Should Chris Webber Make the Hall of Fame? | Bill Simmons's Book of Basketball 2.0
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- Опубликовано: 15 дек 2020
- In this excerpt from the latest ‘Book of Basketball 2.0’ podcast, Bill Simmons is joined by Wizards/Bullets fan and longtime friend Joe House to reflect on the career of Chris Webber. He was an undeniably great player, but for many reasons, he never really seemed to put it all together.
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Webber was drafted into a GSW team that was primed for a great run. Webber, Mullin, Hardwaway, Spreewell, and a very solid bench. In his first year they looked very strong and they could have been great. But Web did not like his HOF coach telling him to get in the paint and get rebounds. Now... I don't like people yelling at me either, but I could never forgive that guy for screwing up that team by demanding a trade and sending it into a tailspin.
To be fair the Dubs messed that up because there is no way they should not have gotten back a better haul. Plus in hindsight who knows if Webber and Sprewel would have even got along or if Sprewel would of became as good so soon.
if we need a debate for chris webber being a hall of fame then we need to start taking people out of the HOF. it's an obvious yes, but if you're thinking no then start protesting the HOF.
It would feel wrong to remove players from the hall, but there is a point to be made that there are for sure guys in the hall who really shouldnt be
@@theheebs100 no doubt. i just don't want it to be awkward or unfair when amar'e, carmello, dwight, or people like that get into the hall of fame. they're not question marks based on the bar set by hall of famers in it. they are 1st ballet.
@@thetrib1 I completely get your point, but at the same time it's still interesting hearing people debate about whether people *should* be in the HOF, not whether they will be. And for that, it's more about the career of an individual player rather than "well he'll get in because X got in and he was better than that".
Thank you!
@@thetrib1 Amare is 1st Ballot???🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Joe house looks like Norm Macdonald
I dig this comparission. I could listen to either talk for hours
If he boxed professionally
That guy sounds like a real jerk
Except House doesn't own a dog house.
Good comment
Yes definitely was top 20 player for atleast 10 years, top 5 at his position for atleast 6-7 years, at his peak was averaging 20, 10, an 5 assist as a big man, with a block an a half per game, at an era were the 4 spot was loaded
He averaged 28 a year one year too
Ultimately I agree with you but I don’t think “top 20 player for at least 10 years” is the best criterion. Like if a guy were the 15th-20th best player for a decade, I wouldn’t think of that guy as an obvious HoFer (trying to think of a current example, maybe like Blake Griffin?)
@@gethaunted I'm with you on that
Yes, yes and yes. Couldn’t agree more
@@gethaunted lol an Griffin will have the same problem as well once he retires just as Amare is now borderline hall of famers now shame in that
Nice to see Joe House in HD
Id like to see Joe House eat an extravagant dinner in HD
Speak for yourself. The man makes me look like a sex symbol, lol
Can’t believe that they didn’t mention that Webber should’ve won a ring in 02. Refs had literally put money on the Lakers.
The podcast is 80 minutes, they do mention it.
Tell em...Facts.
Dang, House has a law degree? Props.
@@Hotonez303 American College of Samoa with Jimmy aka Saul Goodman.
They rich white boys from Boston,
If they don't know what they're doing with their lives they get an MBA or a law degree
Still.gotta do.the work, but a big support system at the back and opportunities at the front
@@EzekielDBarrett bro you ain't lying
@@Hotonez303 He's no Jeff Winger.
what that coincident with? lol
If Mitch Richmond is a HOFer, Chris Webber has to be
yes
McGrady and Richmond are HOFers. You gotta put Webber in
This.....
Richmond is??
C Webb def should be ! Tmac is a first ballot HOF with no playoff series wins until being a bench warmer and he lost a series to Detroit being up 3-1 .
C webb brought so much joy to us Kings fans he had a great run here. He was electric every time he stepped on the court.
So basically you guys got everything he was supposed to give us here in Washington!
They trying to play C.Webb like he was a scrub or Boarder line Allstar..
Before he Tore his ACL in the 03 playoffs..he was an all star and all nba.. .. made the kings relevant.. almost a champion..
Absolutely robbed of the 02 title
he wASNT EVEN THERI BEST PLAYER
They aren’t they are litterally saying he should be C Webb was good but not great but he has had a basketball hof
@Edward Fisher Actually, it was a torn lateral meniscus in his knee, not an ACL.
Stoudimire gonna have this problem in a couple years
Was thinking the same thing
Dont think Amare will get in .
@@grvmbinoscott7163 Ya, I love Amare but he's not a Hall of Famer
@@grvmbinoscott7163 actually, he should get in though. There are players who've achieved less than he has and are hofers
Stoudemire was the Shawn Kemp of the 2000's. Super strong start to their careers, but their bodies ultimately failed them
One of my favorite sports debates and 2 of the best to listen to
He averaged 21, 10, 4, 1.5, 1.5 over a 15 year career with 80 playoff games.
Hes a hof.
Well that just shows how low the bar is
@@owethunala2632 more like distorted
@@BinniamEskender true lol
Also has a 51 and 26 rebound game under his belt also has better career avgs than kevin Garrett..webber was that dude for 10 years
TMac opened the floodgates for letting “what if” guys in HoF
In my opinion I think the basketball hall of fame is the softest hall of fame of the major sports. I love TMac but he was great for a 5-6 year stretch with no playoff success
Laettner was gone he called the Timeout vs North Carolina.
Season 3 has been great. Looking forward to each week to see who you are discussing.
Yes he shoulda been in by now we know the Michigan scandal is the real reason he not in there
Which is a good reason considering hes never redeemed himself from that
@@rileygarcia1 he fucked it up from a moral standpoint but in terms of basketball he should be in the hof no question he went against the best onslaught of power forwards the league's ever had
@@rileygarcia1 I’m with you. Im not saying he’s the only crooked guy in basketball, but he’s so lucky to be in the privileged position he is imo
Its not the NBA HOF. It's the basketball HOF. C-Web's college and pro career should get him in.
These are my favorite Bill pods
If you have to wonder if someone is a HOFer, then they're not a HOFer
C Webb is all time underrated and underappreciated though
Chris Webber was a beast 20pts 10 reb a game for years. real basketball fans know bout C Webb!
Media is giving Webb a tough time. His basketball resume is Hall of Fame worthy. He should’ve been in years ago.
What? No
Because of the low bar of the Basketball HOF, sure.
Hell Yeah. The referees helped Lakers throughout the western conference finals. Webber and the Kings were a problem
The Sports Guy.. The Podfather.. Bill is great writing or talking. Salute.
If Webb wins the ring he deserved in 2002 these guys are singing a different story. Webb was a beast with the Kings and was the leader of the best team in the league that season.
That was a true travesty, one of my friends still cant get over that WCF.
@@Grimmes12 I'm right there with your friend. I have been watching the NBA since 1984 and that was the biggest travesty of a series that I have personally seen.
@@nocturne311 yea my friend LeRoy is the biggest CWebb fan and he still has a hard time talking about that series
@@Grimmes12 I can only imagine. What makes it worse is the Kings built themselves up to the point in which they were finally able to beat the Lakers after losing in '00 and '01... and then they got screwed for the sake of a three-peat because the NBA desperately needed to fill the void left by Jordan with something historically significant, regardless of how it was generated.
I loved those old Kings teams, but Webber and Peja never wanted the ball in crunch time. The biggest reason why they didn't win was because one of those guys was always hurt/choked or both
Absolutely!
Early in the 1st quarter at Baltimore Arena, I watched as it dawned on Webber that Muresan couldn't handle Alonzo Mourning and that he'd have to play center that night. He packed it in for the night right there and then. That's Chris Webber to me.
LMAO really Zo that's your basis LMAO who could guard him? Stop it
@@6Hustles the thought he had to switch to him made him quit on the game before he even tried. THAT was the point.
Hall Of Fame talent ? Yes. Hall of fame career ? Maybe. But in his prime,it was a work of art how he operated from the high post in that Sacramento offense.
first of all we need ben wallace in the hall. then we can add webber. its getting to the point now where if you even made an all star team your destined to the hall.
No one gets in that avgs less than 10 ppg
He def should been a 1st ballot the Fab Five Revolution the game in the 90s and he was a beast on the kings .
CWeb became much more crafty after he added Buzz Braman as a shooting coach.
Buzz was an unknown genius in developing/teaching proper shot mechanics. Almost every player today who thinks he can shoot, owes a debt of gratitude to Buzz Braman.
Where can we get the whole podcast video. On spotify there's no video.
I love House saying he didn't have money but he bought season tickets, lol. You're a real man of the people House. Most people scraping by can afford to buy season tickets for fun.
Webber needs to be in the HOF. He should of won a ring if the Kings weren’t robbed by the refs in 01. Vote him in!!!!
SHOULD HAVE
That was 02 but you're on the right track.
THANK YOOOOOU!!! They were robbed!!! Why doesn't anyone talk about that.
C-Webb a first ballot. People forget how great he was. He played in the golden era of power forwards.
And was the 5th best, we really thinking the 5th best player at their own position in their era is first ballot?
Webbers college career also helps his case
And his college career is what will make sure he wont make it in the HOF. People already forgot the scandal involving fab 5 in Michigan?
@@sharanv6279 people forgave. they were welcomed back to the campus. juwan howard is the coach of the team. nobody cares anymore.
His college career is like 40% of the reason why he should make it basketball-wise and then NBA career stats speak for itself and the fact he led a winning period for the damn Sacramento Kings.
I don't agree....he was only at Michigan 2 years. His NBA career is the overwhelming reason he should be in the HOF
Prototype for today's power forward and he was LBJ-like in terms of watchability. Absolutely deserves a HoF spot--just a shame his Kings runs got derailed.
It was their year when he blew out his knee in the playoffs.
I'm here to see if Bill mentions that Rasheed Wallace was a disappointment...
Wellllllll......
@@stringer2295 😐
**Uses off hand to airball three pointer**
@@EzekielDBarrett sometimes he didn't airball them tho
I just checked the 2019 inductee class and didn't even recognize half of those names. Chris Webber is a No-Brainer Hall of Famer
That's a bad reason to put someone in
No question ! CWEBB
yes
Are Ringer podcasts now going to be in person rather than Zoom?
I'm not a Chris Webber guy, but let's remember its not the NBA hall of fame but the basketball hall of fame, so his whole resume warrants a hall of fame selection
fab 5 is enough. but his sacramento team was one of the most fun to watch ever. definitely HOF easily.
What do you mean the fab 5 is enough? Do you mean it's enough to get him into the HOF
@@owethunala2632 for me yes. it was one of the best college teams of all time.
@@Ranblv yes but that's not the enough to make him a HOFer
Well it shouldn't be but that's your opinion
Of course he should!! Best power forward ever!!
Forgot to mention North Carolina with the other three teams. You know, the team Webber called the timeout against, lol. Btw, Bibby never shied away from taking a shot in the playoffs
“Mitch Richmond is in the Hall of Fame. Are you gonna tell me X shouldn’t be in it?” I’m pretty sure I heard this from someone at the Ringer awhile ago.
The reason Webber looked for shooters because he didn't have a go-to shot besides the jump hook. He was exactly like KG. Both were great athletes with limited offensive skills.
No KG had better defense along more years of consistency and multiple finals appearance which earned him a ring.
You just said it, his go to shot was the jump hook, KG had the turnaround jumper, Duncan had the bank shot, etc...
It would be amazing to see the Fab Five as an entity, and thus all five guys, be inducted into the HOF....
This isn't even a debatable question. Webber is 100% a HOF'er!
We need an NBA Hall of Fame!!!!
If T-mac is in then Cwebb and Shawn Kemp should be in too
Webber talent is FAR away from T-Mac talent.
@@David-mu8hn we are talking about careers..Chris before his injurie always went past the first round..Tmac didn't
@@David-mu8hn all that talent did what for tmac, outside of some scoring burst..didn't lead to winning..
Chris Webber and T-Mac should be in but I don’t think Shawn Kemp is a hall of famer. Webber was great in college and in the NBA and T-Mac was made seven All-NBA teams. Kemp doesn’t have a resume like the other two.
@@AyushSingh-ky8ix Shawn Kemp got his team multiple times on WCF and nba Finals..Tmac just scored on a bad team..he was great but if he is a Hall of famer Shawn Kemp should be in too
Japanese people love him.
when i was kids, I send letter to webber from japan.
He Returned the letter to me.
I am impressed.
prime Cwebb just beautiful man
With who all is in the basketball hall of fame he should be in. It's the basketball hall of fame, not an NBA hall of fame. Diva is in, Mitch Richmond is in, and others that deserve it less then him are in.
Mitch Richmond might not be deserving but Vlade Divac definitely deserves to be in the HOF
@@AyushSingh-ky8ix I just mentioned those two, because I think Webber had a better career then them. There are players in the basketball HOF that are less deserving then all three. The basketball HOF is a lot different then the MLB or NFL. I wish they would be more strict and none of the three were in, because I think HOF should be for the elite. With the criteria and who they have let ib, Webber should be in. The only reason him or Hardaway aren't in is because of politics.
Luv C webb
If Mitch Richmond and T-Mac are in, C-Webb should be in.
The '02 Kings were the best team in the league but Bibby was the alpha dog with some epic performances in the Lakers series. Plus the Fab Five stuff of course.
Bibby wasn't the alpha dog in '02. He just had a scoring mentality and Webber had a bit of a selfless, passive mentality at times. Webber was the best player on that squad and the alpha regardless. Mike Bibby might have been Sacramento's alpha in '04.
@@nocturne311 Over the course of the season of course, you're absolutely right. I was referring to that unfortunate series with the Lakers where Mike was the one with the refuse to lose attitude, especially in an epic game (I don't remember which one it was! 6?) where he put the team on his back, hitting clutch shot after clutch shot.
'02 Kings and '07 Suns were the teams I was the most bummed out for, for not reaching the Finals.
@@pancon5 Do you remember if Sacramento won or lost? Sounds like game 7.
@@nocturne311 👍 They had lost that one.
The Western conference was a gauntlet back then. Lakers, Kings, Blazers, Suns and Spurs.
He should be a champion.... You cant talk about him without mentioning how rigged was the 2002 finals
Would love to hear thoughts on Derrick Coleman.
House jacket is sick anyone know what brand it is
In the current rule structure and style of play his numbers wouldn't warrent him being in the hof, but back then 105 was a high scoring game so to average over 20 pts and 10 rebounds and 5 assists with the contact allowed back then he should definitely be in
HELL YEAH! If Grant Hill, Tracy Mcgrady and Jason Kidd are in then Chris Webber should definitely be in two he was the 2nd or 3rd best PF for a decade after Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett
HOUSE!!!!!
Underrated rebounder
Kings fan here. If Vlade Divac is a hall of famer C Webb is!
Quizas el mejor pasador de los jugadores Big como dicen los yanquis, ademas su impacto cultural con Michigan. Si, pudo ser mas, no importa, es HoF.
How about putting the fab five in as a group?
Tim Donaghy is the only reason why we are even asking this question. Webber's Kings would have crushed the Nets in the 2002 NBA Finals and then Webber is a no-brainer Hall of Famer.
“...to spend the few dollars I had.” GFY
He only made one All-NBA First Team.
That might be more about him playing the majority of his prime against the greatest power forward in the history of the league (Duncan), and another top six one (Garnett).
And enough about his Washington Bullets time. They were a young team that was doomed to be destroyed against the Bulls. Plus he was with Juwan Howard, who was a huge up and comer at that point. I think its safe to say that Sacramento won that trade when they sent Mitch to Washington for Webber.
Chris Webber and those Kings teams were so exciting to watch. The most entertaining team of the early 2000’s.
Ever since they inducted T-Mac and Vlade, the bar is so low now, its hard to think of a guy that shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.
Believe tmac was 1st ballot which is ridiculous
Idk what Bill is talking about.. besides maybe Recent Kentucky under Cal, its still unprecedented for 5 freshmans to get to a final 4.
One thing I have always wondered is during the 2001 Allstar Game finish. Chris Webber is not able to do a final tip in and clock expires. Latrell Sprewell rushes from the bench and starts yelling and harrassing C-webb while all the other East teammates celebrate. This is early internet era so I cant find any information on why Sprewell is so upset.
If Tmac made it, vince will be probably will, cwebb should, that short kings run may have been the only memorable or relevant run he had but he was great during that time, don't care if he's not clutch , you can argue tmac and carter never had much clutch or signature moments in the playoffs , carter had the 01 run to the second round but that's about it,
VINCER WAS MUCH BETTER player at his peak than webber, webber was never THE GUY
This wouldn't even be up for debate if he stayed with the Warriors.
That, being said, his run wasn't long enough or dominant enough, but everyone gets in to the basketball hall of fame, so he'll get in.
Chris webber should be in the hall no doubt..hes a career 20 and 10 guy for a decade one of the most talented power fowards ever
Of course. We found out the fix was in during the Lakers series.
Shaq once questioned whether Tim Duncan should be considered the best PF, because what about Chris Webber?
Of course, Shaq has a problem with Duncan, and in no way does Webber's resume in the NBA compare with Duncan's. But it's still interesting that he named Webber as a comp to Duncan anyway.
Two of the most egregious recent HOF inductees: Mitch Richmond, and Terrell Davis in the NFL. Immense respect for both guys, as they seemed like classy players, but no way were they hall of famers.
Richmond had 3 memorable seasons with Run TMC, but had no team success in Sacramento whatsoever. He basically disappeared into an abyss.
And TD, his career was way too short. Granted he won two Super Bowls. He was simply a great RB, just not a HOF running back.
TD was a hall of fame level running back. He had a 2,000 yard season. He was the reason the Broncos won two Super Bowls. He just didn't make it because, as you mentioned, his career was cut short due to injuries. Regardless, he was HOF level.
Yes
Yes. Next?
I know Webber is a divisive guy but I've always liked him. Those Kings teams were so fun to watch. To be fair I was born in 90 so I don't have the same expectations embedded inside my head for him. He was just fun to watch. Such a good passer.
The impact to the college game puts him over the line.
I can't make a snap decision about the HOF. Lemme take a time-out and think about it....
THE ANSWER IS YES
Webber was third in line for blame for time out.
Coach first. He should have managed time outs better and stressed to the team there were none left.
Second was Jalen. As a PG he should have gone straight to Webber and collected the ball after the rebound, not run up the court, waving for the ball while standing next to a defender. That's why Webber travelled. He was expecting his PG and best friend to be there and he wasn't.
CWeb yes, as good as any of his contemporaries. If his 2 at Michigan are HOF worthy does Laettener get a spot too?
I'm born 88, so obviously missed fab 5 and wasn't fully aware of the whole scope of c webb, but he seemed disappointing ever since I can remember and even though he's gotta a lot of.years in the league, I felt like he was relevant for just a handful of years
You guys can be so smug and wrong at the same time. You put any other great 4 from that era on those Kings teams it doesn't work. You put C Web on any of the other great 4s from that eras teams and they do just as well. He called the time out in the Carolina game, he was by far the best college bball player that year. Laitner was already a Timberwolf
If you let Chris Webber in the HOF, then you gotta induct Ron Artest, Jermaine O’Neal, Richard Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Allen Houston, Vin Baker, Derek Fisher, Rashad Lewis, Sam Cassell, Tony Allen, Zach Randolph and others
LOL
Wat
Chris Webber is a HOFer period...he is part of basketball history...when we tell that he is in it...
College basketball has less of the talent than it used to plus the game in itself has advanced to where nba is soooo much better than the next level down that college looks that much worse
the answer is yes
Yes.
Why is this even a debate! If your top 10-15 all time at your position your in. Especially with stellar college carree
C Webb is a no doubt Hall of Famer!! I don’t see how it’s debatable to be honest..
Basketball hall of fame is the easiest of the major sports to make, Chris Webber stats and all star games are enough to make it. Should have been in it a while ago.
I agree wit you two that C. Webb is HOF. But where do we draw the line? He is slightly better then Kemp, n he ain't in. And I don't think KLove or CBosh was better then either of them guys but have LBJ and did nothing without Kang. Also how GHILL get in? His good yrs was in Detroit comparable to Webber in Sac. But after that he was just a role player 🤔. What y'all thought?