I made a sheet yesterday along with a bar chart displaying the results, I Did not use all the data points, just distance to break, reset and peak force. Maybe @SIGMECHANICS will say that I am not using all of the correct data points to select a trigger and I need to include another data point!
Thank you! This video took a year to make, I’ve been acquiring triggers for this since the channel started. I’ve always wanted to make this video, I’m glad it’s finally out!
You did a very complete analysis of the P320 trigger. I think you need another video explaining how these stats affect the shooter. There is a very large amount of data and many just don't understand how it effect them. Again fantastic job!
Agreed! I did start to include something like this in that video but it got a bit too long so I cut it out. I’m right there with you though, I feel that I should do an update video purely for that. Thanks!
This is phenomenal. The first time someone quantified how the triggers behave. This is a great class for engineering! Thanks for all your curiosity and effort!
Yes YOU ARE the "SIG MECHANIC" well-done, very professionally done and absolute info needed that we'll get nowhere else but from you. Thank you and Kudos!
Thank you! That video took a year to make but I am so happy to have it out for the community to use! Some interesting information coming out soon as well inspired by this video (for better or worse) it’s going to help this community understand their guns better.
Holy crap your attention to detail is freaking amazing! The way you explain and describe things is top-notch, man! There is no way a video like this should be free. I can't imagine the time and money invested just to make this piece of art! I'll go ahead and say it for all of us, THANK YOU! Seriously, I hope you get 10 million subs and become super successful. Your love of sig and passion of firearms is evident just in how you speak in your videos. Thank you again! There is so much amazing information in this video alone. I'm about to dive into your catalog of videos. I just got a 320 and want a tune-up. I trust any products you recommend.
Wow! Thank you very much for your kind words. I really enjoy doing this work and I hope as time goes on I can focus more on this channel so I can post more consistently. I have so many ideas but not so much time! I think you’ll like the stuff I’m currently working on now too, stay tuned! Thanks again!!
Fantastic job. I was however waiting for a grand prize winner at the end, even though I understand there is no such thing because it's subjective, but it's still fun none-the-less.
I know. I generally try to keep the channel strictly to the facts and avoid making it a competitive thing, people like what they like and I want to foster a positive community “vibe”. However, many people have asked me to put something together similar to what you’re asking, and I feel like it is a fantastic idea, as it only promotes the facts in the video. So keep an eye out I will put something out soon!
Thank you so much for making this video. I was so on the fence about all the triggers i was looking at and now i know which one i want to buy. Thanks for the effort. You probably saved me a few hundred in needing to swap out triggers lol
The 3D model is freaking amazing! It really helped somebody like me that thinks and pictures and sees things in their mind mechanically. It'd be cool if there was a place on your website to go and play around with it. Thanks for all your hard work
Great Video with great data! It would be interesting to see once you include the complete kits (ie Apex, Grey Guns, Sig Armorer and any others). I do love the videos and the grat content!
Amazing job. Would love to see a similar video conducted including the use of the Apex trigger bar. As I've read the Apex trigger bar increases the pull weight, with some models, but is overall designed to reduce travel distance.
It's pricey but tough to beat that TSA trigger kit. I get pretty close results with AC spring tuning, apex trigger bar, gray guns adjustable trigger, and some DIY sear adjustments and polishing. Thanks to your DIY competition trigger video!
This is a phenomenal video! I would love to see which triggers are compatible with the Apex Trigger Bar, and the trigger bar's effects shown through the tester.
It took about a year to gather all the triggers and a few more weeks to test them all and document the output. I did it because I saw how many people kept asking the question “how does X trigger perform”, and I wanted to give the community the ultimate guide! Thanks for watching!!
Awesome video. Just ordered and empire to try out. Also ordered reduced power sear springs and increased trigger return spring. Can wait to try it out. Thanks
Hey John, good to hear from you again. Thanks! This was my hardest video to make as it actually took a little over a year to obtain every trigger (those discontinued ones are a pain to find). Now that the video is up and I’m getting such great responses, it all feels worth it.
Crazy to see the different break-angles. Have heard it's different on different P320 triggers, but never expected some of them to be so far outside the range of others. Some break around 90 and some break far beyond that (give or take)... and some even appear to start at about 90 (or even beyond that). Just never noticed that before not having really ever seen them being compared. Have probably see videos with all of them, but just never together (or in this way).
My favorite measurement of a trigger is RESET. It is my understanding that the distance to reset and overall travel distance is the most important to rapid shooting.
Your videos are the most informative in a simple way on RUclips. I figured out the basic operation of the Sig FCU but your videos helped smooth out my ruff edges. If you don't mind a little creative criticism you might want to use a snap cap to prevent downward motion of the slide that contributes to creep. Just a suggestion.
I’m so glad to hear it. I really do strive to keep it simple but also balance that with bombarding you with data and information. It’s hard sometimes but seems to be working so far! As for the snap cap, each test was done with 10 snap cap cartridges (in order to max out spring tension), therefore, what you are seeing is the natural movement of the sear/striker interacting like in all striker fired pistols.
@@SIGMECHANICS I did a demonstration for some of my club members at the range that said P 320s are prone to discharging with out pulling the trigger. I took my three P 320s in, one factory original, one slightly modified and one heavily modified. With the lower part of the slide cover cut off giving me access to the sear. I then chambered a primed case, no power or projectile. I then pushed down on the sear and released the striker. The primer didn't go off, there wasn't even a mark on the primer. I did this to all three guns proving the striker block did it job in each case and that the Sig Sauer P320 is safe. I'm going to make a video of it to quiet the less informed. But if you beat me to it that's fine with me. I know you can do a better job of it than me. Regards Gary
@@garymccausland1272 Thanks! I haven’t gone as far as putting in a primed cartridge in but I have tested this in other videos. Definitely put out a video if you can, this is important for the community and I think it will be appreciated.
@@SIGMECHANICS Great work, thanks. I'm by no means a stat guy but possibly a breakdown of trigger weight lowest to highest, travel least to most, etc., etc. Yeah I realize 😁 it's a lot of work. Thanks again.
@@SIGMECHANICSI’d say an excel file, formatted as a table with headers, so that each viewer can sort the data as they wish. I’d be happy to help put it together! I’ll comment on the SigTalk thread 😉
Thanks. I of course have my own opinions, but when it comes to the content I put out on the Sig Mechanics channel, I want it to be independent of my thoughts. I generally try to just share raw data. Over time, i’m hoping this then can be the go to source for information on the various Sig guns because of this.
I picked one based on your past videos. My choice is in this video. I wouldn’t point out some of the data doesn’t reflect that some triggers can be tuned via adjusting set screws that dial in the pre/over travel. That is huge.
@@ErikS308 yeah, in this video I tuned to manufacture specs, but I could have tightened it more if I wasn’t trying to avoid tuning to my own settings. Also, most people don’t know this but you ARE affecting safety when using tu able triggers… video on that coming soon.
@@SIGMECHANICS Absolutely. Taking up pretravel will affect the drop safety as soon as you get into the sear block getting pushed up by the trigger movement. Plus there is no fudge factor in handling the weapon because you don't have the "prep the trigger" action that is taught by some instructors. Be careful.
Depending on what your trying to get out of your FCU. There’s no doubt that adjustable triggers have the advantage. (If you’re not considering lock lever engagement).
@SIGMECHANICS absolutely, I was just kidding anyways but I put the AC adj on my Gucci flush comp build. Installed all the parts by my self thanks to you bro.
@@CycloneGunworks Ha! Of course! You know I try to keep it neutral, (but I too have my preferences on my builds). The AC is popular for a reason…it’s just simply a great trigger!
Can you do a video comparison between the trigger replacement alone and the trigger replacement with additional replacement parts? Like Apex trigger vs Apex trigger and kit?
@@SIGMECHANICS I would honestly love if you just threw all the data in a sheet with each row being a different trigger. Then we can sort, filter, make charts, etc to our hearts’ content. Plus less work for you lol
One problem I have discovered with the 320 trigger weight is that there is no consistency in trigger pull weight. I have examined over a dozen 320’s (pre and post upgrade) I found that there was a variation from 4.4 to 8.5 pounds. Also, owners of 320’s need to be careful choosing kydex holsters since different trigger designs can cause a conflict with the groove of the trigger used in the mold to make the holster. If a straight trigger is put into a curved trigger molded holster, it can cause trigger movement disengaging the internal safety lock tab as if only needs about 1.35 mm of travel for it to disengage. I would like to see you take 10 stock identical 320’s and use this machine to see what consistency you get.
Great channel. Port your channel to Rumble also because RUclips is going to notice your feed and shut the technical data off. They will scream “construction” and give you strikes.
I would absolutely LOVE to see an excel sheet with this data / a better way to compare this amazing but diverse data! It would greatly greatly help to decide which I want! Secondly I would absolutely absolutely love a video on the apex trigger kit! No just how it works mechanically, but the proformance you get from it. I can't find anyone that isn't just showing it off but actually showing it pros and cons! Especially compared to a stock trigger and a few other respectable trigger jobs! I want it but I can't find any ACTUAL reviews!
Amazing video that must have taken a lot of work and time. Before I watched it I was thinking to buy a trigger from agency arms for a better sense of safety. But now I'm wondering if it's worth it.
@@SIGMECHANICS Exactly... I meant that as a compliment... I apologize I truly meant that as praise thinking of all the time and preparation it took and man hours involved!
@@hopewilliams6705 lol, I know what you meant. I was trying to be funny too, but it’s hard to convey tone on text. This video really was the hardest one to make yet…took a whole year!
This might be an area you dont want to touch, because you dont want to be seen as saying parts are safe to use together, but id love to see info that on parts compatability. Like using the grayguns trigger and sear, with the apex bar and /or sig armorer parts.
I did want to do something like that, but the logistics of trying to pair so many combinations makes it unlikely. I might have to do something where I will test specific combinations or parts per subscriber requests just for fun on the side.
@SIGMECHANICS I try to avoid posting the drama and rivalries and things manufacturers have posted , but I specifically have thought about using the Grayguns trigger and sear, with the striker and trigger bar from The Sig Armorer. I'd love to see the safety values and benefits of such a choice because the Grayguns sear is a superior material and its been said that the 17-4 is not a prime material for a sear.
It seems like a very niche choice, but such a video would be a premium choice when trying to benefit the pitfalls of mixing manufacturers because it seems like an extreme case. The sig armorer doesn't list it, but they will sell individual parts.
First of what an incredible video. Thank you so much for all that effort! I was wondering if there was any chance you might know or could test to find out how much a trigger can weigh and still be drop safe? In other words, are you able to find out at what weight triggers fail drop test? Like the Empire Stiletto seems to be too heavy to pass drop safe unless you remove curved part, then again, I could be completely wrong and both could be safe.
Thank you! That’s an interesting thought, I assume the current design is the absolute max weight needed to guarantee fixing the problem, I wonder what the absolute minimum is! I’ll add it to my list of future video ideas!!
It does work, the design is pretty good for the problem it’s trying to solve (which is for the market that likes to have the added degree of safety on the trigger). The overall design however does not give it a great performance output however as you can see in the results.
I'm waiting/ Hoping someone can make something that gets rid of the "thunk" or "thud" feeling the p320 has when the trigger breaks. I wish it had more of a "Click" or "Snap" like the VP9
Is the skeletonized trigger tested in the video the same trigger on the Legion? If so, this test shows it’s much heavier than what most people report the trigger weight to be.
Thanks for the reply, do you have any idea why most report a 3-4lb pull weight? I’m curious as to why the vertical axis skips around from 2 to 3lb increments. Does the device output the data this way automatically?
The only thing I could think of would be that almost all the tests that you see are done by human hands, using a handheld device, whereas in this video, everything was done mechanically with a computer with no input from a human. Meaning, the pulls are extremely consistent and there is no jerking motion. The direction of travel is the same throughout the entire trigger pull. All that to say, there’s a likelihood that the trigger scan will output substantially more accurate results and the difference you are seeing is actually the real outputs. I of course did not show this but I actually ran 3 tests for each trigger to assure the pulls were consistent all the way through. So what you see is truly what you are getting.
@@SIGMECHANICS I did a little research on Sigs website. They claim the skeletonized trigger provides a 30% reduction in pull weight vs the stock flat trigger. Yet your test seems to show the opposite effect. 4.8lbs for the regular flat triggers vs 6.1lbs for the skeleton version (the graph shows 5lbs but the results are reported at over 6lbs). Could this be an instal or calibration error in your testing? I have a legion and although I don’t have any equipment to test things and can definitely feel a reduction in trigger pull weight vs the other sig triggers tested here.
Ah, thank you! That looks to be an error in the chart!! I looked at the graph and I can see it was closer to 5lbs (maybe just below that even), but it looks like that 6lb was brought forward from the trigger before it. I will have to see if I can fix that in the video or provide a note in there. That was an excellent catch! I’m surprised this is the first time anyone had mentioned this in over 11 thousand views!
Honestly, it’s very subjective. My preference is the skeletonized Sig trigger but ultimately it’s “what you like”. However I would recommend you watch my video about how adjustable triggers remove ~50% of the internal safety of not tuned properly!
@@SIGMECHANICS how they are different ones and which one is better or are there any differences Sig Sauer P320 Sear Housing w/Safety Lever Cut has a stamped number 981 Sig Sauer P320 Sear Housing stamped number 2733
Oh, I see. The sear houses have changed, over time, but they are not going to make a difference. The standings you see on the different housing are only an internal reference to which supplier or batch was used (parts are not all made in the same places). Therefore the numbers don’t mean anything to the general public.
I adjusted per the manufacture specs (I called them for the walkthrough in order to make sure it was as close to how they recommend as possible). This was done for all adjustable triggers.
oh man. the results are not what I wanted to believe. Any chance youll do the same with the few available aftermarket internal kits, like facing the GG sear vs TSA sear, without any of the other parts that the kit includes.
I watched your video about all triggers for the sig p320. I didn't realize there were that many. I have a sig 320 compact, that I have modified with a threaded barrel, compensator, custom recoil springs, holographic sights, and rubber slide on grips. I do not carry it very often, it's mainly used for going to the range and home security. And of course, trying to outdo my big brother. Which trigger do you think would be the best for this scenario? Small info background, I have a lot of experience with very accurate rifles and standard handguns, military background. Just trying to cut to the chase so I don't have to buy a handful of triggers to find something I like. I do have a sensitive finger. Would love to know your feedback. Thank you for input in advance.
I think if you sometimes carry, and not exclusively use it for fun, you should stick to stock or non adjustable triggers. Curved and skeletonized factory are my favourites. If you want to tune, I found Keres (Centurion) to be really great, but if you want a bit of “best of both” I’d go with a Grayguns trigger, which can be tuned for over travel but will not do anything for take up. (Which is good for carry). Of course there’s no one “right” answer as it’s ultimately personal preference.
Hi. Great material. Fast question - is upgrade the oem skeletonized flat trigger in x5 legion to apex flat (without trigger bar upgrade) changes anything for better? Especially reset? Thx 🙏
Reset with the Apex would probably be better if you use the stop tube, however, if you installed the tube with the Sig skeletonized trigger you would also get an improvement, if you have both I would test to see which one works best for you.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thank U for your answer. One more question if U can help. Could U tell me a dimensions of this stop tube? In my country I can’t buy this set… maybe I can find wright tube (Alu or steel) elsewhere. Thank U so much.☺️
@krzysztofflorczak161 I don’t have that information on hand but I remember giving it in detail on my video about the “Secrets of the Apex Forward Set Trigger Bar”, you’ll find that dimension in there for sure,
Where did you get your internal animation? The reason I ask is that the sear face on the upgraded version isn’t that tall shown in your animation compared to the striker foot contact surface. It is however taller on the non upgraded one.
I made the parts based off the original factory components. The sizes are all exact 1:1 however it could be that the camera perspective makes it look bigger than it is.
Which combo would have the lowest peak force, fastest creep/brake and least over travel and least pretravel all together? Ie armory craft adjustable trigger with Apex trigger bar and changing out sear spring for a -20?
I’d have to test triggers with the various “kits” but I also plan on doing a follow up video with additional information that might answer your question.
That’s a very broad question, it would be your springs need replacing or simply it’s not your preferred geometry. Have you tried anything yet to find out why you think it feels spongy?
@@SIGMECHANICS I just bought the pistol. I have not shot it yet but compared to my Beretta 92FS and my Springfield X mod2 the triggers feel so different I do realize it’s a striker fire, but I didn’t think it was so different.
I know it’s not a definitive answer, but it all ends up coming down to preference. I personally like the stock triggers and use the skeletonized one on my P320s but each one had a pro and con comparatively. (Maybe with exception to the Dynamic Arms trigger, it felt truly awful and might have been engineered for pre-upgrade P320s).
@darknightbegins85 Robert and I are good friends, I even helped him re-design his armorers block V2! I have played with his designs and if you’re interested, he has a kit that basically contains all the parts (pre-finished by Robert) you need to get your gun to his specs, it’s a great way to get his trigger job without having to ship your gun to him.
I tried to use pictures that can help show you the defining characteristics, though there are LOTS of flat triggers, so it’s hard to tell without seeing them up clad sometimes.
I haven't watched the entire video to see all triggers tested. From what i can tell from the intro scene with all the triggers staged, i couldn't identify the trigger from keres dynamics llc which is dual adjustable. The triggers are hard to come by.
I have three Keres triggers in the video. Take a quick look at the video description and I’ve cataloged each on with time stamps so you can jump to whichever one you want to look at.
@@SIGMECHANICSmy apologies, you sir are extremely thorough. I'll definitely watch the entire video and the other content on your channel. You have a new subscriber.
So im new to sig I got a sig p320 carry and the trigger I hated it I like a real crisp candy cane break ,no creep I've always been a glock guy and not their stock triggers but upgrade apex so I put in the apex forward reset trigger straight I can feel less creep and little more break but I'm not impressed what is a good trigger to upgrade for sig p320 carry
While there’s no way to truly get a 1911 break on a striker fired pistol, there are modifications that can be done to the internals that can greatly increase the general feel. It would be difficult to describe it in text, but I will make a video showing those mods which can technically be done alongside any of the trigger choices you make. However, I just want to add that I would never advocate mods to a carry.
@@SIGMECHANICS thats what my 1911 is for or my glock 19 ,or g43 ,sig 365 list goes on for days ,it's just the sig p320 I bought is called carry version that's why I put that,what do you mean, never carry mods for carry I think you dais ?thanks for response love your videos man
Pew,pew pew Colin says the Opposite on mod's to carry but ,I quess it all matter if you trust your work all my glocks have upgraded triggers and in 10 year never have had a fail to fire ever I just want to know best trigger upgrade for the p320 or your opion on best trigger you seemed to ve very well educated in the sig very detailed as a Amateur gunsmith Smith even I have to pause and look up part of what your saying lol definitely got it down im not computer savy so if I misunderstood your question I apologize
Correct. However each one is unique depending on the geometric shape and positioning of certain key features. Most prominently the location of the pin that connects the trigger to the trigger bar.
It’s very hard to tell you one. As you can see the adjustable ones are “best”, but considering that they remove 50% of your striker safety, I would choose the stock skeletal trigger (personally).
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Knowing the time and effort into this video it’s probably one of the most informative videos on RUclips. Quality video brother truly the Sig Mechanic
No Scott, thank you! I wouldn’t have been able to do this project without you.
Would love to see your data on an excel file in a public facing Google drive so it's easier to compare the data
Ditto
I made a sheet yesterday along with a bar chart displaying the results, I Did not use all the data points, just distance to break, reset and peak force.
Maybe @SIGMECHANICS will say that I am not using all of the correct data points to select a trigger and I need to include another data point!
@nemmayol that’s great! Is it available anywhere?
@@nemmayol you going to share with the rest of us?
@@nemmayolYou gonna share dawg?! lol
The time, thought and attention to detail you put into this is amazing. Thank you!!
Thank you! This video took a year to make, I’ve been acquiring triggers for this since the channel started. I’ve always wanted to make this video, I’m glad it’s finally out!
You did a very complete analysis of the P320 trigger. I think you need another video explaining how these stats affect the shooter. There is a very large amount of data and many just don't understand how it effect them. Again fantastic job!
Agreed! I did start to include something like this in that video but it got a bit too long so I cut it out. I’m right there with you though, I feel that I should do an update video purely for that.
Thanks!
This is phenomenal. The first time someone quantified how the triggers behave. This is a great class for engineering! Thanks for all your curiosity and effort!
Thank you!
Where has this been my whole Sig life?!?! Great 3-D animations!
Well, I’ve only just been around for a little over a year, but if you stick with me I promise things we’ll only get better!
Came here from reddit. The data provided here is legendary! Definitely saving this video for future reference.
Great to have you!
Love this! The amount of work you've done here is incredible and very much appreciated. You've got a subscriber in me!
Glad to have to here! And thank you for the kind words.
This was very impressive. Thank you for all that you do for the Sig community.
Thank you, it’s truly my pleasure.
I’m loving this channel. Can you do some more coverage on the P365?
I actually just finished the 3D model for the 365 today! Videos incoming.
@@SIGMECHANICS yasssssss
@@SIGMECHANICS I’ve been waiting so long for this!!!
Yes YOU ARE the "SIG MECHANIC" well-done, very professionally done and absolute info needed that we'll get nowhere else but from you. Thank you and Kudos!
Thank you! That video took a year to make but I am so happy to have it out for the community to use! Some interesting information coming out soon as well inspired by this video (for better or worse) it’s going to help this community understand their guns better.
@@SIGMECHANICS ...Again, thank you sir, for sharing your hard work!
Holy crap your attention to detail is freaking amazing! The way you explain and describe things is top-notch, man! There is no way a video like this should be free. I can't imagine the time and money invested just to make this piece of art! I'll go ahead and say it for all of us, THANK YOU! Seriously, I hope you get 10 million subs and become super successful. Your love of sig and passion of firearms is evident just in how you speak in your videos. Thank you again! There is so much amazing information in this video alone. I'm about to dive into your catalog of videos. I just got a 320 and want a tune-up. I trust any products you recommend.
Wow! Thank you very much for your kind words. I really enjoy doing this work and I hope as time goes on I can focus more on this channel so I can post more consistently. I have so many ideas but not so much time!
I think you’ll like the stuff I’m currently working on now too, stay tuned! Thanks again!!
Wow! My guy really put in the work for all of us on this one
It took a whole year to get all the triggers but I’m glad I finally got to test them all for you!
Fantastic job. I was however waiting for a grand prize winner at the end, even though I understand there is no such thing because it's subjective, but it's still fun none-the-less.
I know. I generally try to keep the channel strictly to the facts and avoid making it a competitive thing, people like what they like and I want to foster a positive community “vibe”.
However, many people have asked me to put something together similar to what you’re asking, and I feel like it is a fantastic idea, as it only promotes the facts in the video. So keep an eye out I will put something out soon!
This is great stuff. Really appreciate all the work and effort put into this!
Much appreciated! Thanks.
Your unbiased review is the most neutral I have ever seen bro. ❤ I love you
Thank you!
Please do a video on your polishing methods, your parts came out incredible!
I will!
Thank you so much for making this video. I was so on the fence about all the triggers i was looking at and now i know which one i want to buy. Thanks for the effort. You probably saved me a few hundred in needing to swap out triggers lol
Glad I could help! I felt the same way before, with so many options out there and more on the way!
absolutely perfect ive been holding off buying since i simply didnt know what information to look for
Fantastic technical deep dive! Your time and effort is greatly appreciated!
Thank you!
I don't own a 320 but I found this presentation absolutely fascinating. I'll probably refer back to it in the future.
Great content.
Wow, that’s very nice of you to say! Thank you. Once you get your P320, if you ever have any questions feel free to message me.
The 3D model is freaking amazing! It really helped somebody like me that thinks and pictures and sees things in their mind mechanically. It'd be cool if there was a place on your website to go and play around with it. Thanks for all your hard work
That’s an awesome idea. I’ll see if there’s a way to do something like that on the Sig Mechanics website.
Such a thorough and amazing video. Very objective presentation of data. Thank you. 👏
Thank you! Thanks for watching!!
WOW!! Incredible video. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this to help us all out.
Thank you!
I LOVE DATA AND MODELING DATA! Very satisfying video, TY.
Thanks again!
Great Video with great data! It would be interesting to see once you include the complete kits (ie Apex, Grey Guns, Sig Armorer and any others).
I do love the videos and the grat content!
Thanks! I’ll see what I can do.
this video is so great and detailed
Thanks!
My man. Wow. You did a fantastic job and quick too. A little too quick lol. Thx for sharing your knowledge
Thanks for putting in the time for putting all this together
Thanks for watching!
@SIGMECHANICS I just bought an x carry but do not want to spend half of what the gun is worth, what do u recommend?
Another great video! Excellent precision/detail once again. Keep up the superb work!
Thank you!
Amazing job.
Would love to see a similar video conducted including the use of the Apex trigger bar.
As I've read the Apex trigger bar increases the pull weight, with some models, but is overall designed to reduce travel distance.
Yes, that is correct. I will try to test all of the trigger assemblies over time.
Just WOW... lot's of data here. Thank you
Thank YOU for watching!
Wow! Very informative! One of the best, if not the best, video pertaining triggers. You've just made a subscriber! Thank you!
Thanks! Glad to have you here!!
It's pricey but tough to beat that TSA trigger kit. I get pretty close results with AC spring tuning, apex trigger bar, gray guns adjustable trigger, and some DIY sear adjustments and polishing. Thanks to your DIY competition trigger video!
So much information cram packed into an excellent video. I love this stuff. Now I feel compelled to try a handful of triggers for my 320build
Well, I would need to figure out how to do it but, I’m thinking I need to do some trigger giveaways soon because I have way too many triggers!
this helps me a lot every time thank you!
I'm so glad to hear it!
Thank you for testing trigger of sig
It makes me to decision for buying a trigger
I’m glad I could help!
This is a phenomenal video! I would love to see which triggers are compatible with the Apex Trigger Bar, and the trigger bar's effects shown through the tester.
Great video, thanks for all the info. This had to took you a long time to make this video, constantly changing out the trigger shoe.
It took about a year to gather all the triggers and a few more weeks to test them all and document the output. I did it because I saw how many people kept asking the question “how does X trigger perform”, and I wanted to give the community the ultimate guide!
Thanks for watching!!
Awesome video. Just ordered and empire to try out. Also ordered reduced power sear springs and increased trigger return spring. Can wait to try it out.
Thanks
An amazing effort! Thank you.
Hey John, good to hear from you again. Thanks! This was my hardest video to make as it actually took a little over a year to obtain every trigger (those discontinued ones are a pain to find). Now that the video is up and I’m getting such great responses, it all feels worth it.
@@SIGMECHANICS I can only imagine what a task it was to acquire all those triggers.
@John Stewart 👈🏼This guy👌🏼
Remarkable. I was just looking at getting a new trigger today
Crazy to see the different break-angles. Have heard it's different on different P320 triggers, but never expected some of them to be so far outside the range of others. Some break around 90 and some break far beyond that (give or take)... and some even appear to start at about 90 (or even beyond that). Just never noticed that before not having really ever seen them being compared. Have probably see videos with all of them, but just never together (or in this way).
The Dynamic Arms triggers had a break so far back that without a mag inserted, one of them wouldn’t even break! It was interesting to see them all.
Would of liked to see the apex full kit thrown in there for fun to see how much the bar and accessories change up the stats, thx for the vid anyways
I know, I need to get that tested, it’s such a common question! Thanks.
Love this analysis!
Thank you!
That was fascinating!
My favorite measurement of a trigger is RESET. It is my understanding that the distance to reset and overall travel distance is the most important to rapid shooting.
Your videos are the most informative in a simple way on RUclips. I figured out the basic operation of the Sig FCU but your videos helped smooth out my ruff edges. If you don't mind a little creative criticism you might want to use a snap cap to prevent downward motion of the slide that contributes to creep. Just a suggestion.
I’m so glad to hear it. I really do strive to keep it simple but also balance that with bombarding you with data and information. It’s hard sometimes but seems to be working so far!
As for the snap cap, each test was done with 10 snap cap cartridges (in order to max out spring tension), therefore, what you are seeing is the natural movement of the sear/striker interacting like in all striker fired pistols.
@@SIGMECHANICS I did a demonstration for some of my club members at the range that said P 320s are prone to discharging with out pulling the trigger. I took my three P 320s in, one factory original, one slightly modified and one heavily modified. With the lower part of the slide cover cut off giving me access to the sear. I then chambered a primed case, no power or projectile. I then pushed down on the sear and released the striker. The primer didn't go off, there wasn't even a mark on the primer. I did this to all three guns proving the striker block did it job in each case and that the Sig Sauer P320 is safe. I'm going to make a video of it to quiet the less informed. But if you beat me to it that's fine with me. I know you can do a better job of it than me. Regards Gary
@@garymccausland1272 Thanks! I haven’t gone as far as putting in a primed cartridge in but I have tested this in other videos. Definitely put out a video if you can, this is important for the community and I think it will be appreciated.
Geeking out big time! 🤓
So much data, will there be a pdf available for reference? Thank you for these awesome videos!
I’ll work on something. Let me know if you have input on the method I should display the data in the reference chart.
@@SIGMECHANICS Great work, thanks. I'm by no means a stat guy but possibly a breakdown of trigger weight lowest to highest, travel least to most, etc., etc.
Yeah I realize 😁 it's a lot of work. Thanks again.
@@SIGMECHANICSI’d say an excel file, formatted as a table with headers, so that each viewer can sort the data as they wish. I’d be happy to help put it together! I’ll comment on the SigTalk thread 😉
Sure that sounds great.
Amazing video!
Thank you!
well done sir.
Well done!
Thank you!
I saw in another comment that you completed a model for the P365. That’s so exciting! I’d love to see a similar dataset for that model
Yes I did! I’m looking forward to working on the 365. I’ll start making a few simpler videos to start soon, then get into these larger projects.
I also like that you didn’t state good vs bad and only presented the data.
Thanks. I of course have my own opinions, but when it comes to the content I put out on the Sig Mechanics channel, I want it to be independent of my thoughts. I generally try to just share raw data.
Over time, i’m hoping this then can be the go to source for information on the various Sig guns because of this.
I picked one based on your past videos. My choice is in this video. I wouldn’t point out some of the data doesn’t reflect that some triggers can be tuned via adjusting set screws that dial in the pre/over travel. That is huge.
@@ErikS308 yeah, in this video I tuned to manufacture specs, but I could have tightened it more if I wasn’t trying to avoid tuning to my own settings. Also, most people don’t know this but you ARE affecting safety when using tu able triggers… video on that coming soon.
@@SIGMECHANICS Absolutely. Taking up pretravel will affect the drop safety as soon as you get into the sear block getting pushed up by the trigger movement. Plus there is no fudge factor in handling the weapon because you don't have the "prep the trigger" action that is taught by some instructors. Be careful.
Nice work !👍👍
Amazing content
Thanks! There’s actually a small update coming soon for this video. Stay tuned!
So basically Armory Craft wins again😂👌🔥 great video bud.
Depending on what your trying to get out of your FCU. There’s no doubt that adjustable triggers have the advantage. (If you’re not considering lock lever engagement).
@SIGMECHANICS absolutely, I was just kidding anyways but I put the AC adj on my Gucci flush comp build. Installed all the parts by my self thanks to you bro.
@@CycloneGunworks Ha! Of course! You know I try to keep it neutral, (but I too have my preferences on my builds). The AC is popular for a reason…it’s just simply a great trigger!
Can you do a video comparison between the trigger replacement alone and the trigger replacement with additional replacement parts? Like Apex trigger vs Apex trigger and kit?
I love this level of detail! Any chance you’d consider sharing this information in a shared Google sheet or similar?
Yes, I can do that. I’m just trying to think about what’s the best way to create the chart with everything on it.
@@SIGMECHANICS I think I love you
@@SIGMECHANICS I would honestly love if you just threw all the data in a sheet with each row being a different trigger. Then we can sort, filter, make charts, etc to our hearts’ content. Plus less work for you lol
@@SIGMECHANICS A poster above did it for us and put it on google.docs great chart too
One problem I have discovered with the 320 trigger weight is that there is no consistency in trigger pull weight. I have examined over a dozen 320’s (pre and post upgrade) I found that there was a variation from 4.4 to 8.5 pounds. Also, owners of 320’s need to be careful choosing kydex holsters since different trigger designs can cause a conflict with the groove of the trigger used in the mold to make the holster. If a straight trigger is put into a curved trigger molded holster, it can cause trigger movement disengaging the internal safety lock tab as if only needs about 1.35 mm of travel for it to disengage. I would like to see you take 10 stock identical 320’s and use this machine to see what consistency you get.
You could have a channel just for documenting manufactures triggers. I would like to see the P320's competition, such as Rival S and Q5.
Good work
Thanks!
Great channel. Port your channel to Rumble also because RUclips is going to notice your feed and shut the technical data off. They will scream “construction” and give you strikes.
You are not the first to warn me about this, and I have looked into it. Just need to get it done in order to protect the future of this channel.
Would be nice to have a list of lightest pull, shortest distance traveled, etc. Maybe a top 5 of each in a pinned comment to compare more easily?
I have been putting something together to share with the community. Thanks for watching!
Would love to see the comparison between gray guns and Apex with all the other components installed
Agreed.
Incredible work Sir! You are creating high value… Any chance you can test full tricker kit systems for those companies that provide them?
I haven’t heard of a trucker kit, can you send me a link? Also, yes, I have considered this for other parts kits.
@@SIGMECHANICS lol a little miss spell full “trigger” kit systems.
Excellent analysis 👍👍
BUT consider
Lubrication
The type of lubricant
VS dry, dirty condition.
Temperature?
I would absolutely LOVE to see an excel sheet with this data / a better way to compare this amazing but diverse data! It would greatly greatly help to decide which I want! Secondly I would absolutely absolutely love a video on the apex trigger kit! No just how it works mechanically, but the proformance you get from it. I can't find anyone that isn't just showing it off but actually showing it pros and cons! Especially compared to a stock trigger and a few other respectable trigger jobs! I want it but I can't find any ACTUAL reviews!
I wish I had the time to put more content out there! I do intend to re-visit this (hopefully this year) to make an excel for you guys!
@@SIGMECHANICS would absolutely absolutely love that!
could you do a best-tune trigger video
I love you thank you 😊
I’d love to see how a trigger changes with round count
Yes, 500,1000 and 5000 would be interesting
Amazing video that must have taken a lot of work and time. Before I watched it I was thinking to buy a trigger from agency arms for a better sense of safety. But now I'm wondering if it's worth it.
It took just over a year to get this video out there. I’m looking to do a follow up as well to break this info down further.
I own two p320s and was considering doing the same, but like you, think it may be unnecessary.
This information is nurotic in nature! I love it you are crazy! It's awesome....👍💯
Not sure what to say to that… I guess I’ll just lean into my insanity and make more videos.
Thanks!
@@SIGMECHANICS Exactly... I meant that as a compliment... I apologize I truly meant that as praise thinking of all the time and preparation it took and man hours involved!
@@hopewilliams6705 lol, I know what you meant. I was trying to be funny too, but it’s hard to convey tone on text.
This video really was the hardest one to make yet…took a whole year!
@@SIGMECHANICS I understand it did make me laugh I was just clarifying because some people don't get my dark humor
Not sure if I missed it, but is there a spreadsheet/list that lines them up or lists them from best to worst in their respective attributes?
No, but I can do that. I just wouldn’t know where to share it.
@@SIGMECHANICS Maybe as an imgur link/album, then adding as a link in the description, and pinning a comment mentioning additional info.?
@@SIGMECHANICS Either a “Part 2” video breaking it down, or even as a page with images/downloadable pdf files? I do apologize if I added more work. 😓
@@SIGMECHANICS I vote Google Sheets. Then we can sort the data ourselves, but you can keep it up to date and lock us from making changes
This might be an area you dont want to touch, because you dont want to be seen as saying parts are safe to use together, but id love to see info that on parts compatability. Like using the grayguns trigger and sear, with the apex bar and /or sig armorer parts.
I did want to do something like that, but the logistics of trying to pair so many combinations makes it unlikely. I might have to do something where I will test specific combinations or parts per subscriber requests just for fun on the side.
@SIGMECHANICS I try to avoid posting the drama and rivalries and things manufacturers have posted , but I specifically have thought about using the Grayguns trigger and sear, with the striker and trigger bar from The Sig Armorer. I'd love to see the safety values and benefits of such a choice because the Grayguns sear is a superior material and its been said that the 17-4 is not a prime material for a sear.
It seems like a very niche choice, but such a video would be a premium choice when trying to benefit the pitfalls of mixing manufacturers because it seems like an extreme case.
The sig armorer doesn't list it, but they will sell individual parts.
First of what an incredible video. Thank you so much for all that effort! I was wondering if there was any chance you might know or could test to find out how much a trigger can weigh and still be drop safe? In other words, are you able to find out at what weight triggers fail drop test? Like the Empire Stiletto seems to be too heavy to pass drop safe unless you remove curved part, then again, I could be completely wrong and both could be safe.
Thank you! That’s an interesting thought, I assume the current design is the absolute max weight needed to guarantee fixing the problem, I wonder what the absolute minimum is! I’ll add it to my list of future video ideas!!
Can you share excel file with this results?
I will see about making one. Any suggestions for how the data should be shared/displayed?
Does the Agency Arms trigger shoe actually work and make the Sig p320 safer? Do you have a video testing Agency Arms claims?
It does work, the design is pretty good for the problem it’s trying to solve (which is for the market that likes to have the added degree of safety on the trigger).
The overall design however does not give it a great performance output however as you can see in the results.
@@SIGMECHANICS I'm not too interested in added performance, just another layer of safety since I have a model without a manual safety.
Dang, that's a ton of triggers!
I'm waiting/ Hoping someone can make something that gets rid of the "thunk" or "thud" feeling the p320 has when the trigger breaks. I wish it had more of a "Click" or "Snap" like the VP9
Is the skeletonized trigger tested in the video the same trigger on the Legion? If so, this test shows it’s much heavier than what most people report the trigger weight to be.
Yes it’s the exact same. The one in the video is from a custom works FCU, so the colour is different but the part is the same.
Thanks for the reply, do you have any idea why most report a 3-4lb pull weight?
I’m curious as to why the vertical axis skips around from 2 to 3lb increments. Does the device output the data this way automatically?
The only thing I could think of would be that almost all the tests that you see are done by human hands, using a handheld device, whereas in this video, everything was done mechanically with a computer with no input from a human. Meaning, the pulls are extremely consistent and there is no jerking motion. The direction of travel is the same throughout the entire trigger pull.
All that to say, there’s a likelihood that the trigger scan will output substantially more accurate results and the difference you are seeing is actually the real outputs.
I of course did not show this but I actually ran 3 tests for each trigger to assure the pulls were consistent all the way through. So what you see is truly what you are getting.
@@SIGMECHANICS I did a little research on Sigs website. They claim the skeletonized trigger provides a 30% reduction in pull weight vs the stock flat trigger. Yet your test seems to show the opposite effect. 4.8lbs for the regular flat triggers vs 6.1lbs for the skeleton version (the graph shows 5lbs but the results are reported at over 6lbs). Could this be an instal or calibration error in your testing? I have a legion and although I don’t have any equipment to test things and can definitely feel a reduction in trigger pull weight vs the other sig triggers tested here.
Ah, thank you! That looks to be an error in the chart!! I looked at the graph and I can see it was closer to 5lbs (maybe just below that even), but it looks like that 6lb was brought forward from the trigger before it. I will have to see if I can fix that in the video or provide a note in there. That was an excellent catch! I’m surprised this is the first time anyone had mentioned this in over 11 thousand views!
But which is the best one
Honestly, it’s very subjective. My preference is the skeletonized Sig trigger but ultimately it’s “what you like”.
However I would recommend you watch my video about how adjustable triggers remove ~50% of the internal safety of not tuned properly!
Have you figured out how to make the “switch” that we hear in the news about with that Austrian gun? Asking for a friend.
Never heard of it…
stay tuned.
Could you do a video on difference on sear housing differences
Which sear houses would you like to know about?
@@SIGMECHANICS how they are different ones and which one is better or are there any differences
Sig Sauer P320 Sear Housing w/Safety Lever Cut has a stamped number 981
Sig Sauer P320 Sear Housing stamped number 2733
Oh, I see. The sear houses have changed, over time, but they are not going to make a difference. The standings you see on the different housing are only an internal reference to which supplier or batch was used (parts are not all made in the same places). Therefore the numbers don’t mean anything to the general public.
On the armory craft adjustable, was the trigger adjusted so you removed as much take up as possible?
I adjusted per the manufacture specs (I called them for the walkthrough in order to make sure it was as close to how they recommend as possible). This was done for all adjustable triggers.
Is there a spreadsheet with the numbers that can be shared?
I believe someone in the community has done that, but I haven’t released anything yet.
oh man. the results are not what I wanted to believe. Any chance youll do the same with the few available aftermarket internal kits, like facing the GG sear vs TSA sear, without any of the other parts that the kit includes.
Yes, I have considered the kits too. I just need to find them all.
I watched your video about all triggers for the sig p320. I didn't realize there were that many. I have a sig 320 compact, that I have modified with a threaded barrel, compensator, custom recoil springs, holographic sights, and rubber slide on grips. I do not carry it very often, it's mainly used for going to the range and home security. And of course, trying to outdo my big brother. Which trigger do you think would be the best for this scenario? Small info background, I have a lot of experience with very accurate rifles and standard handguns, military background. Just trying to cut to the chase so I don't have to buy a handful of triggers to find something I like. I do have a sensitive finger. Would love to know your feedback. Thank you for input in advance.
I think if you sometimes carry, and not exclusively use it for fun, you should stick to stock or non adjustable triggers. Curved and skeletonized factory are my favourites. If you want to tune, I found Keres (Centurion) to be really great, but if you want a bit of “best of both” I’d go with a Grayguns trigger, which can be tuned for over travel but will not do anything for take up. (Which is good for carry).
Of course there’s no one “right” answer as it’s ultimately personal preference.
@@SIGMECHANICS excellent information. I will do some research on the triggers you suggested.
Hi. Great material. Fast question - is upgrade the oem skeletonized flat trigger in x5 legion to apex flat (without trigger bar upgrade) changes anything for better? Especially reset? Thx 🙏
Reset with the Apex would probably be better if you use the stop tube, however, if you installed the tube with the Sig skeletonized trigger you would also get an improvement, if you have both I would test to see which one works best for you.
@@SIGMECHANICS Thank U for your answer. One more question if U can help. Could U tell me a dimensions of this stop tube? In my country I can’t buy this set… maybe I can find wright tube (Alu or steel) elsewhere. Thank U so much.☺️
@krzysztofflorczak161 I don’t have that information on hand but I remember giving it in detail on my video about the “Secrets of the Apex Forward Set Trigger Bar”, you’ll find that dimension in there for sure,
@@SIGMECHANICSThank U ❤
@@SIGMECHANICS sorry for my question, but i don’t know what purpose this spring from original set have? Can I use a longer tube without this spring?
Where did you get your internal animation? The reason I ask is that the sear face on the upgraded version isn’t that tall shown in your animation compared to the striker foot contact surface. It is however taller on the non upgraded one.
I made the parts based off the original factory components. The sizes are all exact 1:1 however it could be that the camera perspective makes it look bigger than it is.
Which combo would have the lowest peak force, fastest creep/brake and least over travel and least pretravel all together? Ie armory craft adjustable trigger with Apex trigger bar and changing out sear spring for a -20?
I’d have to test triggers with the various “kits” but I also plan on doing a follow up video with additional information that might answer your question.
Why does the sig m18 trigger feels spongy
That’s a very broad question, it would be your springs need replacing or simply it’s not your preferred geometry. Have you tried anything yet to find out why you think it feels spongy?
@@SIGMECHANICS I just bought the pistol. I have not shot it yet but compared to my Beretta 92FS and my Springfield X mod2 the triggers feel so different I do realize it’s a striker fire, but I didn’t think it was so different.
So what’s the best trigger?
I know it’s not a definitive answer, but it all ends up coming down to preference. I personally like the stock triggers and use the skeletonized one on my P320s but each one had a pro and con comparatively. (Maybe with exception to the Dynamic Arms trigger, it felt truly awful and might have been engineered for pre-upgrade P320s).
@@SIGMECHANICS have you ever had work done by Robert Burke on these? I hear great things.
@darknightbegins85 Robert and I are good friends, I even helped him re-design his armorers block V2! I have played with his designs and if you’re interested, he has a kit that basically contains all the parts (pre-finished by Robert) you need to get your gun to his specs, it’s a great way to get his trigger job without having to ship your gun to him.
I have a flat trigger how do u know what u have they all look the same
I tried to use pictures that can help show you the defining characteristics, though there are LOTS of flat triggers, so it’s hard to tell without seeing them up clad sometimes.
I haven't watched the entire video to see all triggers tested. From what i can tell from the intro scene with all the triggers staged, i couldn't identify the trigger from keres dynamics llc which is dual adjustable. The triggers are hard to come by.
I have three Keres triggers in the video. Take a quick look at the video description and I’ve cataloged each on with time stamps so you can jump to whichever one you want to look at.
@@SIGMECHANICSmy apologies, you sir are extremely thorough. I'll definitely watch the entire video and the other content on your channel. You have a new subscriber.
No worries! It’s a lot of information so I understand when things get buried. Thanks for subscribing, glad to have you in the community!
So im new to sig I got a sig p320 carry and the trigger I hated it I like a real crisp candy cane break ,no creep I've always been a glock guy and not their stock triggers but upgrade apex so I put in the apex forward reset trigger straight I can feel less creep and little more break but I'm not impressed what is a good trigger to upgrade for sig p320 carry
While there’s no way to truly get a 1911 break on a striker fired pistol, there are modifications that can be done to the internals that can greatly increase the general feel.
It would be difficult to describe it in text, but I will make a video showing those mods which can technically be done alongside any of the trigger choices you make.
However, I just want to add that I would never advocate mods to a carry.
@@SIGMECHANICS thats what my 1911 is for or my glock 19 ,or g43 ,sig 365 list goes on for days ,it's just the sig p320 I bought is called carry version that's why I put that,what do you mean, never carry mods for carry I think you dais ?thanks for response love your videos man
It's the 3.9 version barrel I originally had a medium modular frame went to a small much better fit for Me
Pew,pew pew Colin says the Opposite on mod's to carry but ,I quess it all matter if you trust your work all my glocks have upgraded triggers and in 10 year never have had a fail to fire ever I just want to know best trigger upgrade for the p320 or your opion on best trigger you seemed to ve very well educated in the sig very detailed as a Amateur gunsmith Smith even I have to pause and look up part of what your saying lol definitely got it down im not computer savy so if I misunderstood your question I apologize
Oh I see. I thought you were using it as a EDC. I understand now.
I don’t understand how just the trigger shoe will make much of a difference,this is just a test of each trigger shoe..
Correct. However each one is unique depending on the geometric shape and positioning of certain key features. Most prominently the location of the pin that connects the trigger to the trigger bar.
I just need to know what’s the best trigger.
It’s very hard to tell you one. As you can see the adjustable ones are “best”, but considering that they remove 50% of your striker safety, I would choose the stock skeletal trigger (personally).
@@SIGMECHANICS thank you!
AC