11’s are actually one of the most beautiful chords in my eyes…or rather, ears. the 11 as an “avoid note” has robbed us of a lot beautiful sounds. the minor 9 rub is a big part of what makes blues and gospel so powerful. voicing and context are everything. thank you for the great video!
I agree with this! I don't hear the 11th chord as being very dissonant or confusing to my ears personally, but I can also see why others might hear it that way, especially if it intuitively feels "wrong" going by how they've been taught.
When people say 11 chord in a dominant, they really mean a 9sus4. The 9sus4 functions as a dominant chord with out needing the tritone and still resolves.
I have multiple favorites, for example a major chord that goes to the same chord but minor. Sus4 into the resolution. 6th chords are one of my favourite. 😍
Maybe it's because if you don't know what you're doing it can turn into the grimiest dissonance ever. But you're right, it's all over the place in blues and gospel and jazz as well. I was just listening too Lee Morgan's Sidewinder and he uses it all over the place in his solo. He does treat it as a passing tone I think, but he states it pretty heavily.
I was lecturing with great South African pianist Neil Gonsalves who had just worked with the incredible Bheki Mseluko. He said that we we all know that you can't play the 3rd and 11th in the same chord, but that Bheki made it work. I was intrigued and tried to find a suitable guitar voicing. Eventually, I stumbled on putting the 3rd above the 11th, thus avoiding the b9. Instant gratification.
I had the good fortune to see Bheki Mseluko live in San Francisco. This must have been either in the late 1980's or early 1990's. If memory serves, he played piano with a sax on his lap, occasionally he would pick up the sax and play it one handed (right hand) while still playing piano with his left hand.
Aimee has been one of the greatest music teachers on the internet for over a decade. You can tell her patience, caring, and reverence towards music itself in just the tone of her voice. Sometimes I put her videos on just to hear her talk about music even though I know I won't understand certain things. Wish nothing but the best for her and her family.
Being a guitarist, I don't have the ability to play some voicings that are relatively easy on the piano. We guitar players often reduce voicings somewhat, and will often drop that major third from an 11th chord. A C11 would be reduced to maybe a Bb/C or a Gmi7/C. If I remember correctly, the guitar chords on the EW&F song are three note voicings: DbMa7 (Ab,C,F from the bottom up), Cb/Db (Gb, Cb, Eb), Gb6 (Gb, Bb, Eb) and Gbmi6 (Gb, Bbb, Eb). Guitar parts in R&B are quite often smaller voicings of three or four notes. I hope I didn't stray too far off topic here. Thanks for a thought provoking video!
Another guitarist like myself who likes piano teachings like these. I find it about which notes are just impossible or which can be inverted etc. You're certainly right on the topic as far as my thinking goes!
Nice video, important topic. I wanted to add, in the EWF song the context should not be overlooked. So, there is a pedal note on Db throughout the 4 bars, and the harmony is movement with good voice leading on top of the pedal. That makes it very strong and the dissonance that is being created is ok because it is in movement, it doesn’t only resolve well, but it comes from before in a way that makes sense melodically. In cases like this I think it is always ok, and the dissonances even add spice. If you look at the chord only locally to decide if it sounds good or bad you can miss that. I think.
Oh my gosh I wish I had you as my music teacher way back. When you ran iReal and vocalized the thought process of interpreting a sheet like that and covering a song, I felt so understood. I've often been at "What do I do with this 11, how come when I play it, it doesn't quite hit like in the song?" Not just at tackling the 11th chord, but the way you approach reading a chord sheet like that also demystifies the whole process. A lot of former students struggling with confidence (like me) often feel like they're doing something wrong when they struggle or take awhile to play a chord sheet like on iReal. But the listening out for a voicing that feels right to you on your instrument is supposed to be a joyful tinkering process when you're still getting the feel of it. And watching your video brings me back to moments like that where there was a lot of fun to be had in interpretation, and I could have better let myself have that fun if I wasn't always so critical of how long it took or how stumped I could get at a certain passage
Fantastic presentation. If someone gives me a chord sheet with a C11, I'm always gonna play the Bb/C because 9 times out of 10 that's what it is, and even if it is a true 11, then Bb/C will still sound right.
Everything Aimee suggest people 'typically' don't like (or their ears reject), I personally love. I've always LOVED the sound of suspension chords-- even before I knew what they were. Great video. Stumbled across this channel by chance late last night. Enjoying her approach in dissecting and analyzing particular musical scenarios. Love it!
Same here, Im very new to jazz so don’t understand a lot of what shes saying, but love this sound . I hate dissonance in modern “classical” music but these chords are so rich and almost haunting/ melancholy. I cant wait until I understand all of this better.
My approach with 11th chords is to simply omit the 3rd, which removes that "muddy" sound. So C11 becomes Gm7/c. That sounds nice and rich because the 5th is included, which it wouldn't be if you just played Bb/c. I suppose it depends what kind of texture you're trying to create. I adopted this approach from playing the organ, where the root is usually in the bass pedal, leaving the rest of the chord to be played by the left hand, while the right hand plays the melody on the other keyboard. I use the "top 3 or 4 most significant notes" of the chord. For example I play: C7 = (C) C E G Bb C9 = (C) E G Bb D C11=(C) G Bb D F C13=(C) Bb D F A It's an easy rule to follow and none of those voicings sound muddy. Obviously on piano you can spread the voicing between two hands.
I love your classes SO MUCH! And I don't even play the piano. I play bass and guitar, but I learned more functional harmony from you than any other teacher. Thank you!
Fantastic lesson!! I play mostly bluesy hard rock/metal guitar but a few years back, I helped out an R&B singer who desperately needed a guitarist for some upcoming shows. I had to learn many songs from Anita Baker, Jill Scott, Sade, and countless others and WOW ‐ I learned all about the 11 chord. I believe they call this the "gospel chord". Many of the songs didn't have distinguishable guitar parts, so the keyboard player and I had to split up the chord parts so we weren't playing on top of each other. As for deciding on a particular 11th chord voicing, I listened to what note both the singer and bass player were playing when the 11th chord appeared, and then decided the particular inversion of the 11th chord. Sometimes, voice leading in a high register worked well, other times a descending/ ascending bass line approach sounded better. It also depended on the voicing of the preceding chord. This lesson brought back alot of good memories from that particular era.
This is wonderful video on a most important issue in contemporary popular/jazz harmony. I always called it an Ab minor 11th over the Db. Cats like Maurice White, Larry Dunn, Herbie Hancock and so on are masters at placement and voicing and range to get great sounds. Thank you
Thank you, Aimee.This is a biggy for me on the guitar, what with the barre version being confusing.Naming. And it's in Easy , Harvest For The World , Stevie Wonder etc.
Ellington uses the full dominant 11 voicing every now and then. Usually with the 3rd in the trombones and then the 11th in the top trumpet voice. There is a great example here on RUclips; a 1962 filmed performance of V.I.P's Boogie and Jam with Sam. The third chord during Harry Carney's baritone intro is an F11 (though it sounds almost like an F#11, due to tape speed issues making the recording a bit high in pitch). Another example is in the original 1940 recording of Cotton Tail, which has a very crunchy C11 brass hit in the bridge of the last chorus of Ben Websters solo. These are the ones I can recall at the moment, but there are many more!
Oh, and there is a really heavy one in the vocal version of Take the A Train on Ellington Uptown. At 4:52, for two whole bars, we have a big orchestral D11 behind Gonsalves' tenor solo. Actually, I think this one may even have the 13 somewhere in there. A bit reminiscent of some of the voicings on The Far East Suite.
The first time I realized that certain chords could be renamed via inversion or be renamed, was when I discovered that Am7 is an inversion of C6 (and vice versa). Then, I saw that Dm6 was also B half dim. The next chord I saw was the third chord that occurs in The Long and Winding Road. I had a book and it was written as Bb9sus4. That has Bb, Eb, F, Ab, C. But if you look at it, it's pretty easy to recognize that if you visually switch the Eb and F notes, that it's the same chord as Fm7/Bb. Then, instead of looking at stacking complete chords, I started looking at series (plural) of chord tones and extensions, especially ones that have a tritone or maj 7 interval in them. For instance, take E, Bb, D#. Those could be the 3rd, b7, and #9 of C or C7#9. But put them over F#, and they become b7, 3rd, and 13th. So it makes that chord a 13th, which is also good for substitution chords. And then, there are the little tricks one can do with only the bass like turning any m6 chord into a 9 chord by just adding the 4th scale degree in the bass. For instance, Fm6/Bb in the bass becomes Bb9. And not only do I find that a wonderful way to voice a 9th chord, but it also works as a substitute for the old IV to iv trick. A couple of songs where it sounds like it WANTS to be the iv6, but is the bVII9 are in the ending of Layla and in You are so Beautiful. Finally, I learned exactly what you said, that not all chords are literal and that there is usually a little wiggle room for interpretation through voicing and note choice, especially when it comes to jazz and chords with many notes. The reason I say this is because I used to have issues with both the 11th chord as well as the b9 chord. Then someone told me that many 11ths were voiced without the 3rd unless the chord is minor. After learning about that, I figured out HOW the b9 worked and it really opened my mind to expanded functionality. Like, I finally saw that the b9 comes directly from the dominant of the (harmonic) minor. It basically gives you the major 3rd and b7 of the dominant, but adds the b9 to allude to the 9th in that scale..... which also alludes to a minor root of the key, especially when preceded by a half dim. Why? Because it's the diatonic iid V7b9 in harmonic minor. And then I understood its "place" much more. I'm only relating my experience to this because of your talking about C11. My journey was one of self-education in music theory. And this learning started around 5th grade and continued throughout my life (I'm 50 now). So there were some "unspoken" rules and methods about note choice, voicing, and function that I had to figure out completely on my own.
yep, the Am7 C6 inversion was my first introduction to renaming chords when I was trying to work out the progression of Tunnel of Love by Dire Straits, which sounds better with a C6 instead of just a C, as the sheet music would have it.
This chord shows up in a ton of late 60’s/ early 70’s soul / r&b compositions, esp the Philly sound. I’ve always just thought of it’s function as a harmonically advanced dominant chord. So glad to see it explained!
Wow, Aimee! I've never heard you sing in your lower register before. I honestly had goose-bumps rise on the back of my neck. That was pretty special. Also, great lesson. Thanks for sharing 🙂
The misconception about the 11 chord: The 11th note is a tension used (only) in minor 7 chords when the b3 is present , while the sus4 is a chord tone used in place of the major 3rd. It’s called “sus” because in its origin it was suspension- a delayed resolution into a major chord. C7(sus4) can be used in more forms like: C9(sus4), C13(sus4), as well as in series of hybrid chords such as: Bb/C, Gm7/C, Bb6/C or Bbmaj7/C. Very often the two get confused and when chords like C11 show up in a rhythm section part, they are clearly written by arrangers that don’t understand the difference. While minor 11 and sus 4 can often be voiced the same way, they are different chords, different functions and, in context sound different.
@@Pulse2AM If it was the same note, only played an octave above, there wouldn’t be a need for another label. For example: 13 is not labeled as 6 when 7 is present. #11 is is not labeled as b5 when 5 is present. The 11 is not labeled as 4 when b3 is present. BUT: 11 by itself has no reason to be labeled that way if it had the same notes as sus4. Now, check this out: Sometimes you may find Tension 10 an octave above a sus4 chord. Also: another chord that is heard a lot in recent Pop music is C(add4), which is major and sus4 combined.
Fantastic video! It’s all about the voicing and inversions of the 11 chord. So many possibilities. The less you leave to interpretation the better if you want a particular sound. If the 11 is lower and the major 3 is higher-it sounds fantastic-just as is so wonderfully stated in the video around the 7 minute mark. This is why it’s super important to listen to all kinds of music-just reading a chord symbol doesn’t necessarily give you all the info you need to replicate the particular sound the composer wanted.
First vid I've seen of yours and it made me instantly follow you. There were a few things that really drew me in. Your pacing is wonderful. It's consistent in the sense that you allow yourself to get into just enough depth to be engaging for me without meandering or elaborating on one point long enough for me to lose sense of where we are in the narrative of the video as a whole. This may sound strange, but I really like your attitude. I tend to perceive informational videos as if I (the viewer) am being directly spoken to by the host. I don't like speaking illy of others, especially those with good intentions, but many other youtube music theorists come off as very judgmental over how others apply the theory they discuss. I noticed when you thought something was incorrect, you said so- plainly but politely- and you showed what you thought the correct answer was without trying to over-assert your opinion. The end result was that I got the feeling of being talked to as a viewer instead of being criticized or corrected harshly. When I felt like I had a different taste or understanding on the harmonies in this video I was able to engage my own understandings without feeling frustrated, because your videos allow for differing interpretations.
I have been teaching some of my intermediate guitar students for the past few months, all about 11 chords, and comparing them to slash chords. I find them absolutely intriguing. For example, we've been working on "Midnight at the oasis", which uses B11 (A/B), C#11 (B/C#), G#11 (F#/G#) and A#11 (G#/A#) throughout the song. I really enjoyed this video, Aimee. I have the same reactions you do when I hear the perfect chords played together.
When they write Db 11 or C 11 etc, yes they want the sus chord typically played the maj chord or maj 7 chord a whole step below the root so Cb / Db (B / Db) or Bb / C. They are not typically referring to the upper chord extensions which typically get spelled out IE C7 b9 b13 or C7 #11 etc.
This is a really nice lesson. One of the best I've ever had. And just like that, I am a person who gets excited about Aimee Nolte releasing a video. 😂 I love the song choices, and your singing was so nice.
It’s a transient chord I think. Not one to stay on but to traverse for briefly. It signals a suspension at the same time as the tonic harmony is retained. Really interesting insight to take on!
Im wired like you. I got swooned by harmony before I was 10. 50 yrs and a million gigs later Im still learning. I recognize you as a fellow seeker. Awsome work!
Amy, you are correct about that chord. Didn't the real book have some similar "guesses" about the harmonization of standards and pop tunes? Keyboard players that I've known often are thinking in terms of triads over bass motion. When the bass player is present on stage or in the arrangement, it's a natural move to pull the key bass up & out of the bottom to the middle range. That seems obvious, and sounds correct for the example you chose. Spot on.
The 11 dissonance doesn't bother me at all. It just sounds like a V7 that wants to go home. Especially with the root as a pedal tone, the rub ain't bad on the EW&F tune. Your vocals sound really nice on Sweet Love btw!
As a rule for voice leading and arranging, you pretty much always need to put the 3rd above the 4th to avoid the m9. It works really well in the EWF tune because the odd note is in the melody. Having voicings with a m9 becomes nearly unusable when horns need to tune it. A major 7th is just a better dissonance when dealing with vertical harmony
Aimee thank you for addressing this topic - I find it confusing to read chord charts sometimes because the way we learned those chords in theory class is not the way they’re used in practice. I’m gonna sign up for Nebula so I can see the rest of your content on this subject and I’m sure I’m going to find a lot more to like once I’m there!
As soon as you played that chord I immediately sang “breathe, breathe in the air” From dark side of the moon but I thought that song was just an em7 I can’t remember Could be cool to voice lead that chord to something based on F or Dm or Bb triads
A lot of these extended chords, I think of them as 'stacked chords.' C major in the bottom & Bb major on top. Stacking chords is just another way of thinking about it. I find many of them when I tune my guitar in alternate tunings (that I've created). I usually work with chords first (chord patterns) & build melodies off of the chords. I think many songwriters work that way, as opposed to finding a melody first then figuring out what chords to play under it. When you work with alternate tunings & stacked chords, your melodies may enter certain dimensions that one wouldn't have necessarily have envisioned beforehand.
It all depends on personal taste, aesthetics and style. In the music I prefer and play, mostly based on jazz until the 70's, the only 11th chord that makes sense in part writing is the minor 11. This view comes form the excellent reference work about jazz harmony and composition that I use as a base and, most importantly, from using my ears. And also from classical tonal end key centered music theory. Almost always, when you see C11, they mean Csus4. Of course if you don't care about style and go for absolute freedom, one can make up some explanation or theory to justify any chord, even the most weird and dissonant one. But the one other most important thing that very very few understand, is where all those seemingly complex chords come from and what their function is. And that's not just about adding some colouring note here and there to a major or minor triad.
Interesting that some of these colorful harmonies can have different names that can convey slightly different sets of information. I might have personally avoided the ‘11’ nomenclature on some of these chords, but the music is so beautiful regardless and it was so well taught. Always appreciate you, Aimee.
The way an 11 chord functions is as a mixed cadence. It's a dominant/subdominant as though the next chord should be the tonic. it carries the sound of both a dominant 7th and a classic "Amen" cadence. (I like to call it the "Gospel chord".) What's important about the dominant in this usage is that it's represented in the bass as though it's a dominant seventh chord, but you actually have the subdominant as the predominant sound in the upper part of the chord. You can add the third and fifth, but you have to be careful about the timbre of the instrumentation because the conflict will show up in the harmonic series of both notes if the timbre is too similar. For example, I'll sometimes do an 11th chord and skip the third and fifth on the keyboard knowing that the guitar is likely to pick them up. So it's a bit simplistic to call it a dominant 11th, but if your band understands it within their genre they will play the right parts of the chord for their instrument and if some get left out, a bass on the dominant with a subdominant chord is sufficient to fulfill its purpose. So it's not the technical voicing of the chord that's important but the purpose implied by the notation of "11".
I think she answered it around the earth, wind and fire song. It's a melody passing. The idea of the suspension is that it keeps that annoying tension in our ear, but the tension releases once you pass it in the melody line.
Another example, for Yusuf fans, is "Sweet Scarlet" near the end of "Catch Bull At Four" by Cat Stevens, the second chord could be an 11th or it could be a slash chord.
Thanks for that brilliant explanation. These are the chords I grew up with and it's wonderful to see a teacher cover this. I also absolutely love that your piano has been tuned so beautifully.
great walk through as always but one thing I haven't heard or seen mentioned is that the origin of the most common voicing for an 11th chord comes from 17th century polyphony and JS Bach et al. You have typically 4 voices in choral music Bass, Tenor, Alto and Soprano so how do you spell an 11 chord with 4 voices? You throw away the notes you don't need, the 5th can go and as the Bass would ring the root the next three most important notes are the ones that give the flavour or colour of the chord which are the upper structure 7th 9th and 11th so this voicing ends up being (if we want to play a C11) C, Bb, D, F - this then also logically is a Bb/C which is where the confusion about 11, Sus4 or Slash chord comes from but essentially all are the same in origin as far as functional harmony goes. The function is as a dominant or secondary dominant, typically used as a V chord or as a new V when moving to a new key eg The EWF progression is a Db pedal with a typical sequence going from I to I7 to IV to IVm and instead of a straight I7 dominant an 11 is played. It's logical to assume a route from 17th century polyphony > Black American Gospel > Black American Pop music. Especially as so many melodies and their harmonisations use a hexatonic scale that omits the 7th but keeps the 4th and so resulting harmony through voice leading gives a chord ii or IV over V almost everytime this gives us that IV/V chord that is so ubiquitous in Black American pop music and all of it's genres and sub genres.
There's quite an interesting version of 'That's the way of the World' by Masayoshi Takanaka, only just found it.. It's a Semitone up! Been playing both tracks all evening. You've got a new subscriber, I resonate with your exploratory approach to Music. Best wishes to you... I'm new here.
That Minor 9th interval. They used to say that the tritone is the Devil's Interval. Not. It's the Minor 9th. Not only in Dominant 11th chords (my rule for which is: build up to the 11th and eliminate the 3rd), but also various inversions of the 13th, the min9th chord, the #9 chord and even the maj7th. If you voice a 13th where the 7th is higher than the 13th, the minor 9th problem arises; if you voice a minor 9th chord where the 3rd is higher than the 9th, the minor 9th interval shows up; if you voice a #9 chord where the 3rd is higher than the #9, it shows up again, and even the humble maj7th chord, if you voice the Root above the major 7th, again, the minor 9th interval shows up. The Lydian and Dorian Scales are the only two that can be built up in 3rds all the way to the 13th and the minor 9th interval doesn't show up. This is the reason why George Russel considered the Lydian Scale to be the primal scale. Interesting notion. To my mind, there are very, very few chords that can accommodate the minor 9th interval. The only one I can think of offhand is the 7b9 chord. Thanks for this video. I'm glad someone finally spoke up about this problem with the 11th chord.
F in the bass aligns with C and makes the chord nice. F on top is dissonant because it's brighter being higher up and it has an overtone series directly contradicting the other overtones of the chord notes. So it's a note with fundamental and overtones that we prefer to be in a more muddy range, intersecting with the rest of the overtones of the notes of the chord. IOW I believe the issue of the F being on top of the C11 is that the F is up in that high, more clearly heard, not at all muddy range. And so when you play it up there its overtones (which we may not be able to pick out) are in conflict with everything coming up under it - i.e they are in conflict with the overtones of the chord structure notes under it, that are in harmonic alignment with the chord root/s (not every chord has only one possible root and I haven't analyzed C11 in that regard but....) So IMHO our ear will experience that conflict, whereas if you place the F lower down this turns into a beautiful chord. I WOULD avoid using the interval of a m9 interval with the m9 tone on top, but I LOVE hearing chords that are full of intervals and so rich sounding. Absolutely beautiful!
In most cases I think of C11 as C7sus4, which then allows me to either go for the simple Bb/C or extend it to C13sus4 (eg in Sweet Love you can play: Ab13sus4). The actual C11 including the 3rd is as you say rare. Also, one key ingredient in That’s the way of the world is the inner voice movement C B Bb A, which makes the whole thing make a lot more sense.
I would play a B major triad over Db-Ab interval. In r n b this voicing is used all of the time. so you have flat 7 to 9th to 11th with conflict of the third because there is no third. Some people call it the Isley Chord because it is used in the beginning of "Work To Do" by the Isley Brothers and it can be voiced several ways. Sometimes it is voiced Db to B to Eb to G flat to Sb so the 5th it in the soprano.
Thanks for this, your usual generous work. Sharped 11th sounds GREAT over the major seventh/ninth (less so the flat seventh) because the augmented 4th above tonic relates to the dominant as a leading tone. You end up with piled major thirds separated by minor thirds. The unsharped subdominant belongs to a different sonic world from the tonic-dominant axis, however, and poses a voicing challenge, which you have explicated so well.
Especially if on the fly I will take that approach of playing the root and a major triad built on the 7th. it clears out the lower voicings and puts an emphasis on 7, 9, 11 which are usually the important harmonic functions when writing this chord.
Great video! Extremely insightful! It's funny I was just listening to That EWF song last night, on RUclips, which might be why this came up for me today! Either way, THANKS!!!
Thank you for this lesson. Finally, I get to understand the 11 chord-something that I often use but was clueless what it was! Brilliant! Thank you again🕺🏻
I'm an illiterate in these matters. I wish I had your understanding but I am a dabbler, at best. I know, and love, C11, from Wichita Lineman. For me, it thins out the voicing, makes it pale blue, like a prairie winter. The story is that Glen Campbell, in practicing for the session had come up with changes including the C11. Also played on baritone guitar for the session. I genuinely hear the difference between it and the sus, and I usually don't hear differences well enough to reliably tune a triangle. I just love that thinness. Also, the chord shape for an 11 is so simple in standard tuning on a guitar I'm not surprised it's all over the place.
Thanks again, Aimee. I know some arrangers who were students of Gordon Delamont, and they used C11 instead of Csus in their charts as kind of a pedagogical requirement. I totally agree that Csus, a.k.a. Bb/C, is the chord you want to play and hear, but you can add the E if you want to sound super hip. Fun fact: it's an open question as to whether Carole King or Brian Wilson were the first to introduce the sus chord into rock.
Great video. I love cords! Must admit being a guitarist I tend to think of Bb11 and Ab/ Bb as the same thing but now I know they're not. Having said that, I always play them as slash chords it seems to work out OK. That 3rd when lower down as in the EWF song is great though. Sorry but think I'm going to have to rip off those 11 chords a minor 3rd apart 😂. Love your content, keep up the good work. Thanks.
Aimee says "I know what my next songs going to be" --- I have those moments every once in a while too, playing around with chord progressions and suddenly you think wow that sounds good. I'm never able to make a song out of it, but am waiting for yours !!!
I love your videos. I’m not at the keys right now but I can guarantee the voicing is a complete normal gospel / soul chord, and lots of certain players use the same voicing. I’m going to check it later if I’m right is there a way I can send it you, I’ve been playing this music most of my life it’s about patterns not voicing or theory, just progressions based on patterns and using your ears. I was shown it once and it changed my whole life with music. You hit on the pattern thing in the Anita baker song. And loved them.
I would always notate "true" 11th chords as "add11" chords to make sure that both the 3rd and the 11th are supposed to be there (so, Db9add11 in the first example). Or you could also notate it as another kind of a slash chord, for example Cbadd#11/Db. That also gives more information on how it should be voiced. Or at least it informs your thinking in some way. When we see upper extensions like 11 or 13 or whatever, it's easy to assume they should be on top. This is why Cbadd#11/Db intuitively makes you voice it in a different way than Db11, because you usually place the #11 above the 5th, but in this case, the #11 of Cb is actually the 3rd in relation to Db. So, I would argue that if the chord was simply notated as Cbadd#11/Db, you would naturally find the "correct" voicing without having to think much. You would naturally place the F over the Gb (because you would think "#11 usually goes above the 5th"). In Db11, you would have to think (is the 3rd even supposed to be there, and if it is, where do you place it). All in all, I think slash chords are underrated. They can sometimes be a really simple way of communicating chords that might look quite complex when notated in relation to the bass note. For example Cm7/D vs D7b9#5sus4. The latter may be more accurate functionally speaking (because it is in fact a D7 chord with suspensions), but the former is much simpler to read. Or G/C vs Cmaj9no5. Really common chord in modern pop music, and again, the latter is probably more accurate functionally speaking (it is in fact functioning as a C chord), but the former just instantly tells you what to play without having to think about how to voice it. You could even use it for something like Csus2/A vs Am11 (if "Csus2 over A" is the exact voicing you are after), even though Am11 is a completely fine chord symbol too. It naturally makes you voice it in a certain way.
I didn’t know IReal b had alternate fonts to choose from! I saw your overlay and then I looked to see what options the app had. Lol. Thanks for the chord lesson.
I have been fooling around and on my Hammond I think my favorite chord is the Eb7#9, my hand just lays on it perfectly. Any other #9 is a bit more of a stretch. I hit the root Eb on the left hand. It's the Blood Sweat & Tears intro chord to Spinning Wheel, except I think they do it as a D. Strange because you'd think the Eb would be easier for the horns, but perhaps not for Mr. Clayton-Thomas. That song has some deceptively high vocal notes.
I love these sounds and your channel. Music Theory talk is a grand topic amongst myself and my friends. Please continue producing your videos. The insights you’ve presented has made me ponder angles I haven’t considered previously. God Bless
I honestly hear that Db11 in EWaF as the Ab minor. Well, given all the notes you pointed out, perhaps an Abmin7 (add 13), but that lends to make sense of the next chord. It becomes the II of IV, which then turns to IV minor. That 11 chord viewed as a minor means you could just classify it as ALMOST a secondary dominant to the IV chord. Granted it's not a V, but I feel that the II can lead to the I almost just as well sometimes. Also going doing the ii V I of IV and then to iv minor is so common is so common, it's how I here that chord in this scenario.
I just discovered your channel... Wow, you're really amazing at explaining this stuff! Perfect pace, easy to follow, going more in depth right where it's interesting to do so, very calm but with such a passion - wonderful! I'm not really a piano player (although I learned it years back), but I'm very interested in music theory. I mostly play bass, and at the end of that video, you're saying that you collaborate with Adam!? I'll check that immediately!
A couple more examples: (a) First chord in "With a Little Luck" by Paul McCartney. (b) ii11 (ie, minor chord with m7, M9, & 11) is the second chord of Ravel's “Rigaudon,” from Le tombeau de Couperin; every chord member (DFACEG) is present.
That trick of voicing Db11 with the F a major 7th above the Gb follows a good general trick in voicing "problem" chords, to favor major seventh intervals. For example: Cmaj9(add Bb) - spread it out a bit and put the Bb a major 7th above the B.
11’s are actually one of the most beautiful chords in my eyes…or rather, ears. the 11 as an “avoid note” has robbed us of a lot beautiful sounds. the minor 9 rub is a big part of what makes blues and gospel so powerful. voicing and context are everything. thank you for the great video!
I agree with this! I don't hear the 11th chord as being very dissonant or confusing to my ears personally, but I can also see why others might hear it that way, especially if it intuitively feels "wrong" going by how they've been taught.
They are one?
When people say 11 chord in a dominant, they really mean a 9sus4. The 9sus4 functions as a dominant chord with out needing the tritone and still resolves.
I have multiple favorites, for example a major chord that goes to the same chord but minor. Sus4 into the resolution. 6th chords are one of my favourite. 😍
Maybe it's because if you don't know what you're doing it can turn into the grimiest dissonance ever. But you're right, it's all over the place in blues and gospel and jazz as well. I was just listening too Lee Morgan's Sidewinder and he uses it all over the place in his solo. He does treat it as a passing tone I think, but he states it pretty heavily.
I was lecturing with great South African pianist Neil Gonsalves who had just worked with the incredible Bheki Mseluko. He said that we we all know that you can't play the 3rd and 11th in the same chord, but that Bheki made it work. I was intrigued and tried to find a suitable guitar voicing. Eventually, I stumbled on putting the 3rd above the 11th, thus avoiding the b9. Instant gratification.
I had the good fortune to see Bheki Mseluko live in San Francisco. This must have been either in the late 1980's or early 1990's. If memory serves, he played piano with a sax on his lap, occasionally he would pick up the sax and play it one handed (right hand) while still playing piano with his left hand.
Aimee has been one of the greatest music teachers on the internet for over a decade. You can tell her patience, caring, and reverence towards music itself in just the tone of her voice. Sometimes I put her videos on just to hear her talk about music even though I know I won't understand certain things. Wish nothing but the best for her and her family.
Thank you
She doesn't fool me. Somewhere in a creepy, cobweb-filled attic, there is a portrait in oils that is doing her aging.
@@JiveDadson Would rather not comment on people's appearance but yes she does appear to be in good health.
And the cheque's in the post....
Being a guitarist, I don't have the ability to play some voicings that are relatively easy on the piano. We guitar players often reduce voicings somewhat, and will often drop that major third from an 11th chord. A C11 would be reduced to maybe a Bb/C or a Gmi7/C.
If I remember correctly, the guitar chords on the EW&F song are three note voicings: DbMa7 (Ab,C,F from the bottom up), Cb/Db (Gb, Cb, Eb), Gb6 (Gb, Bb, Eb) and Gbmi6 (Gb, Bbb, Eb). Guitar parts in R&B are quite often smaller voicings of three or four notes. I hope I didn't stray too far off topic here. Thanks for a thought provoking video!
Another guitarist like myself who likes piano teachings like these. I find it about which notes are just impossible or which can be inverted etc. You're certainly right on the topic as far as my thinking goes!
Nice video, important topic. I wanted to add, in the EWF song the context should not be overlooked. So, there is a pedal note on Db throughout the 4 bars, and the harmony is movement with good voice leading on top of the pedal. That makes it very strong and the dissonance that is being created is ok because it is in movement, it doesn’t only resolve well, but it comes from before in a way that makes sense melodically. In cases like this I think it is always ok, and the dissonances even add spice. If you look at the chord only locally to decide if it sounds good or bad you can miss that. I think.
Yes, exactly.
Fantastic insight.
Exactly this.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Oh my gosh I wish I had you as my music teacher way back. When you ran iReal and vocalized the thought process of interpreting a sheet like that and covering a song, I felt so understood.
I've often been at "What do I do with this 11, how come when I play it, it doesn't quite hit like in the song?"
Not just at tackling the 11th chord, but the way you approach reading a chord sheet like that also demystifies the whole process. A lot of former students struggling with confidence (like me) often feel like they're doing something wrong when they struggle or take awhile to play a chord sheet like on iReal. But the listening out for a voicing that feels right to you on your instrument is supposed to be a joyful tinkering process when you're still getting the feel of it. And watching your video brings me back to moments like that where there was a lot of fun to be had in interpretation, and I could have better let myself have that fun if I wasn't always so critical of how long it took or how stumped I could get at a certain passage
Such a nice comment. Thank you.
Thats a wonderful comment! I wish the same! 👏
Fantastic presentation. If someone gives me a chord sheet with a C11, I'm always gonna play the Bb/C because 9 times out of 10 that's what it is, and even if it is a true 11, then Bb/C will still sound right.
you are so right. thats the way we do it
Everything Aimee suggest people 'typically' don't like (or their ears reject), I personally love. I've always LOVED the sound of suspension chords-- even before I knew what they were. Great video. Stumbled across this channel by chance late last night. Enjoying her approach in dissecting and analyzing particular musical scenarios. Love it!
Same here, Im very new to jazz so don’t understand a lot of what shes saying, but love this sound . I hate dissonance in modern “classical” music but these chords are so rich and almost haunting/ melancholy. I cant wait until I understand all of this better.
@@Julia29853 Welcome to our neck-of-the-woods, Beth. Btw, I happen to like a splash of dissonance in Classical. Good luck on your new journey in Jazz.
My approach with 11th chords is to simply omit the 3rd, which removes that "muddy" sound. So C11 becomes Gm7/c. That sounds nice and rich because the 5th is included, which it wouldn't be if you just played Bb/c. I suppose it depends what kind of texture you're trying to create. I adopted this approach from playing the organ, where the root is usually in the bass pedal, leaving the rest of the chord to be played by the left hand, while the right hand plays the melody on the other keyboard. I use the "top 3 or 4 most significant notes" of the chord. For example I play:
C7 = (C) C E G Bb
C9 = (C) E G Bb D
C11=(C) G Bb D F
C13=(C) Bb D F A
It's an easy rule to follow and none of those voicings sound muddy. Obviously on piano you can spread the voicing between two hands.
I love your classes SO MUCH! And I don't even play the piano. I play bass and guitar, but I learned more functional harmony from you than any other teacher. Thank you!
I’m a bassist and I love watching piano theory videos. Always training the ear with complex harmony
Your comment makes me like you
(Edit- I’m a drummer, but pianist too)
After all, bass player puts in an A and she has to redo the whole video
Fantastic lesson!! I play mostly bluesy hard rock/metal guitar but a few years back, I helped out an R&B singer who desperately needed a guitarist for some upcoming shows. I had to learn many songs from Anita Baker, Jill Scott, Sade, and countless others and WOW ‐ I learned all about the 11 chord. I believe they call this the "gospel chord". Many of the songs didn't have distinguishable guitar parts, so the keyboard player and I had to split up the chord parts so we weren't playing on top of each other.
As for deciding on a particular 11th chord voicing, I listened to what note both the singer and bass player were playing when the 11th chord appeared, and then decided the particular inversion of the 11th chord. Sometimes, voice leading in a high register worked well, other times a descending/ ascending bass line approach sounded better. It also depended on the voicing of the preceding chord. This lesson brought back alot of good memories from that particular era.
This is wonderful video on a most important issue in contemporary popular/jazz harmony. I always called it an Ab minor 11th over the Db. Cats like Maurice White, Larry Dunn, Herbie Hancock and so on are masters at placement and voicing and range to get great sounds. Thank you
I instantly hear "Maiden Voyage", myself
Yeah the amateur music historian in me thinks that that album by Herbie might be as influential or as significant as Kind Of Blue. @@andymandiak603
Thank you, Aimee.This is a biggy for me on the guitar, what with the barre version being confusing.Naming.
And it's in Easy , Harvest For The World , Stevie Wonder etc.
Ellington uses the full dominant 11 voicing every now and then. Usually with the 3rd in the trombones and then the 11th in the top trumpet voice. There is a great example here on RUclips; a 1962 filmed performance of V.I.P's Boogie and Jam with Sam. The third chord during Harry Carney's baritone intro is an F11 (though it sounds almost like an F#11, due to tape speed issues making the recording a bit high in pitch). Another example is in the original 1940 recording of Cotton Tail, which has a very crunchy C11 brass hit in the bridge of the last chorus of Ben Websters solo.
These are the ones I can recall at the moment, but there are many more!
Oh, and there is a really heavy one in the vocal version of Take the A Train on Ellington Uptown. At 4:52, for two whole bars, we have a big orchestral D11 behind Gonsalves' tenor solo. Actually, I think this one may even have the 13 somewhere in there. A bit reminiscent of some of the voicings on The Far East Suite.
The first time I realized that certain chords could be renamed via inversion or be renamed, was when I discovered that Am7 is an inversion of C6 (and vice versa). Then, I saw that Dm6 was also B half dim. The next chord I saw was the third chord that occurs in The Long and Winding Road. I had a book and it was written as Bb9sus4. That has Bb, Eb, F, Ab, C. But if you look at it, it's pretty easy to recognize that if you visually switch the Eb and F notes, that it's the same chord as Fm7/Bb.
Then, instead of looking at stacking complete chords, I started looking at series (plural) of chord tones and extensions, especially ones that have a tritone or maj 7 interval in them. For instance, take E, Bb, D#. Those could be the 3rd, b7, and #9 of C or C7#9. But put them over F#, and they become b7, 3rd, and 13th. So it makes that chord a 13th, which is also good for substitution chords.
And then, there are the little tricks one can do with only the bass like turning any m6 chord into a 9 chord by just adding the 4th scale degree in the bass. For instance, Fm6/Bb in the bass becomes Bb9. And not only do I find that a wonderful way to voice a 9th chord, but it also works as a substitute for the old IV to iv trick. A couple of songs where it sounds like it WANTS to be the iv6, but is the bVII9 are in the ending of Layla and in You are so Beautiful.
Finally, I learned exactly what you said, that not all chords are literal and that there is usually a little wiggle room for interpretation through voicing and note choice, especially when it comes to jazz and chords with many notes. The reason I say this is because I used to have issues with both the 11th chord as well as the b9 chord. Then someone told me that many 11ths were voiced without the 3rd unless the chord is minor. After learning about that, I figured out HOW the b9 worked and it really opened my mind to expanded functionality. Like, I finally saw that the b9 comes directly from the dominant of the (harmonic) minor. It basically gives you the major 3rd and b7 of the dominant, but adds the b9 to allude to the 9th in that scale..... which also alludes to a minor root of the key, especially when preceded by a half dim. Why? Because it's the diatonic iid V7b9 in harmonic minor. And then I understood its "place" much more.
I'm only relating my experience to this because of your talking about C11. My journey was one of self-education in music theory. And this learning started around 5th grade and continued throughout my life (I'm 50 now). So there were some "unspoken" rules and methods about note choice, voicing, and function that I had to figure out completely on my own.
yep, the Am7 C6 inversion was my first introduction to renaming chords when I was trying to work out the progression of Tunnel of Love by Dire Straits, which sounds better with a C6 instead of just a C, as the sheet music would have it.
This chord shows up in a ton of late 60’s/ early 70’s soul / r&b compositions, esp the Philly sound. I’ve always just thought of it’s function as a harmonically advanced dominant chord.
So glad to see it explained!
Yep, that's why I just mentioned Burt Bacharach and his songs. Totally sounds like his harmonic signature.
Wow, Aimee! I've never heard you sing in your lower register before.
I honestly had goose-bumps rise on the back of my neck.
That was pretty special. Also, great lesson. Thanks for sharing 🙂
Lovely voice too.
Listen to her albums, Mate! So much to absorb.
The misconception about the 11 chord:
The 11th note is a tension used (only) in minor 7 chords when the b3 is present , while the sus4 is a chord tone used in place of the major 3rd. It’s called “sus” because in its origin it was suspension- a delayed resolution into a major chord.
C7(sus4) can be used in more forms like:
C9(sus4), C13(sus4), as well as in series of hybrid chords such as:
Bb/C, Gm7/C, Bb6/C or Bbmaj7/C.
Very often the two get confused and when chords like C11 show up in a rhythm section part, they are clearly written by arrangers that don’t understand the difference.
While minor 11 and sus 4 can often be voiced the same way, they are different chords, different functions and, in context sound different.
Can you explain to me this. Isn't the C11 just a sus 4 with the 4th played an octave higher? And if so why the distinction musically speaking?
@@Pulse2AM If it was the same note, only played an octave above, there wouldn’t be a need for another label.
For example:
13 is not labeled as 6 when 7 is present.
#11 is is not labeled as b5 when 5 is present.
The 11 is not labeled as 4 when b3 is present.
BUT: 11 by itself has no reason to be labeled that way if it had the same notes as sus4.
Now, check this out:
Sometimes you may find Tension 10 an octave above a sus4 chord.
Also: another chord that is heard a lot in recent Pop music is C(add4), which is major and sus4 combined.
Fantastic video! It’s all about the voicing and inversions of the 11 chord. So many possibilities. The less you leave to interpretation the better if you want a particular sound. If the 11 is lower and the major 3 is higher-it sounds fantastic-just as is so wonderfully stated in the video around the 7 minute mark. This is why it’s super important to listen to all kinds of music-just reading a chord symbol doesn’t necessarily give you all the info you need to replicate the particular sound the composer wanted.
I just love the 11 chords. They offer such great ways for progressing chords.
First vid I've seen of yours and it made me instantly follow you. There were a few things that really drew me in.
Your pacing is wonderful. It's consistent in the sense that you allow yourself to get into just enough depth to be engaging for me without meandering or elaborating on one point long enough for me to lose sense of where we are in the narrative of the video as a whole.
This may sound strange, but I really like your attitude. I tend to perceive informational videos as if I (the viewer) am being directly spoken to by the host. I don't like speaking illy of others, especially those with good intentions, but many other youtube music theorists come off as very judgmental over how others apply the theory they discuss. I noticed when you thought something was incorrect, you said so- plainly but politely- and you showed what you thought the correct answer was without trying to over-assert your opinion.
The end result was that I got the feeling of being talked to as a viewer instead of being criticized or corrected harshly. When I felt like I had a different taste or understanding on the harmonies in this video I was able to engage my own understandings without feeling frustrated, because your videos allow for differing interpretations.
Thx so much for that. Gave me a much-needed boost today!
I have been teaching some of my intermediate guitar students for the past few months, all about 11 chords, and comparing them to slash chords. I find them absolutely intriguing. For example, we've been working on "Midnight at the oasis", which uses B11 (A/B), C#11 (B/C#), G#11 (F#/G#) and A#11 (G#/A#) throughout the song. I really enjoyed this video, Aimee. I have the same reactions you do when I hear the perfect chords played together.
You made me really listen then explore. Great stuff.
When they write Db 11 or C 11 etc, yes they want the sus chord typically played the maj chord or maj 7 chord a whole step below the root so Cb / Db (B / Db) or Bb / C. They are not typically referring to the upper chord extensions which typically get spelled out IE C7 b9 b13 or C7 #11 etc.
Nice process, thanks Aimee.
This is a really nice lesson. One of the best I've ever had. And just like that, I am a person who gets excited about Aimee Nolte releasing a video. 😂
I love the song choices, and your singing was so nice.
Thank you Robert
When you play that chord at 4:14. the Bb/C . That sound immediately makes me think of the intro chord of "Im Not in Love" by 10cc.
It’s a transient chord I think. Not one to stay on but to traverse for briefly. It signals a suspension at the same time as the tonic harmony is retained. Really interesting insight to take on!
Im wired like you. I got swooned by harmony before I was 10. 50 yrs and a million gigs later Im still learning. I recognize you as a fellow seeker. Awsome work!
I could listen to you explain chord construction all day long…fabulous
Awesome stuff Aimee! So many great 70's songs I love use this chord, usually just notated for guitar ex. B/A for "I'm Not in Love". Will watch again.
Awesome, Aimee. Thanks!
Nice treatment of this chord progression. You are spot on in your videos.
Amy, you are correct about that chord. Didn't the real book have some similar "guesses" about the harmonization of standards and pop tunes? Keyboard players that I've known often are thinking in terms of triads over bass motion. When the bass player is present on stage or in the arrangement, it's a natural move to pull the key bass up & out of the bottom to the middle range. That seems obvious, and sounds correct for the example you chose. Spot on.
The 11 dissonance doesn't bother me at all. It just sounds like a V7 that wants to go home. Especially with the root as a pedal tone, the rub ain't bad on the EW&F tune. Your vocals sound really nice on Sweet Love btw!
As a rule for voice leading and arranging, you pretty much always need to put the 3rd above the 4th to avoid the m9. It works really well in the EWF tune because the odd note is in the melody. Having voicings with a m9 becomes nearly unusable when horns need to tune it. A major 7th is just a better dissonance when dealing with vertical harmony
Aimee thank you for addressing this topic - I find it confusing to read chord charts sometimes because the way we learned those chords in theory class is not the way they’re used in practice. I’m gonna sign up for Nebula so I can see the rest of your content on this subject and I’m sure I’m going to find a lot more to like once I’m there!
Absolutely love this channel
Yes, it’s there! I love it; it works! Always love your videos; so interesting and informative.
As soon as you played that chord I immediately sang “breathe, breathe in the air”
From dark side of the moon but I thought that song was just an em7 I can’t remember
Could be cool to voice lead that chord to something based on F or Dm or Bb triads
I thought of DSOTM instantly as well
Wonderful lesson Aimee.Thank you.
A lot of these extended chords, I think of them as 'stacked chords.' C major in the bottom & Bb major on top.
Stacking chords is just another way of thinking about it.
I find many of them when I tune my guitar in alternate tunings (that I've created). I usually work with chords first (chord patterns) & build melodies off of the chords. I think many songwriters work that way, as opposed to finding a melody first then figuring out what chords to play under it. When you work with alternate tunings & stacked chords, your melodies may enter certain dimensions that one wouldn't have necessarily have envisioned beforehand.
It all depends on personal taste, aesthetics and style. In the music I prefer and play, mostly based on jazz until the 70's, the only 11th chord that makes sense in part writing is the minor 11. This view comes form the excellent reference work about jazz harmony and composition that I use as a base and, most importantly, from using my ears. And also from classical tonal end key centered music theory. Almost always, when you see C11, they mean Csus4. Of course if you don't care about style and go for absolute freedom, one can make up some explanation or theory to justify any chord, even the most weird and dissonant one. But the one other most important thing that very very few understand, is where all those seemingly complex chords come from and what their function is. And that's not just about adding some colouring note here and there to a major or minor triad.
This was lovely
Interesting that some of these colorful harmonies can have different names that can convey slightly different sets of information. I might have personally avoided the ‘11’ nomenclature on some of these chords, but the music is so beautiful regardless and it was so well taught. Always appreciate you, Aimee.
Love it! I like to use Bbmaj7/C or Bbmimaj7/C as well. They are good substitutes for a full on dominant chord
That’d be a C13sus. Really beautiful sound.
Thank you for the interesting perspective on breaking down 11 into b7 over the root. You're awesome.
One of your best video’s and great analysis Aimee, thanks!
The way an 11 chord functions is as a mixed cadence. It's a dominant/subdominant as though the next chord should be the tonic. it carries the sound of both a dominant 7th and a classic "Amen" cadence. (I like to call it the "Gospel chord".) What's important about the dominant in this usage is that it's represented in the bass as though it's a dominant seventh chord, but you actually have the subdominant as the predominant sound in the upper part of the chord. You can add the third and fifth, but you have to be careful about the timbre of the instrumentation because the conflict will show up in the harmonic series of both notes if the timbre is too similar. For example, I'll sometimes do an 11th chord and skip the third and fifth on the keyboard knowing that the guitar is likely to pick them up. So it's a bit simplistic to call it a dominant 11th, but if your band understands it within their genre they will play the right parts of the chord for their instrument and if some get left out, a bass on the dominant with a subdominant chord is sufficient to fulfill its purpose. So it's not the technical voicing of the chord that's important but the purpose implied by the notation of "11".
I think this way makes most sense. Then the "3" is just the #11 of the subdominant. Interesting point about the clashing timbres
I think she answered it around the earth, wind and fire song. It's a melody passing. The idea of the suspension is that it keeps that annoying tension in our ear, but the tension releases once you pass it in the melody line.
Another example, for Yusuf fans, is "Sweet Scarlet" near the end of "Catch Bull At Four" by Cat Stevens, the second chord could be an 11th or it could be a slash chord.
🔥🔥🔥🔥 Ive never seen anyone get the "Sweet Love" turnaround right. 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
Thanks for that brilliant explanation. These are the chords I grew up with and it's wonderful to see a teacher cover this.
I also absolutely love that your piano has been tuned so beautifully.
great walk through as always but one thing I haven't heard or seen mentioned is that the origin of the most common voicing for an 11th chord comes from 17th century polyphony and JS Bach et al. You have typically 4 voices in choral music Bass, Tenor, Alto and Soprano so how do you spell an 11 chord with 4 voices? You throw away the notes you don't need, the 5th can go and as the Bass would ring the root the next three most important notes are the ones that give the flavour or colour of the chord which are the upper structure 7th 9th and 11th so this voicing ends up being (if we want to play a C11) C, Bb, D, F - this then also logically is a Bb/C which is where the confusion about 11, Sus4 or Slash chord comes from but essentially all are the same in origin as far as functional harmony goes. The function is as a dominant or secondary dominant, typically used as a V chord or as a new V when moving to a new key eg The EWF progression is a Db pedal with a typical sequence going from I to I7 to IV to IVm and instead of a straight I7 dominant an 11 is played.
It's logical to assume a route from 17th century polyphony > Black American Gospel > Black American Pop music. Especially as so many melodies and their harmonisations use a hexatonic scale that omits the 7th but keeps the 4th and so resulting harmony through voice leading gives a chord ii or IV over V almost everytime this gives us that IV/V chord that is so ubiquitous in Black American pop music and all of it's genres and sub genres.
There's quite an interesting version of 'That's the way of the World' by Masayoshi Takanaka, only just found it.. It's a Semitone up! Been playing both tracks all evening.
You've got a new subscriber, I resonate with your exploratory approach to Music.
Best wishes to you... I'm new here.
That Minor 9th interval. They used to say that the tritone is the Devil's Interval. Not. It's the Minor 9th. Not only in Dominant 11th chords (my rule for which is: build up to the 11th and eliminate the 3rd), but also various inversions of the 13th, the min9th chord, the #9 chord and even the maj7th. If you voice a 13th where the 7th is higher than the 13th, the minor 9th problem arises; if you voice a minor 9th chord where the 3rd is higher than the 9th, the minor 9th interval shows up; if you voice a #9 chord where the 3rd is higher than the #9, it shows up again, and even the humble maj7th chord, if you voice the Root above the major 7th, again, the minor 9th interval shows up. The Lydian and Dorian Scales are the only two that can be built up in 3rds all the way to the 13th and the minor 9th interval doesn't show up. This is the reason why George Russel considered the Lydian Scale to be the primal scale. Interesting notion. To my mind, there are very, very few chords that can accommodate the minor 9th interval. The only one I can think of offhand is the 7b9 chord. Thanks for this video. I'm glad someone finally spoke up about this problem with the 11th chord.
F in the bass aligns with C and makes the chord nice. F on top is dissonant because it's brighter being higher up and it has an overtone series directly contradicting the other overtones of the chord notes. So it's a note with fundamental and overtones that we prefer to be in a more muddy range, intersecting with the rest of the overtones of the notes of the chord. IOW I believe the issue of the F being on top of the C11 is that the F is up in that high, more clearly heard, not at all muddy range. And so when you play it up there its overtones (which we may not be able to pick out) are in conflict with everything coming up under it - i.e they are in conflict with the overtones of the chord structure notes under it, that are in harmonic alignment with the chord root/s (not every chord has only one possible root and I haven't analyzed C11 in that regard but....) So IMHO our ear will experience that conflict, whereas if you place the F lower down this turns into a beautiful chord. I WOULD avoid using the interval of a m9 interval with the m9 tone on top, but I LOVE hearing chords that are full of intervals and so rich sounding. Absolutely beautiful!
I just assume the 3d is omitted when I see an 11 chord. In addition to the IV/V slash chord notation, I have seen 9sus4 as an equivalent-ish chord.
it'd still be better if it were written correctly as a slash or 9sus4 chord
I got goosebumps when you starting signing "Sweet Love"😊. Thank you for the wonderful video.
Thank you Ms. Aimee!
BLEW MY MIND KEEP EM COMIN!
This is such a great topic for a video! And presented so pedagogically! Well done!
In most cases I think of C11 as C7sus4, which then allows me to either go for the simple Bb/C or extend it to C13sus4 (eg in Sweet Love you can play: Ab13sus4). The actual C11 including the 3rd is as you say rare.
Also, one key ingredient in That’s the way of the world is the inner voice movement C B Bb A, which makes the whole thing make a lot more sense.
I would play a B major triad over Db-Ab interval. In r n b this voicing is used all of the time. so you have flat 7 to 9th to 11th with conflict of the third because there is no third. Some people call it the Isley Chord because it is used in the beginning of "Work To Do" by the Isley Brothers and it can be voiced several ways. Sometimes it is voiced Db to B to Eb to G flat to Sb so the 5th it in the soprano.
Thanks for this, your usual generous work. Sharped 11th sounds GREAT over the major seventh/ninth (less so the flat seventh) because the augmented 4th above tonic relates to the dominant as a leading tone. You end up with piled major thirds separated by minor thirds. The unsharped subdominant belongs to a different sonic world from the tonic-dominant axis, however, and poses a voicing challenge, which you have explicated so well.
Especially if on the fly I will take that approach of playing the root and a major triad built on the 7th. it clears out the lower voicings and puts an emphasis on 7, 9, 11 which are usually the important harmonic functions when writing this chord.
Love the 2 sequential Sus chords in "Sweet Love".
1:50
All that sounds extremely beautiful, nothing was hurting my ears or something
Great video! Extremely insightful! It's funny I was just listening to That EWF song last night, on RUclips, which might be why this came up for me today! Either way, THANKS!!!
Thanks for this. You are an amazing musician, singer, and teacher. Your enthusiasm is inspirational and infectious.
Thank you for this lesson. Finally, I get to understand the 11 chord-something that I often use but was clueless what it was! Brilliant! Thank you again🕺🏻
Thanks Aimee. Lots of fun transferring all of this to guitar (and it mostly works).
Thanks for these great videos…..as a guitar player, having less fingers, it’s the Bb/C generally.
Aimee is the chord master!
I'm an illiterate in these matters. I wish I had your understanding but I am a dabbler, at best.
I know, and love, C11, from Wichita Lineman. For me, it thins out the voicing, makes it pale blue, like a prairie winter. The story is that Glen Campbell, in practicing for the session had come up with changes including the C11. Also played on baritone guitar for the session. I genuinely hear the difference between it and the sus, and I usually don't hear differences well enough to reliably tune a triangle. I just love that thinness. Also, the chord shape for an 11 is so simple in standard tuning on a guitar I'm not surprised it's all over the place.
I can’t hear a third on Wichita. I don’t hear the E note on the C11 chord. To me it’s Gmi7/C. Love the song with my whole heart though
Thanks again, Aimee. I know some arrangers who were students of Gordon Delamont, and they used C11 instead of Csus in their charts as kind of a pedagogical requirement. I totally agree that Csus, a.k.a. Bb/C, is the chord you want to play and hear, but you can add the E if you want to sound super hip. Fun fact: it's an open question as to whether Carole King or Brian Wilson were the first to introduce the sus chord into rock.
Which book? He wrote a lot of them.@@mer1red
Great video. I love cords! Must admit being a guitarist I tend to think of Bb11 and Ab/ Bb as the same thing but now I know they're not. Having said that, I always play them as slash chords it seems to work out OK. That 3rd when lower down as in the EWF song is great though. Sorry but think I'm going to have to rip off those 11 chords a minor 3rd apart 😂. Love your content, keep up the good work. Thanks.
Aimee says "I know what my next songs going to be" --- I have those moments every once in a while too, playing around with chord progressions and suddenly you think wow that sounds good. I'm never able to make a song out of it, but am waiting for yours !!!
I love your videos. I’m not at the keys right now but I can guarantee the voicing is a complete normal gospel / soul chord, and lots of certain players use the same voicing. I’m going to check it later if I’m right is there a way I can send it you, I’ve been playing this music most of my life it’s about patterns not voicing or theory, just progressions based on patterns and using your ears. I was shown it once and it changed my whole life with music.
You hit on the pattern thing in the Anita baker song. And loved them.
I love love love the sound of this chord
Nice overview. Your vids always hit me right in my blind spot. 🙏
I would always notate "true" 11th chords as "add11" chords to make sure that both the 3rd and the 11th are supposed to be there (so, Db9add11 in the first example). Or you could also notate it as another kind of a slash chord, for example Cbadd#11/Db. That also gives more information on how it should be voiced. Or at least it informs your thinking in some way.
When we see upper extensions like 11 or 13 or whatever, it's easy to assume they should be on top. This is why Cbadd#11/Db intuitively makes you voice it in a different way than Db11, because you usually place the #11 above the 5th, but in this case, the #11 of Cb is actually the 3rd in relation to Db. So, I would argue that if the chord was simply notated as Cbadd#11/Db, you would naturally find the "correct" voicing without having to think much. You would naturally place the F over the Gb (because you would think "#11 usually goes above the 5th"). In Db11, you would have to think (is the 3rd even supposed to be there, and if it is, where do you place it).
All in all, I think slash chords are underrated. They can sometimes be a really simple way of communicating chords that might look quite complex when notated in relation to the bass note. For example Cm7/D vs D7b9#5sus4. The latter may be more accurate functionally speaking (because it is in fact a D7 chord with suspensions), but the former is much simpler to read. Or G/C vs Cmaj9no5. Really common chord in modern pop music, and again, the latter is probably more accurate functionally speaking (it is in fact functioning as a C chord), but the former just instantly tells you what to play without having to think about how to voice it. You could even use it for something like Csus2/A vs Am11 (if "Csus2 over A" is the exact voicing you are after), even though Am11 is a completely fine chord symbol too. It naturally makes you voice it in a certain way.
I think I agree with you.. since I personally more often play Gm7/C instead of the true 11th chord
I love upper extensions, and that interval is fine when it's buried in the 11 chord.
Wonderfully informative and fascinating at the same time. Thanks, Aimee! Long live the 11th chord!
Great tutorial
Loving your course, Aimee.Thank you so much ! Best course I have ever invested in.🙂
Oh that makes me so happy! Thank you!
I didn’t know IReal b had alternate fonts to choose from! I saw your overlay and then I looked to see what options the app had. Lol. Thanks for the chord lesson.
Omg you just made me fall in love with this song and i love you for that 😍😍
Thank you, this really helped me a ton, I now understand 11 chords! I have been avoiding them
I have been fooling around and on my Hammond I think my favorite chord is the Eb7#9, my hand just lays on it perfectly. Any other #9 is a bit more of a stretch. I hit the root Eb on the left hand. It's the Blood Sweat & Tears intro chord to Spinning Wheel, except I think they do it as a D. Strange because you'd think the Eb would be easier for the horns, but perhaps not for Mr. Clayton-Thomas. That song has some deceptively high vocal notes.
I love these sounds and your channel. Music Theory talk is a grand topic amongst myself and my friends. Please continue producing your videos. The insights you’ve presented has made me ponder angles I haven’t considered previously. God Bless
In EWF, I can hear the 11th clearly up there in the strings. In Anita Baker, I think the chord over Ab is Gbmaj7
I honestly hear that Db11 in EWaF as the Ab minor. Well, given all the notes you pointed out, perhaps an Abmin7 (add 13), but that lends to make sense of the next chord. It becomes the II of IV, which then turns to IV minor.
That 11 chord viewed as a minor means you could just classify it as ALMOST a secondary dominant to the IV chord. Granted it's not a V, but I feel that the II can lead to the I almost just as well sometimes.
Also going doing the ii V I of IV and then to iv minor is so common is so common, it's how I here that chord in this scenario.
great. Love your voice! You are rotating the big songwriter mystery wheel. And you succeed!
Excellent breakdown 😊
I just discovered your channel... Wow, you're really amazing at explaining this stuff! Perfect pace, easy to follow, going more in depth right where it's interesting to do so, very calm but with such a passion - wonderful! I'm not really a piano player (although I learned it years back), but I'm very interested in music theory. I mostly play bass, and at the end of that video, you're saying that you collaborate with Adam!? I'll check that immediately!
A couple more examples: (a) First chord in "With a Little Luck" by Paul McCartney. (b) ii11 (ie, minor chord with m7, M9, & 11) is the second chord of Ravel's “Rigaudon,” from Le tombeau de Couperin; every chord member (DFACEG) is present.
I guess context is evrything. that was great Aimee.
That trick of voicing Db11 with the F a major 7th above the Gb follows a good general trick in voicing "problem" chords, to favor major seventh intervals. For example: Cmaj9(add Bb) - spread it out a bit and put the Bb a major 7th above the B.