John Deere 830 Industrial - Big Problems
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- Encountered a couple of big issues while working on my John Deere 830-Industrial. First, I think the starting motor clutch is smoked, so I'll need to fix that. Second, the front bearing on the RH side is permanently installed. #johndeere #tractor #farming #diesel #mechanic #usa #restoration
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I wish I lived near you, wherever that is. I have had experience working with trailer axles for many years and have had trailers come in with torn up bearings especially on farm equipment such as discs and plows that have had the spindle nut welded on. Just carefully cut the nut off with a straight torch without damaging the spindle, then grind it down and pull the hub off, clean it up with the grinder and use a thread chaser on it. Worst case scenario you might need to re-thread it to the next smaller size. Easy stuff!
Excellent tip! As an old farmer, I've ran into my share of things welded on like axle nuts once the spindle threads are worn. Some farmers choose to do this as a way to keep the machine going, and making money short term. Sometimes they get a deal on new equipment, and the old one just gets parked. But as you said, in his case it's definitely best to torch off the nut and re-thread the axle if need be.
I like your attitude! 👍🏻😎
There won't be any threads left to chase since it has been welded on with exposed threads destroyed by weld. I guess you are talking about the threads left under the nut. I've had to cut bearings off of shafts with a torch out in the field, not in the shop as much but..... Done lots of work with a grinder too and i realize that it isn't impossible, but it is more involved than what you make it sound. Thread chasing and re-threading are two different things as you probably know. Trying to re-thread from the outside in, presents a problem of likely cross threading when you get to the threads that are left. I guess if a person had the two-piece adjustable type of die that you could start at the threaded part and work your way backwards should work ok but if he already has a tap and die set that aren't like that, it already poses a big expense to buy those. BUT ALL EASIER SAID THAN DONE BECAUSE you are also dealing with having the correct OD before trying to rethread it in the first place. That's why, in my opinion, a machinist is the better option.
I have one of the very first 830’s .. your tractor is very rare! I bought mine in Alberta Canada about 21 years ago..
My 830-I is SN 8302443 and was shipped to Logan Utah on March 24th 1959. I've spoken with some historical JD experts and they told me that Deere built 127 830-I tractors total. 45 were point start (like mine) and 82 were E-start. Of the 45 830-Industrials that were built with a pony motor, they have only been able to locate 15 others that are still in existence. So I'm glad I was able to pull this one from a field (where it sat for at least 20 years) and give it another chance at life.
We have a friend who has SN 8300014, so I am pretty sure it's one of the early ones too. Not sure if it's a 1959 or if the really early ones were 1958.
It's nice to see the 830I out in the sun again. Especially since I've been working on my 830 Rice Special recently.
😎👍🏻
Unfortunately the joys of working on old tractors!! But your engine sounds great!!!
You're absolutely right!
Motor Wheel was a wheel manufacturer in Lansing Michigan. They made primarily automotive wheels. One of their most wheels was the Magnum 500 which was a popular option on late 60's and early 70's muscle cars. They went out of business in the 70's.
Thanks for the info! Nice to know a little more history about the tractor!
Deere use to sell the discs, 4 rivets and your all set. since your pulling the transmission, do the seals and brake pad.
I've looked around and I've seen clutches already riveted to the disk. But I haven't thought about just buying the disks on their own and doing the rivet install myself.
Man, sorry you're running into issues with that goregous old IND 830. As a huge plus, that big old 2cyl still runs like new. Glad to see you keep pushing to get her going and working again like she used to.
It'd be nice to just be able to go on it and go... But this is why I got the tractor for a good price. I knew there would be issues. I'm just grateful the big diesel runs as good as it does.
Well we had 720D 730D over the years,we currently have a R and 720D,we found out it's just easier to pull the pony motor,put on the bench an fix an anything else that may need replaced,
I think that's exactly what I'm going to try to do next week
the front axle spindle shaft can be fixed at a machine shop. ive had one like it . they spray welded the shaft and cut new threads on it and a newhole for the cotter pin.
A few other commenters have said similar. It's good to know it's fairly common
Excellent video Jonelstar :) also yes that Yellow John Deere tractor in good besides Pony Motor clutch problem and front left & right side axles keep grease high temperature of Tractor & Truck Moly type ! My dad used that type grease for years and myself to love how good does for protection on vechiles even Lol brake parts plus Emergency Cable wire !
Great info!
@@jonelsonster welcome
I think you made the right decision on the front axle.
Thanks!
Excellent video the John Deere 830 sounds really good. The pony motor is not that hard to remove it has to come off to remove the clutch and transmission set up. Drain the diesel engine coolant and take the water and exhaust pipe off on top and the lower water pipe ahead of the belt pulley and a few wires and throttle linkage and gas line and it lifts straight up pretty much it weighs around 200 pounds or so. Keep in mind the clutch works opposite of a typical clutch the disk is floating when it is running until you force it between the flywheel and pressure plate to make it spin the diesel engine over. I did a John Deere 70 diesel tractor last year for a customer I rebuilt the pony motor and clutch and part of the transmission. It sure runs nice. As far as the hub and spindle that is like a semi or 2 ton you take out the king pin and the spindle can be chucked in a lathe and the nut turned off and a little welding and turning and then re thread the spindle and it good to go again. The wheel rim is like a Chevrolet 2 ton with 6 hole budd wheels the neighbor had a truck years ago with the same rims probably a 8.25x20 tire too.
Very good info! Thanks! I have a spare pony motor and transmission from a 720, so the transmission is a little different. But when I was messing around with it I realized the clutch is opposite a typical clutch, just like you said. It took me a minute to figure out why, but then it makes sense.
@@jonelsonster yes it only needs to pull when you are trying to turn over the diesel engine
On the Tube a group of diesel engine groups were showing off starter systems that were spring loaded and you had to wind it up and hit release lever and cranks any size diesel motors it's installed on..
Old aircraft engines used inertia starters or compressed air to kick the engines over until they fired off. Sounds similar to that. I've also seen old European tractors on RUclips that start with a shotgun blank. Lots of ingenious ways to get these old things awake
@@jonelsonster My Dad went to look at one of those that were started with a shotgun blank here in Canada. That would have been the early 1960's or very late '50's when he was looking for a tractor. I am not sure the make, if it was a Field Marshall or what? He didn't buy it though. I have seen videos of pilots starting old aircraft engines with inertia starters.
Since it's the industrial version you could think multiple operator's and poor maintenance, which would explain that oil bath air cleaner being full of crud. Some guys look after the machines they operate, and some couldn't care less about greasing etc. It makes one wonder what happened to that spindle, an operator hit something breaking the cap off but how they could screw up the threads to the point of having to weld it on? But i agree, a machine shop should be able to put it in the lathe and get that nut off. Whether it would require welding or spray welding which was often done where i worked to build up damaged shafts etc., then rethread? Depends on what the machinist sees once he gets the nut off. I don't think you had a lot of play there although hard to tell in the video. Tractor runs nice though and i hope you get the pony motor drive sorted out.
Thanks for your words of encouragement!
Any time we get anything it's a gamble at best. Always something to fix or improve and most of the time, both. I don't think you have enough slack in those wheel bearings to worry about. Plenty of grease and a fitting to pump in more if needed and you need just a dab of slack so everything will be lubed and turn without binding. And I have more faith in an oil bath air cleaner than any paper job that's ever been made. Companies just can't charge you 9 prices for a paper element over a little oil and some gas to clean the can up with. You'll get the starter fixed and a pull keeps everybody honest. BLESSINGS to ALL Yall! Good to see Pop out too! Watch out for that goofy girl! And a maching shop can get that nut off that spindle and clean the threads up.
Yes, in fortunate I was able to get it for a good price. This way I didn't spend all the "project funds" on the initial purchase. I have more left to cover repairs as they come up.
@@jonelsonster Always, always! Blessings!
They lost the cotter pin and didn’t want to use the Tobacco Road fix of putting a nail through the axle nut!!
Maybe that's why they welded it... Because the first attempt to fix it with a nail failed 😅
Maybe you can get the spindle rebuilt, or cut off, and a new one welded on. They do that to truck and trailers all the time. Possibly a junked tractor somewhere that you could get parts off. Good Luck. 😊
It's good to know I'm not the first person facing a messed up axle on a front knuckle. Hopefully it doesn't get to the point where I would have to replace the whole axle... But if it ever does, it's nice to know there are options.
Good video! Your ToDo list will never be complete when you have antique tractors. I just noticed in this video that the 830 does not have power steering...that must be a workout maneuvering around the farm!
Oh, it has power steering... And if works great until all the fluid leaks out of the bottom of the pump. Fixing those seals is just another thing on the to do list. 😅
Love every episode with the 830I! The pony transmission can technically be removed without removing the engine but honestly I don't think it will save any more work, it might actually make more. I know the pony rests on a dowel pin or two and I think the transmission does too, so you can't just slide it out. You'd have to lift the pony/transmission assembly to get the transmission off, and at that point just take it all off and make it easier. On your front spindle, I also think it'd last your lifetime plus, as it is. Your machine shop option is a good one. I do believe if you wanted to look around for one, you might get a replacement off an 840, it used the same thing, and there were more made. On swapping for an ag spindle, I've never compared, but they both use the same kingpins and bushings, so I believe it would be a straight swap, though your industrial front hub and wheel likely wouldn't fit
Thank you for the advise. I think I'm going to do as you suggest and just pull the whole thing. And I'm going to pull the power steering pump while I'm at it because there isn't much clearance between it and the pony. I might as well get it all done right.
@@jonelsonster Just so you're aware, that's the PS steering cylinder, and the pump is in front, at the end of the shaft from the engine. The pony can be pulled with the cylinder in place without much of an issue, but your choice on how much to dig
@@weirddeere yes, you're right. The pump is driven off the shaft that comes out the front of the engine that also runs the fan and water pump. I only need the valve body/cylinder. 👍🏻
@@jonelsonster When I pulled my cylinder off, I decided to do the pump as well, just so I knew I wouldn't have to drain and refill the system again, maybe even actually be DONE with the PS. Just throwing it out there. Mission creep is real. Started with replacing a radiator cap and rebuilt the whole tractor type of situation
I would Suggest Purchasing a Muffler for it but That is your Opinion
Yes, a muffler is a must. I want to find a nice stainless steel (not chrome plated) muffler for it. Or, if I can't find that then a heavy gauge carbon steel muffler painted black.
The worry with the welded front spindle is that the metal has been crystallized and may be brittle enough to fail in operation. Hopefully the welding of the castellated nut was done in stages, not allowing the spindle end to get too hot.
I thought of that. But the weld is out at the end of the axle where less load is applied. So I am counting on that too help me out. And I don't think the axle is a high strength steel that's been heat treated anyway, unless the weld was quenched, it should retain it's ductility.
Weld has been there longer than you have been upright...
@@ShainAndrews ha ha! You're probably right! 👍🏻
I wouldn't worry much about the welded on nut. No more than you are going to use it......should be fine. You can always get a little more grease in there by using a needle adapter on your grease gun. Any other fix is going to cost a lot of $$$.
That is what I'm thinking. I think I'll keep my eye on it and if it seems to be getting worse, then I'll dig into it. Otherwise, it's probably ok.
Never had many problems with the trans on my 80. Now on one of my 70D's that is a different story. I was able to free up the trans brake by spraying it down well with brake cleaner and exercising with the engagement lever. I always exercise the lever 3 or 4 times prior to starting on all my pony start tractors as they all set for extended periods between starts. Sorry to hear you are having difficulties.
Hopefully it can all be sorted out without too many more problems
Looks like the Oliver needs to go so you have more room for the real tractors! 🤣🤣🤣 hope you can get that clutch issue fixed on the pony motor!
Ha! Yes, that Oliver was recently in the shop taking up space. I got it running good enough to move it into the back shed... But it's still in the way 😅 that video will drop in a few weeks.
I would bet a good machine shop could repair your front spindle
That's what I'm thinking.
Axle surgeon here in Ohio could respindle that knuckle. I’ve seen it done and holds like new
Very good to know! I may end up needing someone like that. Do you have more info other than axle surgeon in Ohio?
I think you should fix the grill screens, there is a tool you can buy to make it better.
All in good time.
There is a grease zerk on the cap....
Yes, and there is a large plug on the back where I can verify I've pumped the bearing housing fill of grease. It's handy to have the plug so I know it's full
the clutch plate is most likely about gone and a bearing also needs 2 be replaced the front hubs need 2 be fixed U could some flat thin flat washers 2 take the space up I would try it anyway and also it would be a good idea 💡 😊 2 check the front wheel bearings and races replace if no good 😊😊 OMG 6 2O 2O24
I've thought about shims. But the more I think about it I suspect the gap been the face of the bearing and the axle nut is less than a couple thousands... So trying to slide a U shaped shim that's that thin in there without it bending up is going to be challenging.
Try YesterYears tractor. They may have it.
They might have one for an ag version. ButI would be very surprised if there was one for an industrial 830 like this. There were only about 150 industrial 830s made. And then a few more 840s that also used the same knuckle. But you're right, a swap for an undamaged knuckle would be the easiest replacement.
A good machinist can fix it back 1971 much the same thing happened to my dads friend he had brought one of them 830 ind he lost his wheel on the road he pulled the hole front off took it to this fellow and fix it like new dont let it go to long becuase it will eat the back side check jd members tractor club in Saskatchewan there were lots of them in Regina and Manitoba junked
Maybe this is the same tractor! 😅
You have depressed me, today. Lighten up a little. you have so much to be happy about. I am 80 and I an circling the drain.
😅 ha ha, hopefully I'm not that depressing! 👍🏻
Not sure why you would be depressed over his problems or why he needs to lighten up. I am sure you had things happen back in the day. My Dad lived to a 100 and was always easy going. He was a farmer too and nothing much ruffled him no matter what happened. I can't say i inherited his calmness when things go wrong. He lived on his own in his own house and cooked for himself almost right to the end.
Purchase a I&T Shop Manual or Find a Shop Mechanic to Assist You Brother ❤️
Luckily I've got a service manual for it. I would not be able to work on this without it just because it is so different than the ol As and Bs I'm must familiar with.
Nice vid. Fun to see the ol’ 830 industrial get some much needed TLC.
Your mini excavator would be handy when I pull the pony motor. You should bring it with you when you visit in a few weeks.
Grind that nut off, weld and build it back up, then get a tap and die and rethread it
I'm going to keep my eye on it and if the wheel/bearing starts to feel more sloppy, then that's what I'll have to do.
What you have there is a straight up farmer fix just weld it so we can finish farming hahaha it can be fixed though it will require some machining don't sweat it for now but you will want to keep it original
Yeah, I want to keep it original. Those front wheels are my favorite thing about the tractor. I'll need to keep my eye on the bearing to make sure the amount of free play isn't growing.
When you encounter a major issue it does make me feel better to be able to fix other things while waiting for parts for something else. I bet this will be great in the parade. Why people weld axle nuts are beyond me. Just saying.
I'm reality finding and fixing things is part of the hobby. I enjoy tinkering. I enjoy thinking about how I'm going to fix it. I enjoy working on it in the shop. I enjoy trying to learn and do things myself. But I do need to see progress to stay motivated. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Find a good welder and get them to fix it, it’s fixable if you find an experienced guy
That's what I'm thinking.
My old friend back was jd man he fixed all ate tractors leaned lots from him but we all get old hes gone now or id give his number to him
👍🏻
Id say 300 to machine it
I'll happily pay $300 to get it repaired... My worry is that it will be a lot more.
Crazy farmer fixes. Sometimes they just don't give a shit!!!! Hate to see that.
It's not the way I would have fixed it... But I guess it is effective. I just hope it doesn't cause me problems in the future.
@derweibhai It wasn't a farmer fix, it was an industrial fix, which is why the tractor isn't JD green. I detect someone who doesn't like farmers. Maybe you should wise up to where your food comes from!!!