When I was first saved, The Lord guided me to a Pentecostal church. It was a good Christ Centred, Biblical Christian Church with wonderful godly pastor and a body filled with the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. The pastor retired and a new young man arrived to take over. He led the church down a different path and that church went Seeker Sensitive and Your Best Life Now nonsense. The Holy Spirit then led me and scores of others out of that church as Paul Washer said. Yes, the Lord will guide His people out of danger when things go wrong.
It’s the Pentecostal doctrine or the foundation of Pentecostalism thats the issue. Not necessarily your personal experience at your church. There’s a video by Robert Breaker “Why I’m not a Pentecostal” that you can find in RUclips and i come from a Pentecostal church, even i had to rethink the doctrine thats if its truly biblical.
No what you are saying is absolutely untrue I'm really sorry to correct you but you are 100 % wrong. The wrong heretical elements are also recognised as being unbiblical and false by the vast majority of evangelical and karismatic churches. Brother Paul you need to repent and stop criticising pentecostal, evangelical and karismatic churches and Christians. You have a form of faith but denying the power there of... You have God in a box. Remember Hebrews Jesus the same yesterday, today, forever God's power through his spirit has never stopped working, all through history God healed, performed miracles, people continued to proffet
@@markgalletly3726 Jesus commands us to tear these heretical practices down, sir. YOU need to repent and stop reading the Bible through your glasses of TRADITION (if you guys read your Bibles at all). I went to a Pentecostal charismatic church my whole life and had no idea how lost I was... the babbling shabadabadingdong is NOT what the apostolic church did, every time God heals it’s INSTANT and with the purpose of revealing who God is to unbelievers, not to make your back stop hurting. You guys great God like a vending machine and practice the most irreverent forms of worship. I’m done playing with y’all. I love you or I would ignore you and leave it be. Read Matthew 6 and tell me you guys pray like that. Read the OT and tell me you have faith like they did in the good AND bad times. Read Paul’s letters to the churches and tell me you aren’t guilty of letting some new tradition distort the gospel. Tell me you believe God is sovereign. You can’t. Read. Your. Bible. Without taking verses out of context and jumping around. You guys are Biblically illiterate because you don’t have the Holy Spirit and your idolatrous desires for “more of God” and personal magic powers have invited demonic influence into your congregations and into your hearts. Repent. Repent. Repent. And seek God.
I was saved in a small charismatic youth church back in the 1990s. I thought the way they fell on the floor having seizures was weird, but I was there to pursue a girl I was attracted to and wasn't interested in religion. But I had recently prayed sincerely for God to show me the truth if He existed, which I did not yet believe. I had many times mocked Christians and didn't know why. During the service, the pastor said that God knows me and loves me, and that He is a living God. I somehow knew it was true. I think I forgot about the girl and I became a believer that night. I started to read the Bible frequently and tried to understand it as much as I could. As a studied it, I found that it didn't match with someone of the things the charismatic church was teaching. I attended many churches and found that all of them had some part of scripture they were conveniently ignoring or teaching against. I left the charismatic church but I never lost my faith in God, Christ and the Bible.
I would agree but I was very surprised about the roots of the pentecostal church. Like many of the apostate movements that came along after 1906 like the Mormon church, Jehovah's witnesses, Christians Scientists, etc. many of these were started by women. The Pentecostals and charismatics are swayed by emotionalism and this appeals to women. They exalt the Holy Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit more than exalting Jesus and the Father. The Pentecostal movement is not for Gentiles. It was for the Jews because the Jews required a sign. After Jesus moved on to the Gentiles with the Apostal Paul, tounges were no longer necessary. This is from Robert Breaker and his cloud church here on youtube.
I am not a Baptist biut where I live there are two Baptist churches a couple of hundred yards apart. A member of either would not be seen dead in the other. One is conservative the other liberal. I fear the Baptist Union of Ireland has deep problems.
@@nancypatricia511 Sorry your analysis/answer is wrong. Our God is One. Nothing wrong exalting the Holy Spirit. He is Almighty. It is flesh that must not glory before God. Without the Holy Spirit, man has no communion or fellowship with God and the Lord Jesus.
I appreciate your comment. I was raised Pentecostal and I loved the Lord with all of my heart. Later I became just nondenominational up until about 5 yrs ago when I realized that Christian Reform was really speaking to me. Im glad the Lord gently guidied me to it. I know my family (mother, father, sister, brother and my husband) loved and trusted in the Lord with everything they had. They have all died but I know I will see them in heaven!
I am Pentecostal; however, I have nothing in common with Bethel Church, Hillsong, or Joel Osteen and therefore when I am asked about my denomination, I honesty don't know what to say. I grew up in a different country were the church had the fear of the Lord, went through persecution, and knew that our life is meant to be with trials and suffering. I love my baptist brothers (many of my relatives are Baptists (both of my grandpa's were baptists, one was a preacher and another was a pastor) and the only difference between us is the fact that I believe in prophecies and other gifts and they are very skeptical about it. I myself am skeptical about most of them, but I have seen it work in my life, I see it working in the Bible and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I believe the problem with many Pentecostal churches is the fact that many don't study the Bible and believe almost everyone...it's sad, but many Baptist churches here in US (and worldwide) begin to do the same... Where I come from baptists and penticostals loved each other, went to each others churches, married and most of all had the fear of the Lord. It makes me sad when I look at both of the denominations here in US (at least the ones that I am familiar with) because ppl don't read or know the word and have no idea what the real Christianity is.
Suomalainen helluntailaisuus on onneksi hyvin konservatiivista verrattuna Amerikan helluntailaisuuteen. Itse käyn Turun helluntaiseurakunnassa koska uskon että se on Turun raamatullisin seurakunta(joka ei ole paljon sanottu). Itse olen kalvinisti ja cessationisti joten en tietysti ole seurakunnan pastoreiden kanssa läheskään aina samaa mieltä ja huomaan itse 20 vuotiaana, että seurakuntamme nuoriso on täynnä ei-uskovia. Itseasiassa siellä on vain muutamia kristittyjä. Ketään ei kiinnosta Raamattu eikä teologia ovat jopa vihamielisiä tai vaan väliinpitämättömiä jos puhuu jotain sen suuntaisia asioita. Seurakunta kuitenkin laulaa Betheliä ja Hillsongia yms ja väistämättä näiden harhaopit tulee mukana ja se on äärimmäisen huolestuttavaa enkä oikein tiedä mitä tehdä. Naispuhujat/saarnaajat ovat jo seurakuntaan saapuneet viime vuosina. Sen tiedän että kun saan omia lapsia ja mahdollisuuden parempaan seurakuntaan niin en lapsiani tälle altista.
I was at a pentecostal gathering in Stockholm with people supporting Bethel, with 20 thousand people attending from all over europe. They shouted to God, and many times, it seemed like the service was was about making as much noise as possible. I stood there thinking to myself: "God... you cannot move here, because they are doing church all wrong!". But, you know what!? God didnt listen to me (luckily)! Over 2000 people repented of their sins, gave their lifes to christ, and hundreds of poeple got healed of sicknessees. 5-10 people even said that Jesus took away their visible skin scares from a lifetime of self cutting. I learned that day that God does not care as much as we do on how things are done. He listens to the heart of every hungry human being attending the service, and help the people in need! Some shouting preachers at stage can't stop HIM, because God is love.. neither can Paul Washer with his theology. I do not agree with many of the things Paul Washer preach, still I was actually saved from Paul Washer speach, leaving me crying to God to save me in tears. God did, and gave me the gift of LOVE towards God, and hate towards sin! God can use Paul Washer, God can use Bill Johnson. Lets not judge each other, and start sharing in what we have in common, our Lord Jesus Christ.
MrReierz Not a comment on what you experienced. I just want to say. Good thing God leads us even though we're not perfect. I'm a bit frustrated with the Church these days, but also thankful that the Church belongs to God and he will make it glorious, one day.
"and hundreds of poeple got healed of sicknessees." Do you mean they paid a bunch of little old ladies to pretend like they couldn't walk and wheeled them in the wheel chair and then they were healed and got up and started dancing? Yeah I've seen that before, that is not legit.
@@keepmycommandmentsandlive1607 The sad thing about your comment is that it is very telling of HOW much, rather I should say, how little you value the Holy Spirit. I have been sitting in a Southern Baptist church for the last 8 years, praying for Holy Spirit to show up in power, move the dying congregation into a quickening of understanding of Him and embrace Him for all He is. The pastor there is an awesome man of God and shepherds his flock to the best of HIS ability...residing there for 10 years. As a youth, he was youth pastored by Jack Taylor. If you don't know who that is, look him up. Our pastor is not a total cessationist but has followed the track of a basic Southern Baptist Convention preacher in all other forms. He admits to having asked Holy Spirit to gift him with tongues and to take control of him...years ago in his 20's. But, because it wasn't immediately evident in his perception that he received the gifting, he didn't persevere and he left the thought behind...believing it wasn't for him. Sad, VERY sad. Long story short, he has remained friends with Jack Taylor over the years and has invited Jack and his wife to minister in our church, not once but a few times. When they did minister, there were more than a few healings, including a woman in her mid 70's, being totally healed of scoliosis. Now, you would think the people of the church would want to seek getting to know the Holy Spirit more after that. But sadly, no. He was quickly put back into a box, and left to set somewhere on a indistinct pew, not to be heard from again due to lack of enthusiasm, love, and correct understanding of Him. That church is dying and the gospel message is dying due to the lack of spiritual power being allowed to operate among God's people. WHY is it considered more the work of the enemy than the work of God through the Holy Spirit when His gifts manifest? Have you ASKED yourself THAT question? Could it be that the enemy is doing what he does best? Invoking FEAR into the situation and KILLING, STEALING, and DESTROYING the church by KEEPING it WEAK? Whether you understand it or not, the Holy Spirit is GRIEVED when He is not INVITED into His church, when He is FEARED and His natural displays of GLORY are mocked as being that of the being who is OPPOSITE of Him. Does it make SENSE that when people are drawn more closely TO God through the manifestations of Holy Spirit...that it would instead be a COUNTERFEIT work of the devil? It would be wise to think on these things and seek the Holy Spirit for the answer, before making light of things you choose not to further study and understand. Pax Christi
Well said sir , I have been to Evangelical and now penticostal and have found Good,s love in both. Our penticostal Pastor, teaches the love and grace of Christ , not prosperity gospel or that everyone is saved but we must draw people in to get them to come to Jesus Christ.
@@keepmycommandmentsandlive1607 So you don't believe that God can heal? It's a rethorical question... p.s. I don't like what I see with the charismatic and penticostal movements, but I know that my God is mighty to heal and know ppl who were healed of the diseases; however, I believe that He works with the individuals and not a crowd.
The title says its about Pentacostals and charismatics, but the question was about bethel, hillsong which many charismatics and Pentacostals dont agree with! This is confusing!
Exactly. It's very sad that we're all tarred with the same brush. You'd be put under discipline if you tried bringing the Bethel/Hillsong nonsense into our church.
Pentecostals are guilty of the same stuff. I was a 4th-generation Pentecostal and babbled with the best of em. “‘My spirit knows I’m healed, my body just hasn’t caught up yet” “You just don’t have enough faith” “I’m believing it” ive heard it all. God’s miracles were immediate and with the purpose of pointing to His authority. He does still do miracles, but not in the same way. If the church’s job was to heal everyone they come across not only would they be 100% effective EVERY TIME, Jesus would have spent His time healing EVERYONE. He empowered the apostolic church to heal and perform SIGNS (that point to Christ’s deity) in the first century because there was no Biblical canon! They didn’t have Bibles! Now, the miracle is the ability to share the gospel as believers and let God do His work in peoples’ lives through hearing it through us AND the miraculous change that God does in our lives after being born again! Maybe God does more, He absolutely can, but these practices come from pride and covetousness of the 1st century apostolic church. It isn’t having faith in God’s sovereignty to believe He didn’t ALLOW your back to hurt. Read the book of Job! He will allow you to suffer in this life, but only to shape you and use you for His glory. There’s a reason for everything and God’s in control. Now, He does answer prayers but sometimes He says no. You can’t just get emotional and shabadabalaba magic your back into being healed. That’s a lack of faith. Absolutely unBiblical and heretical and opens you up to demonic influence.
The spirit of antichrist comes as an ANGEL OF LIGHT to decisive and lead us astray! You guys are dealing with the devil and don’t even know it. Repent and seek truth please before it’s too late.
Ive gone to a Pentecostal church many times its all about control , highly emotional, now i ask you how often does our feelings or emotions cause us to sin , there's pride, jealousy , anger, lust , hatred , denial, or just trying to suppress a temtation , behold i bring you glad tidings, whether your in adam or are in christ , accept and believe in the completed work of christ and exchange your life with his , this is a such a miracle and that jesus live his life in you , overcomeing sin , only jesus has done that in all the ages before and after , praise and thank the lord , for victory is a person , we know who that is our lord jesus
I am a Pentecostal and the Church I attend is grounded on this chapter for Salvation which I firmly support, Acts2:38 Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I see that Holy Spirit transform my life and others for the better.
I hope you don't go to that kind of Pentecostal church that says You must be baptized in Jesus name only or you are not saved. If your church teaches that then you are in a legalistic church that you may want to reconsider going to. You can be saved being baptized in the name of the father Son and Holy Spirit. Because it's by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ as to how we are saved not anyting exterior.
@@joshuahuihui5913 the Bible is clear you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ... I know that you are saved by believing, and repenting and baptism either way, but when you go in the name of Jesus, there is something that happens... I believe that even if you are baptized in the name of father, son and the Spirit you will make heaven, because you have already been born of the water
@@joshuahuihui5913 The original early church ONLY baptized in the name of Jesus. Any other form of baptism is heretical. Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:1-5, Col. 3:17. Matthew 28:19 even says to baptize in the name...not titles. If I were to write a check and sign it; husband, son, and friend, you could not cash it. You need the name on the signature line. Too many people are trying to cash in on salvation using titles. It won't work. Iti is not legalistic...it is Biblical. Even the Roman Catholic church admits the original early church ONLY baptized in the name of Jesus. That is found in the Encyclopedia Britannica 11th edition which is written and published by the Catholic church. You will never find anyone after Calvary being baptized any other way in the Bible.
@@josejuan6585 "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" doesn't mean "baptizing them in the name of Jesus and only Jesus."
@@jamersbazuka8055 Baptism for salvation is legalism anyway. There are many people in the Bible who were saved not from Baptism and even some in Acts that were baptised and not saved. You can only be saved by God´s grace through faith in Christ. Baptism is an ordinance, not the reason or means you are saved.
What I have found in these last days before our Lords return is that most Churches will accept Revelation AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT COME FROM REVELATION!!
i love PW... i'm "pentecostal" and my only difference --- in doctrine --- with him(Baptist doctrine) is that im not cessacionist. I think that Bethel isn't pentecostal, to me a pentecostal is people like AW Tozer, Leonard Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, Dereck Prince...
R.T Kendall, Craige Keener, Wayne Grudem, Gordon Fee, Josh McDowell, Jack Deere and many more are there for authenticating Biblical Pentecostal Movement.
There may be a valid point here. What is a Penticostle? Who are the Penticostles? Are there groups adopting or borrowing the label of Penticostle without fitting in with the brand?
I go to a charismatic church in the UK and it's very set on the word. The word is so important to us, we live in it and by it - especially the original teachings. I get though, that some churches arn't like that. However not all churches are like this.
@@zaneallman no where in the bible does it talk about getting re baptized .i had struggled with the same question.i got baptized around 11 or 12 and as i got older i lived in sin and didnt want church but i gave my life to God at home in 2019 at 16 and im 18 now.we need to repent and follow God whole heart.
I am a pentecost and we dont have time to look at other churces flaw or criticize, most of us are busy looking to those who are lost and broken. Say what you want we are free. Freedom is here let Gods name be exalted.
The pentecostals almost cost me my soul when I was young by telling me that I did not receive the Holy Spirit because I did not speak in tongues! I was on fire for God for a few years as a young man, but felt eventually very frustrated and like God rejected me somehow! Thank God for his love that he actualy does have for me, and his patience! After most of my adult life doing it my way, I eventually fell on my face broken and ready to give up on life, when I surrendered and humbled myself and begged Jesus for faith! He immediately oulled me out of the pit, gave me his Spirit, removed my life long death wish, filled my heart with love for Him and my fellow man, gave me true faith , and I did not speak in tongues. I was still wondeing after all those years about the tongues thing, and he gave me an undniable sign that my grandmother saw as well, a miraculous sign that let me know I was in fact re-born of the Holy Spirit! I really still love some of those Pentecostal people I sang and worshiped with years ago, I believe some of them truly loved the Lord! But I think that is a horrible doctrine and i can cause people to turn from the truth! Fortunately, like Paul Washer said, God will show the Truth to those he chooses!
Todd Geffken, I can relate. I was brought up much the same way, and I think of all the youth that I grew up with in the Pentecostal church and not one of them is serving the Lord to this day. I’m forever grateful that God took the scales off my eyes, and that I can now see the truth. Even to this day, my parents look at me blankly when I present the Gospel according to the Bible (that we are wretched sinners in need of a Saviour). I pray for them that they might see.
It is a shame, but not all Pentecostal groups believe that speaking in tongues is some necessity or penultimate sign. You are right though, such doctrines are very destructive.
@@kirabeatz9988 Kira , sorry if I mislead you. But I know it is not true, thus that is why my response to him was to laugh. I am completely secure in my faith in Jesus Christ.
the very fact that people are saying "I am this " and another says that STOP IT we. Who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, are ONE body, One Spirit. Who teaches us all things. the hour is late, you have been bought with a price. it is time to lay aside foolish arguing and seek the Face of Him who redeemed us.
Being careful won't save anyone... so If you know you are a temple of the holy spirit the holy spirit will help you speak Gods wisdom into that person.. A very loved preacher gave a sermon of this and back it up from verses from the bible. God can save anyone he wants so If we are a temple of the holy spirit then why be cautious when you can keep it simple... Being a Christian isn't rocket science its simple, knowing that you have a omnipresent God on your side and that you will be blessed knowing God on earth and we get the greatest gift anyone could ask for... Heaven, If you want to give someone faith, then give them faith you dont need study the bible like you have an exam... keep it simple
Of cause FEDERICK POWELL, I'm very ashamed of this division in christianity because they reject Holly Spirit who he is the one who teaches us all things. The crucial thing is to recieve Holy Spirit thereafter there will be no argument in the body of christ.
So we are one body with the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons who has a twisted view of Jesus? I am afraid I have to disagree with that claim however I do believe in the premise that only Jesus saves, and all those who believe in Christ is ONE in body and spirit. But you must know that believing in an unbiblical Jesus basically implies that you have put your faith in that version of Jesus and the catch here is that only the Biblical Jesus is the TRUE LORD AND SAVIOR. Any deviation from the aforementioned, will not save anyone.
the spirit you get is not holy, or else you would love scripture and sanctification and christ above all things, and all of you clearly dont, you are in the category of "im christian enough" who will hear the depart from me i never knew you, you better repent and take christ sacrifice seriously!
You have a very different picture of Jesus than the apostles, yours is very much less clear...as is mine, relative to theirs. Are you a heretic because of this fact? No. The Corinthian church, in general, had some strange views. Are they less Christian?
We need to follow Paul of the Bible . He was 100% penticostal and maintained spiritual disciplines. Just because few people act funnily, the penticostal truth and the experience should not be ignored.
Pentecost was a Hebrew Israelite feast day and not a religion, so no Paul was not a Pentecostal a religion that did not exist until the early 20th century.
@@thecomingstorm9327 I believe in what happened on the day of Pentecost. I believe the only religion we need is Christ. But as for the Bible signs that people are stating ceased, the Bible has never said that. That’s an ignorant doctrine. As a matter of fact, Jesus said “ these signs “shall” follow them that believe. It’s the unbelievers who won’t have the signs of God following.
This is a GOOD man - not perfect but GOOD! He's right on the nail when he turns the spotlight on the general evangelical ignorance of scripture. I wonder if God will use circumstances to reveal more of his truth to Paul? Jesus said we would be known by the fruit we display. Jesus also said signs and wonders would follow the preaching of those who believe. Much love in Christ and a very speedy recovery, Paul.
I have lived the majority of my life on feelings partly because I have been described as "charismatic," and I will tell you this has hurt me tremendously. I was raised by charismatic parents and we lead a evangelical church and I saw a lot of people come in and out of the community. The truth is feelings come and go, but the Word of God stands as authority. I'm not much of a "worshipper," but even when people claim to know and hear the Spirit I am often times skeptical. I find myself more and more becoming an objectivist in company of Christians.
Worship isn’t based on feelings. I found when I walk in my sonship with Christ my feelings have affirmation of the Spirit, there’s no added side play. Tell me what you think. God bless!
I don’t know what an objectiveist is, because everyone who desires truth wants the objective truth. But have you heard of Mohler? He’s the best the best one teaching the gospel today!
@@dgh5223 Amen. It's good to check ourselves. It's good to know that every heart is deceitful, that every man is a liar, and that all imagination is vain in contrast to the infallible Word of God.
Hey guys! Just wanted to spread a little hope. Ive been to many pentecostal churches that have done away with the hard side of the gospel (hyper grace preaching), but I did eventually find a Pentecostal church that does practice discipline, with discipline being more and more serious depending on someone's role in the church. E.g. a disciple will be taken out of ministry for 3months whereas a Pastor caught in sin is taken out of a Pastoral role completely and not allowed to attempt to get in ministry again for a minimum of 3 years. Homosexuality is not accepted at all, relationships that are outside of marriage are rebuked and lovingly asked to either become a marriage or separate, and an evangelism event in our church will be cancelled completely if the person leading it falls into sin. If someone continuously sins to the point where its causing a spirit of that particular sin to affect other members in the church then that person is put out of the church for 3 months or more. Women are not allowed to be Pastors and submissiom to authority as unto God is taught diligently. So yes, whilst there are many pentecostal churches that have done away with the hard word of the bible, the good thing is there are pentecostal churches that have not.
I love Paul washer. He’s amazing! I love Charles Spurgeon as well. I guess I don’t like the Calvinism. I don’t want to get into it. Pentecostals have great born-again testimonies!!! The thing is, I love their stuff, well probably most of it or some of it. But I also love Baptist stuff and some of the reformed stuff too. Paul Washer preaches the true gospel and he’s really strong! Pentecostal people are alive and their music is great and they have great testimonies. Are there any churches in the middle of all that? Like, are there any churches in the middle, like reformed Pentecostals or Pentecostals that preach the true gospel like Paul washer does? Thank you so much! I believe in the spiritual gifts. They are still active today. But I love Paul washer and Charles Spurgeon.
@@Jesusbride515 im not a pentecostal, but i do believe the gifts are active today, i personally dont speak tounges but speaking in tounges is not the only gift, there is prophesy, there is wisdom, there is faith, there is hope, there is love, there is discernment. Also no there is no denomination between everything you mentioned, you will always find a conflict between them. I also would have loved to find a church like that but i havent yet, pentecostals are great because they believe in the gift of tounges and prophecys but there are more the ones that fake it then who really have it, also they will always focus in tounges because that is the only gift that is visible, now the reformed ones like paul washer i like them because they have pure doctrine, their teachings are straight forward, they dont use music to alter your emotions, they let the word of God do its work. All i have to say my friend, that for us christians to be so divided is clearly a sign of end of times, read your bible and always ask guidenes of the Holy Spirit, without Him you wont truly understand the messege and msiterys in Gods word.
I have never been to other Pentecostal churches but all I'm going to say is we have healing in our church, prophecy's and much more. I do not see these gifts in Baptist church's nor have i ever heard a prophecy their or people speak in tongues. We have had many miracles in are church and it feels alive and like a fire where i cannot say the same for other churches.
The question really is: Is there any use/need to speak in tongues today, in the age where the majority of the world speaks 5 languages in total and you can literally get an app that translates into/from any language? And by languages I don't mean gibberish like "shallamalla-shallamalla" but actual, spoken tongue. The same goes for healing.
@@lexethonor294, truly, you avoid responding to the question. The Word of God says many things but it does not say that we should speak tongues. It was something that the disciples did in the 1st century because they had no other way to share the Gospel.
Elizabeth Bloedow Well, if he were to use scripture, he'd prove himself wrong. These guys are being arrogant and can't see where they're lead astray. Sad.
@The Opposite of a Machine AMEN! I studied to be a pastor at a pentecostal church. I couldnt reconcile their teaching with the bible. This man is one of the boldest preachers around
I've gone to Assemblies of God churches for years, as well as other denominations. None of them practice church discipline, they are afraid to lose tithes and members. I've given up trying to find a Biblical church in this apostate age.
I hope you don't mean the Potter's House where T.D. Jakes is head pastor. I know way too much dirt on that whole scene, wouldn't go there if my life depended on it. The other one I will look into.
@@adamgoodword7888 ELEVATION isn't even charismatic. Secondly that's most of Christian worship music. Just about all of its gone that way and there isn't much biblical worship music left. Just because the majority goes crazy on doctrine (which is on both sides) you can't say they simply aren't Brothers. And as for the cessation view how can we say the gifts have ceased when they had them in the old testament. That's the same as saying God changes which isn't possible.
The only thing that makes me Pentecostal is that I pray in tongues, the Spirit helps me to pray for my non Christian loved ones and the Lord sometimes shows me Bible passages or words of encouragement to give to people to help them. I am happy to attend any church which preaches according to biblical truth and the Apostles' Creed. I haven't had many problems with Pentecostal churches as they tend to be conservative and Bible based where I've lived in the UK and Australia. Where some people tend to err is in being too casual toward God but I believe that is a modern problem and I haven't seen it in leadership where I've lived.
Charismatic itself comes from the Greek- χάρισμα. That means any good gift that flows from God's love. That being said, in reference to the Gifts of the Spirit, continuationism isn't unbiblical and neither is cessationism. I don't think Paul Washer's discernment of this issue in particular was very on par considering he addresses unitarianism/universalism. While it wouldn't surprise me that there are some whom maybe affiliated with Unitarianism and be continuationists, assuming those two to be equivalents is not a good discernment. My prayer for him is that he gets out and about and encounters and engages with people more and seeks to understand his audience more.
Max Marshall Who Washer? Yes I would expect him and others who are the lead pastors/speakers of the church to. I've not been around many Pentecostals or charismatics to comment on that, though from what I do know, there are those that do which are out there.
richardmaggio1979 the Holy Spirit is given unto us to judge that which is evil from that which is good hence a born again Christian is not able to be deceived.
I would describe myself as a charismatic. I have Pentecostal roots as well. While I disagree with Paul Washer and John Mccarthur on cessationism, I find their teachings really good. God has blessed me through preachers like them in so many ways.
Same. Very strong men of God who love Jesus, yet are throwing the baby out with the bath water when they lump genuine gifts of the Spirit in with heresy like prosperity/word of faith theology. Their lack of nuance causes them to impose limitations on how God operates today.
I also find their teachings good and solid except when it comes to cessationism. They limit God and put God in a box when they think God cannot bestow gifts of the Holy Spirit. Having said that I don't believe that a genuine outpouring of spiritual gifts looks anything like the circus show that goes on at churches like Bethel. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see these days is not genuine but rather carefully orchestrated emotional hype.
@@j.c.5999 Chuck Smith called it 'Charismania', he was right. However, I refuse to apologise for the snake oil salesmen who have dogged the true church since the day of Pentecost itself. I have no truck with them and will have none and resent bitterly being placed by others alongside them.
Exactly! They are anointed men of God. It is obvious. So, why? Why do they insist on pulling tares? You cannot listen to these rants and rationalize they speak in love. And, any man who says he loves God yet hates his brother is a liar.
@@Zionist_Eternal The Bible teaches, through the apostle Paul, that Christians are called to point out false teachers. Paul did this himself. I have a hard time understanding how a believer can have a problem with someone who exposes false teachings/teachers -- particularly when God says we are to do this.
It’s hard when it comes to different denominations like the charismatic group, where they’re actually leading people away from Christ and possibly to hell. It’s hard not to step in and let everyone know about it, but I know what you mean
Nick Hybner Jesus’s Church doesn’t have a denomination. The true Bible, the written Word of God, is what should always be the common denominator of Believers and Followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s not a Christian thing; it’s a human thing. Anywhere you have people, you will have division on ideas, beliefs, topics. Whether an atheist, democrat, republican, a vegan, or football fan.
You need to get it together and deal with it. Human history is rife with disagreements on theology. And it always will be until Christ returns and obliterates it all.
jacob maier Me too. I love John Piper, RC SPROUL and Alaister Begg, but they're missing out on some powerful stuff that the Holy Spirit is doing. I want the *whole* gospel. That's why I don't align myself with any denomination.
It's a shame that there is horrible demonic doctrine. I agree with that. But assuming that every person who believes in the gifts of the Spirit moving today is wonky is absurd. That's like saying every Reformed believer is a hypercalvinist. We need to properly discern because we know in ALL sections of the church there are people who are teaching false doctrine and are deceived. That's why Scripture teaches not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom
Dominic Polverino My experience comes fro. sitting in a Reformed church for 10 years back in the 90's. I was the only one in the church who delivered people because the Presbyterian Church I attended didn't BELIEVE IN DELIVERANCE! They are missing out on a lot of things by restricting the Holy Spirit.
This hasn't to do with cessation ism though? Grudem and Piper and MLJ and Wilkerson etc. aren't cessationist and they would agree totally woth PW about the prosperity preachers/WOF preachers. They are separate issues.
Paul Washer is a Calvinist through and through, of course he's gonna be biased against Pentecostals or any other denomination for that matter, this is what they do.
Hey Jesse. Did u know Paul Washer has a high respect for Leonard Ravenhill? Reformed folks have a respect for those who believe differently than us. However, Paul is clearly calling out the hard-core heretical stuff. Idk why that is a problem to u?
I was one of these 'confused' Christians and have been hurt by the misplaced super spiritual emphasis of many of these kinds of churches growing up. I thank the The Lord my God He has brought me out of that movement and into a genuine fellowship with Himself. I just pray that He would have mercy on people in this movement who are trying to be genuine, and lead them out like He did with me.
Amen on everything this man stated in this video, I agree 100%, PRAISE GOD!!! The LORD is cleaning HIS churches, rooting out all "heretics" posing as HIS people as stated in 1Peter 4:17.....
1 Samuel 19:23-14 So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even on him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth. He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel’s presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”
All you have to hear is John Mac Author . The day of Pentecost was real and the Holy Spirit still fills people with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I speak in tongues and I am not some weirdo . I have been for 20 plus years , and I teach it because the power of Gods Spirit gives you the ability to preach with the anointing ! Also to resist temptation and communicate with God on a another level. I understand that there are crazy dog barking Charismatics and "Pentecostals " but be careful Paul and John when you start generalizing . Take heed to yourself
Jesus had the full filling of the Holy Spirit yet he did not pray with "tongues", he did not teach us to pray in "tongues", why are you praying in "tongues"? You said, "communicate with God on a another level" Jesus used words to pray to God, He told us to use words to pray to God (Lord's Prayer), never once did He tell His disciples that when the Spirit comes they should pray in the "tongues" you are speaking about. If you define the word tongues as it is in the Bible as earthly languages, you'll find that you've been speaking gibberish all along, blaspheming those acts to the Holy Spirit.
be carful my friend when it comes to the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact do some more research on Paul Washer and look up his experience with speaking in tongues. The apostle Paul said I speak in tongues more than all of you. Be carful my friend when you call gifts from God gibberish . Remember the Jews said Jesus had a 😈. Just be careful not to speak on things your not familiar with. Hope that helps .
Justin, Jesus said as recorded in Mark 16 that one of the signs of a true believer is that they will speak with "other tongues". The Bible also says that most of Jesus's ministry went untold, because He did so much. And we're not supposed to pray our public prayers publicly. Who knows how He was praying in private but the Father and the Holy Spirit?
I would like a direct answer for a direct question. When did the gifts of the Spirit stop according to scripture? Who were the gifts for according to scripture?
Whenever I listen to Paul Washer .He always judge other Men of God who preach the gospel .only God has the right to judge .whether they are right or wrong they have to give an account to God one day .but you should not take the place of God to judge others .you do your own job . Preach the word as God called you to do .
"The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8). Here are six proofs that it has already ceased: 1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist. 2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned, although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy. The Greek word translated “prophecy” means “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future. 3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12. 4) Tongues was an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues does not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3). 5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church. 6) There are indications that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2. As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary. The reasons stated above are evidence for cessationism. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified." (Source: GotQuestions 'dot' org /cessationism)
My friend as long as they are sick people and the devil is at work none of it has ceased. The Apostle Paul did not predict it. It said it will cease. But God has the final word. I belief it will cease when Jesus return. You all have to stop putting a full stop where God has not put a full stop. If you don't understand it Ask the Holy Spirit to explain.After All He is the one who inspired the writing of the Bible and he is a living Author.
The title throws me off a little bit and after having read some of the comments, I thought of sharing this. Please read below. Firstly, a lot of people don’t understand the difference between the modern charismatics and the traditional Pentecostals. The traditional Pentecostal movement began in 1900 and accelerated through the Azusa street revival in 1906. The charismatic movement was a separate movement that began in the 1960s and was independent of the Pentecostal movement. Secondly, word of faith and prosperity gospel came into the church through individuals such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland and others as well as faith healers such as Benny Hinn etc. Word of faith and prosperity gospel are not part of the traditional Pentecostal movement. I grew up a Pentecostal and have utmost respect for the early Pentecostals and people such as David Pawson and David Wilkerson. These were men of sound theology and men who believed in the power of the Holy Spirit. I’m sure that brother Paul Washer here is not talking about the Pentecostal movement as I have heard him speak well of David Wilkerson elsewhere as well as Leonard Ravenhill who was very closely associated with the Pentecostal movement Also, I would request the reader to please listen to the sermon series on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by Martyn Lloyd Jones. Listening to him preach on that subject is as though one was listening to a Pentecostal. Having said that, I don’t agree with individuals such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, etc. They are very different from the early Pentecostals who were people of humble beginnings, sound theology, people who preached and lived holy lives and believed in the power of the Holy Spirit. So, I would urge my dear brethren, whom I love very deeply in the Lord, to please make that distinction and not label the entire Pentecostal movement the same as the modern charismatic movement or the word of faith/prosperity gospel.
Paul Washer answers a clear question , and the question is so different from the headlines of this video . In America maybe Charismatic and Pentecostal are mixed , but in other parts of this world, Pentecostals are very decent looking ( all women wear long dresses or skirts and heads are covered) and decent acting believers, (no jumping , no dancing, no falling on the ground and you name it) contrary to Charismatic churches. I suggest you change the headlines .
The idea that mystacism is somehow related to a relationship with God is blasphemy in itself. What do I mean by that. The same people that claim the Holy Spirit lead them to a pentacostal church, will have fellow church members that are living in carnal sin with unrepentant hearts. You see it's possible to be saved and be in a pentacostal church as God saves whomever He wants but it's not possible to be under their doctrine of The gifts, church dissipline and count yourself as being in the narrow road that leads to life and sometimes even their Christology and escatology are wrong. You need not be in a charismatic church, neo-pentacostal or tradisional pentacostal church, they seek signs and wonders to validate their belief in God and actually ignore and invalidate the work of the Holy Spirit within a believer's heart and spirit. Jesus never commended those who saught signs, in fact He condemned them because they would not believe even when He performed many miracles. Blessed are those believe yet they do not see.
I have not seen this inclusive-ism and pro homosexual acceptance in ANY charismatic or Pentecostal churches. I have heard of a couple individuals quit a charismatic church because their charismatic church stuck with the Bible. In the evangelical world I have only seen cessationist churches accept the gay lifestyle - not the charismatics. For every charismatic I have seen "deconstruct" (or quit the faith) I have seen at least 20 cessationists deconstruct. That is MY personal experience - just what I have personally seen in over 50 years as a Christian.
Why would Christ stop sending the Holy Spirit? Why would he stop giving us power and remove from us the intimacy that comes with speaking in tongues. Because we now have the KJV of the Bible? Cessationism is Ridiculous. We love God’s Word. We honor it. We consider it the infallible Word of God. It is not to be trifled with...but the Bible does not supersede the supremacy of the Holy Spirit or His sending onto the believer by the Son of God. I am a Pentecostal. I love the church. I have been ministered to by Paul Washer and his anointed teachings on holiness. He is a treasure to the body of Christ. Yet, this divisiveness and spiritual elitism is ridiculous. Pentecostal/Charismatics are no longer the theological impotent church people of prior generations; we have grown. He have studied to show ourselves approved. And we are co-labors in this Kingdom of God. Let us stop bickering and start putting our hands on the plow and keeping our eyes on the harvest. We have too much beautiful work to do in these last days. And we NEED the Holy Spirit’s leadership and power. Before he ascended into heaven, Jesus told the disciples, who walked with Him 3 years, witnessed His miracles, and learned from His example, to NOT leave Jerusalem, but stay and wait until they receive power from on high. Friend, you and I need that power. It’s a power that comes after salvation. Quit focusing on what physical signs should follow that blessing (Ie tongues) and start contending for the blessing. He is real. He loves you. He desires to use you in the greatest mission humanity has ever seen. The redemption of all creation! HE PROMISES TO EMPOWER US. All we need to do is ask. Luke 3:16 John [the Baptizer] answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" Acts 1:8 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
"God is love," yes, but it was mentioned very little in the Bible. "Fear God," now this, this is the phrase mentioned A LOT in the Bible. "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ..." "A god fearing woman is far more precious than ruby .." "Fear me, I am the Lord, ..." Don't just focus on love, fear Him. Respect Him. This is the same God who get angry, get jealous, even tho He is patience, and when He decided to act, it is scary. Really scary. He could even banished death, so that you can suffer, but not die. Respect him. Please don't forget it.
No explanation of doctrines that are bad. Just them vs us. And instead of discussing the actual word itself. We lend our opinions and rebuke each other. Christ of joy or of contention. Either way we rejoice.
Honestly, we have to listen to the same elitist baptist bull dust regurgitated by the same village idiots (John MacArthur included) where the charismatic move is knocked by baptist intellectuals - Masher included. Let me ask this question if the baptist movement was "the be all and end all" that Jesus intended, why do so many baptists live defeated and powerless lives - and end up either leaving the ministry and the faith or resigning themselves to a life of frustrated disappointment. In contrast (and despite their excesses), charismatics live comparatively fulfilled lives, where the reality of Jesus is visible, in virtually every aspect of their lives. My sister and brother in law used to be baptists and now want absolutely nothing to do with the church which unfortunately typifies what I have just said. Dispite the continual "prophecy" by these so-called intellectual paragons of Christianity, that the charismatic move is doomed to implosion - Charismatic Christianity is growing in leaps and bounds at the expense (I might add) of the baptist and denominational churches ( a fact that baptists really hate hearing). SO why is this happening??? Does the answer lie in the fact that your average charismatic takes Gods word for what it is - the unadulterated Word of life and power and doesn't try to intellectualise it - because they realise that simple faith pleases God (Heb 11:6). Is it because the average charismatic does his/her best to develop their relationship with the Holy Spirit - while the average baptists strut around like intellectual peacocks, showing everyone how little they know and believe - while their lives eptomise defeated and ineffectual Christianity, that no one wants anything to do with. The baptists have forgotten one simple truth - Jesus saves - absolutely and praise God for that. BUT JESUS ALSO EMPOWERS - and for that you need the Holy Spirit, the Gifts and the continual baptism of the Spirit evidenced by the speaking in other tongues. So come one with your criticism - come on with your superior attitudes - remember this truth "pride cometh before a fall".
Not all Pentecost and charismatics are the same. Not sure if I’m one of them, but I know for a fact they’re not all the same. One of the biggest influential sound doctrine pastors in Mexico is a charismatic. His name is Chuy Olivares. He has really good preaching and has gone against a lot of the false teachings movements like these spread. In other words you can say he goes based on the biblical parameters. So yeah I don’t think all of them are the same.
I have a great Love for Paul Washer and Bill Johnson (Bethel) The problem with this type of dialogue is that washer is stating "I watched a video and the man showed me" when in all reality there are tons of videos, clips, and audio recordings taken out of context, modified, and manipulated daily in order to 'attempt' to make a point. The fact of the matter is this, if we are going to be BIBLICAL as Washer and MacAuther are rightfully concerned about, then why will they not sit down with any of the people they are criticizing according to the Biblical mandate of Matthew 18:21-35? Why does MacAuthor refuse to sit down with Dr. Michael Brown who wrote an entire book in response to MacAuthor' strange fire conferences and literature? Why do the cessationists run from brotherly Love and humbling themselves enough to sit down with the prominent leaders of the Charismatic movement whom they disagree with based on 'Videos" and "Clips"? Is this biblical Love? Is the the Body of Christ handling one another in the fruit and unity of the Spirit? No, unfortunately, it's a slanderous witch hunt which is spiraling out of control. So much so that they are now calling people names, laughing at genuine followers of Christ, and ignoring the fact that cessationist beliefs are fading fast all across the world. Most who are coming to Christ today in foreign countries including millions of muslims in Africa and the middle east are having supernatural encounters with Jesus and then turning around and evangelizing their communities. But you wont hear that at the strange fire conference, because it's an inconvenient truth that cripples their position.
It's not about religion it's not about Charasmatics Pentecostals or Baptists , it is about Jesus Christ and genuine love for God an His Christ. For when we see the sacrifice of Jesus we see our brothers in the light of who God truly made us to be. The enemy has tried to divide the body of Christ. But the Holy Spirit will draw true believers together not those seeking their own righteousness but those seeking after a true encounter with Jesus. The most important thing is the relationship we have with Jesus, we are to walk by the Spirit, so that we abide and continue to glorify God through the fruit we manifest through Jesus Christ our Lord and savior. For these pastors to marginalize Charasmatics and true born again believers as being in Jesus Culture and other mega churches is a terrible misunderstanding. God has a remnant and he or she is hidden, although they work and glorify Jesus. Many pastors who are in churches and pulpits have made mistakes but to say they are a flat out lie is wrong.
I, as a Charismatic (and WoF at that) and can disagree with my reformed, cessationist brothers without demonizing them. It's too bad they can't reciprocate.
The issue I see is that a lot of these charismatic churches is that drives so many people away from Christ. They see the writhing on the floor, the speaking gibberish, etc, they want nothing to do with it. A few may be saved yet many more driven away.
At the end of 1 Corinthians 14, which was intended to be a fairly thorough guideline on how to conduct general "meetings" among the Body of Christ, Paul says bluntly; "if any man would be ignorant, then let him be ignorant." Then, he summarizes his brief teaching, and moves on to talk to them about the resurrection.
Its so sad that he sees things this way because he is so wrong. I know people from Bethel and that is a wonderful group of people who are very passionate about God, Paul just wants conservatism at all costs, his picture of God id very narrow and sad
What I find very disturbing is that there are sooooo many different kinds of religions...JESUS PREACHED,BE HOLY FOR I AM HOLY and not other religious garbage
i always thought the fruits of our labors is proof of the holy spirit and everyone receive the holy spirit threw believing the gospel ephesians 1:13 and paul say that there are different gifts not just speaking in tongue and that the least gift we would want
The test of a pastor: does he lead people to more living actions? More judgmental actions? More hateful actions towards others? That is how you know if a pastor is from God, or not because the Bible is very clear on what a pastor is, and a pastor should literally have a spotless reputation above criticism.
I attend a Bethel church that is a subsidiary church of Bethel Redding. I play bass on the worship team whose material largely consists of Jesus Culture songs. The church is biblically sound and is not inclusionistic or universal in it's view of salvation. Paul, can you tell me why you want to attack your brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ over the minutia of preferences. I love you in Jesus Christ and hope you can love me for my church affliation.
Calvinist or not he is a man of God, but I think we can all lean one way hard. I think the penacostal church gets a lot of flack because of the Benny hins and Joyce Myers and Kenneth copelands. If your church is biblical and preaches Jesus and you guys don’t just run around crazy, and fall over, and people speaking in tongues without interpreters. Because that’s why most Pentecostals get flack. Paul teaches us that we should have order in the body of Christ. He says when it comes to speaking in the church 1 Corinthians 14: 27-28,33 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints “as in all the churches of the saints” very clear all the church’s.
@@saved6655 Wow! Very cool. I posted this over four years ago. I agree with you 100%. A little honesty. I have since left that Bethel church. The last year we were at that church, the Passion translation was being taught as preference from the pulpit. The holiness of God was being diminished for more PC rhetoric. A loving God was prioritized over the Holy and Sovereign God. Some new age like practices were being introduced. That was our last Sunday. Paul Washer was right on this one instance. I thank God for keeping my family safe from false doctrine.
@@jerry7663 man very cool, that is amazing how the Holy Spirit works. I pray for those that are saved that are in these circles and I pray that God will shed a light on those teaching these things. But I’m glad things are going good for you my brother. Let’s keep in our word and praising our sovereign Lord and Jesus Christ. Thanks for the dialog my brother. Contact me if need be I love the conversations with brothers in Christ.
i dont come from a christian family. grew up a non practicing catholic. i went to church and thought it was weird. i read the bible and enjoyed doing the things Jesus taught. God saved me in filling my body and giving me a vision. i had no prior knowledge of the things of church. nobody told me this was possible but God. i am a pentacostal. i cant deny what happened was supernatural and to leave it would be foolish and turning my back on the holy ghost
Just like we overlook Washer's Cessationist beliefs, and is still considered a Christian, he should do the same with those who believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You cannot group churches that believe in spiritual gifts with the coming "apostasy" and the gay/lesbian agenda. He mentions John MacArthur who promotes that the "mark of the beast" is harmless to those in his church. Watch out who you are listening to.
What most of these fundamentalists fail to mention is that Leonard ravenhill was a Pentecostal. Yes, he was, but didn't make it a major label and didn't join any of their denominations in the USA. Yet so many evangelicals claim him as an influence- how ironic!
The video title is not correct. Its about two "ministries" tied to the Charismatic movement and the Charismatic Movement. There are many Godly men and women within the Pentecostal movement. He two terms Charismatic and Pentecostal are not synonymous. The title is a bit misleading. Not saying the author intended to mislead.
Addressing the false teachings on one side is good. However, throwing in John MacArthur without confronting his false teachings confuses the whole thing. It is possible to reject false teachings on both extremes and seek with all our hearts to walk in the whole truth of the whole counsel of God. I just believe that the excesses and false teachings on John MacArthur's side should be addressed at the same time as the other side, otherwise everyone picks sides as if they are the only options and accepts the false teachings of their own group as if there is nothing they can do about it.
@@IvanLendl87 For background, I believe there is a plumbline of Scriptural truth that is often missed between the pendulum extremes that fight for supremacy, so I’m evaluating everything I hear with those three basic options in mind (the plumbline and the two opposing pendulum extremes). Second, John MacArthur is held up as the flagship of exegetical preaching and teaching (reading “out” of Scripture what God has spoken), with the corresponding torpedo attacks on eisegetical preaching and teaching (reading “into” Scripture things God didn’t say). His reputation makes it easy for people to miss the eisegesis he slips in. Because of this constant declaration that John MacArthur is exegetical instead of eisegetical, his disciples do not seem to notice when he does a bait-and-switch routine by talking about exegesis and then throwing in an eisegetical interpretation. He then gets away with doing the very thing his disciples attack others for doing while no one addresses him when he does the same things. I hope there is agreement that if someone teaches something the Bible does not say, especially in a way that requires disobeying something it does say, that we would call that false teaching without favoritism or partiality. Some of MacArthur’s Eisegetical teachings I have heard include: ~ saying that some of the spiritual gifts Paul taught the church to use have ceased when there isn’t one place in the Bible that says that (whatever he claims about it, he is reading in an eisegetical opinion to the texts he uses because none of them explicitly/exegetically say what he claims) ~ leading people to disobey what the apostle instructs churches to do with those spiritual gifts MacArthur says are no longer in use (when Paul taught them as if the churches would use them) ~ presenting his eisegesis on these matters as exegesis so that those who are holding to the apostle’s teaching about spiritual gifts within the whole counsel of God are treated as if they are the ones who are false (however, the discrepancy between MacArthur’s disciples and those who follow Paul’s teachings on the matter is because John MacArthur is off on a pendulum extreme that his disciples think is the plumbline so that when they look at people at the plumbline they imagine them at the opposite pendulum extreme) ~ claiming that Christians cannot be demonized when the Bible never once says that, and while many ministries and missions groups can attest to people receiving Christ as Lord and Savior and still having demonic issues to clear up as they begin growing in Christ (again, because MacArthur’s disciples think his teaching is plumbline instead of the eisegetical pendulum extreme it is, they send out their Discernment Snipers to take down ministries that are helping Christians with demonic issues because those people can’t get help in John MacArthur kind of churches. These attacks are an attempt to deny their traumatized brothers and sisters in Christ the help that Christ would give them if the body of Christ was willing to join his work) ~ using the word “implicit” (a synonym for eisegesis) to claim that when the church is not mentioned in a reference in Revelation it must mean that they were already raptured, something that is not stated by God’s revelation, and contradicts Jesus own words that the church will be gathered (taken up, raptured) at the same time as Jesus comes to judge the world And, finally, this is so serious to me because MacArthur’s Strange Fire conference has done so much damage by forcing people to choose (and fight) between the Charismaniac extreme and his Cessationist extreme instead of calling people to the plumbline of God’s word where everything the apostles taught about the Spirit and spiritual gifts would be honored and all the warnings and restrictions would be obeyed. The Charismaniacs know he is unscriptural in his eisegetical extreme so they won’t listen to him, and MacArthur’s disciples know the Charismaniacs are unscriptural in their eisegetical extreme, so both sides are missing the truth the other side accepts while demanding allegiance to things the Bible doesn’t even say. And, since I have lost opportunities for fellowship with brothers because of this, it is both serious and personal and worth mentioning in the hopes that someone will see that they don’t have to choose between the two pendulum extremes (Cessationism & the Charismaniacs) when we can hold to the whole counsel of God and put it into practice just as the apostles taught. Thanks for asking, by the way!
@@LtdMusic I'm simply saying that we are usually taught that we must choose between the extreme and unbiblical expressions of the Charismaniacs or the equally unbiblical cessationist limitations of John MacArthur and his disciples. The plumbline would be those who acknowlede that God still uses all the spiritual gifts to his glory as described in his word, but with all the limitations the Scriptures themselves put on the gifts. When people think they need to choose between Johnny Mac and the Charismaniacs, they are choosing which Scriptures they will accept and which they will ignore. The plumbline shows that we can reject both pendulum extremes and just live by the whole counsel of God on the matter of spiritual gifts.
Wait, so he guarantees that God will bring "genuine Christians" out of Bethel or Jesus Culture? Does that mean all "genuine Christians" are predestined to become good Presbyterians or Reformed Baptists? What hubris, and theological nonsense. I'd love to see his exegetical support for such a position.
My sense from watching a range of these clips is that personal conduct,. proper and civilised middle class white man behaviour is often the real issue. I'm fascinated as a social scientist as as to how many of you own 'truth'. There is a very wide range of owned 'truth' and claims to 'truth' among you. You look to me more like s bunch of children squobling in the school playground.
I found with the Pentecostal church the love thy Neighbour rule goes out the door and when that goes out the door so dose the love the Lord you God goes with it
I am a Pentecost. So you guys believe in surplus grace and don’t believe in prosperity? Rich is not a bad word! God takes pleasure in blessing me. Have you heard of a sentence “God is good”? Preachers like him will scare away people from church. Never go to a church that scares you. God loves us. And yes I believe in prosperity gospel and I don’t understand why you don’t agree to God blessings. Also we don’t judge anyone who don’t speak in tongues but you guys are ! We have been loving everyone that’s the reason Pentecostal movement is growing. Not because we say nice things, we do nice things as well. We don’t condemn a homosexual coming to church. Church is for sinners and not for bunch of Pharisees. I don’t theology but I understand that being judgmental will get you stuck in life. Love you all!!
Religious spirits will never let you know the truth and the secrets of God ministering with the Holy Spirit. I am sadden that Paul judged and discredited a movement in its whole Jesus Culture, Bethel, etc..... Being spirit filled and abiding in God's presence will keep us from religious and pharisaic deception...Paul seems to be very bound, dried up, joyless, too serious...but God is exuberant, generous and deep in his way to express his character: more abundant joy, a jealous love and passion and suffering that can still bring you a joy...this man is dried up from the inside out.
This title doesn't reflects what is being asked and said. Paul Washer was asked about charismatic churches like Bethel, Jesus Culture and other mega-churches. Which really are using New Age doctrines but in the name of Jesus.
How about we all just work out OUR OWN SALVATION with trembling and fear! If your truly born again and filled with the spirit you won’t find this difficult! 🙄🙏🏽
Hazel Scarlett sounds very self-centered. Did Paul give this kind of an example? Quite the opposite actually. We are supposed to care about the spiritual condition of God’s people and Christ’s church and not just let everything slide.
I never learned true grace Or forgiveness in Pentecostal churches I spent the first 34 years of my life in them Took me many years to find what grace was
Paul Washer speaks from his flesh. He says "God moves in Christianity not from big movements but from small, Biblical churches." There is nothing in the NT that says that, he made a claim from his flesh, and he does this a lot. Christians beware of the things that come from this man's mouth. I still consider him a brother, he just does not know the HOly Spirit personally, only Him on paper, as do most Americanized Christians today. The Holy Spirit can do whatever He wants. If He wants to move in a big movement like He did with the Apostles on Day of Pentecost, He can do it. It is foolishness for "teachers" like Paul Washer to say otherwise. He is basically telling the HOly Spirit what He can and cannot do and how He can and cannot operate based off his understanding from his fleshly brain, rather than a mind born in the Spirit's FULL wisdom. Repent, Paul Washer.
Cleveland Street Preachers agree with you, especially when we see the ministry of Jesus himself. Thousands of people followed him. Some for food, others for miracles but I convinced I lot of them really love him. I'm Pentecostal and for me it is impossible not be exalt the name of Jesus when I'm in church. It is something that come from my spirit. Love to worship God at any time
Hes talking about these big mega churches and these big movements that accept all religions and all denominations, you're the one whos wrong not him, everything he said was biblical
I'm pentecostal and tend to agree with what he said. Some of the stuff coming out of places like Bethel is just insane. But on the other end of the spectrum, many teachers are dismissing the gifts on the basis of their abuse. Paul didn't come and say "no gifts for you" to the Corinthian church. He corrected their bad theology and then said things like "forbid not to speak with tongues".
Pentecostals and Charismatics are following a false gospel and a false spirit. There is no such things as gifts. If the Lord needs someone to speak in tongues to bring Him glory then the Holy Spirit will move upon them. It's God's will not man's will to speak in tongues.
I agree the Pentecostal movement has been led astray. That being said do not dismiss speaking in tongues or other spiritual gifts just because the current Pentecostal movement is a heresy.
As a pentecostal minister i must say that 1. You're right the pentecostal church in general has been led astray. 2. It's been led astraty by calvinists and specifically the southern baptist convention with it's seeker sensitive and church growth movements. 3. You're confused about the oentecostal mkvement and the charismatic movement. There's a biiiiig difference between the 2 and lumping them together is the same as saying reformed churches are just disgruntled roman catholic churches, and today's baptist churches are just disgruntled reformed churched churches. There are sharp differences between traditional reformed churches like the presbyterian church and the roman catholic church just as there are sharp differences between traditional reformed churches and baptist churches.
The movement was led astray???? The Pentecostal Movement from its inception was to lead people astray, away from the truth, away from Jesus. Nobody speaks in tongues today. It is no longer needed. We have translators and the gospel is printed in many different languages. In this day and age people do not need to speak in tongues.
@@adamgoodword7888 that's not true at all. Mere opinion. The cessationist movement was a creation of the 19th centurty theologian b.b. warfield. He and other hyper calvinists created the cessationist movement because of 2 main things. 1. There was a movement falsely representing the grace gifts of the Holy Ghost. And 2ndly, they were scared they would lose control over people because the bible disagrees with calvinism. What you're omitting is the fact that it took the pcog 50 years to accomplish everything the southern baptist convention has from it's inception till today. That pentecostalism strives for evangelism and reaching the lost 5 times more than any baptist or calvinist denomination. And that it was southern baptists like rick warren, and calvinists like robert schuler which helped create the heresies found infecting pentecostalism. Back before we were infected by the baptist seeker sensitive movement when we had a heresy we faced it down and overcame it with scripture and the power of the Holy Spirit. When the antitrinitarian theology of sabellianism, and noetism, and the church of christ heretical teaching of baptismal regeneration it was kicked out in about a year and was condemned as heretical with the general council of the assemblies of God addressing the heresy at a general council meeting when theologians and scholars were called upon from within our ranks to exegete all pertinent key passages of scripture. Those who would not repent were given the left foot of fellowship. When the original new apostolic reformation was starting under the name "new order of the latter rain" the assemblues of God not only condemned such heresy but wrote a position paper against it which it stood by up until the baptist and calvinist seeker sensitive movements started infecting pentecost. You don't know anything about Pentecost, or about pentecostalism, or the power of the Holy Ghost. You should type in your search bar "B.H. Clendennen a trojan horse". You'll get an idea of what kind of stock pentecostals come from.
Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years? The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist. Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
Can the man answer the question? The question was about Pentecostals and Charismatics. He turned it into Evangelicals. He twisted it, it's called wicken or twisted. He did not answer the question about Pentecostals and Charismatics but twisted it to attack Evangelicals. Can anyone see this ?
Are you deaf? He said he can’t say they are not saved, that was the whole point of his answer. In other words, and I’m ashamed to have to explain this, he says there may well be people in those churches that really believe the gospel. It’s not up to him to answer that question with a yes or no. God knows current state with Him.
We love to judge & cast stones. When we ask a preacher to affirm another's calling when they serve Christ as well we do the work of another who hasn't sent us but lives to feed our flesh feelings of pride & power of authority. Please let God be the judge & worry about what you have been called to speak & your faithfulness to your calling. Or the same measure of which we judge those will also be applied to us. I want to be found faithful to God & then pray His mercy & Grace still abound. We are not called to give an account for what others may call there ministry. Let us pray that such ministries serve God's will & that no one uses words from our tongue to justify that first stone cast in judgement.
Bad answer Paul Washer. God has proven to bring revival in massive waves not just "local churches". I can name many believers in the reform camp who are living in sin. And to say the gifts don't exist anymore is a big teaching error. I lost respect for this man.
What gifts? I have never seen any in any church. We have Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit. The Lord gives us what we need. What value are gifts if you are caught up in the Pentecostal, Charismatic, NAR or Latter Rain movements? They come to naught because you will end up being cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.
I agree with Paul regarding Bethel and Jesus Culture. I do not agree with him that Pentecostal churches and charismatic churches are hell bound. Wayne Grudem book on Reformed Theology is probably the most accurate and honest representation of biblical doctrine.
I love brother Paul and i have learned much from him about the basics of true Christianity, but I think he is very closed minded when it comes to this issue. He has been decieved by Pharisees like John MacArthur and Justin Peters.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are these: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. (Isaiah 11:2-3) In the passage, the gifts are considered ones that the Messiah would have possessed. These are the gifts every Christians should aim for (that's what it means to be Christ-like). And the fruit of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness" Galatians 5:22 Not speaking in tongues, not casting out demons (from a personal experience with pentecostal/charismatics, it's more often than not about boosting their own egos than providing actual help to others).
Jesus didn't allow ANY of his disciples(HIS PERSONAL 11 that SEEN him in the flesh and performed miracles before they were even born again!!) to preach the gospel to ANYONE until they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Luke24:47-49 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things John20:22 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost. You see here that they're already born again because they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit and have faith in his death,burial&resurrection so they are now born again. Instructed to wait until they're endued with power of the Holy Spirit&fire&immediately after you see miracles,signs&wonders as Jesus performed. They're fulfilling the great commission quite literally.
The disciples were not filled with the Holy Spirit until it was poured out in Acts chapter 2 on the day of Pentecost. To many Bible references to quote from.
+Jon Wood I know. I never said anything contrary to that. They received the Holy Spirit (born again) when Jesus breathed on them. They became born again and had the Holy Spirit abiding in them one with their human spirit. They weren't baptized with the Holy Ghost and power until the day of Pentecost, when they were in the upper room. It was prophesied by Joel2:28-32 and Peter ended up quoting that. John the Baptist also prophesied it Matt3:11-12, Luke3:16, John1:33. And Isaiah prophesied about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues and the ability to understand and teach by the baptism in the Holy Spirit(Isaiah28:9-13) I know there are other prophecies but I can't think of any right now, it's past my bed time lol
That is false, in the Gospel of John Jesus breathed on them while saying "Receive the Holy Spirit". At Pentecost they received power and were filled completely by the Holy Spirit.
This man is a SELF APPOINTED and proclaimed critic of all that he does not 'affirm' I prophesy the day, not too far off that God will show Mr Washer He does not approve of this appointment by himself to this position. Don't respond, but make a note of what I said, and remember it when you see it happen.
Why is he not making a distinction between charismatics-Word of Faith- Bethel and Pentecostals? Pentecostals are different and instead of a calvinist/cessationist dismissal of them all Washer should have the integrity and understanding before cursing them all together.
@@toddgeffken1915 Stop following men!!!! All you people who think you need to find yourself a preacher who will tickle your ears. You only need the bible and the Holy Spirit. Stop following men and start following Jesus.
He didn’t mention they made their own commentary Bible that they try to pass off as a Bible translation (The Passion Translation). That Bible is so heavily annotated that it changes the word of God. Some of these people are so arrogant they think they can put words of God’s word that isn’t scriptural canon and convince people that it’s actually the true heart of God.
UNTIL YOU CAN CAN BRING ACCURATE STATES ON THAT.I SUGGEST YOU STOP GUESSING BECAUSE SURELY PAUL WASHER IS AN EVANGELIST. YOU CANT BE EVANGELIST AND EACH EVANGLIST BELIEVES IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT .IF YOU EVANGELIST ,YOU EVANGELIST .YOU CANT BE HALF EVANGELIST AND HALF CARASMATC OR PENTECOSTAL. IF SO, THEN YOURE SOME OTHER CULT. YOURE NOT CHRISTIAN ,YOURE CONFUSED. I BELIEVE THAT JUST MAKING UP WORDS THAT SOUND LIKE SOME FAMOUS CARASMATIC/PENTECOSTAL PREACHER YOU HEARED SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT TONGUES . IN FACT TONGUES IS NOT NECESSARILY THE NONSENSE THAT MOST CARASMATIC AND PENTECOSTAL PREACHERS SPEAK TODAY.IF YOUVE EVER BEEN TOLD TO SPERAK IN TONGUES YOU KNOW DEEP DOWN IN YOUR HEART THAT YOU WERE JUST SPEAKING WORDS THAT DONT MAKE SENSE AND YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE EVEN SAYING. SATAN IS AT WORK AND HE IS SUCCEEDING .BE VERY CAREFUL ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ,LOTS OF SO CALLED CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ARE JUST SATAN BRAINWASHING YOU AND DISRACTING YOU UNTIL JESUS COMES AND ITS TOO LATE.
He isnt talking about pentecostalism AT ALL. He is talking about theological liberalism and prosperity gospel, which is preached by neopentecostals. I used to be a baptist, which I still regard as a blessing and one of the best churches. Now Im a member of a pentecostal church. Nothing has changed regarding biblical ortodoxy and solid and honest biblical values.
When I was first saved, The Lord guided me to a Pentecostal church. It was a good Christ Centred, Biblical Christian Church with wonderful godly pastor and a body filled with the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. The pastor retired and a new young man arrived to take over. He led the church down a different path and that church went Seeker Sensitive and Your Best Life Now nonsense. The Holy Spirit then led me and scores of others out of that church as Paul Washer said. Yes, the Lord will guide His people out of danger when things go wrong.
Amen.
Yes that's true.. God knows who really follows him not by mouth but by heart..
Amen! So glad to hear God brought you into the land!
That’s almost exactly what happened to me as well
I agree with you
It’s the Pentecostal doctrine or the foundation of Pentecostalism thats the issue. Not necessarily your personal experience at your church. There’s a video by Robert Breaker “Why I’m not a Pentecostal” that you can find in RUclips and i come from a Pentecostal church, even i had to rethink the doctrine thats if its truly biblical.
Wherever you fellowship, make sure the spirit behind the Ministry is God. That's all I'm going to say.
Agreed ; Bro. Switzer really knew how to administrate this gift in operation in a congregational setting.
No what you are saying is absolutely untrue I'm really sorry to correct you but you are 100 % wrong. The wrong heretical elements are also recognised as being unbiblical and false by the vast majority of evangelical and karismatic churches. Brother Paul you need to repent and stop criticising pentecostal, evangelical and karismatic churches and Christians. You have a form of faith but denying the power there of... You have God in a box. Remember Hebrews Jesus the same yesterday, today, forever God's power through his spirit has never stopped working, all through history God healed, performed miracles, people continued to proffet
@@markgalletly3726 Jesus commands us to tear these heretical practices down, sir. YOU need to repent and stop reading the Bible through your glasses of TRADITION (if you guys read your Bibles at all). I went to a Pentecostal charismatic church my whole life and had no idea how lost I was... the babbling shabadabadingdong is NOT what the apostolic church did, every time God heals it’s INSTANT and with the purpose of revealing who God is to unbelievers, not to make your back stop hurting. You guys great God like a vending machine and practice the most irreverent forms of worship. I’m done playing with y’all. I love you or I would ignore you and leave it be. Read Matthew 6 and tell me you guys pray like that. Read the OT and tell me you have faith like they did in the good AND bad times. Read Paul’s letters to the churches and tell me you aren’t guilty of letting some new tradition distort the gospel. Tell me you believe God is sovereign. You can’t. Read. Your. Bible. Without taking verses out of context and jumping around. You guys are Biblically illiterate because you don’t have the Holy Spirit and your idolatrous desires for “more of God” and personal magic powers have invited demonic influence into your congregations and into your hearts. Repent. Repent. Repent. And seek God.
@@alexanderhanksxif these sings don't follow ur not a believer. If you believe the Bible this is what it says.
Mark16:16-18 God Bless
@@leslieparmer9327 do you know what it takes to be saved? Because it’s not signs. Y’all too worried about signs but not the fruit???
I was saved in a small charismatic youth church back in the 1990s. I thought the way they fell on the floor having seizures was weird, but I was there to pursue a girl I was attracted to and wasn't interested in religion. But I had recently prayed sincerely for God to show me the truth if He existed, which I did not yet believe. I had many times mocked Christians and didn't know why. During the service, the pastor said that God knows me and loves me, and that He is a living God. I somehow knew it was true. I think I forgot about the girl and I became a believer that night. I started to read the Bible frequently and tried to understand it as much as I could. As a studied it, I found that it didn't match with someone of the things the charismatic church was teaching. I attended many churches and found that all of them had some part of scripture they were conveniently ignoring or teaching against. I left the charismatic church but I never lost my faith in God, Christ and the Bible.
did you get the girl? ……. lol
You just can't put all the pentacostals under the same category. Just the same way that I don't judge all the baptists by Westboro Baptist church
I would agree but I was very surprised about the roots of the pentecostal church. Like many of the apostate movements that came along after 1906 like the Mormon church, Jehovah's witnesses, Christians Scientists, etc. many of these were started by women. The Pentecostals and charismatics are swayed by emotionalism and this appeals to women. They exalt the Holy Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit more than exalting Jesus and the Father. The Pentecostal movement is not for Gentiles. It was for the Jews because the Jews required a sign. After Jesus moved on to the Gentiles with the Apostal Paul, tounges were no longer necessary. This is from Robert Breaker and his cloud church here on youtube.
I am not a Baptist biut where I live there are two Baptist churches a couple of hundred yards apart. A member of either would not be seen dead in the other. One is conservative the other liberal. I fear the Baptist Union of Ireland has deep problems.
@@nancypatricia511 Sorry your analysis/answer is wrong.
Our God is One.
Nothing wrong exalting the Holy Spirit. He is Almighty.
It is flesh that must not glory before God.
Without the Holy Spirit, man has no communion or fellowship with God and the Lord Jesus.
@@nancypatricia511
This is just ignorant, slander.
I appreciate your comment. I was raised Pentecostal and I loved the Lord with all of my heart. Later I became just nondenominational up until about 5 yrs ago when I realized that Christian Reform was really speaking to me. Im glad the Lord gently guidied me to it. I know my family (mother, father, sister, brother and my husband) loved and trusted in the Lord with everything they had. They have all died but I know I will see them in heaven!
I am Pentecostal; however, I have nothing in common with Bethel Church, Hillsong, or Joel Osteen and therefore when I am asked about my denomination, I honesty don't know what to say. I grew up in a different country were the church had the fear of the Lord, went through persecution, and knew that our life is meant to be with trials and suffering. I love my baptist brothers (many of my relatives are Baptists (both of my grandpa's were baptists, one was a preacher and another was a pastor) and the only difference between us is the fact that I believe in prophecies and other gifts and they are very skeptical about it. I myself am skeptical about most of them, but I have seen it work in my life, I see it working in the Bible and God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
I believe the problem with many Pentecostal churches is the fact that many don't study the Bible and believe almost everyone...it's sad, but many Baptist churches here in US (and worldwide) begin to do the same...
Where I come from baptists and penticostals loved each other, went to each others churches, married and most of all had the fear of the Lord. It makes me sad when I look at both of the denominations here in US (at least the ones that I am familiar with) because ppl don't read or know the word and have no idea what the real Christianity is.
Suomalainen helluntailaisuus on onneksi hyvin konservatiivista verrattuna Amerikan helluntailaisuuteen. Itse käyn Turun helluntaiseurakunnassa koska uskon että se on Turun raamatullisin seurakunta(joka ei ole paljon sanottu). Itse olen kalvinisti ja cessationisti joten en tietysti ole seurakunnan pastoreiden kanssa läheskään aina samaa mieltä ja huomaan itse 20 vuotiaana, että seurakuntamme nuoriso on täynnä ei-uskovia. Itseasiassa siellä on vain muutamia kristittyjä. Ketään ei kiinnosta Raamattu eikä teologia ovat jopa vihamielisiä tai vaan väliinpitämättömiä jos puhuu jotain sen suuntaisia asioita. Seurakunta kuitenkin laulaa Betheliä ja Hillsongia yms ja väistämättä näiden harhaopit tulee mukana ja se on äärimmäisen huolestuttavaa enkä oikein tiedä mitä tehdä. Naispuhujat/saarnaajat ovat jo seurakuntaan saapuneet viime vuosina. Sen tiedän että kun saan omia lapsia ja mahdollisuuden parempaan seurakuntaan niin en lapsiani tälle altista.
Real Christianity?
I was at a pentecostal gathering in Stockholm with people supporting Bethel, with 20 thousand people attending from all over europe. They shouted to God, and many times, it seemed like the service was was about making as much noise as possible. I stood there thinking to myself: "God... you cannot move here, because they are doing church all wrong!". But, you know what!? God didnt listen to me (luckily)! Over 2000 people repented of their sins, gave their lifes to christ, and hundreds of poeple got healed of sicknessees. 5-10 people even said that Jesus took away their visible skin scares from a lifetime of self cutting. I learned that day that God does not care as much as we do on how things are done. He listens to the heart of every hungry human being attending the service, and help the people in need! Some shouting preachers at stage can't stop HIM, because God is love.. neither can Paul Washer with his theology. I do not agree with many of the things Paul Washer preach, still I was actually saved from Paul Washer speach, leaving me crying to God to save me in tears. God did, and gave me the gift of LOVE towards God, and hate towards sin! God can use Paul Washer, God can use Bill Johnson. Lets not judge each other, and start sharing in what we have in common, our Lord Jesus Christ.
MrReierz Not a comment on what you experienced. I just want to say. Good thing God leads us even though we're not perfect. I'm a bit frustrated with the Church these days, but also thankful that the Church belongs to God and he will make it glorious, one day.
"and hundreds of poeple got healed of sicknessees."
Do you mean they paid a bunch of little old ladies to pretend like they couldn't walk and wheeled them in the wheel chair and then they were healed and got up and started dancing? Yeah I've seen that before, that is not legit.
@@keepmycommandmentsandlive1607 The sad thing about your comment is that it is very telling of HOW much, rather I should say, how little you value the Holy Spirit. I have been sitting in a Southern Baptist church for the last 8 years, praying for Holy Spirit to show up in power, move the dying congregation into a quickening of understanding of Him and embrace Him for all He is. The pastor there is an awesome man of God and shepherds his flock to the best of HIS ability...residing there for 10 years. As a youth, he was youth pastored by Jack Taylor. If you don't know who that is, look him up. Our pastor is not a total cessationist but has followed the track of a basic Southern Baptist Convention preacher in all other forms. He admits to having asked Holy Spirit to gift him with tongues and to take control of him...years ago in his 20's. But, because it wasn't immediately evident in his perception that he received the gifting, he didn't persevere and he left the thought behind...believing it wasn't for him. Sad, VERY sad. Long story short, he has remained friends with Jack Taylor over the years and has invited Jack and his wife to minister in our church, not once but a few times. When they did minister, there were more than a few healings, including a woman in her mid 70's, being totally healed of scoliosis. Now, you would think the people of the church would want to seek getting to know the Holy Spirit more after that. But sadly, no. He was quickly put back into a box, and left to set somewhere on a indistinct pew, not to be heard from again due to lack of enthusiasm, love, and correct understanding of Him. That church is dying and the gospel message is dying due to the lack of spiritual power being allowed to operate among God's people. WHY is it considered more the work of the enemy than the work of God through the Holy Spirit when His gifts manifest? Have you ASKED yourself THAT question? Could it be that the enemy is doing what he does best? Invoking FEAR into the situation and KILLING, STEALING, and DESTROYING the church by KEEPING it WEAK? Whether you understand it or not, the Holy Spirit is GRIEVED when He is not INVITED into His church, when He is FEARED and His natural displays of GLORY are mocked as being that of the being who is OPPOSITE of Him. Does it make SENSE that when people are drawn more closely TO God through the manifestations of Holy Spirit...that it would instead be a COUNTERFEIT work of the devil? It would be wise to think on these things and seek the Holy Spirit for the answer, before making light of things you choose not to further study and understand. Pax Christi
Well said sir , I have been to Evangelical and now penticostal and have found Good,s love in both.
Our penticostal Pastor, teaches the love and grace of Christ , not prosperity gospel or that everyone is saved but we must draw people in to get them to come to Jesus Christ.
@@keepmycommandmentsandlive1607 So you don't believe that God can heal? It's a rethorical question...
p.s. I don't like what I see with the charismatic and penticostal movements, but I know that my God is mighty to heal and know ppl who were healed of the diseases; however, I believe that He works with the individuals and not a crowd.
While I agree with him, I do think the title is misleading. He's talking about specific churches and not charismatic or the pentecostal denomination.
The title says its about Pentacostals and charismatics, but the question was about bethel, hillsong which many charismatics and Pentacostals dont agree with!
This is confusing!
Exactly. It's very sad that we're all tarred with the same brush. You'd be put under discipline if you tried bringing the Bethel/Hillsong nonsense into our church.
Paul is anti-all of that
Charismatic and Pentescostal are satanic.
Pentecostals are guilty of the same stuff. I was a 4th-generation Pentecostal and babbled with the best of em. “‘My spirit knows I’m healed, my body just hasn’t caught up yet” “You just don’t have enough faith” “I’m believing it” ive heard it all. God’s miracles were immediate and with the purpose of pointing to His authority. He does still do miracles, but not in the same way. If the church’s job was to heal everyone they come across not only would they be 100% effective EVERY TIME, Jesus would have spent His time healing EVERYONE. He empowered the apostolic church to heal and perform SIGNS (that point to Christ’s deity) in the first century because there was no Biblical canon! They didn’t have Bibles! Now, the miracle is the ability to share the gospel as believers and let God do His work in peoples’ lives through hearing it through us AND the miraculous change that God does in our lives after being born again! Maybe God does more, He absolutely can, but these practices come from pride and covetousness of the 1st century apostolic church. It isn’t having faith in God’s sovereignty to believe He didn’t ALLOW your back to hurt. Read the book of Job! He will allow you to suffer in this life, but only to shape you and use you for His glory. There’s a reason for everything and God’s in control. Now, He does answer prayers but sometimes He says no. You can’t just get emotional and shabadabalaba magic your back into being healed. That’s a lack of faith. Absolutely unBiblical and heretical and opens you up to demonic influence.
The spirit of antichrist comes as an ANGEL OF LIGHT to decisive and lead us astray! You guys are dealing with the devil and don’t even know it. Repent and seek truth please before it’s too late.
Ive gone to a Pentecostal church many times its all about control , highly emotional, now i ask you how often does our feelings or emotions cause us to sin , there's pride, jealousy , anger, lust , hatred , denial, or just trying to suppress a temtation , behold i bring you glad tidings, whether your in adam or are in christ , accept and believe in the completed work of christ and exchange your life with his , this is a such a miracle and that jesus live his life in you , overcomeing sin , only jesus has done that in all
the ages before and after , praise and thank the lord , for victory is a person , we know who that is our lord jesus
Then you have gone to the wrong Pentecostal church and those church don't last it just a matter of time before it crumbles down.
I am a Pentecostal and the Church I attend is grounded on this chapter for Salvation which I firmly support, Acts2:38 Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I see that Holy Spirit transform my life and others for the better.
I hope you don't go to that kind of Pentecostal church that says You must be baptized in Jesus name only or you are not saved. If your church teaches that then you are in a legalistic church that you may want to reconsider going to. You can be saved being baptized in the name of the father Son and Holy Spirit. Because it's by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ as to how we are saved not anyting exterior.
@@joshuahuihui5913 the Bible is clear you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ... I know that you are saved by believing, and repenting and baptism either way, but when you go in the name of Jesus, there is something that happens... I believe that even if you are baptized in the name of father, son and the Spirit you will make heaven, because you have already been born of the water
@@joshuahuihui5913 The original early church ONLY baptized in the name of Jesus. Any other form of baptism is heretical. Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:1-5, Col. 3:17. Matthew 28:19 even says to baptize in the name...not titles. If I were to write a check and sign it; husband, son, and friend, you could not cash it. You need the name on the signature line. Too many people are trying to cash in on salvation using titles. It won't work. Iti is not legalistic...it is Biblical. Even the Roman Catholic church admits the original early church ONLY baptized in the name of Jesus. That is found in the Encyclopedia Britannica 11th edition which is written and published by the Catholic church. You will never find anyone after Calvary being baptized any other way in the Bible.
@@josejuan6585 "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" doesn't mean "baptizing them in the name of Jesus and only Jesus."
@@jamersbazuka8055 Baptism for salvation is legalism anyway. There are many people in the Bible who were saved not from Baptism and even some in Acts that were baptised and not saved. You can only be saved by God´s grace through faith in Christ. Baptism is an ordinance, not the reason or means you are saved.
What I have found in these last days before our Lords return is that most Churches will accept Revelation AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT COME FROM REVELATION!!
i love PW... i'm "pentecostal" and my only difference --- in doctrine --- with him(Baptist doctrine) is that im not cessacionist. I think that Bethel isn't pentecostal,
to me a pentecostal is people like AW Tozer, Leonard Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, Dereck Prince...
Then WHAT do you consider them to be?
He's actually a Calvinist more so then anything.
And A W Tozer was an amazing man of God in no way confused!
R.T Kendall, Craige Keener, Wayne Grudem, Gordon Fee, Josh McDowell, Jack Deere and many more are there for authenticating Biblical Pentecostal Movement.
There may be a valid point here. What is a Penticostle? Who are the Penticostles? Are there groups adopting or borrowing the label of Penticostle without fitting in with the brand?
I go to a charismatic church in the UK and it's very set on the word. The word is so important to us, we live in it and by it - especially the original teachings. I get though, that some churches arn't like that. However not all churches are like this.
I also go to a charismatic church in Ukraine and we also have the Bible basis in our church 💜 we live for the Bible
I go to a Pentecostal church and am serving God there with two brothers after church Preaching the Gospel 1 Corinthian 15:1-4.
If I got Re-saved after walking away and living in the world. Should I get re-baptized?
@@zaneallman no where in the bible does it talk about getting re baptized .i had struggled with the same question.i got baptized around 11 or 12 and as i got older i lived in sin and didnt want church but i gave my life to God at home in 2019 at 16 and im 18 now.we need to repent and follow God whole heart.
@@zaneallman that’s really up to you. I don’t thinking it’s wrong to get baptized again necessarily but it is also isn’t something I would suggest.
I am a pentecost and we dont have time to look at other churces flaw or criticize, most of us are busy looking to those who are lost and broken. Say what you want we are free. Freedom is here let Gods name be exalted.
God said His name is YHWH forever and that He wants remembered by THIS name through every generation.
The pentecostals almost cost me my soul when I was young by telling me that I did not receive the Holy Spirit because I did not speak in tongues! I was on fire for God for a few years as a young man, but felt eventually very frustrated and like God rejected me somehow! Thank God for his love that he actualy does have for me, and his patience! After most of my adult life doing it my way, I eventually fell on my face broken and ready to give up on life, when I surrendered and humbled myself and begged Jesus for faith! He immediately oulled me out of the pit, gave me his Spirit, removed my life long death wish, filled my heart with love for Him and my fellow man, gave me true faith , and I did not speak in tongues. I was still wondeing after all those years about the tongues thing, and he gave me an undniable sign that my grandmother saw as well, a miraculous sign that let me know I was in fact re-born of the Holy Spirit! I really still love some of those Pentecostal people I sang and worshiped with years ago, I believe some of them truly loved the Lord! But I think that is a horrible doctrine and i can cause people to turn from the truth! Fortunately, like Paul Washer said, God will show the Truth to those he chooses!
Todd Geffken, I can relate. I was brought up much the same way, and I think of all the youth that I grew up with in the Pentecostal church and not one of them is serving the Lord to this day. I’m forever grateful that God took the scales off my eyes, and that I can now see the truth. Even to this day, my parents look at me blankly when I present the Gospel according to the Bible (that we are wretched sinners in need of a Saviour). I pray for them that they might see.
Hi Infinity Prod., my parents wont recieve the Truth either, lets pray for each others parents! God bless you!
It is a shame, but not all Pentecostal groups believe that speaking in tongues is some necessity or penultimate sign. You are right though, such doctrines are very destructive.
I was told if I did not speak in tongues , I would go to hell. I laughed.
Who told you that
@@kirabeatz9988 my Penacostal fishing buddy. Why does it matter who?
@@gregross5584 Cause it’s not true and sooo disturbing. It’s all about Jesus Christ!
@@kirabeatz9988 Kira , sorry if I mislead you. But I know it is not true, thus that is why my response to him was to laugh. I am completely secure in my faith in Jesus Christ.
You dont get holyspirit from water baptism..obey the lord command for holyspirit ..
St paul said..read
Acts 18:24, 25
Acts 19:1 to 6..
the very fact that people are saying "I am this " and another says that
STOP IT
we. Who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, are ONE body, One Spirit. Who teaches us all things.
the hour is late, you have been bought with a price. it is time to lay aside foolish arguing and seek the Face of Him who redeemed us.
Being careful won't save anyone... so If you know you are a temple of the holy spirit the holy spirit will help you speak Gods wisdom into that person.. A very loved preacher gave a sermon of this and back it up from verses from the bible. God can save anyone he wants so If we are a temple of the holy spirit then why be cautious when you can keep it simple... Being a Christian isn't rocket science its simple, knowing that you have a omnipresent God on your side and that you will be blessed knowing God on earth and we get the greatest gift anyone could ask for... Heaven, If you want to give someone faith, then give them faith you dont need study the bible like you have an exam... keep it simple
Of cause FEDERICK POWELL, I'm very ashamed of this division in christianity because they reject Holly Spirit who he is the one who teaches us all things. The crucial thing is to recieve Holy Spirit thereafter there will be no argument in the body of christ.
So we are one body with the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons who has a twisted view of Jesus? I am afraid I have to disagree with that claim however I do believe in the premise that only Jesus saves, and all those who believe in Christ is ONE in body and spirit. But you must know that believing in an unbiblical Jesus basically implies that you have put your faith in that version of Jesus and the catch here is that only the Biblical Jesus is the TRUE LORD AND SAVIOR. Any deviation from the aforementioned, will not save anyone.
the spirit you get is not holy, or else you would love scripture and sanctification and christ above all things, and all of you clearly dont, you are in the category of "im christian enough" who will hear the depart from me i never knew you, you better repent and take christ sacrifice seriously!
You have a very different picture of Jesus than the apostles, yours is very much less clear...as is mine, relative to theirs. Are you a heretic because of this fact? No. The Corinthian church, in general, had some strange views. Are they less Christian?
We need to follow Paul of the Bible . He was 100% penticostal and maintained spiritual disciplines. Just because few people act funnily, the penticostal truth and the experience should not be ignored.
ceased for 1800 years
God decides when it ceases. Not mankind
@@rickmelhuish1602amen
Pentecost was a Hebrew Israelite feast day and not a religion, so no Paul was not a Pentecostal a religion that did not exist until the early 20th century.
@@thecomingstorm9327 I believe in what happened on the day of Pentecost. I believe the only religion we need is Christ. But as for the Bible signs that people are stating ceased, the Bible has never said that. That’s an ignorant doctrine. As a matter of fact, Jesus said “ these signs “shall” follow them that believe. It’s the unbelievers who won’t have the signs of God following.
Us Pentecostals do not except those groups either!
You are right Paul Washer, all what you said is true and is happened already nowadays. God bless you pastor Paul Washer.
This is a GOOD man - not perfect but GOOD! He's right on the nail when he turns the spotlight on the general evangelical ignorance of scripture. I wonder if God will use circumstances to reveal more of his truth to Paul? Jesus said we would be known by the fruit we display. Jesus also said signs and wonders would follow the preaching of those who believe. Much love in Christ and a very speedy recovery, Paul.
There's none good but the Father according to Christ. You must mean 'decent.'
But also, those who get caught up in signs and wonders can be sent to hell.
I have lived the majority of my life on feelings partly because I have been described as "charismatic," and I will tell you this has hurt me tremendously. I was raised by charismatic parents and we lead a evangelical church and I saw a lot of people come in and out of the community. The truth is feelings come and go, but the Word of God stands as authority. I'm not much of a "worshipper," but even when people claim to know and hear the Spirit I am often times skeptical. I find myself more and more becoming an objectivist in company of Christians.
@@IlIamo John 17:17; Ps. 119:160. As for your traditions sir, I leave them with you and reject them all.
Worship isn’t based on feelings. I found when I walk in my sonship with Christ my feelings have affirmation of the Spirit, there’s no added side play. Tell me what you think. God bless!
I don’t know what an objectiveist is, because everyone who desires truth wants the objective truth. But have you heard of Mohler? He’s the best the best one teaching the gospel today!
People will say they feel God in services. Is it God or your own feelings though?
@@dgh5223 Amen. It's good to check ourselves. It's good to know that every heart is deceitful, that every man is a liar, and that all imagination is vain in contrast to the infallible Word of God.
Hey guys! Just wanted to spread a little hope. Ive been to many pentecostal churches that have done away with the hard side of the gospel (hyper grace preaching), but I did eventually find a Pentecostal church that does practice discipline, with discipline being more and more serious depending on someone's role in the church. E.g. a disciple will be taken out of ministry for 3months whereas a Pastor caught in sin is taken out of a Pastoral role completely and not allowed to attempt to get in ministry again for a minimum of 3 years. Homosexuality is not accepted at all, relationships that are outside of marriage are rebuked and lovingly asked to either become a marriage or separate, and an evangelism event in our church will be cancelled completely if the person leading it falls into sin. If someone continuously sins to the point where its causing a spirit of that particular sin to affect other members in the church then that person is put out of the church for 3 months or more. Women are not allowed to be Pastors and submissiom to authority as unto God is taught diligently.
So yes, whilst there are many pentecostal churches that have done away with the hard word of the bible, the good thing is there are pentecostal churches that have not.
I love Paul washer. He’s amazing! I love Charles Spurgeon as well. I guess I don’t like the Calvinism. I don’t want to get into it.
Pentecostals have great born-again testimonies!!! The thing is, I love their stuff, well probably most of it or some of it. But I also love Baptist stuff and some of the reformed stuff too. Paul Washer preaches the true gospel and he’s really strong! Pentecostal people are alive and their music is great and they have great testimonies. Are there any churches in the middle of all that? Like, are there any churches in the middle, like reformed Pentecostals or Pentecostals that preach the true gospel like Paul washer does? Thank you so much! I believe in the spiritual gifts. They are still active today. But I love Paul washer and Charles Spurgeon.
@@Jesusbride515 im not a pentecostal, but i do believe the gifts are active today, i personally dont speak tounges but speaking in tounges is not the only gift, there is prophesy, there is wisdom, there is faith, there is hope, there is love, there is discernment. Also no there is no denomination between everything you mentioned, you will always find a conflict between them. I also would have loved to find a church like that but i havent yet, pentecostals are great because they believe in the gift of tounges and prophecys but there are more the ones that fake it then who really have it, also they will always focus in tounges because that is the only gift that is visible, now the reformed ones like paul washer i like them because they have pure doctrine, their teachings are straight forward, they dont use music to alter your emotions, they let the word of God do its work. All i have to say my friend, that for us christians to be so divided is clearly a sign of end of times, read your bible and always ask guidenes of the Holy Spirit, without Him you wont truly understand the messege and msiterys in Gods word.
Paul is absolutely right here. I'm so glad the Lord brought me out of these movements and put me in the true church.
I have never been to other Pentecostal churches but all I'm going to say is we have healing in our church, prophecy's and much more. I do not see these gifts in Baptist church's nor have i ever heard a prophecy their or people speak in tongues.
We have had many miracles in are church and it feels alive and like a fire where i cannot say the same for other churches.
True. We have them in Romania, too.
The question really is: Is there any use/need to speak in tongues today, in the age where the majority of the world speaks 5 languages in total and you can literally get an app that translates into/from any language? And by languages I don't mean gibberish like "shallamalla-shallamalla" but actual, spoken tongue. The same goes for healing.
@@jvnd2785 it is much more than you think. Do as the Bible says
@@lexethonor294, truly, you avoid responding to the question. The Word of God says many things but it does not say that we should speak tongues. It was something that the disciples did in the 1st century because they had no other way to share the Gospel.
@@jvnd2785 you need to ask for the Holy Spirit. Read the Bible.
Without throwing hate in anyone's face, I would just like to say, from a biblical point of view, he didn't use any scripture to back himself
Elizabeth Bloedow Well, if he were to use scripture, he'd prove himself wrong. These guys are being arrogant and can't see where they're lead astray. Sad.
Exactly!
Elizabeth - Paul mainly works in glittering generalities - rather than hard Biblical exegesis.
So true!
@The Opposite of a Machine AMEN! I studied to be a pastor at a pentecostal church. I couldnt reconcile their teaching with the bible. This man is one of the boldest preachers around
Sadly, I have never found a church that practices church discipline. ever.
If you can get past what others tell you about Pentecostal churches and visit one, you will see it.
Our does and it's Pentecostal
I've gone to Assemblies of God churches for years, as well as other denominations. None of them practice church discipline, they are afraid to lose tithes and members. I've given up trying to find a Biblical church in this apostate age.
Marquita Martin
Try the Door Christian fellowship or the The Potter's House
I hope you don't mean the Potter's House where T.D. Jakes is head pastor. I know way too much dirt on that whole scene, wouldn't go there if my life depended on it. The other one I will look into.
I don't think you can treat the likes of Bethel Church and Jesus Culture as representative of the whole of Charismaticism and Pentecostalism.
Yeh you can. Because they are at the heart of the movement.
From Hillsong to Bethel to Elevation to ..... www.pctii.org/churches.html
@@adamgoodword7888 ELEVATION isn't even charismatic. Secondly that's most of Christian worship music. Just about all of its gone that way and there isn't much biblical worship music left. Just because the majority goes crazy on doctrine (which is on both sides) you can't say they simply aren't Brothers. And as for the cessation view how can we say the gifts have ceased when they had them in the old testament. That's the same as saying God changes which isn't possible.
@@jandshatton331 beware...BEWARE..of false prophets...they will be WOLVES in Sheeps clothing
The only thing that makes me Pentecostal is that I pray in tongues, the Spirit helps me to pray for my non Christian loved ones and the Lord sometimes shows me Bible passages or words of encouragement to give to people to help them. I am happy to attend any church which preaches according to biblical truth and the Apostles' Creed. I haven't had many problems with Pentecostal churches as they tend to be conservative and Bible based where I've lived in the UK and Australia. Where some people tend to err is in being too casual toward God but I believe that is a modern problem and I haven't seen it in leadership where I've lived.
Charismatic itself comes from the Greek- χάρισμα. That means any good gift that flows from God's love. That being said, in reference to the Gifts of the Spirit, continuationism isn't unbiblical and neither is cessationism. I don't think Paul Washer's discernment of this issue in particular was very on par considering he addresses unitarianism/universalism. While it wouldn't surprise me that there are some whom maybe affiliated with Unitarianism and be continuationists, assuming those two to be equivalents is not a good discernment. My prayer for him is that he gets out and about and encounters and engages with people more and seeks to understand his audience more.
He is does do theology which is far more than many pentecostals
Max Marshall Who Washer? Yes I would expect him and others who are the lead pastors/speakers of the church to. I've not been around many Pentecostals or charismatics to comment on that, though from what I do know, there are those that do which are out there.
Max Marshall....Judge lest ye be judged.
richardmaggio1979 the Holy Spirit is given unto us to judge that which is evil from that which is good hence a born again Christian is not able to be deceived.
ty for using the most taken out of context verse in the Bible - it is appreciated (sarcasm intended)
I would describe myself as a charismatic. I have Pentecostal roots as well. While I disagree with Paul Washer and John Mccarthur on cessationism, I find their teachings really good. God has blessed me through preachers like them in so many ways.
Same. Very strong men of God who love Jesus, yet are throwing the baby out with the bath water when they lump genuine gifts of the Spirit in with heresy like prosperity/word of faith theology. Their lack of nuance causes them to impose limitations on how God operates today.
I also find their teachings good and solid except when it comes to cessationism. They limit God and put God in a box when they think God cannot bestow gifts of the Holy Spirit. Having said that I don't believe that a genuine outpouring of spiritual gifts looks anything like the circus show that goes on at churches like Bethel. Unfortunately, a lot of what we see these days is not genuine but rather carefully orchestrated emotional hype.
@@j.c.5999 Chuck Smith called it 'Charismania', he was right. However, I refuse to apologise for the snake oil salesmen who have dogged the true church since the day of Pentecost itself. I have no truck with them and will have none and resent bitterly being placed by others alongside them.
Exactly! They are anointed men of God. It is obvious. So, why? Why do they insist on pulling tares? You cannot listen to these rants and rationalize they speak in love. And, any man who says he loves God yet hates his brother is a liar.
@@Zionist_Eternal The Bible teaches, through the apostle Paul, that Christians are called to point out false teachers. Paul did this himself. I have a hard time understanding how a believer can have a problem with someone who exposes false teachings/teachers -- particularly when God says we are to do this.
I’m actually sick of denominational rivalries that I’m seeing in America.
Get it together guys,.
Me too!! Jesus didn't have a denomination! ONE BODY!
It’s hard when it comes to different denominations like the charismatic group, where they’re actually leading people away from Christ and possibly to hell. It’s hard not to step in and let everyone know about it, but I know what you mean
Nick Hybner
Jesus’s Church doesn’t have a denomination.
The true Bible, the written Word of God, is what should always be the common denominator of Believers and Followers of Jesus Christ.
It’s not a Christian thing; it’s a human thing. Anywhere you have people, you will have division on ideas, beliefs, topics. Whether an atheist, democrat, republican, a vegan, or football fan.
You need to get it together and deal with it. Human history is rife with disagreements on theology. And it always will be until Christ returns and obliterates it all.
I love reformed theology but cessasionism makes me sad.
jacob maier
Me too. I love John Piper, RC SPROUL and Alaister Begg, but they're missing out on some powerful stuff that the Holy Spirit is doing. I want the *whole* gospel. That's why I don't align myself with any denomination.
jacob maier John Piper is continuationist.
It's a shame that there is horrible demonic doctrine. I agree with that. But assuming that every person who believes in the gifts of the Spirit moving today is wonky is absurd. That's like saying every Reformed believer is a hypercalvinist. We need to properly discern because we know in ALL sections of the church there are people who are teaching false doctrine and are deceived. That's why Scripture teaches not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom
Dominic Polverino
My experience comes fro. sitting in a Reformed church for 10 years back in the 90's. I was the only one in the church who delivered people because the Presbyterian Church I attended didn't BELIEVE IN DELIVERANCE!
They are missing out on a lot of things by restricting the Holy Spirit.
This hasn't to do with cessation ism though? Grudem and Piper and MLJ and Wilkerson etc. aren't cessationist and they would agree totally woth PW about the prosperity preachers/WOF preachers. They are separate issues.
Paul Washer is a Calvinist through and through, of course he's gonna be biased against Pentecostals or any other denomination for that matter, this is what they do.
ruclips.net/video/EwcTVm3JaSY/видео.html
According to his own views, he doesn’t call himself a Calvinist.
Hey Jesse. Did u know Paul Washer has a high respect for Leonard Ravenhill? Reformed folks have a respect for those who believe differently than us. However, Paul is clearly calling out the hard-core heretical stuff. Idk why that is a problem to u?
we're all biased...and?
Paul washer is not a Calvinist, Calvinist believe in more than just TULIP
not all evangelical charismatic is like benny hinn kenneth copeland & those prosperity teachings
nope, some of it is far worse.
Bjorn Egan some far better
@@PapaSeed a small some.
I was one of these 'confused' Christians and have been hurt by the misplaced super spiritual emphasis of many of these kinds of churches growing up.
I thank the The Lord my God He has brought me out of that movement and into a genuine fellowship with Himself.
I just pray that He would have mercy on people in this movement who are trying to be genuine, and lead them out like He did with me.
Amen on everything this man stated in this video, I agree 100%, PRAISE GOD!!! The LORD is cleaning HIS churches, rooting out all "heretics" posing as HIS people as stated in 1Peter 4:17.....
this world has gone insane , its just heart breaking.
The funny thing is that many Pentecostals put posts on fb, ig and other social media affirming him, but he just said he doesn’t affirm them.
I am not ashamed to say that I am very pentecostal and very theologically and doctrinally sound.
others may say that they are not ashamed to say and glad that they are anti pentecostal because of all the grief they cause .
Can't be both
1 Samuel 19:23-14
So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even on him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth. He stripped off his garments, and he too prophesied in Samuel’s presence. He lay naked all that day and all that night. This is why people say, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”
All you have to hear is John Mac Author . The day of Pentecost was real and the Holy Spirit still fills people with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I speak in tongues and I am not some weirdo . I have been for 20 plus years , and I teach it because the power of Gods Spirit gives you the ability to preach with the anointing ! Also to resist temptation and communicate with God on a another level. I understand that there are crazy dog barking Charismatics and "Pentecostals " but be careful Paul and John when you start generalizing . Take heed to yourself
Is it ever recorded that Jesus prayed in "tongues"? And I don't mean earthly languages, I mean the "tongues" you're talking about.
Justin He didn't have to . The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for us. He is our Helper 😇
Jesus had the full filling of the Holy Spirit yet he did not pray with "tongues", he did not teach us to pray in "tongues", why are you praying in "tongues"?
You said, "communicate with God on a another level"
Jesus used words to pray to God, He told us to use words to pray to God (Lord's Prayer), never once did He tell His disciples that when the Spirit comes they should pray in the "tongues" you are speaking about.
If you define the word tongues as it is in the Bible as earthly languages, you'll find that you've been speaking gibberish all along, blaspheming those acts to the Holy Spirit.
be carful my friend when it comes to the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact do some more research on Paul Washer and look up his experience with speaking in tongues. The apostle Paul said I speak in tongues more than all of you.
Be carful my friend when you call gifts from God gibberish . Remember the Jews said Jesus had a 😈.
Just be careful not to speak on things your not familiar with. Hope that helps .
Justin, Jesus said as recorded in Mark 16 that one of the signs of a true believer is that they will speak with "other tongues". The Bible also says that most of Jesus's ministry went untold, because He did so much. And we're not supposed to pray our public prayers publicly. Who knows how He was praying in private but the Father and the Holy Spirit?
I would like a direct answer for a direct question.
When did the gifts of the Spirit stop according to scripture? Who were the gifts for according to scripture?
Whenever I listen to Paul Washer .He always judge other Men of God who preach the gospel .only God has the right to judge .whether they are right or wrong they have to give an account to God one day .but you should not take the place of God to judge others .you do your own job . Preach the word as God called you to do .
poop...you don't judge pedophiles?
The critics are plentiful but the laborers are few.
"The Apostle Paul predicted that the gift of tongues would cease (1 Corinthians 13:8). Here are six proofs that it has already ceased:
1) The apostles, through whom tongues came, were unique in the history of the church. Once their ministry was accomplished, the need for authenticating signs ceased to exist.
2) The miracle (or sign) gifts are only mentioned in the earliest epistles, such as 1 Corinthians. Later books, such as Ephesians and Romans, contain detailed passages on the gifts of the Spirit, but the miracle gifts are not mentioned, although Romans does mention the gift of prophecy. The Greek word translated “prophecy” means “speaking forth” and does not necessarily include prediction of the future.
3) The gift of tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel that God’s salvation was now available to other nations. See 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 and Isaiah 28:11-12.
4) Tongues was an inferior gift to prophecy (preaching). Preaching the Word of God edifies believers, whereas tongues does not. Believers are told to seek prophesying over speaking in tongues (1 Corinthians 14:1-3).
5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers. Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.
6) There are indications that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2. As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
The reasons stated above are evidence for cessationism. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified."
(Source: GotQuestions 'dot' org /cessationism)
Pls explain why I’ve seen miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit with my own eyes and ears then.
My friend as long as they are sick people and the devil is at work none of it has ceased. The Apostle Paul did not predict it. It said it will cease. But God has the final word. I belief it will cease when Jesus return. You all have to stop putting a full stop where God has not put a full stop. If you don't understand it Ask the Holy Spirit to explain.After All He is the one who inspired the writing of the Bible and he is a living Author.
🤷♂️
The title throws me off a little bit and after having read some of the comments, I thought of sharing this. Please read below.
Firstly, a lot of people don’t understand the difference between the modern charismatics and the traditional Pentecostals. The traditional Pentecostal movement began in 1900 and accelerated through the Azusa street revival in 1906. The charismatic movement was a separate movement that began in the 1960s and was independent of the Pentecostal movement.
Secondly, word of faith and prosperity gospel came into the church through individuals such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland and others as well as faith healers such as Benny Hinn etc.
Word of faith and prosperity gospel are not part of the traditional Pentecostal movement. I grew up a Pentecostal and have utmost respect for the early Pentecostals and people such as David Pawson and David Wilkerson. These were men of sound theology and men who believed in the power of the Holy Spirit.
I’m sure that brother Paul Washer here is not talking about the Pentecostal movement as I have heard him speak well of David Wilkerson elsewhere as well as Leonard Ravenhill who was very closely associated with the Pentecostal movement
Also, I would request the reader to please listen to the sermon series on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by Martyn Lloyd Jones. Listening to him preach on that subject is as though one was listening to a Pentecostal.
Having said that, I don’t agree with individuals such as Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, etc. They are very different from the early Pentecostals who were people of humble beginnings, sound theology, people who preached and lived holy lives and believed in the power of the Holy Spirit.
So, I would urge my dear brethren, whom I love very deeply in the Lord, to please make that distinction and not label the entire Pentecostal movement the same as the modern charismatic movement or the word of faith/prosperity gospel.
Derek prince is a good Pentecostal preacher
Paul Washer answers a clear question , and the question is so different from the headlines of this video . In America maybe Charismatic and Pentecostal are mixed , but in other parts of this world, Pentecostals are very decent looking ( all women wear long dresses or skirts and heads are covered) and decent acting believers, (no jumping , no dancing, no falling on the ground and you name it) contrary to Charismatic churches. I suggest you change the headlines .
I go to Pentecostal church I love it I don't agree with a lot my pastor says either but I feel the holy spirit and feel the presence
then you got to confront the Pastor.
Bless you its your reponsibility to question your pastor for any doctrine that may be troubling to your spirit.
Christianity is not about your feelings.
@@cincin4515 Does not our spectrum of emotions come from the Lord?
The idea that mystacism is somehow related to a relationship with God is blasphemy in itself. What do I mean by that. The same people that claim the Holy Spirit lead them to a pentacostal church, will have fellow church members that are living in carnal sin with unrepentant hearts. You see it's possible to be saved and be in a pentacostal church as God saves whomever He wants but it's not possible to be under their doctrine of The gifts, church dissipline and count yourself as being in the narrow road that leads to life and sometimes even their Christology and escatology are wrong. You need not be in a charismatic church, neo-pentacostal or tradisional pentacostal church, they seek signs and wonders to validate their belief in God and actually ignore and invalidate the work of the Holy Spirit within a believer's heart and spirit. Jesus never commended those who saught signs, in fact He condemned them because they would not believe even when He performed many miracles. Blessed are those believe yet they do not see.
I have not seen this inclusive-ism and pro homosexual acceptance in ANY charismatic or Pentecostal churches. I have heard of a couple individuals quit a charismatic church because their charismatic church stuck with the Bible. In the evangelical world I have only seen cessationist churches accept the gay lifestyle - not the charismatics. For every charismatic I have seen "deconstruct" (or quit the faith) I have seen at least 20 cessationists deconstruct. That is MY personal experience - just what I have personally seen in over 50 years as a Christian.
Why would Christ stop sending the Holy Spirit? Why would he stop giving us power and remove from us the intimacy that comes with speaking in tongues.
Because we now have the KJV of the Bible? Cessationism is Ridiculous. We love God’s Word. We honor it. We consider it the infallible Word of God. It is not to be trifled with...but the Bible does not supersede the supremacy of the Holy Spirit or His sending onto the believer by the Son of God.
I am a Pentecostal. I love the church. I have been ministered to by Paul Washer and his anointed teachings on holiness. He is a treasure to the body of Christ. Yet, this divisiveness and spiritual elitism is ridiculous. Pentecostal/Charismatics are no longer the theological impotent church people of prior generations; we have grown. He have studied to show ourselves approved. And we are co-labors in this Kingdom of God. Let us stop bickering and start putting our hands on the plow and keeping our eyes on the harvest. We have too much beautiful work to do in these last days. And we NEED the Holy Spirit’s leadership and power.
Before he ascended into heaven, Jesus told the disciples, who walked with Him 3 years, witnessed His miracles, and learned from His example, to NOT leave Jerusalem, but stay and wait until they receive power from on high.
Friend, you and I need that power. It’s a power that comes after salvation. Quit focusing on what physical signs should follow that blessing (Ie tongues) and start contending for the blessing. He is real. He loves you. He desires to use you in the greatest mission humanity has ever seen. The redemption of all creation! HE PROMISES TO EMPOWER US. All we need to do is ask.
Luke 3:16
John [the Baptizer] answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Acts 1:8
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
"God is love," yes, but it was mentioned very little in the Bible.
"Fear God," now this, this is the phrase mentioned A LOT in the Bible.
"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ..."
"A god fearing woman is far more precious than ruby .."
"Fear me, I am the Lord, ..."
Don't just focus on love, fear Him. Respect Him.
This is the same God who get angry, get jealous, even tho He is patience, and when He decided to act, it is scary.
Really scary.
He could even banished death, so that you can suffer, but not die.
Respect him. Please don't forget it.
I think it is His rules we should fear, since they are absolute like natural laws, and the consequences for disobeying them so terrible.
I believe the brother struggles with a strong religious spirit that causes him to look down upon those who are not like him
No explanation of doctrines that are bad. Just them vs us. And instead of discussing the actual word itself. We lend our opinions and rebuke each other. Christ of joy or of contention. Either way we rejoice.
Honestly, we have to listen to the same elitist baptist bull dust regurgitated by the same village idiots (John MacArthur included) where the charismatic move is knocked by baptist intellectuals - Masher included.
Let me ask this question if the baptist movement was "the be all and end all" that Jesus intended, why do so many baptists live defeated and powerless lives - and end up either leaving the ministry and the faith or resigning themselves to a life of frustrated disappointment. In contrast (and despite their excesses), charismatics live comparatively fulfilled lives, where the reality of Jesus is visible, in virtually every aspect of their lives. My sister and brother in law used to be baptists and now want absolutely nothing to do with the church which unfortunately typifies what I have just said.
Dispite the continual "prophecy" by these so-called intellectual paragons of Christianity, that the charismatic move is doomed to implosion - Charismatic Christianity is growing in leaps and bounds at the expense (I might add) of the baptist and denominational churches ( a fact that baptists really hate hearing). SO why is this happening???
Does the answer lie in the fact that your average charismatic takes Gods word for what it is - the unadulterated Word of life and power and doesn't try to intellectualise it - because they realise that simple faith pleases God (Heb 11:6).
Is it because the average charismatic does his/her best to develop their relationship with the Holy Spirit - while the average baptists strut around like intellectual peacocks, showing everyone how little they know and believe - while their lives eptomise defeated and ineffectual Christianity, that no one wants anything to do with.
The baptists have forgotten one simple truth - Jesus saves - absolutely and praise God for that. BUT JESUS ALSO EMPOWERS - and for that you need the Holy Spirit, the Gifts and the continual baptism of the Spirit evidenced by the speaking in other tongues.
So come one with your criticism - come on with your superior attitudes - remember this truth "pride cometh before a fall".
Wow well said
This unfortunately aged very well.
Paul doesn’t even know, but he was prophesying here!! 4years ago?? Is happening now in 2020
Drinker_Of_ Milk it’s sweeping from all denominations!! Only the ones with string foundations are still standing
Not all Pentecost and charismatics are the same. Not sure if I’m one of them, but I know for a fact they’re not all the same. One of the biggest influential sound doctrine pastors in Mexico is a charismatic. His name is Chuy Olivares. He has really good preaching and has gone against a lot of the false teachings movements like these spread. In other words you can say he goes based on the biblical parameters. So yeah I don’t think all of them are the same.
I have a great Love for Paul Washer and Bill Johnson (Bethel) The problem with this type of dialogue is that washer is stating "I watched a video and the man showed me" when in all reality there are tons of videos, clips, and audio recordings taken out of context, modified, and manipulated daily in order to 'attempt' to make a point.
The fact of the matter is this, if we are going to be BIBLICAL as Washer and MacAuther are rightfully concerned about, then why will they not sit down with any of the people they are criticizing according to the Biblical mandate of Matthew 18:21-35?
Why does MacAuthor refuse to sit down with Dr. Michael Brown who wrote an entire book in response to MacAuthor' strange fire conferences and literature?
Why do the cessationists run from brotherly Love and humbling themselves enough to sit down with the prominent leaders of the Charismatic movement whom they disagree with based on 'Videos" and "Clips"?
Is this biblical Love? Is the the Body of Christ handling one another in the fruit and unity of the Spirit?
No, unfortunately, it's a slanderous witch hunt which is spiraling out of control. So much so that they are now calling people names, laughing at genuine followers of Christ, and ignoring the fact that cessationist beliefs are fading fast all across the world.
Most who are coming to Christ today in foreign countries including millions of muslims in Africa and the middle east are having supernatural encounters with Jesus and then turning around and evangelizing their communities. But you wont hear that at the strange fire conference, because it's an inconvenient truth that cripples their position.
It's not about religion it's not about Charasmatics Pentecostals or Baptists , it is about Jesus Christ and genuine love for God an His Christ. For when we see the sacrifice of Jesus we see our brothers in the light of who God truly made us to be. The enemy has tried to divide the body of Christ. But the Holy Spirit will draw true believers together not those seeking their own righteousness but those seeking after a true encounter with Jesus. The most important thing is the relationship we have with Jesus, we are to walk by the Spirit, so that we abide and continue to glorify God through the fruit we manifest through Jesus Christ our Lord and savior. For these pastors to marginalize Charasmatics and true born again believers as being in Jesus Culture and other mega churches is a terrible misunderstanding. God has a remnant and he or she is hidden, although they work and glorify Jesus. Many pastors who are in churches and pulpits have made mistakes but to say they are a flat out lie is wrong.
I, as a Charismatic (and WoF at that) and can disagree with my reformed, cessationist brothers without demonizing them. It's too bad they can't reciprocate.
The issue I see is that a lot of these charismatic churches is that drives so many people away from Christ. They see the writhing on the floor, the speaking gibberish, etc, they want nothing to do with it. A few may be saved yet many more driven away.
At the end of 1 Corinthians 14, which was intended to be a fairly thorough guideline
on how to conduct general "meetings" among the Body of Christ, Paul says bluntly;
"if any man would be ignorant, then let him be ignorant."
Then, he summarizes his brief teaching, and moves on to talk to them about the resurrection.
Its so sad that he sees things this way because he is so wrong. I know people from Bethel and that is a wonderful group of people who are very passionate about God, Paul just wants conservatism at all costs, his picture of God id very narrow and sad
ruclips.net/video/EIrTS0vTyp8/видео.html
What I find very disturbing is that there are sooooo many different kinds of religions...JESUS PREACHED,BE HOLY FOR I AM HOLY and not other religious garbage
i always thought the fruits of our labors is proof of the holy spirit and everyone receive the holy spirit threw believing the gospel ephesians 1:13 and paul say that there are different gifts not just speaking in tongue and that the least gift we would want
The gifts of the spirit are these: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord (Isaiah 11)
The test of a pastor: does he lead people to more living actions? More judgmental actions? More hateful actions towards others? That is how you know if a pastor is from God, or not because the Bible is very clear on what a pastor is, and a pastor should literally have a spotless reputation above criticism.
I attend a Bethel church that is a subsidiary church of Bethel Redding. I play bass on the worship team whose material largely consists of Jesus Culture songs. The church is biblically sound and is not inclusionistic or universal in it's view of salvation. Paul, can you tell me why you want to attack your brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ over the minutia of preferences. I love you in Jesus Christ and hope you can love me for my church affliation.
He's a true Calvinist, that's why.
Calvinist or not he is a man of God, but I think we can all lean one way hard. I think the penacostal church gets a lot of flack because of the Benny hins and Joyce Myers and Kenneth copelands. If your church is biblical and preaches Jesus and you guys don’t just run around crazy, and fall over, and people speaking in tongues without interpreters. Because that’s why most Pentecostals get flack. Paul teaches us that we should have order in the body of Christ. He says when it comes to speaking in the church
1 Corinthians 14: 27-28,33
If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints
“as in all the churches of the saints” very clear all the church’s.
And the Holy Spirit dose not contradict Himself
@@saved6655 Wow! Very cool. I posted this over four years ago. I agree with you 100%. A little honesty. I have since left that Bethel church. The last year we were at that church, the Passion translation was being taught as preference from the pulpit. The holiness of God was being diminished for more PC rhetoric. A loving God was prioritized over the Holy and Sovereign God. Some new age like practices were being introduced. That was our last Sunday. Paul Washer was right on this one instance. I thank God for keeping my family safe from false doctrine.
@@jerry7663 man very cool, that is amazing how the Holy Spirit works. I pray for those that are saved that are in these circles and I pray that God will shed a light on those teaching these things. But I’m glad things are going good for you my brother. Let’s keep in our word and praising our sovereign Lord and Jesus Christ. Thanks for the dialog my brother. Contact me if need be I love the conversations with brothers in Christ.
i dont come from a christian family. grew up a non practicing catholic.
i went to church and thought it was weird. i read the bible and enjoyed doing the things Jesus taught. God saved me in filling my body and giving me a vision. i had no prior knowledge of the things of church. nobody told me this was possible but God. i am a pentacostal. i cant deny what happened was supernatural and to leave it would be foolish and turning my back on the holy ghost
Just like we overlook Washer's Cessationist beliefs, and is still considered a Christian, he should do the same with those who believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You cannot group churches that believe in spiritual gifts with the coming "apostasy" and the gay/lesbian agenda. He mentions John MacArthur who promotes that the "mark of the beast" is harmless to those in his church. Watch out who you are listening to.
Yes approved of God
Absolutely correct. Pity the men and women who live in the reformed fish bowl. Lets just hope God defines slander as unintentional ignorance.
What most of these fundamentalists fail to mention is that Leonard ravenhill was a Pentecostal. Yes, he was, but didn't make it a major label and didn't join any of their denominations in the USA. Yet so many evangelicals claim him as an influence- how ironic!
The video title is not correct. Its about two "ministries" tied to the Charismatic movement and the Charismatic Movement.
There are many Godly men and women within the Pentecostal movement. He two terms Charismatic and Pentecostal are not synonymous.
The title is a bit misleading. Not saying the author intended to mislead.
Addressing the false teachings on one side is good. However, throwing in John MacArthur without confronting his false teachings confuses the whole thing. It is possible to reject false teachings on both extremes and seek with all our hearts to walk in the whole truth of the whole counsel of God. I just believe that the excesses and false teachings on John MacArthur's side should be addressed at the same time as the other side, otherwise everyone picks sides as if they are the only options and accepts the false teachings of their own group as if there is nothing they can do about it.
What are John MacArthur’s “excesses and false teachings” that you refer to?
@@IvanLendl87 For background, I believe there is a plumbline of Scriptural truth that is often missed between the pendulum extremes that fight for supremacy, so I’m evaluating everything I hear with those three basic options in mind (the plumbline and the two opposing pendulum extremes).
Second, John MacArthur is held up as the flagship of exegetical preaching and teaching (reading “out” of Scripture what God has spoken), with the corresponding torpedo attacks on eisegetical preaching and teaching (reading “into” Scripture things God didn’t say).
His reputation makes it easy for people to miss the eisegesis he slips in.
Because of this constant declaration that John MacArthur is exegetical instead of eisegetical, his disciples do not seem to notice when he does a bait-and-switch routine by talking about exegesis and then throwing in an eisegetical interpretation. He then gets away with doing the very thing his disciples attack others for doing while no one addresses him when he does the same things.
I hope there is agreement that if someone teaches something the Bible does not say, especially in a way that requires disobeying something it does say, that we would call that false teaching without favoritism or partiality.
Some of MacArthur’s Eisegetical teachings I have heard include:
~ saying that some of the spiritual gifts Paul taught the church to use have ceased when there isn’t one place in the Bible that says that (whatever he claims about it, he is reading in an eisegetical opinion to the texts he uses because none of them explicitly/exegetically say what he claims)
~ leading people to disobey what the apostle instructs churches to do with those spiritual gifts MacArthur says are no longer in use (when Paul taught them as if the churches would use them)
~ presenting his eisegesis on these matters as exegesis so that those who are holding to the apostle’s teaching about spiritual gifts within the whole counsel of God are treated as if they are the ones who are false (however, the discrepancy between MacArthur’s disciples and those who follow Paul’s teachings on the matter is because John MacArthur is off on a pendulum extreme that his disciples think is the plumbline so that when they look at people at the plumbline they imagine them at the opposite pendulum extreme)
~ claiming that Christians cannot be demonized when the Bible never once says that, and while many ministries and missions groups can attest to people receiving Christ as Lord and Savior and still having demonic issues to clear up as they begin growing in Christ (again, because MacArthur’s disciples think his teaching is plumbline instead of the eisegetical pendulum extreme it is, they send out their Discernment Snipers to take down ministries that are helping Christians with demonic issues because those people can’t get help in John MacArthur kind of churches. These attacks are an attempt to deny their traumatized brothers and sisters in Christ the help that Christ would give them if the body of Christ was willing to join his work)
~ using the word “implicit” (a synonym for eisegesis) to claim that when the church is not mentioned in a reference in Revelation it must mean that they were already raptured, something that is not stated by God’s revelation, and contradicts Jesus own words that the church will be gathered (taken up, raptured) at the same time as Jesus comes to judge the world
And, finally, this is so serious to me because MacArthur’s Strange Fire conference has done so much damage by forcing people to choose (and fight) between the Charismaniac extreme and his Cessationist extreme instead of calling people to the plumbline of God’s word where everything the apostles taught about the Spirit and spiritual gifts would be honored and all the warnings and restrictions would be obeyed. The Charismaniacs know he is unscriptural in his eisegetical extreme so they won’t listen to him, and MacArthur’s disciples know the Charismaniacs are unscriptural in their eisegetical extreme, so both sides are missing the truth the other side accepts while demanding allegiance to things the Bible doesn’t even say.
And, since I have lost opportunities for fellowship with brothers because of this, it is both serious and personal and worth mentioning in the hopes that someone will see that they don’t have to choose between the two pendulum extremes (Cessationism & the Charismaniacs) when we can hold to the whole counsel of God and put it into practice just as the apostles taught.
Thanks for asking, by the way!
@@MonteVigh then where is the middle way - according to the two extremes? got any examples? Thanks - interesting!
@@LtdMusic I'm simply saying that we are usually taught that we must choose between the extreme and unbiblical expressions of the Charismaniacs or the equally unbiblical cessationist limitations of John MacArthur and his disciples. The plumbline would be those who acknowlede that God still uses all the spiritual gifts to his glory as described in his word, but with all the limitations the Scriptures themselves put on the gifts. When people think they need to choose between Johnny Mac and the Charismaniacs, they are choosing which Scriptures they will accept and which they will ignore. The plumbline shows that we can reject both pendulum extremes and just live by the whole counsel of God on the matter of spiritual gifts.
Wait, so he guarantees that God will bring "genuine Christians" out of Bethel or Jesus Culture? Does that mean all "genuine Christians" are predestined to become good Presbyterians or Reformed Baptists?
What hubris, and theological nonsense. I'd love to see his exegetical support for such a position.
My sense from watching a range of these clips is that personal conduct,. proper and civilised middle class white man behaviour is often the real issue. I'm fascinated as a social scientist as as to how many of you own 'truth'. There is a very wide range of owned 'truth' and claims to 'truth' among you. You look to me more like s bunch of children squobling in the school playground.
Do you think your argument is actually valid?
I found with the Pentecostal church the love thy Neighbour rule goes out the door and when that goes out the door so dose the love the Lord you God goes with it
There a many Pentecostal churches are teach the Bible and the truth, title is misleading.
I am a Pentecost. So you guys believe in surplus grace and don’t believe in prosperity? Rich is not a bad word! God takes pleasure in blessing me. Have you heard of a sentence “God is good”?
Preachers like him will scare away people from church. Never go to a church that scares you. God loves us. And yes I believe in prosperity gospel and I don’t understand why you don’t agree to God blessings.
Also we don’t judge anyone who don’t speak in tongues but you guys are !
We have been loving everyone that’s the reason Pentecostal movement is growing. Not because we say nice things, we do nice things as well. We don’t condemn a homosexual coming to church. Church is for sinners and not for bunch of Pharisees. I don’t theology but I understand that being judgmental will get you stuck in life. Love you all!!
Religious spirits will never let you know the truth and the secrets of God ministering with the Holy Spirit. I am sadden that Paul judged and discredited a movement in its whole Jesus Culture, Bethel, etc..... Being spirit filled and abiding in God's presence will keep us from religious and pharisaic deception...Paul seems to be very bound, dried up, joyless, too serious...but God is exuberant, generous and deep in his way to express his character: more abundant joy, a jealous love and passion and suffering that can still bring you a joy...this man is dried up from the inside out.
This title doesn't reflects what is being asked and said.
Paul Washer was asked about charismatic churches like Bethel, Jesus Culture and other mega-churches. Which really are using New Age doctrines but in the name of Jesus.
How about we all just work out OUR OWN SALVATION with trembling and fear! If your truly born again and filled with the spirit you won’t find this difficult! 🙄🙏🏽
Amen
that's not Biblical at all.
Hazel Scarlett sounds very self-centered. Did Paul give this kind of an example? Quite the opposite actually. We are supposed to care about the spiritual condition of God’s people and Christ’s church and not just let everything slide.
I never learned true grace
Or forgiveness in Pentecostal churches I spent the first 34 years of my life in them
Took me many years to find what grace was
Thanks for sharing the truth! God bless Paul Washer!!!
I attend a prayer group that I pray for because in it there are people who believe in the Book Of Enoch, Joel's Army etc etc.
Paul Washer speaks from his flesh. He says "God moves in Christianity not from big movements but from small, Biblical churches." There is nothing in the NT that says that, he made a claim from his flesh, and he does this a lot.
Christians beware of the things that come from this man's mouth. I still consider him a brother, he just does not know the HOly Spirit personally, only Him on paper, as do most Americanized Christians today.
The Holy Spirit can do whatever He wants. If He wants to move in a big movement like He did with the Apostles on Day of Pentecost, He can do it. It is foolishness for "teachers" like Paul Washer to say otherwise. He is basically telling the HOly Spirit what He can and cannot do and how He can and cannot operate based off his understanding from his fleshly brain, rather than a mind born in the Spirit's FULL wisdom.
Repent, Paul Washer.
Cleveland Street Preachers agree with you, especially when we see the ministry of Jesus himself. Thousands of people followed him. Some for food, others for miracles but I convinced I lot of them really love him. I'm Pentecostal and for me it is impossible not be exalt the name of Jesus when I'm in church. It is something that come from my spirit. Love to worship God at any time
You have a false idea of pneumatology
Cleveland Street Preachers
Dude, you're in the same camp as Benny Hinn... Please don't try and give advice.
Hes talking about these big mega churches and these big movements that accept all religions and all denominations, you're the one whos wrong not him, everything he said was biblical
i see what you did there, paul did not say "small" biblical churches
I'm pentecostal and tend to agree with what he said. Some of the stuff coming out of places like Bethel is just insane. But on the other end of the spectrum, many teachers are dismissing the gifts on the basis of their abuse. Paul didn't come and say "no gifts for you" to the Corinthian church. He corrected their bad theology and then said things like "forbid not to speak with tongues".
Pentecostals and Charismatics are following a false gospel and a false spirit.
There is no such things as gifts.
If the Lord needs someone to speak in tongues to bring Him glory then the Holy Spirit will move upon them. It's God's will not man's will to speak in tongues.
@@adamgoodword7888 And you know this on the basis of... your experience?
I agree the Pentecostal movement has been led astray. That being said do not dismiss speaking in tongues or other spiritual gifts just because the current Pentecostal movement is a heresy.
east wood
Dude you cannot generalise “current Pentecostal” movement as heresy saying all Pentecostal Churches are heretical.
As a pentecostal minister i must say that 1. You're right the pentecostal church in general has been led astray. 2. It's been led astraty by calvinists and specifically the southern baptist convention with it's seeker sensitive and church growth movements. 3. You're confused about the oentecostal mkvement and the charismatic movement. There's a biiiiig difference between the 2 and lumping them together is the same as saying reformed churches are just disgruntled roman catholic churches, and today's baptist churches are just disgruntled reformed churched churches. There are sharp differences between traditional reformed churches like the presbyterian church and the roman catholic church just as there are sharp differences between traditional reformed churches and baptist churches.
The movement was led astray???? The Pentecostal Movement from its inception was to lead people astray, away from the truth, away from Jesus.
Nobody speaks in tongues today. It is no longer needed. We have translators and the gospel is printed in many different languages.
In this day and age people do not need to speak in tongues.
@@adamgoodword7888 that's not true at all. Mere opinion. The cessationist movement was a creation of the 19th centurty theologian b.b. warfield. He and other hyper calvinists created the cessationist movement because of 2 main things. 1. There was a movement falsely representing the grace gifts of the Holy Ghost. And 2ndly, they were scared they would lose control over people because the bible disagrees with calvinism.
What you're omitting is the fact that it took the pcog 50 years to accomplish everything the southern baptist convention has from it's inception till today. That pentecostalism strives for evangelism and reaching the lost 5 times more than any baptist or calvinist denomination. And that it was southern baptists like rick warren, and calvinists like robert schuler which helped create the heresies found infecting pentecostalism. Back before we were infected by the baptist seeker sensitive movement when we had a heresy we faced it down and overcame it with scripture and the power of the Holy Spirit.
When the antitrinitarian theology of sabellianism, and noetism, and the church of christ heretical teaching of baptismal regeneration it was kicked out in about a year and was condemned as heretical with the general council of the assemblies of God addressing the heresy at a general council meeting when theologians and scholars were called upon from within our ranks to exegete all pertinent key passages of scripture. Those who would not repent were given the left foot of fellowship. When the original new apostolic reformation was starting under the name "new order of the latter rain" the assemblues of God not only condemned such heresy but wrote a position paper against it which it stood by up until the baptist and calvinist seeker sensitive movements started infecting pentecost.
You don't know anything about Pentecost, or about pentecostalism, or the power of the Holy Ghost. You should type in your search bar "B.H. Clendennen a trojan horse". You'll get an idea of what kind of stock pentecostals come from.
i dsimiss it because it's hokum
Reading the books of the New Testament, we probably asked ourselves more than once: *"Why 2000 years we do not see those miracles that accompanied the Сhurch of Christ in the I century, as described in the New Testament?"* Why do the so-called preachers of Christ have to prove that Jesus really existed and atheists boldly deny the historicity or divine origin of Christ? Maybe because the Сhurch of Christ has not existed for 2000 years?
The Сhurch does not exist in the form in which it is presented in the books of the New Testament, but there are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and other christian sects claiming to be the place of the Church, but they not have the only thing that distinguishes the divine from the human and is characteristic of just the Сhurch of Christ -the reinforcement of the word with signs, that is, miracles (Mark 16:15-20). Therefore, some researchers doubt the historicity of Christ, and some of them are not opposed to declaring him a an ordinary philosopher, teacher. But even if Jesus were an ordinary philosopher, his disciples would be ordinary followers of Jesus. And they would not dare to write about the miracles that not only Jesus, but also his disciples, could perform. In this world, the great fertility of atheism can be explained by the fact that there is no main opponent of critics of the Bible - the Church. If there were the Church in our time as described by the authors of the New Testament books, where miracles are performed, the sick are healed, where prophesied, and the dead are raised, no one would doubt the historicity of Christ. Then there would be the same controversy throughout the world as in the first century - Jesus the Son of God or the false prophet who seduces the world by miracles. As a result, we can say that the emergence and development of christian sects and atheism was the result of the fact that over the 2000 years the Сhurch of Christ did not exist.
Find *"The Mystery about the Church of Christ"* video on RUclips. The video reveals the prophecy of the disappearance and reappearance of the Church of Christ before the End of the World. Watching this video will give hope to all who sincerely seek God and will interest those who are not too lazy to think freely. Click on my name to watch the video (The video is in Russian, but English subtitles are included).
Can the man answer the question? The question was about Pentecostals and Charismatics. He turned it into Evangelicals. He twisted it, it's called wicken or twisted. He did not answer the question about Pentecostals and Charismatics but twisted it to attack Evangelicals. Can anyone see this ?
Just like a good politician. Then he tries to sell CD's. I'm glad you caught that!!!!
Are you deaf? He said he can’t say they are not saved, that was the whole point of his answer. In other words, and I’m ashamed to have to explain this, he says there may well be people in those churches that really believe the gospel. It’s not up to him to answer that question with a yes or no. God knows current state with Him.
We love to judge & cast stones. When we ask a preacher to affirm another's calling when they serve Christ as well we do the work of another who hasn't sent us but lives to feed our flesh feelings of pride & power of authority. Please let God be the judge & worry about what you have been called to speak & your faithfulness to your calling. Or the same measure of which we judge those will also be applied to us. I want to be found faithful to God & then pray His mercy & Grace still abound. We are not called to give an account for what others may call there ministry. Let us pray that such ministries serve God's will & that no one uses words from our tongue to justify that first stone cast in judgement.
Bad answer Paul Washer. God has proven to bring revival in massive waves not just "local churches". I can name many believers in the reform camp who are living in sin. And to say the gifts don't exist anymore is a big teaching error. I lost respect for this man.
What gifts? I have never seen any in any church.
We have Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit. The Lord gives us what we need.
What value are gifts if you are caught up in the Pentecostal, Charismatic, NAR or Latter Rain movements?
They come to naught because you will end up being cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.
I agree with Paul regarding Bethel and Jesus Culture. I do not agree with him that Pentecostal churches and charismatic churches are hell bound. Wayne Grudem book on Reformed Theology is probably the most accurate and honest representation of biblical doctrine.
I love brother Paul and i have learned much from him about the basics of true Christianity, but I think he is very closed minded when it comes to this issue. He has been decieved by Pharisees like John MacArthur and Justin Peters.
Closed minded about what issue?
I think he means like the gifts of the holy spirit
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are these: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. (Isaiah 11:2-3) In the passage, the gifts are considered ones that the Messiah would have possessed. These are the gifts every Christians should aim for (that's what it means to be Christ-like).
And the fruit of the Spirit is "love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness" Galatians 5:22
Not speaking in tongues, not casting out demons (from a personal experience with pentecostal/charismatics, it's more often than not about boosting their own egos than providing actual help to others).
True Christians, we shouldnt do nothing as modern day 'Christianity' turns man-centric , we need to boldly speak the truth in love.
Jesus didn't allow ANY of his disciples(HIS PERSONAL 11 that SEEN him in the flesh and performed miracles before they were even born again!!) to preach the gospel to ANYONE until they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Luke24:47-49 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things John20:22 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost. You see here that they're already born again because they RECEIVED the Holy Spirit and have faith in his death,burial&resurrection so they are now born again. Instructed to wait until they're endued with power of the Holy Spirit&fire&immediately after you see miracles,signs&wonders as Jesus performed. They're fulfilling the great commission quite literally.
The disciples were not filled with the Holy Spirit until it was poured out in Acts chapter 2 on the day of Pentecost. To many Bible references to quote from.
+Jon Wood I know. I never said anything contrary to that. They received the Holy Spirit (born again) when Jesus breathed on them. They became born again and had the Holy Spirit abiding in them one with their human spirit. They weren't baptized with the Holy Ghost and power until the day of Pentecost, when they were in the upper room. It was prophesied by Joel2:28-32 and Peter ended up quoting that. John the Baptist also prophesied it Matt3:11-12, Luke3:16, John1:33. And Isaiah prophesied about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit by speaking in tongues and the ability to understand and teach by the baptism in the Holy Spirit(Isaiah28:9-13) I know there are other prophecies but I can't think of any right now, it's past my bed time lol
+Jon Wood people who deny this might as well tear out so many pages from their bibles amen brother?
That is false, in the Gospel of John Jesus breathed on them while saying "Receive the Holy Spirit". At Pentecost they received power and were filled completely by the Holy Spirit.
This man is a SELF APPOINTED and proclaimed critic of all that he does not 'affirm' I prophesy the day, not too far off that God will show Mr Washer He does not approve of this appointment by himself to this position. Don't respond, but make a note of what I said, and remember it when you see it happen.
Did God say that Paul Washer has to approve a group to be of God
We said my friend
@@nickhybner8485 You said what now?
Amen!
Why is he not making a distinction between charismatics-Word of Faith- Bethel and Pentecostals? Pentecostals are different and instead of a calvinist/cessationist dismissal of them all Washer should have the integrity and understanding before cursing them all together.
He doesn't speak to biblical differences... just his beliefs.
@@toddgeffken1915 Stop following men!!!! All you people who think you need to find yourself a preacher who will tickle your ears.
You only need the bible and the Holy Spirit.
Stop following men and start following Jesus.
He didn’t mention they made their own commentary Bible that they try to pass off as a Bible translation (The Passion Translation). That Bible is so heavily annotated that it changes the word of God. Some of these people are so arrogant they think they can put words of God’s word that isn’t scriptural canon and convince people that it’s actually the true heart of God.
it's interesting that most evangelicals don't believe anything that he just stated
UNTIL YOU CAN CAN BRING ACCURATE STATES ON THAT.I SUGGEST YOU STOP GUESSING BECAUSE SURELY PAUL WASHER IS AN EVANGELIST. YOU CANT BE EVANGELIST AND EACH EVANGLIST BELIEVES IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT .IF YOU EVANGELIST ,YOU EVANGELIST .YOU CANT BE HALF EVANGELIST AND HALF CARASMATC OR PENTECOSTAL. IF SO, THEN YOURE SOME OTHER CULT. YOURE NOT CHRISTIAN ,YOURE CONFUSED. I BELIEVE THAT JUST MAKING UP WORDS THAT SOUND LIKE SOME FAMOUS CARASMATIC/PENTECOSTAL PREACHER YOU HEARED SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NOT TONGUES . IN FACT TONGUES IS NOT NECESSARILY THE NONSENSE THAT MOST CARASMATIC AND PENTECOSTAL PREACHERS SPEAK TODAY.IF YOUVE EVER BEEN TOLD TO SPERAK IN TONGUES YOU KNOW DEEP DOWN IN YOUR HEART THAT YOU WERE JUST SPEAKING WORDS THAT DONT MAKE SENSE AND YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE EVEN SAYING. SATAN IS AT WORK AND HE IS SUCCEEDING .BE VERY CAREFUL ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ,LOTS OF SO CALLED CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ARE JUST SATAN BRAINWASHING YOU AND DISRACTING YOU UNTIL JESUS COMES AND ITS TOO LATE.
He isnt talking about pentecostalism AT ALL. He is talking about theological liberalism and prosperity gospel, which is preached by neopentecostals. I used to be a baptist, which I still regard as a blessing and one of the best churches. Now Im a member of a pentecostal church. Nothing has changed regarding biblical ortodoxy and solid and honest biblical values.