Great test! The reason for the difference is that high pressures and temperatures change relatively soluble calcium phosphates into extremely insoluble fluoro and hydroxy-apatites. The higher the pressure and temperature the more insoluble the forms of phosphate.
@@sa7el I've had 2 and I used to specialized in planted fresh tanks. And I'd love another saltwater one. I really want the Nuvo 70 Gallon Drop Off...but funds aren't readily available. I have a box of dry rock sitting and waiting. Hopefully, some day
Over the years, the best tanks I've seen always seem to run calcium reactors. I highly doubt adding a little PO4 is hurting anything. A lot of us have to dose it or over feed like crazy to get PO4. If I had a calcium reactor running, I wouldn't pull it off after seeing these results
If I ever ran a calcium reactor I would run the calcite type media on a saturation style reactor like that deltec or the DaStaCo. You don't have to worry about monitoring PH in the reactor, or buying a fancy CO2 regulator, it is just run by a float switch to meter CO2, along with a dosing pump to meter effluent release. Much simpler with less byproduct. My only concern was that it was so pure that I would miss out on trace elements, but you guys are saying the other medias don't have any of them anyways...I would max out on kalk, then use the deltec to make up the difference. This video pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the matter.
In The Reef Aquarium Volume 3: Science, Art, & Technology by Delbeek and Sprung, they do a really great deep dive into the chemistry behind this, in chapter five Calcium, Alkalinity and pH Maintenance. If anybody is more curious about this, it’s a great book and you can find it pretty cheap.
Always wanted an experiment that demonstrated the phosphate/ and or nitrate added per cube of frozen in a set amount of water. Feel like knowing the inputs would help us all with the export.
I run a DaStaCo. I use the AMS DaStaCo calcium hydroxide. Phosphates are not an issue. The coral growth is, in my experience, incredibly good. Best I have ever seen at home. I don't have anything to compare to.
Interesting but 2 things come to mind: 1. Between the different brands, what are their lot to lot variability? Your testing is admirable but lacks any quantitative and statistical power. 2. Do the effluent phosphate levels change as the media is used up? Is there a higher phosphate contamination on the surface or is it selectively extracted initially (or is it even worse when it's more used up)?
A crazy thought for @BRSTv Investigates: is it reasonable to think that inserting a tumbling GFO reactor to the recirculating plumbing would help with the bound phosphates in the calcium reactor media? Granted, it would involve replumbing the calcium reactor and I'd imagine that you would tee off from the pump, one branch back to the reactor and the second branch to a valved GFO reactor (in order to dial in the tumble rate). The reactor would then output back into the calcium reactor. I'm not sure how the fluid dynamics of this plumbing would work out though and is certainly not for the faint of heart
So many tanks these days struggle with low nutrients, the calcium reactor leeching phosphates may actually be a benefit. Especially considering tanks requiring a reactor generally have high SPS load.
For natural media like Reborn it is normal to have spike of phosphate in tank during first days of using. After first week phosphate pollution is almost 0.
Making it more difficult than it really is,..... raise po4, lower po4, it's too high, it's too low. Each tank is different, one thing for sure, you need to find the right balance and stability and adaptability long term is key. Heck, I use bulk crush coral as my media that I buy from my LFS for my Calrx and I don't bat an eye 😅
I really have a problem keeping nitrates up, my phosphates always climb up and I need to run gfo. It's always been strange that I loose the balance this way. Maybe my carx is the problem, I have always stayed away from hard media because of the low pH melting point.
I have been running a calcium reactor for over 20 years. With using arm and two little fishes. Salt used instance ocean. And Red Sea blue bucket. Phosphate 0.05. No3 5.0 no problems at all
This information settles the Ca-reactor debate for me....I bought a brand new calcium reactor set up last year that I now doubt I’ll ever use. It just never made sense to me to run a Ca-reactor, only to then have to dose kalk, or use other methods to counteract the PH drop. Makes more sense to me to just run low cost Kalk to maintain the PH primarily, then use a more concentrated single alk/calcium solution like Tropic Marin’s Carbo-calcium to supplement the Kalk to maintain dkh levels and not have to dose a lot of it since the bulk of the dosing is the Kalk. My new 120, currently low demand, was a low 7.5 PH, so I set up a well hidden 5 gal bucket of Kalk and dose the amount required to maintain a current PH level of 8.1, and that dosage amount currently maintains a steady 9 dkh. I’ll dose the carbo-calcium in conjunction with the Kalk to keep up the dkh as alk demand increases.
Completely agree. I just don't see the point of buying a ridiculously expensive piece of equipment that's just going to lower PH and increase phosphate. I've been running Tropic Marin's balling method for years now and it's just so simple.
When you dose your kalk do you over fill the tank and need to take out water? I run a naturally saturated kalk solution to top off my tank water on my 150 and still have to dose lots of two part to make up what’s used. I think my PH is usually over 8. The lights are out right now and it’s 8.27.
@@wesleyturner1979 I dose my kalk from a 5 gallon bucket like normal 2-part dosing from a container, totally separate from my ATO. Dosing kalk from an ATO presents more challenges so I don’t dose it in that manner. Hope that clarifies.
@@bdanz5851 you would think that it would produce salinity issue but I guess you don’t dose more than you would top off in a day. Does your top off reservoir last forever?
@@wesleyturner1979 No information I’ve researched shows that Kalk affects salinity from the typical amounts dosed in a tank. My top of reservoir is 30 gallons, so it doesn't last “forever“....more like a month or so.
Chaeto sucks of phosphate like a sponge. I have to strip my fuge all the time. I bet a fuge with a big ball of chaeto would be a good combo with a calcium reactor.
Great video and mind blowing results. 👍 So does the phosphate concentrated on the surface area, as left behind when the animal died, or is it binded deep into the calcium carbonate structure? Is it possible to design a test to answer that?
Ryan and Randy actually discussed your question in yesterday's live stream, but we could absolutely design a test to answer that question. It would probably entail running the calcium reactor for a set period of time, letting the outer layer dissolve, rinsing the media, then restarting the experiment.
Ok so what if I'm interested in keeping a ph of between 7.4 and 7.6 and I want to add calcium and magnesium in a freshwater aquarium. Should I just stick to using Seachem Replenish. I am really hoping to solve this with a reactor. I'm doing an experiment where I will be running nitrate and phosphate resin reactors as well as a carbon reactor at different flow rates. To keep everything balanced I was hoping to run a mineral reactor but I need a higher ph than the one mentioned. Is this possible?
We actually do recommend calcium reactors in many cases and use them on a few of the larger tanks around the BRS office. It's just good to know all of the information before making a choice on the right media for your reactor. If you've got low phosphate, then picking a media with higher phosphate concentrations would actually be beneficial! 🙂
Gfo will help lower your phosphates and look into potassium nitrate to help raise your nitrates.. please, take your time at rasing you nitrates.. maybe 1ppm per week..
Stump killer… literally. From what I have gathered, Nitrate and phosphate have a symbiotic relationship like calcium and alk. If you add Nitrate, your phosphate should drop. Spectracide stump remover is apparently pure potassium nitrate. I add this when my nitrate is low after I mix 1 tablespoon with a cup of RODI water. Do your own research and start slow if you try it, it works for me!
Am geologist. Am scoffing. Unfortunately you can't make these conclusions about why there is more or less phosphorus in these materials. There is a lot that happens after materials are buried (diagenesis) that can have a tremendous impact on the composition of the rock. Interesting theories and might have some truth to them, but overall its a gross oversimplification of why some rocks are different than others.
Oh Randy. The chemistry part was 100% pure cringe. Do we know for a fact that they are not man made carbonates? I would start there. Besides the reborn all of the others could be manufactured in a facility. It would be good to test other methods like kalk and two part. Good work other than the pseudo science discussion.
I hope this video didn't come across as criticizing calcium reactors as a whole, but rather a deeper dive into the different types of media that the reefing community uses. Hopefully this video can help calcium reactor users make an informed decision on the media that they use, especially if they're already dealing with phosphate issues in their tanks. As a side note, we should keep in mind that the effluent might have a seemingly high amount of phosphate coming out of it, but it will be much lower once diluted in the larger aquarium water volume.
Great test! The reason for the difference is that high pressures and temperatures change relatively soluble calcium phosphates into extremely insoluble fluoro and hydroxy-apatites. The higher the pressure and temperature the more insoluble the forms of phosphate.
I love watching these. I don't even own a saltwater tank.
Yet
What are you waiting for?! Join the real life 😅😂
@@sa7el I've had 2 and I used to specialized in planted fresh tanks. And I'd love another saltwater one. I really want the Nuvo 70 Gallon Drop Off...but funds aren't readily available. I have a box of dry rock sitting and waiting. Hopefully, some day
I used to own a salt water tank and watching these videos makes me want to own one again.
@@danielmaldonado1074 I'm right with you. I moved and sold mine, too avoid having to deal with it. But I do miss it in some ways
Over the years, the best tanks I've seen always seem to run calcium reactors. I highly doubt adding a little PO4 is hurting anything. A lot of us have to dose it or over feed like crazy to get PO4.
If I had a calcium reactor running, I wouldn't pull it off after seeing these results
I agree but why is it superior maybe it contains some special minerals from the death corals?
I feel you! I need to cut down the lighting time on my fuge due to the lack of phosphate and nitrate in my water column.
If I ever ran a calcium reactor I would run the calcite type media on a saturation style reactor like that deltec or the DaStaCo. You don't have to worry about monitoring PH in the reactor, or buying a fancy CO2 regulator, it is just run by a float switch to meter CO2, along with a dosing pump to meter effluent release. Much simpler with less byproduct. My only concern was that it was so pure that I would miss out on trace elements, but you guys are saying the other medias don't have any of them anyways...I would max out on kalk, then use the deltec to make up the difference. This video pretty much confirmed my thoughts on the matter.
In The Reef Aquarium Volume 3: Science, Art, & Technology by Delbeek and Sprung, they do a really great deep dive into the chemistry behind this, in chapter five Calcium, Alkalinity and pH Maintenance. If anybody is more curious about this, it’s a great book and you can find it pretty cheap.
Always wanted an experiment that demonstrated the phosphate/ and or nitrate added per cube of frozen in a set amount of water. Feel like knowing the inputs would help us all with the export.
One of my favorite channels by far. Always learn something new about the hobby, even after 13 years.
I run a DaStaCo. I use the AMS DaStaCo calcium hydroxide. Phosphates are not an issue. The coral growth is, in my experience, incredibly good. Best I have ever seen at home. I don't have anything to compare to.
Interesting but 2 things come to mind:
1. Between the different brands, what are their lot to lot variability? Your testing is admirable but lacks any quantitative and statistical power.
2. Do the effluent phosphate levels change as the media is used up? Is there a higher phosphate contamination on the surface or is it selectively extracted initially (or is it even worse when it's more used up)?
Good question, does the media become less contaminated the more it melts?
A crazy thought for @BRSTv Investigates: is it reasonable to think that inserting a tumbling GFO reactor to the recirculating plumbing would help with the bound phosphates in the calcium reactor media? Granted, it would involve replumbing the calcium reactor and I'd imagine that you would tee off from the pump, one branch back to the reactor and the second branch to a valved GFO reactor (in order to dial in the tumble rate). The reactor would then output back into the calcium reactor. I'm not sure how the fluid dynamics of this plumbing would work out though and is certainly not for the faint of heart
So many tanks these days struggle with low nutrients, the calcium reactor leeching phosphates may actually be a benefit. Especially considering tanks requiring a reactor generally have high SPS load.
Do not over-react to this video. More to the story.
Lol
For natural media like Reborn it is normal to have spike of phosphate in tank during first days of using. After first week phosphate pollution is almost 0.
Went from wanting to have fish, to corals. Now, I'm thinking of taking up science.
If you end up with a reef tank you’re going to end up with all of it! Get out your beakers and goggles!
Making it more difficult than it really is,..... raise po4, lower po4, it's too high, it's too low. Each tank is different, one thing for sure, you need to find the right balance and stability and adaptability long term is key. Heck, I use bulk crush coral as my media that I buy from my LFS for my Calrx and I don't bat an eye 😅
I would be interested to see the results with dolomite lime
I really have a problem keeping nitrates up, my phosphates always climb up and I need to run gfo. It's always been strange that I loose the balance this way. Maybe my carx is the problem, I have always stayed away from hard media because of the low pH melting point.
Thanks ! I loved the science, logic, and insight.
These videos are a great resource for educating us novices.
Shows BRSTV's integrity while simultaneously improving other peoples aquariums hehe.
I wish Seachem media had been tested too, as it appears to be calcite and is more affordable in certain parts of the globe.
I have been running a calcium reactor for over 20 years. With using arm and two little fishes. Salt used instance ocean. And Red Sea blue bucket. Phosphate 0.05. No3 5.0 no problems at all
This channels biology and chemistry is continually improving. Nice video guys
do kalkwasser! :D
This information settles the Ca-reactor debate for me....I bought a brand new calcium reactor set up last year that I now doubt I’ll ever use. It just never made sense to me to run a Ca-reactor, only to then have to dose kalk, or use other methods to counteract the PH drop. Makes more sense to me to just run low cost Kalk to maintain the PH primarily, then use a more concentrated single alk/calcium solution like Tropic Marin’s Carbo-calcium to supplement the Kalk to maintain dkh levels and not have to dose a lot of it since the bulk of the dosing is the Kalk. My new 120, currently low demand, was a low 7.5 PH, so I set up a well hidden 5 gal bucket of Kalk and dose the amount required to maintain a current PH level of 8.1, and that dosage amount currently maintains a steady 9 dkh. I’ll dose the carbo-calcium in conjunction with the Kalk to keep up the dkh as alk demand increases.
Completely agree. I just don't see the point of buying a ridiculously expensive piece of equipment that's just going to lower PH and increase phosphate. I've been running Tropic Marin's balling method for years now and it's just so simple.
When you dose your kalk do you over fill the tank and need to take out water? I run a naturally saturated kalk solution to top off my tank water on my 150 and still have to dose lots of two part to make up what’s used. I think my PH is usually over 8. The lights are out right now and it’s 8.27.
@@wesleyturner1979 I dose my kalk from a 5 gallon bucket like normal 2-part dosing from a container, totally separate from my ATO. Dosing kalk from an ATO presents more challenges so I don’t dose it in that manner. Hope that clarifies.
@@bdanz5851 you would think that it would produce salinity issue but I guess you don’t dose more than you would top off in a day. Does your top off reservoir last forever?
@@wesleyturner1979 No information I’ve researched shows that Kalk affects salinity from the typical amounts dosed in a tank. My top of reservoir is 30 gallons, so it doesn't last “forever“....more like a month or so.
Chaeto sucks of phosphate like a sponge. I have to strip my fuge all the time. I bet a fuge with a big ball of chaeto would be a good combo with a calcium reactor.
Great video and mind blowing results. 👍 So does the phosphate concentrated on the surface area, as left behind when the animal died, or is it binded deep into the calcium carbonate structure? Is it possible to design a test to answer that?
Ryan and Randy actually discussed your question in yesterday's live stream, but we could absolutely design a test to answer that question. It would probably entail running the calcium reactor for a set period of time, letting the outer layer dissolve, rinsing the media, then restarting the experiment.
Ok so what if I'm interested in keeping a ph of between 7.4 and 7.6 and I want to add calcium and magnesium in a freshwater aquarium. Should I just stick to using Seachem Replenish. I am really hoping to solve this with a reactor. I'm doing an experiment where I will be running nitrate and phosphate resin reactors as well as a carbon reactor at different flow rates. To keep everything balanced I was hoping to run a mineral reactor but I need a higher ph than the one mentioned. Is this possible?
What is that coral in the tank behind you at 6.07 behind the purple tang, a montipo, like the colour
That's a hollywood stunner chalice
HW marine has .04 phosphate out of box? 2 little fishes still the best because it gives a higher dkh, higher ph melt point so less Co2 to deal with.
Just about all salt mixes have at least a little phosphate in them.
They will not recommend as they want you to keep buying two part solution to dose your tank as well as phosphate additives to increase your PO4 level.
We actually do recommend calcium reactors in many cases and use them on a few of the larger tanks around the BRS office. It's just good to know all of the information before making a choice on the right media for your reactor. If you've got low phosphate, then picking a media with higher phosphate concentrations would actually be beneficial! 🙂
Thats it reactor is coming out from my tank. All that time and its rasing my phosphate instead of my alk. Welcome back all for reef
My nitrates are 0 and phosphate is .25 how do I lower phosphate and raise nitrate?
Gfo will help lower your phosphates and look into potassium nitrate to help raise your nitrates.. please, take your time at rasing you nitrates.. maybe 1ppm per week..
Stump killer… literally. From what I have gathered, Nitrate and phosphate have a symbiotic relationship like calcium and alk. If you add Nitrate, your phosphate should drop. Spectracide stump remover is apparently pure potassium nitrate. I add this when my nitrate is low after I mix 1 tablespoon with a cup of RODI water. Do your own research and start slow if you try it, it works for me!
I ran 3 reef tabks for years without dosing calcium. Dont need it.
Am geologist. Am scoffing.
Unfortunately you can't make these conclusions about why there is more or less phosphorus in these materials. There is a lot that happens after materials are buried (diagenesis) that can have a tremendous impact on the composition of the rock. Interesting theories and might have some truth to them, but overall its a gross oversimplification of why some rocks are different than others.
why do people use the acronyms CaRx when Rx itself means a prescription 🤦🏽♂️😂 lord help me
The hobby is full of abbreviations...some better than others 😆
Oh Randy. The chemistry part was 100% pure cringe. Do we know for a fact that they are not man made carbonates? I would start there. Besides the reborn all of the others could be manufactured in a facility. It would be good to test other methods like kalk and two part. Good work other than the pseudo science discussion.
BRS originated by selling two part. Does it surprise anyone that they would criticize a calcium reactor?
I hope this video didn't come across as criticizing calcium reactors as a whole, but rather a deeper dive into the different types of media that the reefing community uses. Hopefully this video can help calcium reactor users make an informed decision on the media that they use, especially if they're already dealing with phosphate issues in their tanks.
As a side note, we should keep in mind that the effluent might have a seemingly high amount of phosphate coming out of it, but it will be much lower once diluted in the larger aquarium water volume.
this is a dumpster fire of money
Oversaturated kalkwasser slurry doesn't have phosphates and raises ph! @telegraham #teammilk