Second listen-watch through for me, caught so much more this time. I feel enlightened and educated. Thank you LML for all your hard work. I support your idea of making a stand alone book 1000%.
Thanks so much sanrixian, and thanks for joining our Patreon! I am have been thinking about this book more lately. I am sure I will write it at some point, and I really appreciate the encouragement.
When you were talking about the Garden of Eden, I realised came to the realisation that Adam and Eve probably didn't need the snake to tempt them, God just saying to Adam and Eve, 'whatever you do don't do eat of this tree,' and he was basically just asking for trouble. Terry Pratchett said something to the effect that if you had a red button and a newly painted sign saying: 'Do not touch', the paint wouldn't even have time to get dry.
Wow. This is amazing. When you were speaking about the two potential swords, it made me think of the Japanese legend of Masamune and Murasame, two sword makers. Masamune made a sword whose name translates into "Tender Hands," and though it was incredibly sharp, it would never cut the deserving. Murasame's sword, 10,000 Cold Nights (I'm serious...unless my source is lying) would cut anything that went past it. Dawn would equate to the Masamune whereas Lightbringer would be Murasame, since if anything would pierce Nissa Nissa, it wouldn't be a sword that refused to cut the innocent..unless corrupted. Going along with your theory if Azor Ahai was the villain, it's possible a white sword became a black sword after that act. There's a Welsh myth called (fittingly) The Sword and it's about Dyrnwyn, the Sword of Rhyderch Hael (white hilt) that turns black when it spills innocent blood. I think Martin is drawing from these stories as well.
The Queen of Sevens okay, well that's really interesting. I've been looking for a precedent for a white sword turning black, either literally, or symbolically if the Bloodstone Emperor's black meteor sword represents a corrupt version of the older Dawn white sword technology. Very cool find! I'll have to look into that further.
right on, these are actually the ideas that were most powerful to me as well among all my first essays. Hence taking the name. Glad it was enlightening for you too :)
I've now completed this and feel very enlightened. I had to listen to a couple of them more than once, but it's only because the information is so rich and dense. I have to say that I find this compendium very compelling and convincing. Even the Tyrion Targaryen stuff - I enjoyed that one and the stories from Chinese legends. Thanks for all your hard work and content creation. :) And now, Sacred Order of Green Zombies!
You should have done this video as the first. Gives such a great setup for what you lay out in 1-3. I get that you waited because this one can be a bit more controversial, but the info in 6 makes 1-3 much more understandable. Great work!
I enjoyed that so much. I read the essay on your website first & really liked it.Your GOTS content is interesting & thoroughly done, but what I really tune into hear about is just the mythology & history of earth. I wish more Christians knew the origin story of their faith, its political/historical & mythological influences. This idea that it sprang fully formed as contemporary evangelism or that the Bible is somehow inerrant & was always in English & always interpreted the same way is ludicrous. Sigh. It's been a long time since I've been able to geek out on mythology like this. I haven't thought about Joseph Campbell in years...or Jung for that matter. Nobody to talk to about it :( I think I'm going to look into whatever "patreon" is. Is that like being a PBS supporter or Kickstarter donator? Nevermind, I'll figure it out.♡
One little nitpick: the Catholic Church had very little actual influence on the establishment of biblical canon. If they were out to create an authoritarian system (which they were) they would have to go about it some other way (which they did). They exercised immense power over people by establishing themselves as the sole authority (in western Europe, that is) on spiritual contact with God.
In the region I am from Christianity appropriated all the pagan gods into Christian saints. They just took existing superstitions and renamed them. That is how they got the smallfolk. Then under pressure of smallfolk the lords had to convert. For those lords, who could read and write, and the aristocracy in general, the written word is for them. And the priests are somewhere in the middle. Or at least they used to be. The catholic church managed to misinterpret and change some things in translation. Was it just a clerical error? Honestly I doubt
It's interesting that you bring up Isaiah 14. I found it very similar to the chapter in aSoS where the Hound is put on "trial" by the brotherhood without banners; In the Bible passage, the king of Babylon goes to the underworld where he is taunted for his crimes, like the Hound is confronted with his crimes in a cave underground. The kings of the world are said to sit upon thrones, and tell Babylon that he will rest upon worms, while Dondarrion sits on a throne of weirwood-roots; Roots that are described as pale worms earlier in the chapter. At the end of the aSoS chapter, Arya tells the Hound to go to hell, and Dondarrion says "he already has."
Wonderful, as always. I am no where near as familiar with the subject matter but there are several Thrones myths involving unique female not quite human beings. I believe the Iron Born have one, there is the Night's Queen, and the Amethyst Empress, the cat woman from the Far East. Not human moon goddess types but like Alien/mutant seeming with themes/powers related to their immediate environment...If that's something you want to ponder.
Stacie L thanks for saying so, this one was a little more personal so that means a lot. I honestly have considered expanding the premise to it's own book, which would exists outside of ASOIAF context. as someone who has grown up inside and outside of the religious worldview, I feel like I have a certain amount of experience and prospective to offer in regards to coming to terms with the way many of us were raised. This gets into the broader topic of how religion continues to evolve in modern society, and of the inherent tension between abstract, symbolic thinking and scientific, rational thinking. Joseph Campbell has so much to offer in this regard, so I am glad to point people in his direction. Anyway, cheers and see you around! P.S. you might try checking out "George R.R. Martin is Writing Modern Mythology," which kind of goes with this essay. That's available as a podcast or essay: lucifermeanslightbringer.com/methodology/
I appreciate you taking the the time to write such a thoughtful reply. Thank you. I am a comparative religion geek and I admire your analyses of these books. Aziz is also my fav deep thinker. You both write beautifully. I own everything J.C. wrote so I share your passion there. So fun to connect Tolkien, Campbell and Martin... Congrats on your videos! Your cool name is a great catch. I can imagine how much time your vids must require. Carry on and thank you!
For all the mentions to Morning Star/Evening Star, not one to the actual Evenstar of the story or to House Tarth in general, despite their sigil, the fact they're the former kings and actual lords of the ONE island from which the closest thing to a Azor Ahai figure in the Faith of the Seven comes from, Galladon of Morne and his sword Just Maid, nor to the heir of House Tarth who's literally just that (a "just maid") and is pretty good with morningstars...
My quick Google search said that cetus (sea monster) and ophiuchus (serpent bearer) are sometimes considered the 13th and 14th zodiac sign. And they are really close to the ecliptic as well. Sea dragon and dragon rider?! Connection to Orion? Seeing mythical astronomy everywhere now 😂
Thank you so much for this!! I have been trying to tell people about how the Bible and any other religious texts are STORIES. Metaphorical truth, rather than literal truth. I am not saying that worship is wrong, just that people should be aware that this is not word for word an account of what ACTUALLY happened.
Thank you for taking the time to put these wonderful podcasts together.
Second listen-watch through for me, caught so much more this time. I feel enlightened and educated. Thank you LML for all your hard work. I support your idea of making a stand alone book 1000%.
Thanks so much sanrixian, and thanks for joining our Patreon! I am have been thinking about this book more lately. I am sure I will write it at some point, and I really appreciate the encouragement.
This entire this was just amazing!! I cannot thank you enough for the time, energy and love that was brought into making these!! WOW, just WOW!!!
When you were talking about the Garden of Eden, I realised came to the realisation that Adam and Eve probably didn't need the snake to tempt them, God just saying to Adam and Eve, 'whatever you do don't do eat of this tree,' and he was basically just asking for trouble. Terry Pratchett said something to the effect that if you had a red button and a newly painted sign saying: 'Do not touch', the paint wouldn't even have time to get dry.
Wow. This is amazing. When you were speaking about the two potential swords, it made me think of the Japanese legend of Masamune and Murasame, two sword makers. Masamune made a sword whose name translates into "Tender Hands," and though it was incredibly sharp, it would never cut the deserving. Murasame's sword, 10,000 Cold Nights (I'm serious...unless my source is lying) would cut anything that went past it. Dawn would equate to the Masamune whereas Lightbringer would be Murasame, since if anything would pierce Nissa Nissa, it wouldn't be a sword that refused to cut the innocent..unless corrupted. Going along with your theory if Azor Ahai was the villain, it's possible a white sword became a black sword after that act. There's a Welsh myth called (fittingly) The Sword and it's about Dyrnwyn, the Sword of Rhyderch Hael (white hilt) that turns black when it spills innocent blood. I think Martin is drawing from these stories as well.
The Queen of Sevens okay, well that's really interesting. I've been looking for a precedent for a white sword turning black, either literally, or symbolically if the Bloodstone Emperor's black meteor sword represents a corrupt version of the older Dawn white sword technology. Very cool find! I'll have to look into that further.
Thanks for making such incredibly thought provoking podcast videos!
Oh why you're quite welcome :)
I think this might have been the video that blew/opened my mind the most. I dont even have anything meaningful to say except WOW.
right on, these are actually the ideas that were most powerful to me as well among all my first essays. Hence taking the name. Glad it was enlightening for you too :)
I just loved this, and need to take it in more than once, there is so much to unpack.
I've now completed this and feel very enlightened. I had to listen to a couple of them more than once, but it's only because the information is so rich and dense. I have to say that I find this compendium very compelling and convincing. Even the Tyrion Targaryen stuff - I enjoyed that one and the stories from Chinese legends. Thanks for all your hard work and content creation. :) And now, Sacred Order of Green Zombies!
You should have done this video as the first. Gives such a great setup for what you lay out in 1-3. I get that you waited because this one can be a bit more controversial, but the info in 6 makes 1-3 much more understandable. Great work!
I enjoyed that so much. I read the essay on your website first & really liked it.Your GOTS content is interesting & thoroughly done, but what I really tune into hear about is just the mythology & history of earth. I wish more Christians knew the origin story of their faith, its political/historical & mythological influences. This idea that it sprang fully formed as contemporary evangelism or that the Bible is somehow inerrant & was always in English & always interpreted the same way is ludicrous. Sigh. It's been a long time since I've been able to geek out on mythology like this. I haven't thought about Joseph Campbell in years...or Jung for that matter. Nobody to talk to about it :(
I think I'm going to look into whatever "patreon" is. Is that like being a PBS supporter or Kickstarter donator? Nevermind, I'll figure it out.♡
I'd talk to you!
Very good and well laid out information.
One little nitpick: the Catholic Church had very little actual influence on the establishment of biblical canon. If they were out to create an authoritarian system (which they were) they would have to go about it some other way (which they did). They exercised immense power over people by establishing themselves as the sole authority (in western Europe, that is) on spiritual contact with God.
In the region I am from Christianity appropriated all the pagan gods into Christian saints. They just took existing superstitions and renamed them. That is how they got the smallfolk. Then under pressure of smallfolk the lords had to convert. For those lords, who could read and write, and the aristocracy in general, the written word is for them. And the priests are somewhere in the middle. Or at least they used to be. The catholic church managed to misinterpret and change some things in translation. Was it just a clerical error? Honestly I doubt
Damn dude you seriously have the capability to write your own fantasy series one day I swear
It's interesting that you bring up Isaiah 14. I found it very similar to the chapter in aSoS where the Hound is put on "trial" by the brotherhood without banners; In the Bible passage, the king of Babylon goes to the underworld where he is taunted for his crimes, like the Hound is confronted with his crimes in a cave underground. The kings of the world are said to sit upon thrones, and tell Babylon that he will rest upon worms, while Dondarrion sits on a throne of weirwood-roots; Roots that are described as pale worms earlier in the chapter. At the end of the aSoS chapter, Arya tells the Hound to go to hell, and Dondarrion says "he already has."
I now consider myself thoroughly woke af. Thank you sir new patron incoming
Wonderful, as always. I am no where near as familiar with the subject matter but there are several Thrones myths involving unique female not quite human beings. I believe the Iron Born have one, there is the Night's Queen, and the Amethyst Empress, the cat woman from the Far East. Not human moon goddess types but like Alien/mutant seeming with themes/powers related to their immediate environment...If that's something you want to ponder.
this one is my fav so far
Stacie L thanks for saying so, this one was a little more personal so that means a lot. I honestly have considered expanding the premise to it's own book, which would exists outside of ASOIAF context. as someone who has grown up inside and outside of the religious worldview, I feel like I have a certain amount of experience and prospective to offer in regards to coming to terms with the way many of us were raised. This gets into the broader topic of how religion continues to evolve in modern society, and of the inherent tension between abstract, symbolic thinking and scientific, rational thinking. Joseph Campbell has so much to offer in this regard, so I am glad to point people in his direction. Anyway, cheers and see you around!
P.S. you might try checking out "George R.R. Martin is Writing Modern Mythology," which kind of goes with this essay. That's available as a podcast or essay:
lucifermeanslightbringer.com/methodology/
I appreciate you taking the the time to write such a thoughtful reply. Thank you. I am a comparative religion geek and I admire your analyses of these books. Aziz is also my fav deep thinker. You both write beautifully. I own everything J.C. wrote so I share your passion there. So fun to connect Tolkien, Campbell and Martin... Congrats on your videos! Your cool name is a great catch. I can imagine how much time your vids must require. Carry on and thank you!
For all the mentions to Morning Star/Evening Star, not one to the actual Evenstar of the story or to House Tarth in general, despite their sigil, the fact they're the former kings and actual lords of the ONE island from which the closest thing to a Azor Ahai figure in the Faith of the Seven comes from, Galladon of Morne and his sword Just Maid, nor to the heir of House Tarth who's literally just that (a "just maid") and is pretty good with morningstars...
Loved that little experiment at 09:31!
Never knew about the Corn King .. mind blown ..
Kevin Wells AH, then you will like the Sacred Order of Green Zombies series which I will be posting next!
Catharism and gnostic Christianity is pretty fascinating stuff. Imagine how different Christianity would be if other flavors weren't surpressed.
My quick Google search said that cetus (sea monster) and ophiuchus (serpent bearer) are sometimes considered the 13th and 14th zodiac sign. And they are really close to the ecliptic as well. Sea dragon and dragon rider?! Connection to Orion? Seeing mythical astronomy everywhere now 😂
Thank you so much for this!! I have been trying to tell people about how the Bible and any other religious texts are STORIES. Metaphorical truth, rather than literal truth. I am not saying that worship is wrong, just that people should be aware that this is not word for word an account of what ACTUALLY happened.
I've been playing Behaving Badly on loop all day and everytime it starts I expect to hear LML's intro.
What could be said of Mercury? ( It shares the same orbital movement closest to the sun, but not with the same brightness of Venus)
So white dragon = dawn, black dragon = lightbringer. Does green dragon = greenseers?
Ahh and now Casino Royale finally makes sense.....Vesper always struck me as an odd name
To fight the algorithm goods
Aaaaaaaand... this is why I'm an atheist.
Hm, my real name means sunlight. Maybe I could ask to be called Lucifer
That ending was a very eloquent way to say “Yahweh is a poser.” I approve.
VENUS LESSONS THE MORNING STAR LUCIFER