Symbolism can work in rather convenient ways like that..:) Thanks for part 2, looking forward to a follow-up. If you plan on covering the material of the book in more detail, I feel like the main concept I struggled with was 'God's name' discussed in chapters 22 and 23. God's revealed identity is 'I am what I am'. This is explained as something like 'act in accordance with your words'. I see the symbolism as it relates to the commandments, as is described in chpt 23, but struggle to grasp why this is God's revelation and what exactly it means. Would appreciate any thoughts you have on this.
@@eoinmccarry4175 could you describe your struggle with Pageau's points on God's identity as I AM what I AM as God's revelation? I have some confusions around these points as well. I am circling back to investigate further. I find Chapter 13: wisdom and understanding, helpful in understanding chapter 23.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ve been thinking about it and think I’ve come to something more substantial than before. I can’t remember if Matthieu talks about it directly in the book or if I came across something online, but the inversion of God’s identity makes this issue clearer for me. So, God’s identity is ‘I am what I am’ / ‘being’. And the law is an expression of God’s identity. Effectively acting under the law is then an affirmation of God’s identity. Further, acting under the law is to partake in being/creation, as this allows God to manifest his identity. This manifestation, as described in chapter 23, is explained as ‘I am (on earth) what I am (in heaven)’. The inversion then is a rejection of the law, or to decline God’s identity - i.e. I am (on earth), not what I am (in heaven). ‘I am not what I am’ is of course circular, and could be seen on the human level as, ‘I act in contradiction to my words’. So God’s identity is a description of the correct union between heaven and earth / wisdom and understanding. Thanks for the recommendation, chpt. 13 helped clear this up.
Enjoying the content. this book has had a profound impact on my life, I have studied it often and you have presented deeper insights than I have come across personally. Thank you for sharing
@@DerekJFiedlerI first came across the Pageaus work when I was 18. I was raised Mormon (literal interpretation of the Bible as historical fact, full dismissal of icons/symbolism, etc.) For me, the profoundity of the text in combination with Jonathan's videos broke down the "thorns" and provided fertile ground for a new, and much more tolerable understanding of the Bible, and Christianity in general
@@andrewnelson3714 thank you for sharing your story. I can relate in many ways. So where do you find yourself now? Feel free to message me at derekjfiedler@gmail.com too.
Ah, I haven't visited the connections to Jacob/Esau to the brothers Pageau. Thanks for that. Matthieu has excellent insights into the descendants of Adam/Eve, quite provocative.
Just curious, about how many times do the words "love" and "wisdom" occur in this book, in relation to God and Heaven? That is an interesting side point you made about the roles of foreigner and familiar being played out by the Pageaus. Have you ever considered giving up your cell phone? I gave up my cell phone years ago, and though I am less connected to people on a social/superficial level, the need for connectivity and communication is still filled, it's just on another level.
Firstly, wisdom is an important element in the language of creation. Pageau mentions wisdom often, namely in Chapter 13. Love is rarely mentioned to my knowledge.
Secondly, regarding cell phones, I found this book quite helpful in establishing a healthy arrangement with my smartphone, particularly his passages on work/rest/sabbath and ornamentation. Historically, I spent about two years without a phone while traveling and a few years using a dumb phone. I share your experience; if anything, connections with people increase without or with little usage of cell phones. You have me reconsidering putting it away again :)
@@DerekJFiedler A world view without love? Sounds like a dystopian wasteland.. I'm glad I didn't read this response before bedtime. I woulda had nightmares. ha..
@@heathersmith6305 it would be misleading to say that love is missing from the text. If love is understood as unity in multiplicity or communion of many members, than yes Pageau's work helps us learn about love, be it implicitly.
@jay I have access to email and messenger, but I don't use it much. I have found that since I don't date, do drugs, party, or engage in gossip, people don't really feel much of a need to contact me. Neighbors are always welcome to come by and knock on my door, if they need help with something, and people can stop just to say hello, while I'm out picking up trash by the local river, beach or along the highway in my town. I like to keep things simple.
I just ordered the book. Is it going to be possible to learn from this book if I believe that God created everything in seven actual days? I think I've heard Matthieu say that he doesn't think seven literal days is the right way to understand creation.
@@DerekJFiedler awesome. I like your content btw. I've been trying to find some more people discussing symbolism and meaning and it was a nice surprise to find your channel.
Nicely done Derek. You are bolder than I in bringing the "priest and prophet" to light. I was holding that one in.
Now it's your turn to take it to the next level ;)
@@DerekJFiedler Dude, I'm hoping to find the time. We just had twins, making it 6 kids. I'm sleep deprived and covered in baby puke. 😂
@@looqo7632 oh my. Yeah bless you brother. Perhaps you will find a point of transcendence in the midst of it all.
I had to rely on natural lighting. Notice how the video gets darker as I talk about the symbolism of time and the setting sun? Just sayin...
Symbolism can work in rather convenient ways like that..:) Thanks for part 2, looking forward to a follow-up. If you plan on covering the material of the book in more detail, I feel like the main concept I struggled with was 'God's name' discussed in chapters 22 and 23. God's revealed identity is 'I am what I am'. This is explained as something like 'act in accordance with your words'. I see the symbolism as it relates to the commandments, as is described in chpt 23, but struggle to grasp why this is God's revelation and what exactly it means. Would appreciate any thoughts you have on this.
@@eoinmccarry4175 could you describe your struggle with Pageau's points on God's identity as I AM what I AM as God's revelation?
I have some confusions around these points as well. I am circling back to investigate further. I find Chapter 13: wisdom and understanding, helpful in understanding chapter 23.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ve been thinking about it and think I’ve come to something more substantial than before. I can’t remember if Matthieu talks about it directly in the book or if I came across something online, but the inversion of God’s identity makes this issue clearer for me.
So, God’s identity is ‘I am what I am’ / ‘being’. And the law is an expression of God’s identity. Effectively acting under the law is then an affirmation of God’s identity. Further, acting under the law is to partake in being/creation, as this allows God to manifest his identity. This manifestation, as described in chapter 23, is explained as ‘I am (on earth) what I am (in heaven)’.
The inversion then is a rejection of the law, or to decline God’s identity - i.e. I am (on earth), not what I am (in heaven). ‘I am not what I am’ is of course circular, and could be seen on the human level as, ‘I act in contradiction to my words’. So God’s identity is a description of the correct union between heaven and earth / wisdom and understanding. Thanks for the recommendation, chpt. 13 helped clear this up.
I’m obsessed with diagrams. If I’m reading a book without them, I often just draw my own lol.
So true! I am significantly disappointed if the book has narrow margins or no blank space at the end of chapters.
Same!
When the fractals kick in.......
Mind blowing indeed
Enjoying the content. this book has had a profound impact on my life, I have studied it often and you have presented deeper insights than I have come across personally. Thank you for sharing
You're most welcome. I'm glad it's helping. How would you say it's changed your life? Or changed your perspective?
@@DerekJFiedlerI first came across the Pageaus work when I was 18. I was raised Mormon (literal interpretation of the Bible as historical fact, full dismissal of icons/symbolism, etc.) For me, the profoundity of the text in combination with Jonathan's videos broke down the "thorns" and provided fertile ground for a new, and much more tolerable understanding of the Bible, and Christianity in general
@@andrewnelson3714 thank you for sharing your story. I can relate in many ways. So where do you find yourself now?
Feel free to message me at derekjfiedler@gmail.com too.
I noticed a similar stunt of symbolism with my brother and me. I'm very much like Jacob and he's a lot like Esau.
Ah, I haven't visited the connections to Jacob/Esau to the brothers Pageau. Thanks for that. Matthieu has excellent insights into the descendants of Adam/Eve, quite provocative.
If Jonathan is the priest, Mathieu is the prophet. Ok. You get it. You know what is going on here.
Great job, Derek!
Thank you! This was my favorite in the analysis trilogy. Have you read the book?
@@DerekJFiedler of course! I also have a review of it on my channel. In Polish though...
@@muadek Hey, awesome!
Epic intro btw
Me: listening in another tab *hears*
Derek: "...If you look at what we've COVERED"
Me: "MMMM... you."
Lol really great man, learned a LOT.
Just curious, about how many times do the words "love" and "wisdom" occur in this book, in relation to God and Heaven? That is an interesting side point you made about the roles of foreigner and familiar being played out by the Pageaus. Have you ever considered giving up your cell phone? I gave up my cell phone years ago, and though I am less connected to people on a social/superficial level, the need for connectivity and communication is still filled, it's just on another level.
Firstly, wisdom is an important element in the language of creation. Pageau mentions wisdom often, namely in Chapter 13. Love is rarely mentioned to my knowledge.
Secondly, regarding cell phones, I found this book quite helpful in establishing a healthy arrangement with my smartphone, particularly his passages on work/rest/sabbath and ornamentation.
Historically, I spent about two years without a phone while traveling and a few years using a dumb phone. I share your experience; if anything, connections with people increase without or with little usage of cell phones. You have me reconsidering putting it away again :)
@@DerekJFiedler A world view without love? Sounds like a dystopian wasteland.. I'm glad I didn't read this response before bedtime. I woulda had nightmares. ha..
@@heathersmith6305 it would be misleading to say that love is missing from the text. If love is understood as unity in multiplicity or communion of many members, than yes Pageau's work helps us learn about love, be it implicitly.
@jay I have access to email and messenger, but I don't use it much. I have found that since I don't date, do drugs, party, or engage in gossip, people don't really feel much of a need to contact me. Neighbors are always welcome to come by and knock on my door, if they need help with something, and people can stop just to say hello, while I'm out picking up trash by the local river, beach or along the highway in my town. I like to keep things simple.
I just ordered the book. Is it going to be possible to learn from this book if I believe that God created everything in seven actual days? I think I've heard Matthieu say that he doesn't think seven literal days is the right way to understand creation.
Go for it. I don't think it will be a stumbling block for you. Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
@@DerekJFiedler awesome. I like your content btw. I've been trying to find some more people discussing symbolism and meaning and it was a nice surprise to find your channel.
The familiar and the foreign...nice :) like the priest and the prophet...or the mother and the father...or body and mind...earth and heaven...
Yep, you get it!