Love your videos ever since I found them about a year ago. Would you ever be open including in a video why the Nazi Party apparently stands for the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”, but they are considered to have been extreme-right and fascist in nature? I’ve always been confused as to why Socialist was in there name and I’m probably not the only one. Hopefully I didn’t just miss that it’s been covered in one of your videos already. Cheers. Great video so far as always 👌👌
when you talked about so few people giving up the chance of power I thought of giving the background of Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus the true chad hobbit of the world. 1.Chill farmer relaxing on his farm, when invader's threaten the nation 2. takes full control of the entire empire and leads the army to war. 3. utterly crushes the enemy to the point where he is now redundant. 4. *smokes blunt* says I'm go grow some wheat and gives up unlimited power. 5. goes back to the farm grows some wheat and is remembered as a mythical hero and one of the greatest emperor's of all time. Only ruled for 16 days.
Nerdism is like religions. Some are polytheistic praying to all sort of nerdy gods being superheroes, star wars, fantasy, sci-fi etc. But some nerds only believe in one god.
My step-father was a prominent Welsh politician and had no interest whatever in anything Fantasy or Sci-fi. But when I played Fellowship of the Ring in front of him, he was captivated. He kept telling me what the Elves were saying and claimed almost all of it was Welsh. LotR is by far the greatest story created by men of the West. It is our myth. And for me there were no Hobbit movies or that God-awful series. Just Peter Jackson's original 3 movies and the books that inspired them.
One thing I like about Jackson's movies is that he made changes, not that I thought the fellowship needed changes. But I don't see the point of an adaptation if you don't apply your own vision. I wouldn't have ever thought of those changes, and I don't think they seriously elevated the story, but they made the movies different enough to have their own merit. Needless to say, the hobbit movies and Amazon tv show are meritless in comparison, changes and all!
Your Step-Father was not wrong, Tolkien designed 2 Elvish languages, one based on Finnish and another based on Welsh... LOTR is one of the best books ever written, it is so deep each time I read it I find something new.
@@tobyhall8048 Honestly the hobbit movies were at least trying to be respectful, but the amazon series is just retarded. The fantasy genre is about the nobility and honor of our past. It's about seeing the world when it was still new and man/woman had so much to conquer. The wilderness is a real danger and technology allows only a bow or a sword to fight the demons of the forest. This danger and pre-modern setting allows our hero to both exist on the edge of a blade and also shape the world in a way modern man will never grasp. The idea a man can rally a company of fellow men to travel across the land and face the demons of the unknown filled with magic and fraught with danger only to ultimately succeed or die trying for a noble cause is a timeless narrative and message that inspires hope. Modern man find's comfort in the idea of such heroes and they inspire him to face the danger's of his own life no matter how petty or insignificant they comparably are. This is why the woke crowd will never have a successful fantasy story. Their tether has been broken they are at complete odds with the past because their combination of neurosis, superiority, and arrogance leads them to despise their forefathers and the traditions of their people. To them only the future exist and the past and all it's deeds are ignorance and oppression. just as modern man stands above and in dominion of all it see's and observes and lives in a perpetual state of safety and comfort, so do the heroes of a woke fantasy story. Someone who has been told what to think and marched towards a moral orthodoxy has no qualms about right or wrong and battles no demons so convinced of their own superior quality and disposition. Look at the hero of the new series Arrogant, all powerful, no growth, no change required, argumentative and self assured she is the modern man/woman. Their is no chance at failure and no self reflection. Their is no ring that tempts a hero to evil. The character doesn't need moral or mental fortitude because they have the power born in their limbs from the age of childhood. Borne of the ability to shape the world and tame the forest. They are not held in bondage to the traditions or customs of their people like for example the original Mulan or Éowyn . The new lead character Galadriel in lord of the ring's laughs at tradition or customs and openly defies them to no punishment openly mocking/insulting kings and queens alike. she risk's nothing in defiance. Take Mulan or Éowyn for example who overcome the perception's of society and through the process of overcoming these societal expectations become true hero's themselves. Ironically being two of the greatest mythical feminist characters of all time.
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” This is by far one of the greatest Quotes ever said imo
In your PTSD topic, you neglected to mention Sam. Sam had the same pain as Frodo and Bilbo, as he was a ringbearer as well. The difference is that Sam believed in beauty, and no desire for power that the ring could use against him. While others were tempted with grandeur, the best it could do against Sam was show him an image of a beautiful garden world, which is dismissed by Sam as one person cannot possible manage a garden of that size. He lived a full life in Hobbiton after the war, mayor of the Shire for nearly fifty years, and had 13 children, and used all that remained of the magic in the world (the Mallorn nut and the small amount of soil) to beautify the Shire after Saruman razed it. Sam is incredibly strong of will, and his view of the world incredibly strong and stable, even in the face of experiencing evil. In spite of all that, once his wife Rosie dies (at age 98, Sam being 102), he still feels the weight of the ring, and needs the same divine healing Frodo and Bilbo received when they sailed West. He was a hero in the war, and remained a pillar of the community at home, in spite of his friends and family not truly knowing the horrors he experienced. Frodo left the world behind. Sam stayed, doing good until he could no longer.
Which Middle Earth character would be worthy of lifting Mjolnir? A question posed in Quora by Cesar Alcaraz A splendid answer, written in proper Samwise Gamgee prose, was provided in Quora by Ben Skirvan : "The oddest thing, Master Frodo. I was wanting a hammer what with the old fence… that being the one along Bagshot Lane… in need of mending. Out of the sky comes this great Dwarven mallet like from Bilbo's stories. Flew right into my hand it did. Like as it belonged there. Light as a feather, it was, too. Lighter even. One of the big folks. Great strapping fellow with golden hair. He shows up very polite like. Says it's his hammer, but if the hammer don't mind me using it, well, then he don't either. Can’t say as what he meant by that, but he behaved right proper and decent. Even helped with the mending, if you can imagine that." - Not one person in the history of Middle Earth is worthier than this humble gardner from Bagshot Row. Master Samwise Gamgee. More than a mere prince among Hobbits.
@@jonrolfson1686 Sam is such a well written and simply good character. I never fail to smile when Sam in mentioned in the books. Brings me back to a certain child-like whimsicalness I often wish I could recapture in my life.
As an English person I really like the idea of the Lord of the Rings being our heroic tale. It really shows that this sort of thing is not just exclusive to the perceived "out-of-reach" past, but can be written in the modern day.
Tolkien said one of his drives to write the work was to give his homeland an ancient mythic origin story he lamented they lacked. All they had recorded was lots of history
"The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." - J.R.R. "The GOAT" Tolkien
Even a Torie, an Anglo-Saxon conservative, has no idea of Catholic universalism. " But the greatest and most influential reactionary of the 20th century was Tolkien, not Kennan." (Niall Ferguson)
@@frekitheravenous516 Not true at all, there are plenty of Christian motifs. Here are a few examples that Tolkein himself alluded to being Christian inspired: Morgoth and Sauron (like Satan) can not create, only corrupt. Sauron is also like Satan in that they are both fallen angels. Eru intervenes in Arda both directly and indirectly. Directly as he sinks Numenor, indirectly as he allows Biblo to find the ring and makes Gollum trip and fall into MT Doom. The entire story takes place in "ages" which is a Catholic motif. According to Catholicism, Christ was born in the sixth age of earth. The entirety of the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" in which Finrod accepts the idea of Eru himself one day coming to earth to cleanse it of evil (Jesus Christ)
One really cool thing is that Tolkien fundamentally rejected the idea of a Paragon, or the idea that people can be perfect and incorruptible, and demonstrated this by making Frodo fail in his mission and give in to the ring's power. Instead, Tolkien posits that real positive change happens in the small acts of mercy and kindness that we choose to show each other every day, and indeed, in the Lord of the Rings, Bilbo's act of mercy in sparing Gollum's life followed by Frodo's act of mercy in sparing him ultimately is what enabled the destruction of the ring - because Gollum was the one who (inadvertently) ended up destroying it, and not Frodo.
The scene if the first film where Frodo says "It is a pity that Bilbo didnt kill him when he had the chance" & Gandalf goes on to say "Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many who live deserve death, & some who die deserve life. Can you to give it to them, Frodo? Dont be so eager to deal out death & judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." It actually changed my perspective of capital punishment.
An obvious symbolic correlation of the ring that you skipped is how you can relate it to the chtistian conception of sin. When Frodo puts the ring in he is immediately sent to the wraith realm, where all the men who succumbed to the ring's influence end up living forever. The ring is known to realize the greatest tendencies of the characters, hence why Bilbo, Frodo and Smeagol all disappear when putting in the ring because it's in their nature as hobbits to desire to "disappear". And yet, despite believing they can control the ring, the ring serves only one master. So the ring isn't just about power, but it correlates power, sin, death and becoming Sauron's slave (like the Nazgul became).
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower In the first chapters when Gandalf is describing the ring to Frodo and explaining Smeagol's story, he explains the ring made Smeagol disappear because he was initially ashamed of murdering his friend, and he knew the people of the village would ask questions. So, according to the tendencies of Hobbits, his greatest weakness is cowardice and a desire to disappear, Smeagol did that and basically became a thief for a while using his new "gift". The ring just gives you an illusion of control over it but the book is clear it serves no one other than Sauron.
@@RedactedBrainwaves I thought it was implied that the One Ring also made Isildur invisible---he didn't wear it normally, but did put it on to try to take it away from the Gladden Fields and became visible again when he lost it in the river.
The wonderful part of this book is the vocabulary. The beautiful English words that have fallen into disuse, or minimal use. I learned to really appreciate English based on this book.
Orcs aren’t actually people with free will, they are basically animals that are “possessed” by Morgoth/Sauron, filled with their hatred, evil, rebellion against god, and desire to dominate. The Eagles are just animals too, but they’re possessed of Manwë’s goodness.
@@gamerpigeon4513 You can respect something whilst acknowledging that you’d never want to live that way and understanding it’s seeking to displace you. For example, I can respect Stalin or Mao, even though I vehemently disagree with communism. I can respect that they both accomplished a great deal, even if largely harmful.
@@ConnortheCanaanite I watched the video and I admit I probably commented too quickly. Still, I personally would not mind living in whatever way comes in the future but I will admit that not everyone wants/thinks like that. Everyone just has a different opinion I guess.
Side note Jackson's trilogy is literally the best possible interpretation we could have ever gotten of the books. It came at the perfect time. Any earlier and it wouldn't have been given the appropriate reverence (see Bakshi's LOTR) and any later it would have become some woke nonsense peddled by some greedy corporation trying to maximize profits like The Hobbit (which wasn't the former all that much but definitely was the latter) or Rings of Power.
I’d love a breakdown like this for Star Wars. I know the franchise has its problems, but George Lucas’ original vision (episodes 1-6) is honestly America’s epic. There are so many profound political and religious themes that I can’t help but feel you’d be the perfect person to cover them.
Tbh Lucas does not get enough credit for the prequels. Sure some people don't like the narrative or find it boring, but the trilogy is a love letter to film. Every choice and every scene is deliberately thought out to capture moments and vibes from classic cinema. Tldr if anything the prequels would make a great video on American mythos due to its connection to film and Hollywood
@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 The Prequels have gotten a decent following more recently but yeah they definitely deserve their spot next to the originals
I know the bad evil empire thing has been way overdone since star wars, but we really did take down a genuinely evil empire hellbent on destroying everything in its way. Sometimes it really is just that obvious to see who is good and evil.
@assortment of pills, but never blue pill some would say he gets to much credit. But Star wars potential as an American mythology is pretty spot on. To bad they try to mine it for money instead of love.
I was thinking the exact same thing towards the end of this video. Star Wars (and maybe Marvel and DC heroes) are the only stories that even remotely come close to the level of mythology for our society, although you can argue that Star Wars and the comic heroes are more American than western in general, although they traditionally do adhere to thos broader western values in LOTR when handled properly. (which goes to show how terrible both have become now in recent years). It's frankly why the corruption of LOTR, Star Wars, Marvel, and DC represent the largest and loudest backlash against the woke bastardization of our cultural mythology more than basically anything else they've tried to subvert. It's because it's an attack on our mythical foundations. The only aspect of American mythology that hasn't been thoroughly attacked yet is the cowboy western, although I think we're starting to see it now that westerns are slowly coming back (I think we can point to both good and subversive representations of the western).
A review of The Lord of the Ring in a Czechoslovak newspaper in 1977. To give some context, the Czech Republic was then part of the Eastern Bloc. It was ruled by the Communist Party. In 1977, a review of The Lord of the Rings was published in "our" newspaper "Rudé právo" (can be translated as "Red Law"). For interest, I am attaching its translation, and in the next commentary the Czech original. I am not a translator, so please excuse any errors. -------------- Red Law, 1977 - Review of The Lord of the Rings This is another attack on the socialist establishment. The evil empire, from which ashes and smoke billow, is transparently placed in the East, the image of the working class, united in the sweat of its face to build heavy industry, is to be the vile and evil Orcs. Of course, the son of a bourgeois family cannot see anything beautiful and uplifting about hard work. In contrast, the inhabitants of the west - the lands flowing with milk and cinders - the elves (or aristocracy), the humans (the bourgeoisie) and the hobbits (the landlords) live in affluence (with no explanation as to where they get it from), and the only thing that worries them is the "threat" from the east. The "forces of good" here are a collection of representatives of these reactionary circles whose hands have never touched a proper job. Their leader is Gandalf, the propagator of a backward ideology, with whose help he keeps the population ignorant and fearful of progress. (...) No wonder then that Saruman, the defender of the oppressed and friend of progress, is declared a traitor, and his mansion is destroyed by a band of fanatical reactionaries. Then, when he spreads socialism in the Shire, he is caught and punished without trial by the hobbits, supported and paid for by the capitalist power Gondor. (...)
The original text I found on the internet is attached below. It is slightly abridged - I could not find the complete version. ------------------------ Rudé právo, 1977 - Recenze Pána prstenů: Jde o další útok proti socialistickému zřízení. Říše zla, z níž se valí popel a dým, je průhledně umístěna na východě, obrazem dělnické třídy, která jednotná v potu tváře buduje těžký průmysl, mají být odporní a zlí skřeti. Samozřejmě, že synáček z buržoazní rodiny nemůže vidět na těžké práci nic krásného a povznášejícího. Obyvatelé západu - zemí oplývajících mlékem a strdím - elfové (neboli aristokracie), lidé (buržoazie) a hobiti (statkáři) žijí naopak v blahobytu (aniž je vysvětleno, odkud jej získávají, a jediné, co je trápí, je „hrozba“ z východu. „Síly dobra“ zde představuje sbírka představitelů těchto reakčních kruhů, jejichž ruce se nikdy nedotkly pořádné práce. Jejich vůdcem je Gandalf, šiřitel zpátečnické ideologie, s jejíž pomocí udržuje obyvatelstvo v nevědomosti a strachu před pokrokem. (…) Není pak divu, že Saruman, zastánce utlačovaných a přítel pokroku, je prohlášen za zrádce, a jeho sídlo je zničeno bojůvkou fanatických zpátečníků. Když pak šíří socialismus v Kraji, je chycen a bez soudu potrestán hobity, podporovanými a placenými kapitalistickou mocností Gondorem. (…)
The interesting thing about LOTR for me is that almost every fantasy setting comes from it. This man single handedly created a point through which a big part of our culture is expressed
@@WhatifAltHist STAR_SHIP_TROOPERS. We want an autistic breakdown of the revolt of the scientists/the Federations policy of earned enfranchisement ... and to know more (obviously).
Please do one of these on the Dune books, they are also heavily influenced by Jungian thought and are perhaps the best pieces of science fiction writing of all time. What LOTR is to fantasy, Dune is to Sci Fi
Fun fact, apparently Tolkien hated Dune when he read it. He was never really into Sci Fi stuff to begin with but Dune has this unique focus on political and ecological stuff compared to LOTR's anthropological and mythological.
@@archdukeofsuno2954 Tolkien didn’t say he “hated” Dune. He said “It is impossible for an author still writing to be fair to another author working along the same lines. At least I find it so. In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment.”
8:27 Eowyn's defeat of the witch-king has a much more modern inspiration, Macbeth. When J.R.R. Tolkien had to do Shakespeare in high school, he did not like many of the "prophecies" in Macbeth. The most prominent of these was the technicality of being born by C-section that allowed Macduff to kill Macbeth and bypass his "can't be killed a man born from a woman" protection. He though that was crap and asked the obvious of wouldn't it make sense if it was a woman had killed him instead. He mixed in a little bit of Shield maidens/ Valkyries and boom.
Yes, I immediately remembered Shakespeare's MacBeth motive when seeing Eowyn killing the Witch King (I also must have read it in the book but this was long ago).
I read LOTR 32 times while sitting in high school (1974 - 77). It probably saved my life by giving me real values to cling to while being suicidal. I agree with Rupert Sheldrakes theory of Morphic resonance which does much to explain the hidden connections such a archetypes and shared behaviors where time and distance say such is impossible. Life creates "habits" which resonate somehow through time and space sharing information to those of similar form or activity. I believe it is the great missing piece to the puzzle of existence. I agree with your analysis of Tolkien. I suspect he saw firsthand addiction through the thousands of wounded vets and the damage done psychologically to these men. LOTR is a summation myth of many of the best Western stories while rising above them all as an original work.
When I was a child, I always wanted to skip the scenes with Frodo and Sam because they were not as exciting as what the other characters were up to, until Mt. Doom and then I was captivated. However, now as an adult, it's the scenes of Frodo and Sam trudging in Mordor that stick with me the most and have been a balm when I was suffering, an encouragement to keep going even when the goal isn't in sight.
@@DiMacky24 The worth of friendship is critical to the story and no one portrays this devotion more than Sam. When Frodo turns on him after Gollum lies saying Sam ate all their food it becomes all the more tragic and heart-wrenching. No line speaks deeper to me than near the end after the ring is disposed and it looks like certain death when Frodo says something to the effect of "i'm so glad to be with you Sam, here at the end of all things".
Interesting demonic chemistry: ▪︎Satan - saturated, only single bonds ▪︎Saten - having a double bond ▪︎Satin - having a triple bond. 😎 But yes, of course, Melkor is the best match to Satan.
Sauron is shown as a giant Eye on top of a tower only in the movies. Tolkien never describes him like this. When Tolkien mantions the Eye of sauron, its Just that, his eyes. But yes Sauron has a palantir, so he can see quite a lot of things
The Eye of Sauron is also his crest, and symbolizes Sauron’s “psychic abilities”, for lack of a better term. I can understand why the film adaptation changed it though. A guy looking out a window wouldn’t be as impressive. Sauron is of course a literal demon, though.
And buddy claims the eye of Sauron is a vagina and the tower is a penis according…. WhatIfs videos are entertaining but so cringe sometimes. Hard to take him seriously
I would argue that King Arthur has become the mythical tale of Great Britain despite it’s Celtic origins. The majority of Briton’s are inspired by the Arthurian mythos and it has since involved to encapsulate not just the spirit of the Celtic inhabitants, but the entirety of the isles as well.
King Arthur was very real, and there was no such thing as celtic in the british isles. They were britons, check out wilson and blacketts work. Or britainshiddenhistory, they spent their life trying to show the supressed history. Welsh kids were taught about Arthur in history lessons until the 1920s
I'd recommend looking into some of Tolkien's personal writings about his works, because he himself is fairly frank about what inspirations were overtly intended to communicate a similar meaning to it's source point (like much of the usage of Finnish) versus things like The Ring where he was supposedly quoted as saying something like "Both stories focus on a ring, and there their similarities end". He was even more explicit about separating any outright comparisons to Christianity not because it didn't inform some of what he was writing but more in that is wasn't meant to be a regurgitation of Christian symbolism or ideas.
Tolkien loved history, but not the history of textbooks. He read droves of accounts from world travelers and became intrigued by the notion of hollow (middle) Earth, and it's... fascinating, to see how many of his takes on hobbits and elves and giants are kind of familiar to a conspiracy theorist. Not to mention how recent discoveries of ancient species similar to humans like Denisovans and Homo Florensis resemble those in his work
I have always been drawn to the literature of the Victorian age- whether travelogs, fantasy, adventure, mystery. It's just an age that captivates me. Starting to realize why.
I read LotR at 6 yrs old. I'm covered in tattoos of his work, and I named my firstborn Thorin. Tolkien is the GOAT 💪😎🗡️ I've been through terrible things, and without his works I surely would have perished.
"Imagine Russians reading LOTR and sympathizing to Sauron" WTF, the second time I hear about this Russian book (The Last Ringbearer) from an English 'text', the second time the author cannot see that it's clear and pure parody. It is known and discussed in Russia if was the Mordor based on USSR, ever since the first translation of LOTR - which became one of the most popular fantasy (and in general) books in Russia - and remains like that till this day. Personally I can't imagine a Russian literally counting Sauron as a good fella apart from the ironic fleur. Stop building artificial boundaries.
@@windradyne8724 What kind of parody is it? A parody of certain kinds of fanfiction (written before fanfiction became mainstream)? A loving parody of the original premise. A "Connecticut Yankee..." type parody in the LOTR universe (but without the time travel?
I wouldn’t say that these stories were a Legendarium for the Germans specifically, but for Europeans (mostly central and north western ones but still all European) since it has the classic trope of all of us banding together against some great eastern darkness that believes in a faith that is connected to our own but not exactly the same, also the Easter kings and dark forces are modeled after Turkic and Mongolian people as well as Arabic and Persian, while Rohan is basically Viking Cavalry and Numenor is The heavy plate knights of the French and English and later celts, while the elves, at lest armour wise and also wisdom wise resemble the Greeks who were more advanced in Europe than say the Germans for most of antiquity
@@bighillraft I never said he was racist and I don’t consider himself to be racist at all, but he is biased because he based Englands “mythology” after many Germanic people like the Saxons, when the Saxons and the Angles and others, weren’t native Britains
I am working on a historical epic about the rise and fall of Cleveland, Ohio. I think its really interesting because unlike most cities west of the Appalachians which began as military outposts, Cleveland was founded as a commercial enterprise, rose to be the richest city in the world and then had a century of decline.
Morgoth is an equivelent in Tolkien's work for Satan, not Sauron. Sauron, in fact was his servant so he's more like your "devil" from classical novels.
"I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history -- true or feigned -- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author" ---J.R.R. Tolkien Can't help but feel you missed the point when we dropped into the Soviet parallels.
You might want to be a little more careful with your comments regarding black holes. The 'images' we have of them are not photographs, they're from radio teloscopy, which means the color values in the displayed pictures were chosen rather than a representation of what they actually look like. In other words it looks like the eye of sauron because the person doing the coloring thought it should, rather than the other way around.
I never thought you’d make a video about Lord of the rings but I’m so happy you did. If you ever get a chance I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Silmarillion
I'm English and middle earth has always resonated with me it manages to convey the beauty of the countryside amazingly going on an adventure hiking up hills and fording steams its sharing the love I feel for my home for my world in a story of adventure and magic every time I read it I feel like a kid again playing by the river looking for trolls under bridges and when I'm out under the stars at night the elbereth gilthoniel poem always comes to mind LOTR has a magic to it that no book I have read since has replicated nor do I think one could.
Agreed. I never gave Lewis much of a chance because I personally found Narnia unappealing. However, I then discovered screwtape letters, space trilogy, and all of his non fiction. The guy is an intellectual titan
I just wanted to say that I am incredibly proud of you being able to open up about your PTSD in a video like this. It is a big step for you in your recovery.
The thing about the tower representing arrogance remind me of when in book 6 of the Aeneid, Aeneas’s father tells him that the Roman’s will spare the defeated and subdue the arrogant. And Aeneas and Aragorn are kinda similar too, they are tasked with a mission to lead their people to glory and stuff like that.
Everyone’s seeing Patrick Bateman, The Driver, and Tyler Durden for their masculinity. But can we all agree that Aragorn is the epitome of healthy masculinity?
Good video on the history of LOTR, but Like Stories of Old has the best breakdown of Tolkien philosophy on RUclips. Touches on the catholic symbolism a lot more, which I think was a larger focus for LOTR than was mentioned in this video in terms of the philosophy.
6:50 Tolkien was actually inspired by Kalevala a lot. He started writing the story of Kullervo in English (from Kalevala) but stopped. The story of Turin Turambar is heavily borrowed from the story of Kullervo in Kalevala. There might be some other subtle connections and inspiration but nothing as direct that I could prove. Kalevala is somewhat disjointed indeed, it was gathered from different poems from different singers all across the country, and Lönnrot had to force them a bit to conform to the grand narrative, although they did have some connections. Quenya, specifically, was based on Finnish. Sindarin is based on Welsh.
I thought that Tolkien said himself that he created his world around his love of linguistics, and so he could build his own language.? And also that he said it wasn’t an allegory, I may be wrong, so I’m really asking. (Please read your replies to me and keep hate to yourself, thank you.)
28:45 there is actually another book trilogy by another russian author named Nick Perumov, the trilogy is called "Ring of Darkness". It tells a post-LOTR story about a grand-grandson of Merry (iirc) travelling east with two dwarves and exploring the local culture, nations and meeting a few characters, one of whom is a great chief of east who then comes west, destroys local kingdoms and then challenges the Valar. I utterly simplified the plot but the core is something like that.
I wonder how you would feel about One Piece, being what a lot of people describe as a modern version of the Odyssey, and Berserk, one of the best stories ever
21:15 My guy, the bit about the hobbits and British Empire is complete BS. Tolkien was anti-imperialist and anti-British. "“I love England (not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth (grr!))” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, 1943. He valued England and medieval Anglo-Saxon culture which he he thought to be contrary to the ideas of Britishness or Americanism and of colonial empires. “I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, 1945. Did you even read any Tolkien's letters when he speaks about the inspiration for LotR and about politics? He would be disgusted at the idea that British or American empires are some wonderful protectors of the world from communism or nazism. Tolkien considered liberalism the part of the problem as much as the other two. He would also admired a French, Spanish or German peasant living a simple, joyful, Catholic life much better than any puritan British colonial governor that brings "civilization" to other peoples. Shire and Hobbits do represent rural England and a silmple life as a rejection of any will to power. But it does not represent British managing their colonies 'well' or being 'more reasonable" than other ethinicties. Hobbits do not 'control' the Ring. They resist it's lure beacuse they do not have big desires, either social or personal. Didn't you watch the movies as well that you cannot use the power of the Ring without being corrupted? Having an Empire is already a sign that you are corrupted. Tolkien also lamented that English is becoming most common language in the world. "But seriously: I do find this Americo-cosmopolitanism very terrifying. Quâ mind and spirit, and neglecting the piddling fears of timid flesh which does not want to be shot or chopped by brutal and licentious soldiery (German or other), I am not really sure that its victory is going to be so much the better for the world as a whole and in the long run than the victory of Nazis. I don't suppose letters in are censored. But if they are, or not, I need to you hardly add that them's the sentiments of a good many folk - and no indication of lack of patriotism. For I love England (not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth (grr!)), and if I was of military age, I should, I fancy, be grousing away in a fighting service, and willing to go on to the bitter end - always hoping that things may turn out better for England than they look like doing." ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 53. The adventures of the hobbits have nothing to do with English peasants going to their colonies and getting powerful through ruling others. They symbolize life and it's struggles, and the value of not being greedy for money, power etc. You are literally having a post-modernist approach to Tolkien's works - projecting your own ideas on it. "And nothing can really amend my grief that you, my best beloved, have any connexion with it. My sentiments are more or less those that Frodo would have had if he discovered some Hobbits learning to ride Nazgûl-birds, 'for the liberation of the Shire'. Though in this case, as I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust, I am afraid I am not even supported by a glimmer of patriotism in this remaining war. I would not subscribe a penny to it, let alone a son, were I a free man." ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 100.
I think some people read too much into the details - the overall theme is treat everyone with respect - everyone has a part to play, and it's not clear what that might be until the time comes. For most of the story Gollum could have been killed by various members of the company and their allies, but a number of times it is only by Frodo's kindness he is spared. And then right at the end when the ring gets the better of Frodo, it is Gollum who saves they day - admittadly with his selfish and careless actions, but if he wasn't there he wouldn't have saved Frodo, and Middle Earth, from the ring. So don't look down on those you percieve as lesser than you, treat them with grace and respect as they might not be what they seem, or you think, and one day they might be important, you never know how things might work out.
Lord Of The Rings might be the last truly great work of literature (heck, maybe even art period) that Western Civilization has created. People will still be reading LOTR (and Tolkien's other works) in 500 years, something I can't say about anything that has come out since, with the possible exception of Harry Potter.
There are two more Eastern Roman/Bysantium comparisons which could be made. The first one are the Beacons of Gondor - the bysantines actually had such a system. The second one is the Arab siege of Constantinople 717/718 where the bulgarians, primarily a cavalry army, came from the north east to attack the besieging army. Great video, keep it up! 😊
This video was a welcome surprise! I'm technically still a teenager (19) and I'm equally as obsessed LOTR! Tolkien's works had and always will have a profound impact on my life. From the rich history to the deep, thought provoking themes, to the beautiful prose of the books and the masterful film adaptations of them (well, for LOTR anyway lol Rings of Power doesn't even exist in my eyes!). And you did a pretty good and interesting interpretation of them! I hope you do more videos like this at some point!
I would describe this video as you having a pre-existing view of LOTR and constructing an argument to support that view, rather than researching and learning about the context behind LOTR and then presenting what you learned.
Yes, Sauron was obviously evil, but the protagonists of Tolkien's world leave a lot to be desired. Gondor was founded on lands violently conquered by Numenoreans, a race of seven foot tall super humans granted longer life, knowledge and vitality by the "gods" as a reward for their faithful alliance with an arrogant tribe of elves. The un-blessed men of Middle-Earth had no chance against their power and never asked to be subjugated by Isildur and his descendants. The poor Men of middle-earth have always been left to face a fearful world on their own, abandoned from the very outset by Eru Illuvatar and his godlike servants. The firstborn elves were gifted by Illuvatar with immortality and were made spiritually and physically greater than Men. They were welcomed into the land of the gods, where they lived in beauty, wisdom and protection. Men on the other hand were left alone in fear and ignorance when they first awoke, abandoned by God until found by the Devil himself, who tortured, deceived and corrupted them, twisting some of them into the vile race of Orcs. They were made fragile and suffered illness and injury. In the ages that followed Elves remained in communion with the gods and understood the divine plan. Men on the other hand were never granted such knowledge and lived in constant fear of death. Is it any wonder that Sauron and his promise of an ordered industrialized world where Men ruled above all appealed to the fearful and oppressed Men of the East. Why should Men remain loyal to Illuvatar when He never showed them love in the first place?
The thing with the Kalevala is that it's a collection of folk stories and myths from across Finland. It's similar to the national epic of Iran in that way
It is impossible to put into words how much I appreciate this piece. It is just f'ing brilliant. I may be bias growing up with these works. I read the full series of books 7x as a teen/young adult. The movies were extremely good too putting the books to visual form like few have done.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places. But still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands, love is now mingled with grief, it still grows, perhaps the greater.” -Tolkien
4:12 "the closest english equivalent, Beowulf is literally set in Scandinavia and never even mentions the country of England." The Lord of the Rings: adopts themes from Norse and Finns and never mentions England :D
I think the central moral lesson of Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit is that the humble smallfolk are the ones who will save the world. The high and mighty fall to their pride and ambition. Melkor "the mightiest of all the dwellers of Eä" antagonized the rest of the universe until he was bound and banished. Feanor doomed his people to endless war, Ar-Pharazon rebelled against the valar and doomed his civilization. And when the time came, a tiny hobbit resisted the temptation of the one ring long enough to cast it back into its foundry. Goodness is more important than Greatness.
Ar-Pharazon didn't even need Sauron's influence to turn evil. He took his predecessor's daughter and throne by force and Sauron knew that he could happily surrender to him, the victor would soon be wax in his hands.
This video of Whatifalthist could not have come to me at a more favourable time. Just in the following weeks after the video released, they are finally shown again in the theaters near to me, and it will be the first time for me to see them on the big screen. (However, I have seen them on my home TV/DVD about a dozen times, and I have read the books, and Silmarillion and other books). Thus, it serves as a great introduction to the movie series I am going to watch again. It really helped to make some sense of the themes of the series, even if I actually had myself come to the same interpretations about the meaning of the story as Rudyard has, just looking at the source text.
Stalin was just an empty vessel for historical progress from his POV. It's the Jungian thing where a person doesn't have an idea but the idea has that person.
❤ Korpiklaani. My wife and I saw them in 2018 for our anniversary. I got to sit at the bar with their bassist Jarko. He told me the meaning and translation of many of their Finnish language songs. Probably helped my wife was in a corset and bouncing for Cain most of the night lol
It's rare for me to insta click on a video and be excited for it and any new Whatifalthist vid gets me excited, but Whatifalthist AND LotR is like a dream come true.
I first read Tolkien as a kid in the late 60s (not all the people who watch and like your channel are Gen-Z or millennials) and he is for me what I believe Homer, Virgil, Malory and Dante were for their respective civilizations. Good to see you have the same inclination, and great video on the subject.
Kalevala and Finnish (And Karelian) mythology is a super interesting beast in and of itself. As you mentioned, there's very little actual remains of North Germanic stories, but the full collection of Finnish mythological songs includes 100,000 (That's ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND) recorded and published songs, along with 60,000 that remain unpublished. Hence why Kalevala feels a bit disjointed at times, as there was no single coherent narrative, instead the editor took the parts they deemed the most interesting and related enough, sprinkled it with a bit of their own connective writing, and forged a story out of something that was originally a collection of separate mythological legends. Really interesting stuff, and especially given how much material there is available, I have to admit that I'm super pissed and salty that people seem to dumbly drool over the boring and derivative Norse mythology when something so vast and unique exists right next door :(
The Rohirrim are transparently based on the Anglo-Saxons. The Rohirric language is literally Anglo-Saxon, as Prof. Tolkien taught it at Oxford. Tolkien felt that the worst thing to ever happen to England was the Norman conquest, and figured that if only the Anglo-Saxons had made use of heavy cavalry, they could have repelled William's invasion at Hastings. Thus, the Rohirrim were born: Anglo-Saxons who could have defeated the Normans
I always thought Gondor also stood for France, Mordor for Germany and Minas Ithil turned into Minas Morgul for Alsace Lorraine which switched hands from Germany(well HRE) to France, back to Germany and back to France.
I’m going to defend Russia…hahaha… let’s see it is one of the greatest trolling events ever that they actually side with Sauron. Secondly, where do you get that they don’t respect intelectual rights, on a curious note and to be fair, why on earth have all read and know of Orwell and Huxley and as great sages but not Zamyatin. Even Orwell who was the second hand copy said Huxley must have copied and he denied it, so no respect for intelectual influence in this case at least from two AngloSaxon writers about their Russian influence in We. Other than this side note great video as ever!
Sauron isn't actually directly Satan, but an important follower of his, Morgoth. Morgoth wanted to spite Eru Iluvitar by making his creations fail and Sauron wanted to make a perfect world by imposing his greater intellect via taking away free will. This isn't mentioned in TLOR and he does enough Satan like things to work as him, though. Orcs are also corrupted Elves via suffering and hateful breeding or something like that.
Sauron is not the devil in the lord of the rings. There has been quite a lot of discourse about this topic, but sauron is decidedly not supposed to be Lucifer, despite being portrayed as such in the films. Melkor, or morgoth, the first dark lord, is very much so a satanic figure, with his fall from grace at the creation of the world, being the source of all evil and the personification of malice. Sauron however is not this being, and is rather presented as someone who yes, fell from grace, but had numerous opportunities to go back to the light. He is more akin to a Loki type figure, someone who, despite his past wrongdoings, continued to work with the good guys until his ultimate betrayel set them apart. For sauron, he was almost pardoned of his last crimes by the end of the first age, and later on went to work with the elves on the constructions of the rings, and afterwards work with the men of numenour, betraying both of them, with his final betrayel at numenor being what set him as the great enemy of the west and disfiguring him forever, whereas Loki lived amongst the aesir despite constantly feuding with them and hurting them, until eventually he committed a sin which he couldn't walk away from, that being killing balder, which resulted in him being disfigured and locked away until the end times, when he'll be set free and fight against the aesir in Ragnarok. Also, sauron is not an incorporeal spirit of evil. Sauron has a body, with nine fingers on it. He can no longer shapeshift into beautiful forms and trick others, he can no longer be perceived as good, as he lost all shreds of credibility in the fall of numenor. And the eye of sauron is not a giant vagina. Barad dur is not meant to be a singular massive tower with a flaming eye on top, it is a massive fortress, yes, but not a singular tower any more than minas tirith is a singular tower, and the flaming eye is merely a later invention. The eye of sauron, last time I checked, was supposed to be painted over barad dur, as a symbol of sauron being all knowing, with nothing escaping his gaze. Peter Jackson decided to make that symbolism into an actual feature, by making that symbolic eye into an actual eye and taking away sauron's body. While a lot of this analysis is centered around looking at the mythological origins of the lord of the rings, a lot of what you said here is based more on fanfiction elements that were introduced by peter Jackson and never conceived by Tolkien himself. While it's appreciated that you delve into the lord of the rings, perhaps rather than just reading the things Tolkien may have read, it's also important to read what Tolkien himself had to say, and what the scholarship around those works have to say. Many have studied the themes, origins and elements present in the lord of the rings and the wider legendarium, and I'd suggest giving those a read if you want to truly delve into it's deeper meaning
17:35 After stalins first wife died, he said, "Any love I had for the human race died with her" just adding to his point of stalin being pure evil he literally said I have no love in my heart for my fellow man.
He literally got isekai'd to Earth and wrote a bunch of successful books chronicling the history and heroes of the world he came from and you cannot convince me otherwise.
This guy has pretty interesting ideas... but oh god, all of this 'we anglo/americans are the virtuous/smart/mighty, the rest of the world is corrupt/evil' is SO exhausting to everyone else
Yeah it wouldn't be a whatifalthis video if he didn't start harping on about those gosh darn Communazis. I feel like I'm watching the History Channel but for Zoomers.
Feel slightly bad doing this but one of my favourite videos on youtube, is a video by someone called Empire of the mind, about "The Wanderer" (which is an old anglo saxon poem which tolkien loved / is a clear inspiration for the LoTR). It is a fantastical video which Id recommend for anyone who loves LoTR. Anyways back to watching whatifalthists video :D
I've enjoyed many of your predictive and analytical takes on history but must admit I enjoyed this video more than any other. This is the best 10,000-foot survey of Tolkien's value, intent, and accomplishments that I have read. Well done. You are correct about LOTR being THE most loved and recognized work of western literature. As an imaginative work, it cannot be judged in the same way as the Bible or even Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, but its significance for how we view ourselves and its premier position in modern western fiction cannot be argued.
The LotR is the most circulated book of the second millennium. The Bible is the most circulated book of the first millennium. Let that sink in. LotR is almost as popular as the fricking bible.
You align Aragon to Celtic mythology, based on the similarities to King Arthur, and this is certainly what Tolkien would have thought. However, he may have accidentally drew these theme's from Alanic indo-iranian mythology, if you follow the arguments of From Scythia to Camelot, which I think is an interesting consideration as the Alan's would themselves be culturally very similar to the Rohan, and a people destroyed by the westward expansion of the East
Another thing to add, Saturn is considered the ‘Lord of the Rings’ and was known in Near Eastern lands as EL, or ILLAH(Allah) which is usually symbolized by a black cube or of course, Rings and it’s hexagon or great swirling eye.
5:28 I have always viewed the "Undying Lands" as some kind of symbolism of death, paradise or heaven, reunion with God or another higher being. Ascending spiritually, in some manner. But certainty elves have been influenced by hunter-gatherers. No coincidence that Lothlorien is a forest, and elves are great archers.
I think Russians just like sarcasm and twisted narratives for fun. Most Russians I know treat Tolkien's work as one of the best, par to their Tolstoi and such
Watching this channel from its early days, while I don't always agree with his takes, I feel a sort of kinship with this dude now. The content has just been so good lately.
![The History of Sauron [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](/img/1.gif)
www.masterworks.art/whatifalthist
Love your videos ever since I found them about a year ago. Would you ever be open including in a video why the Nazi Party apparently stands for the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”, but they are considered to have been extreme-right and fascist in nature? I’ve always been confused as to why Socialist was in there name and I’m probably not the only one. Hopefully I didn’t just miss that it’s been covered in one of your videos already. Cheers.
Great video so far as always 👌👌
when you talked about so few people giving up the chance of power I thought of giving the background of Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus the true chad hobbit of the world.
1.Chill farmer relaxing on his farm, when invader's threaten the nation
2. takes full control of the entire empire and leads the army to war.
3. utterly crushes the enemy to the point where he is now redundant.
4. *smokes blunt* says I'm go grow some wheat and gives up unlimited power.
5. goes back to the farm grows some wheat and is remembered as a mythical hero and one of the greatest emperor's of all time. Only ruled for 16 days.
@@wishunter9000
TIK History channel has a lot of videos of their Socialism
I grew up near the brandywine river and when then sun sets there it looka very shire like.
@@wishunter9000 It's search engine optimisatiom
3:13 "You might not believe me, but I'm honestly not much of a nerd."
22:50 "When I was in high school, I wrote 400 pages of fantasy lore."
🤔
Nice catch
As nerd as it gets, the only thing that would make him a bigger nerd at this point is if he started quoting 40k lol
Glad i wasn't the only one who noticed that
Nerds were invented by Hollywood to keep smart people weak and strong people stupid.
Nerdism is like religions.
Some are polytheistic praying to all sort of nerdy gods being superheroes, star wars, fantasy, sci-fi etc.
But some nerds only believe in one god.
My step-father was a prominent Welsh politician and had no interest whatever in anything Fantasy or Sci-fi. But when I played Fellowship of the Ring in front of him, he was captivated. He kept telling me what the Elves were saying and claimed almost all of it was Welsh. LotR is by far the greatest story created by men of the West. It is our myth. And for me there were no Hobbit movies or that God-awful series. Just Peter Jackson's original 3 movies and the books that inspired them.
One thing I like about Jackson's movies is that he made changes, not that I thought the fellowship needed changes. But I don't see the point of an adaptation if you don't apply your own vision. I wouldn't have ever thought of those changes, and I don't think they seriously elevated the story, but they made the movies different enough to have their own merit. Needless to say, the hobbit movies and Amazon tv show are meritless in comparison, changes and all!
Your Step-Father was not wrong, Tolkien designed 2 Elvish languages, one based on Finnish and another based on Welsh...
LOTR is one of the best books ever written, it is so deep each time I read it I find something new.
@@tobyhall8048 Honestly the hobbit movies were at least trying to be respectful, but the amazon series is just retarded.
The fantasy genre is about the nobility and honor of our past. It's about seeing the world when it was still new and man/woman had so much to conquer. The wilderness is a real danger and technology allows only a bow or a sword to fight the demons of the forest. This danger and pre-modern setting allows our hero to both exist on the edge of a blade and also shape the world in a way modern man will never grasp. The idea a man can rally a company of fellow men to travel across the land and face the demons of the unknown filled with magic and fraught with danger only to ultimately succeed or die trying for a noble cause is a timeless narrative and message that inspires hope. Modern man find's comfort in the idea of such heroes and they inspire him to face the danger's of his own life no matter how petty or insignificant they comparably are.
This is why the woke crowd will never have a successful fantasy story. Their tether has been broken they are at complete odds with the past because their combination of neurosis, superiority, and arrogance leads them to despise their forefathers and the traditions of their people. To them only the future exist and the past and all it's deeds are ignorance and oppression.
just as modern man stands above and in dominion of all it see's and observes and lives in a perpetual state of safety and comfort, so do the heroes of a woke fantasy story. Someone who has been told what to think and marched towards a moral orthodoxy has no qualms about right or wrong and battles no demons so convinced of their own superior quality and disposition. Look at the hero of the new series Arrogant, all powerful, no growth, no change required, argumentative and self assured she is the modern man/woman. Their is no chance at failure and no self reflection. Their is no ring that tempts a hero to evil. The character doesn't need moral or mental fortitude because they have the power born in their limbs from the age of childhood. Borne of the ability to shape the world and tame the forest.
They are not held in bondage to the traditions or customs of their people like for example the original Mulan or Éowyn . The new lead character Galadriel in lord of the ring's laughs at tradition or customs and openly defies them to no punishment openly mocking/insulting kings and queens alike. she risk's nothing in defiance. Take Mulan or Éowyn for example who overcome the perception's of society and through the process of overcoming these societal expectations become true hero's themselves. Ironically being two of the greatest mythical feminist characters of all time.
I didn't like Jackson's films. But I had been reading the books twenty years before the films were made. I do like the visuals and costumes though.
@@tobyhall8048 get out of here
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” This is by far one of the greatest Quotes ever said imo
But it's soooo overused now. It's being said to describe almost everything made nowadays.
Cool
I.e., Amazon Prime sucks!!
That’s a paraphrasing of the quote.
It's the quote I remember whenever I see just about anything out of mainstream media these days.
In your PTSD topic, you neglected to mention Sam. Sam had the same pain as Frodo and Bilbo, as he was a ringbearer as well. The difference is that Sam believed in beauty, and no desire for power that the ring could use against him. While others were tempted with grandeur, the best it could do against Sam was show him an image of a beautiful garden world, which is dismissed by Sam as one person cannot possible manage a garden of that size. He lived a full life in Hobbiton after the war, mayor of the Shire for nearly fifty years, and had 13 children, and used all that remained of the magic in the world (the Mallorn nut and the small amount of soil) to beautify the Shire after Saruman razed it. Sam is incredibly strong of will, and his view of the world incredibly strong and stable, even in the face of experiencing evil. In spite of all that, once his wife Rosie dies (at age 98, Sam being 102), he still feels the weight of the ring, and needs the same divine healing Frodo and Bilbo received when they sailed West.
He was a hero in the war, and remained a pillar of the community at home, in spite of his friends and family not truly knowing the horrors he experienced.
Frodo left the world behind. Sam stayed, doing good until he could no longer.
Which Middle Earth character would be worthy of lifting Mjolnir? A question posed in Quora by Cesar Alcaraz
A splendid answer, written in proper Samwise Gamgee prose, was provided in Quora by Ben Skirvan :
"The oddest thing, Master Frodo. I was wanting a hammer what with the old fence… that being the one along Bagshot Lane… in need of mending. Out of the sky comes this great Dwarven mallet like from Bilbo's stories. Flew right into my hand it did. Like as it belonged there. Light as a feather, it was, too. Lighter even.
One of the big folks. Great strapping fellow with golden hair. He shows up very polite like. Says it's his hammer, but if the hammer don't mind me using it, well, then he don't either. Can’t say as what he meant by that, but he behaved right proper and decent. Even helped with the mending, if you can imagine that."
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Not one person in the history of Middle Earth is worthier than this humble gardner from Bagshot Row. Master Samwise Gamgee. More than a mere prince among Hobbits.
@@jonrolfson1686 Sam is such a well written and simply good character. I never fail to smile when Sam in mentioned in the books. Brings me back to a certain child-like whimsicalness I often wish I could recapture in my life.
Always said Sam was the real MVP my favorite character forsure
@@jonrolfson1686 Only simple minded people think Sam was greater than Frodo.
@@YourHeartIsTheKey You have a simple-minded view of greatness.
As an English person I really like the idea of the Lord of the Rings being our heroic tale. It really shows that this sort of thing is not just exclusive to the perceived "out-of-reach" past, but can be written in the modern day.
the cycle of Britain (Arthurian legend) is already your heroic tale.
@@appa609 Arthur is not English. He is British. There is a difference.
Tolkien said one of his drives to write the work was to give his homeland an ancient mythic origin story he lamented they lacked.
All they had recorded was lots of history
I imagine it would warm his heart to rrad you say that. 😀
@@adamlakeman7240Also Arthurian legend was made from Welsh folk lore and popularized by French people.
"The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism."
- J.R.R. "The GOAT" Tolkien
Liked this video a lot, but barely scratching the surface of the Christian influence is really sad
Once you learn about Eru Illuvatar, Tolkien's Christian influence becomes very apparent.
Even a Torie, an Anglo-Saxon conservative, has no idea of Catholic universalism.
" But the greatest and most influential reactionary of the 20th century was Tolkien, not Kennan." (Niall Ferguson)
Yeah, uh....sorry, but 99% of what he drew from was our PAGAN past.
Has little to fuck all to do with jesus.
@@frekitheravenous516 Not true at all, there are plenty of Christian motifs. Here are a few examples that Tolkein himself alluded to being Christian inspired:
Morgoth and Sauron (like Satan) can not create, only corrupt. Sauron is also like Satan in that they are both fallen angels.
Eru intervenes in Arda both directly and indirectly. Directly as he sinks Numenor, indirectly as he allows Biblo to find the ring and makes Gollum trip and fall into MT Doom.
The entire story takes place in "ages" which is a Catholic motif. According to Catholicism, Christ was born in the sixth age of earth.
The entirety of the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" in which Finrod accepts the idea of Eru himself one day coming to earth to cleanse it of evil (Jesus Christ)
One really cool thing is that Tolkien fundamentally rejected the idea of a Paragon, or the idea that people can be perfect and incorruptible, and demonstrated this by making Frodo fail in his mission and give in to the ring's power. Instead, Tolkien posits that real positive change happens in the small acts of mercy and kindness that we choose to show each other every day, and indeed, in the Lord of the Rings, Bilbo's act of mercy in sparing Gollum's life followed by Frodo's act of mercy in sparing him ultimately is what enabled the destruction of the ring - because Gollum was the one who (inadvertently) ended up destroying it, and not Frodo.
Yes... AND there is the "fun twist" that it was Gollum's own greed... for the ring... which killed him AND destroyed the ring.
The scene if the first film where Frodo says "It is a pity that Bilbo didnt kill him when he had the chance" & Gandalf goes on to say "Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many who live deserve death, & some who die deserve life. Can you to give it to them, Frodo? Dont be so eager to deal out death & judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
It actually changed my perspective of capital punishment.
An obvious symbolic correlation of the ring that you skipped is how you can relate it to the chtistian conception of sin. When Frodo puts the ring in he is immediately sent to the wraith realm, where all the men who succumbed to the ring's influence end up living forever. The ring is known to realize the greatest tendencies of the characters, hence why Bilbo, Frodo and Smeagol all disappear when putting in the ring because it's in their nature as hobbits to desire to "disappear". And yet, despite believing they can control the ring, the ring serves only one master. So the ring isn't just about power, but it correlates power, sin, death and becoming Sauron's slave (like the Nazgul became).
I thought it was just a quirk of the ring that it makes you go into the wraith world and make you invisible unless you know what you're doing with it.
@@ForbiddenFollyFollower In the first chapters when Gandalf is describing the ring to Frodo and explaining Smeagol's story, he explains the ring made Smeagol disappear because he was initially ashamed of murdering his friend, and he knew the people of the village would ask questions. So, according to the tendencies of Hobbits, his greatest weakness is cowardice and a desire to disappear, Smeagol did that and basically became a thief for a while using his new "gift". The ring just gives you an illusion of control over it but the book is clear it serves no one other than Sauron.
@@RedactedBrainwaves I thought it was implied that the One Ring also made Isildur invisible---he didn't wear it normally, but did put it on to try to take it away from the Gladden Fields and became visible again when he lost it in the river.
The wonderful part of this book is the vocabulary. The beautiful English words that have fallen into disuse, or minimal use. I learned to really appreciate English based on this book.
💖💖💖
My favorite is cunny, so funny.
Pipin: gandalf the orcs are at the gates
Gandalf: well don't be racist let them in
Europe be like
Orc lives matter, orc reparations 😂
Orcs aren’t actually people with free will, they are basically animals that are “possessed” by Morgoth/Sauron, filled with their hatred, evil, rebellion against god, and desire to dominate.
The Eagles are just animals too, but they’re possessed of Manwë’s goodness.
@@gamerpigeon4513 You can respect something whilst acknowledging that you’d never want to live that way and understanding it’s seeking to displace you.
For example, I can respect Stalin or Mao, even though I vehemently disagree with communism. I can respect that they both accomplished a great deal, even if largely harmful.
@@ConnortheCanaanite I watched the video and I admit I probably commented too quickly. Still, I personally would not mind living in whatever way comes in the future but I will admit that not everyone wants/thinks like that. Everyone just has a different opinion I guess.
Side note Jackson's trilogy is literally the best possible interpretation we could have ever gotten of the books. It came at the perfect time. Any earlier and it wouldn't have been given the appropriate reverence (see Bakshi's LOTR) and any later it would have become some woke nonsense peddled by some greedy corporation trying to maximize profits like The Hobbit (which wasn't the former all that much but definitely was the latter) or Rings of Power.
Let’s not forget the time when mr krabs sold SpongeBob’s soul for 62 cents
I stole your comment just a heads up
@@trolloftime5340 a comment that deserves to be known worldwide for the biggest crime that mr krabs committed
Now that's just not practical he should have sold him for at least the cost of a couple burger patties hehe
For methamphetamines
expert commentary on western civilization equivalent to that of lord of the rings no doubt
I’d love a breakdown like this for Star Wars. I know the franchise has its problems, but George Lucas’ original vision (episodes 1-6) is honestly America’s epic. There are so many profound political and religious themes that I can’t help but feel you’d be the perfect person to cover them.
Tbh Lucas does not get enough credit for the prequels. Sure some people don't like the narrative or find it boring, but the trilogy is a love letter to film. Every choice and every scene is deliberately thought out to capture moments and vibes from classic cinema.
Tldr if anything the prequels would make a great video on American mythos due to its connection to film and Hollywood
@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 The Prequels have gotten a decent following more recently but yeah they definitely deserve their spot next to the originals
I know the bad evil empire thing has been way overdone since star wars, but we really did take down a genuinely evil empire hellbent on destroying everything in its way. Sometimes it really is just that obvious to see who is good and evil.
@assortment of pills, but never blue pill some would say he gets to much credit. But Star wars potential as an American mythology is pretty spot on. To bad they try to mine it for money instead of love.
I was thinking the exact same thing towards the end of this video. Star Wars (and maybe Marvel and DC heroes) are the only stories that even remotely come close to the level of mythology for our society, although you can argue that Star Wars and the comic heroes are more American than western in general, although they traditionally do adhere to thos broader western values in LOTR when handled properly. (which goes to show how terrible both have become now in recent years). It's frankly why the corruption of LOTR, Star Wars, Marvel, and DC represent the largest and loudest backlash against the woke bastardization of our cultural mythology more than basically anything else they've tried to subvert. It's because it's an attack on our mythical foundations. The only aspect of American mythology that hasn't been thoroughly attacked yet is the cowboy western, although I think we're starting to see it now that westerns are slowly coming back (I think we can point to both good and subversive representations of the western).
I have always loved the LOTR books and movies as a kid. Being from a non-Euuro bg, I never once thought about representation.
Shut up you racist, you will be represented.
LOTR is my favorite literary lore
@@noahtylerpritchett2682
💖💖💖
@Lavish whoa how original a non-euro who don't care about representation you must be cool
Me too, it never even crossed my mind as a child.
A review of The Lord of the Ring in a Czechoslovak newspaper in 1977.
To give some context, the Czech Republic was then part of the Eastern Bloc. It was ruled by the Communist Party. In 1977, a review of The Lord of the Rings was published in "our" newspaper "Rudé právo" (can be translated as "Red Law"). For interest, I am attaching its translation, and in the next commentary the Czech original.
I am not a translator, so please excuse any errors.
--------------
Red Law, 1977 - Review of The Lord of the Rings
This is another attack on the socialist establishment.
The evil empire, from which ashes and smoke billow, is transparently placed in the East, the image of the working class, united in the sweat of its face to build heavy industry, is to be the vile and evil Orcs. Of course, the son of a bourgeois family cannot see anything beautiful and uplifting about hard work. In contrast, the inhabitants of the west - the lands flowing with milk and cinders - the elves (or aristocracy), the humans (the bourgeoisie) and the hobbits (the landlords) live in affluence (with no explanation as to where they get it from), and the only thing that worries them is the "threat" from the east. The "forces of good" here are a collection of representatives of these reactionary circles whose hands have never touched a proper job. Their leader is Gandalf, the propagator of a backward ideology, with whose help he keeps the population ignorant and fearful of progress. (...)
No wonder then that Saruman, the defender of the oppressed and friend of progress, is declared a traitor, and his mansion is destroyed by a band of fanatical reactionaries. Then, when he spreads socialism in the Shire, he is caught and punished without trial by the hobbits, supported and paid for by the capitalist power Gondor. (...)
The original text I found on the internet is attached below. It is slightly abridged - I could not find the complete version.
------------------------
Rudé právo, 1977 - Recenze Pána prstenů:
Jde o další útok proti socialistickému zřízení.
Říše zla, z níž se valí popel a dým, je průhledně umístěna na východě, obrazem dělnické třídy, která jednotná v potu tváře buduje těžký průmysl, mají být odporní a zlí skřeti. Samozřejmě, že synáček z buržoazní rodiny nemůže vidět na těžké práci nic krásného a povznášejícího. Obyvatelé západu - zemí oplývajících mlékem a strdím - elfové (neboli aristokracie), lidé (buržoazie) a hobiti (statkáři) žijí naopak v blahobytu (aniž je vysvětleno, odkud jej získávají, a jediné, co je trápí, je „hrozba“ z východu. „Síly dobra“ zde představuje sbírka představitelů těchto reakčních kruhů, jejichž ruce se nikdy nedotkly pořádné práce. Jejich vůdcem je Gandalf, šiřitel zpátečnické ideologie, s jejíž pomocí udržuje obyvatelstvo v nevědomosti a strachu před pokrokem. (…)
Není pak divu, že Saruman, zastánce utlačovaných a přítel pokroku, je prohlášen za zrádce, a jeho sídlo je zničeno bojůvkou fanatických zpátečníků. Když pak šíří socialismus v Kraji, je chycen a bez soudu potrestán hobity, podporovanými a placenými kapitalistickou mocností Gondorem. (…)
this perfectly shows how communists used to bend everything to fit the propaganda even as everything they touched was objectively made worse
Lmfao of course they side with the orcs
Many bad guys think they are good. Lol
Who would be interested in even more autographs about the Professor. Copy to RUclips.
"Как Толкин придумал мир "Властелина колец" | ФАЙБ"
The interesting thing about LOTR for me is that almost every fantasy setting comes from it.
This man single handedly created a point through which a big part of our culture is expressed
I'm so ready for the civilation videos on Warhammer and Avatar the Last Airbender
Down. I love both of those
@@WhatifAltHistHave you ever read the Expanse Books? It could do for a great civilisation video.
@@WhatifAltHist warhammer first before avatar though
@@WhatifAltHist STAR_SHIP_TROOPERS.
We want an autistic breakdown of the revolt of the scientists/the Federations policy of earned enfranchisement ... and to know more (obviously).
@@WhatifAltHist
ATLA is amazing
Please do one of these on the Dune books, they are also heavily influenced by Jungian thought and are perhaps the best pieces of science fiction writing of all time. What LOTR is to fantasy, Dune is to Sci Fi
Fun fact, apparently Tolkien hated Dune when he read it. He was never really into Sci Fi stuff to begin with but Dune has this unique focus on political and ecological stuff compared to LOTR's anthropological and mythological.
@@archdukeofsuno2954Both are really good
@@robbsclock2675
Agree 💯
@@archdukeofsuno2954 Tolkien didn’t say he “hated” Dune. He said “It is impossible for an author still writing to be fair to another author working along the same lines. At least I find it so. In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment.”
@@deriznohappehquite
"dislike Dune with some intensity" sounds like a longer way of saying he hated it.
8:27 Eowyn's defeat of the witch-king has a much more modern inspiration, Macbeth. When J.R.R. Tolkien had to do Shakespeare in high school, he did not like many of the "prophecies" in Macbeth. The most prominent of these was the technicality of being born by C-section that allowed Macduff to kill Macbeth and bypass his "can't be killed a man born from a woman" protection. He though that was crap and asked the obvious of wouldn't it make sense if it was a woman had killed him instead. He mixed in a little bit of Shield maidens/ Valkyries and boom.
Yes, I immediately remembered Shakespeare's MacBeth motive when seeing Eowyn killing the Witch King (I also must have read it in the book but this was long ago).
I read LOTR 32 times while sitting in high school (1974 - 77). It probably saved my life by giving me real values to cling to while being suicidal. I agree with Rupert Sheldrakes theory of Morphic resonance which does much to explain the hidden connections such a archetypes and shared behaviors where time and distance say such is impossible. Life creates "habits" which resonate somehow through time and space sharing information to those of similar form or activity. I believe it is the great missing piece to the puzzle of existence. I agree with your analysis of Tolkien. I suspect he saw firsthand addiction through the thousands of wounded vets and the damage done psychologically to these men. LOTR is a summation myth of many of the best Western stories while rising above them all as an original work.
When I was a child, I always wanted to skip the scenes with Frodo and Sam because they were not as exciting as what the other characters were up to, until Mt. Doom and then I was captivated. However, now as an adult, it's the scenes of Frodo and Sam trudging in Mordor that stick with me the most and have been a balm when I was suffering, an encouragement to keep going even when the goal isn't in sight.
@@DiMacky24 The worth of friendship is critical to the story and no one portrays this devotion more than Sam. When Frodo turns on him after Gollum lies saying Sam ate all their food it becomes all the more tragic and heart-wrenching. No line speaks deeper to me than near the end after the ring is disposed and it looks like certain death when Frodo says something to the effect of "i'm so glad to be with you Sam, here at the end of all things".
Not to be that guy...but Morgoth is clearly the Satin figure, not Sauron.
🤔And now we have ‘Knights in Black Satin.’
Interesting demonic chemistry:
▪︎Satan - saturated, only single bonds
▪︎Saten - having a double bond
▪︎Satin - having a triple bond.
😎
But yes, of course, Melkor is the best match to Satan.
Sauron is shown as a giant Eye on top of a tower only in the movies. Tolkien never describes him like this. When Tolkien mantions the Eye of sauron, its Just that, his eyes. But yes Sauron has a palantir, so he can see quite a lot of things
The Eye of Sauron is also his crest, and symbolizes Sauron’s “psychic abilities”, for lack of a better term.
I can understand why the film adaptation changed it though. A guy looking out a window wouldn’t be as impressive.
Sauron is of course a literal demon, though.
And buddy claims the eye of Sauron is a vagina and the tower is a penis according….
WhatIfs videos are entertaining but so cringe sometimes. Hard to take him seriously
@@deriznohappehquite I’ve always drawn the connection between the flaming eye of Sauron and the flaming eye of Balor.
I’ve drawn the similarity of the eye of Sauron with the one eye symbolism of the secrett societies and the anti-Christ or the Dajjal.
@@lavish_1717 heyya
im so happy The Lord of the Rings movies were made before the current modern culture could corrupt it
I would argue that King Arthur has become the mythical tale of Great Britain despite it’s Celtic origins. The majority of Briton’s are inspired by the Arthurian mythos and it has since involved to encapsulate not just the spirit of the Celtic inhabitants, but the entirety of the isles as well.
King Arthur was very real, and there was no such thing as celtic in the british isles. They were britons, check out wilson and blacketts work. Or britainshiddenhistory, they spent their life trying to show the supressed history. Welsh kids were taught about Arthur in history lessons until the 1920s
@@Hero_Of_Old for some he maybe real for others a legend.
Tolkien found the Arthur material, in the form we now have it, "too French."
I'd recommend looking into some of Tolkien's personal writings about his works, because he himself is fairly frank about what inspirations were overtly intended to communicate a similar meaning to it's source point (like much of the usage of Finnish) versus things like The Ring where he was supposedly quoted as saying something like "Both stories focus on a ring, and there their similarities end". He was even more explicit about separating any outright comparisons to Christianity not because it didn't inform some of what he was writing but more in that is wasn't meant to be a regurgitation of Christian symbolism or ideas.
Tolkien loved history, but not the history of textbooks. He read droves of accounts from world travelers and became intrigued by the notion of hollow (middle) Earth, and it's... fascinating, to see how many of his takes on hobbits and elves and giants are kind of familiar to a conspiracy theorist. Not to mention how recent discoveries of ancient species similar to humans like Denisovans and Homo Florensis resemble those in his work
I have always been drawn to the literature of the Victorian age- whether travelogs, fantasy, adventure, mystery. It's just an age that captivates me. Starting to realize why.
I read LotR at 6 yrs old. I'm covered in tattoos of his work, and I named my firstborn Thorin.
Tolkien is the GOAT 💪😎🗡️ I've been through terrible things, and without his works I surely would have perished.
Tattoos are for orcs
@@WiggaMachiavelliNobody asked you, tark scum
"Imagine Russians reading LOTR and sympathizing to Sauron" WTF, the second time I hear about this Russian book (The Last Ringbearer) from an English 'text', the second time the author cannot see that it's clear and pure parody. It is known and discussed in Russia if was the Mordor based on USSR, ever since the first translation of LOTR - which became one of the most popular fantasy (and in general) books in Russia - and remains like that till this day. Personally I can't imagine a Russian literally counting Sauron as a good fella apart from the ironic fleur. Stop building artificial boundaries.
Yeah it's annoying. It is obvious humour and parody but since its comes from a Russian it MUST be serious.
Its a country that is destroying itself as we speak for literally nothing, how are we supposed to believe they think logically
@@windradyne8724 What kind of parody is it? A parody of certain kinds of fanfiction (written before fanfiction became mainstream)? A loving parody of the original premise. A "Connecticut Yankee..." type parody in the LOTR universe (but without the time travel?
I wouldn’t say that these stories were a Legendarium for the Germans specifically, but for Europeans (mostly central and north western ones but still all European) since it has the classic trope of all of us banding together against some great eastern darkness that believes in a faith that is connected to our own but not exactly the same, also the Easter kings and dark forces are modeled after Turkic and Mongolian people as well as Arabic and Persian, while Rohan is basically Viking Cavalry and Numenor is The heavy plate knights of the French and English and later celts, while the elves, at lest armour wise and also wisdom wise resemble the Greeks who were more advanced in Europe than say the Germans for most of antiquity
Thats why they are trying to deconstruct it so hard. They don't want us whites unifying or having any sense of identity.
Having Vikings, Germania in the mix and thinking Persia was darkness is bit too much but we will let it slip.
@@rahulvats95 well he was Germanic so he would be a bit biased
@@billychops1280 he isnt biased, Tolkien wasnt racist at all, the story was designed to be an English legend/myth so he made it "racist" on purpose
@@bighillraft I never said he was racist and I don’t consider himself to be racist at all, but he is biased because he based Englands “mythology” after many Germanic people like the Saxons, when the Saxons and the Angles and others, weren’t native Britains
I am working on a historical epic about the rise and fall of Cleveland, Ohio. I think its really interesting because unlike most cities west of the Appalachians which began as military outposts, Cleveland was founded as a commercial enterprise, rose to be the richest city in the world and then had a century of decline.
Chad MiC versus virgin free market
We have certainly come a long way from when this was purely an alternate history channel...
Morgoth is an equivelent in Tolkien's work for Satan, not Sauron. Sauron, in fact was his servant so he's more like your "devil" from classical novels.
Sauron is Saturn, rings of saturn/lord of the rings. When you look at saturn its a red eye.
"I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history -- true or feigned -- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author" ---J.R.R. Tolkien
Can't help but feel you missed the point when we dropped into the Soviet parallels.
This is exactly what I thought too.
I think the pains Bilbo and Frodo experience that you compare to PTSD are equally strong descriptions of being a recovered addict.
My favorite book series and whatifalthist is not the crossover I expected. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
**sigh** That wasn't _real_ Mordorism.
You might want to be a little more careful with your comments regarding black holes. The 'images' we have of them are not photographs, they're from radio teloscopy, which means the color values in the displayed pictures were chosen rather than a representation of what they actually look like. In other words it looks like the eye of sauron because the person doing the coloring thought it should, rather than the other way around.
Heck yeah buddy! LOTR is easily the best fiction book that I've ever read.
I never thought you’d make a video about Lord of the rings but I’m so happy you did. If you ever get a chance I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Silmarillion
The Gondor/Rohan Relationship is much more analogous to the Byzantine/Kievan Rus relationship rather than the germanic/roman
Excellent video but I do think the Orcs have a real world historical analogue: The mongol horde.
I'm English and middle earth has always resonated with me it manages to convey the beauty of the countryside amazingly going on an adventure hiking up hills and fording steams its sharing the love I feel for my home for my world in a story of adventure and magic every time I read it I feel like a kid again playing by the river looking for trolls under bridges and when I'm out under the stars at night the elbereth gilthoniel poem always comes to mind LOTR has a magic to it that no book I have read since has replicated nor do I think one could.
Thank you for doing this. JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis are my two favorite authors, and I appreciate your take on Tolkien here.
Agreed. I never gave Lewis much of a chance because I personally found Narnia unappealing. However, I then discovered screwtape letters, space trilogy, and all of his non fiction. The guy is an intellectual titan
@@flappyturtlesnatch The Screwtape Letters is probably my all time favorite book. I place The Abolition of Man very high on that list also.
@@skrimshaw72 yes! I just listened to Abolition of Man about a week ago. Lewis was prescient
I just wanted to say that I am incredibly proud of you being able to open up about your PTSD in a video like this. It is a big step for you in your recovery.
The thing about the tower representing arrogance remind me of when in book 6 of the Aeneid, Aeneas’s father tells him that the Roman’s will spare the defeated and subdue the arrogant. And Aeneas and Aragorn are kinda similar too, they are tasked with a mission to lead their people to glory and stuff like that.
Everyone’s seeing Patrick Bateman, The Driver, and Tyler Durden for their masculinity. But can we all agree that Aragorn is the epitome of healthy masculinity?
Now THIS is a video we've all been waiting for.
indeed!
Good video on the history of LOTR, but Like Stories of Old has the best breakdown of Tolkien philosophy on RUclips. Touches on the catholic symbolism a lot more, which I think was a larger focus for LOTR than was mentioned in this video in terms of the philosophy.
Yeah, I think “What if alt Hist” is projecting allegory onto applicability a bit.
Agreed, their video is great!
6:50 Tolkien was actually inspired by Kalevala a lot. He started writing the story of Kullervo in English (from Kalevala) but stopped. The story of Turin Turambar is heavily borrowed from the story of Kullervo in Kalevala.
There might be some other subtle connections and inspiration but nothing as direct that I could prove.
Kalevala is somewhat disjointed indeed, it was gathered from different poems from different singers all across the country, and Lönnrot had to force them a bit to conform to the grand narrative, although they did have some connections.
Quenya, specifically, was based on Finnish. Sindarin is based on Welsh.
Who would be interested in even more autographs about the Professor. Copy to RUclips.
"Как Толкин придумал мир "Властелина колец" | ФАЙБ"
I thought that Tolkien said himself that he created his world around his love of linguistics, and so he could build his own language.? And also that he said it wasn’t an allegory, I may be wrong, so I’m really asking. (Please read your replies to me and keep hate to yourself, thank you.)
28:45 there is actually another book trilogy by another russian author named Nick Perumov, the trilogy is called "Ring of Darkness". It tells a post-LOTR story about a grand-grandson of Merry (iirc) travelling east with two dwarves and exploring the local culture, nations and meeting a few characters, one of whom is a great chief of east who then comes west, destroys local kingdoms and then challenges the Valar. I utterly simplified the plot but the core is something like that.
I wonder how you would feel about One Piece, being what a lot of people describe as a modern version of the Odyssey, and Berserk, one of the best stories ever
21:15 My guy, the bit about the hobbits and British Empire is complete BS. Tolkien was anti-imperialist and anti-British. "“I love England (not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth (grr!))” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, 1943. He valued England and medieval Anglo-Saxon culture which he he thought to be contrary to the ideas of Britishness or Americanism and of colonial empires. “I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, 1945.
Did you even read any Tolkien's letters when he speaks about the inspiration for LotR and about politics? He would be disgusted at the idea that British or American empires are some wonderful protectors of the world from communism or nazism. Tolkien considered liberalism the part of the problem as much as the other two. He would also admired a French, Spanish or German peasant living a simple, joyful, Catholic life much better than any puritan British colonial governor that brings "civilization" to other peoples.
Shire and Hobbits do represent rural England and a silmple life as a rejection of any will to power. But it does not represent British managing their colonies 'well' or being 'more reasonable" than other ethinicties. Hobbits do not 'control' the Ring. They resist it's lure beacuse they do not have big desires, either social or personal. Didn't you watch the movies as well that you cannot use the power of the Ring without being corrupted? Having an Empire is already a sign that you are corrupted. Tolkien also lamented that English is becoming most common language in the world.
"But seriously: I do find this Americo-cosmopolitanism very terrifying. Quâ mind and spirit, and neglecting the piddling fears of timid flesh which does not want to be shot or chopped by brutal and licentious soldiery (German or other), I am not really sure that its victory is going to be so much the better for the world as a whole and in the long run than the victory of Nazis. I don't suppose letters in are censored. But if they are, or not, I need to you hardly add that them's the sentiments of a good many folk - and no indication of lack of patriotism. For I love England (not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth (grr!)), and if I was of military age, I should, I fancy, be grousing away in a fighting service, and willing to go on to the bitter end - always hoping that things may turn out better for England than they look like doing." ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 53.
The adventures of the hobbits have nothing to do with English peasants going to their colonies and getting powerful through ruling others. They symbolize life and it's struggles, and the value of not being greedy for money, power etc. You are literally having a post-modernist approach to Tolkien's works - projecting your own ideas on it.
"And nothing can really amend my grief that you, my best beloved, have any connexion with it. My sentiments are more or less those that Frodo would have had if he discovered some Hobbits learning to ride Nazgûl-birds, 'for the liberation of the Shire'. Though in this case, as I know nothing about British or American imperialism in the Far East that does not fill me with regret and disgust, I am afraid I am not even supported by a glimmer of patriotism in this remaining war. I would not subscribe a penny to it, let alone a son, were I a free man." ~ J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 100.
My thoughts exactly
I think some people read too much into the details - the overall theme is treat everyone with respect - everyone has a part to play, and it's not clear what that might be until the time comes.
For most of the story Gollum could have been killed by various members of the company and their allies, but a number of times it is only by Frodo's kindness he is spared.
And then right at the end when the ring gets the better of Frodo, it is Gollum who saves they day - admittadly with his selfish and careless actions, but if he wasn't there he wouldn't have saved Frodo, and Middle Earth, from the ring.
So don't look down on those you percieve as lesser than you, treat them with grace and respect as they might not be what they seem, or you think, and one day they might be important, you never know how things might work out.
Lord Of The Rings might be the last truly great work of literature (heck, maybe even art period) that Western Civilization has created. People will still be reading LOTR (and Tolkien's other works) in 500 years, something I can't say about anything that has come out since, with the possible exception of Harry Potter.
Or Dune...
Or Pratchett's disc world novels, or Ende's Infinite Story. Or Momo.
There are two more Eastern Roman/Bysantium comparisons which could be made. The first one are the Beacons of Gondor - the bysantines actually had such a system. The second one is the Arab siege of Constantinople 717/718 where the bulgarians, primarily a cavalry army, came from the north east to attack the besieging army. Great video, keep it up! 😊
The Bulgarians were also a horde at the time, I wouldn't consider it a valid comparison
Its more like the sieges of Vienna by the Ottoman Hordes, which were rescued by a German/Polish army led by von Lothringen and assisted by Sobieski
I wonder how ancient societies would have thought of The Lord of the Rings like the Greeks and Romans
This video was a welcome surprise! I'm technically still a teenager (19) and I'm equally as obsessed LOTR! Tolkien's works had and always will have a profound impact on my life. From the rich history to the deep, thought provoking themes, to the beautiful prose of the books and the masterful film adaptations of them (well, for LOTR anyway lol Rings of Power doesn't even exist in my eyes!). And you did a pretty good and interesting interpretation of them! I hope you do more videos like this at some point!
I would describe this video as you having a pre-existing view of LOTR and constructing an argument to support that view, rather than researching and learning about the context behind LOTR and then presenting what you learned.
Yes, Sauron was obviously evil, but the protagonists of Tolkien's world leave a lot to be desired. Gondor was founded on lands violently conquered by Numenoreans, a race of seven foot tall super humans granted longer life, knowledge and vitality by the "gods" as a reward for their faithful alliance with an arrogant tribe of elves. The un-blessed men of Middle-Earth had no chance against their power and never asked to be subjugated by Isildur and his descendants. The poor Men of middle-earth have always been left to face a fearful world on their own, abandoned from the very outset by Eru Illuvatar and his godlike servants. The firstborn elves were gifted by Illuvatar with immortality and were made spiritually and physically greater than Men. They were welcomed into the land of the gods, where they lived in beauty, wisdom and protection. Men on the other hand were left alone in fear and ignorance when they first awoke, abandoned by God until found by the Devil himself, who tortured, deceived and corrupted them, twisting some of them into the vile race of Orcs. They were made fragile and suffered illness and injury. In the ages that followed Elves remained in communion with the gods and understood the divine plan. Men on the other hand were never granted such knowledge and lived in constant fear of death. Is it any wonder that Sauron and his promise of an ordered industrialized world where Men ruled above all appealed to the fearful and oppressed Men of the East. Why should Men remain loyal to Illuvatar when He never showed them love in the first place?
The thing with the Kalevala is that it's a collection of folk stories and myths from across Finland. It's similar to the national epic of Iran in that way
It is impossible to put into words how much I appreciate this piece. It is just f'ing brilliant. I may be bias growing up with these works. I read the full series of books 7x as a teen/young adult. The movies were extremely good too putting the books to visual form like few have done.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places. But still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands, love is now mingled with grief, it still grows, perhaps the greater.” -Tolkien
4:12
"the closest english equivalent, Beowulf is literally set in Scandinavia and never even mentions the country of England."
The Lord of the Rings:
adopts themes from Norse and Finns and never mentions England :D
I think the central moral lesson of Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit is that the humble smallfolk are the ones who will save the world. The high and mighty fall to their pride and ambition. Melkor "the mightiest of all the dwellers of Eä" antagonized the rest of the universe until he was bound and banished. Feanor doomed his people to endless war, Ar-Pharazon rebelled against the valar and doomed his civilization. And when the time came, a tiny hobbit resisted the temptation of the one ring long enough to cast it back into its foundry. Goodness is more important than Greatness.
Ar-Pharazon didn't even need Sauron's influence to turn evil. He took his predecessor's daughter and throne by force and Sauron knew that he could happily surrender to him, the victor would soon be wax in his hands.
This video of Whatifalthist could not have come to me at a more favourable time. Just in the following weeks after the video released, they are finally shown again in the theaters near to me, and it will be the first time for me to see them on the big screen. (However, I have seen them on my home TV/DVD about a dozen times, and I have read the books, and Silmarillion and other books). Thus, it serves as a great introduction to the movie series I am going to watch again. It really helped to make some sense of the themes of the series, even if I actually had myself come to the same interpretations about the meaning of the story as Rudyard has, just looking at the source text.
Stalin was just an empty vessel for historical progress from his POV. It's the Jungian thing where a person doesn't have an idea but the idea has that person.
10/10 video. One of you're best. You need to put together and update a reading list for us to take recommendations from.
Start following the community tab he will start posting reading rec weekly
@@garrettjohnson343 I saw that post but I think it would be a good idea to have a google doc or something to have everything in one place.
❤ Korpiklaani. My wife and I saw them in 2018 for our anniversary. I got to sit at the bar with their bassist Jarko. He told me the meaning and translation of many of their Finnish language songs. Probably helped my wife was in a corset and bouncing for Cain most of the night lol
Huge Tolkien and LotR fan, also huge fan of your channel. This feels like a very special gift from you.
It's rare for me to insta click on a video and be excited for it and any new Whatifalthist vid gets me excited, but Whatifalthist AND LotR is like a dream come true.
I first read Tolkien as a kid in the late 60s (not all the people who watch and like your channel are Gen-Z or millennials) and he is for me what I believe Homer, Virgil, Malory and Dante were for their respective civilizations. Good to see you have the same inclination, and great video on the subject.
Really disagree with the sexual imagery metaphor with the tower of Sauron. Tolkien strived to have his masterpiece devoid of metaphor.
Kalevala and Finnish (And Karelian) mythology is a super interesting beast in and of itself. As you mentioned, there's very little actual remains of North Germanic stories, but the full collection of Finnish mythological songs includes 100,000 (That's ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND) recorded and published songs, along with 60,000 that remain unpublished. Hence why Kalevala feels a bit disjointed at times, as there was no single coherent narrative, instead the editor took the parts they deemed the most interesting and related enough, sprinkled it with a bit of their own connective writing, and forged a story out of something that was originally a collection of separate mythological legends.
Really interesting stuff, and especially given how much material there is available, I have to admit that I'm super pissed and salty that people seem to dumbly drool over the boring and derivative Norse mythology when something so vast and unique exists right next door :(
The Rohirrim are transparently based on the Anglo-Saxons. The Rohirric language is literally Anglo-Saxon, as Prof. Tolkien taught it at Oxford. Tolkien felt that the worst thing to ever happen to England was the Norman conquest, and figured that if only the Anglo-Saxons had made use of heavy cavalry, they could have repelled William's invasion at Hastings. Thus, the Rohirrim were born: Anglo-Saxons who could have defeated the Normans
If you miss the main Christian themes in the LOTR you miss 99% of the story
New whatifalthist! You are really pumping out great content man
I always thought Gondor also stood for France, Mordor for Germany and Minas Ithil turned into Minas Morgul for Alsace Lorraine which switched hands from Germany(well HRE) to France, back to Germany and back to France.
I’m going to defend Russia…hahaha… let’s see it is one of the greatest trolling events ever that they actually side with Sauron. Secondly, where do you get that they don’t respect intelectual rights, on a curious note and to be fair, why on earth have all read and know of Orwell and Huxley and as great sages but not Zamyatin. Even Orwell who was the second hand copy said Huxley must have copied and he denied it, so no respect for intelectual influence in this case at least from two AngloSaxon writers about their Russian influence in We. Other than this side note great video as ever!
Sauron isn't actually directly Satan, but an important follower of his, Morgoth. Morgoth wanted to spite Eru Iluvitar by making his creations fail and Sauron wanted to make a perfect world by imposing his greater intellect via taking away free will. This isn't mentioned in TLOR and he does enough Satan like things to work as him, though.
Orcs are also corrupted Elves via suffering and hateful breeding or something like that.
I wish you could do this to the world of avatar the last airbender
Long live firelord Ozai!
Hail to the Phoenix King! The Phoenix Empire!
Sauron is not the devil in the lord of the rings.
There has been quite a lot of discourse about this topic, but sauron is decidedly not supposed to be Lucifer, despite being portrayed as such in the films.
Melkor, or morgoth, the first dark lord, is very much so a satanic figure, with his fall from grace at the creation of the world, being the source of all evil and the personification of malice.
Sauron however is not this being, and is rather presented as someone who yes, fell from grace, but had numerous opportunities to go back to the light.
He is more akin to a Loki type figure, someone who, despite his past wrongdoings, continued to work with the good guys until his ultimate betrayel set them apart.
For sauron, he was almost pardoned of his last crimes by the end of the first age, and later on went to work with the elves on the constructions of the rings, and afterwards work with the men of numenour, betraying both of them, with his final betrayel at numenor being what set him as the great enemy of the west and disfiguring him forever, whereas Loki lived amongst the aesir despite constantly feuding with them and hurting them, until eventually he committed a sin which he couldn't walk away from, that being killing balder, which resulted in him being disfigured and locked away until the end times, when he'll be set free and fight against the aesir in Ragnarok.
Also, sauron is not an incorporeal spirit of evil.
Sauron has a body, with nine fingers on it.
He can no longer shapeshift into beautiful forms and trick others, he can no longer be perceived as good, as he lost all shreds of credibility in the fall of numenor.
And the eye of sauron is not a giant vagina.
Barad dur is not meant to be a singular massive tower with a flaming eye on top, it is a massive fortress, yes, but not a singular tower any more than minas tirith is a singular tower, and the flaming eye is merely a later invention.
The eye of sauron, last time I checked, was supposed to be painted over barad dur, as a symbol of sauron being all knowing, with nothing escaping his gaze.
Peter Jackson decided to make that symbolism into an actual feature, by making that symbolic eye into an actual eye and taking away sauron's body.
While a lot of this analysis is centered around looking at the mythological origins of the lord of the rings, a lot of what you said here is based more on fanfiction elements that were introduced by peter Jackson and never conceived by Tolkien himself.
While it's appreciated that you delve into the lord of the rings, perhaps rather than just reading the things Tolkien may have read, it's also important to read what Tolkien himself had to say, and what the scholarship around those works have to say.
Many have studied the themes, origins and elements present in the lord of the rings and the wider legendarium, and I'd suggest giving those a read if you want to truly delve into it's deeper meaning
17:35 After stalins first wife died, he said, "Any love I had for the human race died with her" just adding to his point of stalin being pure evil he literally said I have no love in my heart for my fellow man.
He literally got isekai'd to Earth and wrote a bunch of successful books chronicling the history and heroes of the world he came from and you cannot convince me otherwise.
This guy has pretty interesting ideas... but oh god, all of this 'we anglo/americans are the virtuous/smart/mighty, the rest of the world is corrupt/evil' is SO exhausting to everyone else
Yeah it wouldn't be a whatifalthis video if he didn't start harping on about those gosh darn Communazis.
I feel like I'm watching the History Channel but for Zoomers.
Feel slightly bad doing this but one of my favourite videos on youtube, is a video by someone called Empire of the mind, about "The Wanderer" (which is an old anglo saxon poem which tolkien loved / is a clear inspiration for the LoTR).
It is a fantastical video which Id recommend for anyone who loves LoTR.
Anyways back to watching whatifalthists video :D
I've enjoyed many of your predictive and analytical takes on history but must admit I enjoyed this video more than any other.
This is the best 10,000-foot survey of Tolkien's value, intent, and accomplishments that I have read. Well done.
You are correct about LOTR being THE most loved and recognized work of western literature. As an imaginative work, it cannot be judged in the same way as the Bible or even Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, but its significance for how we view ourselves and its premier position in modern western fiction cannot be argued.
That hideous strength by Lewis is worth reading for anyone who enjoyed this video
The LotR is the most circulated book of the second millennium.
The Bible is the most circulated book of the first millennium.
Let that sink in.
LotR is almost as popular as the fricking bible.
You align Aragon to Celtic mythology, based on the similarities to King Arthur, and this is certainly what Tolkien would have thought. However, he may have accidentally drew these theme's from Alanic indo-iranian mythology, if you follow the arguments of From Scythia to Camelot, which I think is an interesting consideration as the Alan's would themselves be culturally very similar to the Rohan, and a people destroyed by the westward expansion of the East
The funny thing is.
LOTR is just the retelling of Celtic, Scandinavian, and Roman mythologies. If you understand those mythologies you would know.
Terrible video. You are viewing this from your liberal perspective.
Aye.
Another thing to add, Saturn is considered the ‘Lord of the Rings’ and was known in Near Eastern lands as EL, or ILLAH(Allah) which is usually symbolized by a black cube or of course, Rings and it’s hexagon or great swirling eye.
5:28 I have always viewed the "Undying Lands" as some kind of symbolism of death, paradise or heaven, reunion with God or another higher being. Ascending spiritually, in some manner.
But certainty elves have been influenced by hunter-gatherers. No coincidence that Lothlorien is a forest, and elves are great archers.
Elves are probably closest to representing a glorified version of indigenous peoples.
@@appa609Wood elves, yes. Rest of the elves, not so much.
The Noldor were industrious city-builders and legendary smiths for example.
I think Russians just like sarcasm and twisted narratives for fun. Most Russians I know treat Tolkien's work as one of the best, par to their Tolstoi and such
18:09 bro wtf
11:36 This ONE slide requires it's own HOUR long video!!!! lmao
Let’s not forget the time when SpongeBob had his soul scammed away from him by Mr. Krabs for 62 cents.
I have found the stolen comment, thank you for spreading the news
Watching this channel from its early days, while I don't always agree with his takes, I feel a sort of kinship with this dude now. The content has just been so good lately.