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Great interview. It was excellent to hear Pastor Joel bring the Biblical standard for burden of proof and Biblical context into the discussion. It is crystal clear that people like Russell Moore, Ed Litton and Al Mohler are not as interested in what God's Word says about such issues as what the world does.
Excellent interview! The distinction between eyewitnesses and hearsay is extremely important and the lines are getting blurred by so many. I appreciate you shedding light on that and teaching the biblical principles that Churches and Christian institutions must follow in these situations.
@@PreachingforGodsGlory Not trying to make a scathing point. My concern is that we lose credibility when at 9:30 or so in the video Ms. Basham relies on unnamed friends of David Sills. Then around 14:00 or so the point is made, which you correctly highlight, that a strong evidentiary foundation, more than hearsay or vague references to unnamed people, should be required to assume someone is an abuser or that there is rampant abuse. Mr. Sills should could tell his story, but if he chooses not to, which is his right, we cannot assume what his version of the story is.
@@Rawband Correct. We can not assume anything without evidence. That's the point. Ms. Basham cited his friends as character references. A court would do that to. But without eyewitnesses or any form of evidence, a person cannot be deemed guilty. Just because someone cannot be proven guilty does not mean that they are innocent - but it does mean that they should not incur defamation of character or any other punishment for something that cannot be proven. I understand your point, though. My original comment was not referencing any of that - but yes, anything that David Sills' friends and collegues might say about him is in the same category as hearsay because they did not witness any abuse. They can provide character testimony. I agree that there should be caution in how much credence one gives to the testimony of the accused abuser's friends. As a reporter though, she has to work with the information that she's given. If this were in court, David Sills would have to tell his side of the story. And we need to always remember that the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Our legal system functions, for the most part, as innocent until proven guilty. That is rapidly changing, but thank God for faithful judges that uphold the law!
Being critical of a fishy investigation does not minimize abuse. Including everything and the kitchen sink is what minimizes abuse. We should not lump non-abuse with real abuse because then that just erases the true meaning of abuse.
Just now found this intevew. Excellent job Joel and Meagan. I am ashamed at how quickly SBC pastors are abandoning the absolutely clear teaching of Scripture regarding accusations against an elder.
Excellent - just excellent. I read her article when it first came out, and thought: "The the SBC is *still* gonna go ahead and pursue this." Thnx Joel and Megan.
Thanks again Pastor Joel, this video helped bring context to the situation within the SBC. I was baptised in an SBC church, my wife, my grandparents, my parents were. It is painful to see what has happened, and I can't help but wonder why these people don't join one of the many liberal "bapist" denominations out there instead of targeting the SBC with this malarkey. I think we know that the devil is mostly done with them, they can't get much more depraved, so now he is turning his attention to the SBC. It's no mistake, it's not an accident, and I pray it's not too late, but we are called to be Christians first and not Southern Baptists by the Lord.
"I can't help but wonder why these people don't join one of the many liberal "bapist" denominations out there instead of targeting the SBC with this malarkey." Because the SBC has a gold mine of big seminaries and other already-existng infrastructure. Church liberals are parasites who seek to take over what conservatives have built in an ever-repeating process. Also they want to use the SBC as a channel for converting to wokeism the people in those conservative churches that never get around to leaving.
The Gadfly from the Gatekeepers illustrated many of these points and conclusions as well. The report uncovered hardly anything extra that Houston Chronicle didn't report.
Why aren't we hearing about the orphans and state placement children being groomed in the Southern Baptist Convention child trafficking scandal? They didn't just groom girls for arranged marriages, they were groom boys for men too and your not hearing about it.
One of the things that the whole "me too"/"believe all women" movement seems to leave out is that women can be abusers too. ( "It is better to live on the corner of a rooftop than in a large house with a contentious woman." "A continual dripping on a rainy day and a contentious woman are alike, he who restrains her is like one who restrains the wind, like one who grasps oil in his right hand.") They are sinners just like men, and can be seductresses, and instigators. They can also lie. I was married to a woman that the APA classifies as having Borderline Personality Disorder. Their problem isn't that they have a Personality Disorder, but that they are engaged in a lifestyle of gross unrepentant sin. It is a lifestyle of seduction, lying, stealing, and verbal, emotional, and sometimes physical abuse of intimate partners. And those relationships generally end with the woman falsely accusing their partner of abuse. The whole "me too"/"believe all women" movement, inside and outside of the church, wants people to believe it doesn't exist. But those women really do exist, and there are very real male victims.
Can you elaborate a little more on what measures you took with your marriage and were there children involved? I'm in a similiar situation with two young children stuck in the middle. It grieves me to see their mother set such a poor example for them. If you don't want to divulge too much information on your previous wife/marriage, I understand.
@@jeremyrothrock6163 Luckily for me we didn't have children together, but I can give you a good idea what you need to do. First your primary goal should be her repentance, but that is purely up to God. Assuming she isn't going to repent, you need to get out of the relationship, and you need to take your children with you. That means you need to build a case that she is an unfit mother, and that the children are endangered by being with her. (ABR) "Always Be Recording" Learn how to record audio on your phone or another device and record her whenever she goes into a rant. If you can use nanny cams or your phone to record video, even better. If your church practices Biblical church discipline go to them first. If she doesn't repent, or if your church doesn't practice discipline, go to the government. That is, after you have gathered sufficient evidence, and sue for divorce and full custody of the children. They are not safe with her, and neither are you!
Trying to convince people that they need to wake up is more painful than watching Sam trying to convince Frodo for two 3 hour movies that Gollum couldn't be trusted and Frodo calling him mean and "everyone deserves a 27th chance." I have learned to not cast my pearls to pigs, but I have also learned to not cast my pearls to those who cast THEIR pearls to pigs.
There are certainly some great people in the Southern Baptist communicty. I think a lot of women just think it is "cool" these days to convict men in power of ilicit activities. On the other hand, it is true enough that the Southern Baptists are the worst offenders against women. I have heard of too many women who really have been abused by their relatives and counselors who would claim to be upstanding Baptist citizens. Then, the women do not have a voice. It gets similar to the Moslem law which insisits a woman must have four witnesses to claim she has been raped. How likely is that? The main problem here is tht man accused was immoral, whether the woman consented or not. We always pay for our sins.
People with leadership positions in your churches admitted that they abused women and children. Than other leaders covered it up. What about all the accusations that were not false? All these things that did happen does make your Church Fellowship Group look bad because bad things happened to people. You aided and abetted oppresses and abuses.
Of course it is. Sexual abuse is horribly wicked, and the consequences should be severe. But the question is this: Is the SBC marked by sexual abuse? One case in an organization with 100,000-150,000 staff members is not sufficient to say that the SBC is “uniquely” wicked in this area. If that is the standard, public schools should have all been completely shut down decades ago.
Public schools aren’t led by Christian pastors or church workers. There is a higher standard in churches or at least should be. You are comparing apples and oranges here.
Subscribe to our RUclips channel for more content like this. To support Right Response Ministries, visit: rightresponseministries.com/donate/
Subscribe to Theology Applied full episodes below:
Apple podcast: bit.ly/theologyapplied
Spotify podcast: bit.ly/theologyappliedspotify
If you live in the Austin area, Pastor Joel just started planting a brand new church called Covenant Bible Church in Hutto, Texas. He would love for you to come visit on a Sunday. Check out the church’s website for details: covenantbible.org/
A documentary on, "What is Pastor" would be timely and appropriate! Thanks for producing great material Pastor Joel and Megan Basham!
What is a pastor? SBC: We're not theologians.
@@maxmustermann1206 hahaha. Exactly.
Great interview. It was excellent to hear Pastor Joel bring the Biblical standard for burden of proof and Biblical context into the discussion. It is crystal clear that people like Russell Moore, Ed Litton and Al Mohler are not as interested in what God's Word says about such issues as what the world does.
They were just trying to sweep things away asap
@@SarahR2D2 But they could have easily gone on the offensive, if they had been sufficiently grounded in scripture and a little logic.
They have a policy against gossip
Excellent interview! The distinction between eyewitnesses and hearsay is extremely important and the lines are getting blurred by so many. I appreciate you shedding light on that and teaching the biblical principles that Churches and Christian institutions must follow in these situations.
But yet we give significant credence to unnamed friends of David who spoke to Ms. Basham. Seems like we should be consistent.
@@Rawband Who is being inconsistent?
@@PreachingforGodsGlory Not trying to make a scathing point. My concern is that we lose credibility when at 9:30 or so in the video Ms. Basham relies on unnamed friends of David Sills. Then around 14:00 or so the point is made, which you correctly highlight, that a strong evidentiary foundation, more than hearsay or vague references to unnamed people, should be required to assume someone is an abuser or that there is rampant abuse. Mr. Sills should could tell his story, but if he chooses not to, which is his right, we cannot assume what his version of the story is.
@@Rawband Correct. We can not assume anything without evidence. That's the point. Ms. Basham cited his friends as character references. A court would do that to. But without eyewitnesses or any form of evidence, a person cannot be deemed guilty. Just because someone cannot be proven guilty does not mean that they are innocent - but it does mean that they should not incur defamation of character or any other punishment for something that cannot be proven. I understand your point, though. My original comment was not referencing any of that - but yes, anything that David Sills' friends and collegues might say about him is in the same category as hearsay because they did not witness any abuse. They can provide character testimony. I agree that there should be caution in how much credence one gives to the testimony of the accused abuser's friends. As a reporter though, she has to work with the information that she's given. If this were in court, David Sills would have to tell his side of the story. And we need to always remember that the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Our legal system functions, for the most part, as innocent until proven guilty. That is rapidly changing, but thank God for faithful judges that uphold the law!
Oh boy, what Megan says at the end is what every woman needs to hear!
"I was a victim, but that is NOT my identity. I am a victor in Christ." Now THAT is Good News!. Amen and amen.
Being critical of a fishy investigation does not minimize abuse. Including everything and the kitchen sink is what minimizes abuse. We should not lump non-abuse with real abuse because then that just erases the true meaning of abuse.
Your comment needs a proof read.
Just now found this intevew. Excellent job Joel and Meagan.
I am ashamed at how quickly SBC pastors are abandoning the absolutely clear teaching of Scripture regarding accusations against an elder.
"Don't make your identity a victim". AMEN
Thank You for the interview, Pastor Joel! Your idea of a documentary: 'What is a Pastor' is so needed!
Ooh, your username is making my mouth water.
Excellent - just excellent. I read her article when it first came out, and thought: "The the SBC is *still* gonna go ahead and pursue this." Thnx Joel and Megan.
Thanks again Pastor Joel, this video helped bring context to the situation within the SBC. I was baptised in an SBC church, my wife, my grandparents, my parents were. It is painful to see what has happened, and I can't help but wonder why these people don't join one of the many liberal "bapist" denominations out there instead of targeting the SBC with this malarkey. I think we know that the devil is mostly done with them, they can't get much more depraved, so now he is turning his attention to the SBC. It's no mistake, it's not an accident, and I pray it's not too late, but we are called to be Christians first and not Southern Baptists by the Lord.
"I can't help but wonder why these people don't join one of the many liberal "bapist" denominations out there instead of targeting the SBC with this malarkey."
Because the SBC has a gold mine of big seminaries and other already-existng infrastructure. Church liberals are parasites who seek to take over what conservatives have built in an ever-repeating process. Also they want to use the SBC as a channel for converting to wokeism the people in those conservative churches that never get around to leaving.
I hadn’t even heard about this yet! Great video, thank you! 🙏🏽♥️
So helpful. Thank you for this video!
The Gadfly from the Gatekeepers illustrated many of these points and conclusions as well. The report uncovered hardly anything extra that Houston Chronicle didn't report.
Quite excellent, quality content, and exemplary application of God's Word. Thank you.
Why aren't we hearing about the orphans and state placement children being groomed in the Southern Baptist Convention child trafficking scandal? They didn't just groom girls for arranged marriages, they were groom boys for men too and your not hearing about it.
One of the things that the whole "me too"/"believe all women" movement seems to leave out is that women can be abusers too. ( "It is better to live on the corner of a rooftop than in a large house with a contentious woman." "A continual dripping on a rainy day and a contentious woman are alike, he who restrains her is like one who restrains the wind, like one who grasps oil in his right hand.") They are sinners just like men, and can be seductresses, and instigators. They can also lie. I was married to a woman that the APA classifies as having Borderline Personality Disorder. Their problem isn't that they have a Personality Disorder, but that they are engaged in a lifestyle of gross unrepentant sin. It is a lifestyle of seduction, lying, stealing, and verbal, emotional, and sometimes physical abuse of intimate partners. And those relationships generally end with the woman falsely accusing their partner of abuse. The whole "me too"/"believe all women" movement, inside and outside of the church, wants people to believe it doesn't exist. But those women really do exist, and there are very real male victims.
Well, glad you got that out.
@@kaysandee Thank you.
Can you elaborate a little more on what measures you took with your marriage and were there children involved? I'm in a similiar situation with two young children stuck in the middle. It grieves me to see their mother set such a poor example for them. If you don't want to divulge too much information on your previous wife/marriage, I understand.
@@jeremyrothrock6163 Luckily for me we didn't have children together, but I can give you a good idea what you need to do. First your primary goal should be her repentance, but that is purely up to God. Assuming she isn't going to repent, you need to get out of the relationship, and you need to take your children with you. That means you need to build a case that she is an unfit mother, and that the children are endangered by being with her. (ABR) "Always Be Recording" Learn how to record audio on your phone or another device and record her whenever she goes into a rant. If you can use nanny cams or your phone to record video, even better. If your church practices Biblical church discipline go to them first. If she doesn't repent, or if your church doesn't practice discipline, go to the government. That is, after you have gathered sufficient evidence, and sue for divorce and full custody of the children. They are not safe with her, and neither are you!
Amber Heard 😳
Thank you Pastor Joel 🙏 for helping us to see a Bible point of view in every situation❗
Victory in Jesus, Amen❗
Trying to convince people that they need to wake up is more painful than watching Sam trying to convince Frodo for two 3 hour movies that Gollum couldn't be trusted and Frodo calling him mean and "everyone deserves a 27th chance." I have learned to not cast my pearls to pigs, but I have also learned to not cast my pearls to those who cast THEIR pearls to pigs.
Dr. Fauci deserves a 427th chance.
I gotta make a trip to Georgetown dude.
I wish you were around when I was in San Marcos
There are certainly some great people in the Southern Baptist communicty. I think a lot of women just think it is "cool" these days to convict men in power of ilicit activities. On the other hand, it is true enough that the Southern Baptists are the worst offenders against women. I have heard of too many women who really have been abused by their relatives and counselors who would claim to be upstanding Baptist citizens. Then, the women do not have a voice. It gets similar to the Moslem law which insisits a woman must have four witnesses to claim she has been raped. How likely is that? The main problem here is tht man accused was immoral, whether the woman consented or not. We always pay for our sins.
Al Mohler has to go.
People with leadership positions in your churches admitted that they abused women and children. Than other leaders covered it up. What about all the accusations that were not false?
All these things that did happen does make your Church Fellowship Group look bad because bad things happened to people. You aided and abetted oppresses and abuses.
🤡
So they tried to create the Handmaid's Tale in order to achieve egalitarian status. Lol
Exactly right.
Russell Moore 🐺⚡🐺⚡🐺
He is one of he great villains of 21st century church history. He played a huge role in wrecking the SBC.
SBC is no longer a Christian organization
Megan is having audio trouble…. Her voice is off and not in sync with what she is saying.
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟💯
Even one case is too many.
Of course it is. Sexual abuse is horribly wicked, and the consequences should be severe. But the question is this: Is the SBC marked by sexual abuse? One case in an organization with 100,000-150,000 staff members is not sufficient to say that the SBC is “uniquely” wicked in this area. If that is the standard, public schools should have all been completely shut down decades ago.
Public schools aren’t led by Christian pastors or church workers. There is a higher standard in churches or at least should be. You are comparing apples and oranges here.
@@judithtaylor6713 The point is that the secular media and government should take the log out of their own eyes before getting the speck out of ours.
Oh!
Good point! Thank you.