To people watching the inquiry, the level of incompetence of POL "managers" looks really bad. As an ex Civil Servant I would suggest that this is partly due to the CS giving people overinflated job titles, so they can slot them into a higher salary band. To pay them salaries equivalent to the private sector. So you end up with a staffing structure that is very top heavy with "managers", but with nobody actually managing the managers.
Really good points. I think you'll like part 4 (just uploading) as it contains some material on systems of authority, which I think is the problem you are describing - too many folk in positions of authority causing the organisation to be top heavy as you describe.
POLs cover up was even worse than you suggested. The inquiry has shown that about three sub postmasters were acquited by juries but that POL continued to claim that they had won all their cases which showed the Horizon system was, as they claimed, reliable.
@@PaulDuckett Thanks for the thanks. Interestingly there is an article in today's Times in which several eminent barristers seem to be taking the view that some Crown Court Judges failed in their duty to probe POLs 'evidence' on Horizen and let down the sub postmasters althugh the former Lady Chief Justice did say some time ago that the judges were not to blame. It is the case that some of those making the criticism are representing subpostmaters at the inquiry so the view may not be totally unbiased. Don't know how this might fit with your arguments but maybe worth thinking about. Of couse the w/com 24 July when Gareth Jenkins of Fujitso is appearing (under compulsion) although POLs failure to instruct him asa to the duties of an expert witness was disgraceful so he may not be completely to blame.
The TV drama was good at storytelling but, inevitably, simplified matters. Worth a read for more detail is Nick Wallis' The Great Post Office Scandal. Wallis has been with the unfolding story from the early days. Also worth following up is Computer Weekly, a UK trade publication which started following and reporting on the matter in 2009.
Yes, I absolutely agree. Though it was great that the TV drama captured the public's attention, it did simplify things. They turned it into a classic villains vs heros story and it much more complex than that. So, I agree, always worth getting as close as we can to the source material.
they all got one thing in common .they seem to know nothing at all.all got the right memory loss for the right questions.yet they all been given boneses and accepted them for knowing so much for services to the P.O.Titles honors and positions in other departments .
The description "Psychology, Plagiarism, and the Post Office Scandal Part 3" suggests a multifaceted and intriguing exploration. The inclusion of psychology implies an examination of the human mind and behavior, possibly linking it to the context of plagiarism and the Post Office scandal. The use of "Part 3" indicates a series, suggesting a comprehensive coverage of the topic. It sparks curiosity about the connections between psychology, plagiarism, and a scandal involving the Post Office, promising a compelling narrative that delves into complex aspects of human behavior and societal issues.
Oh my gosh, I'm now worried that part 4 will disappoint you. I did my best and hope it captures teh complexity you are after :) It's just uploading and should be available in the next hour or two (it's 4K so is taking an age to load up on youtube). And, thanks for sticking with me so far :)
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I thought you were going to talk about the use of the term 'sub' in terms of the psychology of the Post Office.....did they treat them because they thought of them as Sub- human and untrustworthy ( guilty until proven innocent). The use of the term Negroid was shocking but wasn't I don't think in the drama. Then the award of Paula Vennell of the CBE - 'of the British Empire' - is an anachronism, part of the UK historical system where institutions are all powerful and cannot be criticised. Indeed the POL had powers of prosecution that meant the 'subbies' weren't given the same protection as other legal defendants. Plus psychology was used by the prosecution legal team, whereby they accused them of theft by default (despite no evidence of theft) knowing they would plead guilty of the lesser crime of 'False Accounting. Not sure what Plagiarism has to do with this story?......I presume part 4 will reveal all. But the title of earlier videos suggest it would be discussed and it hasn't so far (Oh, you tease!!)....the psychology of RUclips!! 👍
Really interesting take on things. Sub is the term use by the post office. I kind of mention something a bit like that in part 4 (which is just uploading ... it's in 4K so takes a while!). Yep, no mention of negroid in the drama. You make a really good point about the psychology of plea bargaining. I hadn't thought of that. Nice work. And, yep, I get to plagiarism in part 4 .... which is going to be up in about an hour from me posting this. Thanks for sticking with this so far :)
Hi, sorry. yes, I can be a bit long winded sometimes ... us academics do have a tendency to do that. Sometimes it is useful to take our time getting to a place, but I get that it's also frustrating when you've got other stuff to do. Most of my videos are much shorter and I don't do many that come in a series, but I thought I might get away with it for this one given that the scandal has been going on for so long, ... my longwindedness might appear as concise in comparison :)
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To people watching the inquiry, the level of incompetence of POL "managers" looks really bad. As an ex Civil Servant I would suggest that this is partly due to the CS giving people overinflated job titles, so they can slot them into a higher salary band. To pay them salaries equivalent to the private sector. So you end up with a staffing structure that is very top heavy with "managers", but with nobody actually managing the managers.
Over inflated titles applies to many British companies not just the CS.
In the private sector impressive sounding job titles are often given to people, to impress the customers they interact with. @@ukdave57
Really good points. I think you'll like part 4 (just uploading) as it contains some material on systems of authority, which I think is the problem you are describing - too many folk in positions of authority causing the organisation to be top heavy as you describe.
POLs cover up was even worse than you suggested. The inquiry has shown that about three sub postmasters were acquited by juries but that POL continued to claim that they had won all their cases which showed the Horizon system was, as they claimed, reliable.
Yep, you are spot on. I didn't know that. What a bottomless pit of terribleness. I'm sure there is worst yet to uncover.
@@PaulDuckett Thanks for the thanks. Interestingly there is an article in today's Times in which several eminent barristers seem to be taking the view that some Crown Court Judges failed in their duty to probe POLs 'evidence' on Horizen and let down the sub postmasters althugh the former Lady Chief Justice did say some time ago that the judges were not to blame. It is the case that some of those making the criticism are representing subpostmaters at the inquiry so the view may not be totally unbiased. Don't know how this might fit with your arguments but maybe worth thinking about. Of couse the w/com 24 July when Gareth Jenkins of Fujitso is appearing (under compulsion) although POLs failure to instruct him asa to the duties of an expert witness was disgraceful so he may not be completely to blame.
@@Dav1Gv Thanks mate, Hadn't seen that. It's a really good point and very much worth thinking about :)
Every new leaf unturned reveals even more corruption.
The TV drama was good at storytelling but, inevitably, simplified matters. Worth a read for more detail is Nick Wallis' The Great Post Office Scandal. Wallis has been with the unfolding story from the early days. Also worth following up is Computer Weekly, a UK trade publication which started following and reporting on the matter in 2009.
Yes, I absolutely agree. Though it was great that the TV drama captured the public's attention, it did simplify things. They turned it into a classic villains vs heros story and it much more complex than that. So, I agree, always worth getting as close as we can to the source material.
We now need a similar enquiry in to the directorate, management and administration of the NHS!
Sounds a most excellent suggesting Nick :)
p
they all got one thing in common .they seem to know nothing at all.all got the right memory loss for the right questions.yet they all been given boneses and accepted them for knowing so much for services to the P.O.Titles honors and positions in other departments .
Yep ... selective amnesia
The description "Psychology, Plagiarism, and the Post Office Scandal Part 3" suggests a multifaceted and intriguing exploration. The inclusion of psychology implies an examination of the human mind and behavior, possibly linking it to the context of plagiarism and the Post Office scandal. The use of "Part 3" indicates a series, suggesting a comprehensive coverage of the topic. It sparks curiosity about the connections between psychology, plagiarism, and a scandal involving the Post Office, promising a compelling narrative that delves into complex aspects of human behavior and societal issues.
Oh my gosh, I'm now worried that part 4 will disappoint you. I did my best and hope it captures teh complexity you are after :) It's just uploading and should be available in the next hour or two (it's 4K so is taking an age to load up on youtube). And, thanks for sticking with me so far :)
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OMG - the ethnic ID's!
Yep, quite a shocker!
I thought you were going to talk about the use of the term 'sub' in terms of the psychology of the Post Office.....did they treat them because they thought of them as Sub- human and untrustworthy ( guilty until proven innocent).
The use of the term Negroid was shocking but wasn't I don't think in the drama.
Then the award of Paula Vennell of the CBE - 'of the British Empire' - is an anachronism, part of the UK historical system where institutions are all powerful and cannot be criticised. Indeed the POL had powers of prosecution that meant the 'subbies' weren't given the same protection as other legal defendants.
Plus psychology was used by the prosecution legal team, whereby they accused them of theft by default (despite no evidence of theft) knowing they would plead guilty of the lesser crime of 'False Accounting.
Not sure what Plagiarism has to do with this story?......I presume part 4 will reveal all. But the title of earlier videos suggest it would be discussed and it hasn't so far (Oh, you tease!!)....the psychology of RUclips!! 👍
Really interesting take on things. Sub is the term use by the post office. I kind of mention something a bit like that in part 4 (which is just uploading ... it's in 4K so takes a while!). Yep, no mention of negroid in the drama.
You make a really good point about the psychology of plea bargaining. I hadn't thought of that. Nice work.
And, yep, I get to plagiarism in part 4 .... which is going to be up in about an hour from me posting this. Thanks for sticking with this so far :)
A very long-winded discussion, makes me angry almost as much as wathing the TV program. Please Paul, get to the point of your talk !!!!
Hi, sorry. yes, I can be a bit long winded sometimes ... us academics do have a tendency to do that. Sometimes it is useful to take our time getting to a place, but I get that it's also frustrating when you've got other stuff to do. Most of my videos are much shorter and I don't do many that come in a series, but I thought I might get away with it for this one given that the scandal has been going on for so long, ... my longwindedness might appear as concise in comparison :)
@@PaulDuckett i not mind it twice as long to ge to the truth .what ever it takes .we seen swift justice in courts .look what they did for 20 years .
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I am always suspicious of anyone that starts with "hello friend".