My wrists hurt when using standard keybaords so i first tried arisu and while it helped a bit, a proper split keyboard is much better if you actually need it to save your wrists from pain.
Just here to say that for any folks who're trying to get into true ergonomic. You can try sniping for a used corne or lily. I got my corne for around 85 SGD.
And for those that might feel putting together your own might be dawnting, an idiot like me put together a ferris sweep. Since the logic is all in the micro controllers, then most of the soldering is just the key switches.
I just got a Keychron Q8 with a matching wrist rest and I don't think I can go back from it. More "ergo" or not, who knows, but I find it more comfortable to use all day at work. Only took about 10 minutes to adjust to it.
Exactly what I was thinking. Man's designing his own board and then is hitting space with his finger while his thumbs (and pinkies) go unused hurts my soul. Everyone who is thinking about purchasing another keyboard: please go do some touch typing lessons, they will make transitioning to any board so much easier and more fun. The video was fun and interesting to see the different kind of designs choices though. I like the laid back format of the pair describing stuff too.
@@OP-pe4yc if that's the case then why does every typing thing that tells you anything about perfect typing tell you to use the left hand for b. It's what I use and don't use otherwise myself
Or you can stop typing like a spider and just lift your wrists with floating hands, I use 1 floating hand (my left) and still type quite quickly without having any wrist issues, because my wrists are free to move and tilt to adjust to keys. I have not really seen anything about this and I get no pain, I used to get pain and I just...stopped typing like a spider?- and my RSI dissipated after I lifted my wrists and I never even considered stuff like this since.
Yup, they missed the fact that posture and desk position are much more important than a fancy keyboard. They also missed the fact that the alice layout is not ergo.
hi there! ive got a legit qn. What do you guys map for arrow keys on the alice? Im planning on getting one but what are the usual keys used for arrows on a true alice layout? Thanks!
I use caps lock as a layer key and have hjkl set to arrows because i also use something called Vim for writing code. I do see a lot of layouts use a layer key with ijkl for arrows which looks more traditional
On one hand, this looks kinda nice. On the other, I'm weird and tend to hit the Y key with my left hand 50% of the time for some stupid reason. Not sure why I picked that up
I can relate! I also have a funny habit of using my right index finger to type the G key i dunno why 😂 So when i tried the Akko Alice Pro, i struggled with typing "G" (which is on the left side) lmao
I've been looking at alice boards for the past few days because of the release of the Feker Alice80. Really glad I stumbled upon your video because the SP star lucifer catches my eye due to being aluminum. The main difference I can see from the SP to Feker is obviously plastic to aluminum, layout is different, but the Feker Alice is also tented. Kind of torn between the two honestly.
People who hit b with their other hand need a second B. B is right in the middle because row stagger is flawed, you can really hit it with either hand.
Any one with some proper typing training will not need the left B key. For me, its just there never to be used. So I dont know why there is need for 2 B keys. Personally the largest discovery I found is the ability to type with kb on the lap laid back in the chair. Not only is it very comfy as opposed to the stiff straight back posture, I haven't lost any wpm speed. I like the Alice/Arisu layout. But I do get that it can be a YMMV thing
Alright everybody, say it with me: "Alice is not ergo" Why is alice/arisu not ergo? Glad you asked: 1. It's not split, still encouraging you to hunch your shoulders inward and leaving your wrists vulnerable to ulnar deviation 2. It keeps row stagger which is antiquated and unergonomic, our fingers curl in and out, not sideways. 3. Some, but not all of the pinky cluster is splayed, leading to inconsistent spacing, making weird contortions for key combos(like capitals, shortcuts, etc.) even worse, and imo causes ugly gaps and misalignments, not to mention the stupidity of relegating so many keys to our weakest fingers. 4. The layout fails to introduce any significant thumb clusters, wasting our strongest finger almost as much as a standard rectangle. 5. The layout still forces you to adapt your typing style, so it still has most of the learning curve of a real ergo board (which I recognize is one of the main drawbacks of this niche) but for little to no ergonomic benefit. Basically the alice/arisu/bent row stagger layout has minimal, if any ergonomic benefit and still requires you to relearn how to type. If you are after an ergonomic typing solution, don't choose it. A proper split is not hard to learn and has much more ergonomic benefits. If you want to keep row stagger, get something like a dygma raise. If you want a better equivalent of the arisu layout, look into the artreus layout or the boardrun. Or best of all, get an (actually) split, column stagger ergonomic board with proper thumb clusters like a kinesis advantage, ZSA Moonlander, Iris, Kyria, Corne or any of the 100s of designs out there, most of which are open source. (Rant over) Just to be clear im not saying you are dumb for recommending that layout, I'm just pointing out that bent row stagger has some serious ergonomic compromises that someone outside of the ergo mechanical keyboard community may have not heard about.
He said it himself in the video "it's really hard to get used to". Yes the keys are still row staggered, but they are still in a different spot, you still have to retrain most of your normal muscle memory. A proper split is also takes time to get used to, but is way better ergonomically for not that much more effort.
@@rev_dude learning curve depends on person to person, I was up to 90% of my regular typing speed on my first time touching an alice layout, basically 100% comfortable within the first day.
@Rev_dude Thanks so much for sharing this! I've been considering the Alice layout for a while but couldn't find a good reason to own one other than it being "ergonomic" lmao. Now i understand the layout slightly better with your detailed explanation - really appreciate it!
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My wrists hurt when using standard keybaords so i first tried arisu and while it helped a bit, a proper split keyboard is much better if you actually need it to save your wrists from pain.
This. ☝️
The alice layout makes one ergonomic change, ignores the rest, and makes some things worse.
Just here to say that for any folks who're trying to get into true ergonomic. You can try sniping for a used corne or lily. I got my corne for around 85 SGD.
And for those that might feel putting together your own might be dawnting, an idiot like me put together a ferris sweep. Since the logic is all in the micro controllers, then most of the soldering is just the key switches.
I just got a Keychron Q8 with a matching wrist rest and I don't think I can go back from it.
More "ergo" or not, who knows, but I find it more comfortable to use all day at work. Only took about 10 minutes to adjust to it.
Iris: Am I a joke to you?
Bruh
alice is love
2 B's are not needed. Proper typing is using the left hand for the b and right hand for y. Keep the b on the proper typing side
There are occasions where using right hand for b and left hand for y can be better so it's okay to use either one depending on the situation.
If B not for two side, why be perfectly middle ? Hmmm ? /j
Exactly what I was thinking. Man's designing his own board and then is hitting space with his finger while his thumbs (and pinkies) go unused hurts my soul. Everyone who is thinking about purchasing another keyboard: please go do some touch typing lessons, they will make transitioning to any board so much easier and more fun. The video was fun and interesting to see the different kind of designs choices though. I like the laid back format of the pair describing stuff too.
@@OP-pe4yc if that's the case then why does every typing thing that tells you anything about perfect typing tell you to use the left hand for b. It's what I use and don't use otherwise myself
Tbh when I was trying the Akko ACR Pro Alice Plus, I kept feeling that I needed 2 'G's lmao
Jane and Alice are yuktsis ex's and 910 is his body count
Or you can stop typing like a spider and just lift your wrists with floating hands, I use 1 floating hand (my left) and still type quite quickly without having any wrist issues, because my wrists are free to move and tilt to adjust to keys.
I have not really seen anything about this and I get no pain, I used to get pain and I just...stopped typing like a spider?- and my RSI dissipated after I lifted my wrists and I never even considered stuff like this since.
6:14 "Luficer" lol
Just get a table with proper keyboard tray, a chair with adjustable hand rest, beats any ergonomic keyboard.
Yup, they missed the fact that posture and desk position are much more important than a fancy keyboard. They also missed the fact that the alice layout is not ergo.
Alices in mechaland?
I'm first? Love ya boog
Ironically this will hurt my hand instead cuz I never learned how to type "properly"
hi there! ive got a legit qn. What do you guys map for arrow keys on the alice? Im planning on getting one but what are the usual keys used for arrows on a true alice layout? Thanks!
I use caps lock as a layer key and have hjkl set to arrows because i also use something called Vim for writing code.
I do see a lot of layouts use a layer key with ijkl for arrows which looks more traditional
I use FN and [;'/
On one hand, this looks kinda nice. On the other, I'm weird and tend to hit the Y key with my left hand 50% of the time for some stupid reason. Not sure why I picked that up
I can relate! I also have a funny habit of using my right index finger to type the G key i dunno why 😂 So when i tried the Akko Alice Pro, i struggled with typing "G" (which is on the left side) lmao
How in the world do you remap the keys on this thing? I can't get it to connect to VIA.
Sponsored by MAAA
Should've featured a Prime_Elise or a C-13X.
What do you think about Sp-star ? Do u recommended this board?
question where to you get the ribbon that connect both pcb layout?
Don't forget the Gothic70, it's one of the first budget Arisu with an extra B that I managed to get :)
really wish more of these alice style boards had the function row
The hollow Wings led me to the Maja V2 and damn am I glad I jumped on it. Love the layout and comfort of this style of board.
imagine if alice was watching this 😂
I've been looking at alice boards for the past few days because of the release of the Feker Alice80. Really glad I stumbled upon your video because the SP star lucifer catches my eye due to being aluminum. The main difference I can see from the SP to Feker is obviously plastic to aluminum, layout is different, but the Feker Alice is also tented. Kind of torn between the two honestly.
Is there any cheap alice build is possible? lets say if I bought my rk61 for 50 can I find alice or build for 70 80 dollar?
That will be difficult, I do not know of any sub-100 alice layout keyboards at the moment
The fancy Alice on AliExpress
I love the Arisu layout
eeeeeeeeeeeee
i found the alice layout very easy to get used to
also, 2 b's is a waste, nobody needs two b's
People who hit b with their other hand need a second B. B is right in the middle because row stagger is flawed, you can really hit it with either hand.
Any one with some proper typing training will not need the left B key. For me, its just there never to be used. So I dont know why there is need for 2 B keys. Personally the largest discovery I found is the ability to type with kb on the lap laid back in the chair. Not only is it very comfy as opposed to the stiff straight back posture, I haven't lost any wpm speed. I like the Alice/Arisu layout. But I do get that it can be a YMMV thing
Alright everybody, say it with me:
"Alice is not ergo"
Why is alice/arisu not ergo?
Glad you asked:
1. It's not split, still encouraging you to hunch your shoulders inward and leaving your wrists vulnerable to ulnar deviation
2. It keeps row stagger which is antiquated and unergonomic, our fingers curl in and out, not sideways.
3. Some, but not all of the pinky cluster is splayed, leading to inconsistent spacing, making weird contortions for key combos(like capitals, shortcuts, etc.) even worse, and imo causes ugly gaps and misalignments, not to mention the stupidity of relegating so many keys to our weakest fingers.
4. The layout fails to introduce any significant thumb clusters, wasting our strongest finger almost as much as a standard rectangle.
5. The layout still forces you to adapt your typing style, so it still has most of the learning curve of a real ergo board (which I recognize is one of the main drawbacks of this niche) but for little to no ergonomic benefit.
Basically the alice/arisu/bent row stagger layout has minimal, if any ergonomic benefit and still requires you to relearn how to type.
If you are after an ergonomic typing solution, don't choose it. A proper split is not hard to learn and has much more ergonomic benefits. If you want to keep row stagger, get something like a dygma raise. If you want a better equivalent of the arisu layout, look into the artreus layout or the boardrun. Or best of all, get an (actually) split, column stagger ergonomic board with proper thumb clusters like a kinesis advantage, ZSA Moonlander, Iris, Kyria, Corne or any of the 100s of designs out there, most of which are open source.
(Rant over)
Just to be clear im not saying you are dumb for recommending that layout, I'm just pointing out that bent row stagger has some serious ergonomic compromises that someone outside of the ergo mechanical keyboard community may have not heard about.
I mean, conversely, you don't have to completely relearn how to type from a more conventional layout as well, it's probably the easiest compromise
He said it himself in the video "it's really hard to get used to". Yes the keys are still row staggered, but they are still in a different spot, you still have to retrain most of your normal muscle memory.
A proper split is also takes time to get used to, but is way better ergonomically for not that much more effort.
@@rev_dude learning curve depends on person to person, I was up to 90% of my regular typing speed on my first time touching an alice layout, basically 100% comfortable within the first day.
Then you'd probably have no trouble adapting to a split
@Rev_dude Thanks so much for sharing this! I've been considering the Alice layout for a while but couldn't find a good reason to own one other than it being "ergonomic" lmao. Now i understand the layout slightly better with your detailed explanation - really appreciate it!
THAT. IS. NOT. A. SPLIT. It is not severed. Most of those are just alices.
microsoft sculpt, done