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4 года назад+117
This is super interesting. Especially the difference betwene nations. In one country the gunner is second in command, in another the driver and in some countries even the loader. You should do a compethensive video on that in itself.
In Finland, the loader was trained as second in command, where as the gunner and driver were left to their duties, which is the right way to do things in my opinion, since the loader has not much more to do anyway. In the Leopard 2 they're just the brawn to move the rounds in the breech and look out one observation port
@@NTSCuser In the British army at the end of your basic infantry training you train either as a driver or a gunner while at the same time doing phase 1 signals ( radio procedure ) training, first aid, NBC training etc. Usually within a year of being at your regiment you will train in either gunnery or driving so that you gain RAC Crewman status and an increase in pay, you will also have done phase 2 signals and other more advances courses. Often you will do a range period doing live firing or you will drive on a few exercises so that you're comfortable and efficient in the new trade you have learned. In my instance I trained initially as a driver and within a year trained as a gunner then did a range period ( Pre BATUS ranges in Hohne Germany ) followed by a longer range period in Canada. Then I went back to driving most of the time, far more enjoyable most of the time, gunnery was pretty dull unless you were actually firing during a range period. Tanks are easy to drive but hard to drive really well, when you get a feel for driving the tank well you don't get anywhere near as many breakdowns and your crew don't get so beat up when you're driving them across rough terrain at speed. I've even drifted tanks on icy ground without throwing tracks ;)
@@tomppeli. Your opinion however becomes a bit irrelevant when you take into account that the Gunner is the 2nd person with the most visibility in crew after the Commander. As the guy in the video said he doesn't see as much from the driver's seat compared to the people in the turret and I doubt the Loader has the advanced optics needed to do the Commander's job, compared to the Gunner.
As a former Leopard 1 Tank crewman, I'll say that being a tank driver has to be one of the VERY best jobs in the Army! And unlike helicopter pilot (probably the best job), you can do it without needing a degree. :-) Tank gunner is, IMHO, the worst tank position: Traverse Left. Traverse Right. Traverse Left. Traverse Right. Rinse and repeat all bloody day. Mind you, shooting the guns is fun, but most time out bush isn't spent on live fire drills, so from dawn to dusk, you are bored out of your brain, traversing your arcs, stuck inside your cramped position, with the crew commander occasionally dropping things on you. Not only is it like driving a 42 ton rally car, but when you get into the "flow" of driving, it is like the tank becomes an extension of yourself and instead of riding rough over the terrain, it is like you are floating over the ground. And then your crew commander screams at you, breaking the Zen. :-( I didn't find the tank that hard to drive, although the newer Australian tanks might have had better transmissions than the older German ones. The vision blocks are hard to see through, although it gets way better with practice, as you learn how to understand what you are seeing and how to make the most of the three you have. A big issue with the blocks is when there is mud on the ground and it gets into your view. Every 30 seconds you pull a block down, insert another, wipe the old one clean. Then do the next one. By the time you've done all three, you are back to having to clean off the first one. It is one of the reasons that I have my doubts about the T-14 Armata and all its cameras. How do you clean the inevitable mud and dust when you are in the hull? You can't reverse one of these without guidance and the rear of the vehicle is always caked, either with mud, or dust. Oh, and then whenever you stop, you've got to jump out and get in the mud to check the condition of the running gear. Generally, it takes about 12 months to produce a good quality tank driver, with the early days being particularly hard on everyone. It can be dangerous work, even for an experience tank crew. One friend lost a finger in the turret traverse and I nearly had my elbow broken, when the idiot crew commander traversed the turret mere seconds after I told him (and he acknowledged) I was adjusting something in the hull (I was in the gunner's position). About two years into my time as a driver, I drove down a hill going cross country, aiming to go around the creekline in front of me (an Australian Puckapunyal range creek, with bugger all water, with a width of about the length of the tank and a depth of about 2 metres). The grass was higher than the glacis plate, so I had very limited vision. Unbeknownst to me, the entire turret crew were thumb up bum/mind in neutral and the creek didn't end where I thought it did. We emerged from the grass at bottom of the hill at speed, to be greeted by the, much longer than I thought, creek (which the damned crew should have warned me about, given their better view). With two options, to either slam on the brakes and dump the tank into the creek bed, or to hit the pedal and hope for the best. I went for the second option, we flew over, hit the other side, bounced out and came to a halt. I jumped out and checked the running gear and we'd broken a torsion bar and busted a couple of other things. The loader was thrown all over the inside of the vehicle and sustained an unfortunate back injury. The gunner and crew commander were OK, because of their more confined spaces. My sergeant arrived from his tank and promptly told me to sit down. Turns out, I'd hit my head on one of the vision block hinges and had a lump half the size of an egg on my forehead. I was too concussed to realise that I was concussed and was off with the fairies about ten minutes later. Anyhow, both me and the loader spent the next few days in hospital, although be both emerged OK. Driving at night time is also an entire skillset on its own. Unfortunately, I'm also night blind (goes with having superb colour vision) and was an active danger to the crew if I tried to drive without the BM8-005 night vision scope, which slotted into the centre vision block and being early generation was BIG and bitch to get in and out. Nearly rolled the tank one time I tried driving without it. Good times though! :-) However, the perks are good. Better food, with an electronic kettle to make brews on the go and someone else (the operator/loader) to cook your meals for you. Jack rations stored inside the NBCD filter compartment. Heater and later on cooling as well. Tend to stay drier during the rains (although the hatch would leak and the steel moulded seat seemed designed to catch all the water. Sleeping on the engine deck is like having your own electric blanket out bush! I remember one of the first times I got to drive a tank during my Initial Employment Training. I just sat there, basking in the sun (I was driving opened up) and thought, I AM BEING PAID TO DO THIS! It was an unbelievable feeling! I did enjoy playing games with the grunts though. There was the time that I got out in the middle of winter and loudly exclaimed to the platoon next to us "Fcuk its hot in there!" Although we didn't have the heater on, because the heater seals would burn when going through one of the many creeks and boggy areas on Puckapunyal range, not that the infantry knew. I then proceeded to take our toilet portable toilet seat and walked past them to do my business in the treeline and came back to a nice hot cup of coffee. Screwing with the poor infantry's minds never got old. Am I evil? Also, when compared to the infantry, you have the convenience of driving to your death, instead of having to walk. ;-) As you can probably tell, I loved my time as a tank driver. It was certainly one of the best jobs in my life, although I eventually moved, because it lacked something in the "meaning and purpose" department and ended up in the Australian Army Psychology Corps.
i hated it personaly, i drove an Abrams in the USMC for two years and it was god awful. there was the fun bits but i was very happy to move to the gunner position. (didn't get much of a chance to be a loader, once i made CPL i was immediately moved to the gunner position.)
Mate! That's good. Copy what you've written here; so you'll have it if RUclips goes AWOL, and then do some autobiography films for the internet. Or just a podcast. What you've written here is a better script than most military videos on RUclips
How where the Psychology corps? But overall love reading about stuff like this, a long and enjoyable section of tidbits and every day life things for the crewmen, things you rarely get told in other settings.
@@davidmccormick7419 I haven't driven the Abrams, but would really enjoy the opportunity. I suppose it boils down to what you find the most interesting. I just loved the whole 40+ ton rally car thing! :-) With respect to ranks, it is interesting how things are different in different militaries. In Australia, the gunner, loader and driver are all Troopers (Privates). The only exception to this is that the loader in the Troop Leader's vehicle is a Lance Corporal. In a troop of three tanks, there was only one Corporal, who commanded the Bravo vehicle, a Sergeant in the Alpha and the Troop Leader (LT). Not sure how it works in troops of four tanks. How does it work having corporals in other positions? Does this mean that you have multiple corporals and sergeants in a Platoon of tanks?
@@glynwelshkarelian3489 Thanks. I really appreciate the feedback. I a former crewmate and I have thought of doing some tank education videos and walkthroughs at the Tank Museum in Puckapunyal, but COVID has slammed the brakes on everything. Have to revisit it! :-)
@@daniels_0399 very interesting information Also cus of condition of the war, crews tank has been chosen from different unit who were experienced in combat
@@daniels_0399 I always have huge respect to Soviet soldiers. Despite difficulties they faced during the war, they still defend their home and push back enemy
@@therebelfrogy9287 Red Army tanks in 1941 also suffered from a lot more downsets other than their at times extremely poor training. In summer 1941 thousands of Soviet tanks were sent into battle without gun sights, being forced to look down the barrel to aim. In the first weeks of the war they oftentimes didnd't have any ammo apart from their machineguns and were recorded by the germans attemting suicidal ramming attacks against German artillery and AT guns. Coordonation with the infantry was extremely poor, and that resulted in tanks being sent in blind only to be blown up by german infantry with mines and grenades. Red Army tanks didn't have radios in them, German ones did, the Red Army tankers had to wave flags from open hatches to signal other friendly tanks. Because it took months for the front to stabilise and set up cohesive supply lines, thousands of tanks were left without fuel in the field, their crews were oftentimes either ordered or chose on their own accord to remain with their tanks and keep fighting until destroyed. This sometimes (I don't know how often, I've only read one account) resulted in them being bombed by Soviet planes who didn't know the crews were still in, in order not to let the tanks fall to the germans. These are just the things that come to mind, there's much more to be said.
Former M1A2 driver here: Can confirm, driver is the best job. It's the only comfortable seat by a long shot, and you get to miss out on some of the work because you have to be in the seat while your crew does refueling or repairs track. However, you'll never feel as small or as vulnerable than you will when driving in combat conditions. To the driver, the enemy is always invisible. They could be any where, in any direction, able to kill you from several klicks out. And all you have to help you navigate that kind of world is a few periscopes.
As I pilot I can relate to the stress of demands like Jens Wehner does driving a tank. First off being aware of the fundamental capabilities of the aircraft, knowing what all the dozens of gauges, radio equipment, and proper engine controls. I probably did not need the muscle that Herr Wehner needed, but there is something called G-forces, as some of the maneuvers did involve increasing and decreasing values of G (trust me, NEVER fly on a full or empty stomach!). So, I guess my dreams of leisurely driving a Leopard along the autobahn, top down, at top speed have been dashed. As to gun noise (1:04), my (complete and total) guess is your gun the pressure wave is directed forward at end of your tanks barrel, well away from your tank, so you experience little. But the tank next to you the perpendicularity (from barrel direction) expanding pressure wave hits your tank, thus louder. Thanks for sharing your experience, Herr Wehner!
What you say about air pressure when the gun is firing is probably true. This is the case with muzzle brakes on rifles, the shooter doesn't notice their rifle being particularly loud with a muzzle brake attached but the people to the left and right of the shooter do, and in some cases, they even feel the air pressure coming from the muzzle brake.
Driving under combat conditions has even more inconvencies like the most dangerous one: constant high noise while working highest awareness due to the poorest view Its physical and mental exhaustion under highest pressure cause if you turn off the engine you still have to do daily tank services and the bureaucratic stuff like the log of activities, supply demands like missing oil and getting signatures in time
Now I just want to ask Mr Wehner if driving a tank has altered in any way how he drives a car, have any of the principles carried over as it were. Thank you for another very interesting video.
Thank you so much Jens! Your story was such an amazing thing! It was very interesting to know about driving that model of tank. Leo 1 is not the most popular tank, and it makes this information especially significant! I would also like to express my respect to Bernhard. I'm historian from Russia, mostly in WWII topic, and both your "Military History" channels were such a treasure for me. I watch almost every video from the channel. Ich danke ihnen tausendmal!
Very nice narration and insight from a practical standpoint from someone who knows from his personal experience. I was in the US Army Aviation Branch but always wanted to drive a tank. I was in Germany in the 70's and spent two very cold winters in Grafenwoehr on NATO's annual Reforger exercises and was always fascinated by the American and German tanks rumbling across the mock battlefields.
This was really great. Learning from people that actually did what we can just imagine is really interesting. Well done and please keep these interviews coming. So, he said that it was exhausting to drive the Leopard 1 in the exercises and I fully believe this. Then I thought, how difficult it must have been to drive a tank in the war, when the guys shooting at you really want to kill you? This thought sent a shiver down my spine.
Driving was a pleasure, though a tad tiring in the MT-LB, due to everything being muscle-operated. To be fair, it was practically a combat taxi at best and a multi-kill for the enemy at worst. I agree on being blind. The tank commander was of little use buttoned up. Reversing buttoned up is very, quite interesting, especially for outside observers as the tank backs up, weaving between the trees, without anyone observing. The MT-LB in Finnish service had the heater, just like the brakes, either on or off. There was no in between. In total, we used the inboard heater for the crew only twice during our time in service.
Thanks for that. Always interesting to hear other veterans stories. One thing about being a veteran - is that we've all got stories ... The only thing missing was the beer. Stories always go better with beer. .
I drove a variety of British tracked fighting vehicles in my time in the army. The hardest, I found, was the FV180 Combat Engineer Tractor. The breaks were savagely sharp. Constantly breaking down and a swine to work on. The Cheiftain AVRE was my favourite. Awesome vid. Thank you
I would be interested in a longer video about how a tank would approach combat. Espacially urban combat tactics for tanks would be interesting. This video was just a small glance into the tactics and i now want more :D
I was a tank driver for 2 years on M60 tanks , my biggest problem was lack of sleep . I never threw track not once because I always did track maintenance. Driving on German roads in traffic was also very challenging.
Driving under combat conditions has even more inconvencies like the most dangerous one: constant high noise while working highest awareness due to the poorest view and forced to anticipate the terrain cause each ditch, trench lets the tank front dive into but more important expose the soft and weaker underbelly just half a second later when you start getting out of the ditch. You have to read the terrain, evade obstacles, lower speed while you're observing and anticipating your fellow tanks curses and watch out for enemies while the Commander and Crew or other Tank Commanders are exchanging thoughts till out of a sudden while talking to the General about whatever your commander gives you a new order that you might mit understand (due to poor visibility) or crosses your anticipation. Its a complete physical and mental exhaustion under highest pressure like a Sports Pro cause I had been a rower before at international level. In top: if you turn off the engine you still have to do daily tank maintenance and the bureaucratic stuff like the log of activities, supply demands like missing oil or lubricants you have not in board and getting signatures in time cause if you turn off the engine your commander usually is gone 5 seconds later. Do not forget that a tank in combat conditions offers nothing like a nowadays car or truck regarding suspension comfort and back in the days of cold war manoevres you had to keep the Tank closed the whole day. Then you feel Like in a tiny submarine, but back then without climate control and heating cause usually the Tank stands still 80% of the day and then you will sweat or freeze ... even in the same day. And one important point: be aware of the slope on a street. If you see your own Tanks coming be prepared that a Driver can fell asleep like you and can crash into your Tank If the slope on his lane goes to your side cause then this driver has countersteer the slope What many people know. In countries where you drive right the Tank "straight" steering lets the Tank slowly turn right of the street to avoid counter collisions with the left lane ... If the Driver lost conscience the Tank will slowly turn right of the lane - but not in case your lane has a strong slope towards left lane. If you ever met a Tank coming steadily and straight to the line you will be terrified if the Tank crosses the middle line cause you have to react instantly going right into the Woods or left onto the others lane. Can end deadly for you in the left If there is a column of Tanks but leaving a street at 40 or 50 km / h into the Woods in the right side can be as deadly. Finally: as a leading Tank you as a Driver will have a 5 times better view than those behind you that suffer under the dust and dirt of the leading Tanks and the Limited sight cause your sight is limited up to the back of the Tank in front of you. Finally: I volunteered as Tank Driver cause I did not wanna Walk and Digg trenches into the dirt like infantery battalions ... but at least in our Battalion the Majors attitude was that Tank crews had to proof that they were better than Infanterists ... so I got both of it , Tank Driver and in part time becoming a master of the MG training for a ROMMEL competition ... cause I liked the shooting, but learned to hate to carry the weapon and 2 ammunition boxes and Backpack and also the gas mask bag. Part of the competition had been a fast 5 km march to the shooting range where every second counted. As a Team of 2 with 2 MG fully equipped we had started to train the 5 km to run the whole distance instead of marching. And on the shooting range we had to Fight 3 x 3 targets with 100 rounds in the belt, but each shot less gave points so we shot bullet by bullet and the best we're able to hit all 9 with 9 shots and 91 points minutes after the run ... German Army has not been a "Zucker schlecken" in the cold war era which means not a piece of cake but lot better than Imperial trench warfare of 1915 for sure.
As it happens, I can drive a tank. :) 8 years in a US Army heavy mechanized brigade, including 5 in an Armor Battalion. And yes driving while buttoned-up for a long amount of time can be completely exhausting. Sometimes it can be worse if the hatch is open, like if you are driving in bad weather and don't have anything but your helmet and regular uniform on. All you can do is sit and let the rain pour on you while you drive and the heat can't do much with the hatch open.
I usually wind up being the driver when we use tanks in "Arma 3" (nobody else wants to), and yeah, you can't see ANYTHING. So I guess the vehicle modelers got that right. Next time I will crank the heat in my apartment way up for an even more immersive experience. ^_^
What an interesting video. I was fortunate and was allowed to drive an M5 decades ago, and only had one input from the guy who was in charge. Never really thought about what I would be like in combat conditions. My memory of that time was mostly "so cool - I am driving a piece of history!" This really presents a different perspective.
Certainly fatiguing. For us the Dvr is the most junior person in the crew so they also have to do a lot of other jobs and in addition the vehicle needs to be maintained - The Horse, the Saddle, the Man. Track work at 0200 with no light is always "fun". As a Troop Leader and Squadron Commander though its vital to have a good driver, as you are busy commanding your unit and can not spare a lot of time to micro manage the Dvr (Left stick, Right stick, etc.).
Love driving a tank. Buttoned-up, combat driving the loader and gunner can get motion sick. The commander wants the heat on and the breech and turret move all over. Nothing to focus on in the distance to steady your tummy.
The best job on a tank would be the repair crew many kilometres in the rear. 😅 In the tank museum in Sameur in France they have a repair/recovery tank on a panther chassis.
Driving an M1A1 was only enjoyable in the 'up' position with the hatch open. The way we sat at an angle in the drivers hole usually made me nauseous when buttoned up. Those simulation at Ft Knox was so bad they even had puke bags at the ready. One time in Iraq, the hatch wouldn't close all the way so it rattled endlessly and annoyed the hell outta me.
While training airborne reconnaissance in our unit, we had the helicopter pilots doing a gunnery training ride in a quite hilly area. They also had to struggle with nausea because it was completely unfamiliar for them not to see the surroundings, only the distant targets through the gunners optics while moving.
That was something I'd never thought about. Having a vulnerability to motion sickness ... yeah ... I can see where that would be a problem ... I don't have a problem with it if - I - am the one driving though ... and I've read about pilots having the same reaction. They were fine as long as they were flying the plane but could get queasy if someone else was ... .
I was hoping he would talk more about teamwork communication stuff, like how the commander orders the driver to do what it needs to be done, as I can imagine this can be quite hard to do, specially under combat conditions. Like for instance do they have some measuring system for turning, reversing, pivoting, etc? Is such information usually classified?
In the US Army only gunnery commands followed a strict format. Generally the crew would get used to how each other operates and what the TC expected of them and the commands given to the driver in whatever manner got the job done. Most of the time we were at the point where we were casual in everything except gunnery and battle drills. Note: one of the worst offenses a driver could commit is crossing a ditch or a berm without calling out: "BUMP!!!' beforehand.
Well if you think that the escape hach is right beneath the driver feets.. Surely is there most " survivable" job in a tank.. Especially in a Leo 1 or a m48/m60
Driving was fine in the M-60 series, but nothing matched being at the Cadillac's (the nickname in the US Army for the tank gun controls, based on the manufacturer).
Used to be a CV90 driver. Best job I ever had. Commander and Gunner can bitch at him as much as they like, but without the driver, the tank is just a glorified, metal pillbox.
Really interesting video. Though I was confused about one bit: Fighting inside the tank about what to shoot at? How is this possible? Does the tank commander not have complete authority over this?
Yes, and no. A German Tank Crew is a Team. The Commander has his functions and tasks, but is not a dictator. In more extreme cases, the modern German Soldier is actually encouraged to not follow commands blindly and unquestioning. Because, history. Sounds messy, but it works, and yes one can get in trouble for disobeying reasonable orders.
@@matt47110815 Thank you for the answer. Yes, I have heard about the orders and the encouragement to not blindly obey them. But I do think that we are not yet far enough that soldiers would debate which enemy is the better choice to shoot at on the basis of whom has fathered fewer children so that the morally correct choice can be made who to shoot. What I'm trying to say is, which enemy to shoot at would be a reasonable order in my eyes, as opposed to being ordered to shoot an ambulance, where a debate would be in order. I hope my thoughts make sense.
If I may borrow insight from WoT (Thank you Quickie-Baby): shoot the one that can kill you, not necessarily the easiest to hit. A tank crossing may be easier to hit, but may not be as dangerous as the one farther back. Like a tank destroyer - thinner armor, better gun. BUT, that is a game, not real life, so I dunno. (How much is two cents worth anyway?)
Funnily, the Israeli driver my good friend worked with back in 1973 in the IDF thought he had the easiest job on the vehicle because of the following: 1.) Commander has to command and talk with everyone in the tank and out of the tank. Poor guy is basically non-stop multi-tasking and can't mess up any of those tasks without putting everyone at risk. Also, poor guy was prone to getting hurt, maimed, or killed because of the whole head out of the hatch just to see what was going on. 2.) Gunner has to be very good at shooting, learning to range by eye, how to adjust the gun for all the variables, and of course, leading moving targets. Compared to what he as a driver had to learn to be good at his job, gunnery was like aerospace engineering to him. 3.) Loader had to be strong as an ox and fast as a gazelle while loading huge shells in very cramped tanks. Also bit miserable when the turret moved around so much because half the tanks Israel had did not have nice turret baskets and ready-racks to make it easy for the loader. Loader also was always the junior man, so he got to do all the dirty jobs first, only helped when the commander felt it necessary. 4.) Driver only had to focus on following directions from the commander and doing so as smoothly as the machine would let him as a kindness to the rest of the crew who were getting bounced around enough as it was. Oh and it being the Sinai, he did have to keep a somewhat close eye on all the temperate gauges just in case.
Jens Wehner has a private instagram account where he posts photos of Military Objects he encountered over the years: instagram.com/militaerkurator/
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This is super interesting. Especially the difference betwene nations. In one country the gunner is second in command, in another the driver and in some countries even the loader. You should do a compethensive video on that in itself.
In Finland, the loader was trained as second in command, where as the gunner and driver were left to their duties, which is the right way to do things in my opinion, since the loader has not much more to do anyway. In the Leopard 2 they're just the brawn to move the rounds in the breech and look out one observation port
My understanding - from talking to an old tanker - was that everyone starts as a driver then works their way up the command chain?
@@NTSCuser, this I'm not so sure about, but I would imagine that is with extended, optional service time for personal gains.
@@NTSCuser In the British army at the end of your basic infantry training you train either as a driver or a gunner while at the same time doing phase 1 signals ( radio procedure ) training, first aid, NBC training etc. Usually within a year of being at your regiment you will train in either gunnery or driving so that you gain RAC Crewman status and an increase in pay, you will also have done phase 2 signals and other more advances courses. Often you will do a range period doing live firing or you will drive on a few exercises so that you're comfortable and efficient in the new trade you have learned. In my instance I trained initially as a driver and within a year trained as a gunner then did a range period ( Pre BATUS ranges in Hohne Germany ) followed by a longer range period in Canada. Then I went back to driving most of the time, far more enjoyable most of the time, gunnery was pretty dull unless you were actually firing during a range period. Tanks are easy to drive but hard to drive really well, when you get a feel for driving the tank well you don't get anywhere near as many breakdowns and your crew don't get so beat up when you're driving them across rough terrain at speed. I've even drifted tanks on icy ground without throwing tracks ;)
@@tomppeli. Your opinion however becomes a bit irrelevant when you take into account that the Gunner is the 2nd person with the most visibility in crew after the Commander.
As the guy in the video said he doesn't see as much from the driver's seat compared to the people in the turret and I doubt the Loader has the advanced optics needed to do the Commander's job, compared to the Gunner.
As a former Leopard 1 Tank crewman, I'll say that being a tank driver has to be one of the VERY best jobs in the Army! And unlike helicopter pilot (probably the best job), you can do it without needing a degree. :-)
Tank gunner is, IMHO, the worst tank position: Traverse Left. Traverse Right. Traverse Left. Traverse Right. Rinse and repeat all bloody day. Mind you, shooting the guns is fun, but most time out bush isn't spent on live fire drills, so from dawn to dusk, you are bored out of your brain, traversing your arcs, stuck inside your cramped position, with the crew commander occasionally dropping things on you.
Not only is it like driving a 42 ton rally car, but when you get into the "flow" of driving, it is like the tank becomes an extension of yourself and instead of riding rough over the terrain, it is like you are floating over the ground. And then your crew commander screams at you, breaking the Zen. :-(
I didn't find the tank that hard to drive, although the newer Australian tanks might have had better transmissions than the older German ones. The vision blocks are hard to see through, although it gets way better with practice, as you learn how to understand what you are seeing and how to make the most of the three you have. A big issue with the blocks is when there is mud on the ground and it gets into your view. Every 30 seconds you pull a block down, insert another, wipe the old one clean. Then do the next one. By the time you've done all three, you are back to having to clean off the first one. It is one of the reasons that I have my doubts about the T-14 Armata and all its cameras. How do you clean the inevitable mud and dust when you are in the hull? You can't reverse one of these without guidance and the rear of the vehicle is always caked, either with mud, or dust.
Oh, and then whenever you stop, you've got to jump out and get in the mud to check the condition of the running gear.
Generally, it takes about 12 months to produce a good quality tank driver, with the early days being particularly hard on everyone.
It can be dangerous work, even for an experience tank crew. One friend lost a finger in the turret traverse and I nearly had my elbow broken, when the idiot crew commander traversed the turret mere seconds after I told him (and he acknowledged) I was adjusting something in the hull (I was in the gunner's position).
About two years into my time as a driver, I drove down a hill going cross country, aiming to go around the creekline in front of me (an Australian Puckapunyal range creek, with bugger all water, with a width of about the length of the tank and a depth of about 2 metres). The grass was higher than the glacis plate, so I had very limited vision.
Unbeknownst to me, the entire turret crew were thumb up bum/mind in neutral and the creek didn't end where I thought it did. We emerged from the grass at bottom of the hill at speed, to be greeted by the, much longer than I thought, creek (which the damned crew should have warned me about, given their better view). With two options, to either slam on the brakes and dump the tank into the creek bed, or to hit the pedal and hope for the best. I went for the second option, we flew over, hit the other side, bounced out and came to a halt. I jumped out and checked the running gear and we'd broken a torsion bar and busted a couple of other things. The loader was thrown all over the inside of the vehicle and sustained an unfortunate back injury. The gunner and crew commander were OK, because of their more confined spaces.
My sergeant arrived from his tank and promptly told me to sit down. Turns out, I'd hit my head on one of the vision block hinges and had a lump half the size of an egg on my forehead. I was too concussed to realise that I was concussed and was off with the fairies about ten minutes later. Anyhow, both me and the loader spent the next few days in hospital, although be both emerged OK.
Driving at night time is also an entire skillset on its own. Unfortunately, I'm also night blind (goes with having superb colour vision) and was an active danger to the crew if I tried to drive without the BM8-005 night vision scope, which slotted into the centre vision block and being early generation was BIG and bitch to get in and out. Nearly rolled the tank one time I tried driving without it.
Good times though! :-)
However, the perks are good. Better food, with an electronic kettle to make brews on the go and someone else (the operator/loader) to cook your meals for you. Jack rations stored inside the NBCD filter compartment. Heater and later on cooling as well. Tend to stay drier during the rains (although the hatch would leak and the steel moulded seat seemed designed to catch all the water. Sleeping on the engine deck is like having your own electric blanket out bush!
I remember one of the first times I got to drive a tank during my Initial Employment Training. I just sat there, basking in the sun (I was driving opened up) and thought, I AM BEING PAID TO DO THIS! It was an unbelievable feeling!
I did enjoy playing games with the grunts though. There was the time that I got out in the middle of winter and loudly exclaimed to the platoon next to us "Fcuk its hot in there!" Although we didn't have the heater on, because the heater seals would burn when going through one of the many creeks and boggy areas on Puckapunyal range, not that the infantry knew. I then proceeded to take our toilet portable toilet seat and walked past them to do my business in the treeline and came back to a nice hot cup of coffee. Screwing with the poor infantry's minds never got old. Am I evil?
Also, when compared to the infantry, you have the convenience of driving to your death, instead of having to walk. ;-)
As you can probably tell, I loved my time as a tank driver. It was certainly one of the best jobs in my life, although I eventually moved, because it lacked something in the "meaning and purpose" department and ended up in the Australian Army Psychology Corps.
i hated it personaly, i drove an Abrams in the USMC for two years and it was god awful. there was the fun bits but i was very happy to move to the gunner position. (didn't get much of a chance to be a loader, once i made CPL i was immediately moved to the gunner position.)
Mate! That's good. Copy what you've written here; so you'll have it if RUclips goes AWOL, and then do some autobiography films for the internet. Or just a podcast. What you've written here is a better script than most military videos on RUclips
How where the Psychology corps?
But overall love reading about stuff like this, a long and enjoyable section of tidbits and every day life things for the crewmen, things you rarely get told in other settings.
@@davidmccormick7419 I haven't driven the Abrams, but would really enjoy the opportunity. I suppose it boils down to what you find the most interesting. I just loved the whole 40+ ton rally car thing! :-)
With respect to ranks, it is interesting how things are different in different militaries.
In Australia, the gunner, loader and driver are all Troopers (Privates). The only exception to this is that the loader in the Troop Leader's vehicle is a Lance Corporal. In a troop of three tanks, there was only one Corporal, who commanded the Bravo vehicle, a Sergeant in the Alpha and the Troop Leader (LT). Not sure how it works in troops of four tanks.
How does it work having corporals in other positions? Does this mean that you have multiple corporals and sergeants in a Platoon of tanks?
@@glynwelshkarelian3489 Thanks. I really appreciate the feedback. I a former crewmate and I have thought of doing some tank education videos and walkthroughs at the Tank Museum in Puckapunyal, but COVID has slammed the brakes on everything.
Have to revisit it! :-)
Gunner: *SCREAMING AT YOU*
Commander: *SCREAMING AT YOU*
You the Driver: (ಠ_ಠ)
T-34 crew
Commander *kick your head multiple times*
Gunner *screaming at you*
Driver: chill fam. I have only been trained for 3 months
@@therebelfrogy9287 The duration of training might have been 3 months, but in 1941 Soviet tank crews had something like 10 hours experience on average
@@daniels_0399 very interesting information
Also cus of condition of the war, crews tank has been chosen from different unit who were experienced in combat
@@daniels_0399 I always have huge respect to Soviet soldiers. Despite difficulties they faced during the war, they still defend their home and push back enemy
@@therebelfrogy9287 Red Army tanks in 1941 also suffered from a lot more downsets other than their at times extremely poor training.
In summer 1941 thousands of Soviet tanks were sent into battle without gun sights, being forced to look down the barrel to aim.
In the first weeks of the war they oftentimes didnd't have any ammo apart from their machineguns and were recorded by the germans attemting suicidal ramming attacks against German artillery and AT guns.
Coordonation with the infantry was extremely poor, and that resulted in tanks being sent in blind only to be blown up by german infantry with mines and grenades.
Red Army tanks didn't have radios in them, German ones did, the Red Army tankers had to wave flags from open hatches to signal other friendly tanks.
Because it took months for the front to stabilise and set up cohesive supply lines, thousands of tanks were left without fuel in the field, their crews were oftentimes either ordered or chose on their own accord to remain with their tanks and keep fighting until destroyed. This sometimes (I don't know how often, I've only read one account) resulted in them being bombed by Soviet planes who didn't know the crews were still in, in order not to let the tanks fall to the germans.
These are just the things that come to mind, there's much more to be said.
Former M1A2 driver here: Can confirm, driver is the best job. It's the only comfortable seat by a long shot, and you get to miss out on some of the work because you have to be in the seat while your crew does refueling or repairs track. However, you'll never feel as small or as vulnerable than you will when driving in combat conditions. To the driver, the enemy is always invisible. They could be any where, in any direction, able to kill you from several klicks out. And all you have to help you navigate that kind of world is a few periscopes.
As I pilot I can relate to the stress of demands like Jens Wehner does driving a tank. First off being aware of the fundamental capabilities of the aircraft, knowing what all the dozens of gauges, radio equipment, and proper engine controls. I probably did not need the muscle that Herr Wehner needed, but there is something called G-forces, as some of the maneuvers did involve increasing and decreasing values of G (trust me, NEVER fly on a full or empty stomach!).
So, I guess my dreams of leisurely driving a Leopard along the autobahn, top down, at top speed have been dashed.
As to gun noise (1:04), my (complete and total) guess is your gun the pressure wave is directed forward at end of your tanks barrel, well away from your tank, so you experience little. But the tank next to you the perpendicularity (from barrel direction) expanding pressure wave hits your tank, thus louder.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Herr Wehner!
What you say about air pressure when the gun is firing is probably true. This is the case with muzzle brakes on rifles, the shooter doesn't notice their rifle being particularly loud with a muzzle brake attached but the people to the left and right of the shooter do, and in some cases, they even feel the air pressure coming from the muzzle brake.
Driving under combat conditions has even more inconvencies like the most dangerous one: constant high noise while working highest awareness due to the poorest view
Its physical and mental exhaustion under highest pressure cause if you turn off the engine you still have to do daily tank services and the bureaucratic stuff like the log of activities, supply demands like missing oil and getting signatures in time
Now I just want to ask Mr Wehner if driving a tank has altered in any way how he drives a car, have any of the principles carried over as it were. Thank you for another very interesting video.
Thank you so much Jens! Your story was such an amazing thing! It was very interesting to know about driving that model of tank. Leo 1 is not the most popular tank, and it makes this information especially significant! I would also like to express my respect to Bernhard. I'm historian from Russia, mostly in WWII topic, and both your "Military History" channels were such a treasure for me. I watch almost every video from the channel. Ich danke ihnen tausendmal!
This guy knows his stuff and Leo1 is absolutely superb!
Please tell Jens Whener his English is astounding to a native speaker
I would love to listen to him speak forever
Very nice narration and insight from a practical standpoint from someone who knows from his personal experience. I was in the US Army Aviation Branch but always wanted to drive a tank. I was in Germany in the 70's and spent two very cold winters in Grafenwoehr on NATO's annual Reforger exercises and was always fascinated by the American and German tanks rumbling across the mock battlefields.
This was really great. Learning from people that actually did what we can just imagine is really interesting. Well done and please keep these interviews coming.
So, he said that it was exhausting to drive the Leopard 1 in the exercises and I fully believe this. Then I thought, how difficult it must have been to drive a tank in the war, when the guys shooting at you really want to kill you? This thought sent a shiver down my spine.
Driving was a pleasure, though a tad tiring in the MT-LB, due to everything being muscle-operated.
To be fair, it was practically a combat taxi at best and a multi-kill for the enemy at worst.
I agree on being blind. The tank commander was of little use buttoned up. Reversing buttoned up is very, quite interesting, especially for outside observers as the tank backs up, weaving between the trees, without anyone observing.
The MT-LB in Finnish service had the heater, just like the brakes, either on or off. There was no in between. In total, we used the inboard heater for the crew only twice during our time in service.
Did you have a waifu picture to remind you of what you were fighting for?
@@Epiclyspeaking Aye, nothing's more important than Azusa Nakano
Thanks for that. Always interesting to hear other veterans stories. One thing about being a veteran - is that we've all got stories ... The only thing missing was the beer. Stories always go better with beer.
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I drove a variety of British tracked fighting vehicles in my time in the army. The hardest, I found, was the FV180 Combat Engineer Tractor. The breaks were savagely sharp. Constantly breaking down and a swine to work on. The Cheiftain AVRE was my favourite. Awesome vid. Thank you
I would be interested in a longer video about how a tank would approach combat. Espacially urban combat tactics for tanks would be interesting. This video was just a small glance into the tactics and i now want more :D
I was a tank driver for 2 years on M60 tanks , my biggest problem was lack of sleep . I never threw track not once because I always did track maintenance. Driving on German roads in traffic was also very challenging.
Thanks to Jens Wehner for this open and honest insights. Very interesting video.
So we can conclude that the next video about the leopard is going to be Jens driving it while you are the commander that screams at him?
Excellent description Jens, thanks.
The military museum in Dresden is a very interesting place, it has some fantastic exhibits. Well worth a trip to it if your in the city.
I don't know how many times I have just passed Dresden, now I have to plan a stop.
Driving under combat conditions has even more inconvencies like the most dangerous one: constant high noise while working highest awareness due to the poorest view and forced to anticipate the terrain cause each ditch, trench lets the tank front dive into but more important expose the soft and weaker underbelly just half a second later when you start getting out of the ditch.
You have to read the terrain, evade obstacles, lower speed while you're observing and anticipating your fellow tanks curses and watch out for enemies while the Commander and Crew or other Tank Commanders are exchanging thoughts till out of a sudden while talking to the General about whatever your commander gives you a new order
that you might mit understand (due to poor visibility) or crosses your anticipation.
Its a complete physical and mental exhaustion under highest pressure like a Sports Pro cause I had been a rower before at international level.
In top: if you turn off the engine you still have to do daily tank maintenance and the bureaucratic stuff like the log of activities, supply demands like missing oil or lubricants you have not in board and getting signatures in time cause if you turn off the engine your commander usually is gone 5 seconds later.
Do not forget that a tank in combat conditions offers nothing like a nowadays car or truck regarding suspension comfort and back in the days of cold war manoevres you had to keep the Tank closed the whole day. Then you feel Like in a tiny submarine, but back then without climate control and heating cause usually the Tank stands still 80% of the day and then you will sweat or freeze ... even in the same day.
And one important point: be aware of the slope on a street. If you see your own Tanks coming be prepared that a Driver can fell asleep like you and can crash into your Tank If the slope on his lane goes to your side cause then this driver has countersteer the slope
What many people know. In countries where you drive right the Tank "straight" steering lets the Tank slowly turn right of the street to avoid counter collisions with the left lane ... If the Driver lost conscience the Tank will slowly turn right of the lane - but not in case your lane has a strong slope towards left lane.
If you ever met a Tank coming steadily and straight to the line you will be terrified if the Tank crosses the middle line cause you have to react instantly going right into the Woods or left onto the others lane. Can end deadly for you in the left If there is a column of Tanks but leaving a street at 40 or 50 km / h into the Woods in the right side can be as deadly.
Finally: as a leading Tank you as a Driver will have a 5 times better view than those behind you that suffer under the dust and dirt of the leading Tanks and the Limited sight cause your sight is limited up to the back of the Tank in front of you.
Finally: I volunteered as Tank Driver cause I did not wanna Walk and Digg trenches into the dirt like infantery battalions ... but at least in our Battalion the Majors attitude was that Tank crews had to proof that they were better than Infanterists ... so I got both of it , Tank Driver and in part time becoming a master of the MG training for a ROMMEL competition ... cause I liked the shooting, but learned to hate to carry the weapon and 2 ammunition boxes and Backpack and also the gas mask bag. Part of the competition had been a fast 5 km march to the shooting range where every second counted. As a Team of 2 with 2 MG fully equipped we had started to train the 5 km to run the whole distance instead of marching. And on the shooting range we had to Fight 3 x 3 targets with 100 rounds in the belt, but each shot less gave points so we shot bullet by bullet and the best we're able to hit all 9 with 9
shots and 91 points minutes after the run ...
German Army has not been a "Zucker schlecken" in the cold war era which means
not a piece of cake
but lot better than Imperial trench warfare of 1915 for sure.
As it happens, I can drive a tank. :)
8 years in a US Army heavy mechanized brigade, including 5 in an Armor Battalion. And yes driving while buttoned-up for a long amount of time can be completely exhausting. Sometimes it can be worse if the hatch is open, like if you are driving in bad weather and don't have anything but your helmet and regular uniform on. All you can do is sit and let the rain pour on you while you drive and the heat can't do much with the hatch open.
I usually wind up being the driver when we use tanks in "Arma 3" (nobody else wants to), and yeah, you can't see ANYTHING. So I guess the vehicle modelers got that right. Next time I will crank the heat in my apartment way up for an even more immersive experience. ^_^
Don´t forget to sleep only total of 3-4 hours in three days before event. ;-)
Jens comment about tank school is correct. They teach you to move the tank and maintain it not how to use it. That comes with experience in your unit.
Wow, that was fascinating. Jens was great. nice t hear a first person perspective of what it's like.
Driving the M1 series tank was a blast. Whenever we were returning to garrison I'd swap positions with the driver so I could drive myself.
"You have a lot of dead angels."
Jesus
Thank you two for making this video.
What an interesting video. I was fortunate and was allowed to drive an M5 decades ago, and only had one input from the guy who was in charge. Never really thought about what I would be like in combat conditions. My memory of that time was mostly "so cool - I am driving a piece of history!"
This really presents a different perspective.
Certainly fatiguing. For us the Dvr is the most junior person in the crew so they also have to do a lot of other jobs and in addition the vehicle needs to be maintained - The Horse, the Saddle, the Man. Track work at 0200 with no light is always "fun". As a Troop Leader and Squadron Commander though its vital to have a good driver, as you are busy commanding your unit and can not spare a lot of time to micro manage the Dvr (Left stick, Right stick, etc.).
Excellent Upload!! Thank you.
Love driving a tank. Buttoned-up, combat driving the loader and gunner can get motion sick. The commander wants the heat on and the breech and turret move all over. Nothing to focus on in the distance to steady your tummy.
The best job on a tank would be the repair crew many kilometres in the rear. 😅
In the tank museum in Sameur in France they have a repair/recovery tank on a panther chassis.
That was very good indeed. In fact, on reflection, I think it was excellent. Good show chaps.
„So, if you have sleeping problems, just get your Leo1 out of the garage for a few hours, and you will sleep like a baby!“
as a tank driver the gunner and loader usually wish they were a tank driver
Love this
Fantastic video. Great job
Driving an M1A1 was only enjoyable in the 'up' position with the hatch open. The way we sat at an angle in the drivers hole usually made me nauseous when buttoned up. Those simulation at Ft Knox was so bad they even had puke bags at the ready. One time in Iraq, the hatch wouldn't close all the way so it rattled endlessly and annoyed the hell outta me.
While training airborne reconnaissance in our unit, we had the helicopter pilots doing a gunnery training ride in a quite hilly area. They also had to struggle with nausea because it was completely unfamiliar for them not to see the surroundings, only the distant targets through the gunners optics while moving.
That was something I'd never thought about. Having a vulnerability to motion sickness ... yeah ... I can see where that would be a problem ... I don't have a problem with it if - I - am the one driving though ... and I've read about pilots having the same reaction. They were fine as long as they were flying the plane but could get queasy if someone else was ...
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For me it was the gunners spot ! I was in all four spots 2nd AD HELL ON WHEELS .
I was hoping he would talk more about teamwork communication stuff, like how the commander orders the driver to do what it needs to be done, as I can imagine this can be quite hard to do, specially under combat conditions. Like for instance do they have some measuring system for turning, reversing, pivoting, etc? Is such information usually classified?
In the US Army only gunnery commands followed a strict format. Generally the crew would get used to how each other operates and what the TC expected of them and the commands given to the driver in whatever manner got the job done. Most of the time we were at the point where we were casual in everything except gunnery and battle drills.
Note: one of the worst offenses a driver could commit is crossing a ditch or a berm without calling out: "BUMP!!!' beforehand.
I think, in a combat scenario, you can definitely se much Matsch!
Well if you think that the escape hach is right beneath the driver feets.. Surely is there most " survivable" job in a tank..
Especially in a Leo 1 or a m48/m60
Interesting comments. I love driving cars, i love long journeys. If I could pick my role in a crew it would be the driver for sure
Driving was fine in the M-60 series, but nothing matched being at the Cadillac's (the nickname in the US Army for the tank gun controls, based on the manufacturer).
Used to be a CV90 driver.
Best job I ever had.
Commander and Gunner can bitch at him as much as they like, but without the driver, the tank is just a glorified, metal pillbox.
War: Tedious monotony of boredom punctuated by intense moments of fear.
Fast & Führious...
more good reasons for the Merkava tank design.
Jens!
Really interesting video. Though I was confused about one bit: Fighting inside the tank about what to shoot at? How is this possible? Does the tank commander not have complete authority over this?
Yes, and no.
A German Tank Crew is a Team. The Commander has his functions and tasks, but is not a dictator.
In more extreme cases, the modern German Soldier is actually encouraged to not follow commands blindly and unquestioning. Because, history.
Sounds messy, but it works, and yes one can get in trouble for disobeying reasonable orders.
@@matt47110815 Thank you for the answer. Yes, I have heard about the orders and the encouragement to not blindly obey them. But I do think that we are not yet far enough that soldiers would debate which enemy is the better choice to shoot at on the basis of whom has fathered fewer children so that the morally correct choice can be made who to shoot. What I'm trying to say is, which enemy to shoot at would be a reasonable order in my eyes, as opposed to being ordered to shoot an ambulance, where a debate would be in order. I hope my thoughts make sense.
If I may borrow insight from WoT (Thank you Quickie-Baby): shoot the one that can kill you, not necessarily the easiest to hit. A tank crossing may be easier to hit, but may not be as dangerous as the one farther back. Like a tank destroyer - thinner armor, better gun. BUT, that is a game, not real life, so I dunno. (How much is two cents worth anyway?)
Yes, now we have handy tips on driving a Leopard 1 tank.
NO MORE EXCUSES.
the best tank to drive in was a leopard 1.
Grtz a former tank driver 😉
Funnily, the Israeli driver my good friend worked with back in 1973 in the IDF thought he had the easiest job on the vehicle because of the following:
1.) Commander has to command and talk with everyone in the tank and out of the tank. Poor guy is basically non-stop multi-tasking and can't mess up any of those tasks without putting everyone at risk. Also, poor guy was prone to getting hurt, maimed, or killed because of the whole head out of the hatch just to see what was going on.
2.) Gunner has to be very good at shooting, learning to range by eye, how to adjust the gun for all the variables, and of course, leading moving targets. Compared to what he as a driver had to learn to be good at his job, gunnery was like aerospace engineering to him.
3.) Loader had to be strong as an ox and fast as a gazelle while loading huge shells in very cramped tanks. Also bit miserable when the turret moved around so much because half the tanks Israel had did not have nice turret baskets and ready-racks to make it easy for the loader. Loader also was always the junior man, so he got to do all the dirty jobs first, only helped when the commander felt it necessary.
4.) Driver only had to focus on following directions from the commander and doing so as smoothly as the machine would let him as a kindness to the rest of the crew who were getting bounced around enough as it was. Oh and it being the Sinai, he did have to keep a somewhat close eye on all the temperate gauges just in case.
Every time i hear the video ending i feel like some rock music is gonna play but it doesn't.
Wott äi wanderpfull äkzönt auer tschömän länkwitsch mehks.
Ihr seid cool.
Weitermachen!
& schöne Grüße: 😁
Overall though driving a tank is alot of fun
I like German Bubbles
German commanders... hm screaming is not the best team building
You forget the cultural differences. In us 1000km a day isn't crazy.
Good blocking, standing in the hatch was inspired 👍
He is off centred a bit but I think it’s okay. How would it look it he was in the TC’s hatch?
It would look like he was not in the driver’s hatch which is what it he video is about.
Nope. TC is by far the best, and most fun position. Driving is fun, but TC is the job to have.
So driver is boring af, tiring af, and blind af.
M1A3 drivers fall asleep alot. The seat is in a reclining position so it's very easy, espeically if you're toasty and warm.