I was just thinking about doing this very same thing in FL Studio. Its a shame that many plug ins and VSTi's need so much for resources to sound best 👌. Glad to see someone is just as much a mad man in the lab! Lol
I've known about this process for quite some time, but no one's broken it down as simply (or in a way I can fully understand) as you have. Many thanks and kudos to you, sir!
This is such an amazing video! One suggestion I would make is to use the Microsoft Remote Desktop client instead of TightVNC. It has a client for Mac and it is much more fluid to use.
Hello there, I use to be a keyswitch freak when it comes to placing orchestral tracks into DAW. After watching your video, I changed my template into articulation per track algorithm. Template received a vast number of tracks of course, (go multitimbral and you'll have 256*16 tracks in logic, VEPRO doesn't seem to have a problem either) but my creativity is boosted. In keyswitch, my articulations were somewhat restrained or jailed. I had to look at slave computer to remember what articluation was available.. This new experience was like a jailbreak for my template. It takes some hours to build but it is definitely a whole new experience in creativity. Thanks for this. Typing track names is a nightmare though :)
Right. It does take a long time. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind having a keyswitch-based template, except that I hate hunting-and-pecking for articulations. Other sequencers have better support for that (e.g. Cubase's Expression Maps). Hopefully that's something that'll come to DP in the future.
This video is an excellent tutorial for composing big cinematic music. Maybe it looks like overkill, but you gonna need it more and more. I used to work like this, but now I changed to a simple, mobile, low-cost and blank template. Because I don't do big orchestra anymore.
Thanks for your time David! I am always maxing out my Macbook as I need all colours available at once. Been looking at AudioGridder and others but Vienna seems to be the "working" choice.
Thanks David You are an excellent educator and your videos throughout the years have provided me much needed clear-cut tutorials as I too am a Mac guy use DP in my composing. Your videos are always very thought out, intuitive, and of course educations. I appreciate you sharing your set up in this video as well.
Thank you for this!!! As soon as I get my next album budget this will be the very first thing I'm investing in! Been curious how to get a set up going like this for a while now because I HATE having to free up resources by printing things to audio and not having my instruments ready at a moments notice, totally fucks with the creative flow of things and ideas! Where are you based out of if you don't mind me asking?
A cheaper alternative for people who can't afford machines like that (but can use their spare computer, like I did) is NetVST, which does essentially the same thing, and it's free... the downside with NetVST is that one has to re-setup everything once the machine reboots (I did't find any option to use command line switches or plugin load automation for NetVST). However, in both instances it has the advantage that you coud use Kontakt or other plugins on systems for which they are not available, say Linux. This way you could use Kontakt in your Linux DAW
Awesome video, very very informative. I really like that you take your time to share your experience and knowledge - this is just great. My next setup will 'only' be a single computer with 64gb ram, 4 Core 7700k CPU (propably still better than 8 Core Ryzen 7), M.2 SSD 1TB, low latency motherboard and a consumer sound card i guess. I'll try to make some money out of that by composing some orchestral game music for companies and if i succeed I will upgrade to your slave computer setup to handle a realistic Vienna Symphonic Library :) See you in 2 years....hopefully! :D
Wonderful post! Sounds like a great game plan! That system should work great. I would probably put a decent sound card on it -- not a consumer level one -- but you can find simple pro level interfaces under $400 I think.
This is sooo cool! These days I am more into looking at my gear and watching videos about studio equipment and pcs, than actually making music. 😂😂 I'm such a tech guy. My name is David too
David, first of all, thanks for your professional videos. I am a big sceptic regarding multi computer system. Theoretical it seems very good. About 10 years ago I used 3 computers (Master MacPro and 2 rack PCs on Win XP). Yes, on 32-bit OS. It's a big difference comparing today 64-bit OS's. My concept was similar - to have under hands ready all articulations of VSL (for Giga Studio) and East West, Virtuoso, ProjectSam and many others old Akai and Emu libraries on hardware samplers - Akai S5000 and Emu-Synth 128 MB ram :) Final effect was really good, very epic (like Gladiator), but I spent 7 months for writing music to 92-minutes Film (Canadian prod.). Main DAW it was Nuendo 4; connection MIDI via high MOTU Interfaces and second PC (with Gigastudio 3) via NERD ipMIDI soft. Of course - I used 3 Audio Interfaces. It was interesting experience for me, but 75% of time you I spent for set-up all equipment, and main problem was with MIDI latency, even through network via ipMIDI soft. All working good at moment when you really use over 100 tracks... In one world - tell me, how working Vienna Ensemble Pro as main connection system? Maybe I come back to scenario with 2 Mac. 1. My question - theoretical I can connect two Mac via network (sessions) but this native connection is ABSOLUTELY not stable. What can you tell me about Vienna Ensemble Pro (responsible not only for MIDI, but for Audio transmission too)? 2. Maybe it's better use one strong new MacPro with 64 GB of RAM or more? With 2 computers I'm afraid about MIDI transmission and I have bad experiences - and I'm not talking about economical side of energy and noises... If you calculate all costs of additional equipment, + your time to setup - who knows, the final price will be similar... I work many times in Rewire functions DAW Cubase 9 pro + notation soft (Finale 25 or Notion 4), it's comfortable for composing. For recording - it's a other story.
Hello Roman, You can use VEPRO 5 for audio sessions as well. www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Ensemble_PRO Checking these videos are very useful. I also use same technology, difference is my slave computers are mac minis instead of PCs. Mac 2012 mini can take up to 16 gig but in return you get an extreme stability with all ecosystem being in OSX. My Minis have 256 SSD each, so i put there my favorite libraries. On the back end they are connected to 1 TB Western Digitals each for lesser important libraries alike sound design stuff. :) One thing I would do differently than David is that, he is setting all orchestra to slaves, articulation per-track basis and never touches again slaves again unless needed. If you will have sound design elements in slave pcs (or you are using keyswitch patches) you may (or will) miss the second tv/monitor. And connecting remotely to slaves whilst DAW sequences from VEPRO may create some instability or issues in network therefore i have multiple monitors don't rely on remote desktops. His suggestion about gigabit router and CAT 6 cables are critical. your connection to internet provider behind the home network is irrelevant but cables coming out from computers to router should support gigabit concept as well as your router itself. I have an Asus Nu model, so far it works. One thing I don't like about Vienna is their samples because they are dry samples I had to give a lot of sweat to make them sound :). VEPRO 5 also comes in with a small package called Epic Orchestra from Vienna Symphonic Libraries so you save couple hundred euros there with that compliment. Best,
From many years I use minimum 3 monitors (1x30" + 2x20" in Pivot). Now from 3 years I use 40" 4K Panasonic BDM4065 + 2 x 20" in Pivot. I recommend for You and David this Panasonic model - really very good and economical (only 40 Watt in "economy" mode of light - absolutely enough for working!). Regarding slave computer, what do you think, Gentleman, about server (HP Proliant), excluding noises it seems to be an item for many many years... I mean used model with 256 RAM DDR3?
Thank you so much. I've bitten the bullet and ordered the parts to build my 1st slave computer. Thanks for sharing this info. I'm relatively new to this but have managed to do pretty well with 1 really good MAC. But as my projects have become more complex, my mac has begun to struggle. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Love all your videos BTW. Keep up your talented work!
Thanks John; much appreciated! I was in the exact same boat as you. The first one I built was quite a learning curve. (If you have a savvy PC friend, it really helps, and/or if you find some RUclips videos on the actual building of the machine.) Now that I know my way around, it's pretty straightforward.
being a pro on some levels I am green on other levels. Can you please share more info about the gigabit router and dongle - including what works for you?
Check Vienna's site for more details (or the VEP manual), but I'm pretty sure any gigabit router will work. And the dongle just needs to be one of the Syncrosoft ones. (Again, details are in their manual.) I think there's only one kind, so you can't go wrong.
Oy Vey! Another bloody dongle! that's 3 I'll have if I got VEP but: THANKS for the video - you have really helped me. I mentioned in another post about my expensive Mac buying days being potentially over for a while, so this option deserves some serious attention.
Hi David! Thank you very much for this video! I remember stumbling upon your name for the first time more than 10 years ago at a time when I was into a capella music very much, in particular, I was doing Take 6 transcriptions myself and I found your name online on some Take 6 transcriptions of your creation! I am an aspiring orchestrator/composer myself and finding your channel is such an awesome surprise! Keep up the amazing work!
That Startup idea for the slaves is brilliant! I've been finding I am having problems using Microsoft Remote Desktop so I may give VNC a go. Thanks for this!
Hello David, just found your channel today, great setup and video! could you please make a video explaining how you paired the slaves with the router and dongles?! that'd be super awesome!
It doesn't really need a video, but it's pretty straightforward to plug all computers into the router (or ethernet switch), then Vienna Ensemble Pro handles all the cross-communication between master and slave(s). Dongles are only used on slave computers and it's as simple as plugging them in (after running the usual installers).
Wow! I thought that some tricky programming was needed, good to know it's a lot easier than I thought! Cheers from Ecuador, you have a great channel, glad I found you!
This is so cool. Thanks for the info! I wouldn't mind setting this up for my Kontakt drum samplers as they take up a decent amount of my CPU and it gets annoying freezing tracks and whatnot just to keep the session going. And that's just for 5-piece band stuff. Had no idea you could use Mac as your master rig and PC as slave, either. That definitely helps save some money!
It did take a while, and with every new projects, I tend to tweak/improve it. The time spent is well worth it, as each project gets better and smoother.
thank you so much Sir, started to watch..your Star Wars video...then let it play...while doing other work...and from the beginning...i was going crazy saying, i could i get in touch with you to ask for your computer set-up...and Boom, looking at your channel...this video id explaining everything...can wait to have time to watch it and take multiple notes...will get back to you, if you allow me, asap....to really understand everything...Thanks so much Sir, sincerely Jean-Marc
Hi brother. First of all, thank you so much for this GEM OF A KNOWLEDGE OF MASTER AND SLAVE! However, I, along with a whole lot of others, would love it if you could expatiate with a LIVE VIDEO EXAMPLE on how KONTAKT libraries work between MAC and windows. I work on Logic Pro X. any and all minutiae of information (including hardware and how they are/arent compatible with other hardware, etc.) on this networking and KONTAKT would be immensely appreciated. Thanks again. God bless!!
You can look at my Star Wars Secrets video if you want to see a version of this template in use. As far as hardware, all the most important info is in this very video (Ultimate Guide) that you've already watched. If you need more detailed help, that might be worth asking someone local to you to help. There are thousands of possible combinations out there, and everyone has different needs, budget, and experience, so I can't really cover that in a RUclips video. This video was intended just to give you the big picture info. Hope that helps!
Wow!! Amazing stuff and awesome tutorials. Unfortunately I found your channel not years ago. :/ Is it possible that you make a short video how to creat such a Digital Performer and Vienna Ensemble Template? I would love to see it in detail! Greetings from Germany.
Hi, thanks for the info. Quick question - I run Mac with all kontakt libraries for IOS. Do you need PC format to store them on a slave computer? Thanks.
Macs and Windows computers prefer different disk formats, and this can definitely affect Kontakt sample speed. So yes, any Macs should be formatted with Mac formats (Mac OS Journaled or APFS) and Windows drives should be formatted with Windows formats. Otherwise things may not work well.
Awesome as usual! I'm planning on building a Motion Graphics & 3D animation PC workstation that will also be a slave music workstation to my iMac (when the new iMacs come out)...some really great tips and pointers...that is a MASSIVE scoring template! I can't imagine how much time it took to set that up! I also loved how you names your slave machines after tennis players! ;)
:) So, in your case, graphics will be much more important, but that's easily remedied by simply adding a good graphics card. Depending on how large your sequencing template is, you might not need as much RAM. As another commenter pointed out, RAM prices have risen dramatically, so the cost is a little different now. But the principles are the same.
Because it's primarily going to be a graphics machine, yes, a powerful graphics card will be necessary (possibly 2), but I will also need a powerful CPU as well as lots of RAM, so all music applications that I'll be using will benefit from all that. Splitting sample libraries over multiple SSDs is a great idea and always wondered about that, so thanks again for the tip. I'm not a pro like you, so my "template" won't ever be that in depth! Looking forward to the next video!
Hey Dave..... great video! I have a 2013 Mac Pro ( trashcan ) 32 gigs of ram and a brand new MacBook Pro 32 gigs of ram .... I am very familiar with ve pro but setting up a network with the two machines is foreign to me. When I'm ready to do this would you be available to give me a hand setting it up? I would compensate you for your time obviously.
I'm not able to take on consulting like that, but there are a good number of people who do it who I can recommend. If you already know VE Pro then the network is very easy to set up (usually just a gigabit switch and you're good). If the two (or more) computers have internet, and it's fast enough (i.e. gigabit), it'll work automatically.
Hi David, great video.. I'm still using my Mac Pro 8 core as my main and only computer with cubase 10, I'm thinking of getting a slave and vep7, would my old Mac still be good to use as my master?
I presume it would work fine, but I have no experience with FL Studio and wouldn't know how good a program it is or how well it would work with a setup like this.
This is so helpful. One question, all the sample libraries you have on your slave PC’s, where are they backed up? Do you have other ssd’s as duplicate in your PC’s are on external drives ? Thank you
Great Video David! Thank you for this detailed explanation of a master/slave set up. Awesome!!!...I noticed that you have a NI Machine Studio as well. I am wondering how you incorporate hardware like NI Machine Studio for example in this type set up? is the hardware plugged into the master or slave computer?
Awesome video! One thing I worry about with the slave computer and VEP is HAVING to have a template of all my instruments.... my workflow prefers a fresh empty session when starting a new piece, is this possible with a slave and VEP? (I'm a MacBook pro and logic user if that helps at all?)
I'll illustrate by example: let's say I want to load a Strings KSW patch that has 3 articulations in it. In VEP/Kontakt I will load the Strings KSW 3 separate times. Then in DP, I'll have three MIDI tracks pointed at those three instruments. Then, in the first MIDI track I will put the key switch trigger for articulation 1 at the beginning (usually in measure 0). In the second MIDI track I will put the key switch trigger for articulation 2, and in the third, the third. That way, my first MIDI track is always triggering Strings Articulation 1, my second MIDI track is triggering Strings Articulation 2, and my third MIDI track is triggering Strings Articulation 3. Even though in theory I could switch any of them mid-stream, I like having them separated so I can easily see them. It also makes it easy to layer them if necessary.
David, would a mac mini serve the same purpose as a slave PC? For example would an iMac (32 GB memory) to use for the sequencer and some Vis and one mini mac as a slave (16 GB memory) to have most of the VIs serve this purpose? I am trying to see if I can save time instead of building my own slave buying parts etc, if I can have a ready mac mini serving this purpose.
Yes, it would work just fine. I would suggest putting the samples on an SSD. If your Mini's internal drive is an SSD and you have the space, that's the idea place. If not, a USB3 or Thunderbolt drive would be next best.
Definitely thumbs ups... both of them. But can you do a video about the install workflow?? i.e. setting up the audio outputs from the slave PC's and midi, etc... ???
I will try to do this in the future, but it's fairly straightforward. VEP handles the audio routing from the slave PC -- it comes back through the ethernet cable and into your stub plug-in on your main host machine. I'm sure there are probably plenty of videos showing this out there already.
Yeah, not so easy for me :P I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this but, I'm a sound designer who has no idea how that works. My workflow is pretty much limited to one computer - whether it's for foley or ADR - and recently, I've been thinking of adding a slave PC just for video sync with streamers. It really cuts down the hogging of resources, and speeds up the work. At least in theory of course.
No embarrassment. These are all new things until you wrap your brain around them. Adding a second computer certainly cuts down CPU usage for streaming, but it does add a new layer of complexity. Fortunately, VEP setup is fairly straightforward. I think if you search for some of Vienna's first VEP tutorials you'll probably find it all explained pretty straightforwardly.
Eek. I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to deal with Windows. I'm wondering about the process of installing and updating and maintaining of the PC and the VIs etc. Do you ever need to use a monitor and mouse on the PC, or can it all be done via VNC from the safety of a Mac?
Hey David! Thanks for the video - super informative! Quick question for ya: I’ve been composing on a single 2010 iMac for 8 years and it’s on its last leg trying to keep up with larger templates. I’m a big fan of VEP and am ready to build a PC to do this kind of master/slave offloading. With a $2500 budget, would you recommend building one powerful PC to become the master and use my iMac as a slave for samples, or would it be more efficient to build 2 less powerful PC’s and continue using the iMac as the master + 2 PC slaves, like your setup? My only concern with the iMac is its hardware becoming obsolete in a couple years as Apple continues bringing new OS updates. I should also mention that I need significantly more GPU / RAM to do more video editing and my iMac can’t be upgraded any more (so that editing work has to be done on a new PC). I appreciate your feedback!
When you want to edit a kontakt instrument, what's the process? Do you have to open the instrument on a slave and edit it? For example, if you want to turn on/off a built in far mic on one of the kontakt libraries.
Right, yes, you have to go on to the slave and edit it there. You can do it via VNC (screen sharing) which makes it easy to get in here with a few clicks, and you don't need to actually have a monitor on the slaves (after initial install/setup is done).
Great concise walkthrough David. Could you shed some light on the automation side? How do you automate if all kontakt instances are on the slave computers? Thanks in advance!
I use MIDI CC automation for everything -- e.g. mod wheel, volume, expression, etc. That way, all the automation lives in the MIDI sequencer's project -- so no matter how many projects I work on concurrently, they still recall perfectly on the PC's. If you're asking more about tweaking the front panels of the instruments, I don't do that (personally). I use the PC's for orchestral instruments only -- instruments which I don't really have to touch the front panels of. That would be possible, but would add another layer of complexity. My personal setup is more about using those PC's as sound modules that don't need to be touched. I only automate things via MIDI CC. Hope that answers the question!
Thanks, Dave. Although this is now a little dated, it was exactly what I have been looking for in order to transition into a multi-computer environment (I’m currently running everything on a beefed up single Mac Pro). Quick question for you or others: I’m trying to determine if my NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2 Controller will maintain full functionality across the LAN connections between the slaves and master? So many of the newer plugins have incredible interfaces and the keyboard has such great control features. I just don’t want to lose any of that ability to browse, preview, and control presets for my Komplete libraries or other NKS plug-ins when working on the S88 and across a network using VEP. Thanks.
Good question. I haven't used it like this before myself, so you might want to google for using the KK software through VEP and make sure you keep all those S88-specific features. I may start playing around with this a bit in the near future, so will try and post back if I learn anything new about it.
@@daviddas Thanks so much, man. I read where VSL is slowly adopting NKS interfacing with their Synchron series of plugins. But there's no word on the compatibility/communicability with the KK controllers over VEPro. I really want to set up a multi-computer environment much like the one you describe in the video, but if the KK controller loses integration across the network, then I'm likely better off just focusing on a more powerful single machine. But I really like the concept you laid out. Thanks, again.
@@reggiemullis4779 Sure thing. Yeah, I agree, KK is a special case. I just did a bit of googling and it looks like the advanced/custom KK features do NOT work through VEP (as far as I can tell). There are many users asking VSL for this; hopefully they'll consider it in the future.
Like you I am a big fan of Mac, they just lack on the power we need for these kinds of productions. I am curious how or if this would work for a Logic based setup. Logic is by far my favorite DAW but looking for a legal way to add power and I already have a capable PC built with i9 and 64 RAM. How, could that work?
Kontakt itself does take some CPU, and the more samples you need to play simultaneously, the more CPU will be required. The CPU portion of building a slave doesn't take a lot of extra money -- you would save only a little money by downgrading to a slower processor (an i5, for example), so it makes more sense just to get the best you can, so you don't have to worry about it.
Thank you for the reply, yeah it makes sense but I thought that the main computer was the one that mostly get the work. Also with the router, how come the slaves should be connected to it? Is the master slave configuration similar as a network or VPN? does just plugin the usb, thunderbolt, etc to the master as an Ad Hoc or Daisy chain makes more sense? Can you please put a video step by step on the actual configuration of this? I am a computer technician as well, so this is very important for me. THANK YOU!
You are an animal! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Tired of 5+ minutes Spitfire loading times every time I want to open a new patch
I have been looking for a video like this for ages. Thank you so much!
me too!
I was just thinking about doing this very same thing in FL Studio. Its a shame that many plug ins and VSTi's need so much for resources to sound best 👌.
Glad to see someone is just as much a mad man in the lab! Lol
The faster your computer, the less you may need multi-computer solutions like this. But everything is dependent upon your workflow and scale.
I've known about this process for quite some time, but no one's broken it down as simply (or in a way I can fully understand) as you have. Many thanks and kudos to you, sir!
Very glad to help!
DUDE ! THAT IS TERRIFIC !!!!!!! THANK YOU FOR DOING ALL THE WORK AND PUTTING IT ONLINE !!!!! Thanks Man !
Digital Performer is incredible for big projects. Search in tracks...amazing. Sequences in sequence is a great 4th dimension idea.
This is now, and forever will be, my favorite RUclips video.
Thank you.
🧙♂️
This is such an amazing video! One suggestion I would make is to use the Microsoft Remote Desktop client instead of TightVNC. It has a client for Mac and it is much more fluid to use.
Hello there, I use to be a keyswitch freak when it comes to placing orchestral tracks into DAW. After watching your video, I changed my template into articulation per track algorithm. Template received a vast number of tracks of course, (go multitimbral and you'll have 256*16 tracks in logic, VEPRO doesn't seem to have a problem either) but my creativity is boosted. In keyswitch, my articulations were somewhat restrained or jailed. I had to look at slave computer to remember what articluation was available.. This new experience was like a jailbreak for my template. It takes some hours to build but it is definitely a whole new experience in creativity. Thanks for this. Typing track names is a nightmare though :)
Right. It does take a long time. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind having a keyswitch-based template, except that I hate hunting-and-pecking for articulations. Other sequencers have better support for that (e.g. Cubase's Expression Maps). Hopefully that's something that'll come to DP in the future.
This video is an excellent tutorial for composing big cinematic music.
Maybe it looks like overkill, but you gonna need it more and more.
I used to work like this, but now I changed to a simple, mobile, low-cost and blank template.
Because I don't do big orchestra anymore.
Thanks for your time David!
I am always maxing out my Macbook as I need all colours available at once.
Been looking at AudioGridder and others but Vienna seems to be the "working" choice.
This is a dream for any composer, especially those who work with orchestra, thanks
Thanks David
You are an excellent educator and your videos throughout the years have provided me much needed clear-cut tutorials as I too am a Mac guy use DP in my composing. Your videos are always very thought out, intuitive, and of course educations.
I appreciate you sharing your set up in this video as well.
Thanks Russell! Glad to help.
Mark Ruffalo is so good at sound production.
I am so glad you are sharing this information. I am a composer from Bermuda and.
enjoyed this immensely. Thank you
Dave, you just saved me a lot of mis-steps! Thanks a million... or at least $4k-6k!
bro thanks so much, you actually made soft soft easy to understand
Thanks David! your advices are great for me:)
wow! this is great David! You're going to make a lot of people happy, no one's really making vids like this. #smart
You've just opened a whole new world for me!
You are Music Scientist..... Awesome man
... Though I have many Questions and yet to understand this setup but Yes I know it has a solution
Definitely gotta build myself a setup like this in the future. Thanks for making the video!
Thank you for this!!! As soon as I get my next album budget this will be the very first thing I'm investing in! Been curious how to get a set up going like this for a while now because I HATE having to free up resources by printing things to audio and not having my instruments ready at a moments notice, totally fucks with the creative flow of things and ideas! Where are you based out of if you don't mind me asking?
Much needed video as while the need for this is huge in terms of people looking the information is surprisingly sparse. Thank you!
A cheaper alternative for people who can't afford machines like that (but can use their spare computer, like I did) is NetVST, which does essentially the same thing, and it's free... the downside with NetVST is that one has to re-setup everything once the machine reboots (I did't find any option to use command line switches or plugin load automation for NetVST). However, in both instances it has the advantage that you coud use Kontakt or other plugins on systems for which they are not available, say Linux. This way you could use Kontakt in your Linux DAW
Awesome video, very very informative. I really like that you take your time to share your experience and knowledge - this is just great. My next setup will 'only' be a single computer with 64gb ram, 4 Core 7700k CPU (propably still better than 8 Core Ryzen 7), M.2 SSD 1TB, low latency motherboard and a consumer sound card i guess. I'll try to make some money out of that by composing some orchestral game music for companies and if i succeed I will upgrade to your slave computer setup to handle a realistic Vienna Symphonic Library :) See you in 2 years....hopefully! :D
Wonderful post! Sounds like a great game plan! That system should work great. I would probably put a decent sound card on it -- not a consumer level one -- but you can find simple pro level interfaces under $400 I think.
This is sooo cool! These days I am more into looking at my gear and watching videos about studio equipment and pcs, than actually making music. 😂😂 I'm such a tech guy. My name is David too
David, first of all, thanks for your professional videos. I am a big sceptic regarding multi computer system. Theoretical it seems very good.
About 10 years ago I used 3 computers (Master MacPro and 2 rack PCs on Win XP). Yes, on 32-bit OS. It's a big difference comparing today 64-bit OS's.
My concept was similar - to have under hands ready all articulations of VSL (for Giga Studio) and East West, Virtuoso, ProjectSam and many others old Akai and Emu libraries on hardware samplers - Akai S5000 and
Emu-Synth 128 MB ram :)
Final effect was really good, very epic (like Gladiator), but I spent 7 months for writing music to 92-minutes Film
(Canadian prod.). Main DAW it was Nuendo 4; connection MIDI via high MOTU Interfaces and second PC (with Gigastudio 3) via NERD ipMIDI soft. Of course - I used 3 Audio Interfaces. It was interesting experience for me, but 75% of time you I spent for set-up all equipment, and main problem was with MIDI latency, even through network via ipMIDI soft. All working good at moment when you really use over 100 tracks...
In one world - tell me, how working Vienna Ensemble Pro as main connection system? Maybe I come back to scenario with 2 Mac.
1. My question - theoretical I can connect two Mac via network (sessions) but this native connection is ABSOLUTELY not stable. What can you tell me about Vienna Ensemble Pro (responsible not only for MIDI, but for Audio transmission too)?
2. Maybe it's better use one strong new MacPro with 64 GB of RAM or more?
With 2 computers I'm afraid about MIDI transmission and I have bad experiences - and I'm not talking about economical side of energy and noises... If you calculate all costs of additional equipment, + your time to setup - who knows, the final price will be similar...
I work many times in Rewire functions DAW Cubase 9 pro + notation soft (Finale 25 or Notion 4), it's comfortable for composing. For recording - it's a other story.
Hello Roman,
You can use VEPRO 5 for audio sessions as well.
www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_Ensemble_PRO
Checking these videos are very useful. I also use same technology, difference is my slave computers are mac minis instead of PCs. Mac 2012 mini can take up to 16 gig but in return you get an extreme stability with all ecosystem being in OSX. My Minis have 256 SSD each, so i put there my favorite libraries. On the back end they are connected to 1 TB Western Digitals each for lesser important libraries alike sound design stuff. :)
One thing I would do differently than David is that, he is setting all orchestra to slaves, articulation per-track basis and never touches again slaves again unless needed. If you will have sound design elements in slave pcs (or you are using keyswitch patches) you may (or will) miss the second tv/monitor. And connecting remotely to slaves whilst DAW sequences from VEPRO may create some instability or issues in network therefore i have multiple monitors don't rely on remote desktops.
His suggestion about gigabit router and CAT 6 cables are critical. your connection to internet provider behind the home network is irrelevant but cables coming out from computers to router should support gigabit concept as well as your router itself. I have an Asus Nu model, so far it works.
One thing I don't like about Vienna is their samples because they are dry samples I had to give a lot of sweat to make them sound :). VEPRO 5 also comes in with a small package called Epic Orchestra from Vienna Symphonic Libraries so you save couple hundred euros there with that compliment.
Best,
I tried Vienna v4 years ago and found it iffy. The current version, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6, works very very well.
From many years I use minimum 3 monitors (1x30" + 2x20" in Pivot). Now from 3 years I use 40" 4K Panasonic BDM4065 + 2 x 20" in Pivot. I recommend for You and David this Panasonic model - really very good and economical (only 40 Watt in "economy" mode of light - absolutely enough for working!).
Regarding slave computer, what do you think, Gentleman, about server (HP Proliant), excluding noises it seems to be an item for many many years... I mean used model with 256 RAM DDR3?
Thanks for introducing me to a new way of life!! This is all I'm focused on for the next couple days
Thank you so much. I've bitten the bullet and ordered the parts to build my 1st slave computer. Thanks for sharing this info. I'm relatively new to this but have managed to do pretty well with 1 really good MAC. But as my projects have become more complex, my mac has begun to struggle. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Love all your videos BTW. Keep up your talented work!
Thanks John; much appreciated! I was in the exact same boat as you. The first one I built was quite a learning curve. (If you have a savvy PC friend, it really helps, and/or if you find some RUclips videos on the actual building of the machine.) Now that I know my way around, it's pretty straightforward.
being a pro on some levels I am green on other levels. Can you please share more info about the gigabit router and dongle - including what works for you?
Check Vienna's site for more details (or the VEP manual), but I'm pretty sure any gigabit router will work. And the dongle just needs to be one of the Syncrosoft ones. (Again, details are in their manual.) I think there's only one kind, so you can't go wrong.
David Das thanks again for sharing and for taking the time to help out. A bunch of good karma no doubt is on its way.
you are a true hero
I have done that it is very cool and works GREAT!!!
yo bro, really thankya. Big respect
Oy Vey! Another bloody dongle! that's 3 I'll have if I got VEP but:
THANKS for the video - you have really helped me. I mentioned in another post about my expensive Mac buying days being potentially over for a while, so this option deserves some serious attention.
Hi David! Thank you very much for this video! I remember stumbling upon your name for the first time more than 10 years ago at a time when I was into a capella music very much, in particular, I was doing Take 6 transcriptions myself and I found your name online on some Take 6 transcriptions of your creation! I am an aspiring orchestrator/composer myself and finding your channel is such an awesome surprise! Keep up the amazing work!
Great to hear. Thanks David!
Great video very thorough. I’m thinking maybe I should go this way, with my computers. Keep up the great work.Robert
Thanks David great video, I saw you have a book on KONTAKT also I will purchase it, I live in Ireland so need to source supplier
thank david you give me the right answers for my configuration great work with passion
Good video man! Thanks for the info. Slaving is definitely a streamlined approach, though it does take quite a while to set up
Wow thank u so much it's a great video, I have trying to figure out whether to gave multiple templates or just 1 !!!!!!
That Startup idea for the slaves is brilliant!
I've been finding I am having problems using Microsoft Remote Desktop so I may give VNC a go. Thanks for this!
You are EVERYWHERE, Luke!! :)
You rang? haha
Hello David, just found your channel today, great setup and video! could you please make a video explaining how you paired the slaves with the router and dongles?! that'd be super awesome!
It doesn't really need a video, but it's pretty straightforward to plug all computers into the router (or ethernet switch), then Vienna Ensemble Pro handles all the cross-communication between master and slave(s). Dongles are only used on slave computers and it's as simple as plugging them in (after running the usual installers).
Wow! I thought that some tricky programming was needed, good to know it's a lot easier than I thought! Cheers from Ecuador, you have a great channel, glad I found you!
So, VEP lives on the master?
VEP lives on both. It runs as the Server on the slave computers, and as the plug-in in the host on the main sequencing computer.
This is so cool. Thanks for the info! I wouldn't mind setting this up for my Kontakt drum samplers as they take up a decent amount of my CPU and it gets annoying freezing tracks and whatnot just to keep the session going. And that's just for 5-piece band stuff. Had no idea you could use Mac as your master rig and PC as slave, either. That definitely helps save some money!
This is superb! I can only imagine how long it took to set up your template. Many thanks for posting this.
It did take a while, and with every new projects, I tend to tweak/improve it. The time spent is well worth it, as each project gets better and smoother.
This has opened my eyes! Thank you for showing us all this stuff. Keep it up!
Pure gold, thanks David!
You’re the man!! Love this. Thank you!!!
Amazing video!! Thanks a lot! So hard to find this info so well explained like you did ;)
Thank you for this! Super cool video! A+++
Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing this!
Great video!!! Thank you.
Great video David, Glad to see you doing so well! Cheers!
thank you so much Sir, started to watch..your Star Wars video...then let it play...while doing other work...and from the beginning...i was going crazy saying, i could i get in touch with you to ask for your computer set-up...and Boom, looking at your channel...this video id explaining everything...can wait to have time to watch it and take multiple notes...will get back to you, if you allow me, asap....to really understand everything...Thanks so much Sir, sincerely
Jean-Marc
Thanks. Clear presentation. Planning to add a slave computer toward the end of next year.
Great video!! I'm so reluctant to go down this road, but my 6 core Mac Pro with 128gb ram just isn't enough anymore. :-(
thank you
Hi brother. First of all, thank you so much for this GEM OF A KNOWLEDGE OF MASTER AND SLAVE!
However, I, along with a whole lot of others, would love it if you could expatiate with a LIVE VIDEO EXAMPLE on how KONTAKT libraries work between MAC and windows. I work on Logic Pro X. any and all minutiae of information (including hardware and how they are/arent compatible with other hardware, etc.) on this networking and KONTAKT would be immensely appreciated.
Thanks again. God bless!!
You can look at my Star Wars Secrets video if you want to see a version of this template in use. As far as hardware, all the most important info is in this very video (Ultimate Guide) that you've already watched. If you need more detailed help, that might be worth asking someone local to you to help. There are thousands of possible combinations out there, and everyone has different needs, budget, and experience, so I can't really cover that in a RUclips video. This video was intended just to give you the big picture info. Hope that helps!
Wow!! Amazing stuff and awesome tutorials.
Unfortunately I found your channel not years ago. :/
Is it possible that you make a short video how to creat such a Digital Performer and Vienna Ensemble Template?
I would love to see it in detail!
Greetings from Germany.
Thank you so much for this
Brilliant! Thanks for posting!
Hi, thanks for the info. Quick question - I run Mac with all kontakt libraries for IOS. Do you need PC format to store them on a slave computer?
Thanks.
Macs and Windows computers prefer different disk formats, and this can definitely affect Kontakt sample speed. So yes, any Macs should be formatted with Mac formats (Mac OS Journaled or APFS) and Windows drives should be formatted with Windows formats. Otherwise things may not work well.
such a helpful and informativ video! Thank you very much for sharing!
Awesome as usual! I'm planning on building a Motion Graphics & 3D animation PC workstation that will also be a slave music workstation to my iMac (when the new iMacs come out)...some really great tips and pointers...that is a MASSIVE scoring template! I can't imagine how much time it took to set that up! I also loved how you names your slave machines after tennis players! ;)
:)
So, in your case, graphics will be much more important, but that's easily remedied by simply adding a good graphics card. Depending on how large your sequencing template is, you might not need as much RAM.
As another commenter pointed out, RAM prices have risen dramatically, so the cost is a little different now. But the principles are the same.
Because it's primarily going to be a graphics machine, yes, a powerful graphics card will be necessary (possibly 2), but I will also need a powerful CPU as well as lots of RAM, so all music applications that I'll be using will benefit from all that.
Splitting sample libraries over multiple SSDs is a great idea and always wondered about that, so thanks again for the tip.
I'm not a pro like you, so my "template" won't ever be that in depth!
Looking forward to the next video!
This is amazingly helpful! Thankyou!
Great video - thank you for sharing
thank you. exactly what i was looking for
You have a cockpit love it you r a genius thx 4 the vid
Hey Dave..... great video! I have a 2013 Mac Pro ( trashcan ) 32 gigs of ram and a brand new MacBook Pro 32 gigs of ram .... I am very familiar with ve pro but setting up a network with the two machines is foreign to me. When I'm ready to do this would you be available to give me a hand setting it up? I would compensate you for your time obviously.
I'm not able to take on consulting like that, but there are a good number of people who do it who I can recommend. If you already know VE Pro then the network is very easy to set up (usually just a gigabit switch and you're good). If the two (or more) computers have internet, and it's fast enough (i.e. gigabit), it'll work automatically.
Hi David, great video.. I'm still using my Mac Pro 8 core as my main and only computer with cubase 10, I'm thinking of getting a slave and vep7, would my old Mac still be good to use as my master?
Yes, it should work great. You'll feel pressure on the 8-core Mac Pro relieved since you are offloading much of its sample streaming.
David Das thanks for the reply 😀🎶😀
Wow! Great info! Thanks so much!
Would this kind of setup work if I wanted to sequence in FL Studio? With a PC laptop as my "Master" computer?
I presume it would work fine, but I have no experience with FL Studio and wouldn't know how good a program it is or how well it would work with a setup like this.
Amazing video. Helped so much!!
excellent thinking here. Since this video was made, have you made any changes in your setup?
Thanks sir, you just saved me a packet!
Great video
This is so helpful. One question, all the sample libraries you have on your slave PC’s, where are they backed up? Do you have other ssd’s as duplicate in your PC’s are on external drives ? Thank you
Super awesome information.
Thanks for the insight. Very interesting. 👍
Great Video David! Thank you for this detailed explanation of a master/slave set up. Awesome!!!...I noticed that you have a NI Machine Studio as well. I am wondering how you incorporate hardware like NI Machine Studio for example in this type set up? is the hardware plugged into the master or slave computer?
Amazing, thank you so much!!!
thank you! this was very helpful!
Awesome video! One thing I worry about with the slave computer and VEP is HAVING to have a template of all my instruments.... my workflow prefers a fresh empty session when starting a new piece, is this possible with a slave and VEP? (I'm a MacBook pro and logic user if that helps at all?)
Thanks so much. I'm trying to find connections using Steinbergs VST system link. Can't find much.
This is great, thank you 🙌🏻
You’ve once again sparked my attention, you said you have key switches assign individually, how?
I'll illustrate by example: let's say I want to load a Strings KSW patch that has 3 articulations in it. In VEP/Kontakt I will load the Strings KSW 3 separate times. Then in DP, I'll have three MIDI tracks pointed at those three instruments. Then, in the first MIDI track I will put the key switch trigger for articulation 1 at the beginning (usually in measure 0). In the second MIDI track I will put the key switch trigger for articulation 2, and in the third, the third. That way, my first MIDI track is always triggering Strings Articulation 1, my second MIDI track is triggering Strings Articulation 2, and my third MIDI track is triggering Strings Articulation 3. Even though in theory I could switch any of them mid-stream, I like having them separated so I can easily see them. It also makes it easy to layer them if necessary.
@@daviddas Thanks for the great break down, I like this setup
David, would a mac mini serve the same purpose as a slave PC? For example would an iMac (32 GB memory) to use for the sequencer and some Vis and one mini mac as a slave (16 GB memory) to have most of the VIs serve this purpose? I am trying to see if I can save time instead of building my own slave buying parts etc, if I can have a ready mac mini serving this purpose.
Yes, it would work just fine. I would suggest putting the samples on an SSD. If your Mini's internal drive is an SSD and you have the space, that's the idea place. If not, a USB3 or Thunderbolt drive would be next best.
Definitely thumbs ups... both of them. But can you do a video about the install workflow?? i.e. setting up the audio outputs from the slave PC's and midi, etc... ???
I will try to do this in the future, but it's fairly straightforward. VEP handles the audio routing from the slave PC -- it comes back through the ethernet cable and into your stub plug-in on your main host machine. I'm sure there are probably plenty of videos showing this out there already.
Yeah, not so easy for me :P I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this but, I'm a sound designer who has no idea how that works. My workflow is pretty much limited to one computer - whether it's for foley or ADR - and recently, I've been thinking of adding a slave PC just for video sync with streamers. It really cuts down the hogging of resources, and speeds up the work. At least in theory of course.
No embarrassment. These are all new things until you wrap your brain around them. Adding a second computer certainly cuts down CPU usage for streaming, but it does add a new layer of complexity. Fortunately, VEP setup is fairly straightforward. I think if you search for some of Vienna's first VEP tutorials you'll probably find it all explained pretty straightforwardly.
Eek. I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to deal with Windows. I'm wondering about the process of installing and updating and maintaining of the PC and the VIs etc. Do you ever need to use a monitor and mouse on the PC, or can it all be done via VNC from the safety of a Mac?
After the OS and VNC is installed, you don't particularly need monitor/mouse on the PC. I unplugged them and now access them entirely via VNC.
Hey David! Thanks for the video - super informative! Quick question for ya: I’ve been composing on a single 2010 iMac for 8 years and it’s on its last leg trying to keep up with larger templates. I’m a big fan of VEP and am ready to build a PC to do this kind of master/slave offloading. With a $2500 budget, would you recommend building one powerful PC to become the master and use my iMac as a slave for samples, or would it be more efficient to build 2 less powerful PC’s and continue using the iMac as the master + 2 PC slaves, like your setup? My only concern with the iMac is its hardware becoming obsolete in a couple years as Apple continues bringing new OS updates. I should also mention that I need significantly more GPU / RAM to do more video editing and my iMac can’t be upgraded any more (so that editing work has to be done on a new PC). I appreciate your feedback!
Hello . Iam learning this type of setup . Could you share the routing setup inout between Vienna on slave and main Daw on the master computer ? Thanks
Thank you my friend
When you want to edit a kontakt instrument, what's the process? Do you have to open the instrument on a slave and edit it? For example, if you want to turn on/off a built in far mic on one of the kontakt libraries.
Right, yes, you have to go on to the slave and edit it there. You can do it via VNC (screen sharing) which makes it easy to get in here with a few clicks, and you don't need to actually have a monitor on the slaves (after initial install/setup is done).
Awesome. Thank you.
Hey can you talk about the cabling up of the system? Does the master computer plug into a router via rj45 to access the slave and vice versa?
Usually you just use a gigabit switch (cheap -- about $15) or gigabit router. Check the VEP manual for further details.
Great concise walkthrough David. Could you shed some light on the automation side? How do you automate if all kontakt instances are on the slave computers? Thanks in advance!
I use MIDI CC automation for everything -- e.g. mod wheel, volume, expression, etc. That way, all the automation lives in the MIDI sequencer's project -- so no matter how many projects I work on concurrently, they still recall perfectly on the PC's.
If you're asking more about tweaking the front panels of the instruments, I don't do that (personally). I use the PC's for orchestral instruments only -- instruments which I don't really have to touch the front panels of. That would be possible, but would add another layer of complexity. My personal setup is more about using those PC's as sound modules that don't need to be touched. I only automate things via MIDI CC.
Hope that answers the question!
Thanks, Dave. Although this is now a little dated, it was exactly what I have been looking for in order to transition into a multi-computer environment (I’m currently running everything on a beefed up single Mac Pro).
Quick question for you or others: I’m trying to determine if my NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2 Controller will maintain full functionality across the LAN connections between the slaves and master? So many of the newer plugins have incredible interfaces and the keyboard has such great control features. I just don’t want to lose any of that ability to browse, preview, and control presets for my Komplete libraries or other NKS plug-ins when working on the S88 and across a network using VEP.
Thanks.
Good question. I haven't used it like this before myself, so you might want to google for using the KK software through VEP and make sure you keep all those S88-specific features. I may start playing around with this a bit in the near future, so will try and post back if I learn anything new about it.
@@daviddas Thanks so much, man. I read where VSL is slowly adopting NKS interfacing with their Synchron series of plugins. But there's no word on the compatibility/communicability with the KK controllers over VEPro. I really want to set up a multi-computer environment much like the one you describe in the video, but if the KK controller loses integration across the network, then I'm likely better off just focusing on a more powerful single machine. But I really like the concept you laid out. Thanks, again.
@@reggiemullis4779 Sure thing. Yeah, I agree, KK is a special case. I just did a bit of googling and it looks like the advanced/custom KK features do NOT work through VEP (as far as I can tell). There are many users asking VSL for this; hopefully they'll consider it in the future.
Like you I am a big fan of Mac, they just lack on the power we need for these kinds of productions. I am curious how or if this would work for a Logic based setup. Logic is by far my favorite DAW but looking for a legal way to add power and I already have a capable PC built with i9 and 64 RAM. How, could that work?
I have a question regarding about the slaves. So why the processor has to be so powerful? Isnt the processor of the master taking the processing load?
Kontakt itself does take some CPU, and the more samples you need to play simultaneously, the more CPU will be required. The CPU portion of building a slave doesn't take a lot of extra money -- you would save only a little money by downgrading to a slower processor (an i5, for example), so it makes more sense just to get the best you can, so you don't have to worry about it.
Thank you for the reply, yeah it makes sense but I thought that the main computer was the one that mostly get the work. Also with the router, how come the slaves should be connected to it? Is the master slave configuration similar as a network or VPN? does just plugin the usb, thunderbolt, etc to the master as an Ad Hoc or Daisy chain makes more sense? Can you please put a video step by step on the actual configuration of this? I am a computer technician as well, so this is very important for me. THANK YOU!
Some cool video editing skills. What extra plugins are you using to create some of these graphics? Like the PC list of parts.
Apple Keynote.
You're the man! Thanks
now i am in a good mood