construct an interview; no mocking tone, disruptive manner or jumping to conclusions. Take note Piers Morgan.
Rebel Raccoon n
Don Lemon is the worst... did you see how he treated Terry Crews? It was shameful.
@None None na na na na na piers Morgan is a tool
@None None Stressful or at least taxing, activates sympathetic nervous system, risks distraction from the subject
@@rorz999 hes working at the tv equivalent of a tabloid what do you expect?
He exaggerates everything for entertainment.
10:00 when you tell a bad joke
HAHAHAH
Sharp observation haha
I scrolled down just too find this timestamp. Thanks homie.
I died and had to rewind.
Classic
This is a very pleasant conversation to listen to. I could listen to these two all day.
It always amazes me how people who go through addiction are literally the smartest among us, in both mind and soul. It seems inevitable that we have to dabble in trauma to discover our true self and purpose.
For every 1 Russell brand, there are 1000 crackheads trying to wash your windshield with a newspaper they just slept on. He had the benefit of money and lots of meaningful socialization, but I think most of it was an already clever personality with drugs to cut down on the ego and let him be and do whatever he wanted.
It's so true. It feels like the harder you fall the more aware you are when you crawl out of despair. The trick is that you have to allow yourself to grow. Despair is such a welcoming place, easy to get into. It's warm and cozy there and many spend their entire lives living in it. I urge anyone reading this who is in that place to allow yourself to crawl out of despair. I know it's a wild time right now, but you can do it. I have faith in you!
I love it when a canadian “eh” slips through Jordans speech xD
Go away canadian
@@caneloalvarez8474 no u (uno reverse card)
Dude we see "Eh" so much, it really is thing.
I was literally just thinking this
Canelo Alvarez ..what's your problem ? Canada is the best country to live in. Most freedom, least violence. Low pollution. healthy nature everywhere.......way less segregated than America and extremely low levels of racism and xenophobia (outside of Quebec ...lol)
Thanks for not clickbaiting this like many others do with Jordans interviews.
What? You didn't think Jordan DESTROYS clueless liberal?
Eh, the title promises conflict (albeit politely-discussed conflict) and then the video contains no actual conflict. So at least to a very minor degree it's clickbaity (in that the title promised more than the video delivered.) I mean sure it wasn't titled "one weird trick Jordan Peterson uses to convince his followers", but it was still a little misleading.
@@majmage Eh, you know what I mean. But in case you don't I'm talking about the videos where the titles say "Jordan Peterson fucking OWNS RETARDED LIBERAL FEMINIST" and stuff like that.
Titles with "this is what (blank) looks like" is clickbait though. A non-clickbait title would be "Russell Brand & Jordan Peterson conversation" or something.
@@thomastakeshita4979 Sure, I agree the title isn't _hyperbolic_ in its clickbait-y-ness.
8:05 really fascinating!
I think there's a few key ideas here: One is to focus on agreement, rather than disagreement, first. Another is empathy (with a healthy dose of active listening, including paraphrashing to check understanding.) Another is an attempt to focus on the core material - the crux - of the argument, rather than resorting to ad hominems and the like. Another is a good faith attempt to be ready to change your mind, as opposed to going in with the viiew that nothing the other can say will change your mind. Really well played, I say.
10:00 That "hehe" will haunt me
Omg same 😂😂
@@HaleySmith I had to give u a like, thanks for noticing that.
Yeah I noiced that, creeped me the fuck out
same
Coldest "hehe" ever 😂😂😂
"When you learn something you have to recognise that in some way you were wrong and let that part of you die" Doesn't this explain why so many people refuse to learn.
I believe it does. When I worked as a software developer back in the 80's, I was introduced to a concept called 'ego-less programming'. The point of it was to raise awareness among developers that they, as individual human beings, aren't their code. Put another way, sometimes smart people write code that compiles/runs, but it doesn't do what the technical spec's require. Rather than getting defensive -- as if writing out-of-spec code was somehow a necessary reflection of one's intelligence/professional skill -- we were encouraged to set ego aside, make another go at understanding the spec's, and revising the code as necessary. This preference for ego-less engagement proves useful across a broad spectrum of situations. I wish that learning it -- along with critical thinking and empathy -- was a mandatory element in primary education curriculum. If people had genuine empathy for one another, and were able and willing to think carefully/correctly about ideas... imagine what the dominant culture could transform into in just a decade or so. Even one step toward Utopia is progress, right?
@@RichardHarlos that's really interesting
Indeed, learning is a process turn not knowing to knowing, which the initial state will inherently being wrong.
Eeeeegggggggoooooo
I’ve always been open to criticism. Constructive or not. I just let it be and sometimes learn things. Some people cannot.
A pleasure to watch and nice to see Jordan Peterson seemingly getting to enjoy an interview for once. It's a shame it stopped when Russell got onto the potential "mischief" quotas in Jordan's views. That part was pretty critical to hear an answer on. Hoping I can find the whole interview on Brand's channel.
I was fully aware that creative people have a hard time monetizing their creativity, but I did not know that creative people tend to have a difficult time establishing an identity. Since I was a teen, I've always felt like my identity was too vague or transitory. I eventually stopped worrying about my identity when I realized that being vague and transitory was my identity.
If only our worldleaders would talk to each other like this.
Imagine trump talking normally😂
Behind closed doors they do. But when the public sees a them, they need to align strongly to what they represent even if that means stubbornness. They may be somewhat. Everything a president says or does is intentional for effect, they do have the budget to focus on that.
Why do that when you have an army.
What's wrong with "give oil or die" XD
@@themaharishi8160 😂😂
I never used to like Russel Brand. I found him really annoying and too much of a linguistic show off. But I've warmed to him in recent years. He hasn't changed, I have. For the better. Great discussion by the way.
He has changed though, hasn't he? He wrote a book on it. He was chaotic before. No he's mellow and spiritual
@@CalLadyQED total nob
If you think he hasn’t changed, you obviously didn’t know of him very well prior to this interview. He’s changed a lot. Russell would tell you he has changed a lot if you asked him. No offense
@@wq198mnr Correct. I haven't been following his life path. We've both changed. Is that better?
Kevin Goldsmith : Well said. Same here
Russel brand holds conversation with Jordan Peterson so eloquently!! They were both so pleasant to listen to 💗
Love these two!!! What a dinner party go host that would be. Kind regards ben from NZ
A famous man once said, "Most people listen to reply, they don't listen to understand."
These two don't come in the most people.
For the record, most people don’t even talk to be truly understood. Meaningless small talk where nothing is actually put out there to be gained is the majority of conversation
@@viirahnaerrahveem867 sooooo true,there is no meaningful dialogue,it's all gossip about someone else, never about practical solutions.
how can you reply then? dumb quote..
@@jozen5384 read a book
@@lightmess4841 I am not the dumb person here buddy. This is some wannabe woke bs. You witness a normal conversation and suddenly you come up with the most basic knowledge. Sorry, but it just shows how you seem to consume alot of bs. "read a book" my ass
One talks while the other listens. Then they switch and meet at an understanding of one another. All without interruption
thats the rule of dialogue. many people do not dialogue, they monologue because they are not interested in others point of view, but only seeking approval.
@@dozegamin8604 I agree most people tend to wait for their turn to speak rather than intently listening to where the conversation is going
Its great to hear rhese type of conversations....life is about experiences and what you learn from them...the one 'implicated' perception though people have is that they think they can fukky understand and relate to an experience with out actually experiencing it> on a base level you can>i have found the more profound the experience the greater the possible growth or plummit to a person> i come from a different world my perception is death,homlessness,addiction and incarceration are the most extreme examples. These experiences by extremes teach you fear acceptance gratitude and voulnerability (sry i cant spell) on a different level than normal everyday problems that i find people deal with>I guess the jist is i have found that people who have gone through these issues increase personal growth faster and on a much deeper level than a guy who does everything according to society and never has any or few extreme experiences.
what a great meeting of the intellects, they construct sentences with the same wit and logic i never thought to combine the 2.
*Evidence that when an intelligent interviewer lets Peterson ACTUALLY speak that we can learn a great deal from this man!*
Mischievious title.
So you’re saying... anyone who isn’t a man isn’t intelligent.
@@user-pv7cq9bp5j 🤣🤣 nice reference.
James Diesel so you’re saying since he’s referencing a man that men are better than women and women don’t say anything worth referencing?
i mean, he has hour long lectures and published books if you want to hear him talk
Both men are eloquent as hell and not going to lie, it’s taking a lot of effort for me to keep up. I enjoy these talks and love learning new words/ideas from them.
Brand is not eloquent and misuses words all the time. I'm all for florid flexiloquence but Brand-speak is essentially just nonsense.
Peterson is extremely articulate, but he's not trying to show off or make his speech pretty.
@@iamjurell I agree with the op.
JBP talking shit as usual lol
@@iamjurell He's intermittently eloquent. :) He does tend to misuse words but I didn't catch one in this 11min clip.
@@sircrush3530 Haha, fair enough. I would also concede that he is intermittently interesting.
I've watched this multiple times and every time I appreciate it a little more.
Thanks for the conversation. Also thanks for doctor Peterson for the free identifications of my problems, being the same as Russel in the character side, haha
I'm almost ashamed I ignored Russell. I assumed he'd be a terrible interviewer like so many but he's handled things much much better then the majority of so called professionals. He's made a fan out of me. He still confuses me sometimes but I enjoy his talks now.
But the real question is if given opportunity would you make love to him?
He's a good chap still sold on Marxist nonsense
You should check out when he had Westboro Baptist Church members on his show, people he disagrees with almost entirely. But when his audience starts booing, he tells them to be quiet and let his guests speak their piece.ruclips.net/video/OBA6qlHW8po/видео.html
He's one of the only thoughtful people in public life, sadly
I have to get past his voice and speaking manner, but if you focus on where he is coming from and what he is trying to say, he's quite interesting.
This can't be a disagreement, no one was called racist, discriminatory, sexist, a communist or a bigot!
No one was compared to Hitler either
Dude I love being called a communist though, because it’s true.
Russell Brand would have accused Jordan of being at least three of them names had he been not so intimidated by the ability of Jordan Peterson to make him look the buffoon that he really is.
@@masonh738 that's sad.
Mason H you’re not a communist, you’re a 16 year old. Hahahahaha I’m jk, but I think maybe you’ve got some research to do, and you need to remove confirmation bias from your psyche.
Really enjoyed this, thanks
7:30 | i like JP understanding and explaining a liberal stance as one that is encouraging openness and fluid boundaries in order for information to flow freely. As often, wonderfully put, simple and straightforward. Great pleasure to listen to these two men. Thank you for sharing/uploading.