Will My New Yamaha Convert My Selmer Friends?

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  • Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 200

  • @maxvotolato3770
    @maxvotolato3770 Год назад +109

    the saxologic classical era is feeding my soul

  • @HylianAlph
    @HylianAlph Год назад +222

    Me whenever someone does a direct comparison and I’m supposed to think they sound different 👁️👄👁️

    • @TactfulWaggle
      @TactfulWaggle Год назад +3

      I was reading your comments so basically as good as having closed eyes, still couldn't tell the difference XD

    • @Korrupt27
      @Korrupt27 Год назад +2

      It’s kinda hard to tell sometimes but in my opinion the new one sounds brighter

    • @BlameSnowy
      @BlameSnowy Год назад +1

      @@Korrupt27 The best way I can describe it is that the bottom end of the notes sound richer, or brighter, resulting in a fuller sound, but it's like barely a difference.

  • @chezswing
    @chezswing Год назад +72

    The zoom into Otis Murphy as Fantasia played absolutely killed me

    • @briankiser2754
      @briankiser2754 Год назад +1

      This cracked me up also! Otis is a great guy who was rocking the Yamaha Custom in 1990, as a high school student, before the official release. Not sure if it was an 855 or 875, but he let me play it and it was so much freer and better intonated than my Selmer S80. I think that Yamaha saved Selmer with this horn by forcing Selmer try harder.

  • @chancestine2659
    @chancestine2659 Год назад +69

    Andrew has my old neck lol?? This dude is bleeding my dry.
    As a Selmer guy myself, I love playing Yamaha sometimes to remind myself of the differences. Oftentimes I think the cons of a Selmer are the pros of a Yamaha and vice versa. Feeling how smooth and sleek a Yamaha is helps me bring that back over to Selmer, even if I have to work a little harder for it. Love how low end softs feel on a Yamaha and how quiet the key action is.

    • @Saxologic
      @Saxologic  Год назад +12

      The maestro has spoken. Very interesting! What do you think of the Supreme, if you've tried it?

    • @chancestine2659
      @chancestine2659 Год назад +13

      @@Saxologic I’ve only tried it briefly, but it had much more of that evenness throughout registers that I like about Yamaha but still with that thick Selmer sound. More in tune than Series II’s and III’s too. Definitely an exciting horn, planning on getting one next year

    • @disgruntled_llama
      @disgruntled_llama Год назад +1

      I should stop being surprised when you show up anywhere there's a saxophone being discussed.

    • @chancestine2659
      @chancestine2659 Год назад

      @@disgruntled_llama guilty as charged

  • @quincoltman6916
    @quincoltman6916 Год назад +12

    I’ve had my custom now for almost a year and have loved every moment of playing it, it feels super versatile between both jazz and classical and the ease of playability is just amazing!

  • @vinuthgamage1992
    @vinuthgamage1992 Год назад +16

    brooo i LOVE your new classical sound it's sounding better and better. the casual talent from everyone in this video is insane

  • @skippernana5036
    @skippernana5036 Год назад +9

    I could literally listen to you play on that yas-875 all day, the sound is absolutely beautiful and so smooth.

  • @Jonathanhsax
    @Jonathanhsax Год назад +12

    Once you get to this level of playing the difference isn't really SO much about how it sounds versus how you feel playing it, beyond upgrading to an intermediate to professional level horn. Whichever is going to make you feel the most comfortable playing, the better. You should find a way to try out the Yani WO series ;)

  • @jimmymiller5465
    @jimmymiller5465 Год назад +16

    I like the A- A+ comparison. That’s how I’ve always felt.

    • @bacconbaccon4851
      @bacconbaccon4851 Год назад

      what does A- / A+ mean?

    • @jimmymiller5465
      @jimmymiller5465 Год назад

      @@bacconbaccon4851 they were imply that Yamaha consistently builds satisfactory horns, i.e an A- horn, and Selmer inconsistently builds superior A+ horns but you have to work to find a good one. In my experience Selmer is inconsistent with setting up their horns. In many cases you need to send them to a skilled tech who can set them up properly which could include tone hole leveling, neck tenon fit, post hole alignment, key cup centering, etc. I had this done with my mark vis and they played like completely different horns, for the better. Just because you buy a horn new doesn’t mean it comes set up correctly.

    • @j.r.1210
      @j.r.1210 10 месяцев назад

      ​@jimmymiller5465 Not exactly. The person who made that comment, Andrew, was talking about the quality of his *playing*, not the quality of the horn. He said the Yamaha makes it easier than the Selmer to get to the A- level in his performance. But if he wants to keep going, and reach the A+ level, the Selmer is better for that.

  • @spkroadbikes
    @spkroadbikes Год назад +8

    Not gonna lie Yamaha's top series is amazing. That 875 sounds amazing. Same with the 82z. I love the sound!

  • @a.j.501st
    @a.j.501st Год назад +5

    I’m more of a Selmer guy myself, though I primarily play tenor, that alto sounded wonderful. Almost got me looking into one, ALMOST. Then I looked at my Selmer super action alto and said “nah, I think
    I’m good” 😂

  • @masonrockett
    @masonrockett Год назад +35

    THE LEGEND RETURNS! Merry Christmas Nathan!

    • @Saxologic
      @Saxologic  Год назад +4

      You are the legend! Merry Christmas brother Rockett

  • @b.smitty5273
    @b.smitty5273 Год назад +6

    I played a Selmer series III for 10 years and recently switched to the Supreme. I like how yamahas play, but I've always been a bit underwhelmed by the projection, except for the few gold plated ones I tried from friends, but those are both unobtanium and expensive :/ So for me the Supreme was the perfect middle ground in the end.
    Also I'm loving the classical content!

    • @mmeyerssax
      @mmeyerssax Год назад

      not sure if he included that, but that's exactly what andrew and i thought, too. subpar projection compared to sii/siii.

  • @DavePollack
    @DavePollack Год назад +10

    Needs stickers

  • @natearchuleta2003
    @natearchuleta2003 Год назад +9

    Bro that new horn sounds so legit.

  • @Andrew_Schaeffer.
    @Andrew_Schaeffer. Год назад +5

    Not the TMEA etudes I thought I finally escaped them

  • @ed.z.
    @ed.z. Год назад +1

    Fabulous demonstration. I’d love to see more of this concept for other sax equipment.

  • @dominicportugal5514
    @dominicportugal5514 Год назад +4

    I made the same transition as you!! I went from using a Yamaha 62 and almost 2 years ago I got a silver plated EX and I love it

  • @donovansiers9422
    @donovansiers9422 Год назад +2

    I ended up preferring a Custom Z alto (that I got in black lacquer to match my tenor), but with a gold plated E1 neck. The Z feels more free blowing to me than the EX, but the E1 neck keeps the sound warm and controlled. Best of both worlds to me.

  • @zvonimirtosic6171
    @zvonimirtosic6171 Год назад +2

    I understand those fellows are used to their saxophones. But for classical performers, they were more focused on "projection" rather than on "tone-to-tone quality". They did not find time to listen carefully and hear that Custom Yamaha has more fluid action than their Selmers, better intonation control, resulting in much finer legatos without tone-to-tone transitional "peaks" or "handovers", which their Selmers exhibited. In other words, their Selmers sounded more like brass instruments, while Custom Yamaha sounded more like a human voice.

  • @williamgregory1848
    @williamgregory1848 Год назад +5

    I’m in love with the YAS-875EX! I tried it out a couple of days ago (along with the YAS-62III) and I so badly wanted both horns 😫

  • @vincentharty4373
    @vincentharty4373 Год назад +4

    you sound great on both but the newer horn felt like you had a bigger sound and were just overflowing the room with your sound, in a good way. Beautiful tone

  • @maxharper6288
    @maxharper6288 Год назад +4

    HOW IS HE NOT AT 1 MILLION YET?

  • @Dmoll
    @Dmoll Год назад +1

    I own a Selmer Series II sop (and sop is also my primary instrument), I honestly think that us Selmer players are just like magnets towards Selmers, lol. We get very used to the sound, and adapt to it. But Selmer's have a pretty unique sound not given off by other horns, and I think at least for me, that's what keeps me in the mindset of "I prefer to play Selmer's"

  • @emilybalcerak7861
    @emilybalcerak7861 Год назад

    Happy Holiday! As someone who worked in the Band & Orchestral department of the flagship Sam Ash, it was always interesting to play all these back to back, and hear college students run through the gamut. While a YAS is an easy recommendation for anyone advancing, once the Selmer Axos came out, I always preferred them to a YAS62III for being partial to the projection/Selmer sound in a cheaper-scale pro horn (especially since they're now about the same price with inflation). For a higher price, I gotta say, I'm still always partial to a series II vs. an EX or Custom Z for very rounded players who genre jump, but EX's and Z's for those who stick more to Classical.

  • @tytospokojnie
    @tytospokojnie Год назад +2

    SELMER TRIUMPHS AS ALWAYS

  • @hubr5827
    @hubr5827 Год назад +2

    definitely warmer on the new one, going to see if i can get one soon!

  • @markwhite-what-da-jazz
    @markwhite-what-da-jazz Год назад

    I have the same saxophone. Consider trying the E1 and C1 neck with this saxophone. The Yamaha necks are fantastic. I prefer the E1 neck for jazz and most of my dance club gigs, but I will occasionally use the V1 neck for dance gigs ... but I have to use a dark sounding reed (Boston Sax) with the V1 neck. The V1 neck can be fantastic for transforming a moderate baffle mouthpiece into a more powerful mouthpiece. I see some saxophonists love this sax for classical music, but it surprises me when they use the V1 neck because it is the brightest neck that Yamaha makes right now. I only have the E1 and V1 necks, but I have them in different finishes. I highly recommend you trying a gold plated neck for some extra beautiful resonance. I actually now use the solid silver necks (E1 and V1) for both tenor and alto, but I don't recommend the solid silver necks for classical, since it will add extra brightness when you push the volume.... but at lower and mid volumes, the solid silver adds extra warmth and resonance. My first professional sax was the Mark VI, but when Yamaha started the Custom line, I fell in love with the 855 alto and the 875 tenor. I still use my 875 tenor that I purchased in 1996 (now with the new necks). Don't worry about the intonation on the new necks. At least the E1 is as perfect as the V1. I haven't had any experience with the C1. Avoid the silver plated necks... solid silver necks are great.... but the silver plated necks are way too bright. Some people say that silver plating doesn't make that much difference, but on the Yamaha saxes, it makes a big difference. My silver plated tenor neck was actually good for my most mellow tenor mouthpiece, but that was the only mouthpiece that sounded good on it. If you want to try some different necks, you can look at WWBW, Kessler and Sons, Tenor Madness, Sax Alley.... sometimes you will find a good deal on eBay or Reverb. The owner of Tenor Madness called up the Yamaha supplier here in the U.S. to see if he could find a gold plated E1 alto neck for me and he got it to me in a week (he did that for me a year ago). Mr. Kessler called up the Yamaha supplier for me when I became interested in the solid silver necks (I noticed Kessler had the best prices on the solid silver necks). He called me back and helped me get a tenor E1 solid silver neck that had a very small blemish on the finish, which saved me $150 off of Mr. Kessler's already lower price. If anyone is interested in the Yamaha solid silver necks, they come with a clear lacquer coat on top of the silver, so the finish doesn't tarnish.

  • @zachmccord4871
    @zachmccord4871 Год назад +1

    I have checked your channel every day since the last upload and the one day I didn't check you uploaded. lol I love you

  • @peytonwallace9388
    @peytonwallace9388 Год назад +3

    2:21 Yes I love the Brahms sonata!

  • @flutechannel
    @flutechannel Год назад +2

    The time has come!

  • @katherineocampo6952
    @katherineocampo6952 Год назад +4

    it actually does sound nicer and has more overtones than the selmers, especially in the upper register, every ones vibrato suddenly sounded super pro on the new Yamaha

  • @jaydenreed164
    @jaydenreed164 Год назад +1

    i’ve been watching your videos for a while and i played clarinet/bass clarinet but i just got my tenor saxophone! thank you for inspiring me to start saxophone :)

  • @peedrowchan-man102
    @peedrowchan-man102 Год назад +3

    I’m not really paying attention to the vs, just enjoying your gorgeous playing while I make breakfast here
    “Selmer Boys” 😂

  • @alanhirayama4592
    @alanhirayama4592 Год назад +2

    Congrats on your new horn! Hope your 62 finds a new home quickly! Happy Holidays!

  • @joekidd1103
    @joekidd1103 Год назад

    Many years ago, I had a Selmer Mark VI tenor early 1970's vintage. Great horn.

  • @saxophoneworkout
    @saxophoneworkout Год назад +1

    The Selmer Sax Player should noticed that the Intonation is much better on your Yamaha. Especially the Selmer III player. The sound is also more complex. Good Deal! Greatings from a Selmer Player.

  • @prime6091
    @prime6091 Год назад +1

    My friend has a Yamaha Custom EX Soprano and Tenor, and it doesn't float every person's boat, it feels like vanilla frosting, while I want that sort of dark kinda brown chocolate frosting, not saying you cant get a dark sound out of it, but others are better at it.

    • @Dmoll
      @Dmoll Год назад

      I felt this when choosing my soprano. I really like the custom Yamaha soprano saxes, less so the P Mauriat's and the Yanagisawa's. I ended up choosing a Selmer Series II, and I really love the comparison you made there because I was looking for chocolate frosting and I feel like for me, it was the Series II (with the Series III very closely behind, I almost bought that but the Series II won me over)

  • @scomdnz9
    @scomdnz9 Год назад

    Only Selmer I ever played was when I had to borrow my teacher's VI for an audition. My bis key pad came off my 82Z an hour before my audition lol.

  • @ganglezz
    @ganglezz Год назад +3

    They both sounded like classical saxophone to me

  • @rollinjukebox
    @rollinjukebox Год назад

    That dude in the green shirt was spot on with his altissimo. Wish I could get nearly as good as that.

  • @grantkoeller8911
    @grantkoeller8911 Год назад

    All horns are so personal.
    No two saxophones are alike.
    It really boils down to what you are used to.

  • @trobson9952
    @trobson9952 Год назад

    Piece Sounds very clarinet . Like it. Thanks

  • @bobblues1158
    @bobblues1158 Год назад

    These are some bad boys! My ear tells me though that the Yamaha has more of everything. Projection- I can not really evaluate here, but i thought the Yamaha held its own. Also the tuning sounded better even when the other guys played the Yamaha.
    Thanks to you all. And what wonderful players you are. Wow! Love to hear the Supreme and the top Yanagisawa thrown into the mix.

    • @Mr-R.R.
      @Mr-R.R. Год назад

      Playability is the most important thing. If they don't like how it plays, it's a dud

  • @willsayler4607
    @willsayler4607 Год назад

    This threw me for a loop, that was my EXACT setup for a while. Neck strap and all!

  • @rafaeltapia8275
    @rafaeltapia8275 Год назад +1

    Compare to a Yanagisawa now!
    Also, what tune was Eli playing @13:15 ?

  • @johncaswell2648
    @johncaswell2648 Год назад +2

    I'd say it converted me but that's already the one I'd have if cost was no object. But since I'm just an amateur my YAS-23 is good enough for me.

  • @KleinkMusic
    @KleinkMusic Год назад

    It's funny, Otis Murphy is my favorite classical saxophonist. I only heard of him because I played the Fantasia my junior year of high school. It obviously kicked my ass.

  • @jongoforth1405
    @jongoforth1405 8 месяцев назад

    Really strong playing, first and foremost. Musical. I wonder, just as Matthew mentions, is the question that of familiarity versus a horn quality issue. I think it would have added to the mix to get the Selmer guys to switch Selmers-see how that would stack up; possibly see if the Selmers inherently have a definable Selmer core, if that makes any sense. And again, you guys all sound very good. Eli, really good sound. I've always preferred a really good Selmer over a Yamaha (an exception being the "long bow" 134k VI I had compared to a "Purple Label" 62-the 62 was MUCH better), but I wouldn't sell my current VI's for anything but a better Selmer. Finally, what sounds best on this recording? Selmer, no question. You sound better on your personal horns. More "singing", interesting sound. BWDIK?

  • @youinerol
    @youinerol Год назад +4

    AYYY WE MISSED YOU!

  • @DizzySaxophone
    @DizzySaxophone Год назад

    I played a series 2 in high school and for the first half of my undergrad. Then switched to an EX. Honestly not that different but the consistency of Yamaha has won me over. Every brand new EX plays and sounds the same for me, where as I played two Series IIs that were back to back serial numbers when I bought mine and one was a total dog. A good Selmer is great, but all Yamahas are that way it seems.

  • @braedenmorris3160
    @braedenmorris3160 Год назад +1

    The video we’ve all been waiting for

  • @dodoman_2242
    @dodoman_2242 Год назад +1

    The second I heard the etude I started having flashbacks

  • @youstalker3703
    @youstalker3703 Год назад

    Saxologic I need you to upload again… keep up the good work!

  • @randimator9881
    @randimator9881 Год назад +1

    Ofc you had to bring out my ptsd with ferling no.16 and area auditions

  • @keananok
    @keananok Год назад +2

    ferling 22 is my technical this year, had a double take hearing it haha. I can definitely hear more warmth in the ex than the 62, and who knows the differences you feel lol. Have loved my Z for a few years now, but never tried an ex!
    Speaking of ex’s my 875 soprano is currently shipping from wwbw 👀

  • @julianflores1772
    @julianflores1772 8 месяцев назад +1

    6:17 best part HAHA

  • @selmer1971
    @selmer1971 Год назад

    I have the same one in silver plate and love it!

  • @Fnfjkifc
    @Fnfjkifc Год назад

    I love ur vids u have inspired me to be a better sax player, i practice 45min-2hrs a day, i hope to someday be as talented and kind as you 😊

  • @zachlimb2871
    @zachlimb2871 Год назад +1

    Me on my cannonball that hasn't seen a repair shop in at least 5 years.

  • @lararosa6626
    @lararosa6626 Год назад

    I have the yas875EXl and my B key was way to low and my C# was too high making my pinky get stuck frequently. I’m so glad I got it fixed😅

  • @ArtBusker
    @ArtBusker Год назад

    Indudablemente el Custom 875 EX II Es el ganador !!!

  • @andrewbassett_
    @andrewbassett_ Год назад +1

    I’m disappointed.
    Nathan didn’t do his signature knife move. 😢

  • @stangetz534
    @stangetz534 Год назад +1

    I think you just like opening boxes with new saxophones in them. 😂

  • @imautistic3791
    @imautistic3791 4 месяца назад

    What type of neck does the YAS 62III come with?

  • @Zelimited
    @Zelimited Год назад +3

    I can't imagine how many saxophones this man has... (Also where do you keep all your saxes)

  • @sSbiosca8Ss
    @sSbiosca8Ss Год назад

    hello from Catalonia, I love your videos BTW what app you use to create sheet on Ipad??? I saw in one of your videos that u was transcribing a solo in your ipad but I didn’t see what app u was using.
    sorry for my english :)

  • @mspurny9374
    @mspurny9374 Год назад

    Nathan, I’m so close to pulling the trigger on buying the EXii. Did you buy directly from the manufacturer or from a retail store?

  • @austintaylor808
    @austintaylor808 Год назад +2

    Nathan, why did you clip off the high c# in Ferling 22? I love your playing, but I think it would sound much more connected if you would take a shorter breath or not breathe at all. The breath in the first measure sounded more like what I have heard from professional players before. Anyways, please don’t take this as an insult or anything, just a kind suggestion!

    • @Saxologic
      @Saxologic  Год назад +4

      Workin on it! Took 2 years off serious classical, tryna revive it back to life lol

  • @ardacalisir8715
    @ardacalisir8715 Год назад

    Playing with Mr. Lulloff this weekend in Chicago! Im glad you made that reference lmao.

  • @toddjones6946
    @toddjones6946 Год назад +1

    Nice Dahl Concerto 6:45

  • @neilmartinsaxophone
    @neilmartinsaxophone Год назад +4

    RIP knife edits lmao 😭

    • @prcs420
      @prcs420 Год назад

      knew something was off !! damn

    • @Saxologic
      @Saxologic  Год назад +1

      It will come back sporadically

  • @meganbacorn5146
    @meganbacorn5146 Год назад

    When you compared the 3,000 dollar saxophone vs the $250 saxophone my son wanted it for Christmas so I got it for him and within 2 days he could play careless whisperer really well

  • @crsbryan
    @crsbryan Год назад

    To my ears...
    Nathan - 62III > 875EXII
    Andrew - 875EXII > SA80II
    Matthew - SA80III > 875EXII
    Keep in mind differences in setup, condition, neck swaps, not a huge difference.

  • @Sax2108
    @Sax2108 Год назад +1

    Saludos desde Perú, hermano!
    Gracias por subtitulos en español

  • @JorisPosthumus
    @JorisPosthumus Год назад +3

    whats happen with the famoues mark 6?

    • @Saxologic
      @Saxologic  Год назад

      I have it, it got damaged in packaging so I have to send it back, rip

  • @willmitchell6810
    @willmitchell6810 Год назад

    What you were playing for the original sound comparison is that from your book or if not what is it from?

  • @blainewarren601
    @blainewarren601 Год назад

    Just a question on the comparison with the old horn (the yas-62). Did any of the mouthpiece set up change between the saxophones in the yas62 and 875EX comparison? If not, then the 875ex sounded fuller in both the low and higher ranges for sure. I've tried all of the horns throughout the video, including the Super Actions your friends had. My preference between all these horns was also the 875EX.
    I did end up choosing a cannonball(I ordered a custom horn) because I wanted certain custom qualities that they offered for a much smaller price, lol. Some of these qualities i chosewere aesthetic, but the primary thing that I wanted was the ability to have them raise the stones on the side keys to put less distance between my hands and the horn for those. I know it's a small thing, but I always hate when you get the palm key risers and they slide off. I didn't want a horn where I would have to spend thousands on, then immediately spend more money to set it up to my personal feel and preference.

    • @blainewarren601
      @blainewarren601 Год назад

      With what I mentioned, I know most don't need risers for palm keys, I just know my bad habits of raising my hands too far off the horn for palm keys and chose to work on it and also get a horn that would assist in fixing those habits. Lol

  • @n8skittles292
    @n8skittles292 Год назад

    the furling 16 was really nice

  • @FuriousCapCut
    @FuriousCapCut Год назад +2

    NOO U DIDNT DO THE KNIFE THING

  • @skylermichael
    @skylermichael Год назад

    You’re my favorite saxophone RUclipsr and I really wish you posted more often

  • @saxrem
    @saxrem Год назад

    Love the Yamaha! What happened with your Selmer MVI?

  • @MarioEGomez
    @MarioEGomez Год назад

    I hear the difference with the super action. Your Yamaha sounds a tad brighter

  • @curiosa40
    @curiosa40 Год назад +3

    Nice job keep it up!

  • @AndyKirbo
    @AndyKirbo Год назад

    Did Syos stop making light purple colored mouthpieces?

  • @maxharper6288
    @maxharper6288 Год назад +2

    New video yessir

  • @pJay2424
    @pJay2424 Год назад +1

    Hey saxologic I love your vids especially your unboxing.

  • @IsaacGriffin2010
    @IsaacGriffin2010 Год назад

    LESSGO NATHANS BACK

  • @Dontrizzmygyatt
    @Dontrizzmygyatt 11 месяцев назад

    the tmea ferling etude got me off guard

  • @e.curley2325
    @e.curley2325 Год назад

    Of all of the concertos to demonstrate on…

  • @dksax
    @dksax Год назад

    Absolute fire 14:35

  • @FuriousCapCut
    @FuriousCapCut Год назад +2

    etude 3 feeling for region w

  • @VincentLimon
    @VincentLimon Год назад +2

    lol that yamaha kicked those selmers in the butt. selmer bro sounded was bigger on the Yamaha

  • @vegetableguitar
    @vegetableguitar Год назад

    Classic Otis Murphy W

  • @wyndhl8309
    @wyndhl8309 Год назад +6

    Nathan, you and the guys seem to be the ones who taught Mr. Muhle (sp.) and Mr. Rascher how to play European Classical Saxophone 🎷 (smile)
    You guys are exceptional 👏 (and rich, may I add)
    Thanks, champion 🏆

  • @allofalexis05.23
    @allofalexis05.23 Год назад

    Do u ever name ur saxophone when u get them ? Or is it only me ! Bc out band Director last year told us to but I’m in 7th grade band .😊

  • @stangetz534
    @stangetz534 Год назад

    what ever happened to the mark vi that you got from tim lin?

  • @xaviersmith9419
    @xaviersmith9419 Год назад

    Listening, I liked the Yamaha best, the Series II, then the Series III. This coming from a Ref. 54 player. LOL

  • @dr.triangle773
    @dr.triangle773 Год назад +1

    Bro really played the all region music 💀

  • @V15lol
    @V15lol Год назад

    Yamaha ex is so much clearer and darker