copy and paste a random 300 or less segment of the transcript of this video and tell ChatGpt Demo to turn it into song lyrics. That will give you ideas for songs, the program is fairly good at using rhyme and putting it into song form.
Not all of it, by a large part. Sure, some of it requires effort, but more than that, it has to be heard in the first place. And to keep saying it requires effort is going to keep some people away.
I've always felt Frank's "misogyny" was contextual. He was an equal opportunity offender. He wasn't "anti-woman", he was "anti-stupidity", and he blasted all stupidity when and wherever he saw it, regardless of gender or any other categorization. He just didn't put women on a pedestal and give them a pass because they were "fragile flowers of femininity", no more than he gave hippies, corrupt evangelicals, the entire music business, or anyone else a pass for their various flaws. The fact that he called shenanigans on women just meant it was their turn. Remember, he roasted stupid male behavior much more than he did stupid female behavior, and nobody ever called him out for misandry (I learned a new word today...), though probably only because he didn't live long enough. Does it occasionally make me uncomfortable? Sure. It's absolutely meant to, and that's what provokes critical thinking, if you have the capacity. Thanks for provoking thoughts once again AE!
Perfect encapsulation. This trait of his led to one of his most acclaimed public outings, when calling out the stupidity of the PMRC on national TV and before Congress.
Sure. Let's keep justifying misogyny. Frank, afterall was a gentleman and a supremely rational being. How dare anybody call out his misogyny for what it was. (Of course we also have to take into account that the cultural context of the times was somewhat more patriarchal than the one found today)
Well, see the lyrics to songs like "Fine Girl", "Easy Meat" and "Bamboozled By Love". And that's just from one album. Those songs could be very uncomfortable to listen to already in the 80s.
OK. I've been moved to comment. And I'm a W.O.M.A.N who loves prog and metal and all the rest of the stuff that some gentlemen seem to think requires an XY chromosome. Be honest, though, Zappa is a difficult artist to 'like'. Some of it is puerile, performative horseshit and some of it is genius. And there you have the Zappmeister in a nutshell. Is he taking the piss, or is he a magician that only *seems* like he's taking the piss? I'll be honest, I have to be in precisely the right state of mind to listen to Zappa these days and I'm now too old and too cranky to put up with a lot of it. Hot Rats will tide me over though, so he gets a pass for being tosser-adjacent. *** *** Other opinions are available
The worst of his Funny Stuff is painful - he spent too much of the second half of his career in a mechanical smut metal rut, seemingly writing for Beavis and Butthead before they came along. It's the other stuff that's kept me absorbed and cheered up for thirty years. 'Tosser-adjacent' is justified, and quotable. Have you got Huddersfield connections with a surname like that, by the way?
@@notreallydavid Sorry about the chromosome crack, guys but ever since Danny Baker (yes, that arbiter of good taste) announced unilaterally that "girls don't like Prog", I come out swinging! For myself, I find it perfectly possible to enjoy quite complex, difficult music without having to make an *effort*. Too many times my attempts with Zappa have been met with a big eff off from yer man. Well, OK then, mate, I have less annoying things to do. As for my name. Not sure about Huddersfield but my husband's family are certainly from Yorkshire/Lancashire. :)
When I was younger I thought a lot of Zappa's later lyrics were too silly. Now I enjoy it all. I see him as the Robert Crumb of music. He's underrated as a guitar player too.
There is quite simply no other artist in rock or popular music or music in general like Frank Zappa. Love him, hate him, he was unique and I for one greatly miss him.
Love Dumb all Over. I find Zappa's music uplifting. If I am ever feeling sorry for myself, five minutes of Zappa will make me feel like an imbecile for doing so.
I appreciate that he was brilliant as a composer/writer, that he had a sense of humor pervading much of his work, which is somewhat rare in music, and that he was a talented guitarist. I have enjoyed bits and pieces of his work over the years. However, artists who operate so consistently in a postmodernist ironic mode may amuse me or make me think sometimes, but they rarely make me feel anything deeply, and Frank is no exception.
I understand your criticism and it's a valid one, but some of his instrumental work is very moving. Zappa was a multifaceted artist, unlike any other in popular music.
@@Darrylizer1I think a great melody or musical idea is inherently moving, whether or not the piece in question is overtly emotional. There's a lot of 'Hell, YES!' to be had in the Frank corpus.
@@notreallydavid This is true. I just listened to You Can't Do That Onstage Anymore Vol. 2 live in Helsinki while working and the entire thing is hell yes! I stopped several times just to listen. Not so great for productivity.
The moments of Frank's music that have truly moved me are all instrumental. There are some lyrics of his out there that I enjoy, but oftentimes they're in the "grin and bear it" category.
Tried and never managed to engage with Zappa. Mates who I respect love him and look at his band members! So I cant slag him off but he just leaves me cold
You gotta remember before you write him off, that he went through many musical styles. Maybe you haven't heard the style of music from him that may interest you.
You know, I understand that the music is from another time, and some of it can be a rough listen because of the lyrics. But it's not just that with Zappa. Listening to him sometimes feels like having someone in your house who thinks he's a genius and talks on and on about how everyone else around him is an idiot. It's in his lyrics, his delivery, and his tone in interviews. Then he's like, "Wanna hear some new music I made that you’ll enjoy if you have an advanced understanding of what great music really is, and where the lyrics also address some of these issues with everyone around me being idiots?" No thanks, Mr. Zappa. I'd rather hear The Little House I Used to Live In, Big Swify, or Orange County Lumber Truck. That's some really cool music. Edit: All that said: I enjoy your channel and your takes on things (not all of them off course, but there's a nice balance). Will follow your music education series indeed!
This. Exactly this. And also, being a member of the FZ 'fan club' is more akin to a cult. His band members also seem to have Stockholme syndrome. Not me. I don't do cults.
I'm a big fan of much of Frank's music, but you're exactly right on this. Plus he had this annoying habit of boiling everyone down to "types." Everyone was a type to Frank. Not an individual. Only Frank and his pals were individuals. Also, I believe it was Simpsons creator, Matt Groenig, a HUGE Zappa fan, who said he'd experienced humor in music before, but with Frank the humor had more of a sneering quality. I'd say that's pretty accurate as well.
@@pkmcburroughs Yes! And I think Ween, another band that often gets compared to Zappa-mostly because of their humor in music and experiments in many genres-has said something similar as well. I'm not a big Ween fan, but you do feel the difference.
A great video! I absorbed Zappa’s music second-hand, through my brother. He must have bought maybe 40 Zappa albums. I loved Zappa’s most sophisticated music - The Black Page and Studio Tan were favourites - but his Lenny Bruce standup persona mostly didn’t appeal to me. There was one exception: Joe’s Garage. It seemed to be a true “rock opera” in the vein of Tommy. When, on Packard Goose, the vision of Mary announces, “information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music, music is the best…” I sensed for once that Zappa was not being ironic or sarcastic, or anything other than achingly sincere.
Prog musc killed a generation of their young fans' creative outlet. Punk solved that problem and was a reaction to prog only for this reason. Prog required its musicians to have so much virtuosity that its fans were put off from creating, the only option left for fans of that music was appreciation. Punk music gave back the rights to young people to start over, do their own thing, with minimal skills, and thus create something, find their own voice, and react, rather than just appreciate and idolize. I experienced this thing myself as a young music fan and player, I also hear this from not music critics but punk, post punk, post hardcore musicians themselves. I was just listening to a recent podcast interview with Shudder to Think vocalist and he said the same thing. Being a fan of prog and fusion in my teens and twenties, I did not find the courage to write my own music until I discovered punk, post punk, post hardcore, and post rock music, I was chained until then.
Hearing what Moon Zappa said about her childhood puts Frank Zappa in a different light for me. Even more surprising given that she played a role in his career. But I guess we cannot assume that being a creative genius guarantees ethical character or parenting responsibilities and behavior we would expect from most people. But by definition, being unconventional in creative endeavors, it should not surprise us that such a person does not follow our conventions in other areas. Not giving Zappa a pass, but we cannot hold up the mirror of our conventions to an unconventional person and expect it will reflect the values and principles we expect from ourselves.
Zappa’s music is best listened live. Went to a Zappa Plays Zappa gig and it was insane, probably the best live music I ever saw. Hearing that complicated stuff being played and loud is different to hearing the album, makes the annoying tones listenable and less annoying, has you worshipping the musicians.
I always thought that the fact that Zappa riddled his music with silly lyrics and wackiness made the overall works even better. It’s almost as if Zappa was flexing by doing that. Like he had such confidence in the music that he knew he could drench it in wackiness and the greatness of the music would still shine through. And for me that makes it even better. There’s a great interview of George Duke speaking about this where he’s recalling the intro to Inca Roads and how it begins with this beautiful musical landscape but then Zappa "messes it up." George questioned why Zappa would mess up his music, and Zappa’s response was that "it needs to be messed up." Brilliant
"I’m from Brazil and have been following your channel for a long time. I’m amazed at how much I agree with you on almost everything. First of all, I’m a huge fan of Mahavishnu Orchestra and the master John McLaughlin, and of course, Frank Zappa. Congratulations, your channel is sensational and, humour-wise, flawless."
Frank Zappa opened me to the music of Edgard Varèse and Wes Montgomery (liner notes of an album)--that is, to contemporary classical music and jazz. he visited Montreal almost every year from 67 ; I saw him every time I could afford it, and every time, his show blew my mind. I owe him a lot and I'm grateful to have seen him and the Mothers live.
@@markmyra-cn7rd Yeah, I do. Why don't you use your critical thinking skills to figure it out. Here, I'll help you out. You cite his music as a cultural challenge which invokes critical thinking. I cited a period of music which I thought was self indulgent, stupid, and filled inside jokes, that were completely devoid of critical thinking culminating in the critical thinking masterpiece of "200 Motels" which was based on secret recordings by Mark Volman of various band members.
@@TheeRobertPhoenix well now, I think, you have mistaken me for someone Who cares. It seems that your point is. You like patting yourself on the back for being such an expert. Do you think this is a competition? I do not. But a mirror, might be a good opponent,,for you. Maybe some great thoughts will sqeek out, that all of humanity will be forever grateful.
I used to think Zappa was pretentious crap…. Once I listened to him, and a nice joint… it hit me! Zappa is not pretentious crap… I’M THE PRETENTIOUS ONE! FULL OF CRAP, I AM! Anyways, I repented and now I am off to listen to Roxy by Proxy recommended to me by one Andy Edwards! Right on, eh!
Andy, I love this episode! As a music fan, whose lack of knowledge on Zappa could fill the Encyclopaedia Britannica, I do love peaches in regalia, gorgeous piece of music. I believe as an American born in 1955 that my baby boomer generation was probably the most spoiled and coddled of all people, the factors for that were the incredible financial success of the USA after World War II and the G.I. Bill, which allowed people like my father a poor working class Italian kid who served at the end of World War II to truly have a middle-class life in the American dream . What sued was that? We grew up with a certain amount of affluence that no lower class kids before us could imagine. But we were helped and not solely guilty of what happened to us. Starting with television, and the four mention affluence in the states as well as Madison Avenue , not only selling to our parents, but also to us as toddlers and children and teenagers every possible consumable good that we could imagine it definitely in my opinion to delirious effects later in our lives! I believe many of the baby boom, was spoiled and felt entitled to so much And to have their gratifications met and that might’ve led to the age of Aquarius hippie dumb drugs, rampant sex, and all the other excesses that came with the rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle of the late 60s and 70s bracket {I was not immune from some of these excesses], and who’s to say if it was for good or for ill??? I believe Zappa really express those excesses whether he was goofing on it or truly just a part of it I don’t know? Anyway a great show and maybe if humanity survives these days future historians will ridicule what happened in the middle to late part of humans 20th century!?!?? Thanks brother you give us a lot of food for thought that we’re not gonna get from Rick Beato not saying I don’t like him. I’m just saying we’re not gonna get that from Beato , another pompous message from your little friend Jerry Potente 872L O L
I meant about 4 or 5 lines down what ensued from that was the richest period in United States history that had a profound effect on the middle class, upwardly, striving families, and their children.
There have been a couple of vault releases lately of the band with Ruth Underwood. On one, during the introduction of the band, he introduces Ruth as “the one in the back with the big t*ts…”. In another it’s “and in the back smelling good between the legs…”. Look, I know it was the 70s (I was actually alive and buying FZ records). Regardless, these were still ass-holic ways to introduce a great musician (I don’t recall any other member of the band getting that sort of introduction).
every band members was mocked while being introduced (often not always obviously, like ruth wasn't always introduced that way) ray white on fake guitar for example
Yeah, that's just a matter of not hearing enough of Zappa's live performances. He gave every member of his bands a ton of crap and I think it's safe to assume that it was well within context of their professional and personal relationships. We're on the outside tryna look in.
Quite brilliant, you have totally reinvigorated my interest in music. I have albums by the four artists mentioned and have now dug them up from my collection to listen again.
I would image that people who are as driven towards a vision artistically as frank was, are quite narcissistic in behavior and nature. I think it comes with the territory and explains the disregard for the feelings of others.
His music is provoking, complex, and very intriguing. His attempts at humour and social commentary are often not funny enough and/or heavy-handed and obnoxious. I feel Frank often fails as a comedian but never as a musician/composer (whereas I find you, Mr. Edwards, to be a very funny bloke). I pick and choose with Zappa’s catalogue but there is a lot of great stuff to be sure.
Thank you, Andy. Incredibly insightful. Political philosopher Vlad Vexler has expressed similar themes about hyper identity politics and Western de-politicization. It is amazing that you can arrive at similar conclusions from your musical background. Please consider this a compliment, as for me, Vlad Vexler is an incredibly intelligent political philosopher. I also appreciate your comments in other videos about English aesthetics. For context, I am a 67 year old American, Canadian dual citizen.
I think it was during Frank's appearance on the the King Biscuit Flower Hour, he described his music as a blend of Vaudeville and investigative journalism.
My friend came up with a nice description of Zappa`s music. He said "If there was an inderdimensional music festival with artists from different galaxies and realities - Frank Zappa would still be among the headliners"
He’s a great musician/composer/arranger.. Call me uptight, but I can never have my kids be nannied by groupie chick/s hanging out in my house like he did..
Zappa is a misanthrope and in that regard, he's an equal opportunity misanthrope. I'm not a fan of his singing if you can call it that. I think his doo wop love affair with Flo and Eddie and their stupid jokes was incredibly self indulgent. When he steps into the fusion stuff without the singing and his love affair with atonality, my ears open. But my main complaint of Frank Zappa is his absolute contempt for writing conventional songs or songs that have more or less a conventional structure. He's too good for it--but when he does, on a track like "Dirty Love" he's actually way more than just competent, but of course it's a more conventional song that's not just about sex, but low down, dirty sex. So Zappa does a Zappa thing and he gives us a more conventional tune, he's going to make sure it won't get any airplay. My final take on Zappa; He's the Mussolini of Rock. A soft fascist tyrant in his own family where the meals ran on time.
Thank you Andy, very thoughtful speech. I agree with most of what you say. About the music side of things, Zappa has been one of my favorite musicians (with Shostakovich and Led Zeppelin among others) and music has always been very important in my life (as a listener), hence Zappa’s music has been that too and always is after 50 years of listening to it. On the “philosophical” side of things, I agree with you about how utopian and righteous politics is leading us towards disaster. I am a leftist but 1 lesson history teaches us, I think is that every time someone talked about the need to create a “new man” to create a “perfect society”, it’s time to run and run fast.
I disagree with Zappa doing that around his kids! Clearly for that he was not totally morally intact; however, I would like to see further proof that he actually hates woman before I would call him misogynistic. As for the antisemitism. They say, 'you can call it antisemitic, but is it a lie?'. Everyone has their flaws, but Zappa clearly understood a great deal about the nature of woman, powerful lobbies within the USA and western nations governments and the social conditioning of 1960s. For this and his prolific contribution to music, I respect him!
@@rustybeltway2373 yeah I can't listen to any of the Flo and Eddie era. Roy Estrada is a convicted pedophile/rapist, so anything that prominently features him I can't take for too long. Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo, that stuff gets the most spins at my place.
@@goatuscrow4135 High regard for Uncle Meat. The overall sound, the tunes, the horn parts, beautiful Ray Anthony... Meat, Weasels, Burt Weenie...they hang together in my mind. But Meat is special. The lethargic drum beat on Son of Mr Green Genes...solid Dog Breath...the repeating horn motifs....Doo woo....Frank lead guitar....it's all here. Plus King Kong!!!!!!!
@@rustybeltway2373 Have you checked out “Meat Light”? It is, I think, a must have re- issue. And the album that is its companion piece for me is “Trout Mask Replica”, both released around the same time.
I went through a heavy Mr Bungle (and Zorn / Naked City) phase in the early - mid 90s before I ever heard a note of Zappa. By the time I did hear Zappa music, I already could access and appreciate less silly recordings of my favorite musicians that were in Zappa's lineups. And I had already burned out on that non-pretentious avant garde-esque ethos of excelling in musical performance in complete service to absurdist / taboo themes. I know that went backwards in musical lineage, but in my case Zappa just never had anything to pique my interest whatsoever.
I think Frank had the same filter as most of us, but his was turned off. He just told it as he saw it and you could take it or leave it. The only way I got people to understand Frank who didn't but should have, was take them to a show. 100% conversion rate 🙂 I'm also a little suspicious that some tracks he put on to upset the people who would like the rest of the album, sometimes more than one. Very few of his albums hold a constant pattern as most of the songs were recorded over a period of time with different musicians. One Size Fits All is to me the one that lives closest to title, but I have them all and love them all for the same reason. Last true genius composer in rock music [if you have to label it]. I think I'm with Frank. I don't really care what genre it is as long as it's worth listening to and, in the vast majority of Frank's work, it is. I can also 100% guarantee you won't like it all, but it will open your ears to many forms of music and composition that if you stick in a musical rut, you'll probably never get round to hearing. Frank is, without doubt, the WORST artist when someone asks you which album to listen to first ! I have to go with tour bands as they make more sense than the chronology of the recordings. Frank & Miles, can't fault your choice there although the other two are probably a bit subjective 😊 I'm surprised that you didn't mention that John McLaughlin was with Miles too. Both Frank & Miles seemed to have a knack of finding great players, then getting them to go one step beyond their comfort zone to produce something really special. Both bands were melting pots for great musicians. I can't think of any other two composers who have sent me in as many musical directions as Miles & Frank, but at least with Miles you can probably pick an album to play to someone who hasn't heard him based on what the new listener likes. Frank ? No chance. With Frank it was always time for the 'Mix Tape' rather than any one album [or I'd lend them Weasels]. The oceans of harmony on 'Peaches' ? Beautiful. And that's just ONE track. Frank rewards patient listeners who can see beyond the spoilers to the golden notes underneath. He did enough instrumentals to get by on if you really can't handle the 'social commentary'. Flo & Eddie period is least favourite. 73/75 bands probably my favourite. Couldn't live without any of them.
From the Venus De Milo (Alexandros) to the Rokeby Venus (Velazquez, which has been attacked by Suffragettes to Feminists to Climate Activists) to drawings of Women Masturbating (by Klimt & Schiele) to 'Bad Boy' and other works (by Eric Fischl) to 'The 9 Prettiest Bottoms in The National Gallery' (paintings by Peter Blake, made during a residency at The National Gallery, London, 1994-96) to nude paintings by Lucian Freud etc . . . Should we destroy all those old (and more modern & contemporary) paintings and sculptures of female nudes (and male nudes) in the national and international museums and galleries, because our 21st century morals and aesthetics say it is wrong or immoral and/or misogynistic to look at these works? (let alone confess to liking them!) Discuss:
Andy, what you said Made me think of How the Panos Cosmatos film Mandy, reflects the evolution of the counter culture values at it's worst. And i'd even argue that they aré not even being twisted at all but instead; It just just a natural extensión of them. Anyway, as for the second part. I am just reminded of a certainty phrase: Every villain Is the hero of their own story. I think that in the moment that you aré setting yourself of a certainty group into a path of so called righteousness you aré setting up yourself to fail, because when you adopt that label, from your point of View you aré no longer capable of doing wrong. I find that idea fascinating because It dictates some of the Most horrific and world shattering acts in history.
I love everything up to the “Flo & Eddie” era which hasn’t aged well at all. Humour that was close to the bone in the 1970s just seems pointlessly puerile today and gets in the way of the music. There are flashes of great quality (“Apostrophe”, “Zoot Allures”) but it’s a bit hit and miss for me after that. Give me “In it for the Money”, “Weasels”, “Absolutely Free” and “Uncle Meat” and I’m a happy chappie 😎
'Art is the organisation of sensuous impressions into pleasing formal relations which express the sensibilty of the artist and convey to their audience a sense of values which can transform their lives.' Sangharakshita
I read Moon Unit Zappa's book. After that I still like the music and many of the quotes, but feel sorry for the dysfunctional private/family life of FZ. 👍🎶🖖
You've certainly bitten off a hefty wedge of pop morality with this one Andy and kudos for that. Zappa, like all humans, was imperfect. Many of his earlier compositions I think were brilliant. The 70s introduced a more sleazy element into his work which I didn't find as funny or smart as Zappa obviously did. I saw Zappa and his new band live at the Collosium in London in 1970. As an impressionable 17 year old at the time I was impressed but still preferred the original Mothers of Invention.
At least Miles can rationalize his behavior due to his addiction...a sad excuse But Zappa committed his debauchery seemingly clear headed. I guess we have to start listening to sinless musicians like...Oh wait. There aren't any.
My stepdad used to play Zappa when I was a kid and it repulsed me, everything about it, the music, the grotesque covers, the perverse vibe, how he looks. I'd sometimes have to leave the house. This strong dislike, almost a fear, lasted my whole life, so I felt I had to listen to him now to get over this irrational aversion. I listened to Hot Rats and Freak Out! and got over it. There's talent and creativity, for sure, but I still can't enjoy it. My point is keep it away from children, it's deeply disturbing to an 8 year old mind, lol
You can play Hot Rats or any instrumental work to children perfectly fine. It might make them appreciate good music at its finest. No need to show them weird lyrical stuff tho lol
I'm so happy about your examination of zappas' actual words instead of music .That's what truly sets him apart from other artists. A bit of a modern profit , Whose words pop up in my mind very often. Especially these days. I'm willing to bet he would have some interesting things to say about our time , and I'm willing to bet they would be surprising.
I purchased Them or US the day it came out. It was the first digital record I ever bought. I took the train to New York from Philly to See both nights of Does Humor belong in music. I had an idea of what the album was going to be like. After its release I saw him do 2 shows in one night at the Tower Theater in Upper Darby PA. I started to listen to him in 1976 when I was ten. I also bought a used copy of Hot Rats when I was 11. Frank came to Philly 1985 and 1986 and didn't play. It was called Zappaween. He signed autographs and carried on. I said to Frank why did you remaster Sleep Dirt ? I liked it the way it was and he said because it's mine and that's the way I like it. I can go on and on. 1988 tour was wonderful but I had a feeling that I'd never see him again. So I went all 3 nights at the Tower Feb12 13 14. Then I took a bus to Allentown PA in March and finally I saw the last american Zappa show @ Long Island with Hot Tuna opening. I am so grateful to have seen these shows.Possibly the best memories I have in life.
The real essence and value of this video is at the very end. I stopped and resumed the video a few times over a couple of days. I might well have never gotten to the end; but once I did finally reach the end is where I found the real message. And now I’ve become a Patreon. (Andy might also consider Locals and/or Rumble)
As for Miles. I think "beating another human" is a criminal act. Whereas Zappa cheating on the wife is a morally deficient one. But when you let your children hear you in the next hotel room, I think that is pretty criminal. I love my dog!
To me, Zappa albums have a lot of clutter and a few gem tracks. I can't listen to his albums from beginning to end, to me this is low production value. He is a genius and experimental musician but working with good producer who could say no would help improve the overall quality of the albums. Also his guitar solos are unnecessarily long at times. Less is more in that sense. I never enjoyed Steve Vai, so those later albums with Steve Vai are useless for me. Same for Captain Beefheart and their collaborations. I can easily be put off by Zappa's vocals as well if they're prominent in the mix. I'm not a fan but never hated Zappa either. I don't like very fast players because they can't phrase a melody properly, a lot of the music is showcasing. Melody and phrasing is an art form, equal to harmony and rhythm. Many pro level post 60's musicians don't understand how to properly use dissonance and resolve it, make use of intervals, form longer phrase melodies longer than maybe a couple measures at most. They use their muscle memory and practice scales, arpeggios, licks, whatever, the mechanical things that don't matter. If you can not sing your melodies, and you are playing faster than you can sing, sorry for you, you will never be able to play anything of emotional value. When you are describing Zappa's counter stand, I'm thinking the 50's beat poets and writers, vs. the later 60's Beatnics and the popular Beatles mania. Maybe all Zappa wanted to be was the musician equivalent to a Beat novelist or poet, who knows. About the woman rights, I believe women are the only capable beings who can understand, analyze and solve their own problems, GIVEN THE CHANCE. I don't like men forming decisive opinions on woman rights, because I don't thing men are capable of understanding a woman's needs in the first place. There is the biological difference that hinders men from that. I also do think in some ways women have more rights and less abuse today but also less rights and more abuse in other ways, but I may be wrong as I am a man, so let them decide and negotiate on that. Same goes for identity politics, we are social beings and we have many identities, not just what's on our id card or what we believe is a genuine personal trait, and it is changing all the time, based on conversation. Most of the social identities are not based on facts, social sciences are not based on facts, they are based on perception. No need to heat up on these discussions like anything is absolute fact. Regarding th Israel occupation of Palestine, British colonialism started most of the problems in the middle east and the us then continues on the same track even amplifying them.
I'm neither a lover nor a hater of Frank Zappa. I've listened to some of his music and watched some concerts and some of it was interesting, but so far I haven't wanted to dive deeper. I do appreciate that some artists I like have played in his band and seem to have gained from the experience. I don't give too much credit for him pointing out hypocrisy, since it isn't all that hard to find it. And he seems like he wasn't a very good person in general, but that seems to be true of so many notable people. That kind of ambition leaves a lot of damage in its wake. But if the music speaks to you, none of that matters. Take from it what is valuable to you and leave the rest. As for the "free speech" as you mention frequently, many advocates only seem to like one kind of speech and complain when other avail themselves of it. I am an agnostic by nature, meaning that I don't feel like I completely know anything, but I have to adopt assumptions and decide what is important. The answer to abhorrent ideas isn't to say "I don't really know the answer", but to vehemently oppose those views. As a pragmatist, I know there is no perfect society or way of governance. Any pure ideology (I guess you say utopianism) is wrong by default. But even a pluralism where people are as free as possible to live as they like has to defend itself against those opposed to the concept.
Hey! Down in Joe's Garage We didn't have no dope or LSD But a coupla quarts'a beer would fix it So the intonation would not offend your ear And the same old chords Goin' over and over became a symphony We could play it again and again and again 'Cause it sounded good to me One more time! / If you hate Zappa you hate you-sself
Powerful presentation with many interesting and deep ideas. Three points that sprung to mind as I listened were: ~ I often hear a reason for censorship or "cancelling" of an artist or ideas is that these will be "triggering" to others who may have suffered under those artist or ideas. We should not tolerate such ideas because of the effect they will have on others. This is used as a justification for censorship as much as 'these ideas will inspire not-smart-people to act out'; ~ a lot of rock artists in the '60s were influenced by the Blues of the '30s, '40s and '50s. Many Blues men (mostly men) railed against women, seeing sexual conquest as a game they must win or, if denied, women as a foe they would be justified in defeating. The situation of those Blues artists was quite dire and that context provided the power behind their songs. Young artists coming to age in the '60s emulated this stance because it evoked power and sexual potency. The market place liked that (imitated or borrowed) stance and so it flourished. Unfortunately, it also permeated in the lifestyles of both artist and patron (fan) which resulted in some very despicable behaviour all around. Nowadays, many who had or who continue to act this way are getting censored, cancelled or are brought before the law; ~ should the art of an artist who is a flawed human being be censored or cancelled? Was Picasso a genius? Yes. Was he a good human being who treated his partners and children with respect? No. How are we to regard his art, in this light? The same can be said for Zappa. Should we dismiss his art because of learning about how he treated others? In the end, it's for every patron (fan) to figure out for themselves. However, one caveat is that if an artist (even a genius) is going to treat those around them badly, they risk having their art possibly tainted by the knowledge of that behaviour. Art as both a privilege and a responsibility. Thanks, Andy!
I’ve arrived at a place, having lived through the sixties, where I’m somehow ok with inconsistency and disorder. There was an ugly side of Frank Zappa which was indefensible at the same time he was making fantastic, innovative thought provoking music. The trick I suppose is to learn to appreciate his music without either accepting his ugliness or somehow feeling guilty about enjoying the genius of his music. It’s actually a very difficult place at which to arrive.
Excellent video. I am a huge Zappa fan, but have struggled at times with some of the attitudes he displays in his songs. I think you have articulated this dilemma perfectly, and I will need to go back through this video and highlight in my mind some of the salient points you have made. This is more than just an appraisal of Zappa's music, but a broader philosophical reflection on the post sixties culture and where we find ourselves. You should write a book!!
Have you ever come across the Buddhist ideas of immanence and transcendence. The Buddha strives to become enlightened in time and moves towards it step by step. Out of time he is always enlightened. It's paradoxical, which of course the universe is. (Not imminence btw). I'd say Zappa immanent, Mcglaughlin transcendent. Zappa is in the world growing a beautiful flower, Mcglaughin represents eternity. Om (the eternally enlightened Buddha) mani (the indestructible diamond) padme (the fragile lotus struggling out of the mud to produce a beautiful flower) Hung (the eternally striving Buddha).
My parents were Zappa fans and so am I. My parents also had similar convictions and contradictions to Zappa. Same age. The pornography and naked people around the house was rationalized as not being "uptight" about nudity and sexuality. It's being 'uptight" about these things that cause the problems that plague mankind. Moon Zappa and I know this narcissistic horseshit. It's not even worth arguing anymore. It's hard when you're a child and you KNOW your parents are FOS.
Honestly as someone who dealed with cornography 🌽 addiction from a young age, there’s nothing I wish more than that I had been sheltered at least a little longer. What people don’t understand is you only experience childhood once, why ruin that innocence when you’ll have the rest of your life for the other stuff? It really is pointless to let children be adults
Funny that John Etheridge is the last man standing in Soft Machine, when that band (after Daevid Allen left) was decidedly a non-guitar-player band during their most impactful pinnacle period. But of course, Bundles was a pivotal moment in music history, as was IOU.
In my opinion he was a high brow snob who liked to look down on the popular music audience, and who have liked to have been a classical composer but he lacked the training, and skill to be a classical, composer, so he made Avante -Garde rock music instead, so he could sneer at everybody else. His overall attitude as expressed in his music is a bit of a turn off for me generally. Despite his air of superiority and pretentiousness he was talented as a rock musician , he was an excellent guitarist , I put him in the top 100 players easily, he could really play his instrument. So for me his one of these artists I'm a bit ambivalent, about . I much prefer the music of Captain Beef Heart, but I don't think Captain Beef heart was anywhere as good as a rock musician as Frank Zappa was.
Don Van Vliet was a true genius. I realize that term is tossed around lightly, but no one has made an album like Lick My Decals Off Baby, and no one most likely ever will. Thank you.
@@guillaumechabason3165 I'm referring to what is also commonly called western art music, such as Bach, Mozart, Hayden, Beethoven , Brahms , Debussy, etc, there are many more I have listed some of the best and most famous. I think that is what the type of composer Frank would truly have liked to have been. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music
Well played sir! I suspect those who have dug their heels in about giving Frank the stink eye will be hard won over to the dark side of the zoot. But you have chosen a nice mode to operate in, to give them a good push into the reconsideration room. I'm reading Moon's book at the moment and that's obviously a very singular window into the Zappaverse. That and the Real Frank Zappa Book as a companion pieces, I think would twist the arm of anyone with a modicum of good will to put on the long pants and join us in that room enough for them to 'get it' if not like it. My partner sees him as a chauvinistic dinosaur who made self indulgent silly music and yet, many a time I've put FZ on and she happily bops away to it until a hint of a giveaway melodic trope or that dreaded voice breaks the spell and she insists she was having a mild seizure rather than admit to liking it. You make a good case for people like her to take him out of the misogynistic Weird Al cartoon character they've understandably mistaken him for and look at his personality more charitably and maybe, just maybe own up to their secret appreciation of the scope of the man's genius. I'm not holding my breath though 😉
John Lennon, Frank Zappa, Lou Reed, John Zorn. "and those who were seen dancing where thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" ________ Friedrich Nietzsche
Great stuff, Andy! I'd like to point out a few things: many artists from Mozart to Picasso to Serge Gainsbourg to Zappa to Prince were very heavy on the sexual side...it was almost like their creative output and their libidinal urges went hand in hand. Friends of mine didn't like Gainsbourg because he was this French 'pervert', Prince was this black 'pervert' and Zappa was the worst of them all. Certain people want their art and their artists to be full of 'decent high moral values'. Funny thing is, (especially in Belgium/Europe) most of them had no idea that their preferred so called clean cut artists were also singing about dirty stuff, it was just better disguised. "Please, please me"?(Please me, oh yeah and I'll please you.) I had lots of friends who were into Led Zep or ACDC (not that they were clean cut) and didn't have a clue what they were singing about. "Squeeze my lemon"? Well, obviously someone bought a lemon and then squeezed it. Right? We can go back to the early blues records and know that they're singing about the same stuff over and over...but where Elvis would go 'Let's play house', Zappa would just use the f-word. Don't forget that Zappa had the same aesthetic as Lenny Bruce...a dirty word does not kill you or harm you, it's just a word. About misogyny: these sixties kids were raised by parents from the fifties, forties and thirties (I was born in 68, my father was from 28!). The whole societal idea of what a woman was and what her space was in the culture was completely different. In one of Zappa's biographies it said Frank was a real Italian husband and father much likes his own father. He's the boss. The wife definitely has her place in the family but he calls the shots. It's one of the big psychoanalytical axioms that no matter what, you'll mess up your kids. Because nobody's free from their own quirks, idiosyncracies, past trauma's etc. Moon writes about it. She's found a way of dealing with the sordid things from the past. It's not because one of your parents is a genius that he can't be very dodgy in some fields. Prince apparantly was an incredible control freak when it came to his grilfriends, Lennon wasn't exactly a very loveable chap in his first marriage and so on. The free love generation was - as I think Germaine Greer put it - an outburst of predominantly male dionysian energy. You've often referred to the Nietzschian stance: "I'm here and I make my mark!" It's a big phallic statement. We should not discard that this male energy also liberated a lot of women. Up until the sixties over here in Belgium it was like living in the Victorian age. Schools still run by nuns, kids in uniform, women covering their hair on the street. For a lot of women it was a very welcome change even if it meant that men were mostly in it for pure pleasure and not responsibility (to be honest that didn't happen over here until way in the seventies when it comes to 'normal' people). These sixties kids probably had good intentions but you can't rub off your parents and grandparents mindset, customs, etc. in one generation. It's very unfortunate and sad that there's this very silly and quite immature tendency nowadays to see and judge everything from the past through a contemporary filter. In the name of sexual liberation, Serge Gainsbourg in his time did some pretty out there stuff with Jane Birkin. He was often reviled by the public but Jane said that he was quite prudish in private and a real gentle soul at heart. Zappa was known for liking female attention, just as Prince and many others. In his lyrics he wrote about stupid women just as he wrote about stupid men. He was gruesomely honest and acerbic in his humour that way. Misogyny translates as hating or vehemently disliking women. To be honest, I have never heard that in any of Zappa's songs. Jewish Princess is hilarious, but who hears any hate in there? I certainly don't. Is 'Easy Meat' hateful?..the punchline is actually "I can't get off on the Rolling Stone but the robots think it's great". (association: The Stones had a song called "Stupid Girl" in 1966.) It was Denny Walley who gave Jumbo a black eye in "Jumbo Go Away", not Zappa. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I absolutely separate the art from the person. I mean, Caravaggio was a troublemaker and probably had a mean streak...but it's so long ago that no one cares anymore...so when it's closer to home, we can be more judgemental? Doesn't work like that for me. Picasso was not a very nice person towards certain women but he was one the greatest artists of the past century, Dali is often called a clown and a fascist but he's an absolute master of painting. Zappa, for me, is the most brilliant musical mind I've ever encountered (even beyond music). That's what we will work and live with in in the future, the incredible output of these people's work, not the stories about how petty and bitchy they could be.
Enjoyed this! Just finished Moon’s book. Yes, Frank was not an ideal father or husband (who is?). He perhaps, on reflection should have avoided the whole family thing and stuck to what he excelled at. Interestingly Moon described always suspecting her Dad was a depressed individual and here l feel she gets close to the core of the issue.
ONYA Andy. Your the only one talking about this stuff on You tube at least. I love your shows. Frank was a very complex human being like the rest of us. I love his music. Today, he might be considered to be someone with Asperger's. Maybe?
Saw Frank a couple of times back in the day. The band with Flo and Eddie was a total kick. That said, while lots of talented musicians are jerks, I’ve never seen anyone who worked so hard at being objectionable as he.
I recall being in Germany visiting relatives in the early 80s and Bobby Brown was a huge hit at the time - played on TV, jukeboxes and record shops completely uncut. Blew my mind a bit.
Great title. Clear and to the point. It lets the viewer know what the video is about and kind of what to expect, even if it might be artifice. As for the video, I found it interesting and worth while and will leave it at that, or else I'll end up writing an essay instead of a comment. Cheers!
I couldn’t care less about Zappa’s character or politics. The music is what counts. Zappa’s work is fantastic, but I am a bigger fan of two of his idols-Stravinsky and Varese.
Great video, I've been going in and out of listening to Zappa since my late teens. The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing - FZ .....and I love the Ramones 1st 4 or 5 albums.
Frank Zappa gets me deep. I remember high school and early 20's listening to tons of Zappa, and then getting worn out. Then, every couple of years, an obsession. It's almost a mirror of Zappa himself.
People calling for bans or censorship always seem to be doing so on behalf of someone else- never themselves. I’m not sure the people they’re protecting have ever been identified 😀
Not intended to counter a very thoughtful video, but I just finished Moon Unit’s book, and it seems to me that Zappa’s biggest problem was not about the culture around him, but his own ego. Her view was he was was so focused on his music, and his sexual appetites, that he couldn’t really pay attention to the other people around him. So, not a great person, but still a brilliant musician.
This was a great philosophy/politics video, reminded me of your AI video. I feel like a lot of people should watch those 2 videos and really think. Cheers
Thanks, Andy, for this great video. Actually, my view of Frank Z. is quite similar, especially after I read Barry Miles. So many shocking details about his family.
![Summer Walker - Heart Of A Woman [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SFddctbZzw8/mqdefault.jpg)
Unlike most artists, appreciating Zappa requires effort. But the reward is exponential.
And you will end up spending a lot on his discography in the process.
appreciating ZAPPA requires NO effort if your heads in the right place....glad I saw him twice....81 and 88....
copy and paste a random 300 or less segment of the transcript of this video and tell ChatGpt Demo to turn it into song lyrics. That will give you ideas for songs, the program is fairly good at using rhyme and putting it into song form.
Let's try Elliott Carter Milton Babbitt and Roger Sessions
Not all of it, by a large part. Sure, some of it requires effort, but more than that, it has to be heard in the first place. And to keep saying it requires effort is going to keep some people away.
I've always felt Frank's "misogyny" was contextual. He was an equal opportunity offender. He wasn't "anti-woman", he was "anti-stupidity", and he blasted all stupidity when and wherever he saw it, regardless of gender or any other categorization. He just didn't put women on a pedestal and give them a pass because they were "fragile flowers of femininity", no more than he gave hippies, corrupt evangelicals, the entire music business, or anyone else a pass for their various flaws. The fact that he called shenanigans on women just meant it was their turn. Remember, he roasted stupid male behavior much more than he did stupid female behavior, and nobody ever called him out for misandry (I learned a new word today...), though probably only because he didn't live long enough. Does it occasionally make me uncomfortable? Sure. It's absolutely meant to, and that's what provokes critical thinking, if you have the capacity.
Thanks for provoking thoughts once again AE!
Agreed
I think you've written a very good analysis of Mr. Zappa's work.
Perfect encapsulation. This trait of his led to one of his most acclaimed public outings, when calling out the stupidity of the PMRC on national TV and before Congress.
Sure. Let's keep justifying misogyny. Frank, afterall was a gentleman and a supremely rational being. How dare anybody call out his misogyny for what it was. (Of course we also have to take into account that the cultural context of the times was somewhat more patriarchal than the one found today)
Well, see the lyrics to songs like "Fine Girl", "Easy Meat" and "Bamboozled By Love". And that's just from one album. Those songs could be very uncomfortable to listen to already in the 80s.
OK. I've been moved to comment. And I'm a W.O.M.A.N who loves prog and metal and all the rest of the stuff that some gentlemen seem to think requires an XY chromosome. Be honest, though, Zappa is a difficult artist to 'like'. Some of it is puerile, performative horseshit and some of it is genius. And there you have the Zappmeister in a nutshell. Is he taking the piss, or is he a magician that only *seems* like he's taking the piss? I'll be honest, I have to be in precisely the right state of mind to listen to Zappa these days and I'm now too old and too cranky to put up with a lot of it. Hot Rats will tide me over though, so he gets a pass for being tosser-adjacent. ***
*** Other opinions are available
Chromosomes notwithstanding, I completely agree.
I’ve been trying for decades.
As an ‘xy -er’, myself -I couldn’t agree with you more!
The worst of his Funny Stuff is painful - he spent too much of the second half of his career in a mechanical smut metal rut, seemingly writing for Beavis and Butthead before they came along. It's the other stuff that's kept me absorbed and cheered up for thirty years.
'Tosser-adjacent' is justified, and quotable. Have you got Huddersfield connections with a surname like that, by the way?
@@notreallydavid Sorry about the chromosome crack, guys but ever since Danny Baker (yes, that arbiter of good taste) announced unilaterally that "girls don't like Prog", I come out swinging! For myself, I find it perfectly possible to enjoy quite complex, difficult music without having to make an *effort*. Too many times my attempts with Zappa have been met with a big eff off from yer man. Well, OK then, mate, I have less annoying things to do.
As for my name. Not sure about Huddersfield but my husband's family are certainly from Yorkshire/Lancashire. :)
@@ruthramsden8411 This is all very good. Have a biscuit.
When I was younger I thought a lot of Zappa's later lyrics were too silly. Now I enjoy it all. I see him as the Robert Crumb of music. He's underrated as a guitar player too.
There is quite simply no other artist in rock or popular music or music in general like Frank Zappa. Love him, hate him, he was unique and I for one greatly miss him.
Love Dumb all Over.
I find Zappa's music uplifting.
If I am ever feeling sorry for myself, five minutes of Zappa will make me feel like an imbecile for doing so.
I appreciate that he was brilliant as a composer/writer, that he had a sense of humor pervading much of his work, which is somewhat rare in music, and that he was a talented guitarist. I have enjoyed bits and pieces of his work over the years. However, artists who operate so consistently in a postmodernist ironic mode may amuse me or make me think sometimes, but they rarely make me feel anything deeply, and Frank is no exception.
I understand your criticism and it's a valid one, but some of his instrumental work is very moving. Zappa was a multifaceted artist, unlike any other in popular music.
@@Darrylizer1I think a great melody or musical idea is inherently moving, whether or not the piece in question is overtly emotional. There's a lot of 'Hell, YES!' to be had in the Frank corpus.
@@notreallydavid This is true. I just listened to You Can't Do That Onstage Anymore Vol. 2 live in Helsinki while working and the entire thing is hell yes! I stopped several times just to listen. Not so great for productivity.
The moments of Frank's music that have truly moved me are all instrumental. There are some lyrics of his out there that I enjoy, but oftentimes they're in the "grin and bear it" category.
He always reminded me of a mean little kid. not the enlightened person his fanboys preach. Frank never proved me wrong.
Zappa always exposed and criticized the hypocrisy of the world. For that I admire him immensely
But he was a hypocrite himself
@@Johnnysmithy24 That usually comes with the territory.
@@Johnnysmithy24
Exactly
My favorite zappa quote: and remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.
Yeh man, no diddy
Tried and never managed to engage with Zappa.
Mates who I respect love him and look at his band members! So I cant slag him off but he just leaves me cold
I hear you!
You gotta remember before you write him off, that he went through many musical styles. Maybe you haven't heard the style of music from him that may interest you.
"Billy was a mountain,
Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder"
Genius.
You know, I understand that the music is from another time, and some of it can be a rough listen because of the lyrics. But it's not just that with Zappa. Listening to him sometimes feels like having someone in your house who thinks he's a genius and talks on and on about how everyone else around him is an idiot. It's in his lyrics, his delivery, and his tone in interviews. Then he's like, "Wanna hear some new music I made that you’ll enjoy if you have an advanced understanding of what great music really is, and where the lyrics also address some of these issues with everyone around me being idiots?" No thanks, Mr. Zappa. I'd rather hear The Little House I Used to Live In, Big Swify, or Orange County Lumber Truck. That's some really cool music.
Edit: All that said: I enjoy your channel and your takes on things (not all of them off course, but there's a nice balance). Will follow your music education series indeed!
This. Exactly this. And also, being a member of the FZ 'fan club' is more akin to a cult. His band members also seem to have Stockholme syndrome. Not me. I don't do cults.
I'm a big fan of much of Frank's music, but you're exactly right on this. Plus he had this annoying habit of boiling everyone down to "types." Everyone was a type to Frank. Not an individual. Only Frank and his pals were individuals. Also, I believe it was Simpsons creator, Matt Groenig, a HUGE Zappa fan, who said he'd experienced humor in music before, but with Frank the humor had more of a sneering quality. I'd say that's pretty accurate as well.
@@pkmcburroughs Yes! And I think Ween, another band that often gets compared to Zappa-mostly because of their humor in music and experiments in many genres-has said something similar as well. I'm not a big Ween fan, but you do feel the difference.
It seems that Zappa's actual life's project was to let everybody know that he was intelligent.
A great video!
I absorbed Zappa’s music second-hand, through my brother. He must have bought maybe 40 Zappa albums. I loved Zappa’s most sophisticated music - The Black Page and Studio Tan were favourites - but his Lenny Bruce standup persona mostly didn’t appeal to me. There was one exception: Joe’s Garage. It seemed to be a true “rock opera” in the vein of Tommy. When, on Packard Goose, the vision of Mary announces, “information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music, music is the best…” I sensed for once that Zappa was not being ironic or sarcastic, or anything other than achingly sincere.
Yes! That is Zappa at his most emotionally honest and I love it.
Thanks Andy. A gorgeous exposition that assists me in bringing Zappa back into my frames of reference.
Prog musc killed a generation of their young fans' creative outlet. Punk solved that problem and was a reaction to prog only for this reason. Prog required its musicians to have so much virtuosity that its fans were put off from creating, the only option left for fans of that music was appreciation. Punk music gave back the rights to young people to start over, do their own thing, with minimal skills, and thus create something, find their own voice, and react, rather than just appreciate and idolize. I experienced this thing myself as a young music fan and player, I also hear this from not music critics but punk, post punk, post hardcore musicians themselves. I was just listening to a recent podcast interview with Shudder to Think vocalist and he said the same thing. Being a fan of prog and fusion in my teens and twenties, I did not find the courage to write my own music until I discovered punk, post punk, post hardcore, and post rock music, I was chained until then.
"........ Punk solved that problem......" it's sarcasm, isn t it?😅😅😅😅
@@SidAlienTV Fr
@@SidAlienTV reality bites
Hearing what Moon Zappa said about her childhood puts Frank Zappa in a different light for me. Even more surprising given that she played a role in his career. But I guess we cannot assume that being a creative genius guarantees ethical character or parenting responsibilities and behavior we would expect from most people. But by definition, being unconventional in creative endeavors, it should not surprise us that such a person does not follow our conventions in other areas. Not giving Zappa a pass, but we cannot hold up the mirror of our conventions to an unconventional person and expect it will reflect the values and principles we expect from ourselves.
Zappa’s music is best listened live. Went to a Zappa Plays Zappa gig and it was insane, probably the best live music I ever saw. Hearing that complicated stuff being played and loud is different to hearing the album, makes the annoying tones listenable and less annoying, has you worshipping the musicians.
I always thought that the fact that Zappa riddled his music with silly lyrics and wackiness made the overall works even better. It’s almost as if Zappa was flexing by doing that. Like he had such confidence in the music that he knew he could drench it in wackiness and the greatness of the music would still shine through. And for me that makes it even better. There’s a great interview of George Duke speaking about this where he’s recalling the intro to Inca Roads and how it begins with this beautiful musical landscape but then Zappa "messes it up." George questioned why Zappa would mess up his music, and Zappa’s response was that "it needs to be messed up." Brilliant
"I’m from Brazil and have been following your channel for a long time. I’m amazed at how much I agree with you on almost everything. First of all, I’m a huge fan of Mahavishnu Orchestra and the master John McLaughlin, and of course, Frank Zappa. Congratulations, your channel is sensational and, humour-wise, flawless."
Amazing testimonial! Who said that?
ANND…. Nobody cares.
@@MassimoAngotzi I don't care about those who don't care, the indifferent and the dead hold the same value.
Andy, you've had many great entries but I think this was your best. I was riveted. Excellent, just excellent. Thank you.
Frank Zappa opened me to the music of Edgard Varèse and Wes Montgomery (liner notes of an album)--that is, to contemporary classical music and jazz. he visited Montreal almost every year from 67 ; I saw him every time I could afford it, and every time, his show blew my mind. I owe him a lot and I'm grateful to have seen him and the Mothers live.
Thanks for the Wes shoutout. He was my Uncle. Much obliged.....
@@mikomon309 you're welcome. he is the reason I took guitar. like him I have never used a pick.
ZAPPA Represents a cultural musical and intellectual challenge.
It's called, critical thinking.
And it's not sugar coated.
You mean like when he made those tracks with Flo and Eddie filled with nothing but stupid, inside jokes that only they thought were funny?
@@TheeRobertPhoenix uh, sure.
Do you have a point?
@@markmyra-cn7rd Yeah, I do. Why don't you use your critical thinking skills to figure it out. Here, I'll help you out. You cite his music as a cultural challenge which invokes critical thinking. I cited a period of music which I thought was self indulgent, stupid, and filled inside jokes, that were completely devoid of critical thinking culminating in the critical thinking masterpiece of "200 Motels" which was based on secret recordings by Mark Volman of various band members.
@@TheeRobertPhoenix well now,
I think, you have mistaken me for someone
Who cares.
It seems that your point is.
You like patting yourself on the back for being such an expert.
Do you think this is a competition?
I do not. But a mirror, might be a good opponent,,for you. Maybe some
great thoughts will sqeek out, that all of humanity will be forever grateful.
I used to think Zappa was pretentious crap…. Once I listened to him, and a nice joint… it hit me! Zappa is not pretentious crap… I’M THE PRETENTIOUS ONE! FULL OF CRAP, I AM!
Anyways, I repented and now I am off to listen to Roxy by Proxy recommended to me by one Andy Edwards! Right on, eh!
Yes, and stepping in cow shit in a field is funny if you've gotten high. Dope can help just about anything.
You were right the first time.
Andy, I love this episode! As a music fan, whose lack of knowledge on Zappa could fill the Encyclopaedia Britannica, I do love peaches in regalia, gorgeous piece of music. I believe as an American born in 1955 that my baby boomer generation was probably the most spoiled and coddled of all people, the factors for that were the incredible financial success of the USA after World War II and the G.I. Bill, which allowed people like my father a poor working class Italian kid who served at the end of World War II to truly have a middle-class life in the American dream . What sued was that? We grew up with a certain amount of affluence that no lower class kids before us could imagine. But we were helped and not solely guilty of what happened to us. Starting with television, and the four mention affluence in the states as well as Madison Avenue , not only selling to our parents, but also to us as toddlers and children and teenagers every possible consumable good that we could imagine it definitely in my opinion to delirious effects later in our lives! I believe many of the baby boom, was spoiled and felt entitled to so much And to have their gratifications met and that might’ve led to the age of Aquarius hippie dumb drugs, rampant sex, and all the other excesses that came with the rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle of the late 60s and 70s bracket {I was not immune from some of these excesses], and who’s to say if it was for good or for ill??? I believe Zappa really express those excesses whether he was goofing on it or truly just a part of it I don’t know? Anyway a great show and maybe if humanity survives these days future historians will ridicule what happened in the middle to late part of humans 20th century!?!?? Thanks brother you give us a lot of food for thought that we’re not gonna get from Rick Beato not saying I don’t like him. I’m just saying we’re not gonna get that from Beato , another pompous message from your little friend Jerry Potente 872L O L
I meant about 4 or 5 lines down what ensued from that was the richest period in United States history that had a profound effect on the middle class, upwardly, striving families, and their children.
There have been a couple of vault releases lately of the band with Ruth Underwood. On one, during the introduction of the band, he introduces Ruth as “the one in the back with the big t*ts…”. In another it’s “and in the back smelling good between the legs…”. Look, I know it was the 70s (I was actually alive and buying FZ records). Regardless, these were still ass-holic ways to introduce a great musician (I don’t recall any other member of the band getting that sort of introduction).
every band members was mocked while being introduced (often not always obviously, like ruth wasn't always introduced that way)
ray white on fake guitar for example
@@pippaccio79 Or 'Tiny Ted Bozzio and his little 'pickle''
Yeah, that's just a matter of not hearing enough of Zappa's live performances. He gave every member of his bands a ton of crap and I think it's safe to assume that it was well within context of their professional and personal relationships. We're on the outside tryna look in.
Quite brilliant, you have totally reinvigorated my interest in music. I have albums by the four artists mentioned and have now dug them up from my collection to listen again.
I would image that people who are as driven towards a vision artistically as frank was, are quite narcissistic in behavior and nature. I think it comes with the territory and explains the disregard for the feelings of others.
His music is provoking, complex, and very intriguing. His attempts at humour and social commentary are often not funny enough and/or heavy-handed and obnoxious. I feel Frank often fails as a comedian but never as a musician/composer (whereas I find you, Mr. Edwards, to be a very funny bloke). I pick and choose with Zappa’s catalogue but there is a lot of great stuff to be sure.
Thank you, Andy. Incredibly insightful. Political philosopher Vlad Vexler has expressed similar themes about hyper identity politics and Western de-politicization. It is amazing that you can arrive at similar conclusions from your musical background. Please consider this a compliment, as for me, Vlad Vexler is an incredibly intelligent political philosopher. I also appreciate your comments in other videos about English aesthetics. For context, I am a 67 year old American, Canadian dual citizen.
The Ramones DO have great energy. Their simplicity is almost a beauty.
His music doesn't take me anywhere I want to go.
You have to slip a little as you go.
Or, the minute it starts to, he turns 180 degrees and you're off somewhere else. Never got it.
Man, you are a wealth of legitimate cultural and technical insights about music, I learn so much from your videos, thank you Sir.
I think it was during Frank's appearance on the the King Biscuit Flower Hour, he described his music as a blend of Vaudeville and investigative journalism.
My friend came up with a nice description of Zappa`s music. He said "If there was an inderdimensional music festival with artists from different galaxies and realities - Frank Zappa would still be among the headliners"
He’s a great musician/composer/arranger.. Call me uptight, but I can never have my kids be nannied by groupie chick/s hanging out in my house like he did..
Lol very true
Zappa is a misanthrope and in that regard, he's an equal opportunity misanthrope. I'm not a fan of his singing if you can call it that. I think his doo wop love affair with Flo and Eddie and their stupid jokes was incredibly self indulgent. When he steps into the fusion stuff without the singing and his love affair with atonality, my ears open. But my main complaint of Frank Zappa is his absolute contempt for writing conventional songs or songs that have more or less a conventional structure. He's too good for it--but when he does, on a track like "Dirty Love" he's actually way more than just competent, but of course it's a more conventional song that's not just about sex, but low down, dirty sex. So Zappa does a Zappa thing and he gives us a more conventional tune, he's going to make sure it won't get any airplay.
My final take on Zappa; He's the Mussolini of Rock. A soft fascist tyrant in his own family where the meals ran on time.
Thank you Andy, very thoughtful speech. I agree with most of what you say. About the music side of things, Zappa has been one of my favorite musicians (with Shostakovich and Led Zeppelin among others) and music has always been very important in my life (as a listener), hence Zappa’s music has been that too and always is after 50 years of listening to it. On the “philosophical” side of things, I agree with you about how utopian and righteous politics is leading us towards disaster. I am a leftist but 1 lesson history teaches us, I think is that every time someone talked about the need to create a “new man” to create a “perfect society”, it’s time to run and run fast.
100%
I disagree with Zappa doing that around his kids! Clearly for that he was not totally morally intact; however, I would like to see further proof that he actually hates woman before I would call him misogynistic. As for the antisemitism. They say, 'you can call it antisemitic, but is it a lie?'. Everyone has their flaws, but Zappa clearly understood a great deal about the nature of woman, powerful lobbies within the USA and western nations governments and the social conditioning of 1960s. For this and his prolific contribution to music, I respect him!
In my younger days, i was a complete FZ fanatic. These days, I barely listen to him and if i do, its an instrumental or mostly instrumental album.
Me too.
Dick jokes and baby octopuses...sorry Frank.
Listened to Sleep Dirt the other day and it was excellent.
@@rustybeltway2373 yeah I can't listen to any of the Flo and Eddie era. Roy Estrada is a convicted pedophile/rapist, so anything that prominently features him I can't take for too long. Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo, that stuff gets the most spins at my place.
Yep, Waka Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo live on with me, and Uncle Meat.
@@goatuscrow4135 High regard for Uncle Meat. The overall sound, the tunes, the horn parts, beautiful Ray Anthony...
Meat, Weasels, Burt Weenie...they hang together in my mind.
But Meat is special.
The lethargic drum beat on Son of Mr Green Genes...solid Dog Breath...the repeating horn motifs....Doo woo....Frank lead guitar....it's all here. Plus King Kong!!!!!!!
@@rustybeltway2373 Have you checked out “Meat Light”?
It is, I think, a must have re- issue.
And the album that is its companion piece for me is “Trout Mask Replica”, both released around the same time.
I went through a heavy Mr Bungle (and Zorn / Naked City) phase in the early - mid 90s before I ever heard a note of Zappa. By the time I did hear Zappa music, I already could access and appreciate less silly recordings of my favorite musicians that were in Zappa's lineups. And I had already burned out on that non-pretentious avant garde-esque ethos of excelling in musical performance in complete service to absurdist / taboo themes. I know that went backwards in musical lineage, but in my case Zappa just never had anything to pique my interest whatsoever.
I think Frank had the same filter as most of us, but his was turned off. He just told it as he saw it and you could take it or leave it. The only way I got people to understand Frank who didn't but should have, was take them to a show. 100% conversion rate 🙂
I'm also a little suspicious that some tracks he put on to upset the people who would like the rest of the album, sometimes more than one. Very few of his albums hold a constant pattern as most of the songs were recorded over a period of time with different musicians. One Size Fits All is to me the one that lives closest to title, but I have them all and love them all for the same reason. Last true genius composer in rock music [if you have to label it].
I think I'm with Frank. I don't really care what genre it is as long as it's worth listening to and, in the vast majority of Frank's work, it is. I can also 100% guarantee you won't like it all, but it will open your ears to many forms of music and composition that if you stick in a musical rut, you'll probably never get round to hearing.
Frank is, without doubt, the WORST artist when someone asks you which album to listen to first !
I have to go with tour bands as they make more sense than the chronology of the recordings.
Frank & Miles, can't fault your choice there although the other two are probably a bit subjective 😊
I'm surprised that you didn't mention that John McLaughlin was with Miles too. Both Frank & Miles seemed to have a knack of finding great players, then getting them to go one step beyond their comfort zone to produce something really special. Both bands were melting pots for great musicians.
I can't think of any other two composers who have sent me in as many musical directions as Miles & Frank, but at least with Miles you can probably pick an album to play to someone who hasn't heard him based on what the new listener likes. Frank ? No chance. With Frank it was always time for the 'Mix Tape' rather than any one album [or I'd lend them Weasels]. The oceans of harmony on 'Peaches' ? Beautiful. And that's just ONE track. Frank rewards patient listeners who can see beyond the spoilers to the golden notes underneath. He did enough instrumentals to get by on if you really can't handle the 'social commentary'. Flo & Eddie period is least favourite. 73/75 bands probably my favourite. Couldn't live without any of them.
From the Venus De Milo (Alexandros) to the Rokeby Venus (Velazquez, which has been attacked by Suffragettes to Feminists to Climate Activists) to drawings of Women Masturbating (by Klimt & Schiele) to 'Bad Boy' and other works (by Eric Fischl) to 'The 9 Prettiest Bottoms in The National Gallery' (paintings by Peter Blake, made during a residency at The National Gallery, London, 1994-96) to nude paintings by Lucian Freud etc . . .
Should we destroy all those old (and more modern & contemporary) paintings and sculptures of female nudes (and male nudes) in the national and international museums and galleries, because our 21st century morals and aesthetics say it is wrong or immoral and/or misogynistic to look at these works? (let alone confess to liking them!)
Discuss:
It was ITV who made the drama about Horizon and it was the Post office not Royal Mail who prosecuted the sub-post masters.
Andy, what you said Made me think of How the Panos Cosmatos film Mandy, reflects the evolution of the counter culture values at it's worst. And i'd even argue that they aré not even being twisted at all but instead; It just just a natural extensión of them.
Anyway, as for the second part. I am just reminded of a certainty phrase: Every villain Is the hero of their own story. I think that in the moment that you aré setting yourself of a certainty group into a path of so called righteousness you aré setting up yourself to fail, because when you adopt that label, from your point of View you aré no longer capable of doing wrong. I find that idea fascinating because It dictates some of the Most horrific and world shattering acts in history.
Great comment and sadly very true
"Context", something we seem to forget these days. Very easy to acknowledge your heroes are deeply flawed. It makes them more interesting anyway.
I love everything up to the “Flo & Eddie” era which hasn’t aged well at all. Humour that was close to the bone in the 1970s just seems pointlessly puerile today and gets in the way of the music. There are flashes of great quality (“Apostrophe”, “Zoot Allures”) but it’s a bit hit and miss for me after that. Give me “In it for the Money”, “Weasels”, “Absolutely Free” and “Uncle Meat” and I’m a happy chappie 😎
'Art is the organisation of sensuous impressions into pleasing formal relations which express the sensibilty of the artist and convey to their audience a sense of values which can transform their lives.' Sangharakshita
I read Moon Unit Zappa's book. After that I still like the music and many of the quotes, but feel sorry for the dysfunctional private/family life of FZ. 👍🎶🖖
Giving a kid a name like "Moon Unit" seems neither loving nor understanding to me.
You've certainly bitten off a hefty wedge of pop morality with this one Andy and kudos for that. Zappa, like all humans, was imperfect. Many of his earlier compositions I think were brilliant. The 70s introduced a more sleazy element into his work which I didn't find as funny or smart as Zappa obviously did. I saw Zappa and his new band live at the Collosium in London in 1970. As an impressionable 17 year old at the time I was impressed but still preferred the original Mothers of Invention.
Great video Andy. Love the analysis of everything here. Nice to hear
At least Miles can rationalize his behavior due to his addiction...a sad excuse But Zappa committed his debauchery seemingly clear headed. I guess we have to start listening to sinless musicians like...Oh wait. There aren't any.
Seems to be a trend that artists are always some of the most flawed people(guess that’s why the art is good) and yet we idolize them like superheroes
I agree. I envy stable people.
Wonderful video Andy !
Congratulations on your 40K !
My stepdad used to play Zappa when I was a kid and it repulsed me, everything about it, the music, the grotesque covers, the perverse vibe, how he looks. I'd sometimes have to leave the house. This strong dislike, almost a fear, lasted my whole life, so I felt I had to listen to him now to get over this irrational aversion. I listened to Hot Rats and Freak Out! and got over it. There's talent and creativity, for sure, but I still can't enjoy it. My point is keep it away from children, it's deeply disturbing to an 8 year old mind, lol
I admire him, and think him a genius, without having put in the work to actually enjoy his work.
You can play Hot Rats or any instrumental work to children perfectly fine. It might make them appreciate good music at its finest. No need to show them weird lyrical stuff tho lol
I'm so happy about your examination of zappas' actual words instead of music .That's what truly sets him apart from other artists. A bit of a modern profit , Whose words pop up in my mind very often. Especially these days.
I'm willing to bet he would have some interesting things to say about our time , and I'm willing to bet they would be surprising.
I purchased Them or US the day it came out. It was the first digital record I ever bought. I took the train to New York from Philly to See both nights of Does Humor belong in music. I had an idea of what the album was going to be like. After its release I saw him do 2 shows in one night at the Tower Theater in Upper Darby PA. I started to listen to him in 1976 when I was ten. I also bought a used copy of Hot Rats when I was 11. Frank came to Philly 1985 and 1986 and didn't play. It was called Zappaween. He signed autographs and carried on. I said to Frank why did you remaster Sleep Dirt ? I liked it the way it was and he said because it's mine and that's the way I like it. I can go on and on. 1988 tour was wonderful but I had a feeling that I'd never see him again. So I went all 3 nights at the Tower Feb12 13 14. Then I took a bus to Allentown PA in March and finally I saw the last american Zappa show @ Long Island with Hot Tuna opening. I am so grateful to have seen these shows.Possibly the best memories I have in life.
I appreciate your symbolic cymbals. Heavy. Three of them.
Look up his father.
FZ came outta Laurel Canyon.
He didn’t predict the future. He relayed what his father had developed and overheard at work.
The real essence and value of this video is at the very end.
I stopped and resumed the video a few times over a couple of days.
I might well have never gotten to the end; but once I did finally reach the end is where I found the real message.
And now I’ve become a Patreon.
(Andy might also consider Locals and/or Rumble)
As for Miles. I think "beating another human" is a criminal act. Whereas Zappa cheating on the wife is a morally deficient one. But when you let your children hear you in the next hotel room, I think that is pretty criminal. I love my dog!
I think keeping some woman you're screwing in the basement of the family's house with your wife and children upstairs is a pretty crappy thing to do.
To me, Zappa albums have a lot of clutter and a few gem tracks. I can't listen to his albums from beginning to end, to me this is low production value. He is a genius and experimental musician but working with good producer who could say no would help improve the overall quality of the albums. Also his guitar solos are unnecessarily long at times. Less is more in that sense. I never enjoyed Steve Vai, so those later albums with Steve Vai are useless for me. Same for Captain Beefheart and their collaborations. I can easily be put off by Zappa's vocals as well if they're prominent in the mix. I'm not a fan but never hated Zappa either. I don't like very fast players because they can't phrase a melody properly, a lot of the music is showcasing. Melody and phrasing is an art form, equal to harmony and rhythm. Many pro level post 60's musicians don't understand how to properly use dissonance and resolve it, make use of intervals, form longer phrase melodies longer than maybe a couple measures at most. They use their muscle memory and practice scales, arpeggios, licks, whatever, the mechanical things that don't matter. If you can not sing your melodies, and you are playing faster than you can sing, sorry for you, you will never be able to play anything of emotional value. When you are describing Zappa's counter stand, I'm thinking the 50's beat poets and writers, vs. the later 60's Beatnics and the popular Beatles mania. Maybe all Zappa wanted to be was the musician equivalent to a Beat novelist or poet, who knows. About the woman rights, I believe women are the only capable beings who can understand, analyze and solve their own problems, GIVEN THE CHANCE. I don't like men forming decisive opinions on woman rights, because I don't thing men are capable of understanding a woman's needs in the first place. There is the biological difference that hinders men from that. I also do think in some ways women have more rights and less abuse today but also less rights and more abuse in other ways, but I may be wrong as I am a man, so let them decide and negotiate on that. Same goes for identity politics, we are social beings and we have many identities, not just what's on our id card or what we believe is a genuine personal trait, and it is changing all the time, based on conversation. Most of the social identities are not based on facts, social sciences are not based on facts, they are based on perception. No need to heat up on these discussions like anything is absolute fact. Regarding th Israel occupation of Palestine, British colonialism started most of the problems in the middle east and the us then continues on the same track even amplifying them.
I'm neither a lover nor a hater of Frank Zappa. I've listened to some of his music and watched some concerts and some of it was interesting, but so far I haven't wanted to dive deeper. I do appreciate that some artists I like have played in his band and seem to have gained from the experience. I don't give too much credit for him pointing out hypocrisy, since it isn't all that hard to find it. And he seems like he wasn't a very good person in general, but that seems to be true of so many notable people. That kind of ambition leaves a lot of damage in its wake. But if the music speaks to you, none of that matters. Take from it what is valuable to you and leave the rest.
As for the "free speech" as you mention frequently, many advocates only seem to like one kind of speech and complain when other avail themselves of it. I am an agnostic by nature, meaning that I don't feel like I completely know anything, but I have to adopt assumptions and decide what is important. The answer to abhorrent ideas isn't to say "I don't really know the answer", but to vehemently oppose those views. As a pragmatist, I know there is no perfect society or way of governance. Any pure ideology (I guess you say utopianism) is wrong by default. But even a pluralism where people are as free as possible to live as they like has to defend itself against those opposed to the concept.
You need to write a philosophy book, some great and relative moments here. Came for Zappa left with a new perspective on society.
4:76 I’m slightly surprised Alan Holdsworth is not among them.
Valley Girl was literally the track that got me into Zappa.
Hey! Down in Joe's Garage
We didn't have no dope or LSD
But a coupla quarts'a beer would fix it
So the intonation would not offend your ear
And the same old chords
Goin' over and over became a symphony
We could play it again and again and again
'Cause it sounded good to me
One more time! / If you hate Zappa you hate you-sself
Powerful presentation with many interesting and deep ideas. Three points that sprung to mind as I listened were:
~ I often hear a reason for censorship or "cancelling" of an artist or ideas is that these will be "triggering" to others who may have suffered under those artist or ideas. We should not tolerate such ideas because of the effect they will have on others. This is used as a justification for censorship as much as 'these ideas will inspire not-smart-people to act out';
~ a lot of rock artists in the '60s were influenced by the Blues of the '30s, '40s and '50s. Many Blues men (mostly men) railed against women, seeing sexual conquest as a game they must win or, if denied, women as a foe they would be justified in defeating. The situation of those Blues artists was quite dire and that context provided the power behind their songs. Young artists coming to age in the '60s emulated this stance because it evoked power and sexual potency. The market place liked that (imitated or borrowed) stance and so it flourished. Unfortunately, it also permeated in the lifestyles of both artist and patron (fan) which resulted in some very despicable behaviour all around. Nowadays, many who had or who continue to act this way are getting censored, cancelled or are brought before the law;
~ should the art of an artist who is a flawed human being be censored or cancelled? Was Picasso a genius? Yes. Was he a good human being who treated his partners and children with respect? No. How are we to regard his art, in this light? The same can be said for Zappa. Should we dismiss his art because of learning about how he treated others? In the end, it's for every patron (fan) to figure out for themselves. However, one caveat is that if an artist (even a genius) is going to treat those around them badly, they risk having their art possibly tainted by the knowledge of that behaviour. Art as both a privilege and a responsibility.
Thanks, Andy!
I’ve arrived at a place, having lived through the sixties, where I’m somehow ok with inconsistency and disorder. There was an ugly side of Frank Zappa which was indefensible at the same time he was making fantastic, innovative thought provoking music. The trick I suppose is to learn to appreciate his music without either accepting his ugliness or somehow feeling guilty about enjoying the genius of his music. It’s actually a very difficult place at which to arrive.
Excellent video. I am a huge Zappa fan, but have struggled at times with some of the attitudes he displays in his songs. I think you have articulated this dilemma perfectly, and I will need to go back through this video and highlight in my mind some of the salient points you have made. This is more than just an appraisal of Zappa's music, but a broader philosophical reflection on the post sixties culture and where we find ourselves. You should write a book!!
My touchstone artists are very similar to yours Andy with one exception: John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Frank Zappa and Jimi Hendrix. So one different.
Have you ever come across the Buddhist ideas of immanence and transcendence. The Buddha strives to become enlightened in time and moves towards it step by step. Out of time he is always enlightened. It's paradoxical, which of course the universe is. (Not imminence btw). I'd say Zappa immanent, Mcglaughlin transcendent. Zappa is in the world growing a beautiful flower, Mcglaughin represents eternity. Om (the eternally enlightened Buddha) mani (the indestructible diamond) padme (the fragile lotus struggling out of the mud to produce a beautiful flower) Hung (the eternally striving Buddha).
Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not Wisdom
Wisdom is not Truth
Truth is not Beauty
Beauty is not Love
Love is not Music
MUSIC IS THE BEST
My parents were Zappa fans and so am I. My parents also had similar convictions and contradictions to Zappa. Same age. The pornography and naked people around the house was rationalized as not being "uptight" about nudity and sexuality. It's being 'uptight" about these things that cause the problems that plague mankind. Moon Zappa and I know this narcissistic horseshit. It's not even worth arguing anymore. It's hard when you're a child and you KNOW your parents are FOS.
Honestly as someone who dealed with cornography 🌽 addiction from a young age, there’s nothing I wish more than that I had been sheltered at least a little longer. What people don’t understand is you only experience childhood once, why ruin that innocence when you’ll have the rest of your life for the other stuff?
It really is pointless to let children be adults
Funny that John Etheridge is the last man standing in Soft Machine, when that band (after Daevid Allen left) was decidedly a non-guitar-player band during their most impactful pinnacle period.
But of course, Bundles was a pivotal moment in music history, as was IOU.
In my opinion he was a high brow snob who liked to look down on the popular music audience, and who have liked to have been a classical composer but he lacked the training, and skill to be a classical, composer, so he made Avante -Garde rock music instead, so he could sneer at everybody else. His overall attitude as expressed in his music is a bit of a turn off for me generally.
Despite his air of superiority and pretentiousness he was talented as a rock musician , he was an excellent guitarist , I put him in the top 100 players easily, he could really play his instrument. So for me his one of these artists I'm a bit ambivalent, about . I much prefer the music of Captain Beef Heart, but I don't think Captain Beef heart was anywhere as good as a rock musician as Frank Zappa was.
Don Van Vliet was a true genius. I realize that term is tossed around lightly, but no one has made an album like Lick My Decals Off Baby, and no one most likely ever will. Thank you.
Captain and Tennille were no Captain Beefheart... allegedly.
Not a serious classical composer ?
What does this mean ?
Some examples ?
@@guillaumechabason3165 I'm referring to what is also commonly called western art music, such as Bach, Mozart, Hayden, Beethoven , Brahms , Debussy, etc, there are many more I have listed some of the best and most famous. I think that is what the type of composer Frank would truly have liked to have been. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music
@@sjbang5764 That's a great album. Great lyrics, he a great sense of humor.
Well played sir! I suspect those who have dug their heels in about giving Frank the stink eye will be hard won over to the dark side of the zoot. But you have chosen a nice mode to operate in, to give them a good push into the reconsideration room. I'm reading Moon's book at the moment and that's obviously a very singular window into the Zappaverse. That and the Real Frank Zappa Book as a companion pieces, I think would twist the arm of anyone with a modicum of good will to put on the long pants and join us in that room enough for them to 'get it' if not like it. My partner sees him as a chauvinistic dinosaur who made self indulgent silly music and yet, many a time I've put FZ on and she happily bops away to it until a hint of a giveaway melodic trope or that dreaded voice breaks the spell and she insists she was having a mild seizure rather than admit to liking it. You make a good case for people like her to take him out of the misogynistic Weird Al cartoon character they've understandably mistaken him for and look at his personality more charitably and maybe, just maybe own up to their secret appreciation of the scope of the man's genius. I'm not holding my breath though 😉
Outstanding coherent presentation, great job Mr. Edwards.
John Lennon, Frank Zappa, Lou Reed, John Zorn.
"and those who were seen dancing where thought to be insane
by those who could not hear the music"
________ Friedrich Nietzsche
Great stuff, Andy! I'd like to point out a few things: many artists from Mozart to Picasso to Serge Gainsbourg to Zappa to Prince were very heavy on the sexual side...it was almost like their creative output and their libidinal urges went hand in hand. Friends of mine didn't like Gainsbourg because he was this French 'pervert', Prince was this black 'pervert' and Zappa was the worst of them all. Certain people want their art and their artists to be full of 'decent high moral values'. Funny thing is, (especially in Belgium/Europe) most of them had no idea that their preferred so called clean cut artists were also singing about dirty stuff, it was just better disguised. "Please, please me"?(Please me, oh yeah and I'll please you.) I had lots of friends who were into Led Zep or ACDC (not that they were clean cut) and didn't have a clue what they were singing about. "Squeeze my lemon"? Well, obviously someone bought a lemon and then squeezed it. Right? We can go back to the early blues records and know that they're singing about the same stuff over and over...but where Elvis would go 'Let's play house', Zappa would just use the f-word. Don't forget that Zappa had the same aesthetic as Lenny Bruce...a dirty word does not kill you or harm you, it's just a word. About misogyny: these sixties kids were raised by parents from the fifties, forties and thirties (I was born in 68, my father was from 28!). The whole societal idea of what a woman was and what her space was in the culture was completely different. In one of Zappa's biographies it said Frank was a real Italian husband and father much likes his own father. He's the boss. The wife definitely has her place in the family but he calls the shots. It's one of the big psychoanalytical axioms that no matter what, you'll mess up your kids. Because nobody's free from their own quirks, idiosyncracies, past trauma's etc. Moon writes about it. She's found a way of dealing with the sordid things from the past. It's not because one of your parents is a genius that he can't be very dodgy in some fields. Prince apparantly was an incredible control freak when it came to his grilfriends, Lennon wasn't exactly a very loveable chap in his first marriage and so on. The free love generation was - as I think Germaine Greer put it - an outburst of predominantly male dionysian energy. You've often referred to the Nietzschian stance: "I'm here and I make my mark!" It's a big phallic statement. We should not discard that this male energy also liberated a lot of women. Up until the sixties over here in Belgium it was like living in the Victorian age. Schools still run by nuns, kids in uniform, women covering their hair on the street. For a lot of women it was a very welcome change even if it meant that men were mostly in it for pure pleasure and not responsibility (to be honest that didn't happen over here until way in the seventies when it comes to 'normal' people). These sixties kids probably had good intentions but you can't rub off your parents and grandparents mindset, customs, etc. in one generation. It's very unfortunate and sad that there's this very silly and quite immature tendency nowadays to see and judge everything from the past through a contemporary filter. In the name of sexual liberation, Serge Gainsbourg in his time did some pretty out there stuff with Jane Birkin. He was often reviled by the public but Jane said that he was quite prudish in private and a real gentle soul at heart. Zappa was known for liking female attention, just as Prince and many others. In his lyrics he wrote about stupid women just as he wrote about stupid men. He was gruesomely honest and acerbic in his humour that way. Misogyny translates as hating or vehemently disliking women. To be honest, I have never heard that in any of Zappa's songs. Jewish Princess is hilarious, but who hears any hate in there? I certainly don't. Is 'Easy Meat' hateful?..the punchline is actually "I can't get off on the Rolling Stone but the robots think it's great". (association: The Stones had a song called "Stupid Girl" in 1966.) It was Denny Walley who gave Jumbo a black eye in "Jumbo Go Away", not Zappa. I could go on, but I think you get the point. I absolutely separate the art from the person. I mean, Caravaggio was a troublemaker and probably had a mean streak...but it's so long ago that no one cares anymore...so when it's closer to home, we can be more judgemental? Doesn't work like that for me. Picasso was not a very nice person towards certain women but he was one the greatest artists of the past century, Dali is often called a clown and a fascist but he's an absolute master of painting. Zappa, for me, is the most brilliant musical mind I've ever encountered (even beyond music). That's what we will work and live with in in the future, the incredible output of these people's work, not the stories about how petty and bitchy they could be.
This I liked very much! I'm a Zappa fan and find your view here interesting; like the philosophy and toss and turn.
Enjoyed this! Just finished Moon’s book. Yes, Frank was not an ideal father or husband (who is?). He perhaps, on reflection should have avoided the whole family thing and stuck to what he excelled at. Interestingly Moon described always suspecting her Dad was a depressed individual and here l feel she gets close to the core of the issue.
So great to see serious commentary on this subject even if it is 30 years late. Glad now I still have held on to my 3000 hours of FZ bootleg tape.
ONYA Andy. Your the only one talking about this stuff on You tube at least. I love your shows. Frank was a very complex human being like the rest of us. I love his music. Today, he might be considered to be someone with Asperger's. Maybe?
I Listened to Freak out! Earlier. Loved it
Freak Out! is one of my all time faves by The Mothers of Invention/Zappa.
First one I listened to, and the best.
Fantastic video, really appreciate your insights!
Saw Frank a couple of times back in the day. The band with Flo and Eddie was a total kick. That said, while lots of talented musicians are jerks, I’ve never seen anyone who worked so hard at being objectionable as he.
I recall being in Germany visiting relatives in the early 80s and Bobby Brown was a huge hit at the time - played on TV, jukeboxes and record shops completely uncut. Blew my mind a bit.
Great title. Clear and to the point. It lets the viewer know what the video is about and kind of what to expect, even if it might be artifice.
As for the video, I found it interesting and worth while and will leave it at that, or else I'll end up writing an essay instead of a comment.
Cheers!
I couldn’t care less about Zappa’s character or politics. The music is what counts. Zappa’s work is fantastic, but I am a bigger fan of two of his idols-Stravinsky and Varese.
Just for fun… I couldn’t care less about Trump’s character or politics. I support him because he’s so darn effective at……😂😂😂
Great video, I've been going in and out of listening to Zappa since my late teens. The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing - FZ .....and I love the Ramones 1st 4 or 5 albums.
Frank Zappa gets me deep. I remember high school and early 20's listening to tons of Zappa, and then getting worn out. Then, every couple of years, an obsession. It's almost a mirror of Zappa himself.
Superb video, Andy.
Very interesting. The speech If I Were The Devil came to mind. From the 60's. I don't remember who it was, but quite prophetic it was.
Great discussion. You are much above Rick Beato, be sure.
People calling for bans or censorship always seem to be doing so on behalf of someone else- never themselves. I’m not sure the people they’re protecting have ever been identified 😀
Harold MacMillan, you've never had it so good.
Not intended to counter a very thoughtful video, but I just finished Moon Unit’s book, and it seems to me that Zappa’s biggest problem was not about the culture around him, but his own ego. Her view was he was was so focused on his music, and his sexual appetites, that he couldn’t really pay attention to the other people around him. So, not a great person, but still a brilliant musician.
This was a great philosophy/politics video, reminded me of your AI video. I feel like a lot of people should watch those 2 videos and really think. Cheers
It was the Post Office, not Royal Mail. It was ITV that made the TV series about it.
Thanks, Andy, for this great video. Actually, my view of Frank Z. is quite similar, especially after I read Barry Miles. So many shocking details about his family.
The first thing I do when I arrive at my favorite fireside resort chalet in Aspen, CO, is put on Zappa's SheikYerbouti. Don't judge me.
No judging here 🕺🏻