Taste | David Mitchell's Soapbox
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- David Mitchell gives his personal opinion on personal tastes.
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ABOUT DAVID MITCHELL'S SOAPBOX:
David Mitchell, star of UK TV favourites Peep Show and That Mitchell and Webb Look, brings us his unique perspective on the issues facing men of the world today.
I love when Mitchell takes me for a ride in his Logic Van. At some point he drives off the road and begins swerving through Batshit Mental Forest. But inside the van, things still seem logical somehow.
That's because all the bacon and fornication is inside the van :D
perfectly, accurate !
Batshit mental forest
Stay in in the van my friend !!
Why am I reading your comments in his voice 🤔🤔
My tastes; objective.
Your tastes; subjective.
If you disagree then that's just your opinion (and nothing more).
SirNilzey well shit
How can you get that so wrong - it is the other way around!
You are so very, very wrong about that....
@@Charlz1980tv Did you think I would grow complacent over 10 years and not notice your subjective opinions?
@@SirNilzey i kind of hoped you would. After all, i waited all this time to post them ...😎😉
Waugh gave us decline and fall, rhubarb gave us crumble
That's quite clever.
Thank you for that, and for your excellent, crawling, chaotic, and yet pleasant and ordinary name.
"the fundamental fascism of the human soul is laid bare" so good.
"Bacon on its own is just like watching a load of Harrison Ford interviews" David Mitchell, Series 4, Episode 1.
Bacon is overrated
A big problem occurs when people try to explain why they do or don't like something (it's much more common in disliking something) to try and convince others. Because they're providing a way to argue against them.
If you say "I don't like bacon", that's pretty much it, you can use that alone, it can't really be argued against.
When you try to justify it with "I don't like bacon because..." then you get problems because specific reasons can be argued against. It's like that scene in Pulp Fiction where saying he doesn't like bacon because pigs are filthy animals sparks a whole debate about what constitutes a filthy animal and if personality mattered with them.
The most extreme example I've seen (and I'm not making this up) is someone who claimed they didn't like hollywood films because they don't like superheroes. If they had just said they didn't like hollywood films that would have been the end of it because you can't argue against personal taste. They fact that they felt the need to justify their tastes with "I don't like superheroes" opens them up to argument the most obvious being "What about the films that don't involve superheroes?"
When you try and create an objective explanation for something that is entirely subjective you only invite arguments because reasons can be contradicted and argued away, and opinions can't.
maybe he was just being straight savage @ hollywood being crateively bankrupt and only making superhero movies. i think that is at least as likely as someone being stupid enough to think that hollywood has literally never made another type of movie. i realise this comment is 5 years old i don't care it's basically still just as relevant
When you refuse to give reasons, you're essentially saying "This is not a conversation I want to have. It's not an issue that aught to be resolved. I realize I may well lose this debate, but it won't change my opinion, and if anything just make both of us angry, so let's just skip it." It's frustrating, but we find we have to respect it, because I think everyone realizes on some level that they too have foibles that are held irrationally, or that you just don't have the rhetorical tools to defend. If every aspect of everyone's lives was constantly being dissected, everyone would look like idiots. So a kind of social cease-fire called tolerance has been implemented.
Sometimes some of our preferences are so important to us that we allow them to become part how we define ourselves. So when someone dislikes something that we have absorbed into the definition of what makes us us, it feels like they're saying they don't like us.
The way David leered into the camera after the word "fornication" will haunt my dreams tonight.
i had a friend who claims to hate cheese. Obviously that's impossible, and I have often furiously insisted that his alleged dislike of cheese in all its forms is nothing more than an affectation which he uses to try and seem "outre" and interesting.
Once he was half way through a meal which he was obviously enjoying, when someone pointed out that its primary ingredient was cheese. He got up and emptied his plate into the rubbish bin. You can't win against people like that. Needless to say I had to delete his number from my phone and move house.
Holy crap I am angry just hearing that story.
I hate cheese. Every single piece of cheese I have ever smelled, felt or tasted has made me ill and want to avoid it at all costs.
Of course no one believes me when I tell them, but it's honestly not their problem anyway. What I want to eat, I will eat and what I don't, I won't.
Max There you go. " What I want to eat, I will eat and what I don't, I won't."
That's more like the truth, and I'm pleased you can admit it. It's not that you don't like cheese (that's obviously not true),. It's that you don't WANT to eat it and refuse to be to do so on principle. There are plenty of vegetarians who don't want to eat bacon, and therefore don't eat bacon, but that's got nothing to do with liking it. Everybody likes cheese mate.That's just a fact.
allergic is different lol you're allowed a pass, and should be given a badge for you repeated attempts! XD
My parents tried to get me to like cheese as a child and both them and most of our extended family put in a considerable amount of effort to hide the cheese in a meal that wouldn't otherwise have it. HOwever, I would always find something deeply unpleasant about the meal and refuse to eat it. This one time my parents were really determined about not letting me leave the table until I at least tried eating it so I literally forced myself through tears to do it, only to throw up immediately afterwards.
That's one of the strengths of the sitcom Seinfeld, it appealed to people's desire to assume malevolence over ignorance. There could hypothetically have been an episode where a character was pretending to like something for some impossibly petty gain, or possibly just to be irritating, and this character could even have been one of the protagonists.
"Evil In War" thats what I heard. Waugh is great as well.
I had the exact same experience and was rather baffled. :D
The same here. Had to repeat it twice. Never thought how that name is pronounced.
Fornication tastes infinitely better than rhubarb.
But not better than bacon.
Depends on which tables you're eating at.
"The fundamental fascism of the human soul" Haha, David Mitchell is the best.
Note to self: "Homework set by David Mitchell this week; read an Evelyn Waugh book."
the thought of Strawberry Rhubarb Pie makes me salivate. I love it A LOT. Especially if it's heated, and has vanilla ice cream on top. This is surely one of life's simple, yet greatest tasty treasures.
You were clearly not introduced to rhubarb through my Mum's baking. (The culinary equivalent of "You've started with the wrong Waugh book")
The little stare and wiggle David does after he says "fornication" makes the whole video.
thanks a lot, spent 5 minutes trying to google "Evil in War" :D
Yeah, took me scrolling down to the comments (and a quick google) to find Evelyn Waugh.
Have you tried one or more of his books by now? They're good.
@@ripdbtpoo1441 No. Like P. G. Wodehouse, strikes me as a little too British/ English for me to understand, quite yet (I'm a U.S. Citizen). It seems like something I would read while studying for the U.K. naturalization exam (assuming it's at all like the U.S. process). Would love to do that, not sure it's in the cards.
@@Jo_Collins No no no. They're fun. Try "Hot Water" by Wodehouse. More than half the characters are U.S. citizens, as was WODEHOUSE!
@@ripdbtpoo1441 Wodehouse became an American partly in response to the attitude of his British compatriots to his WWII broadcasts from occupied France. He was kept in detention by the Germans and compelled to broadcast 'everything is fine' programs. The British never really forgave him for it.
The look on David's face when he shouts 'FORNICATION'. Ah, classic.
These episodes make me see the world in new, clever and pretty ways.
I've had that reaction when I hear that someone doesn't like certain food and have received it when I've told people I don't like a certain food. Usually only when it's something that most people like and that is considered delicious, people get incredulous.
As someone who, unfortunately, doesn't like a lot of things, I can tell you that people will absolutely react with disbelief and suspicion when you say you don't like watermelon. Or cheese. There are some things it is apparently so unacceptable to dislike that people won't even try to pretend that they are ok with it.
I have had some odd arguments with a close friend of mine about bacon. I like bacon. I think it's pretty alright. But I also have a distinct feeling of it being incredibly overrated in the public eye. I really don't see what all the fuss is about with it, and why people seem to like it so very much. It's not great. It's not one of my favorite foods, or close to one. But it's decent. I'll eat it without complaint and with moderate enjoyment. I think this is a perfectly reasonable stance to have about it, but my friend disagrees. He loves bacon. He loves meat in general. He thinks I am silly for only somewhat liking bacon instead of loving it.
Once you get into an argument about not just whether or not you like something, but to the degree that you like it, you know something has gone incredibly wrong.
You've just failed the Turing Test!
***** That's exactly what it's like. Good analogy!
^^ haha this like... I agree so much.... damn bacon bandwagon got em all good! XD
haha I didn't see Anthony mentioned the ol bandwagon too :p
Bacon was the pinup for the health movement in the 90's (and probably b4 that...i dunno, i wasn't alive then). The archetypal bad food because of all the saturated fat that comes out of it when you cook it. Presumably, fatties who were sick of being judged for not being part of the trendy healthy group started to take the childish stance and do the complete opposite to STICK IT TO THE MAN.
That's my theory on the bacon fetish anyway.
The editor who made that final cut decision is a genius
I don't believe that people are wrong or lying when discussing food simply because I can reference my own life and realize that many of the foods I like today I did not like yesterday. In some cases such as going from childhood to adulthood we may actually acquire new capabilities for tasting. And as adults it's possible to muster the discipline to tolerate an initial bad or mediocre impression in order to experience the subtler flavors that occasionally win us over.
When I encounter someone with a lengthy list of food dislikes, I begin to wonder about the source of the trauma.
Yep. My dad's a preacher and my family we weren't allowed to eat bacon for the longest time - but that was just because my parents thought pork was unhealthy!
The answer is passion for sofas and helping small businesses grow
As a career bookseller, it's part of my job not to judge people by their reading tastes, and I work hard at it. I don't always (or even often) succeed, but I've become very good at not expressing my opinions.
Sometimes I feel that keeping my mouth shut is a form of lying, particularly when someone wants to buy a book I think is rubbish.
It could be humility though. We have to remember that 1. We could be wrong and 2. There could be some other personal meaning the book carries for the reader. Don’t be too hard on yourself.
Your rants significantly improves my days. Thanks David!
Well taste is very clear on whether or not you like it and the only way to like something is to try again later or become more experienced with food. You can't convince something they just tried is good if they don't like it but you can with other kinds of opinions.
"So Delicious it's been banned by two major religions. "
That is now how I introduce myself :P
Lol
I have come to believe in what I call "Confirmation Through Diametric Opposition". The concept is simple: you should always have someone(s) in your life who is your diametric opposite. If you're vegetarian, keep a carnivore around. If you're liberal, keep a conservative on a short leash, etc. The idea is that these people will challenge your beliefs and habits, and (at least for me) give you countless examples of why you've made the right choices ("Well, I've seen what the other side has to offer - no thanks!")...
(continued) and immediately I am shouting at the screen, "you don't like rhubarb?! You strange person. Not even a rhubarb crumble?"
I think the difference between food and political & cultural tastes is because our mindset is how YOU perceive rhubarb is inherently different to other people's perceptions of rhubarb; because food taste is a highly personal,isolatingly individual experience that will not have a direct affect on anyone else. We do care however about other tastes; political, musical, cultural,as they have a direct impact on our lives and/or reflect that person's personality which we judge to enjoy the company of.
i love that long weird look at the camera after the word "forication"
lolly stick answer: About 4 feet
What a wonderful chap he is!
Funny how "Evelyn Waugh" sounds exactly like "evil in war" in a posh British accent. :D
"evil in war" might be a phrase you won't use very often, simply because it's so tautological. But would you really want to invite these subconscious associations?
I thought "Evil in War" was the name of some book like "War and Peace."
I worked with food before and i will tell you there is people who could not care less for the social convention of not explaining in detail why he can feel taste better than you.
If you can live understanding that others Actually have a specific taste and if sometimes you dare to taste what they like, just out of curiosity and dont start a argument out of it you sir, are a hero.
David nails it again. I totally agree with his musing.
I think anything that you have emotional or psychological investment in can be a thorny and contentious area.
Many taste (food) preferences are indeed almost universal among people (and presumably genetic)... stuff like sweet=tasty, bitter=yuck. However, there are many which are learned too. Quite interestingly, there are some taste preferences which are learned while still in the womb based on what one's mother eats. There is some evidence that some food preferences are even epigenetic.
Serious answer: Taste in food is very binary. You either like the ways something tastes or you dont. There is no deeper layer of thought behind it. With things such as film, literature and music on the other hand, there are many layers of meaning in each work, and liking them or not often depends on how fully you understand them. Therefore, its possible to change someones mind about art by helping them understand it better but not about food flavor because there is nothing there to understand.
You're wrong, rhubarb is great when prepared properly. The sour nature of the ingredient van be offset nicely with other sweet ingredients in for example an apple-rhubarb crumble. When the flavours are nicely balanced, rhubarb can be a great addition to any dish.
Loved the slightly too long pause with David leering at the camera after saying "fornication"
“So delicious, it’s been banned by two major religions”
That’s actually my profile for dating sites.
I can't wait until David does a video about people like you.
I'm so proud.
One of the reasons I don't eat rhubarb, is the lack of access at restaurants I choose to eat at, and at those restaurants I would much rather eat some meaty goodness. Another is me having had kidney stones twice before the age of 30, I am more susceptible to get afflicted again. And rhubarb is one of the things that increase the odds of it.
You choose your friends based on their similar modes of thinking. People with similar thinking will usually enjoy similar intellectual stimulation like books, so you have common ground to start on that they would have enjoyed the book in other circumstances. Eating is totally unrelated to the filters you use to pick friends so you have no basis to object to your friends taste in food.
That lingering stare at the camera after he says "fornication" is terrifying.
I love the graphic of the flying bacon crossing the screen!
Evelyn Waugh wrote Brideshead Revisited, whereas a bowl of rhubarb is a high potassium snack in a hollow vessel. That must be it?
Of course, in before those wonderful wonderful annotations are enabled.
Love the videos.
I think the real reason is that, like colour, food tastes have no objective reference point about which we can argue. We have no choice but to accept differences - even though the fact is that we probably all just like what we're used to, and could learn to like any food with enough time.
The logic of humour is poorly understood, but it is understood at least a bit, so we can argue about it somewhat. The more objective facts we have relating to a topic, the more we can and will argue about it.
Rhubarby bed.. love it.. Love him
David Mitchell is one of the people of whom I want a tiny little copy - like in Indian in the Cupboard. He can live in a tiny little cottage and wear tiny little collared shirts, and write tiny little books all day long, and he can have all the bacon he wants.
It's divinely delicious. You're missing out, but there's nothing wrong or right in food.
"Rhubarb is revolting." Brilliant.
Taste for food is a physical thing where some peoples tongue's are built with a different ratio of sweet/sour ect. sensors so things do taste different.
Thats why kids find some foods really bad but then find they really like the same thing when older. "Taste" in books ect. is entirely mental, and while it is somewhat based on the persons personality ultimately a persons mind can be changed and with current tech someone's tongue cannot.
Yes, because, unlike the tongue, the brain is not a physical organ.
It all comes down to what battles are worth fighting for. If you valued bacon highly enough that it was part of your core values then you might very well choose to make it an issue. I like bacon but if someone started a heated debate over it I may think them a little bit loopy.
It is a demonstrable fact that bacon is the height of awesomeness and that rhubarb is not even fit to make compost.
Sex and Bacon, if you can manage both at the same time, then Bacchus himself shall smile on you.
Very good David. Taste has always been a big issue for me. As a lover of David Lynch and Bacon!
Bacon is for sure a deal breaker on a date.
The lolly stick answer was "A Newspaper". It was a different riddle.
Our comments make your point manifest.
I never realized you were not meant tell someone they were crazy for not liking a certain food. I've got a friend who doesn't like eggs and i believe someone has done something to distort his fragile mind.
That... was... so... hilarious!!! Awesome!
On the contrary, I've argued with people AND WON on how they don't truly understand the foods they claim to hate because, it was prepared wrong. I've prepared and made dishes that bring out the flavors and aromas of the dishes they claim to hate, in surprising and new ways that cause them to reevaluate their understanding of halibut, or whatever it is I've cooked. I think the evaluator of their distaste for books requires an understanding of the knowledge base to be able to question it in others
I love it too! My mouth is watering only by reading your comment... Well, sorry David...
a movie critic I like said that indeed films are subjective but a reviewer should try to distinguish between that which is likely personal to them and those things which the majority consider when judging a movie
I love the fact that I was already eating bacon while watching this, and had refused the rhubarb pie last night. :)
Maybe the reason we don't accept peoples taste in books and politics the same as with food is because the reason someone doesn't like bacon can be that they once got sick for some reason after eating it (that's why I don't like pineapple), and that doesn't really make a large impact on the relationship. But if someone has a very different taste in books or politics it would suggest that their views and how they perceive the world around them are very different and maybe they shouldn't be friends
I absolutely LOVE Rhubarb...AND Bacon!
Taste in food is genetic and cannot be changed, no matter how good the argument;
whereas taste in literature, media, hobbies, etc. is behavioural and can be.
You're absolutely right. I'm sure Waugh's main aim in life was to be wittier than stewed fruit, and that he was eternally gutted for failing to succeed in this area.
I find that music and comedy are the most contentious opinions people can hold. The ones that get people most riled up and are not accepted as merely "taste" in others. No-one will say that it's okay to like a certain comedian or band that they don't like, they will say you're stupid and wrong. I even admit to doing it. I guess opinions on politics get people riled up because they actually affect people. Although music and comedy do not people still get just as stubborn over them. Odd.
you can only argue in favour or a book or film if you decide what makes books and films objectively good or bad first
I love the bacon in the background at 0:19
what really annoys me is when people take these videos seriously. the subject of personal taste IS a serious one, but it's being written and spoken about by john finnemore and david mitchell; both professional comedians. they're making a good and funny point about the fact that we really don't take other people's opinions and tastes to heart when they conflict with our own.
"The fundamental fascism of the human soul." What a phrase.
I'd never previously heard of that book
Another great video! Thank you David!
I hate alcohol and coffee, and often people DO try to change my mind about it. The sort of people who make liking alcohol or coffee their entire personality.
The problem with mixing objective and subjective is that I might become subjected to your objections.
Q: What!s the difference between Evelyn Waugh and a bowl of rhubarb?
A1: Most lolly-stick joke writers know what a bowl of rhubarb is.
A2: Nobody forced Evelyn Waugh.
A3: Waugh gave us Vile Bodies; rhubarb makes bile voddies
My point was, that if you know your subject you can argue it. his example here was food and books. as he would go off on someone about disliking Waugh as he knows the author well, I to would go off on someone for disliking halibut because I know my fish. "perhaps they'd read the wrong book of his or with the wrong attitude" I say "perhaps it wasn't cooked right or had the wrong sides or seasoning" as I WOULDN'T tell anyone off for disliking Waugh as 20 seconds ago I found out what a Waugh is
I think the thing with food is because we eat most foods with enough frequency that we assume that we all know what we like. Even if you love the Dark Knight, even if you are convinced it's the best movie ever (its not) you don't watch it with nearly the frequency you eat bacon, pasta or cake. If it's one of those unusual foods that taste like crap but people seem to like, like pate or caviar, people are much more likely to pull the "you were wrong before, try it and you'll really like it" card.
BRING BACK PEEPSHOW DAVID!
I like the phrase 'fundemental facisum of teh human soul'
Don't want to be too serious about one of Mitchell's rants, but...
There does seem to be a legitimate difference between 'tastes' which effect other people (like politics) and ones which don't.
There is also a difference between learned and (more or less) innate preferences.
Finally and importantly, for some differences in taste preferences we can understand why there is variation... which means I don't think people claiming to like bell peppers are lying (probably a different receptor molecule)
Politics is not really a subjective issue, films and books are more subjective but one can argue for their individual merit, whereas with food it depends on what your tastebuds happen to enjoy. In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I really don't like pizza (cue the shock and horror) x)
Yes, I have more respect for someone who makes their choices on food by taste than religion.
Only David can make the word "masticating" sexy.
Bacon is only delicious when shatteringly crisp, undercooked(read bendable) bacon is gross and wrapped bacon is always soggy and an egregious offense. Rhubarb however is a bittersweet delight best served thinly sliced and well sugared in a proper crumble. A perfect summer dessert, I apologize if you have been served some rhubarb has been mistreated before being served to you or anyone else.
Evelyn Waugh, most famous for "Brideshead Revisited".
0:50 He's saying Evelyn Waugh, not "Evil in War" 😉
Please go out and purchase a copy of David's new Autobiography, "Bacon and Sex"