While there are niche genres, 99% of games depend on gameplay to be playable. Good graphics, good story, lots of content, amazing soundtrack, those things won't make a game with horrid GamePlay playable. Not for most people. This is why I prioritize gameplay first and foremost.
@@salty_3k506 seriously. Minecraft has 140 million active players a month! I love that game immensely and I still can't honestly say it looks amazing. players just *don't care* because no other game offers as much creative freedom as Minecraft does, so they either get used to it or they develop/install resource packs and shaders. the gaming industry has long pretended graphics are *the* thing players care about most because it's really what *investors* care about most. people with profits on the line want a sense of a game's quality without ever actually interacting with it, so......
The real core of the issue isn't that AAA game publishers don't know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing. Their goal isn't to make better games. Their goal is to report higher profits to their shareholders than they did last year, and the broken cycle as it currently exists is what allows them to do that... for now. It's not sustainable, but it's making them money _now,_ and that's their only actual concern.
Please let me upvote this more than once. The corporate greed for infinite growth is killing creativity _now_ and in the long run is _unsustainable_ anyway. Gotta keep those shareholders happy amiright
This is why you don't go public if you're successful Video game company. You live off the sales of your games That way you have responsibility and you need to make quality stuff to keep the lights on. The problem is the shareholders have too much power in These Video game publishers. If you need funding you go to the bank or you go and mortgage your house A.k.a. The Developers of cuphead Mortgage their house to fund cuphead Taking a big risk.
The sad thing is that publically traded companies are *legally* required to make as much profit as possible, so even if they wanted to, they couldn't stop what they're doing.
I think what part of the community means when they say they want "worse graphics" is that the game studio shouldn't spend 50% of their budget on it and instead focus on the gameplay.
Even further than that. We don't want this never ending climb of betterer graphics as it forces everyone to keep upgrading consoles and pc's. We have more than enough power in existing equipment. Stop bumping up textures and resolutions and just focus on unique and innovative games as well as established gamestyles. A 10x more pretty game doesn't make it one iota more fun.
@@joshelguapo5563 Uh, do you have any numbers to back up that assertion? AAA companies treat graphics like it is a #1 seller but I'm pretty sure the general gaming audience wants fun and smooth. It is the same thing with TV resolution, only a tiny fragment of the consumer base actually wants 4K tv's. 1080p is still a sweet spot as the hardware required to display (tv's) or render (CPU's/Video Cards) is far more attainable than trying to display 4K content.
another reason I especially agree with the "worse graphics" part is that less intense graphics means the game runs better. as someone with a rather old computer this is a godsend for me, as I can't run a lot of modern games.
I think the thing is when people see "worse" graphics they aren't thinking like actually worse, they're thinking "not your playstation exclusive for graphics snobs" levels of realism and maybe something with a more stylized look, that may not have all the bloom and vignettes and anti aliasing and stuff, but looks charming and cute, games like cuphead, or persona 5 or tf2 or overwatch and less like, insomniac spider man, or the last of us 2
should have used the word "simpler graphics" rather than the worse graphics, when i think of worse graphics, i think of a game with ugly graphics even when its 4k like 2022 Saints Row
@@teamok1025 I didn't say it was the worst, I didn't even say it was worse, I literally cleared up that worse means, not photorealism, not necessarily worse graphical quality
To be fair, ‘indie’ games can sometimes be a crawl through a lot of junk to find the gems. But at least they are often underpriced junk and not charging premium prices for unfinished messes of a game. 😅😅 i tend to like retro games most. Many ports are at least complete games that run great!
YAASSS 👏👏👏 Jk lol But this is what I've been saying for so long. There is a huge uncanny disconnect from seeing a realistic looking character model and world looking static. The lack of physics and interactivity is disappointing. The Super Mario Wonder game feels more lively than some of the photorealistic looking games.
THIS. Give me lesser graphics with wild interaction, even if doesn’t directly contribute to the forward movement of the game, I.e. breakable glass objects, physics objects, stackable stuff. Make a world feel real more than look real, and it will make up the difference in visual quality
A good example of this is Dark Souls and demon souls. Those games were filled with issues, but they were super amazing games still. We need more B budget games that are more risky.
I care about not having endless filler padding just for a game to pretend to be bigger and I feel like the way to do this is to have more intimate and meaningful content created for it. We don't need the biggest open world we just need a world that feels alive and fun to be in.
the volume of people who aspire to, or failed out of, film and television is a big part of this. All it takes is 1 of the leads with an irrational drive to prove they deserve to enter hollywood creative circles to break a project.
Another thing about "worse graphics" is that makes it easier to run games on lower end hardware. Love your channel, I'll be sticking around for a while to see what else you put out!
and games with simpler graphics take up less space The best selling open world game of all time, Minecraft, takes up less than 1 gb on download The latest COD Remaster of Modern Warfare 3 takes up 250 gb of space and its not even an open world game, its just an fps with a ton of junk content such as skins and 4k tracers
Rooting for indies and the return of the AA game. It's insane to think that we've reached a point where some of the industry's biggest studios will only have time to release one or two games for an entire console generation.
Whoa... Just realized that could kill the Xbox and PlayStation. 😨 At least Nintendo will be fine. They're basically a AAA company with the sensibilities of an Indie studio.
being a software developer and having been on the end of some crunches, when I hear paid more, I hear better work life balance, ultimately there is no amount of money that it suddenly possible to sustainably work crunch hours. the base pay of game devs should go up generally though.
Artists of every kind need to be paid more. You'd be shocked to know just how many people don't think that art is a real job despite 99% of media being made by artists.
Oh no, you have to sit in front a computer for more hours, like you weren't already doing that outside of work. I wonder how quickly you would fail and complain about doing overtime for manual labor work.
Making a good game is hard as hell. Tried to take the leap and make one myself around a year ago. All I did was draw character concepts and wrote a lore synopsis, which all took 6 months to complete. After I made my first teaser, I lost motivation entirely, and the project is currently shelved with all documents / assets saved to my computer in a folder gathering dust over time. Serious credit to any game that makes it to release. Development opened my eyes to the jaw-dropping talent needed to produce masterpieces like Undertale. Games like that are a testament to amazing dedication and fantastic work ethic. Can’t imagine pouring my soul into a game project for 5+ years only for it to flop massively, falling short of the original vision entirely. Honestly seems like it could cause a mid-life crisis. Best wishes to all you game devs. Games are hard, but they’re just games. Don’t let them decide your worth, fell into that fallacy myself.
"All I did was draw character concepts and wrote a lore synopsis, which all took 6 months to complete." lol sounds like you were trying to make a movie instead of a game
I watched a gamedev tutorial years ago that said making the worldbuilding and characters before gameplay was one of the fastest ways to burn out, and it stuck with me. It makes sense I guess, cause then you're trying to cobble together a game based on pre-existing ideas that aren't actually a game. Then every mechanic and asset you're building is just a checklist of lore elements. Sounds a bit less playful to work with than making the raw mechanics in a vacuum and worrying about the other stuff after they're constructed. Most immediate example I can come up with is how Splatoon has some pretty complicated lore and extensive worldbuilding, but the earliest build for it was literal blocks shooting globs of black and white at each other way before the devs even conceptualized the squid idea. Once there's a solid game created with good feeling mechanics working, the worldbuilding can just naturally compliment it.
@@sonicfanboy3375And for every one of those little indie titles that just explode in popularity, there are about 100 more that, even if they’re almost or just as good, languish in obscurity. It’s much easier to get into the indie market than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago, but that’s both a blessing and a curse.
@@FedoraKirb My favourite games have "meh" popularity but are loved and adored in their tiny niche. Outer Wilds, Rain World, Magicka, Into The Breach, Barotrauma, Journey. They all got their share of love and recognition, but far less than they actually deserve.
I think by "worse graphics" people mean "stylized graphics", and if that's the case I highly agree. We've seen a lot of "realistic looking games with a lot of repetitive tasks". In comparison to that, games with stylized graphics -in particular indie games that are smaller in their worlds, time to complete but offer fresher experiences.
Nah I mean straight-up worse, less poly lower quality textures etc. When I play a game from 5-10 years ago they don't look bad, even the ones trying to be realistic like Gran Turismo they still look more than good enough. Give me more cars and tracks with worse graphics and I'll be happy. For me too much effort is put into graphics, I don't care if you spent 2 years developing tech that lets hair bounce realistically. I'd rather you had spent that time making the game fun instead.
No I literally mean worse graphics. I don't mind if it's realistic, but I don't want them to spend a million buck making sure I can see every bead of sweat on my character, and RDR2 should have had the guy stuck with horse ball duty do something else
People sometimes act annoyed when I call myself an "indie game player", but immediately change their mind when I point out that half their top 10 are indie games. So many people surprisingly don't think of games like Hollow Knight, Hades, or Dead Cells as "indie games" because so many people think indie game = bad game, and these are good so they assume they aren't.
I've been saying this for a while about graphics. A lot of games have been going for "as realistic as possible" as their art style lately, and that's just not an artstyle. You are not limited by anything, really, so create an artstyle that's unique to your game, that makes me recognize it immediately. Very few big games do this. On the other hand, a lot of indie games do this out of sheer necessity. A single dude who can code often can't do much in the area of art, so he has to compromise, and the result is often minimalistic but recognizable, which is all a lot of people are asking for, really.
I think that's a really stupid take, realism is an art style whether you like it or not that is an art style that artist have done that's just disrespectful to most artists that do realism
With realistic graphics: "Hey, after school you wanna play this awesome game with me?" "Oh sorry, my computer cant handle that" With worst graphic: "Hey, after school you wanna play this awesome game with me?" "Sure let do this!"
So true! My old computer who could handle all of my steam games and even the sims with multiple packs and generators could not get through the tutorial level of Balder’s gate without crashing. A year later i now have a much stronger computer and can now finally play it.
For me, as a 3D artist, I always have the feeling that hyperrealism and creativity are inversely proportional, the more realistic you make a game (whether from an artistic or gameplay point of view) it seems that the more limiting it becomes, maybe that's because I've always consumed many Japanese games throughout my life, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix, etc...
I get what you mean, but its funny seeing Square Enix on this list when they were sorta a pioneer of the realism movement with the post-pixel era of Final Fantasy. The CG in 7-9 were graphic marvels, both realistically and stylistically. The environments in the PS2 FFs mimmicked real textures and environments incredibly for the time. But you can certainly say TWEWY, Kingdom Hearts, and such were more on the stylized side
Hyperrealism can be really cool in some instances, photography isnt less artistic than animation for instance. If I wanted something to be really creepy, hyperrelaism would be one good choice. But its a choice. Dont just assume hyperrealism is the option. Final Fantasy (which is stylized especially the characters) wouldn't be as sick as it is if it werent for the crazy juxtaposition of its wierdness and its graphics. Like that wierd-ass Asian restaurant gives me strange vibes that I like.
Could be something like your Puppet/Set-Up character, a military torture technician that likes to "fetch the toys" themselves and considers the "usual room" to just be a nice luxury, but any place will do. It might involve summoning two of their goons to immobilize the target, before they gang up on them to do something horrible.
One of my favorite childhood books is "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie." It perfectly encapsulates the mindset of needing better and better graphics and not being sufficed with anything less.
Blizzard showed of Devs playing Diablo 4, and they didn't have a clue what they were doing. People love blaming corporations and CEOs, as they should, but forget it takes a lot of talentless, clueless people, over 9000 of them in fact, to make the only ARPG in the last 30 years where the resistance stat just doesn't work. Johnny CEO doesn't tell the team to make the bosses all have 3 moves each, with no mechanics. Johnny CEO doesn't tell the team to load up every single other person's inventory and stash into memory, causing memory leaks and crashes. The industry is full of complete clowns, and everyone keeps ignoring that aspect. Case in point, you can watch these dummies cry about Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 on their own personal profiles. Yes the corporations are evil, yes the CEOs are soul sucking scumbags, but the industry is full of idiots that are rubbing their collective braincell together, and making completely shoddy products. People need to stop ignoring this.
@@SeasoningTheObeseGood point. But the higher ups choose who to hire. So we have a leadership that doesn't play games, hiring developers that don't know anything about games. And the cycle continues. It is like having a music or art company run by people that have no idea about the subject. I agree, everyone is to blame. We don't know who did the mistakes and who knows how to do things right. So let's not harass game devs please. The CEOs are swimming in money regardless if the game sells well or not.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein "Let's not harass game devs" I disagree. People used to get destroyed for selling garbage, now we have to coddle them, pretend we have no say in anything, all while eating the shit they shovel, while they insult us.
Games with less money spent on graphics and padding might actually be able to take risks and have creative gameplay. Creativity is lacking in the current game industry.
we could have so much better stuff. there's so much money spent on graphics that it's insane to just think about what AI could be like in video games if devs could rather focus the money on that.
@@jeffboy4231 or physics. we had Half-Life 2 and it feels like since then not that much did change. but yeah...AI in most games is still "uh i heard shots from over there and saw how my mate got obliterated by shotgun pellets...don't know who's there but...yeah i guess i run the same way."
@@jeffboy4231 realistically AI will mostly be used to help create clones of already successful formulas in a faster and cheaper way, as a shortcut for companies to capitalize on hype in the most cost-effective manner if you're looking for fresh ideas for visuals and creative gameplay, PEOPLE have tons of those, but they're often being killed by big studios as they're deemed potentially not profitable enough (hence the popularity of Indie games, where such ideas can be explored without being bound to market research) t. Art Director in the videogame industry
i think a thing that personally bothers me is that games with realistic graphics tend to end up looking similar since they're imitating the same thing, while games with more stylized graphics have a more visually distinct identity to them, and are much easier to tell apart when you don't know anything else about them (just speaking from personal experience). whenever i've seen unlabeled gameplay footage i've found interesting in a video essay, i have a much easier time to later recognize the game somewhere else when it's more stylized. in addition, realistic graphics easily step into uncanny valley for me personally and can make my gaming experience actively uncomfortable, so it's definitely not my cup of tea. the rise of the "spiderverse style" in 3D animated movies is very exciting to me for a similar reason!
Important conversation for all game fans to be having and keep having; to analyze the problem, strategize, and take action however we actually can. Thank you for using your platform to further that cause!
This is exactly how you should approach all problems in life. 1. Assume there is a solution, 2. Analyze the problem to form a mental map of it, 3. Calculate potential routes of resolution / improvement 4. Calculate the best way to actualize it 5. Execute
@@emikochan13 they are no longer in any control of their original IPs or the money circulation of the games industry does not center around them. NMedia attention, reach etcetera except in specific cases.
I've been working in software development for 5 years now. On a few occasions, I've been asked to work overtime to finish a product, and I've refused every time. I understand that a company will cut you loose for that, but when nearly the whole department refuses and pushes management's poor planning back on them, you're not losing your job anytime soon. Maybe I'm already jaded on software.
@@mogo-wc7xw that was mostly my last job, which was so mismanaged that I'm fairly sure all the money the company made was through scamming the DoD. My current one doesn't ask for overtime.
Wildly specific but my favorite is shorter games that can last forever if you want them to. I'm big on tycoon games and things like Stardew valley. You *could* finish the story in a few hours if you wanted to, and you could stop playing after doing so. Or you can meander through the plot and then afterwards make up your own goals and fun and keep going forever. Helps with having limited money to spend on games and so so much free time.
or katana zero where you can play the game in let's say 8 hours or something and then play the hard mode and die a million times. the hard mode is basically the same levels with new enemy placement but it changes so much about this game, it's so worth it so if you like hotline miami or something, go play it.
$20 for 17 hours spent of fun? Someone is complaining!? Seriously? By that standard, it's WAY more entertainment value than any current movie ticket price (no matter how good the movie is).
I could not agree more with this. I have friends who work in game dev and the only thing I've been hearing is how much pressure they're now under to crank these games out. It looks like AAA devs have lost that passion for games, but the devs haven't lost that passion; it was ripped from them by executives who demand better work on the cheap done yesterday.
Man it's a real shame that this channels numbers aren't as big as they could be I'm so serious when I say this is some of the most quality content on the platform
watch the video in it's full length, like it (or dislike if you want doesn't really matter) and write a comment and you're doing your work to make youtube show his videos to more people :)
I work in design, with a programming/project management undergrad and am about to complete my Master's in Business Admin. Literally have diagnosed PM issues in nine figure businesses doing consulting work. And this is the best breakdown of Total Quality Management I've ever seen. Seriously, should be required watching.
Whats funny is I believe making "ultra realistic" games are much easier now than artistic games. Realistic assets are practically drag and drop now a days, and because its a lot easier, the optimization also takes a hit. Lighting is becoming less and less artistically placed in favor of drag and drop ray traced lighting. Call of Duty for example is becoming ultra realistic, but the gameplay sucks now and the performance has taken massive hits
It's weird looking back at games from the N64 and PS1 how lots of games tried to be "realistic" (GoldenEye and Metal Gear for example) and were prised despite visually aging like shit, while more stylized games were made fun of despite being the games that visually aged the best (MegaMan Legends and Castlevania SOTN for ex), and even funnier considering how there are no 3D retro-looking indie games trying to look like the "realistic" old games, only as the stylized games.
Just a T-posing model on a manipulated wire frame or some goofy mocap in a massive open world. Job done. Oh shit we forgot the story, gameplay, and QA bug testing... Ship it anyway
@@juanrodriguez9971t's about timing. Back them, being more realistic was totally new and people were experiencing it for the first time. I'd argue that since the PS3 gen this has become less appealing because It was commom. I mean, graphics can still improve, but the steps are always smaller. Jumping from the SNES to metal gear solid or ff7 was a HUGE leap, like mindblowing. At least that's how I felt.
@@navdragoni it's just interesting to know how some of the most mind blowing tricks got old so fast while those who were ignored became the most praised and we'll remembered. I get how mind-blowing it had to be to go from cartoon pixel art to "realistic" to actually realistic, that doesn't change how the unforgiving pass of time decided who will be remembered for it's visuals and who had to be forgotten or ignored or painful to go back.
That's exactly what everyone is doing on youtube with their "if -game- was made on unreal engine", like, sure it's HD, but there's no soul mate. And funny thing is everyone is eating it and saying "woaw amazing!", but when it's done by an official studio like with Sonic Frontier eveyrone gets mad because there's no art direction. I would rather have games with Wind Waker DA than those creepy "zelda 4K unreal engine fangames", which are creepy as hell and run like cr*p
Another motivation for wanting games to reduce their scope is that they keep using "games are more expensive than ever to make!" as the excuse to increase the price of games, include multiple season passes, and run MTX in games that we already payed for, all of which also significantly negatively impacts the gaming experience and I can't speak for everyone but I personally would rather prefer we pulled way the hell back and made actual games instead of money printing machines. And these games aren't _just_ artificially lengthened to meet player demand, they're often done so to make "live services" so they can completely capture your attention and have more opportunities to peddle their cash grabs at you. And NONE of this is worth it. I would happily go back to PS2/PS3 level fidelity if it gave up all this _trash._
I LOVE your videos. I really appreciate the fact that you dive into and research these topics over parroting others' opinions on social media, or simply summarizing work other people have done. your scripts are to the point, concise, and purposeful. I just really like seeing an essay youtuber actually do it right, lol
Yeah. I feel like companies like Activision or EA can have their people commit several warcrimes publicly, yet billions of people will still purchase their barely functioning games and giving it high sales just because they slapped the "Call of Duty" or "FIFA" name on it.
Theyre addicted dude, video games can be used as drug and a lot of "gamers" are actually just junkies, my brother is addicted to games all he does is eat all day and game all day
Two of my most satisfying game experiences (Sayonara Wild Hearts and Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion) each clocked in at under 3 hours. Meanwhile, most big budget games I enjoyed at the start end up over staying their welcome by a dozen hours or so.
I replayed Donkey Kong Country the other day, which can also be beat under 3 hours, and I was thinking how it felt like a comfortable amount of time. It's short by today's standards and the replay value means it could be longer, but it's not too short. The last long game I played that had me asking for even more length was S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Unions are not necessarily good for the workers. Ever get a crash marked on your clean driving record because someone would be fired if he got another crash he'd be fired?
I want bags of potato chips and nachos that are at least 75% full, and have only full sized completely unbroken chips all the way to the bottom of the bag.
so first of all: I actually like when the chips are broken, idk they taste better. now for my main point: your demands are actually paradoxical in a way since more unbroken chips means more air space between them (really the smaller the chips are/the more broken they are, the tighter they can stick together).
I was thinking about this a few days ago, I miss when videogames used to look like videogames and not like CGI movies, somehow it was more immersive since you had to complete the picture with your imagination plus gameplay was more fun generally and developers took more risc for good or for bad sometimes 😅.
the risk has more to do with how limiting shareholders and the people above are as u need to ensure a profit and if not or not big enough they will just say ¡but look at fifa!
@@agssilv5919 Investors were still a thing in the early days, but with smaller amounts of money, a failed project was something they could realistically handle (not to mention they still hadn't figured out they could cram in microstransactions and the like). Nowdays though? They've gotten so big that not turning a profit is devastating.
There's something so wonderful about Hotline Miami 1 really setting the pace/aesthetic of the 2010's to slightly retro, neon violence. Of course cyberpunk existed long before (tabletop game was from the 80's), but HM1 really pushed the rest of the scene when it went viral. All this from a game I can beat in 1-2 hours, almost always in one sitting.
I think games made for limited (portable) hardware are very important. hardware limitations help keep graphics and length in check. As a not dev I don't know if it takes less time to make though . there's also something kind of magical about a game that pushes it's hardware right to the edge in a competent way ... I am also old and miss the glory days of the PSP and 3DS .
Graphically limited games (either by hardware or cost) can't go for fidelity so they focus on lighting and artstyle and it shows. It's also easier to get right since you don't have to perfectly mimic reality. A good old example would be Wind Waker, so much effort went into making the lighting and artstyle look great it became timeless. Most good indie games follow this.
Stylized assets for games with simple art style can be faster to make, but it's dependant on the exact style - usually it's chosen to make the project feasible in the first place. Realistic assets take time to make from scratch, but most studios rely heavily on using already exiating scan data and so on to make realistic assetd, which also speeds up the process to be potentially faster, although integrating all that together requires a lot more tech work. Just more specialized people for every single thing. Don't think it can be abstracted to some exact rule, but we'll chosen stylized graphics will make the project doable at least.
It's kind of interesting (or tragic, you pick) to think that these hundred-hour-long-game developers are doing large amounts of "dead" work that only the most dedicated 100%ers will see. At some point, doing every single quest in Skyrim is going to be beyond the point of fun for most people, yet someone had to design, program, voice act, etc...all of those, probably during crunch - and how much of that extra sludge is going to be genuinely narratively fulfilling, or a satisfying challenge to the player? I agree with you completely; shorter games with a higher density of actually meaningful gameplay is the way to go. That, and good gameplay with a strong art style trumps sheer weight of length or graphical hyperrealism, even if you're not a Small Indie Dev Team. Just look at a game like Hi-Fi Rush - a commercial and popular success without being a million hours long or "pores on the skin" level graphically.
One of my favorite small indie games, A Short Hike, is a great example of the argument made. The art style is very stylized, with its pixelated camera filter and cartoony characters. It’s a very short game too, clocking in at around only 2 hours, but it was a blast trying to 100% the little game and finding out all of its little secrets. I highly recommend it if you want a casual game to have fun and explore in.
Its a masterpiece. I originally redeemed it free on epic some years ago but i went and bought it on steam for me and other 2 buddies of mine, i needed to support the devs for a gem with that much soul poured into it
Agreed with all your points! I haven’t even FINISHED Cult of the Lamb but I still feel I got my moneys worth. Not everything is made for everyone and that’s fine.
I don’t think short form games are a manifestation of the low attention span phenomenon; it’s more akin to the relationship between feature-length films/miniseries and network shows that are long for the sake of being long. Like, sure it’s great that there’s so much of Gray’s Anatomy to watch, but given the choice, I’d way rather sit down and watch the one season of Squid Game that watch all of Gray’s Anatomy, because Squid Game is much more structured and cohesive, and the story is going somewhere, whereas Gray’s Anatomy is basically the same thing over and over, written with no end goal in mind. It’s written to go on for as long as they can get people to watch it, whereas Squid Game is written with the goal of making people think when they get to the end, “Wow, that was a high quality production, and a well-executed story.” I think it’s also worth pointing out that 20 hour games aren’t some new thing. If anything, games have gotten longer in the last ten or twenty years. Length isn’t a bad thing, but I think the way a lot of games these days are padded out with lower-quality content in order to meet length expectations suggests we’re more willing to spend hours on low-quality content than we were before.
I'm a programmer by trade. As is probably true of most devs at this point in time, I originally started because I loved video games and wanted to work on them. The book "Game Coding Complete" (I think I had the 4th edition) by Mike McShaffry and Rez Graham set me straight quickly. These guys both worked for major development studios and shared stories from their time in industry. One thing that stuck was mention of "the Century Club," a joke about how hard they had to work - 100+ hour weeks often enough for them to see it regularly.
I never heard of that book. Been working what's going to be my first commercial game and it sounds interesting. Yeah it's a gargantuan amount of work. All day every day for months and months. I don't think I'd want to do it for a company unless the people were real cool and the pay was good too.
Great video! As an agile coach with 20+ years in the trenches, I‘ve always been baffled how far behind the video game industry is on modern work and product development methods.
As someone who does enjoy their long open world games at times. I do appreciate smaller indie games with creative art styles with solid experiences that don't overstay with their welcome unless you absolutely want to. I adore Hades, Tunic, and Pizza Tower so much. You can put alot of hours into it if you want to.
I can definitely enjoy open world games, but I think many are far bigger than I'd like them to be. AC origins was close to ideal size for me and then they're like let's keep making them bigger! It's still good but I just don't have the time for it. I do like my single player campaigns though as well
Those people who are in the mindset of "well, indies exist" don't get the point, it would be ten times better to have a polished Game with amazing artstyle and badass gameplay but Big studios are just focusing in bigger games and better graphics that causes them to delay those games for like Half a decade now, When ignoring those things would be much Easier to just make banger after banger of profitable and cheap games that take 2 years at much. The thing is indie games are cool but they don't have enough budget to make both a Good presentation and Good gameplay and at the same time polish the thing enough before lunch. It usually is just 1 or 2 of those 3.
I think you're gonna see the collapse of a lot of these AAA companies and also see some indie studios become major publishers. A lot of AAA companies are ran by greedy executives who want to make the most money they can by releasing the most half-baked, micro-transaction-ridden product they can while also gaslighting their users into thinking their games are good and that this is normal, where as indie companies want to make the best product they can with money being important but secondary. Almost every single person who is remotely into gaming has caught on to it and aren't playing AAA games, because they're expensive and the end product they get is terrible, and there's a gaming PR disaster like every week. It's not gonna happen overnight, but you'll definitely see it in the coming years, and these AAA companies aren't going to back down or have a change in leadership. They're going to double down on their greed and be in for this collapse to the very end.
I'd love for AAA-studios to have a contest and come up with the best possible game within a 12 months timeframe. All gameplay, little time for graphics and a small story. I'd play that
I just wanted to say that I love the way you talk in a very clear and calming way, with a pretty good dictation, and without doing any kind of exagerated expressions. As a non-native english speaker, I can understand you perfectly. You're doing an amazing job and I wish that more people discover and follow you content!
You actually list your sources and things used in your vid???? Man, I think you're my favourite creator this month already. Gonna binge em up and hit that bell and sub. Well deserved brother.
i genuinely think ps2 graphics are beautiful, its almost like reading a book where you dont have the complete visual representation of it, and so you need to imagine the details and nuances. idk how to explain but when i play these somewhat early 3d games like ps1/ps2 i fell like the graphics makes me imagine everything more vividly. like when playing half life, i like seeing a cylinder and having to complete the image in my head to create a granade (sorry if bad eng)
For me, a major component for me to continue playing a game is the story. If it doesn't grab my attention within the first chapter than I will more than likely not finish it. This applied to games like FF10 and hopefully FF16 after the demo, but it also included games like Valiant Hearts and Hades.
Was about to comment saying, "if it's such a problem, then stop buying it" right as your collective action segment started to roll. Glad you mentioned that. Wish it was more integral to the video instead of just running as the credits roll. Makes the important part feel like an after thought
Something I feel could have been brought up is the lack of creative freedom for developers in larger studios. Due to publishers wanting to follow trends, many mechanics are sometimes pushed into products that the developers would not have pushed otherwise. Take for instance all the blatantly forced battle royale modes so many games got and microtransactions. It also correlates to modern games being "safer" in terms of design, not taking risks as its an easy revenue stream. This is less of a problem for indie games as they are not chained to a set of rules for their development.
When focusing on the main objectives, The Binding of Isaac is about 11 Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around 138 Hours to obtain 100% completion. So yea, that doesn't mean the game is 140 hours long, it just means it has a lot of hidden depth behind the rogue-like loop. Otherwise is just an 11 hour finish and switch game. Which is shorter than Cult of the Lamb, if you really want to compare the 2.
This is why I have always said time is the worst "metric" ever invented. It should be about enjoyment anyway. Not how pretty it is, or how long did it take, *did you have fun*.
look not to ruin the fun or anything but the gameplay kind of just boils down to press a button to jump over a platform with no consequences, but hey, you can play as a cat at least 👍
My absolute favourite releases recently was hi-fi rush it's just a perfect game imo it wasn't rushed it a decent length and best of all it's just plain fun! No micro transactions, no subscriptions, no loot boxes, etc. just a fun hack and slash with amazing animation and art style and it's funny af
I think that there is an argument for worse graphics. Something that stood out to me when watching Bungie's Halo 3 video is the amount of work that increased when they transitioned to HD.
I will say, roguelike games specifically are made simply to let you feel stronger each play. They aren't "Meaningless" the meaning is to grind and by the time you actually 100% it, you feel super accomplished. The biggest thing with roguelikes is they are for a specific type of people.
Ya, those that will mistakenly put immense amounts of effort and time into these endless game loops to the detriment of personal real-world achievement.
@synnical77 if you're trying to say roguelikes are bad because people waste time on them instead of doing something real, you could say that about any game. if you're saying something else then im not sure what you mean.
By that logic every hard game ever created would be a rogue like. Even dark souls would be rogue like, because of what you have described is the exact same way that game was designed.
@arjuna6224 no, that's not at all what I mean. I'm saying that's why they are the way they are. not that the only thing that makes a roguelike a roguelike is what I said in my comment. you missed the whole point of my comment.
@@d3monicwolf why even call it rogue like, all you said is that a rogue like means a game where after hours of grinding, finally completing that hard level gives you an accomplishment,which is basically every hard game ever.
Holy hell your channel skyrocketed and grew so much from last I checked you out, congratulations! Been a fan for a while, and thank you for your continued content!
Nintendo and most indie games are doing a great job of meeting these needs, and I am super excited to see the Steam Deck doing well so far since it could mean a future for indie consoles
I do love a game with a beginning, middle and end, slight side quest necessary to move the gameplay forward and many fun side quest that just give you more goodies for winning them. I do not have enough time to linger on too lengthy games. I could play slightly lengthy games back in highschool but when you have a job and several obligations, going for long playtimes is rare. Short fun makes you feel like you have achieved something when you finish them and it feels good. A too long game feels like a never-ending fun-turned-to-nightmare stuff.
You're right; for me, it's much more about having strong art directions, and far less about the graphical fidelity. If a game's art direction is displeasing, there is no amount of polishing that will save it, and, personally, I can't stand a focus on hyper-realism-- at best, it's only ever an uncanny-valley.
I love your videos and your style of presentation, simple, to the point, frank and of course the fact that you express yourself very well(the words you use and the tone of your voice) thanks for another great video !
17:53 yeah to comment on that, we as a gamer society kinda need to realize that games are not for gamers anymore. There are a majority population of casuals that play call of duty games that makes up a huge slice of the money pie. Games cater to newer demographics. We arent going to make a huge dent in the AAA industry unless we all agree to stop buying AAA games across the board and only buy and play indie games.
Excellent commentary an editing. Glad this video showed up in my recommendations (YT has been really off the mark on that in recent months). The Iron Triangle graphics were fantastic, including how they changed in tandem with your talking points. Kudos!
For me, a games aesthetic and characters are really important to me. I recently played Master Detective Archives: Raincode, and is it the best game..? No. But the world and characters are just so charming, I had fun even if it felt a little too short. A cool style draws me in way more than a realistic style.
Motion twin (the creations of dead cells) are amazing with dev times and avoidance of crunch time. Truly a pillar of what the industry standard should be.
An incredible video as always. Couldn’t have come at a better time either! Last hour of my shift was infinitely improved, and its a topic that’s been on my mind since I preordered Diablo 4. As always, I loved watching, and I can’t wait for next time!
I hate people who thinks "I paid this game x amount so it should at least be x hours long" so much. It's because of that kind of people if now games are made so painfully long for no reason at all. It's just a stupid way of valuing your time too, you want a game to last 60 hours even if the game sucks asses just because you paid it 60? People should value how much FUN and ENTERTAINMENT not using the completely arbitrary and random metric of "1 hours = 1 buck". Who even decided that? Why is it not 50 cent or 5 bucks instead of 1? It makes absolutely no sense. The Order 1886 was harshly criticised because it was "too short" but I would kill to have a game like that again. It didn't drag long for no reason, it was straight to the point and it did what it wanted to do really good.
im pretty open to all types of games, even the open world stuff, i enjoy completing stuff even if its “meaningless” cause its just nice for me whilst enjoying short games at the same time like Undertale and Cuphead which are some of my favorite games. Graphics never really mattered to me as long as they dont make my eyes hurt.
I don't want to be nitpicky too much because I agree with the sentiment you mention and it's a good video, but some points need to be pushed back at least from an indie perspective. With regards to short vs long game, maybe some people on social medias "say" they want shorter ones, but in game dev circles a lot of people are analysing what games are selling for marketing and sales planning: it's pretty clear that a big section of players (aka most of Steam) much prefer longer games (generally through replayability). This also goes into the management triangle with which I don't agree (mostly as a project manager myself lol). There are games that took a couple of months to make and have very long gameplay. Here's list of a few games that, for a (generally) small team (1-3) were made (generally) under a year: Another World, Binding of Isaac, A Short Hike, Paper's Please, Hotline Miami, SNKRX, 20 minutes till dawn, etc. even more recently Endoparasitic, etc. And it's not just indie: if you look at older games, you can find examples (just to name one, Rollercoaster Tycoon). What I'm saying is that although graphics are really the crux of the matter, the "type" of game also has an impact: less so the playing time itself. A very good roguelike/roguelite or management/simulation game can be done with low graphics in a reasonable time (low scope) and will still provide extended gameplay and enjoyment for the players (in the tens if not hundreds of hours). (Also, small nitpick, but IMO cuphead IS sophisticated, it is a highly polished 2D in a very professional style. Compared to the total size of the team, the number of artists/animators/art contractors is higher than the rest.) Good video and discussion!
100% agree with this video if a game is short but feels great to play and doesn't keep dragging on forever, you'll be a lot more likely to replay it as well; that whole "cost per game length" thing assumes you're only playing through that game once my top 3 favorite games this year (as in, games I played for the first time this year, not games that came out this year) are Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Lunistice and Final Fantasy IV; one cartoony-looking modern AAA game, one obscure indie game with pretty-much-PS1 graphics, and one game older than me (well, at least the original version of it) with pixel art graphics. they took me 30 hours, 15 hours and ~50 hours to complete, respectively, but every single last one of these hours was enjoyable, with Ratchet & Clank making me wish we were getting more AAA game like this nowadays. It hasn't even been 2 months since I 100%'ed the first two, yet I'm already starting to wanna replay them lol (FFIV I finished like 2 weeks ago. will prolly wanna replay it again later tho) but I do enjoy some long games *IF* they follow this "every moment spent playing feels worth it" pattern; Hollow Knight and Epic Battle Fantasy 5 (an indie turn-based RPG Flash game from 2018, also the game with my favorite soundtrack) take a really long time to complete but would definitely be in top 10 favorite games since they just, feel, good, to play.
This is by far the best video i've seen on this topic. Thank you so much for making this, I completely agree on all points. It also makes me feel better about my own projects since as only one dude and a couple friends, we can't make games that are crazy long or super visually impressive, lol. Trying our best though.
We definitely need way more double A games like Senua's sacrifice and Hifi Rush. There's clear quality and polish there but it's not lacking in scope either. That would give us a nice buffer of games in between the big triple A releases.
oh hey thanks for the iron triangle part. I came across that way back in my university days, my professor used "effort" instead of scope but everything else is exactly the same and I have lived by these teachings ever since. just never knew it was called the iron triangle. fucking sick name too.
Given that most of us have massive game backlogs that we will likely never get through, it seems pretty evident that short games that don't require a huge time investment are in demand. One of the best gaming experiences I've ever had was 'It Takes Two'. It's about 12'ish hours in length but every minute was special.
Been gaming since the Long Long Ago -- the Atari days of Pong and Defender and Donkey Kong and E.T. I watched the graphics race define the industry for decades. Hell, I rode on the hype train as they accelerated what was possible both graphically and content-wise for games. But, right around the time 3D started in, there started to be a schism. Some of us recognized that graphical fidelity didn't correlate with a better game. We didn't realize how much, exactly, but we did see that aiming for "realistic" was going to age a game more quickly than a solid art direction with stylization. I think the best example of this was Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. Fast forward to today. I've watched my once niche hobby shared by very few of my contemporaries become an unstoppable multi-billion dollar industry. Gaming is now ubiquitous -- it has even informed reward programs for Starbucks. And just like the movie and music industry, that has not behooved it at all. Now, I find myself drifting away from the hype trains for the AAA space. I'm not interested in God of War: Ragnarok. FFXVI barely appeals. Gimme the AA, the indies, the passion projects worked on by that one person who made the game in their spare time over the course of years. I want them to succeed. I want them to get rich off their work. I want to topple the billion dollar gaming industry by a thousand cuts as we realize the waste, excess, and suffering of AAA games. I want to watch their CEOs stand on stage confused as people stop giving a shit about the newest cutting age dumpster fire game. I want people to rise up cheering when the small to mid-size devs show off their game they spent 2 or three years of moderate 40 hour work weeks creating. I know it ain't gonna happen. But man, how great it'd be.
good video. my one issue with it is I felt you might have misunderstood the "worse graphics" part of the meme. you discussed this as if it were solely a demand for stylised graphics rather than photo realistic, whereas it's a bit more complicated than that. for me there are two main reasons for wanting worse graphics, the first is the effect on the devs, which you covered in other sections. but the second benefit, the one you didn't mention was the effect on hardware and frame rate. take The Last Of Us 2 as an example, if Big Naughty Dog Neil came to me and said would you prefer graphics similar in quality to the PS4 version of part 1, I wouldnt have thought twice, I'd happily sacrifice some fidelity for a performance improvement, in fact I do exactly that on PC all the time. funnily enough the conclusion about graphics still applies, a higher frame rate won't make a bad game good, but it can make a good game better
Another reason would be the amount of time invested in making the game gets far too long, trilogies don't exist in a generation anymore. There's also the fact the publishers want devs to make less risk less imaginative games because games cost a lot to make. So most creative games now are indie.
I focused on stylized as a way to explain that you can still make a game with less demanding visuals look good, but you’re right that a large part of it is making the visuals less demanding in the first place
one of my favorite games ive played in the last few months is Vampire Survivors. Graphically it looks like it could of came out on Sega Genesis, yet its so simple and addictive
This is why I’ve worked in more indies games in recent years. I have a lot of recent AAA games that I never beat. I love coming back to them now and then but indie games are a change of pace for me. Plus there are games I never would of taken a second look at like hades, hollow knight etc.
Your channel and this video are making a difference in the industry. If only a little, it's something better than nothing. I believe! In the larger scheme of things, THIS is a step in the right direction.
cult of the lamb wasnt criticised for being too short. it was criticised because of its bugginess, lack of depth and the fact that it was incredibly short at launch
What? The devs had bad conditions, it was a pretty long game by Metroid standards, and the graphics were very good for the system with a shit ton of graphics, and even problems for the final product (like insane loading times and lag)
I think a good example that comes to mind is Corpse Party. I rarely get scared anymore by "polished" horror games, but CP had so much horrifying elements in its storytelling and, along with the use of a few moving pixels, made me lefitimately feel unnerved. The player's imagination added so much - and I feel this is something that big studios just don't cater to enough.
As someone who can't afford the latest Consoles/PC hardware, all the push for "muh realism" flew over my head because I could only play games at lower settings or straight up just indie games that arent graphically demanding in the first place. I played them all the same because they were fun, not because I could see a characters pores or some shit lol.
@@GamerEternelHaven You might be right about that for most gamers but i literally cant care about the shiniest most realistic games since i dont have the hardware for it so i am putting my money where my mouth is most of the time. Also idk about everyone else, but I bought GOW2018 and Spiderman PS4 not because they look pretty, but because of brand recognition. I always run them on performance mode which looks shittier lmao. maybe im just an outlier because i also dont give a fuck if a game runs at 30fps as long as its stable lol
@@GamerEternelHaven No one is saying games cant be both fun and realistic. People that say they want "worse games" are just tired of obviously unpolished/unfinished games constantly coming out. If they can't slow their production of games down because of external factors, we'd rather want them to focus on a working product instead of a good-looking buggy mess. and RE: indie games not selling as much as Sony exclusives: of course it wont. Sony, or any AAA studio honestly, has all the money to advertise their games so casual players who arent super into games would gravitate towards AAA games. During the PS3 era, i was that kind of gamer. Indie games even with the internet wont reach as far and wide without Sony-level advertising. But anyway the good news is they can coexist. Big companies can continue to make these huge ass half-baked games, while the Indie scene will provide for those who arent into that.
@@GamerEternelHaven I'll admit, I do agree the distaste for Sony exclusives are a bit misdirected, some other game companies deserve the hate more than Sony does. I may have bought Spiderman PS4 because of brand recognition, but I will not deny it was one of the more fun AAA games I've played along with both Norse GoW games. I will also admit we're just a vocal minority, and obviously did not put a dent in their sales. At the end of the day, as unfortunate as it is, the gamers that don't care and just want the new shiny thing (which i think is in part fueled by FOMO) just outnumbers those who do. I'll just be here waiting months to buy a AAA game after release and letting those people play-test the game for me lmao.
"Good visuals can make a game better, but they cant make a bad game good" you couldn't have have said it better. Great video discussion.
and a good game will still be fun with bad graphics. style and gameplay can make or break a game but not how realistic the graphics are
Nah I have played games I liked just for the aesthetic, I play games for experiences a lot of the time, and art direction can do that alone.
While there are niche genres, 99% of games depend on gameplay to be playable.
Good graphics, good story, lots of content, amazing soundtrack, those things won't make a game with horrid GamePlay playable. Not for most people.
This is why I prioritize gameplay first and foremost.
@@salty_3k506 seriously. Minecraft has 140 million active players a month! I love that game immensely and I still can't honestly say it looks amazing. players just *don't care* because no other game offers as much creative freedom as Minecraft does, so they either get used to it or they develop/install resource packs and shaders.
the gaming industry has long pretended graphics are *the* thing players care about most because it's really what *investors* care about most. people with profits on the line want a sense of a game's quality without ever actually interacting with it, so......
Nah, there are games which would be boring or bad without graphics carrying the game.
The real core of the issue isn't that AAA game publishers don't know what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing. Their goal isn't to make better games. Their goal is to report higher profits to their shareholders than they did last year, and the broken cycle as it currently exists is what allows them to do that... for now. It's not sustainable, but it's making them money _now,_ and that's their only actual concern.
Please let me upvote this more than once.
The corporate greed for infinite growth is killing creativity _now_ and in the long run is _unsustainable_ anyway.
Gotta keep those shareholders happy amiright
@@thisisfyne Totally.
This is why you don't go public if you're successful Video game company. You live off the sales of your games That way you have responsibility and you need to make quality stuff to keep the lights on. The problem is the shareholders have too much power in These Video game publishers. If you need funding you go to the bank or you go and mortgage your house A.k.a. The Developers of cuphead Mortgage their house to fund cuphead Taking a big risk.
Wait aren't you the guy who did m-drive? sick music dude
The sad thing is that publically traded companies are *legally* required to make as much profit as possible, so even if they wanted to, they couldn't stop what they're doing.
I think what part of the community means when they say they want "worse graphics" is that the game studio shouldn't spend 50% of their budget on it and instead focus on the gameplay.
Older total war games had better gameplay, and the graphics are fine.
The actual combat depth also helps the replayability
Even further than that. We don't want this never ending climb of betterer graphics as it forces everyone to keep upgrading consoles and pc's. We have more than enough power in existing equipment. Stop bumping up textures and resolutions and just focus on unique and innovative games as well as established gamestyles.
A 10x more pretty game doesn't make it one iota more fun.
@@andrewgreeb916I've literally just started playing Rome Total war again and it's still entertaining af
We can blame ourselves too. For marketing, graphics are the number 1 seller."
@@joshelguapo5563 Uh, do you have any numbers to back up that assertion?
AAA companies treat graphics like it is a #1 seller but I'm pretty sure the general gaming audience wants fun and smooth.
It is the same thing with TV resolution, only a tiny fragment of the consumer base actually wants 4K tv's. 1080p is still a sweet spot as the hardware required to display (tv's) or render (CPU's/Video Cards) is far more attainable than trying to display 4K content.
another reason I especially agree with the "worse graphics" part is that less intense graphics means the game runs better. as someone with a rather old computer this is a godsend for me, as I can't run a lot of modern games.
@discount724 what if they can't afford a new one?
@@discount724what if they dont want to get a job
@@discount724 I have a job
@@discount724you sound insufferable
@@discount724 "if you are homeless, just buy a house"
I think the thing is when people see "worse" graphics they aren't thinking like actually worse, they're thinking "not your playstation exclusive for graphics snobs" levels of realism and maybe something with a more stylized look, that may not have all the bloom and vignettes and anti aliasing and stuff, but looks charming and cute, games like cuphead, or persona 5 or tf2 or overwatch and less like, insomniac spider man, or the last of us 2
should have used the word "simpler graphics" rather than the worse graphics, when i think of worse graphics, i think of a game with ugly graphics even when its 4k like 2022 Saints Row
Hell I'd be cool with Xbox 360 levels of graphics or something like Fortnite stylized but not advanced.
Pixel art isint the worst graphics polygons is
@@teamok1025 I didn't say it was the worst, I didn't even say it was worse, I literally cleared up that worse means, not photorealism, not necessarily worse graphical quality
@@masterdyeapp4512 yeah exactly
This is why i love indie games. They have more varied artstyles and are also short enough that it isn't completely overwhelming to finish them
Short to finish, with a real challenge for those who want more
To be fair, ‘indie’ games can sometimes be a crawl through a lot of junk to find the gems. But at least they are often underpriced junk and not charging premium prices for unfinished messes of a game. 😅😅 i tend to like retro games most. Many ports are at least complete games that run great!
I like indie games to but i don’t mind just not finishing a game why make them shorter?
And for additional content, you can download mods. But all that can probably depend on how old the indie game is.
Fr. Little nightmares is one of my favorite series ever because of this. Third installment coming in 2024!
I care less about a world that LOOKS ultrarealistic, and more about a world that FEELS real, and cohesive, with characters i actually care about
YAASSS 👏👏👏 Jk lol
But this is what I've been saying for so long. There is a huge uncanny disconnect from seeing a realistic looking character model and world looking static. The lack of physics and interactivity is disappointing. The Super Mario Wonder game feels more lively than some of the photorealistic looking games.
not feels "real" but rather immersive
THIS. Give me lesser graphics with wild interaction, even if doesn’t directly contribute to the forward movement of the game, I.e. breakable glass objects, physics objects, stackable stuff. Make a world feel real more than look real, and it will make up the difference in visual quality
A good example of this is Dark Souls and demon souls. Those games were filled with issues, but they were super amazing games still.
We need more B budget games that are more risky.
I care about not having endless filler padding just for a game to pretend to be bigger and I feel like the way to do this is to have more intimate and meaningful content created for it. We don't need the biggest open world we just need a world that feels alive and fun to be in.
The industry spent so much time trying to make games "cinematic" without remembering that games need gameplay.
the volume of people who aspire to, or failed out of, film and television is a big part of this. All it takes is 1 of the leads with an irrational drive to prove they deserve to enter hollywood creative circles to break a project.
@@notaninquisitor7274never thought about that, interesting.
Nintendo puts gameplay first 👍
its a feedback loop of making games easy for journalists who dont have enough time to get invested in a game so you get good ratings
Not to say I am the biggest fan of cinematic games, but they have their place.
Another thing about "worse graphics" is that makes it easier to run games on lower end hardware.
Love your channel, I'll be sticking around for a while to see what else you put out!
This. Devs should also include a option "Potato PC". Not everyone affords a PC upgrade.
This! This right here! I don't spend a fortune on laptops and don't update them every year.
and games with simpler graphics take up less space
The best selling open world game of all time, Minecraft, takes up less than 1 gb on download
The latest COD Remaster of Modern Warfare 3 takes up 250 gb of space and its not even an open world game, its just an fps with a ton of junk content such as skins and 4k tracers
Rooting for indies and the return of the AA game. It's insane to think that we've reached a point where some of the industry's biggest studios will only have time to release one or two games for an entire console generation.
Whoa... Just realized that could kill the Xbox and PlayStation. 😨
At least Nintendo will be fine. They're basically a AAA company with the sensibilities of an Indie studio.
@@thegodofalldragons except for Pokemon/Gamefreak, Indie company that stumbled into AAA territory but never upgraded their production to match
@@TheSchnieder6such a perfect way of describing it lmao. Gen 1 & 2 indie, Gen3-5 AA, ever since AAA and suffering for it
@@thegodofalldragons Agreed
BASED
being a software developer and having been on the end of some crunches, when I hear paid more, I hear better work life balance, ultimately there is no amount of money that it suddenly possible to sustainably work crunch hours. the base pay of game devs should go up generally though.
Other than game devs, other people who work in game production like qa testers and contractors also need to be paid better
Artists of every kind need to be paid more. You'd be shocked to know just how many people don't think that art is a real job despite 99% of media being made by artists.
Oh no, you have to sit in front a computer for more hours, like you weren't already doing that outside of work. I wonder how quickly you would fail and complain about doing overtime for manual labor work.
@@Souloux a shallow opinion from a shallow dinka
@@nazeerkhot3651 Welcome to the internet, where no one cares about your problems
Making a good game is hard as hell.
Tried to take the leap and make one myself around a year ago. All I did was draw character concepts and wrote a lore synopsis, which all took 6 months to complete. After I made my first teaser, I lost motivation entirely, and the project is currently shelved with all documents / assets saved to my computer in a folder gathering dust over time.
Serious credit to any game that makes it to release. Development opened my eyes to the jaw-dropping talent needed to produce masterpieces like Undertale. Games like that are a testament to amazing dedication and fantastic work ethic.
Can’t imagine pouring my soul into a game project for 5+ years only for it to flop massively, falling short of the original vision entirely. Honestly seems like it could cause a mid-life crisis.
Best wishes to all you game devs. Games are hard, but they’re just games. Don’t let them decide your worth, fell into that fallacy myself.
"All I did was draw character concepts and wrote a lore synopsis, which all took 6 months to complete."
lol sounds like you were trying to make a movie instead of a game
@@E_-_-that nonsense. A game has a story and art......
i feel you lol. Ive been brainstorming a game idea for about 3 years now, and I can barely get past the programming for a battle mechanic🤣
So table top rpgs are always an option.
I watched a gamedev tutorial years ago that said making the worldbuilding and characters before gameplay was one of the fastest ways to burn out, and it stuck with me. It makes sense I guess, cause then you're trying to cobble together a game based on pre-existing ideas that aren't actually a game. Then every mechanic and asset you're building is just a checklist of lore elements. Sounds a bit less playful to work with than making the raw mechanics in a vacuum and worrying about the other stuff after they're constructed. Most immediate example I can come up with is how Splatoon has some pretty complicated lore and extensive worldbuilding, but the earliest build for it was literal blocks shooting globs of black and white at each other way before the devs even conceptualized the squid idea. Once there's a solid game created with good feeling mechanics working, the worldbuilding can just naturally compliment it.
as an indie game dev, myself i hope indie games get more recognition they deserve
Undertale, Cuphead, Doki Doki Literature Club, Omori
@@sonicfanboy3375And for every one of those little indie titles that just explode in popularity, there are about 100 more that, even if they’re almost or just as good, languish in obscurity. It’s much easier to get into the indie market than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago, but that’s both a blessing and a curse.
@@FedoraKirb My favourite games have "meh" popularity but are loved and adored in their tiny niche. Outer Wilds, Rain World, Magicka, Into The Breach, Barotrauma, Journey. They all got their share of love and recognition, but far less than they actually deserve.
show game
I love Project Zomboid, Papers Please, Citizen Sleeper, Potion Craft, Placid Plastic Duck Simulator, Katana Zero & How Fish is Made!
I think by "worse graphics" people mean "stylized graphics", and if that's the case I highly agree. We've seen a lot of "realistic looking games with a lot of repetitive tasks". In comparison to that, games with stylized graphics -in particular indie games that are smaller in their worlds, time to complete but offer fresher experiences.
yes 6:10
Nah I mean straight-up worse, less poly lower quality textures etc. When I play a game from 5-10 years ago they don't look bad, even the ones trying to be realistic like Gran Turismo they still look more than good enough. Give me more cars and tracks with worse graphics and I'll be happy.
For me too much effort is put into graphics, I don't care if you spent 2 years developing tech that lets hair bounce realistically. I'd rather you had spent that time making the game fun instead.
@@CharlieHolmesT yeah man. Games from 10-20 years ago still feel awesome as hell.
hense why indie games have been superior to triple a since the original fnaf trilogy
No I literally mean worse graphics. I don't mind if it's realistic, but I don't want them to spend a million buck making sure I can see every bead of sweat on my character, and RDR2 should have had the guy stuck with horse ball duty do something else
People sometimes act annoyed when I call myself an "indie game player", but immediately change their mind when I point out that half their top 10 are indie games. So many people surprisingly don't think of games like Hollow Knight, Hades, or Dead Cells as "indie games" because so many people think indie game = bad game, and these are good so they assume they aren't.
Wow, I'm really happy to meet someone with omniscience. Can you tell me how the rest of my life will go, too?
I've been saying this for a while about graphics. A lot of games have been going for "as realistic as possible" as their art style lately, and that's just not an artstyle. You are not limited by anything, really, so create an artstyle that's unique to your game, that makes me recognize it immediately. Very few big games do this.
On the other hand, a lot of indie games do this out of sheer necessity. A single dude who can code often can't do much in the area of art, so he has to compromise, and the result is often minimalistic but recognizable, which is all a lot of people are asking for, really.
Original Cave Story
Undertale
Zombie Town
I think that's a really stupid take, realism is an art style whether you like it or not that is an art style that artist have done that's just disrespectful to most artists that do realism
Nice breakdown
I interpret it as 'Stress takes the soul out of work.' So many games now feel soulless and empty in contrast to older ones
Definitely can feel the stress and rush thru some of these games
@myonfriend the people working on them are
With realistic graphics:
"Hey, after school you wanna play this awesome game with me?"
"Oh sorry, my computer cant handle that"
With worst graphic:
"Hey, after school you wanna play this awesome game with me?"
"Sure let do this!"
молодец, товарищ
So true! My old computer who could handle all of my steam games and even the sims with multiple packs and generators could not get through the tutorial level of Balder’s gate without crashing. A year later i now have a much stronger computer and can now finally play it.
exactly!
EXACTLYYYYY!!!!
Buy console you pc simp
For me, as a 3D artist, I always have the feeling that hyperrealism and creativity are inversely proportional, the more realistic you make a game (whether from an artistic or gameplay point of view) it seems that the more limiting it becomes, maybe that's because I've always consumed many Japanese games throughout my life, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix, etc...
It's because realism becomes a strain as it dips into irony. It doesn't matter how good something looks when the moment you move it's 15
that is why I don't like hyperrealistic looking games.
I get what you mean, but its funny seeing Square Enix on this list when they were sorta a pioneer of the realism movement with the post-pixel era of Final Fantasy. The CG in 7-9 were graphic marvels, both realistically and stylistically. The environments in the PS2 FFs mimmicked real textures and environments incredibly for the time. But you can certainly say TWEWY, Kingdom Hearts, and such were more on the stylized side
You're not right but I disagree with the opposite of your statement more so
Hyperrealism can be really cool in some instances, photography isnt less artistic than animation for instance. If I wanted something to be really creepy, hyperrelaism would be one good choice. But its a choice. Dont just assume hyperrealism is the option. Final Fantasy (which is stylized especially the characters) wouldn't be as sick as it is if it werent for the crazy juxtaposition of its wierdness and its graphics. Like that wierd-ass Asian restaurant gives me strange vibes that I like.
The Iron Triangle sounds like a fighting game character's finishing move
Nah, sounds like the ultimate item on an rpg, like the tri-force
Or some bad, C list supervillain
Could be something like your Puppet/Set-Up character, a military torture technician that likes to "fetch the toys" themselves and considers the "usual room" to just be a nice luxury, but any place will do. It might involve summoning two of their goons to immobilize the target, before they gang up on them to do something horrible.
I was thinking The Iron Triangle was a prison in a game
It sounds like it would be the Iron Shiek's finisher.
One of my favorite childhood books is "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie." It perfectly encapsulates the mindset of needing better and better graphics and not being sufficed with anything less.
Isn't that book right wing propaganda against helping refugees/homeless people?
When the CEOs of these gaming companies have never played games properly in their life, it is not surprising how the AAA industry is in this state.
You can tell when a game is made by someone that enjoys the hobby, for sure.
@@pizza-piTerraria, the only reason that game keeps getting amazing updates is because the Devs love playing their game
Blizzard showed of Devs playing Diablo 4, and they didn't have a clue what they were doing. People love blaming corporations and CEOs, as they should, but forget it takes a lot of talentless, clueless people, over 9000 of them in fact, to make the only ARPG in the last 30 years where the resistance stat just doesn't work. Johnny CEO doesn't tell the team to make the bosses all have 3 moves each, with no mechanics. Johnny CEO doesn't tell the team to load up every single other person's inventory and stash into memory, causing memory leaks and crashes. The industry is full of complete clowns, and everyone keeps ignoring that aspect. Case in point, you can watch these dummies cry about Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 on their own personal profiles. Yes the corporations are evil, yes the CEOs are soul sucking scumbags, but the industry is full of idiots that are rubbing their collective braincell together, and making completely shoddy products. People need to stop ignoring this.
@@SeasoningTheObeseGood point. But the higher ups choose who to hire. So we have a leadership that doesn't play games, hiring developers that don't know anything about games. And the cycle continues.
It is like having a music or art company run by people that have no idea about the subject. I agree, everyone is to blame. We don't know who did the mistakes and who knows how to do things right. So let's not harass game devs please. The CEOs are swimming in money regardless if the game sells well or not.
@@rumplstiltztinkerstein "Let's not harass game devs" I disagree. People used to get destroyed for selling garbage, now we have to coddle them, pretend we have no say in anything, all while eating the shit they shovel, while they insult us.
Games with less money spent on graphics and padding might actually be able to take risks and have creative gameplay.
Creativity is lacking in the current game industry.
we could have so much better stuff. there's so much money spent on graphics that it's insane to just think about what AI could be like in video games if devs could rather focus the money on that.
@@jeffboy4231 or physics.
we had Half-Life 2 and it feels like since then not that much did change.
but yeah...AI in most games is still "uh i heard shots from over there and saw how my mate got obliterated by shotgun pellets...don't know who's there but...yeah i guess i run the same way."
@@jeffboy4231 realistically AI will mostly be used to help create clones of already successful formulas in a faster and cheaper way, as a shortcut for companies to capitalize on hype in the most cost-effective manner
if you're looking for fresh ideas for visuals and creative gameplay, PEOPLE have tons of those, but they're often being killed by big studios as they're deemed potentially not profitable enough (hence the popularity of Indie games, where such ideas can be explored without being bound to market research)
t. Art Director in the videogame industry
@@thisisfyne Dude I think they mean AIs in games; like NPCs, not AI being used to make games
@@quisquiliarum7710 oooh that's possible too.. good point
i think a thing that personally bothers me is that games with realistic graphics tend to end up looking similar since they're imitating the same thing, while games with more stylized graphics have a more visually distinct identity to them, and are much easier to tell apart when you don't know anything else about them (just speaking from personal experience). whenever i've seen unlabeled gameplay footage i've found interesting in a video essay, i have a much easier time to later recognize the game somewhere else when it's more stylized. in addition, realistic graphics easily step into uncanny valley for me personally and can make my gaming experience actively uncomfortable, so it's definitely not my cup of tea. the rise of the "spiderverse style" in 3D animated movies is very exciting to me for a similar reason!
Important conversation for all game fans to be having and keep having; to analyze the problem, strategize, and take action however we actually can. Thank you for using your platform to further that cause!
This is exactly how you should approach all problems in life. 1. Assume there is a solution, 2. Analyze the problem to form a mental map of it, 3. Calculate potential routes of resolution / improvement 4. Calculate the best way to actualize it 5. Execute
@@whirlwind872 Step 0: identify the problem with others to accumulate folks to help execute steps 0-5.
The biggest change of the game industry is that it used to be led by a coalition of Programmers and artists.
This is no longer the case.
You are correct!
"Led", how are you defining that? Those old devs are still making great games and we can still play them.
@@emikochan13 they are no longer in any control of their original IPs or the money circulation of the games industry does not center around them. NMedia attention, reach etcetera except in specific cases.
@@dawndarklight44 They were all new IPs at one point, people should just support good games rather than nostalgia over ip
I've been working in software development for 5 years now. On a few occasions, I've been asked to work overtime to finish a product, and I've refused every time. I understand that a company will cut you loose for that, but when nearly the whole department refuses and pushes management's poor planning back on them, you're not losing your job anytime soon. Maybe I'm already jaded on software.
miracle you haven't been laid off
@@mogo-wc7xw that was mostly my last job, which was so mismanaged that I'm fairly sure all the money the company made was through scamming the DoD. My current one doesn't ask for overtime.
@@CocoHutzpah lmao
Wildly specific but my favorite is shorter games that can last forever if you want them to. I'm big on tycoon games and things like Stardew valley. You *could* finish the story in a few hours if you wanted to, and you could stop playing after doing so. Or you can meander through the plot and then afterwards make up your own goals and fun and keep going forever. Helps with having limited money to spend on games and so so much free time.
Age of Wonders bro
or katana zero where you can play the game in let's say 8 hours or something and then play the hard mode and die a million times. the hard mode is basically the same levels with new enemy placement but it changes so much about this game, it's so worth it so if you like hotline miami or something, go play it.
Hades too
Same, I miss all those old tycoon games like roller coaster tycoon and zoo tycoon
Hate roguelites and random generation it just feels like filler to me. But I love shorter games that feel directly to the point.
I like realistic graphics just fine. But I LOVE distinct, expressive, art styles.
$20 for 17 hours spent of fun? Someone is complaining!? Seriously? By that standard, it's WAY more entertainment value than any current movie ticket price (no matter how good the movie is).
I could not agree more with this. I have friends who work in game dev and the only thing I've been hearing is how much pressure they're now under to crank these games out. It looks like AAA devs have lost that passion for games, but the devs haven't lost that passion; it was ripped from them by executives who demand better work on the cheap done yesterday.
Man it's a real shame that this channels numbers aren't as big as they could be I'm so serious when I say this is some of the most quality content on the platform
His graphics are just too good
watch the video in it's full length, like it (or dislike if you want doesn't really matter) and write a comment and you're doing your work to make youtube show his videos to more people :)
@@Buttersaemmel amen
I work in design, with a programming/project management undergrad and am about to complete my Master's in Business Admin. Literally have diagnosed PM issues in nine figure businesses doing consulting work. And this is the best breakdown of Total Quality Management I've ever seen. Seriously, should be required watching.
Whats funny is I believe making "ultra realistic" games are much easier now than artistic games. Realistic assets are practically drag and drop now a days, and because its a lot easier, the optimization also takes a hit. Lighting is becoming less and less artistically placed in favor of drag and drop ray traced lighting. Call of Duty for example is becoming ultra realistic, but the gameplay sucks now and the performance has taken massive hits
It's weird looking back at games from the N64 and PS1 how lots of games tried to be "realistic" (GoldenEye and Metal Gear for example) and were prised despite visually aging like shit, while more stylized games were made fun of despite being the games that visually aged the best (MegaMan Legends and Castlevania SOTN for ex), and even funnier considering how there are no 3D retro-looking indie games trying to look like the "realistic" old games, only as the stylized games.
Just a T-posing model on a manipulated wire frame or some goofy mocap in a massive open world. Job done. Oh shit we forgot the story, gameplay, and QA bug testing... Ship it anyway
@@juanrodriguez9971t's about timing. Back them, being more realistic was totally new and people were experiencing it for the first time. I'd argue that since the PS3 gen this has become less appealing because It was commom. I mean, graphics can still improve, but the steps are always smaller. Jumping from the SNES to metal gear solid or ff7 was a HUGE leap, like mindblowing. At least that's how I felt.
@@navdragoni it's just interesting to know how some of the most mind blowing tricks got old so fast while those who were ignored became the most praised and we'll remembered. I get how mind-blowing it had to be to go from cartoon pixel art to "realistic" to actually realistic, that doesn't change how the unforgiving pass of time decided who will be remembered for it's visuals and who had to be forgotten or ignored or painful to go back.
That's exactly what everyone is doing on youtube with their "if -game- was made on unreal engine", like, sure it's HD, but there's no soul mate. And funny thing is everyone is eating it and saying "woaw amazing!", but when it's done by an official studio like with Sonic Frontier eveyrone gets mad because there's no art direction.
I would rather have games with Wind Waker DA than those creepy "zelda 4K unreal engine fangames", which are creepy as hell and run like cr*p
Another motivation for wanting games to reduce their scope is that they keep using "games are more expensive than ever to make!" as the excuse to increase the price of games, include multiple season passes, and run MTX in games that we already payed for, all of which also significantly negatively impacts the gaming experience and I can't speak for everyone but I personally would rather prefer we pulled way the hell back and made actual games instead of money printing machines. And these games aren't _just_ artificially lengthened to meet player demand, they're often done so to make "live services" so they can completely capture your attention and have more opportunities to peddle their cash grabs at you. And NONE of this is worth it. I would happily go back to PS2/PS3 level fidelity if it gave up all this _trash._
I LOVE your videos. I really appreciate the fact that you dive into and research these topics over parroting others' opinions on social media, or simply summarizing work other people have done. your scripts are to the point, concise, and purposeful. I just really like seeing an essay youtuber actually do it right, lol
The problem is, people complain but still buy
Yeah. I feel like companies like Activision or EA can have their people commit several warcrimes publicly, yet billions of people will still purchase their barely functioning games and giving it high sales just because they slapped the "Call of Duty" or "FIFA" name on it.
Agree, gamers complain about ubisoft and EA yet those 2 companies sell a fuckton of money everytime they release something.
unfortunately the gamers that dont care greatly outnumber the ones who do
Theyre addicted dude, video games can be used as drug and a lot of "gamers" are actually just junkies, my brother is addicted to games all he does is eat all day and game all day
Not the same people, those that buy CoD are casual players who have no clue about a more bountiful river elsewhere
Two of my most satisfying game experiences (Sayonara Wild Hearts and Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion) each clocked in at under 3 hours.
Meanwhile, most big budget games I enjoyed at the start end up over staying their welcome by a dozen hours or so.
SWH is a f*king gem!
Turnip Boy is goated for the Kakyoin cherry, I got such a big laugh out of it
Rerorerorerorerorerorero
I saw my mom play turnip boy, and it looked really fun lmao, I’ll give it a shot
I replayed Donkey Kong Country the other day, which can also be beat under 3 hours, and I was thinking how it felt like a comfortable amount of time. It's short by today's standards and the replay value means it could be longer, but it's not too short. The last long game I played that had me asking for even more length was S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
i havent beat turnip boy, but i love the cute artstyle (also how they had to censor tax on the app store to turnip boy commits t*x evasion.)
Game devs need creative unions like writers and screen actors do.
Unions are not necessarily good for the workers.
Ever get a crash marked on your clean driving record because someone would be fired if he got another crash he'd be fired?
@@andrewgreeb916 not really sure what you mean by that analogy or what it has to do with unions.
I want bags of potato chips and nachos that are at least 75% full, and have only full sized completely unbroken chips all the way to the bottom of the bag.
okay now that’s unrealistic
so first of all: I actually like when the chips are broken, idk they taste better. now for my main point: your demands are actually paradoxical in a way since more unbroken chips means more air space between them (really the smaller the chips are/the more broken they are, the tighter they can stick together).
Sure. That IS possible. It will just cost you 50 dollars
I was thinking about this a few days ago, I miss when videogames used to look like videogames and not like CGI movies, somehow it was more immersive since you had to complete the picture with your imagination plus gameplay was more fun generally and developers took more risc for good or for bad sometimes 😅.
the risk has more to do with how limiting shareholders and the people above are as u need to ensure a profit and if not or not big enough they will just say ¡but look at fifa!
@@agssilv5919 Investors were still a thing in the early days, but with smaller amounts of money, a failed project was something they could realistically handle (not to mention they still hadn't figured out they could cram in microstransactions and the like). Nowdays though? They've gotten so big that not turning a profit is devastating.
I miss the looks of the likes of PS2 Ratchet and Clank, while quite count the poligons they look outright magical from the artstyle
There's something so wonderful about Hotline Miami 1 really setting the pace/aesthetic of the 2010's to slightly retro, neon violence. Of course cyberpunk existed long before (tabletop game was from the 80's), but HM1 really pushed the rest of the scene when it went viral. All this from a game I can beat in 1-2 hours, almost always in one sitting.
I think games made for limited (portable) hardware are very important. hardware limitations help keep graphics and length in check. As a not dev I don't know if it takes less time to make though . there's also something kind of magical about a game that pushes it's hardware right to the edge in a competent way ... I am also old and miss the glory days of the PSP and 3DS .
Graphically limited games (either by hardware or cost) can't go for fidelity so they focus on lighting and artstyle and it shows. It's also easier to get right since you don't have to perfectly mimic reality.
A good old example would be Wind Waker, so much effort went into making the lighting and artstyle look great it became timeless. Most good indie games follow this.
Stylized assets for games with simple art style can be faster to make, but it's dependant on the exact style - usually it's chosen to make the project feasible in the first place. Realistic assets take time to make from scratch, but most studios rely heavily on using already exiating scan data and so on to make realistic assetd, which also speeds up the process to be potentially faster, although integrating all that together requires a lot more tech work. Just more specialized people for every single thing. Don't think it can be abstracted to some exact rule, but we'll chosen stylized graphics will make the project doable at least.
@@Coprium same goes for other zelda games as well honestly, say what you want about skyward sword, but its artstyle is amazing
It's kind of interesting (or tragic, you pick) to think that these hundred-hour-long-game developers are doing large amounts of "dead" work that only the most dedicated 100%ers will see. At some point, doing every single quest in Skyrim is going to be beyond the point of fun for most people, yet someone had to design, program, voice act, etc...all of those, probably during crunch - and how much of that extra sludge is going to be genuinely narratively fulfilling, or a satisfying challenge to the player? I agree with you completely; shorter games with a higher density of actually meaningful gameplay is the way to go.
That, and good gameplay with a strong art style trumps sheer weight of length or graphical hyperrealism, even if you're not a Small Indie Dev Team. Just look at a game like Hi-Fi Rush - a commercial and popular success without being a million hours long or "pores on the skin" level graphically.
Literally, their selling us movies dressed up as "games" when they hardly work/focus on the GAMEPLAY!
I think that Cruelty Squad being one of the weirdest games out there, and still being fun as hell actually says a lot about this.
It's interesting, and I like it in a way, but it's the most depressing thing I ever played)
One of my favorite small indie games, A Short Hike, is a great example of the argument made. The art style is very stylized, with its pixelated camera filter and cartoony characters. It’s a very short game too, clocking in at around only 2 hours, but it was a blast trying to 100% the little game and finding out all of its little secrets.
I highly recommend it if you want a casual game to have fun and explore in.
I love that game so much, it's a rare thing to connect so deeply with something so simple.
Its a masterpiece. I originally redeemed it free on epic some years ago but i went and bought it on steam for me and other 2 buddies of mine, i needed to support the devs for a gem with that much soul poured into it
I played that game too, it was super enjoyable and relaxing!
I think believably chopping down trees would be satisfying and fun.
Maybe it got cut because they were concentrating on the graphics.
go play minecraft or something
Agreed with all your points! I haven’t even FINISHED Cult of the Lamb but I still feel I got my moneys worth. Not everything is made for everyone and that’s fine.
I want less buggier games with worse graphics and a consistent framerate
As if youtube couldnt rot our attention span enough, here comes: Short format content the game
yeah its called a call of duty lobby and its existed since 2003
@@Lextorias there was a long winding narrative of people slurring eachother. Should be a crime call that short format content
I don’t think short form games are a manifestation of the low attention span phenomenon; it’s more akin to the relationship between feature-length films/miniseries and network shows that are long for the sake of being long. Like, sure it’s great that there’s so much of Gray’s Anatomy to watch, but given the choice, I’d way rather sit down and watch the one season of Squid Game that watch all of Gray’s Anatomy, because Squid Game is much more structured and cohesive, and the story is going somewhere, whereas Gray’s Anatomy is basically the same thing over and over, written with no end goal in mind. It’s written to go on for as long as they can get people to watch it, whereas Squid Game is written with the goal of making people think when they get to the end, “Wow, that was a high quality production, and a well-executed story.”
I think it’s also worth pointing out that 20 hour games aren’t some new thing. If anything, games have gotten longer in the last ten or twenty years. Length isn’t a bad thing, but I think the way a lot of games these days are padded out with lower-quality content in order to meet length expectations suggests we’re more willing to spend hours on low-quality content than we were before.
i 100% feel the same way. Studios are too afraid of taking chances because the budgets are so high right now, so everything feels formulaic.
I'm a programmer by trade. As is probably true of most devs at this point in time, I originally started because I loved video games and wanted to work on them.
The book "Game Coding Complete" (I think I had the 4th edition) by Mike McShaffry and Rez Graham set me straight quickly. These guys both worked for major development studios and shared stories from their time in industry. One thing that stuck was mention of "the Century Club," a joke about how hard they had to work - 100+ hour weeks often enough for them to see it regularly.
I never heard of that book. Been working what's going to be my first commercial game and it sounds interesting. Yeah it's a gargantuan amount of work. All day every day for months and months. I don't think I'd want to do it for a company unless the people were real cool and the pay was good too.
Great video!
As an agile coach with 20+ years in the trenches, I‘ve always been baffled how far behind the video game industry is on modern work and product development methods.
As someone who does enjoy their long open world games at times. I do appreciate smaller indie games with creative art styles with solid experiences that don't overstay with their welcome unless you absolutely want to. I adore Hades, Tunic, and Pizza Tower so much. You can put alot of hours into it if you want to.
I can definitely enjoy open world games, but I think many are far bigger than I'd like them to be. AC origins was close to ideal size for me and then they're like let's keep making them bigger! It's still good but I just don't have the time for it.
I do like my single player campaigns though as well
Those people who are in the mindset of "well, indies exist" don't get the point, it would be ten times better to have a polished Game with amazing artstyle and badass gameplay but Big studios are just focusing in bigger games and better graphics that causes them to delay those games for like Half a decade now, When ignoring those things would be much Easier to just make banger after banger of profitable and cheap games that take 2 years at much. The thing is indie games are cool but they don't have enough budget to make both a Good presentation and Good gameplay and at the same time polish the thing enough before lunch. It usually is just 1 or 2 of those 3.
I think you're gonna see the collapse of a lot of these AAA companies and also see some indie studios become major publishers. A lot of AAA companies are ran by greedy executives who want to make the most money they can by releasing the most half-baked, micro-transaction-ridden product they can while also gaslighting their users into thinking their games are good and that this is normal, where as indie companies want to make the best product they can with money being important but secondary.
Almost every single person who is remotely into gaming has caught on to it and aren't playing AAA games, because they're expensive and the end product they get is terrible, and there's a gaming PR disaster like every week. It's not gonna happen overnight, but you'll definitely see it in the coming years, and these AAA companies aren't going to back down or have a change in leadership. They're going to double down on their greed and be in for this collapse to the very end.
@@s1nistr433 Yeah, I don’t Bethesda, Ubisoft and activision making it past 2030,
I'd love for AAA-studios to have a contest and come up with the best possible game within a 12 months timeframe. All gameplay, little time for graphics and a small story. I'd play that
I just wanted to say that I love the way you talk in a very clear and calming way, with a pretty good dictation, and without doing any kind of exagerated expressions. As a non-native english speaker, I can understand you perfectly. You're doing an amazing job and I wish that more people discover and follow you content!
Understandable. Indie games are pretty baller.
Not all of them
@@imsentinelprime9279that’s crazy
Man of few words. I like him
My favorite Indie game is Doom 1 (it technically counts).
Battle pixel, or whatever it’s called, is a good example of this. That game kicks battlefields ass.
You actually list your sources and things used in your vid????
Man, I think you're my favourite creator this month already. Gonna binge em up and hit that bell and sub. Well deserved brother.
i genuinely think ps2 graphics are beautiful, its almost like reading a book where you dont have the complete visual representation of it, and so you need to imagine the details and nuances. idk how to explain but when i play these somewhat early 3d games like ps1/ps2 i fell like the graphics makes me imagine everything more vividly. like when playing half life, i like seeing a cylinder and having to complete the image in my head to create a granade (sorry if bad eng)
I agree. I love Super Mario 64 for this reason, it feels like a weird dream.
For me, a major component for me to continue playing a game is the story. If it doesn't grab my attention within the first chapter than I will more than likely not finish it. This applied to games like FF10 and hopefully FF16 after the demo, but it also included games like Valiant Hearts and Hades.
Was about to comment saying, "if it's such a problem, then stop buying it" right as your collective action segment started to roll. Glad you mentioned that. Wish it was more integral to the video instead of just running as the credits roll. Makes the important part feel like an after thought
Something I feel could have been brought up is the lack of creative freedom for developers in larger studios. Due to publishers wanting to follow trends, many mechanics are sometimes pushed into products that the developers would not have pushed otherwise. Take for instance all the blatantly forced battle royale modes so many games got and microtransactions. It also correlates to modern games being "safer" in terms of design, not taking risks as its an easy revenue stream. This is less of a problem for indie games as they are not chained to a set of rules for their development.
When focusing on the main objectives, The Binding of Isaac is about 11 Hours in length. If you're a gamer that strives to see all aspects of the game, you are likely to spend around 138 Hours to obtain 100% completion. So yea, that doesn't mean the game is 140 hours long, it just means it has a lot of hidden depth behind the rogue-like loop. Otherwise is just an 11 hour finish and switch game. Which is shorter than Cult of the Lamb, if you really want to compare the 2.
And this is why I love indies we're getting a lot of games now with hours of replayability even if the core game is short.
This is why I have always said time is the worst "metric" ever invented. It should be about enjoyment anyway. Not how pretty it is, or how long did it take, *did you have fun*.
@@pizza-piyeah exactly a 2000 hour watching paint dry simulator isn’t better than some 5 hour game that’s actually fun
I want more games like Stray. It was just perfect. Quality, right price, Right length, good enough graphics and just fun
I can confidently say that any game where you play as a cat is good.
Stray was such a surprise treat. The story went in a way i did not expect and very charming.
Meow
good enough graphics? it looks amazing
look not to ruin the fun or anything but the gameplay kind of just boils down to press a button to jump over a platform with no consequences, but hey, you can play as a cat at least 👍
My absolute favourite releases recently was hi-fi rush it's just a perfect game imo it wasn't rushed it a decent length and best of all it's just plain fun! No micro transactions, no subscriptions, no loot boxes, etc. just a fun hack and slash with amazing animation and art style and it's funny af
I think that there is an argument for worse graphics.
Something that stood out to me when watching Bungie's Halo 3 video is the amount of work that increased when they transitioned to HD.
I will say, roguelike games specifically are made simply to let you feel stronger each play. They aren't "Meaningless" the meaning is to grind and by the time you actually 100% it, you feel super accomplished. The biggest thing with roguelikes is they are for a specific type of people.
Ya, those that will mistakenly put immense amounts of effort and time into these endless game loops to the detriment of personal real-world achievement.
@synnical77 if you're trying to say roguelikes are bad because people waste time on them instead of doing something real, you could say that about any game. if you're saying something else then im not sure what you mean.
By that logic every hard game ever created would be a rogue like. Even dark souls would be rogue like, because of what you have described is the exact same way that game was designed.
@arjuna6224 no, that's not at all what I mean. I'm saying that's why they are the way they are. not that the only thing that makes a roguelike a roguelike is what I said in my comment. you missed the whole point of my comment.
@@d3monicwolf why even call it rogue like, all you said is that a rogue like means a game where after hours of grinding, finally completing that hard level gives you an accomplishment,which is basically every hard game ever.
Holy hell your channel skyrocketed and grew so much from last I checked you out, congratulations! Been a fan for a while, and thank you for your continued content!
Nintendo and most indie games are doing a great job of meeting these needs, and I am super excited to see the Steam Deck doing well so far since it could mean a future for indie consoles
The Steam Deck just made handheld PCs more popular.
An indie console is something completely different.
@@fairphoneuser9009 True. But Steam is the indie game powerhouse, you can't really disagree with that.
@@fairphoneuser9009 as if pc gaming isnt the best way to get indie games out of the studio because you don't have to get it approved with some body
If I am being honest even as an indie supporter I still dont think Indies need their own consoles. Steam and normal consoles are enough for them.
I do love a game with a beginning, middle and end, slight side quest necessary to move the gameplay forward and many fun side quest that just give you more goodies for winning them. I do not have enough time to linger on too lengthy games. I could play slightly lengthy games back in highschool but when you have a job and several obligations, going for long playtimes is rare.
Short fun makes you feel like you have achieved something when you finish them and it feels good. A too long game feels like a never-ending fun-turned-to-nightmare stuff.
You're right; for me, it's much more about having strong art directions, and far less about the graphical fidelity. If a game's art direction is displeasing, there is no amount of polishing that will save it, and, personally, I can't stand a focus on hyper-realism-- at best, it's only ever an uncanny-valley.
I love your videos and your style of presentation, simple, to the point, frank and of course the fact that you express yourself very well(the words you use and the tone of your voice) thanks for another great video !
17:53 yeah to comment on that, we as a gamer society kinda need to realize that games are not for gamers anymore. There are a majority population of casuals that play call of duty games that makes up a huge slice of the money pie. Games cater to newer demographics. We arent going to make a huge dent in the AAA industry unless we all agree to stop buying AAA games across the board and only buy and play indie games.
15:24 DO NOT GIVE THE COMPANIES IDEAS
Excellent commentary an editing. Glad this video showed up in my recommendations (YT has been really off the mark on that in recent months). The Iron Triangle graphics were fantastic, including how they changed in tandem with your talking points. Kudos!
For me, a games aesthetic and characters are really important to me. I recently played Master Detective Archives: Raincode, and is it the best game..? No. But the world and characters are just so charming, I had fun even if it felt a little too short. A cool style draws me in way more than a realistic style.
Motion twin (the creations of dead cells) are amazing with dev times and avoidance of crunch time. Truly a pillar of what the industry standard should be.
An incredible video as always. Couldn’t have come at a better time either! Last hour of my shift was infinitely improved, and its a topic that’s been on my mind since I preordered Diablo 4. As always, I loved watching, and I can’t wait for next time!
I hate people who thinks "I paid this game x amount so it should at least be x hours long" so much. It's because of that kind of people if now games are made so painfully long for no reason at all. It's just a stupid way of valuing your time too, you want a game to last 60 hours even if the game sucks asses just because you paid it 60? People should value how much FUN and ENTERTAINMENT not using the completely arbitrary and random metric of "1 hours = 1 buck". Who even decided that? Why is it not 50 cent or 5 bucks instead of 1? It makes absolutely no sense.
The Order 1886 was harshly criticised because it was "too short" but I would kill to have a game like that again. It didn't drag long for no reason, it was straight to the point and it did what it wanted to do really good.
im pretty open to all types of games, even the open world stuff, i enjoy completing stuff even if its “meaningless” cause its just nice for me whilst enjoying short games at the same time like Undertale and Cuphead which are some of my favorite games. Graphics never really mattered to me as long as they dont make my eyes hurt.
I don't want to be nitpicky too much because I agree with the sentiment you mention and it's a good video, but some points need to be pushed back at least from an indie perspective. With regards to short vs long game, maybe some people on social medias "say" they want shorter ones, but in game dev circles a lot of people are analysing what games are selling for marketing and sales planning: it's pretty clear that a big section of players (aka most of Steam) much prefer longer games (generally through replayability). This also goes into the management triangle with which I don't agree (mostly as a project manager myself lol). There are games that took a couple of months to make and have very long gameplay. Here's list of a few games that, for a (generally) small team (1-3) were made (generally) under a year: Another World, Binding of Isaac, A Short Hike, Paper's Please, Hotline Miami, SNKRX, 20 minutes till dawn, etc. even more recently Endoparasitic, etc. And it's not just indie: if you look at older games, you can find examples (just to name one, Rollercoaster Tycoon). What I'm saying is that although graphics are really the crux of the matter, the "type" of game also has an impact: less so the playing time itself. A very good roguelike/roguelite or management/simulation game can be done with low graphics in a reasonable time (low scope) and will still provide extended gameplay and enjoyment for the players (in the tens if not hundreds of hours). (Also, small nitpick, but IMO cuphead IS sophisticated, it is a highly polished 2D in a very professional style. Compared to the total size of the team, the number of artists/animators/art contractors is higher than the rest.) Good video and discussion!
100% agree with this video
if a game is short but feels great to play and doesn't keep dragging on forever, you'll be a lot more likely to replay it as well; that whole "cost per game length" thing assumes you're only playing through that game once
my top 3 favorite games this year (as in, games I played for the first time this year, not games that came out this year) are Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, Lunistice and Final Fantasy IV; one cartoony-looking modern AAA game, one obscure indie game with pretty-much-PS1 graphics, and one game older than me (well, at least the original version of it) with pixel art graphics. they took me 30 hours, 15 hours and ~50 hours to complete, respectively, but every single last one of these hours was enjoyable, with Ratchet & Clank making me wish we were getting more AAA game like this nowadays. It hasn't even been 2 months since I 100%'ed the first two, yet I'm already starting to wanna replay them lol (FFIV I finished like 2 weeks ago. will prolly wanna replay it again later tho)
but I do enjoy some long games *IF* they follow this "every moment spent playing feels worth it" pattern; Hollow Knight and Epic Battle Fantasy 5 (an indie turn-based RPG Flash game from 2018, also the game with my favorite soundtrack) take a really long time to complete but would definitely be in top 10 favorite games since they just, feel, good, to play.
This is by far the best video i've seen on this topic. Thank you so much for making this, I completely agree on all points. It also makes me feel better about my own projects since as only one dude and a couple friends, we can't make games that are crazy long or super visually impressive, lol. Trying our best though.
We definitely need way more double A games like Senua's sacrifice and Hifi Rush. There's clear quality and polish there but it's not lacking in scope either. That would give us a nice buffer of games in between the big triple A releases.
but AA don´t usually bring big profits so no big studio will devote work force towars those projects
No
oh hey thanks for the iron triangle part. I came across that way back in my university days, my professor used "effort" instead of scope but everything else is exactly the same and I have lived by these teachings ever since. just never knew it was called the iron triangle. fucking sick name too.
Given that most of us have massive game backlogs that we will likely never get through, it seems pretty evident that short games that don't require a huge time investment are in demand.
One of the best gaming experiences I've ever had was 'It Takes Two'. It's about 12'ish hours in length but every minute was special.
Wish more games embraced stylized looks
"Iron Triangle" GREAT call out!! your example for this is on point, really illustrates the issue with AAA expectations.
Been gaming since the Long Long Ago -- the Atari days of Pong and Defender and Donkey Kong and E.T. I watched the graphics race define the industry for decades. Hell, I rode on the hype train as they accelerated what was possible both graphically and content-wise for games. But, right around the time 3D started in, there started to be a schism. Some of us recognized that graphical fidelity didn't correlate with a better game. We didn't realize how much, exactly, but we did see that aiming for "realistic" was going to age a game more quickly than a solid art direction with stylization. I think the best example of this was Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker.
Fast forward to today. I've watched my once niche hobby shared by very few of my contemporaries become an unstoppable multi-billion dollar industry. Gaming is now ubiquitous -- it has even informed reward programs for Starbucks. And just like the movie and music industry, that has not behooved it at all. Now, I find myself drifting away from the hype trains for the AAA space. I'm not interested in God of War: Ragnarok. FFXVI barely appeals.
Gimme the AA, the indies, the passion projects worked on by that one person who made the game in their spare time over the course of years. I want them to succeed. I want them to get rich off their work. I want to topple the billion dollar gaming industry by a thousand cuts as we realize the waste, excess, and suffering of AAA games. I want to watch their CEOs stand on stage confused as people stop giving a shit about the newest cutting age dumpster fire game. I want people to rise up cheering when the small to mid-size devs show off their game they spent 2 or three years of moderate 40 hour work weeks creating.
I know it ain't gonna happen. But man, how great it'd be.
good video. my one issue with it is I felt you might have misunderstood the "worse graphics" part of the meme. you discussed this as if it were solely a demand for stylised graphics rather than photo realistic, whereas it's a bit more complicated than that.
for me there are two main reasons for wanting worse graphics, the first is the effect on the devs, which you covered in other sections. but the second benefit, the one you didn't mention was the effect on hardware and frame rate. take The Last Of Us 2 as an example, if Big Naughty Dog Neil came to me and said would you prefer graphics similar in quality to the PS4 version of part 1, I wouldnt have thought twice, I'd happily sacrifice some fidelity for a performance improvement, in fact I do exactly that on PC all the time.
funnily enough the conclusion about graphics still applies, a higher frame rate won't make a bad game good, but it can make a good game better
Another reason would be the amount of time invested in making the game gets far too long, trilogies don't exist in a generation anymore. There's also the fact the publishers want devs to make less risk less imaginative games because games cost a lot to make. So most creative games now are indie.
I focused on stylized as a way to explain that you can still make a game with less demanding visuals look good, but you’re right that a large part of it is making the visuals less demanding in the first place
one of my favorite games ive played in the last few months is Vampire Survivors. Graphically it looks like it could of came out on Sega Genesis, yet its so simple and addictive
This is why I’ve worked in more indies games in recent years. I have a lot of recent AAA games that I never beat. I love coming back to them now and then but indie games are a change of pace for me. Plus there are games I never would of taken a second look at like hades, hollow knight etc.
Your channel and this video are making a difference in the industry. If only a little, it's something better than nothing. I believe! In the larger scheme of things, THIS is a step in the right direction.
cult of the lamb wasnt criticised for being too short. it was criticised because of its bugginess, lack of depth and the fact that it was incredibly short at launch
Metroid Dread is the perfect example of how this mentality can make an incredible game
What? The devs had bad conditions, it was a pretty long game by Metroid standards, and the graphics were very good for the system with a shit ton of graphics, and even problems for the final product (like insane loading times and lag)
@@internetguy7319 man gamers are so whiny and picky lol crybabies buy the game or dont buy it geez
I think a good example that comes to mind is Corpse Party. I rarely get scared anymore by "polished" horror games, but CP had so much horrifying elements in its storytelling and, along with the use of a few moving pixels, made me lefitimately feel unnerved. The player's imagination added so much - and I feel this is something that big studios just don't cater to enough.
The Dishonored Backgrounds are a nice touch
As someone who can't afford the latest Consoles/PC hardware, all the push for "muh realism" flew over my head because I could only play games at lower settings or straight up just indie games that arent graphically demanding in the first place. I played them all the same because they were fun, not because I could see a characters pores or some shit lol.
@@GamerEternelHaven You might be right about that for most gamers but i literally cant care about the shiniest most realistic games since i dont have the hardware for it so i am putting my money where my mouth is most of the time.
Also idk about everyone else, but I bought GOW2018 and Spiderman PS4 not because they look pretty, but because of brand recognition. I always run them on performance mode which looks shittier lmao. maybe im just an outlier because i also dont give a fuck if a game runs at 30fps as long as its stable lol
@@GamerEternelHaven No one is saying games cant be both fun and realistic. People that say they want "worse games" are just tired of obviously unpolished/unfinished games constantly coming out. If they can't slow their production of games down because of external factors, we'd rather want them to focus on a working product instead of a good-looking buggy mess.
and RE: indie games not selling as much as Sony exclusives: of course it wont. Sony, or any AAA studio honestly, has all the money to advertise their games so casual players who arent super into games would gravitate towards AAA games. During the PS3 era, i was that kind of gamer. Indie games even with the internet wont reach as far and wide without Sony-level advertising. But anyway the good news is they can coexist. Big companies can continue to make these huge ass half-baked games, while the Indie scene will provide for those who arent into that.
@@GamerEternelHaven I'll admit, I do agree the distaste for Sony exclusives are a bit misdirected, some other game companies deserve the hate more than Sony does. I may have bought Spiderman PS4 because of brand recognition, but I will not deny it was one of the more fun AAA games I've played along with both Norse GoW games. I will also admit we're just a vocal minority, and obviously did not put a dent in their sales. At the end of the day, as unfortunate as it is, the gamers that don't care and just want the new shiny thing (which i think is in part fueled by FOMO) just outnumbers those who do. I'll just be here waiting months to buy a AAA game after release and letting those people play-test the game for me lmao.