The game corner... The stuff you buy there is hella overpriced (as seen when you try to sell its dirt cheap but costs easily 100x or more) Pokemon got casinos right at least
@@mistercbody 100% i think that the thing that most needs investigating is bst of some rare mons, ie sudowoodo, farfetchd, chimecho, etc. basically rare pokemon that are horrible, economics doesn’t help much with this, but averaging encounter rates and bst for the time of the game could be very interesting if that doesn’t work just do the rse trades they’re so bad
Clearly the exceptional efficiency of fresh water and lemonade for healing pokemon proves that most pokemon are chronically dehydrated and have scurvy.
I personally think it's a fair nerf. 200HP heal basically puts Max Potion in obsolete tier because not many pokemons have more than 200HP during your normal playthrough.
Pure hp per dollar isn't fair to the full restore. The entire point of them is to be a max potion PLUS a full heal. They're for much more specific scenarios, not just low health.
@tritojean7549 The point is to be turn efficient mid battle, that's why it is expensive. Getting a status heal and full hp on the same turn is very powerful. It's an endgame potion anyways, so it doesn't really need to be cost efficient, you're probably already in a comfortable position to shell out the cash for a handful of them.
@@tritojean7549 SO imagine you got knock to 1 Hp by a random attack and also got paralyze then if you only use Max Potion then you would still be paralyze so you try to use a full heal but then the opponent get another turn to get you to low HP again which you then heal back but then it use a devastating status and you just keep healing in a loop
Moo Moo milk and Full Restores are clearly outlier runs, maybe programming a bot to run each Elite 4 run 1000 times for each healing item would be the best way to eliminate variations
Only stock-holder elites with bank accounts allowed to hold more than 999,999p¥ can buy bikes. Everyone else will never be able to afford it without high interest financing.
Honestly, shout out to fresh water, soda pop, and lemonade. Cheap to buy while still healing you for good amount of hp. The only bad thing is that most of the time, you can’t buy in bulk, meaning you’ll have to spam pick each time you want a good amount of them.
Pretty cool in FRLG you can grab em in bulk from the merchant on 2 island, but you gotta beat the E4 once in order for that, so unfortunately didn’t apply to this specific scenario for me
Pre nerf fresh water and soda pop were such a steal and moomoo milk is still fantastic even today. In gens 3 through 5 I would stock up enough to last me until I could switch to hyper potions and it saved so much money for other things especially full heals and revives.
The best strategy is having a few of each, using the smaller ones outside of battle and saving the largest for the battles. If your Snorlax has 315 HP and you're at 10, using a Max Potion is much more efficient than using 2 turns to use Hyper potions or moomoo milk. And if he is paralyzed as well I will of course use a full restore. The problem comes with trying to use only one item for everything. If your Charizard got hit for 90 HP and you want to heal it before the next fight, using a full restore is much less efficient than using 5 potions now that time isn't a problem.
This is the best approach and the one i follow. I never buy hyper, max potions, or full restores as the ones found incidentally are usually enough. I might buy 1-2 max revives. Otherwise its water, lemonade, and normal potions. With 1-5 regular revive unless im doing a challenge run.
If your goal is to waste time it's true, but Pokemon games are easy and money is infinite. Literally the best strategy it to use full restores and max revives only.
@@Voliharmin maybe but that ignores completely the point of the video that assumes money is limited. This is not a speedrun guide, it's an analysis video.
@@AgusSkywalker Fair. But resources in speedruns are very limited and shopping is highly optimized, this analysis is not that far from speedrunning. Also money is only limited by time spent on getting it.
No. In gen5 onwards you can abuse low level sturdy Pokémon and potions to drain pp far more efficiently. In fact due to this you can beat the elite 4 in oras with 2 level 1 Pokémon using a similar strategy.
you forgot the biggest factor to full restores, they take 1 turn for a complete heal [including status conditions] where as using a max potion or a moo moo milk with a full heal would take way longer. Personally i think this deserves a s retest only with both healing and full heals, rather then just healing alone because remember the old saying "time is money and you don't have a lot of it."
The most use full restores have is when you're status'd and low HP At most you should need like 4 max in your bag at a time lol Edit: surprised you didn't mention anything about the gen 7 hyper potion nerf or how moomoo milk is pretty easily available in some games like X/Y
Yeah. That can save you Revive usage at times, but you don't need that more. This (and the PokeBall video, maybe) could benefit from a Gen 7+ remake, yeah
Even as a Kid I always thought Max Potions and Full Restores were scams. I always just stocked up on Hyper Potions and Full Heals. Since in a normal playthrough it's rare you'll get Pokemon with over 200 HP (At least back when Hypers healed that much) by the end of the game. Plus, combining the two only works in Battles as an efficient thing, and since I prefer to heal outside of battle only, I've never found much use for them. If you Full Restore for just HP, you're losing a huge chunk of value, and same if you use it for just Status or Status + a small heal.
Keep in mind this: In sword and shield oran berries are 80 pokedollars and heal 10. 2 oran berries costs 160 to heal 20, the same amount THAT A POTION HEALS FOR 200
@@nit11 welcome to the channel membership club, much appreciated! And thanks for the suggestion, i may look deeper into the general efficiency of items. It’d be hard to quantify since a lot of the game’s random, so one run (or even just 1 battle from 1 run) wouldn’t be the most accurate indicator of what works.. kinda similar to this video, but it adds another element when you add in the combination factor
One thing not covered… you can buy potions in bulk, but in most games vending machines sell Water, Soda, Lemonade & Milk one at a time. A couple games do have places to buy in bulk, such as a in ORAS buying half a dozen Soda at a time… but thats still slower than a single purchase of 999 at the Mart.
Yup, towards the back end of this video I mentioned how you can get moo moo milk(and the other heals) from the guy on 2 Island, but there’s some prerequisites before you have access to it, so it definitely would take longer to have to buy 1 at a time until you unlock them
Thats why you should mix the heals that you use. All you'll need are revives, full heals and lemonades. investing all your pokedollars in one type of heal item is a bad choice :b
This is probably the worst way to go about this. If you switched the Hyper Potion and Full Restore runs, the results would look completely different. A better way would have been this: Go through the Elite 4 a couple of times with no healing in battle. In between battles you check how many items it would take of each kind to heal up to full. This doesn't factor in convenience in battle (like Full Restores healing status or Fresh Water healing way to little to be useful), but it eliminates randomness between runs.
Actually, applying economics/finance to the things i seen you do in Pokemon (just been watching the SCAM series and i think ill sub) is the way to engage and even coach people (your viewers) into doing it IRL. Provides a relatable basis to explain the concepts, logic and arithmetical formulas. Cost per performance, cost efficiency, the cost vs benefit of convenience, etc.
I honestly didn’t really think of it that way lol but it’s a great point.. maybe there are some other things throughout the games I can use to explain some other simple financial / economic principles. Could be interesting🤔
@@mistercbody Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything i can remember, at least up to Gen III (which is all I've played, besides fangames like Reborn, Uranium, Insurgence, or Rejuvenation). Since heals, poke balls and repels are all the buyables that you get an effect from during a playthtrough besides like TMs, Vitamins (Carbos, etc) or Pokémon (you could maybe do something with the Game Corner prizes in FRLG and other games as in benefit/hours spent on grinding money (consider you are at the very end of the game b4 the Elite 4 and using the most time/money efficient area available to VS Seeker, go to a heal spot, etc) considering how strong the Pokémon are or how beneficial TMs and other stuff you can get there are. This will likely need some consultancy with someone who fully understands Pokémon playthtroughs to evaluate the Pokémon, TMs or whatever. Could maybe do something with the Vitamins and EV yields in the most efficient Pokémon giving those EVs, comparing the money grind Vs wild battle grind for the same EVs? There's maybe ways to do it without actually playing, or as i seen someone say, have a bot do it for you and collect the data. Hopefully you can do #2 since having some actual data is much better than just some mathematical modeling (which you could do anyway and back up with data collected with the bot). TMs would be different after Gen 5 due to them being reusable by then.
Honestly, I think a better way to test the Efficiency part of healing, would be to only heal in battle. Mandatory healing to full before the fight is a lot of waste for expensive potions whose main advantage is to save you turns. By only healing in battle, you would still waste more hp with the expensive heals but need way less of them
Super psyched to see this channel recommended; lots of fun stuff. The game corner video was great. I'd love to see the pokeball video done with a larger sample size, too!
I thought the content was good. My only thought was that to better combat the rng you should've done multiple runs of each category to get a better cost average. I know each runs amounts to actual irl money you donated so to keep it manageable either the highest cost per category or just the first run per could be the one used for the donation. I just think only doing one run per category hurts the overall data. But you did talk about that at the end of the vide. Overall I think you did a good job and will be going to watch other videos later today.
Here is the thing, full restores also heal any statue as well as hp, so you dont need to use full heals or any of the specific stat heals. So maybe which status heal is the bigger scam? (Edit) at the end you did mention the fully heal side of for restore, but still want to k ow whoch status heal is the best for price.
Awakening is almost never worth it (owing to several titles having reusable sources of sleep removal), and any gen3+ title depends on access to the status recovery berries and the ability to grow more to compare to status recovery. That said, Full Heal is rarely worth the cost outside of bag space concerns, and if you're recovering multiple status at once mid-fight (like confusion plus burn/sleep/poison/paralyze/freeze)
This highlights to me more that FRLG elite 4 at least really didn't make enough use of statuses to make status recovery items worth it. The times I needed the most status healing were on long routes with lots of fairly weak trainers but who just wear your team down over the course of travelling through it.
I think an important thing to remember is when you get access to each option. There is likely a point where supers are a bit more efficient but as soon as the drinks get opened up, they die.
Full restores might not be the most efficient, but they are the best answer to burn and poison on high hp pokemon. The only other options is a full heal, and max potion wasting 2 moves, or revive and max potion, also wastes 2 moves. There is a max revive, but you can't buy those so it's a moot point. I'd normally have a few full restores. A bit more max potions for battles. And the rest hyper potions for out of battle heals.
One HUGE problem is that, in most games, the drinks like soda and moomoo milk can't be bought from traditional merchants and so you have to buy them like one at a time from a vending machine and wait for the "animation" every time. It's just a huge waste of time trying to buy a large amount of them.
the soft drinks are way better to buy in bulk to use outside of battle. in-battle, you’re better off using hyper potions as 200 hp is usually enough to top off most pokemon or at least get close to topping off. unless you’re running really high level pokemon for a post-game elite four run or using a really bulky pokemon like a snorlax or blissey, max potions probably won’t be necessary.
Yeah, works as a taste of the problem, but everything potions is far more complicated than the rest. Repels and Pokeballs are a fixed price for a fixed effect, but the same cant be said for potion types. Sure, the effects are "fixed", but the situations in which you use them are not. 20 hp means something very different at lvls 5, 25, and 50+, going from effective, to preemptive, to post battle cleanup. That issue only scales as you get into more advanced healing potions. Full restores have one advantage over hypers in the long term, and that is 2 effects for a single turn. Full restores are a sort of safety net that lets you push status problems to their limit before using, and are the key to avoiding revival methods. You dont need to instantly heal your toxic poison the moment it is applied if you would just take more damage than you healed from the following attack, instead waiting until the combination of chip and potential incoming damage is a threat and clearing both at once. The less hp your healing target has as a max, the more hp is wasted in "efficiency" which is only one of many reasons the different potion tiers are locked behind different gym badges. Rich Kids using full restores on pokemon less than lvl 25 is a power play for a reason; the cost per hp is so high no normal trainer would have enough to buy a stockpile of full restores at such an early part of their journey when the post battle rewards are so low. The actual debate at the time of the elite 4 is between hypers, max, and full restores. Hypers healing 200 hp when only inherently bulky pokemon are above that number immediately outclass max potions who will heal the same amount for more money, but the added benefit from full restores makes them an actual competitor who's use overall shines when a status is added into the mix. Chip damage from status means you have to heal sooner, wasting more hp from hypers and getting a chip damage penalty after the fact, but on a full restore, you can wait until you would get the most bang for your buck the pokemon in question would allow. By the time 200 hp is a serious consideration for cost per hp gained, vending machine drinks become irrelevant beyond being better options for post-battle cleanup than their basic potion counterparts. If vending machine drinks are part of the equation, we have to be talking about an earlier part of the game (at least most of the time) than the elite 4 who usually sits at around lvl 75, only going lower in relation to the length of the post-game story. No, with something as complicated as potions, the smallest acceptable sample size is (n+1) full game runs, where n=the number of unique items tested. Control (the +1) is a run where everything is available, utilizing smaller heals between battles to top yourself up to reduce cost per hp gained overflows, and each individual tally towards n is restricting yourself to a single item even between battles. Revives can still be allowed because they serve a different function (as long as their use isnt abused in a sort of "i would get more health out of letting my pokemon die and reviving them to 50% than i would giving them a potion now before they die"), but you need to isolate each potion type as much as possible for a longer period of time to get a more conclusive data set. My hypothesis is that the control set will come out ahead on all fronts as you use what is best for each scenario instead of being forced to over or under invest into each potion, and all of that is before using a running total of income vs expense, with runs of exclusively higher tier potions requiring cheating past the income and story barriers to properly test. No matter how you go about the (n+1), you need to go out of your way to make each run as similar as possible. They wont be exact clones, as there is too much RNG in place, even for finding and using the same types of pokemon who will have different inherent stats, but there are steps you can talk to minimize uniqueness. Testing to the average is the only way to account for RNG, but that increases the time investment.
This is one of the few games where I like food items doing healing.... You also gotta cover slow poke tails btw in gen 1 I'd always max out vending machine drinks as soon as they're unlocked. I like saving money even when I'm rich. But after using so many lemonades, it feels like I'm spraying cancer juice whenever I have to switch to the mass produced chem potions. I don't think I ever bought Max Potions. Maybe my first run before I knew better or something. Even as a like 8 year old, I could tell certain items were a scam. Same with Full Restore and the item named similar to it. I used it so frequently I don't even know the name. In a pinch when I needed to mass buy items (vending machines are 1 by 1) I think flying to cinnebar island or something had the best value potions. As I get older though my time is more valuable than pokebux. So buying the expensive potions right at the elite 4 isn't as bad as it used to be. "Wasting" money on repels also isn't really wasted money because it saves a ton of time. Also it's just straight up cheaper in the long run because that time wasted on zubats can be spent on elite4 which makes them pay for themselves. Anyway even in games where you do go with potions, it's still worth it to get lemonades. They're a separate healing item, so when you're mass clicking through potions without watching your count then you can always go to the lemonade as an emergency backup. Or maybe that's just me who looks quickly for anything with "potion" in its name and mass uses them without planning.
Hey dude, love your stuff! If I may make a suggestion: use a different sound for the number counter going up. The frequent sound of toxic just isnt pleasing on the ear in a 19 minute video. Keep it up!
thanks so much! And dude lol that’s so funny you said that because I literally was trying so hard to find a subtle sound for the counter(i spent like an hour looking through Pokemon sound libraries) and couldn’t figure anything out.. gotta do more digging for next time. I felt like a button sound effect was a little too much and then couldn’t find the bag tick sound :/
Trust me, an experienced player never thinks to use much less buy Full Restores until you reach the Elite 4 and thats because you no longer have any use for all the Prize Money you've been swallowing up every battle. I feel like in the later games this starts becoming a massive problem because you have so much of it in excess that you wonder what you even do with it all.
The way I buy things, I make sure I'm always topped off on specific items to a set amount. All balls go to 30; hyper, max, full to 10. Max out fresh waters, max out full heals, max out leppa berries. Buy 5 TMs (when applicable).
I think an interesting metric would be cost of potions spent over the actual HP healed. So, if you heal 120 HP using a single hyper potion, it comes down to 1200/120 = 10 pokedollars per HP, while using 3 fresh waters to heal the same amount comes down to 600/120 = 5 pokedollars per HP. Averaging that across multiple pokemon and battles could give a reliable efficiency of these items. To calculate combat efficiency, you could multiply the number by the number of potions used (and thus rounds wasted), which would come to 10 pokedollar-potion per HP for a hyper potion and 15 pokedollar-potions per HP for the fresh water in the aforementioned example.
Full Restores are basically a Full Heal and Max Potion combined together. When you look at the colors of the Max Potion(Blue) and Full Heal(Yellow) it make since that the Full Restore is Green. Also in Scarlet and Violet you don't even need to buy any of Potions often thanks to re-spawning Item spots. In Sun and Moon and games onward Fresh Waters heal 30 HP, While Soda Pops now heal 50 HP, and Lemonade's heal 70, and they also up the amount the Super Potion heal to 60 HP. And in order to heal a Max HP Chansey or Blissey if a Max Potion or Full Restore healed 416 HP would be 2 since Chansey Max HP is 704, While Blissey has 714 HP.
That's legitimately how I play in every game. Don't buy any healing item unitil I get Fresh Water access. Change to Lemonade/Moomoo Milk later (depending on availability.) Also, in BW2, you can get deals for your money. I lose most of it from that scammy Stone seller, but that's still nice I guess
You forgot about opportunity cost. Not only do i not have to think about how much HP a Full Restore heals, but it also removes status effects in a single turn. This vs having to use a potion and status remover on subsequent turns.
If we're purely talking about cost and not time, Meowth's ability is pickup, which has a 15% of giving you an oran berry in FRLG. This is a free 10HP heal. It costs $0 and is therefore the most efficient option. Hoenn, Sinnoh, and gen 4 Johto's berry planting also gives you effective access to unlimited sitrus berries. These heal 30hp flat in gen 3 and 25% of max in every gen after, making them wildly more efficient and still $0. The "heals but can cause confusion" berry line vary massively on how much they heal per gen, but are also a factor to consider. There's also the matter of convenience, which you do bring up. In FRLG you have to buy lemonades one at a time from one specific rooftop. It's really inefficient and I've never used them. In BW2 you are forced to interact with pokestar studios at least once. The first fan you get (an npc who will give you a reward after completing a movie) is a backpacker who will always give you 5 lemonades if you properly ended the movie. IIRC as you get more fans more than one can be a backpacker. I rarely leave virbank city with less than 80 lemonades. They're also free, as opposed to the fact you have to pay for each one in FRLG, which is another factor. Even so though, outside of the elite four, you can normally get by with an acquire-on-site mentality of just using whatever you found on the ground. Especially in a post-gen 5 world where important areas normally have healing NPCs in addition to the main pokemon center locations. Again, if not using items in battle, that totals out to one shopping trip where you buy at most 25 revives (5 potentially fainted pokemon * 5 consecutive battles= 25 revives), 30 full heals (6 potentially ailment inflicted pokemon), and 30-ish hyper potions (depending on max HP). Which you definitely have the funds for.
It’s kind of like how a 64OZ bottle of grape juice and a 16OZ bottle of grape juice can cost the same at the grocery store, but the smaller bottle costs more per ounce because of the convenience factor that people are willing to pay to have.
In my personal opinion, there’s a difference between what’s efficient in battle and out of battle. Out of battle the priority is how cheap can you heal. In battle the goal is to waste as few turns as possible. Full restores are great because they can cure, say, paralysis *and* bring you to full saving you a turn. But they’re not something to use every time you need healing.
Ironically, Moomoo Milks were my healing item of choice during my latest White 2 run. They're super easy to come by in that game, being sold at the Driftveil Market, alongside honestly the best revival option being the revival herbs, which heal for full HP with the only downside being that it damages your friendship with your pokemon.
If we are really going into the economics here... I would instead go through the cost efficiencies of each potion, both inside and outside of battle, and buying them in proportion to their use case scenarios. For example, when outside of battle, you can use as many healing items as you want, so you'd want to maximize the healing per cost factor. Which turns out to be that in 45% of possible health values under 601 to be straight Fresh waters. And the rest of the time combinations of either fresh water and soda pop or fresh water and lemonade. Which turns out that for 18.33% of scenarios to be soda pop and 36.67% of scenarios to be lemonade. For health values above 600, Max potions are always the most cost effective. None of the other healing items come into play outside of battle, mostly because they either have a lower cost efficiency than Fresh Water while also having 50 as a common factor, completely ruling them out since just using X fresh waters in place of said item would always be cheaper outside of battle, or they are so expensive that there is no point in ever using it. I mean, it doesn't matter if the potion doesn't have 50 as a common factor if it only heals for 20 and is more expensive than the fresh water... Health inefficiency doesn't matter, cost efficiency is what we are looking for. While inside of battle things get a lot more complicated. As guzzling 4-6 fresh waters to heal 200-300 health is almost certainly going to result in taking multiple turns of damage and in turn reducing the efficiency of said fresh waters, and if the opponent is dealing 50+ damage each turn then those fresh waters are completely wasted. So instead healing 80 health with a lemonade, 100 health with a Moo milk, or 200 health with a Hyper Potion, etc in one go is much more likely to be more efficient within a battle... but it all really depends on the context of the battle. Things really start to get complicated once you have to deal with opponents damaging you while you heal, so it becomes a game of defeating the opponent using the least amount of potions (money) possible. Which is a calculation that changes drastically from battle to battle. All depending on how much damage your opponent is dealing to you each turn, your maximum health, and how many turns you need to defeat the opponent. Of course other factors like the opponent using status moves and the like really complicate things even further... so using potions with optimal precision in battle can become really complicated really quickly. Just one move difference in defeating the enemy can make one potion more efficient than the other. Basically if you wanted to do it optimally, you'd have to either math it out for each battle how many potions and the optimal ones you'll need for each battle. Or you would take the average amount for your team's health and damage rates. Either way it's just... complicated lol
Honestly I wish you'd done this in a later generation, with the bitter herbs and 120 hp hyper potions. Max potions are a lot less of a scam with the closest equivalent being 80 less
Battle style "switch"? *CRINGE* Nah, I'm just a masochist. Gotta say these videos about scam items really speak to my inner need for max efficiency, and donating to ACS is another big bonus! Hope to see more like it going forward
I'm pretty sure the main point is to use healing items most effective for the situation. Only a little hurt, use fresh water, down by 200 hp, use hyper potion, pokemon is a 1 hp and has a status effect, use full restore
Dude is so wholesome! I can’t believe that you donate your own money to charity for a video that probably won’t earn you $60 back. Since I enjoyed the video and your thoughtfulness, I subbed to the channel. Looking forward to checking out your other videos
Really appreciate that and the kind words! I think the donations make the challenge more interesting & add a tiny amount of good to the world so i like to try to donate where i can, even though yeah I probably will not make that money back from this video lol
The stronger healing options, you're buying Action Economy. Going from one hp to full with one item can be a big deal. Between battles is where I am most likely to use the most efficient cures in terms of price.
I feel like there are several flaws in the methodology of this experiment. First, Full Restore and Max Potion are effectively equally effective unless you have to contend with poison, paralysis, burn, or freeze, and there should definitely be an opportunity cost against max potion or anything else if those status conditions are in play. There is also a strong case to have multiple types of healing items to balance the cost efficiency of out of battle fresh water heals with the healing effectiveness of hyper potions. Combined with a couple insurance full restores and full heals there is definitely a blended inventory that achieves the true best results for a first clear, something like 5 hypers, 2 full restores, 2 full heals, a batch of revives and “a case or two” of fresh waters is where I find myself in an E4 run.
@@mistercbody ur casino episode made me wish there was a casino and arcade rom hack where the only way u could get Pokémon was through gambling and mini games 😁
So for the sake of pokemon being played normally, youd get lemonades for in battle, and fresh water for out of battle, this will keep healing cheap and minimize health wasted
For most of the runs, the thing I learned most is that revives are expensive. Your best run was defined by a lack of need for revives, and the worst run is marred by a ton of them. Full restore/max potion just have a different role than the rest of the healing cast, and thats an amazing thing. Having a less efficient, maximum effect healing for spur of the moment combat is required in some situations, and an item that can fix status and heal in games without a poke flute in the same turn is needed many times in many runs of the elite 4 in other games. Good analysis, just kinda misses the mark on the usefulness of the test for me.
Pretty sure there was a more efficient way to do this that didn't involve you doing an elite four run. You take the average health of every pokemon, then see how many potions it takes to heal them to full, then look at the average price it takes to heal every Pokemon to full with a given healing item. That is way better than doing an arbitrary "how does this fare against the elite four?" Seeing as you'll waste time from turns where you don't take damage.
Also, a video like this might be fun with a team full of Pokemon like Blissey! Increases the amount of healing done and healing needed based on the stats, which is kinda cool. Also makes me wonder if one could, considering things like level caps, optimize a team to need the most healing or the least with things like intentionally getting low / recovery moves / niche strategies like perish song or counter/mirror coat
this is probably the nicest comment I ever got🥹 it’s tough for all of us out here my friend so i totally get it and don’t expect many (if any) members from the videos, but figured I’d turn em on anyway cause why not I’m mostly glad that people (like yourself) are watching and actually enjoying the silly vids I’m making🫶
@@mistercbody wonderful how a simple sentence or two can help someone have a better day, and there’s no cost. it makes me feel better and it makes you feel better as well (hopefully. i will not let you live without kindness in your world everybody fucking deserves it)
I never bothered with max potions but I did with full restores. Max potions always seemed like a waste of money because rarely will you ever have more than 200 HP to heal so I usually went with Hyper Potions because Super Potions are a rip off, and while Lemonade is a good choice, you normally can only buy one at a time and it makes my thumb hurt. You're rarely missing money in a Pokemon game as well. And, well, when I was a kid, I usually just ran to the Pokemon center rather than bothering with items.
I would argue that full restores are NOT a scam as they have a low opportunity cost compared with using 2 turns to remove a status 1 turn and then healing the second turn. Max potions on the other hand are 100% a scam as Chansey is the only pokemon at mid level likely to have over 200 hp. In battle I would say best to use the lemonades unless you are also statused in which case use the full restore to prevent the risk of fixing the status, healing, and getting statused again
You're paying for that convenience that's what it is. The potions are for when you're out on a long adventure and there's no pokemon center in sight. It's really for the pokemon rangers. But I knew from the start moomoo milk was the best healing items. Support your local farms people
I usually keep a stock of regular potions to use when the pokemon needs just a bit more HP. Also, I try to buy Fresh Waters and Moo moo milks when available. I only use full restores in emergencies and keep a few max potions for emergencies that don't require a status heal. I usually keep 5-7 on me.
For the barry farmers You only need Sitrus berry's Leppa berry's Revival herb happiness is cheap Or have a chansy with soft boil in the older games it was a fild move
A max lv chansey with max sats fir hp in gen 3 was about 700 softbailed would take 20% of chansey hp so about 140 hp and would heal a mon that much you can do this about 4 time and heal chansey for 1 max potion your healing most of your party
Thanks for watching! Let me know if there are any other potential scams that need investigating, cheers
TMs
The game corner...
The stuff you buy there is hella overpriced (as seen when you try to sell its dirt cheap but costs easily 100x or more)
Pokemon got casinos right at least
@@mistercbody 100% i think that the thing that most needs investigating is bst of some rare mons, ie sudowoodo, farfetchd, chimecho, etc. basically rare pokemon that are horrible, economics doesn’t help much with this, but averaging encounter rates and bst for the time of the game could be very interesting
if that doesn’t work just do the rse trades they’re so bad
@@zerarori love it, the in game trades always were so interesting to me as well tbh
When do you ever truly need an escape rope?
Most efficient heal is clearly going back to the pokemon center each time you battle. Duh
I WILL NOT ABUSE THAT LOVELY NURSE’S GENEROSITY
@@mistercbody all she has to do is turn around and insert the tray. Like making a pizza
She literally hopes to see you again. Not overworking her as much as possible would be a crime at this point
@@solidzack i always thought the hope to see you again line was kinda messed up. You want my Pokemon hurt? Sadistic.
Turns out she's actually a refugee from silent hill, 😌 @@mistercbody
Clearly the exceptional efficiency of fresh water and lemonade for healing pokemon proves that most pokemon are chronically dehydrated and have scurvy.
Wait, does that mean pokemon are pirates?
I think the worst part about hyper potions is how nurfed they got in Gen 7+ where they only Heal 120 HP.
it’s a true crime, king
I personally think it's a fair nerf. 200HP heal basically puts Max Potion in obsolete tier because not many pokemons have more than 200HP during your normal playthrough.
@@DanDaFreakinManlapras says hi.
@@josephbulkin9222 Hello, Lapras. Just know your existence doesn't disprove my point.
@@josephbulkin9222My bad, i forgot how we use lapras in every single run.
Pure hp per dollar isn't fair to the full restore. The entire point of them is to be a max potion PLUS a full heal. They're for much more specific scenarios, not just low health.
If you remove the price of the full heal you still at 2400 pokedollars so still not that efficient compared to the others
@tritojean7549 The point is to be turn efficient mid battle, that's why it is expensive. Getting a status heal and full hp on the same turn is very powerful. It's an endgame potion anyways, so it doesn't really need to be cost efficient, you're probably already in a comfortable position to shell out the cash for a handful of them.
@@tritojean7549 SO imagine you got knock to 1 Hp by a random attack and also got paralyze then if you only use Max Potion then you would still be paralyze so you try to use a full heal but then the opponent get another turn to get you to low HP again which you then heal back but then it use a devastating status and you just keep healing in a loop
"Purpose-built items are inefficient when you use them wrong on purpose and don't understand their function" is an incredible conclusion, really.
Moo Moo milk and Full Restores are clearly outlier runs, maybe programming a bot to run each Elite 4 run 1000 times for each healing item would be the best way to eliminate variations
my programming skills are non existent :/ but this would give a more accurate average for sure
@@mistercbodyin structions ubclear, bot exploit to credits warp ;)
Or just do like 3 runs, actually use Max Potions, but do the hypothetical math for other items.
@@grafzeppelin4069This is what I was thinking too. Having so many random variables affects the results
Actually the worst scam in Pokemon is the people buying the bicycle after the guy who has the Bike Voucher promoted there item around the region
the bike is an amazing deal
@@mistercbody for like one person, everyone else has to spend more then the price of a car
@@PhilipMurphy8 To be fair, it's priced as if it were a bike for competitive racing in gen 1. (Converting Poke to Yen, as in the original Japanese.)
@@TheTrueArkher Yeah which is a nice Easter egg considering your nit intended to buy it anyway.
Only stock-holder elites with bank accounts allowed to hold more than 999,999p¥ can buy bikes. Everyone else will never be able to afford it without high interest financing.
Honestly, shout out to fresh water, soda pop, and lemonade. Cheap to buy while still healing you for good amount of hp.
The only bad thing is that most of the time, you can’t buy in bulk, meaning you’ll have to spam pick each time you want a good amount of them.
Pretty cool in FRLG you can grab em in bulk from the merchant on 2 island, but you gotta beat the E4 once in order for that, so unfortunately didn’t apply to this specific scenario for me
Lemonade my precious.
That's why Moo Moo Milk is always the goat
Pre nerf fresh water and soda pop were such a steal and moomoo milk is still fantastic even today. In gens 3 through 5 I would stock up enough to last me until I could switch to hyper potions and it saved so much money for other things especially full heals and revives.
You're trading your time for HP
The best strategy is having a few of each, using the smaller ones outside of battle and saving the largest for the battles. If your Snorlax has 315 HP and you're at 10, using a Max Potion is much more efficient than using 2 turns to use Hyper potions or moomoo milk. And if he is paralyzed as well I will of course use a full restore.
The problem comes with trying to use only one item for everything. If your Charizard got hit for 90 HP and you want to heal it before the next fight, using a full restore is much less efficient than using 5 potions now that time isn't a problem.
This is the best approach and the one i follow.
I never buy hyper, max potions, or full restores as the ones found incidentally are usually enough. I might buy 1-2 max revives. Otherwise its water, lemonade, and normal potions. With 1-5 regular revive unless im doing a challenge run.
If your goal is to waste time it's true, but Pokemon games are easy and money is infinite. Literally the best strategy it to use full restores and max revives only.
@@Voliharmin maybe but that ignores completely the point of the video that assumes money is limited. This is not a speedrun guide, it's an analysis video.
@@AgusSkywalker Fair. But resources in speedruns are very limited and shopping is highly optimized, this analysis is not that far from speedrunning. Also money is only limited by time spent on getting it.
@@dantai68You can’t buy max revives in game.
In combat, always use hyper potions, unless you also have a status effect in which case you use a full restore
Out of combat, drincc wamter
Hydrate or die straight!
Don't bother with potions at all. Just spam revives until your opponent runs out of PP once you get down to your last pokeymun
No. In gen5 onwards you can abuse low level sturdy Pokémon and potions to drain pp far more efficiently. In fact due to this you can beat the elite 4 in oras with 2 level 1 Pokémon using a similar strategy.
consider: nuzlockes
*laughs in gen1*
you forgot the biggest factor to full restores, they take 1 turn for a complete heal [including status conditions] where as using a max potion or a moo moo milk with a full heal would take way longer. Personally i think this deserves a s retest only with both healing and full heals, rather then just healing alone because remember the old saying "time is money and you don't have a lot of it."
The most use full restores have is when you're status'd and low HP
At most you should need like 4 max in your bag at a time lol
Edit: surprised you didn't mention anything about the gen 7 hyper potion nerf or how moomoo milk is pretty easily available in some games like X/Y
Yeah. That can save you Revive usage at times, but you don't need that more.
This (and the PokeBall video, maybe) could benefit from a Gen 7+ remake, yeah
Even as a Kid I always thought Max Potions and Full Restores were scams. I always just stocked up on Hyper Potions and Full Heals. Since in a normal playthrough it's rare you'll get Pokemon with over 200 HP (At least back when Hypers healed that much) by the end of the game. Plus, combining the two only works in Battles as an efficient thing, and since I prefer to heal outside of battle only, I've never found much use for them. If you Full Restore for just HP, you're losing a huge chunk of value, and same if you use it for just Status or Status + a small heal.
Keep in mind this:
In sword and shield oran berries are 80 pokedollars and heal 10.
2 oran berries costs 160 to heal 20, the same amount THAT A POTION HEALS FOR 200
The economy in Galar is crazy
It's the convenience that gives it an extra 40
I mean to be fair to full restores: They're kinda meant to restore hp AND get rid of status-effects
I just wanna say, I wish you could buy max revives, if you don't wanna use herbs. If they could be bought they would be 4000 each.
I would love to watch the best more efficient combos, what to use in battle and what outside, at least is what I always found more efficient
@@nit11 welcome to the channel membership club, much appreciated!
And thanks for the suggestion, i may look deeper into the general efficiency of items. It’d be hard to quantify since a lot of the game’s random, so one run (or even just 1 battle from 1 run) wouldn’t be the most accurate indicator of what works.. kinda similar to this video, but it adds another element when you add in the combination factor
One thing not covered… you can buy potions in bulk, but in most games vending machines sell Water, Soda, Lemonade & Milk one at a time.
A couple games do have places to buy in bulk, such as a in ORAS buying half a dozen Soda at a time… but thats still slower than a single purchase of 999 at the Mart.
Yup, towards the back end of this video I mentioned how you can get moo moo milk(and the other heals) from the guy on 2 Island, but there’s some prerequisites before you have access to it, so it definitely would take longer to have to buy 1 at a time until you unlock them
This isn’t true of moomoo milks, though. You usually can buy those in bulk.
Thats why you should mix the heals that you use.
All you'll need are revives, full heals and lemonades.
investing all your pokedollars in one type of heal item is a bad choice :b
I’m an all or nothing type of guy😼
Or in Platinum all you need are moomoo milks, lava cookies, and revives
This is probably the worst way to go about this. If you switched the Hyper Potion and Full Restore runs, the results would look completely different.
A better way would have been this:
Go through the Elite 4 a couple of times with no healing in battle. In between battles you check how many items it would take of each kind to heal up to full.
This doesn't factor in convenience in battle (like Full Restores healing status or Fresh Water healing way to little to be useful), but it eliminates randomness between runs.
I’m sure there are SOME worse ways to do this!
This. His methodology is so bad lol. Idk how he got his degree.
@@juanquntos7123 it’s just a video game Juan
@mistercbody if lose you the elite 4 you personally get your degree taken away from you by biden himself. Get with the times.
Actually, applying economics/finance to the things i seen you do in Pokemon (just been watching the SCAM series and i think ill sub) is the way to engage and even coach people (your viewers) into doing it IRL. Provides a relatable basis to explain the concepts, logic and arithmetical formulas. Cost per performance, cost efficiency, the cost vs benefit of convenience, etc.
I honestly didn’t really think of it that way lol but it’s a great point.. maybe there are some other things throughout the games I can use to explain some other simple financial / economic principles. Could be interesting🤔
@@mistercbody Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything i can remember, at least up to Gen III (which is all I've played, besides fangames like Reborn, Uranium, Insurgence, or Rejuvenation). Since heals, poke balls and repels are all the buyables that you get an effect from during a playthtrough besides like TMs, Vitamins (Carbos, etc) or Pokémon (you could maybe do something with the Game Corner prizes in FRLG and other games as in benefit/hours spent on grinding money (consider you are at the very end of the game b4 the Elite 4 and using the most time/money efficient area available to VS Seeker, go to a heal spot, etc) considering how strong the Pokémon are or how beneficial TMs and other stuff you can get there are. This will likely need some consultancy with someone who fully understands Pokémon playthtroughs to evaluate the Pokémon, TMs or whatever.
Could maybe do something with the Vitamins and EV yields in the most efficient Pokémon giving those EVs, comparing the money grind Vs wild battle grind for the same EVs? There's maybe ways to do it without actually playing, or as i seen someone say, have a bot do it for you and collect the data. Hopefully you can do #2 since having some actual data is much better than just some mathematical modeling (which you could do anyway and back up with data collected with the bot). TMs would be different after Gen 5 due to them being reusable by then.
Honestly, I think a better way to test the Efficiency part of healing, would be to only heal in battle.
Mandatory healing to full before the fight is a lot of waste for expensive potions whose main advantage is to save you turns.
By only healing in battle, you would still waste more hp with the expensive heals but need way less of them
Super psyched to see this channel recommended; lots of fun stuff. The game corner video was great. I'd love to see the pokeball video done with a larger sample size, too!
thanks so much so glad you’ve enjoyed so far🤝 and i may have to add a pokeball remake to the list
Free healthcare and you think I'm BUYING medicine???
What if you are in the woods
Non-American country moment.
Well what else are you gonna do with ya moolah!
@@hitkid2456 gambling
Algorithm going brrr. been getting recommended a lot of smaller creators lately.
i hope i didn’t disappoint friend
I thought the content was good. My only thought was that to better combat the rng you should've done multiple runs of each category to get a better cost average. I know each runs amounts to actual irl money you donated so to keep it manageable either the highest cost per category or just the first run per could be the one used for the donation.
I just think only doing one run per category hurts the overall data. But you did talk about that at the end of the vide. Overall I think you did a good job and will be going to watch other videos later today.
good point, and thanks so much!
Here is the thing, full restores also heal any statue as well as hp, so you dont need to use full heals or any of the specific stat heals. So maybe which status heal is the bigger scam? (Edit) at the end you did mention the fully heal side of for restore, but still want to k ow whoch status heal is the best for price.
You edited this with typos
Awakening is almost never worth it (owing to several titles having reusable sources of sleep removal), and any gen3+ title depends on access to the status recovery berries and the ability to grow more to compare to status recovery. That said, Full Heal is rarely worth the cost outside of bag space concerns, and if you're recovering multiple status at once mid-fight (like confusion plus burn/sleep/poison/paralyze/freeze)
@@DrakonLamethThe Hoenn games have the Blue Flute which basically acts as a permanently available Awakening, to further rub salt in the wound
This highlights to me more that FRLG elite 4 at least really didn't make enough use of statuses to make status recovery items worth it. The times I needed the most status healing were on long routes with lots of fairly weak trainers but who just wear your team down over the course of travelling through it.
Full heals are the biggest scam. Carrying a stock of the cheaper, condition specific heals costs a fraction of the price.
so the morale of this is to just give your pokemon diabetes with lemonade, got it
Before you have access to hyper potions, always buy lemonade. Trust me. It works.
A fellow lemonade believer, cheers
@@mistercbody I’m playing yellow right now, it’s a lifesaver.
One funny thing I did in Gen7 was just using Poke Pelago to grind infinite sitrus berries and never using any potions lol
Good stuff bro. Watched you for the first time yesterday and not regretting it so far
thank you bro, glad you enjoy🤝🤝
Potions are basically laziness in a bottle. I ain't fucking walking back.
I think an important thing to remember is when you get access to each option. There is likely a point where supers are a bit more efficient but as soon as the drinks get opened up, they die.
Full restores might not be the most efficient, but they are the best answer to burn and poison on high hp pokemon.
The only other options is a full heal, and max potion wasting 2 moves, or revive and max potion, also wastes 2 moves.
There is a max revive, but you can't buy those so it's a moot point.
I'd normally have a few full restores.
A bit more max potions for battles.
And the rest hyper potions for out of battle heals.
Yeah, I think a blend is clearly the way to go after doing all these runs tbh
Gotta also consider that older games had limited bagspace, which adds a bit of extra value to a full restore
One HUGE problem is that, in most games, the drinks like soda and moomoo milk can't be bought from traditional merchants and so you have to buy them like one at a time from a vending machine and wait for the "animation" every time. It's just a huge waste of time trying to buy a large amount of them.
the soft drinks are way better to buy in bulk to use outside of battle. in-battle, you’re better off using hyper potions as 200 hp is usually enough to top off most pokemon or at least get close to topping off. unless you’re running really high level pokemon for a post-game elite four run or using a really bulky pokemon like a snorlax or blissey, max potions probably won’t be necessary.
Yeah, works as a taste of the problem, but everything potions is far more complicated than the rest. Repels and Pokeballs are a fixed price for a fixed effect, but the same cant be said for potion types. Sure, the effects are "fixed", but the situations in which you use them are not. 20 hp means something very different at lvls 5, 25, and 50+, going from effective, to preemptive, to post battle cleanup. That issue only scales as you get into more advanced healing potions. Full restores have one advantage over hypers in the long term, and that is 2 effects for a single turn. Full restores are a sort of safety net that lets you push status problems to their limit before using, and are the key to avoiding revival methods. You dont need to instantly heal your toxic poison the moment it is applied if you would just take more damage than you healed from the following attack, instead waiting until the combination of chip and potential incoming damage is a threat and clearing both at once. The less hp your healing target has as a max, the more hp is wasted in "efficiency" which is only one of many reasons the different potion tiers are locked behind different gym badges. Rich Kids using full restores on pokemon less than lvl 25 is a power play for a reason; the cost per hp is so high no normal trainer would have enough to buy a stockpile of full restores at such an early part of their journey when the post battle rewards are so low.
The actual debate at the time of the elite 4 is between hypers, max, and full restores. Hypers healing 200 hp when only inherently bulky pokemon are above that number immediately outclass max potions who will heal the same amount for more money, but the added benefit from full restores makes them an actual competitor who's use overall shines when a status is added into the mix. Chip damage from status means you have to heal sooner, wasting more hp from hypers and getting a chip damage penalty after the fact, but on a full restore, you can wait until you would get the most bang for your buck the pokemon in question would allow. By the time 200 hp is a serious consideration for cost per hp gained, vending machine drinks become irrelevant beyond being better options for post-battle cleanup than their basic potion counterparts. If vending machine drinks are part of the equation, we have to be talking about an earlier part of the game (at least most of the time) than the elite 4 who usually sits at around lvl 75, only going lower in relation to the length of the post-game story.
No, with something as complicated as potions, the smallest acceptable sample size is (n+1) full game runs, where n=the number of unique items tested. Control (the +1) is a run where everything is available, utilizing smaller heals between battles to top yourself up to reduce cost per hp gained overflows, and each individual tally towards n is restricting yourself to a single item even between battles. Revives can still be allowed because they serve a different function (as long as their use isnt abused in a sort of "i would get more health out of letting my pokemon die and reviving them to 50% than i would giving them a potion now before they die"), but you need to isolate each potion type as much as possible for a longer period of time to get a more conclusive data set. My hypothesis is that the control set will come out ahead on all fronts as you use what is best for each scenario instead of being forced to over or under invest into each potion, and all of that is before using a running total of income vs expense, with runs of exclusively higher tier potions requiring cheating past the income and story barriers to properly test. No matter how you go about the (n+1), you need to go out of your way to make each run as similar as possible. They wont be exact clones, as there is too much RNG in place, even for finding and using the same types of pokemon who will have different inherent stats, but there are steps you can talk to minimize uniqueness. Testing to the average is the only way to account for RNG, but that increases the time investment.
I didn't know the pokeflute was a usable item after using it on snorlax 🙀
I was hoping you would assess the herbs as well. My Favorite is the Revival herb...
I thought you were a big creator >10k at least, but I saw your sub count.
You are massively underrated.
Thank you bro, one day🥹
This is one of the few games where I like food items doing healing.... You also gotta cover slow poke tails btw
in gen 1 I'd always max out vending machine drinks as soon as they're unlocked. I like saving money even when I'm rich. But after using so many lemonades, it feels like I'm spraying cancer juice whenever I have to switch to the mass produced chem potions.
I don't think I ever bought Max Potions. Maybe my first run before I knew better or something. Even as a like 8 year old, I could tell certain items were a scam. Same with Full Restore and the item named similar to it. I used it so frequently I don't even know the name. In a pinch when I needed to mass buy items (vending machines are 1 by 1) I think flying to cinnebar island or something had the best value potions.
As I get older though my time is more valuable than pokebux. So buying the expensive potions right at the elite 4 isn't as bad as it used to be. "Wasting" money on repels also isn't really wasted money because it saves a ton of time. Also it's just straight up cheaper in the long run because that time wasted on zubats can be spent on elite4 which makes them pay for themselves.
Anyway even in games where you do go with potions, it's still worth it to get lemonades. They're a separate healing item, so when you're mass clicking through potions without watching your count then you can always go to the lemonade as an emergency backup. Or maybe that's just me who looks quickly for anything with "potion" in its name and mass uses them without planning.
In Gen 9 moomoomilks seem to be the best healing ones since Soda Pops Lemonades and Fresh waters were nerfed
Hey dude, love your stuff!
If I may make a suggestion: use a different sound for the number counter going up. The frequent sound of toxic just isnt pleasing on the ear in a 19 minute video.
Keep it up!
thanks so much! And dude lol that’s so funny you said that because I literally was trying so hard to find a subtle sound for the counter(i spent like an hour looking through Pokemon sound libraries) and couldn’t figure anything out.. gotta do more digging for next time. I felt like a button sound effect was a little too much and then couldn’t find the bag tick sound :/
Trust me, an experienced player never thinks to use much less buy Full Restores until you reach the Elite 4 and thats because you no longer have any use for all the Prize Money you've been swallowing up every battle. I feel like in the later games this starts becoming a massive problem because you have so much of it in excess that you wonder what you even do with it all.
The way I buy things, I make sure I'm always topped off on specific items to a set amount. All balls go to 30; hyper, max, full to 10. Max out fresh waters, max out full heals, max out leppa berries. Buy 5 TMs (when applicable).
Does nobody play the postgame?
vitamins are pretty damn expensive
@@chainsawplayin what post game?
Remember, revival herb is a max revive, and unless you're running return or trying to friendship evolve, it's a really powerful heal
I think an interesting metric would be cost of potions spent over the actual HP healed. So, if you heal 120 HP using a single hyper potion, it comes down to 1200/120 = 10 pokedollars per HP, while using 3 fresh waters to heal the same amount comes down to 600/120 = 5 pokedollars per HP. Averaging that across multiple pokemon and battles could give a reliable efficiency of these items. To calculate combat efficiency, you could multiply the number by the number of potions used (and thus rounds wasted), which would come to 10 pokedollar-potion per HP for a hyper potion and 15 pokedollar-potions per HP for the fresh water in the aforementioned example.
Max restore being exspensive is really funny in a game where status barely matters in single player
In later games, if you have the patience, berry farming replaces all healing items
I kinda like the implication that there is all this artificial stuff you could give your pokemon but fresh water is the overall best option.
Full Restores are basically a Full Heal and Max Potion combined together. When you look at the colors of the Max Potion(Blue) and Full Heal(Yellow) it make since that the Full Restore is Green. Also in Scarlet and Violet you don't even need to buy any of Potions often thanks to re-spawning Item spots. In Sun and Moon and games onward Fresh Waters heal 30 HP, While Soda Pops now heal 50 HP, and Lemonade's heal 70, and they also up the amount the Super Potion heal to 60 HP. And in order to heal a Max HP Chansey or Blissey if a Max Potion or Full Restore healed 416 HP would be 2 since Chansey Max HP is 704, While Blissey has 714 HP.
That's legitimately how I play in every game.
Don't buy any healing item unitil I get Fresh Water access. Change to Lemonade/Moomoo Milk later (depending on availability.)
Also, in BW2, you can get deals for your money.
I lose most of it from that scammy Stone seller, but that's still nice I guess
You forgot about opportunity cost. Not only do i not have to think about how much HP a Full Restore heals, but it also removes status effects in a single turn. This vs having to use a potion and status remover on subsequent turns.
If we're purely talking about cost and not time, Meowth's ability is pickup, which has a 15% of giving you an oran berry in FRLG. This is a free 10HP heal. It costs $0 and is therefore the most efficient option. Hoenn, Sinnoh, and gen 4 Johto's berry planting also gives you effective access to unlimited sitrus berries. These heal 30hp flat in gen 3 and 25% of max in every gen after, making them wildly more efficient and still $0. The "heals but can cause confusion" berry line vary massively on how much they heal per gen, but are also a factor to consider.
There's also the matter of convenience, which you do bring up. In FRLG you have to buy lemonades one at a time from one specific rooftop. It's really inefficient and I've never used them. In BW2 you are forced to interact with pokestar studios at least once. The first fan you get (an npc who will give you a reward after completing a movie) is a backpacker who will always give you 5 lemonades if you properly ended the movie. IIRC as you get more fans more than one can be a backpacker. I rarely leave virbank city with less than 80 lemonades. They're also free, as opposed to the fact you have to pay for each one in FRLG, which is another factor.
Even so though, outside of the elite four, you can normally get by with an acquire-on-site mentality of just using whatever you found on the ground. Especially in a post-gen 5 world where important areas normally have healing NPCs in addition to the main pokemon center locations. Again, if not using items in battle, that totals out to one shopping trip where you buy at most 25 revives (5 potentially fainted pokemon * 5 consecutive battles= 25 revives), 30 full heals (6 potentially ailment inflicted pokemon), and 30-ish hyper potions (depending on max HP). Which you definitely have the funds for.
It’s kind of like how a 64OZ bottle of grape juice and a 16OZ bottle of grape juice can cost the same at the grocery store, but the smaller bottle costs more per ounce because of the convenience factor that people are willing to pay to have.
In my personal opinion, there’s a difference between what’s efficient in battle and out of battle. Out of battle the priority is how cheap can you heal. In battle the goal is to waste as few turns as possible. Full restores are great because they can cure, say, paralysis *and* bring you to full saving you a turn. But they’re not something to use every time you need healing.
Ironically, Moomoo Milks were my healing item of choice during my latest White 2 run. They're super easy to come by in that game, being sold at the Driftveil Market, alongside honestly the best revival option being the revival herbs, which heal for full HP with the only downside being that it damages your friendship with your pokemon.
Divide the HP recovered by the Poke dollar cost, and you'll realize the most cost effective items like the energy root makes your Pokemon dislike you.
Can we talk about how the herb shop in S/R/E is an absolute scam, with the exception of Energy Root, but that one basically nukes your friendship?
i've thought about this! i hate using the root because it makes me feel like i'm hurting the trust of the mon that i love
It amazes me how people still come up with original and interesting content about Pokemon. Nice video!
@@Voliharmin Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed
If we are really going into the economics here... I would instead go through the cost efficiencies of each potion, both inside and outside of battle, and buying them in proportion to their use case scenarios. For example, when outside of battle, you can use as many healing items as you want, so you'd want to maximize the healing per cost factor. Which turns out to be that in 45% of possible health values under 601 to be straight Fresh waters. And the rest of the time combinations of either fresh water and soda pop or fresh water and lemonade. Which turns out that for 18.33% of scenarios to be soda pop and 36.67% of scenarios to be lemonade. For health values above 600, Max potions are always the most cost effective.
None of the other healing items come into play outside of battle, mostly because they either have a lower cost efficiency than Fresh Water while also having 50 as a common factor, completely ruling them out since just using X fresh waters in place of said item would always be cheaper outside of battle, or they are so expensive that there is no point in ever using it. I mean, it doesn't matter if the potion doesn't have 50 as a common factor if it only heals for 20 and is more expensive than the fresh water... Health inefficiency doesn't matter, cost efficiency is what we are looking for.
While inside of battle things get a lot more complicated. As guzzling 4-6 fresh waters to heal 200-300 health is almost certainly going to result in taking multiple turns of damage and in turn reducing the efficiency of said fresh waters, and if the opponent is dealing 50+ damage each turn then those fresh waters are completely wasted. So instead healing 80 health with a lemonade, 100 health with a Moo milk, or 200 health with a Hyper Potion, etc in one go is much more likely to be more efficient within a battle... but it all really depends on the context of the battle. Things really start to get complicated once you have to deal with opponents damaging you while you heal, so it becomes a game of defeating the opponent using the least amount of potions (money) possible. Which is a calculation that changes drastically from battle to battle. All depending on how much damage your opponent is dealing to you each turn, your maximum health, and how many turns you need to defeat the opponent. Of course other factors like the opponent using status moves and the like really complicate things even further... so using potions with optimal precision in battle can become really complicated really quickly. Just one move difference in defeating the enemy can make one potion more efficient than the other.
Basically if you wanted to do it optimally, you'd have to either math it out for each battle how many potions and the optimal ones you'll need for each battle. Or you would take the average amount for your team's health and damage rates. Either way it's just... complicated lol
Proud to say i have never bought a max potion, full restores are great in the middle of battle though, but only if you need both effects
As a kid, I always saved a full restore for the slim chance that my mon is at low hp, para, and confused while in battle
Honestly I wish you'd done this in a later generation, with the bitter herbs and 120 hp hyper potions. Max potions are a lot less of a scam with the closest equivalent being 80 less
Battle style "switch"? *CRINGE*
Nah, I'm just a masochist. Gotta say these videos about scam items really speak to my inner need for max efficiency, and donating to ACS is another big bonus! Hope to see more like it going forward
LOL I’m really glad you like them! More to come in the future for sure
I'm pretty sure the main point is to use healing items most effective for the situation. Only a little hurt, use fresh water, down by 200 hp, use hyper potion, pokemon is a 1 hp and has a status effect, use full restore
Dude is so wholesome! I can’t believe that you donate your own money to charity for a video that probably won’t earn you $60 back. Since I enjoyed the video and your thoughtfulness, I subbed to the channel. Looking forward to checking out your other videos
Really appreciate that and the kind words! I think the donations make the challenge more interesting & add a tiny amount of good to the world so i like to try to donate where i can, even though yeah I probably will not make that money back from this video lol
I always bought fresh water from the machines as soon as i can in pokemon games
My first Pokémon game was Pokémon white 2 and I remember just sitting there for what seems like ages buying drinks from vending machines lol
The stronger healing options, you're buying Action Economy. Going from one hp to full with one item can be a big deal. Between battles is where I am most likely to use the most efficient cures in terms of price.
I feel like there are several flaws in the methodology of this experiment. First, Full Restore and Max Potion are effectively equally effective unless you have to contend with poison, paralysis, burn, or freeze, and there should definitely be an opportunity cost against max potion or anything else if those status conditions are in play. There is also a strong case to have multiple types of healing items to balance the cost efficiency of out of battle fresh water heals with the healing effectiveness of hyper potions. Combined with a couple insurance full restores and full heals there is definitely a blended inventory that achieves the true best results for a first clear, something like 5 hypers, 2 full restores, 2 full heals, a batch of revives and “a case or two” of fresh waters is where I find myself in an E4 run.
Awesome channel. Subbed!
Me who only uses potions/x boosts in battle when the NPC uses an item lmao.
I really love these videos man hope ur channel goes far!
Super glad you’re enjoying; I hope so too🤞
@@mistercbody ur casino episode made me wish there was a casino and arcade rom hack where the only way u could get Pokémon was through gambling and mini games 😁
So for the sake of pokemon being played normally, youd get lemonades for in battle, and fresh water for out of battle, this will keep healing cheap and minimize health wasted
Let's go test in emerald or heartgold (trend of playing remakes) next! Love these videos though :)
Thank you!
For most of the runs, the thing I learned most is that revives are expensive. Your best run was defined by a lack of need for revives, and the worst run is marred by a ton of them.
Full restore/max potion just have a different role than the rest of the healing cast, and thats an amazing thing. Having a less efficient, maximum effect healing for spur of the moment combat is required in some situations, and an item that can fix status and heal in games without a poke flute in the same turn is needed many times in many runs of the elite 4 in other games.
Good analysis, just kinda misses the mark on the usefulness of the test for me.
Pre-gen-7 Hyper Potions used to be so good. 200 hp for like 1200 bucks, load up on these with revives and full heals, and you're set
Pretty sure there was a more efficient way to do this that didn't involve you doing an elite four run.
You take the average health of every pokemon, then see how many potions it takes to heal them to full, then look at the average price it takes to heal every Pokemon to full with a given healing item.
That is way better than doing an arbitrary "how does this fare against the elite four?"
Seeing as you'll waste time from turns where you don't take damage.
Also, a video like this might be fun with a team full of Pokemon like Blissey! Increases the amount of healing done and healing needed based on the stats, which is kinda cool. Also makes me wonder if one could, considering things like level caps, optimize a team to need the most healing or the least with things like intentionally getting low / recovery moves / niche strategies like perish song or counter/mirror coat
Moral of the story: Nutrition beats out medications. Every. Single. Time.
I wonder how much it would change if you had used max revives instead if regular ones.
probably drastically but that wouldn’t make for a very good video🥲
i hate how underrated these vids are. if i had the money to support directly, i would. ❤
this is probably the nicest comment I ever got🥹 it’s tough for all of us out here my friend so i totally get it and don’t expect many (if any) members from the videos, but figured I’d turn em on anyway cause why not
I’m mostly glad that people (like yourself) are watching and actually enjoying the silly vids I’m making🫶
@@mistercbody wonderful how a simple sentence or two can help someone have a better day, and there’s no cost. it makes me feel better and it makes you feel better as well (hopefully. i will not let you live without kindness in your world everybody fucking deserves it)
the different recordings between the Quantity readings and the HP left 😂 ah, production challenges
the amount of times i had to go back because I miscounted and re record pieces on different days😭
So when you inevitably get good at Pokemon what's the plan for donations? Upping the price for mistakes?
Also, great video and concept!
@@thebigdork8030 Thank you! The plan is to never get good🤞🤞🤞
My go to was always lemonade instead of potions for healing outside of battles. Unless i had a couple i found on the ground or in the trash.
I never bothered with max potions but I did with full restores. Max potions always seemed like a waste of money because rarely will you ever have more than 200 HP to heal so I usually went with Hyper Potions because Super Potions are a rip off, and while Lemonade is a good choice, you normally can only buy one at a time and it makes my thumb hurt. You're rarely missing money in a Pokemon game as well. And, well, when I was a kid, I usually just ran to the Pokemon center rather than bothering with items.
I would argue that full restores are NOT a scam as they have a low opportunity cost compared with using 2 turns to remove a status 1 turn and then healing the second turn. Max potions on the other hand are 100% a scam as Chansey is the only pokemon at mid level likely to have over 200 hp.
In battle I would say best to use the lemonades unless you are also statused in which case use the full restore to prevent the risk of fixing the status, healing, and getting statused again
As a wise man once said, "You can't be Champion of the Pokémon League without knowing how to spam Full Restores!"
Most efficient heal is just not taking damage from the start
Carry a blissy and have her softboil your team. You only need to full restore her. Softboil works out of battle.
Damn, Imagene going through the elete 4 7 times whilst doing math with your own hypothesis
The only time I use healing items is in the elite four tbh before that you're never far away from a pokecenter where you can heal for free
I'd like to see a followup where you have all healing available and do a few runs just trying to be efficient with the healing as possible
Will keep this in mind🫡
You're paying for that convenience that's what it is. The potions are for when you're out on a long adventure and there's no pokemon center in sight. It's really for the pokemon rangers. But I knew from the start moomoo milk was the best healing items. Support your local farms people
Good idea man! like your other vids too! But the sample size makes it kind of unclear of anything unfortunately.
In newer games where it's super easy to get like a million dollars i just load up with 999 of everything I deem useful and move on lmao
I usually keep a stock of regular potions to use when the pokemon needs just a bit more HP. Also, I try to buy Fresh Waters and Moo moo milks when available. I only use full restores in emergencies and keep a few max potions for emergencies that don't require a status heal. I usually keep 5-7 on me.
For the barry farmers
You only need
Sitrus berry's
Leppa berry's
Revival herb happiness is cheap
Or have a chansy with soft boil in the older games it was a fild move
A max lv chansey with max sats fir hp in gen 3 was about 700 softbailed would take 20% of chansey hp so about 140 hp and would heal a mon that much you can do this about 4 time and heal chansey for 1 max potion your healing most of your party