The South Ferry inner loop platform was actually walled off except where the center doors would land. The 5 still uses the inner loop when it terminates at Bowling Green on evenings and weekends. The MTA won't implement any permanent out of system transfers except for the one between Lexington Avenue 59th Street and Lexington Avenue 63rd Street. They are only used when particular lines or stations are out of service.
They had that before between Bowling Green and South Ferry, but it was discontinued due to low ridership and operational troubles. If anything, people are fine walking between the two stations, but a direct in-system transfer between Bowling Green and Whitehall Street on the Broadway Line would be a much better idea.
When the shuttle was running, doors in the front car (or front two cars) of Brooklyn-bound trains would open on both sides of the train, allowing cross-platform transfers to the South Ferry shuttle. There was no equivalent northbound.
I think I rode the *South Ferry Shuttle* in January 1973 (my first ride on NYC Subway), going from Grand Central to Staten Island Ferry. At age 12 then, I did not know that "South" is the name of a street, but of course I knew why a station was named "Ferry".
Yes I agree. A least have some connection to all these stations since they are so close to each other. It would be very convenient for people who may want to travel up the west side from the east side really fast. Now this is a little off topic, but it’s relative red Wall Station Jamaica Van Wyck really needs another stairwell to the platform. I had no idea of the inconvenience of that Station.
As a kid in the 70s i visited the Bowling Green station often and was in AWE at how clean and beautiful it was compared to the rest of the system. Of course this was an isolated instance as the rest of the system NEVER got any better.
Just have the 5 stop at the outer loop when in terminates at Bowling Green. Actually, terminate all 5s at Bowling Green. That eliminates Rogers Junction issues. For replacement service in Brooklyn, have the 3 and 4 run as normal, and add additional 2 service where possible that would short turn at Nevins Street Lower Level or Atlantic or Wall St
@@tysonstransitcam2190 That would be too redundant compared to just walking the block between the two stations. Not to mention that projected ridership between Bowling Green and South Ferry would be much low so it won’t be worth the effort. Thus, those evening and weekend 5 trains should continue to pass through South Ferry with no passenger pickups and drop offs. Terminating all 5 train at Bowling Green would actually make 4 train service worse due to delays coming from having 5 trains discharge there (no wonder they extended midday service to Brooklyn). If anything,5 trains should no longer terminate in Manhattan. All daytime and weekend 5 trains should be routed to Utica Avenue with the 4 train, with overnight service terminating at 149th Street-Grand Concourse. 2 train service on the entire route would be increased to make up for the loss of 5 train service to Flatbush Avenue.
@@TheRailLeaguer Here's the thing though. If the 5 is terminated at BG anyway it might as well use the existing tracks and terminate at SF to get out of the way of those 4 trains. Just that one step would clear Rogers Junction too
@@tysonstransitcam2190 It wouldn’t even do anything since you will have delays at Bowling Green (either from discharging passengers or forcing riders in the back to walk up to the first five cars). Not to mention that service to South Ferry will be very very lightly utilized. It’s too redundant since people can just walk over there (especially since I’m proposing a in-system transfer passageway between Bowling Green and Whitehall Street). Besides, what’s wrong with rerouting all 5 trains to Utica Avenue? That would totally clear things up without sacrificing Brooklyn service on Lexington Avenue. I’m wondering if you think the midday extension of the 5 train to Brooklyn should’ve never happened. As for night service to 149th Street, this would allow for the late night transfer to the 4 train and given that service would be running every 20 minutes, this should give some breathing room to allow for trains to switch onto the middle track without interfering with 4 train service.
The Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to happen I could tell you that now straight up. South Bronx has no third Ave Elevated line at all every sence they torn down in 1973 1974 . That line should of never been tairing down in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the Thrid Avenue Elevated line. The 2 5 8 elevated lines has the same exact metal steel structures. The old president Robert mosses could not stand no extra elevated lines. Like the mayor Eric Adams said south Bronx definitely needs Transportation over there. i have the article right in my house. Eric Adams said that before he got worned in the office last year. it would be nice if you do the vid about the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
The south Bronx is definitely completely dead with out the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line. Alots of people are still processing about the 3rd Avenue Elevated line nonstop .
if they never tairing down this 3rd Avenue Elevated line down the R62AS would of definitely fit on the the 8 3rd Ave Elevated line to replace all the R12 R14s. They was not thinking properly.
You know how you use brand new subway in alot your videos, i think it would be interesting to see how you would expand the system using the website or maybe even seeing how you redesign the system layout
What are your thoughts about interlining the 1 and the 6, at least with some trains, utilizing the line between Brooklyn Bridge and Bowling Green, and the South Ferry loop?
Did you see the map there and how tight that loop is? Stopping there would be dangerous to boarding and disembarking passengers. At the very least you'll need announcements saying "Watch your step! Mind the gap."
I remember when the #5 trains ( evenings and weekends) and #6 trains (late nights) would run to South Ferry when the Shuttle didn't run at these times back in the day.
Court Square/Queens Plaza/Queensboro Plaza/Queensbridge are so frustrating. You catch an R in the city and want to change to the 7 and... oops, that's not fun. The F is the easiest train for picking up the UES Q train, but there's no connection. And the poor G never meets half the lines around here. I've never seen any serious proposal to fix it.
If anything, i think they should let the south ferry outer loop be in use by the 6, as it has gap fillers to accommodate all doors when hurricane sandy hit, walking between cars was an issue but im sure the MTA can solve that issue
That would be completely impractical since the express tracks are already at capacity and the South Ferry Loop is redundant to other nearby stations in the area.
I wonder how possible it is to connect a Manhattan train station to Staten Island? Staten Island has its own little lane but it’d be cool if that connected to say south ferry
There’s already a transfer between the 1 and the R train at South Ferry, which practically serves the same areas. However noting stopping them from building a transfer passageway between the Whitehall Street and Bowling Green Stations, which essentially gives you a transfer between the 4 and 5 routes as well as the 1 and the R trains without negatively impacting Brooklyn service (Bowling Green is a bit of a bottleneck itself). It also provides another outlet into Brooklyn in case the Joralemon Street Tunnel is closed.
@@TheRailLeaguer The Joralemon Tunnel is what the 4/5 goes under, do you mean if the Montague Tunnel is closed? That's what the R goes under and what the 4/5 would compensate for. But yes, you're right. Also about them going to the same areas, the 4/5 go to Grand Central, UES, and East Harlem and the R/W don't, and you can't get to those areas via the 2/3, the other main transfer for the 1. Also the 4/5 are some of the fastest trains in the system, and the R/W are some of the slowest, and provide express service on Flatbush/New Lots lines in Bklyn. Would be quite helpful from South Ferry. Also the 1 currently has no direct transfer to the 4/5, and all 3 of those lines are some of the most used in the system, so for those reasons this is a golden opportunity waiting to happen.
@@lightning77125 Yes, but the Whitehall-Bowling Green transfer passageway is to provide an alternative in the event one of those tunnels is closed off. This is something that could've been beneficial during Sandy rehab work in the Montague Street Tunnel, and we did get a bit of a glimpse of what could be possible during the Clark Street Tunnel weekend work, when 2 trains were terminating at South Ferry for about 56 weekends. In short, this is also for system redundancy. Funny thing is that this weekend, the Joralemon Street Tunnel is closed for weekend work once more, with 4 trains terminating at Bowling Green. If that transfer were built, those 4 train riders would have another alternative to Brooklyn that doesn't involve transferring at Fulton Street. As for the same areas, I was referring to Brooklyn, specifically in Downtown Brooklyn, which is a busy area, but otherwise, the 4/5, and R/W serve the same busy area in Lower Manhattan.
Honestly, that shuttle was totally useless as the ferry terminal is just a short walk from the Bowling Green station and a commuter van follows its route.
Also make a video of bringing back the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back also . South Bronx is definitely suffering without the 3rd Avenue Elevated line . Nothing cannot replace or run over the 3rd Avenue Elevated line anymore. No matter how many buses running over there it's completely dead.
They still have peaces of the 3rd Ave Elevated line at Gun Hill Road 🛣️ Bronx right under neath the 2 5 trains 🚃. However they are definitely gonna tair down the old houses and rebuilding new affordable houses and more.
5 trains are already using the loop to turn around during evenings and weekends, when trains terminate at Bowling Green (midday service no longer terminates there). From there the trains traverse the loop with no passengers and no stopping. Passengers needing to go to South Ferry can walk to the ferry terminal, not like its a bad thing since it's just a stones throw away.
Except for the elderly. That walk is pain especially in bad weather! Had to walk it for weeks after 9/11. Minor inconvenience but an inconvenience nonetheless.
@@lorismith38 It’s something they too can handle, though I do recommend connecting Bowling Green to Whitehall Street on the R train. That way, anyone (including an elderly person) can walk through the Whitehall Street station to get to South Ferry on the 1 train. No need for a shuttle.
I remember the Shuttle when I was a foot messenger. I never used it but I did see it every time I was sent down to Bowling Green.
Ah, getting ever closer (maybe) to a Mystical Station installment about the original South Ferry station 🙂
Damn, you’re catching on to my plans 😅
Discontinued the shuttle only a month after I was born! I always wondered the history behind the loops at Bowling Green/South Ferry.
The South Ferry inner loop platform was actually walled off except where the center doors would land. The 5 still uses the inner loop when it terminates at Bowling Green on evenings and weekends. The MTA won't implement any permanent out of system transfers except for the one between Lexington Avenue 59th Street and Lexington Avenue 63rd Street. They are only used when particular lines or stations are out of service.
Hey, all of the sudden thinking about it just makes soo much sense, a shuttle to south ferry.
They had that before between Bowling Green and South Ferry, but it was discontinued due to low ridership and operational troubles. If anything, people are fine walking between the two stations, but a direct in-system transfer between Bowling Green and Whitehall Street on the Broadway Line would be a much better idea.
@@TheRailLeaguer Exactly 💯% right it would look perfect for white hall street to connect with Boiling green 💚.
When the shuttle was running, doors in the front car (or front two cars) of Brooklyn-bound trains would open on both sides of the train, allowing cross-platform transfers to the South Ferry shuttle. There was no equivalent northbound.
This is your best series, IMHO. Keep up the good work!
I think I rode the *South Ferry Shuttle* in January 1973 (my first ride on NYC Subway), going from Grand Central to Staten Island Ferry.
At age 12 then, I did not know that "South" is the name of a street, but of course I knew why a station was named "Ferry".
Yes I agree. A least have some connection to all these stations since they are so close to each other. It would be very convenient for people who may want to travel up the west side from the east side really fast.
Now this is a little off topic, but it’s relative red Wall Station Jamaica Van Wyck really needs another stairwell to the platform. I had no idea of the inconvenience of that Station.
Could you do the culver shuttle next? It would be very interesting to see an in depth video about it.
What about the New Lots Shuttle
Or Grand Street Shuttle
New Lots shuttle?? Please tell me more!!!
As a kid in the 70s i visited the Bowling Green station often and was in AWE at how clean and beautiful it was compared to the rest of the system. Of course this was an isolated instance as the rest of the system NEVER got any better.
If they can't build a tunnel connect Bowling Green with South Ferry/Whitehall, the least they could do is make it an out of system transfer.
Just have the 5 stop at the outer loop when in terminates at Bowling Green. Actually, terminate all 5s at Bowling Green. That eliminates Rogers Junction issues. For replacement service in Brooklyn, have the 3 and 4 run as normal, and add additional 2 service where possible that would short turn at Nevins Street Lower Level or Atlantic or Wall St
@@tysonstransitcam2190 That would be too redundant compared to just walking the block between the two stations. Not to mention that projected ridership between Bowling Green and South Ferry would be much low so it won’t be worth the effort. Thus, those evening and weekend 5 trains should continue to pass through South Ferry with no passenger pickups and drop offs.
Terminating all 5 train at Bowling Green would actually make 4 train service worse due to delays coming from having 5 trains discharge there (no wonder they extended midday service to Brooklyn). If anything,5 trains should no longer terminate in Manhattan. All daytime and weekend 5 trains should be routed to Utica Avenue with the 4 train, with overnight service terminating at 149th Street-Grand Concourse. 2 train service on the entire route would be increased to make up for the loss of 5 train service to Flatbush Avenue.
@@TheRailLeaguer Here's the thing though. If the 5 is terminated at BG anyway it might as well use the existing tracks and terminate at SF to get out of the way of those 4 trains. Just that one step would clear Rogers Junction too
Also, why would you terminate it overnight at 149-GC. At that point you might as well run the entire route because the Dyre shuttle is still running.
@@tysonstransitcam2190 It wouldn’t even do anything since you will have delays at Bowling Green (either from discharging passengers or forcing riders in the back to walk up to the first five cars). Not to mention that service to South Ferry will be very very lightly utilized. It’s too redundant since people can just walk over there (especially since I’m proposing a in-system transfer passageway between Bowling Green and Whitehall Street).
Besides, what’s wrong with rerouting all 5 trains to Utica Avenue? That would totally clear things up without sacrificing Brooklyn service on Lexington Avenue. I’m wondering if you think the midday extension of the 5 train to Brooklyn should’ve never happened.
As for night service to 149th Street, this would allow for the late night transfer to the 4 train and given that service would be running every 20 minutes, this should give some breathing room to allow for trains to switch onto the middle track without interfering with 4 train service.
The MTA should make the South Station and Bowling Green one station
Well they could do that with a free transfer passageway between Bowling Green and Whitehall Street.
@@TheRailLeaguer Exactly 💯% right like they did before when the 1 9 trains used to run on the old south Ferry loop .
There's a South Station in Boston.... 😉
How is that possible Miguel?
@@historyisthebestmyfans2094 just demolish the barriers underground and rebuild, just like Minecraft
I remember taking it to the south ferry towards the Staten Island ferry it consisted two cars yeah it stopped in 77
Could you make a vid about the third ave el? Nice vid.
The Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to happen I could tell you that now straight up. South Bronx has no third Ave Elevated line at all every sence they torn down in 1973 1974 . That line should of never been tairing down in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the Thrid Avenue Elevated line. The 2 5 8 elevated lines has the same exact metal steel structures. The old president Robert mosses could not stand no extra elevated lines. Like the mayor Eric Adams said south Bronx definitely needs Transportation over there. i have the article right in my house. Eric Adams said that before he got worned in the office last year. it would be nice if you do the vid about the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
The south Bronx is definitely completely dead with out the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line. Alots of people are still processing about the 3rd Avenue Elevated line nonstop .
if they never tairing down this 3rd Avenue Elevated line down the R62AS would of definitely fit on the the 8 3rd Ave Elevated line to replace all the R12 R14s. They was not thinking properly.
You know how you use brand new subway in alot your videos, i think it would be interesting to see how you would expand the system using the website or maybe even seeing how you redesign the system layout
What are your thoughts about interlining the 1 and the 6, at least with some trains, utilizing the line between Brooklyn Bridge and Bowling Green, and the South Ferry loop?
Did you see the map there and how tight that loop is? Stopping there would be dangerous to boarding and disembarking passengers. At the very least you'll need announcements saying "Watch your step! Mind the gap."
The curvature of the loops would slow down both lines.
Also the South Ferry outer loop is used for off peak storage of 1 trains.
Redundant and impractical.
No just no. That’s just BEYOND CURSED
2:37 bro said Wsp guys😂
Yeah do history on old subway lines
I remember when the #5 trains ( evenings and weekends) and #6 trains (late nights) would run to South Ferry when the Shuttle didn't run at these times back in the day.
The lack of connection at Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza is insane.
Queens Plaza is a distance to Queensboro Plaza
It should be a free transfer
@@historyisthebestmyfans2094 no it’s not
If you link up the two Queens Plazas you may as well throw in 21st Street-Queensbridge also…same general area and also within walking distance.
Nahh 21st and the bridge is too far to link with both plazas together. Like come on mta haven't even linked livonia and Junius stations together yet
Not really. 21 St is a considerable walking distance from QNS/QNSBRO PLZ
Super interesting video. Keep up the good work
Great Video.
Court Square/Queens Plaza/Queensboro Plaza/Queensbridge are so frustrating. You catch an R in the city and want to change to the 7 and... oops, that's not fun. The F is the easiest train for picking up the UES Q train, but there's no connection. And the poor G never meets half the lines around here. I've never seen any serious proposal to fix it.
G does have options at court square. 7 to queensboro e and m to queens plaza. Even though its a 10-15 min walk to 21st and the bridge
Just let the G run to 71st - Continental OR 179 St/Hillside Ave station
@@joshuaedwards5822 or to the Bronx or LGA
When I’m watching this has 999 views and 69 likes ☠️
A rare Peter Griffin sighting at 1:30
Could you do a video on the broad channel station from 1970 where you had to pay extra
I remember that. Crazy.
If anything, i think they should let the south ferry outer loop be in use by the 6, as it has gap fillers to accommodate all doors when hurricane sandy hit, walking between cars was an issue but im sure the MTA can solve that issue
That would be completely impractical since the express tracks are already at capacity and the South Ferry Loop is redundant to other nearby stations in the area.
The MTA should make south ferry and bowling green,Whitehall street to passageway 1/4/5/R/W
I wonder how possible it is to connect a Manhattan train station to Staten Island? Staten Island has its own little lane but it’d be cool if that connected to say south ferry
MAKE A TALES FROM THE SUBWAY VIDEO ON THE CULVER SHUTTLE
somtimes i wish i was in NYC right now
If it was still around it would be a Red S
very pro video mystic
Hi Mystic😀😀😀
Hi tj
Hi Mystic😀😀😀
Hi @TJ Railfan
@@MysticTransit there’s a special vintage 2009 museum set that I wanna share with BVEYard. Can u accept my friend request?
@@MysticTransit hillo
It would be handy to have a 1-4/5 transfer.
There’s already a transfer between the 1 and the R train at South Ferry, which practically serves the same areas. However noting stopping them from building a transfer passageway between the Whitehall Street and Bowling Green Stations, which essentially gives you a transfer between the 4 and 5 routes as well as the 1 and the R trains without negatively impacting Brooklyn service (Bowling Green is a bit of a bottleneck itself). It also provides another outlet into Brooklyn in case the Joralemon Street Tunnel is closed.
@@TheRailLeaguer The Joralemon Tunnel is what the 4/5 goes under, do you mean if the Montague Tunnel is closed? That's what the R goes under and what the 4/5 would compensate for. But yes, you're right. Also about them going to the same areas, the 4/5 go to Grand Central, UES, and East Harlem and the R/W don't, and you can't get to those areas via the 2/3, the other main transfer for the 1. Also the 4/5 are some of the fastest trains in the system, and the R/W are some of the slowest, and provide express service on Flatbush/New Lots lines in Bklyn. Would be quite helpful from South Ferry. Also the 1 currently has no direct transfer to the 4/5, and all 3 of those lines are some of the most used in the system, so for those reasons this is a golden opportunity waiting to happen.
@@lightning77125 Yes, but the Whitehall-Bowling Green transfer passageway is to provide an alternative in the event one of those tunnels is closed off. This is something that could've been beneficial during Sandy rehab work in the Montague Street Tunnel, and we did get a bit of a glimpse of what could be possible during the Clark Street Tunnel weekend work, when 2 trains were terminating at South Ferry for about 56 weekends. In short, this is also for system redundancy. Funny thing is that this weekend, the Joralemon Street Tunnel is closed for weekend work once more, with 4 trains terminating at Bowling Green. If that transfer were built, those 4 train riders would have another alternative to Brooklyn that doesn't involve transferring at Fulton Street.
As for the same areas, I was referring to Brooklyn, specifically in Downtown Brooklyn, which is a busy area, but otherwise, the 4/5, and R/W serve the same busy area in Lower Manhattan.
0:50 funny number
Hey after Gravesend 86th Street N Train Station what is the next least usted station?
Honestly, that shuttle was totally useless as the ferry terminal is just a short walk from the Bowling Green station and a commuter van follows its route.
Oh, so it was a platform. Never knew 😂😅
ayeeee let's goo
Hey I made a video suggestion about bringing back the Myrtle Ave Elevated line on your discord server. Can you check it out please!
Also make a video of bringing back the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back also . South Bronx is definitely suffering without the 3rd Avenue Elevated line . Nothing cannot replace or run over the 3rd Avenue Elevated line anymore. No matter how many buses running over there it's completely dead.
They still have peaces of the 3rd Ave Elevated line at Gun Hill Road 🛣️ Bronx right under neath the 2 5 trains 🚃. However they are definitely gonna tair down the old houses and rebuilding new affordable houses and more.
This is cool.
I’ve seen a weird thing that looks like a platform that is useless
what is the song to your intro
V line
2:37 - 2:38
What tunnel ?
I like you
2
Easier solution just reopen the loop and turn the 5 trains there during weekends and mid days.
5 trains are already using the loop to turn around during evenings and weekends, when trains terminate at Bowling Green (midday service no longer terminates there). From there the trains traverse the loop with no passengers and no stopping. Passengers needing to go to South Ferry can walk to the ferry terminal, not like its a bad thing since it's just a stones throw away.
Except for the elderly. That walk is pain especially in bad weather! Had to walk it for weeks after 9/11. Minor inconvenience but an inconvenience nonetheless.
@@lorismith38 It’s something they too can handle, though I do recommend connecting Bowling Green to Whitehall Street on the R train. That way, anyone (including an elderly person) can walk through the Whitehall Street station to get to South Ferry on the 1 train. No need for a shuttle.
Tbh it would have been better if I voiced it
Why?
@@rudolphguarnacci197 You'll see
So