As a Glasses for over 20 years, here is my view. Strength comes primarily from glass type, weight, and weave, i.e. 4oz S, or 6oz Direct size, or Volan etc... Once a board is laminated, since laminating resin has no surfacing agent (aka wax) it’s unsandable. In order to make it sandable, a “hot coat” is applied. The hot coat fills the weave, bonds with the laminating resin, and creates a sandable surface. FOR THE MOST PART, this will seal the board, however, once fin systems and leash cups are installed, and sanding takes place, all kinds of anomalies can show up, For example, “pin-airs” in the over lap, or slightly sanding into the glass around the fins, nose, hard edge or rails, areas where resin easily runs off. These slight sand through’s will become brown over time, as they slowly allow water to seep in. Anyway, a sanded hot coat, is known as a “Sand Only”. In order to minimize the types of “sand through’s” I mentioned above, some shops will offer a “basted” sand only, where we will baste the rails, nose, hard edge, around the fins, and pre-sanded laps in order to provide extra resin to the areas, thus minimizing sand-throughs. Any remaining small sand-through’s can be covered with spray lacquer, THEORETICALLY, this is supposed to prevent that browning. A “Gloss Coat” aka “Seal Coat” is a thin coat of resin meant to re-seal the board after its been rough sanded. Gloss coats can be finish sanded and sold as a “Sanded Gloss”, or then are completely rubbed out as a “polish”. Note: Every time you add resin, you add weight, you do NOT add strength, you also sand some of that weight off, you also seal the board better. Strength is chosen by glass selection, and resin selection, (iso, polyester, epoxy). Important: Their are too many nuances to glassing, to get into it in depth here, this is just a general understanding. Last thing: Sanding a surfboard is an under appreciated art, it is vary difficult to sand a clear substance, an immeasurable amount, without sanding into glass. All’s good, all’s good, all’s good, DAMN I sanded through! That’s the life of your local sander...✌🏽
Gloss coat a board. Wax, buff and polish it. Throw/spill water on it. Wow, it does slip way more than on a sand finish. "Better sliding on the wave." If I add 7-8 ounces on deck and 7-8 ounces on the bottom, it is equals to 14-16 ounces on a 6 to 7footer. Sand the gloss coat, from 220-2000 grit, it won't add the 14-16 ounces since some ounces are removed from it.
gloss coat equals less drag resistance which in turn equals more speed. a sanded finnish has micro abrasions that will actualy slow you down. when we build speed boats we polish the hell out of the hull. we see a difference in top speed and acceleration numbers
Reads like you didn't do an actual scientific comparison between a sanded hull and a gloss hull...and since surfboards dont have an engine, you can't really compare them to speedboats. Too much weight on a surfboard can make the difference in paddling & wave count. Also, as long as the micro-abrassions on a sanded finish are all lengthwise, there's less suction created between the hull and water (similar to a snowboard base).
I respecfuly disagree. Dimples, etc decrease drag. This because turbulent boundary layers are more resistant to separation, and causing the boundary layer to become turbulent at the lower Reynolds Number causes the separation on the surfboard bottom to be delayed which in turn reduces overall drag, therefore increases speed and flow.
I used to always get gloss coats because I thought it earned more money for the sander at the factory - until the sander at the factory told me, "I hate doing your boards because I have to sand and polish them more." (Wasn't your sander Bill) I miss watching Ted Robinson ride your boards - best performance long boards in the world -
Ha, that's funny. Best intentions! Funny you should mention Ted... He's still riding our boards -- just came in yesterday and got himself a new Redline11.
@@stewartsurfboards4837 😀Ted is one of the greatest California surfers of his (our) generation - he’s surfing somewhere other than here though, and I miss being jealous of how good he is surfing in the line-up
I disagree. I think the gloss coat does add strength and durability to the board. I don't give a rats ass what team riders do. That is always the excuse for corporations to force bad boards onto the public. First off, team riders do not get to decide what boards they ride. They are going to ride whatever the manufacturers want to push on the public. Secondly, team riders are given new boards all the time, so they don't care about durability. Lastly, the real reason manufacturers want us to accept the sand finish is because it greatly reduces their labor and materials cost. Manufacturers are struggling to make a profit these days, with there being so much competition and razor thin profit margins. Think about it, a gloss finish is an additional layer of glass (hot coat resin finish) that has to be added, requiring additional labor and materials; and it has to be buffed and polished, again requiring additional labor and materials. Seventy-five dollars for a gloss finish is cheap, considering the added strength and durability you get. One pound of additional weight and any sacrifice in performance is not going to make a big deal. The average surfer would not notice any difference.
bro, I dont know if manufactures really promote sand finish to reduce they costs (I make my own boards or a friend of mine), but the fact is the gloss coat dont add any signifcant strenght. Read about how composites work
Hi Bob. We have an stock inventory full of both gloss/polish and sanded finish boards, we try to advise the customer base on the benefits of each type of finish. Our team riders do have the freedom of choosing two boards of any style with whatever finish they prefer most, with their experience and skill level far beyond the average surfer they continuously order sand finish. We have two glass shops that work on our boards, Chelu's and Waterman's, both of these shops are responsible for glassing specific models of our surfboard line, they are outsourced and do amazing work on our boards, both sand and gloss/polish finishes. If you came by our shop and talked to someone in the manufacturing process I think you would have a better idea of the production on these boards and our goal for the customer!
By the way a gloss coat doesn't have any fiberglass in it, and it does not provide any strength. It is more of an clear coat and is visually appealing. If you like your board glossed our airbrusher prefers them over sand because it makes his art work look awesome!
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As a Glasses for over 20 years, here is my view. Strength comes primarily from glass type, weight, and weave, i.e. 4oz S, or 6oz Direct size, or Volan etc... Once a board is laminated, since laminating resin has no surfacing agent (aka wax) it’s unsandable. In order to make it sandable, a “hot coat” is applied. The hot coat fills the weave, bonds with the laminating resin, and creates a sandable surface. FOR THE MOST PART, this will seal the board, however, once fin systems and leash cups are installed, and sanding takes place, all kinds of anomalies can show up, For example, “pin-airs” in the over lap, or slightly sanding into the glass around the fins, nose, hard edge or rails, areas where resin easily runs off. These slight sand through’s will become brown over time, as they slowly allow water to seep in. Anyway, a sanded hot coat, is known as a “Sand Only”. In order to minimize the types of “sand through’s” I mentioned above, some shops will offer a “basted” sand only, where we will baste the rails, nose, hard edge, around the fins, and pre-sanded laps in order to provide extra resin to the areas, thus minimizing sand-throughs. Any remaining small sand-through’s can be covered with spray lacquer, THEORETICALLY, this is supposed to prevent that browning. A “Gloss Coat” aka “Seal Coat” is a thin coat of resin meant to re-seal the board after its been rough sanded. Gloss coats can be finish sanded and sold as a “Sanded Gloss”, or then are completely rubbed out as a “polish”. Note: Every time you add resin, you add weight, you do NOT add strength, you also sand some of that weight off, you also seal the board better. Strength is chosen by glass selection, and resin selection, (iso, polyester, epoxy). Important: Their are too many nuances to glassing, to get into it in depth here, this is just a general understanding. Last thing: Sanding a surfboard is an under appreciated art, it is vary difficult to sand a clear substance, an immeasurable amount, without sanding into glass. All’s good, all’s good, all’s good, DAMN I sanded through! That’s the life of your local sander...✌🏽
Gloss coat a board. Wax, buff and polish it. Throw/spill water on it. Wow, it does slip way more than on a sand finish. "Better sliding on the wave." If I add 7-8 ounces on deck and 7-8 ounces on the bottom, it is equals to 14-16 ounces on a 6 to 7footer. Sand the gloss coat, from 220-2000 grit, it won't add the 14-16 ounces since some ounces are removed from it.
How do you do a ding repair on a gloss coat to stay glossy?
gloss coat equals less drag resistance which in turn equals more speed. a sanded finnish has micro abrasions that will actualy slow you down. when we build speed boats we polish the hell out of the hull. we see a difference in top speed and acceleration numbers
Reads like you didn't do an actual scientific comparison between a sanded hull and a gloss hull...and since surfboards dont have an engine, you can't really compare them to speedboats. Too much weight on a surfboard can make the difference in paddling & wave count. Also, as long as the micro-abrassions on a sanded finish are all lengthwise, there's less suction created between the hull and water (similar to a snowboard base).
I respecfuly disagree. Dimples, etc decrease drag. This because turbulent boundary layers are more resistant to separation, and causing the boundary layer to become turbulent at the lower Reynolds Number causes the separation on the surfboard bottom to be delayed which in turn reduces overall drag, therefore increases speed and flow.
I used to always get gloss coats because I thought it earned more money for the sander at the factory - until the sander at the factory told me, "I hate doing your boards because I have to sand and polish them more." (Wasn't your sander Bill) I miss watching Ted Robinson ride your boards - best performance long boards in the world -
Ha, that's funny. Best intentions! Funny you should mention Ted... He's still riding our boards -- just came in yesterday and got himself a new Redline11.
@@stewartsurfboards4837 😀Ted is one of the greatest California surfers of his (our) generation - he’s surfing somewhere other than here though, and I miss being jealous of how good he is surfing in the line-up
I disagree. I think the gloss coat does add strength and durability to the board. I don't give a rats ass what team riders do. That is always the excuse for corporations to force bad boards onto the public. First off, team riders do not get to decide what boards they ride. They are going to ride whatever the manufacturers want to push on the public. Secondly, team riders are given new boards all the time, so they don't care about durability. Lastly, the real reason manufacturers want us to accept the sand finish is because it greatly reduces their labor and materials cost. Manufacturers are struggling to make a profit these days, with there being so much competition and razor thin profit margins. Think about it, a gloss finish is an additional layer of glass (hot coat resin finish) that has to be added, requiring additional labor and materials; and it has to be buffed and polished, again requiring additional labor and materials. Seventy-five dollars for a gloss finish is cheap, considering the added strength and durability you get. One pound of additional weight and any sacrifice in performance is not going to make a big deal. The average surfer would not notice any difference.
bro, I dont know if manufactures really promote sand finish to reduce they costs (I make my own boards or a friend of mine), but the fact is the gloss coat dont add any signifcant strenght. Read about how composites work
Hi Bob. We have an stock inventory full of both gloss/polish and sanded finish boards, we try to advise the customer base on the benefits of each type of finish. Our team riders do have the freedom of choosing two boards of any style with whatever finish they prefer most, with their experience and skill level far beyond the average surfer they continuously order sand finish. We have two glass shops that work on our boards, Chelu's and Waterman's, both of these shops are responsible for glassing specific models of our surfboard line, they are outsourced and do amazing work on our boards, both sand and gloss/polish finishes. If you came by our shop and talked to someone in the manufacturing process I think you would have a better idea of the production on these boards and our goal for the customer!
By the way a gloss coat doesn't have any fiberglass in it, and it does not provide any strength. It is more of an clear coat and is visually appealing. If you like your board glossed our airbrusher prefers them over sand because it makes his art work look awesome!
What about the gloss coat filling up all the pores from the sand finish and therefore reducing water uptake over time?