Since you're into symbology I found another thing I haven't seen anyone discuss, but I believe it's a metaphor. It's believed by many that Old Nan is Rohan Weber, who has been associated with spiders. They emphasize this by her knitting like a spider spins it's web, and the clicking of her needles. Her kin, is Hodor. Old Nan talks about the Others riding their Ice Spiders. Bran, a Stark who may have some relation to the Others rides Hodor. Hodor is, in a sense, an Ice Spider providing that Old Nan is who I think and Bran is someone Other related or will be an Other. It may be a stretch but with GRRM one has to look for all the bread crumbs.
Great work yet again. Beautiful catch with Vhagar's colouring - I had been trying to look for the ice symbolism in the Sunfyre/Vhagar vs Meleys battle a while ago, and here it is! I was just wondering what you thought of all the greenseer, I mean wildfire, activity at the Dragonpit - Jaehaerys I is cremated there by the pyromancers, Bloodraven commands the pyromancers to burn the corpses of the Great Spring Sickness making it look as though there were living dragons again and then there's the prostitute and her customer find one of Aerys'/Rossart's secret cache and makes like Aerion Brightflame and drinks it. Is it all a case of the naughty greenseers breaking the moon or is there something more going on? Also, out of curiosity, do you see Stannis and Mel's relationship as a complete temperature inversion of the NK and NQ? When you were reading out the "cold personality" descriptors of Visenya, I felt sure you were going to finish with "is this Stannis we're talking about?", not the Northerners. (I've just seen your Moons 4 tweet so I can try to wait patiently for this.)
I love how straight forward the symbolism is in this one. The two hills jumped out at me when I was reading The Sons of the Dragon. You fleshed this out pretty well. I guess we know why the Red Keep is red now.
Yeah, for the most part it is pretty tidy. I plan on diagnosing the various dragon battles Vhagar is involved in in the next two episodes, which will lend further credence to things. But as the for the two hills symbolism and the parallels between the Kg / Warrio's Sons and the Others, I like that they seem to lead to an important conclusion - NK and NQ created the Others. I like that it's not just Martin creating an interesting parallel for shits and giggles, but rather he's providing a way to make more educated guesses at the deep mysteries of the story.
Right, right, I remember noting the whole white shadow King's Guard thing a long while back, but I didn't really know what to do with it. I do wonder if the connection could go both ways implying not just that the Night's Queen created the first White Walkers, but that the first White Walkers were the King's Guard of the BSE/AA/whoever the hell the Night's King actually was. There is the off handed reference in the World of Ice and Fire about fanciful stories of certain hero's being in the King's Guard long before there was an actual King's Guard.
" Symeon Star-Eyes, Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, and other heroes have become fodder for septons and singers alike. Did such heroes once exist? It may be so. But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard-an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror-we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted."
I- “White ti-... towers...” I was uber into the podcast and then that; absolutely broke me for a minute. That was perfect. Thank you for not editing that out! 💜🤣 I always wondered if there was a connection between all the star, sun and moon symbology and religion. Aside from the obvious things, I mean more all the “hidden” texts. As you called it out “crystal, dome, marble” and so on. I honestly just thought, since I think and write abstractly, that it was just my brain going “OH LOOK THAT CONNECTS HERE AND ALIGNS WITH THAT!” 🙃 How much inspiration I have drawn from just little tidbits like that.
the more i listen to your stuff the more clear asoiaf seems. everything is connected to the lightbringer myth. your production is really good, keep on doin a fantastic job! #eventhoughidontlikehillary :D #oweyouabeer
Something I picked up on a long time ago that people yell at me for. As far as we can tell Jamie is the 13th Lord Commander of the KG. He would have been 16th but Rhaella's 3 were stricken from the record. So he's the 13th. The 13th LC of NW is the one that took the Other to bride. I'm not sure if you've ever noticed this. I can't listen to your videos at length as they are long and I don't have that chunk of time.
Jill Ayala hey that's pretty interesting! I'll check that out, I am going to write about Jaime here soon. As for time, don't you have a commute or chores to do? I usually listen to pods and audiobooks at those times
Lucifer means Lightbringer I have a very demanding 4 year old that doesn't allow me to process more than a few pieces of information at a time, so short videos work well for me.
@@jillonio I'm often at work myself when watching these so I always have to pause on a busy day and save the video in my watch later Playlist and luckily RUclips always saves my place so I always just pick it back up as soon asbi have free time again :)
I'm trying to decide whether or not to do another scripted episode next or a livestream QnA next. Will depend on that. I am worried all the questions people will ask after Moons 3 will be just the things I am going to explain in the next episode, so I might do one more scripted episode, then a live one. In that case, it will probably be 2 weeks before another pod.
I hate this, but I can’t stop imagining Visenya being like “I’m stuck on my dragon, help! Wait, what are you doing bro?” We need a reset. Jokes aside, I just found your page and I love it bro. Keep it up.
What if the Bloodstone Emperor/First Azor Ahai, was a Stark that married a Dayne. They had a child, she was Nissa Nissa but everything happened in the Night fort. The last hero was his child, that's why he had Dawn. He uncle was King I'm Winterfell and him and he's lineage died. Hence why the last hero inherited Winterfell. Maybe the sord was his but he gave it to his mother's family because they forge it.
Q&A. I have listened to all of your videos even your collaborations. I have a question. Do you think that the others or walkers are waiting possibly for the stars, moon and sun to line back up so that they may be picked up to go back to where they come from? I guess that is more sci-fi than fantasy. But I was thinking that would also be a reason to get to the God’s eye. Just a. Thought.
Hey Lesha. That's an eminently logical guess, actually. We get reference to a celestial alignment when Ygritte tells Jon the best time to steal a wife was when the red wanderer (Mars) was "in" the Moon Maiden (a specific constellation), so the concept has been introduced. My theory about this is that the Others simply cannot invade fully until the sun is hidden again - otherwise they have to hide during the day. I think there is foreshadowing that we are in for a return of the comet and another moon disaster, and this is what will trigger the new Long Night and the invasion of the Others and maybe the collapse of the Wall somewhere in the process. So, in that sense, they are waiting for the comet to return, which is similar to what you are suggesting. So we are on a similar wavelength here :)
It's exciting that there is more enjoyment to be wrung from our favorite books, which many of us have re-read so many times that we've lost count. The things Martin does with symbolism and plot echoes are really damn clever, and a lot of fun to try to follow.
Yeah, for sure. That and a million other things. We'll be getting to a "foreshadowing of the ice moon destruction" episode fairly shortly, have no fear
Question 1 : we have Leonids meteor shower from Leo constellation, will any catastrophic meteor showers come from the ice dragon constellation ? Question 2 : I only recently heard the theory Jon was born using a C-section from the sword Dawn. Born under a bloody star being the sword , what’s your opinion ? Question 3 : Would the the red comet be considered ice in space then fire in the atmosphere ? Have ever tried posting your videos on the Thrones amino app it has over 50,000 members.
I don’t know why, but the way you said Shiera reminded me of Ashara. And though the vowels are different, Ashara was from Starfall. She supposedly jumped from the cliff. Of course she connected to the stars through Daynes in general. But Shiera Ashara has some cling to it. So the start fell in Starfall. Also she fell into the sea, so she is kind of a sea star.. I don’t know where can we go from here. It’s just my associations upon listening.
Lucifer means Lightbringer right on you didn't miss much. All of the 2 moon/queen 1 sun/solar king symbolism in some of the architecture and actual locations is fantastic. Thanks for bringing it to light. Lys references may lead to some fun stuff too me thinks. Lastly, going back to the fiery/burnt hand symbolism Stannis did just that in the actual act of becoming his own lil shadow seeder. Davos strikes again! Have a glorious night amigo
This 5 minute, COMET based, space oddity [ link below ] starring Aiden Gillen (AKA Littlefinger) and Aisling Franciosi (Lyanna Stark!) as metaphysical Master and Apprentice, has nothing - and yet, perhaps everything - to do with LmL's signature theory. It's certainly all I could think about while watching. Probably just influenced by the presence of those GoT actors. And yet... It left me pondering if the Mythological Astronomy uncovered here might just as easily be read as GRRM's creation myth for ASoIaF. For that to be the case, the timescale the fictional theologies and oral histories present would have to be as bogus as any Creationist, dark-ages view of our own world. And why wouldn't it be, given the regressive feudal societies holding court in the books? I always figured that Tolkiens Lost Tales/Silmarillion would flow a little easier if the creation aspect was uncovered by reference en route of the various protagonists journeys. Illuminated by ongoing incident rather than info-dumped "in the beginning," as it were. Could this methodology be what we are seeing at work in ASoIaF? And isn't this, in a way, the main thrust of LmL's thesis? Allegory and mythological metaphor reinterpreted as literal historical fact? "Ambition : The Rosetta Mission" ruclips.net/video/32vlOgN_3QQ/видео.html
ASOIAF is surprisingly lacking creation myths that seem to be so abundant in our own world. Unless I am mistaken we never hear anything about the creation of men by any god, in a world so full of myth and legend you would expect many diverse creation myths. Sorry if a bit off topic.
GreenGirl Not off topic at all : ) I seem to recall the Dothraki had some kind of origin story. Thats about it though. GRRM has said he was inspired by Tolkien, so at first it's easy to assume he was referring to the whole dragons, castles, sword and sorcery thing. But LmL is definitely onto something with his decoding of all the pagan archetypes and Norse mythology hiding in the background of ASoIaF. Since those are the very things Tolkien himself was adapting into his own stories. Which is why an analogue of the creation myths of those ancient cultures was such a part of the landscape of Middle Earth. And why I fully expected GRRM to follow suit. So now, no matter how I read the legend of Azor Ahai, it just doesn't feel like the story of a once-living man, not even if the story has been retold so many times its lost its humanity and achieved mythic status. We've already seen GRRM's knack for repeated motif's and events from the distant past impacting on the present. History and legend replayed, archetypal figures prophesied to be reborn, all as underlying themes restated by virtue of circular narrative. Leading to the question: was the Long Night the original source of the mythology... or a re-enactment? Azor Ahai as the incarnation of some all powerful creator, a demi- god among men, who is "reborn" when he is most needed. Now we're getting somewhere. Every culture has it's own version, every religion, every fantasy or sc-fi saga, these days has it's "chosen one." Does the ASoIaF analogue really begin and end 8000 years ago with the Long Night? Sorry to harp on! Did you check out the link? "It's a good one". Particularly like the moment when, as she "resets", the eyes of Lyanna - sorry, I mean the Apprentice - change colour to green: seeing is believing I suppose ; )
Yes , i did watch the video, very interesting, like Asoiaf, Star Wars crossover. The Dothraki say they were born from the mother of mountains and the iron born priest say the drowned god made them in his image but that is it i believe. So if Azor Ahai was never a man do you think the entire legend comes from the astronomical event and there was no real parallel? light bringer was never a real sword and nisa nisa really was the moon and not ever a person at all? Begs the question, is time linear or circular? One could argue there have been two long nights the one we hear about in westeros and also the one that ended the Empire of the Dawn. Don't forget the influence from the Mabinogion or Welsh mythology too !
idk if you read comics, or are familiar with the x-men and the phoenix force. Melisandre describes the power of R'hllor inside her almost exactly the way the phoenix force is described inside of Jean Grey. I know GRRM is a comic book fan, i doubt it is a coincidence. Sorry to talk fire on an ice video
GreenGirl "Talking ice on a fire video"! I like it ; ) Yes, the breaking of the Arm of Dorne as another close encounter with a comet - Lightbringer, tempered in water, causing a tsunami - all exactly as decoded and described by LmL (sort of). Possibly yet another during an eclipse, as the "Lion of Night" ate the sun. The third, all fire and blood, the destruction of the "second moon" that caused the Long Night and the volcanic impactic crater referred to as the Fourteen Flames. Also known as Valyria, birthplace of dragons. So far, so LmL (again, sort of. He considers all three events as occuring at one and the same time...I think! Based on the legend of Azor Ahai, I go for great leaps of geological time between each one). What all these events have in common is they are attributed to this "Azor Ahai." I just don't buy him as a literal historical figure (I'm not sure we're meant to), but as the archetypal, all-powerful figure it's easy to blame for sudden and devastating acts of - well - God. It might seem heresy here on this channel, but I wonder if there ever was a second moon, you know. Real-world (real-universe?) comets are thought to perturb the orbit of asteroids in the Kuiper Belt and even the Oort Cloud, if the comet is extra-solar in origin. Some even consider the Oort Cloud to be the birthplace of ALL comets, that region of rocks and ice that encapsulates our entire solar system. Occasional bumps and collisions causing lumps of debris, from the beginning of things, to drop out of their orbit and into the gravitational reach of our sun, planets and moons. To pass by as spectacular "comets" or else completely unseen and undetected, finding their own elliptical orbits, passing by again and again over the millenia. Sorry if this reads like a lecture, I'm sure you know all this. I mention it only because ancient cultures had little or no astronomical knowledge on which to base their understanding of comets, asteroid impacts, and meteor showers. They might wonder (in the ASOIAF universe) from where these rocks from the sky could have come? With the only astronomical bodies visible to the ancients being a single moon and a regularly passing comet, its easy to see how they might connect the two. For them to think, 'these falling rocks once lived up there, in the sky, like the moon. Maybe they were once a moon themselves, these meteors, once part of a moon that cracked or was shattered...' Add the "act of God" viewpoint and we have astronomy and mythology combined. Handed down as an idea in the form of a story, concepts named and later anthropomorphized as characters. Characters confused as literal figures of history and legend. Legends like Azor Ahai. Apologies again for banging on! In answer to your question, no, I don't believe He, or his moon-bride Nissa Nissa, were ever real living people. And as I say, I don't believe GRRM ever intended us to. Glad you liked the linked video : )
I'm writing this comment halfway thru, so it might come up later, but Id hate to forget. Ser Mandon (Other) tried to kill Tyrion (Solar) by slashing him in the face. Any thoughts?
Is there a chance that Daenerys is Rhaenys? If Ellia is the fire moon queen and Lyana the Icy moon queen, why not have danny be Ellia's daughter? Also, they names are really close, so there's that...
I don't think so, because Rhaenys was a little older than baby Aegon and Varys said people recognized her corpse. A baby with a mashed head would have been much easier to mistake. (god what a horrible sentence to write)
you HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE TIMELINE GOES "LONG NIGHT"->"CREATION OF THE WALL"->"13TH LORD COMMANDER". this is not to say that the "nights queen" and the 13th lord commander didn't help to swell the ranks of the "others" but they DID NOT birth the others that brought the long night, the long night happened BEFORE this legend
You are correct that that is the commonly accepted timeline. However, given that the timeline is based on 8,000 year-old legend, we are invited to question it. I am doing just that, and providing evidence for why I think it makes sense to do so. After all, why would NK be "sacrificing to the Others" shortly after they were defeated?
Thats how i feel about Daenerys as the Dayne Heir(ess). Its very obvious once you see it hahaha asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/149109-garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/ Check this out Lml.
TheAlaskansandman the Andals are actually known for blond hair and blue eyes, so you need to fix that. But how does any of that have to do with Daenerys and House Dayne?
Well you brought up the crystal blades of the Warrior's son's as a nod to the Others and it seeming so obvious now that you've seen it. I was saying that's how i feel about Dany being the Dayne Heiress. The other is a link to my theory i wanted you to check out but your not on the forums much so i thought youd likely respond here the fastest. As far as Andals being blonde. If so, then why do the Hoares get listed as having black hair due to the Andal taint? The histories are messed up. The ProtoValyrian-Empire of the Dawn people were the first men and blondes. The Andals were brunettes. Robin Arryn is even a brunette. My over all theory i wanted you to check out though covers some of this and also will give you an idea maybe to how it's tied to Dany, House Danye, and the current narrative.
Indeed. Yet Daenerys is LmL's Nissa Nissa Moon figure. She is the fertility god, fought over by her Other and Fire brothers. She must full fill the role of Nissa Nissa and be sacrificed to bring back the Dawn. She is the sword of the Morning, her dragon's prove it.
I read the theory, but I didn't see how it relates to Dany and the Daynes. The Andals are definitely fair-haired, by and large. The evidence is all throughout TWOIAF. I don't know how that impacts your argument but the Hoares were not pure Andal.
Fell asleep to this last night and had some WILD ass dreams
hahahaha
You Tube just asked me to grade this video. I answered with the choice saying it is one of the best.
haha very kind of you sir :)
Was this one of your fav mythical astronomy episodes? I've had a couple people say so
They are all good and I have a crappy memory and don't really have a favorite of your work yet.
Since you're into symbology I found another thing I haven't seen anyone discuss, but I believe it's a metaphor.
It's believed by many that Old Nan is Rohan Weber, who has been associated with spiders. They emphasize this by her knitting like a spider spins it's web, and the clicking of her needles.
Her kin, is Hodor.
Old Nan talks about the Others riding their Ice Spiders.
Bran, a Stark who may have some relation to the Others rides Hodor. Hodor is, in a sense, an Ice Spider providing that Old Nan is who I think and Bran is someone Other related or will be an Other.
It may be a stretch but with GRRM one has to look for all the bread crumbs.
Such a great series I can’t believe I just found it! I’ll be bingeing your channel it seems. Thanks for the great content! 🤗
Loving your stuff LML, after about 15 hours of listening starting to get it!
Great work yet again.
Beautiful catch with Vhagar's colouring - I had been trying to look for the ice symbolism in the Sunfyre/Vhagar vs Meleys battle a while ago, and here it is!
I was just wondering what you thought of all the greenseer, I mean wildfire, activity at the Dragonpit - Jaehaerys I is cremated there by the pyromancers, Bloodraven commands the pyromancers to burn the corpses of the Great Spring Sickness making it look as though there were living dragons again and then there's the prostitute and her customer find one of Aerys'/Rossart's secret cache and makes like Aerion Brightflame and drinks it. Is it all a case of the naughty greenseers breaking the moon or is there something more going on?
Also, out of curiosity, do you see Stannis and Mel's relationship as a complete temperature inversion of the NK and NQ? When you were reading out the "cold personality" descriptors of Visenya, I felt sure you were going to finish with "is this Stannis we're talking about?", not the Northerners. (I've just seen your Moons 4 tweet so I can try to wait patiently for this.)
I love how straight forward the symbolism is in this one. The two hills jumped out at me when I was reading The Sons of the Dragon. You fleshed this out pretty well. I guess we know why the Red Keep is red now.
Yeah, for the most part it is pretty tidy. I plan on diagnosing the various dragon battles Vhagar is involved in in the next two episodes, which will lend further credence to things. But as the for the two hills symbolism and the parallels between the Kg / Warrio's Sons and the Others, I like that they seem to lead to an important conclusion - NK and NQ created the Others. I like that it's not just Martin creating an interesting parallel for shits and giggles, but rather he's providing a way to make more educated guesses at the deep mysteries of the story.
Right, right, I remember noting the whole white shadow King's Guard thing a long while back, but I didn't really know what to do with it. I do wonder if the connection could go both ways implying not just that the Night's Queen created the first White Walkers, but that the first White Walkers were the King's Guard of the BSE/AA/whoever the hell the Night's King actually was. There is the off handed reference in the World of Ice and Fire about fanciful stories of certain hero's being in the King's Guard long before there was an actual King's Guard.
" Symeon Star-Eyes, Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, and other heroes have become fodder for septons and singers alike. Did such heroes once exist? It may be so. But when the singers number Serwyn of the Mirror Shield as one of the Kingsguard-an institution that was only formed during the reign of Aegon the Conqueror-we can see why it is that few of these tales can ever be trusted."
Thanks,always insightful and I get swallowed up. Brilliant.
I- “White ti-... towers...” I was uber into the podcast and then that; absolutely broke me for a minute. That was perfect. Thank you for not editing that out! 💜🤣
I always wondered if there was a connection between all the star, sun and moon symbology and religion. Aside from the obvious things, I mean more all the “hidden” texts. As you called it out “crystal, dome, marble” and so on. I honestly just thought, since I think and write abstractly, that it was just my brain going “OH LOOK THAT CONNECTS HERE AND ALIGNS WITH THAT!” 🙃 How much inspiration I have drawn from just little tidbits like that.
the more i listen to your stuff the more clear asoiaf seems. everything is connected to the lightbringer myth. your production is really good, keep on doin a fantastic job! #eventhoughidontlikehillary :D #oweyouabeer
Loving these older series bro.....
Something I picked up on a long time ago that people yell at me for.
As far as we can tell Jamie is the 13th Lord Commander of the KG. He would have been 16th but Rhaella's 3 were stricken from the record. So he's the 13th.
The 13th LC of NW is the one that took the Other to bride.
I'm not sure if you've ever noticed this. I can't listen to your videos at length as they are long and I don't have that chunk of time.
Jill Ayala hey that's pretty interesting! I'll check that out, I am going to write about Jaime here soon.
As for time, don't you have a commute or chores to do? I usually listen to pods and audiobooks at those times
gonna mention this one on the livestream tomorrow :)
Lucifer means Lightbringer I have a very demanding 4 year old that doesn't allow me to process more than a few pieces of information at a time, so short videos work well for me.
Jill Ayala or you just split long videos up into short bursts ?
@@jillonio I'm often at work myself when watching these so I always have to pause on a busy day and save the video in my watch later Playlist and luckily RUclips always saves my place so I always just pick it back up as soon asbi have free time again :)
I love your channel it's like a chill new kind of poetry
Another kick ass video. Always keeping me stoked!
Ice-cream, you scream, we all scream for ice-cream... as usual fantastic podcast! How long to the next?
I'm trying to decide whether or not to do another scripted episode next or a livestream QnA next. Will depend on that. I am worried all the questions people will ask after Moons 3 will be just the things I am going to explain in the next episode, so I might do one more scripted episode, then a live one. In that case, it will probably be 2 weeks before another pod.
Lucifer means Lightbringer make good sense! It is good..not too much waiting then! ❤️
Oh, thank christ. I needed me some MAOIAF today
Ian Conway TFW you find a distant friend commenting on an obscure video on RUclips
How does anyone down vote this. #laterhaters
I hate this, but I can’t stop imagining Visenya being like “I’m stuck on my dragon, help! Wait, what are you doing bro?” We need a reset.
Jokes aside, I just found your page and I love it bro. Keep it up.
What if the Bloodstone Emperor/First Azor Ahai, was a Stark that married a Dayne. They had a child, she was Nissa Nissa but everything happened in the Night fort. The last hero was his child, that's why he had Dawn. He uncle was King I'm Winterfell and him and he's lineage died. Hence why the last hero inherited Winterfell. Maybe the sord was his but he gave it to his mother's family because they forge it.
Sort of cute Visenya story but also pretty sinister too 😂
Yo lml, I'm feeling the shield you made for this with the crossed swords and other scykle things (spelled wrong I know). Any ways well done
oh nice yeah that's my old logo, I made it up of symbolism as you can see, basically all the moon meteor symbols
Rock and Roll Baby!
Q&A. I have listened to all of your videos even your collaborations. I have a question. Do you think that the others or walkers are waiting possibly for the stars, moon and sun to line back up so that they may be picked up to go back to where they come from? I guess that is more sci-fi than fantasy. But I was thinking that would also be a reason to get to the God’s eye. Just a. Thought.
Hey Lesha. That's an eminently logical guess, actually. We get reference to a celestial alignment when Ygritte tells Jon the best time to steal a wife was when the red wanderer (Mars) was "in" the Moon Maiden (a specific constellation), so the concept has been introduced. My theory about this is that the Others simply cannot invade fully until the sun is hidden again - otherwise they have to hide during the day. I think there is foreshadowing that we are in for a return of the comet and another moon disaster, and this is what will trigger the new Long Night and the invasion of the Others and maybe the collapse of the Wall somewhere in the process. So, in that sense, they are waiting for the comet to return, which is similar to what you are suggesting. So we are on a similar wavelength here :)
So f*cking readyyyyy!
Love the way you put things together LML! Thanks for sharing your theories.
It's exciting that there is more enjoyment to be wrung from our favorite books, which many of us have re-read so many times that we've lost count. The things Martin does with symbolism and plot echoes are really damn clever, and a lot of fun to try to follow.
I wonder if the sept of Baelor is burned down with wildfire, as in the show, does this possibly foreshadow the destruction of the ice moon?
Yeah, for sure. That and a million other things. We'll be getting to a "foreshadowing of the ice moon destruction" episode fairly shortly, have no fear
Lucifer means Lightbringer just finished my second listen through and I have to say I'm really enjoying this series.
Three thumbs up.
Question 1 : we have Leonids meteor shower from Leo constellation, will any catastrophic meteor showers come from the ice dragon constellation ?
Question 2 : I only recently heard the theory Jon was born using a C-section from the sword Dawn. Born under a bloody star being the sword , what’s your opinion ?
Question 3 : Would the the red comet be considered ice in space then fire in the atmosphere ?
Have ever tried posting your videos on the Thrones amino app it has over 50,000 members.
"Ah, the Dornish."
This was a great essay right here. Love the astronomy in this one
Rewatch binge 🎉
Let's-a go!!
I have nothing to add to the conversation but I enjoy listening to your podcasts.
As far as kings w/ lunar and solar queens . What about Jon with Igritte and Dany? Pardon if you mentioned this
Jon is a solar hidden as a lunar. Igritte is a solar dispute where she comes from and visa versa with Dany.
Brilliant!
I don’t know why, but the way you said Shiera reminded me of Ashara. And though the vowels are different, Ashara was from Starfall. She supposedly jumped from the cliff. Of course she connected to the stars through Daynes in general. But Shiera Ashara has some cling to it. So the start fell in Starfall. Also she fell into the sea, so she is kind of a sea star.. I don’t know where can we go from here. It’s just my associations upon listening.
Jupiter and Venus convergence at dawn on Monday 11/13. Look to the east. Neat!
Ah. It was totally clouded over here in Cali. Thanks for the heads up tho!
Lucifer means Lightbringer right on you didn't miss much.
All of the 2 moon/queen 1 sun/solar king symbolism in some of the architecture and actual locations is fantastic. Thanks for bringing it to light.
Lys references may lead to some fun stuff too me thinks.
Lastly, going back to the fiery/burnt hand symbolism Stannis did just that in the actual act of becoming his own lil shadow seeder. Davos strikes again!
Have a glorious night amigo
Brian Taylor 11/13 is my birthday. Last year 11/13 was the super moon. It’s a mystical moment ! 🔮☄️🌖
Steph Snow Glorious! Happy belated m'dear!
This 5 minute, COMET based, space oddity [ link below ] starring Aiden Gillen (AKA Littlefinger) and Aisling Franciosi (Lyanna Stark!) as metaphysical Master and Apprentice, has nothing - and yet, perhaps everything - to do with LmL's signature theory. It's certainly all I could think about while watching. Probably just influenced by the presence of those GoT actors. And yet...
It left me pondering if the Mythological Astronomy uncovered here might just as easily be read as GRRM's creation myth for ASoIaF. For that to be the case, the timescale the fictional theologies and oral histories present would have to be as bogus as any Creationist, dark-ages view of our own world.
And why wouldn't it be, given the regressive feudal societies holding court in the books?
I always figured that Tolkiens Lost Tales/Silmarillion would flow a little easier if the creation aspect was uncovered by reference en route of the various protagonists journeys. Illuminated by ongoing incident rather than info-dumped "in the beginning," as it were. Could this methodology be what we are seeing at work in ASoIaF? And isn't this, in a way, the main thrust of LmL's thesis? Allegory and mythological metaphor reinterpreted as literal historical fact?
"Ambition : The Rosetta Mission"
ruclips.net/video/32vlOgN_3QQ/видео.html
ASOIAF is surprisingly lacking creation myths that seem to be so abundant in our own world. Unless I am mistaken we never hear anything about the creation of men by any god, in a world so full of myth and legend you would expect many diverse creation myths. Sorry if a bit off topic.
GreenGirl Not off topic at all : ) I seem to recall the Dothraki had some kind of origin story. Thats about it though. GRRM has said he was inspired by Tolkien, so at first it's easy to assume he was referring to the whole dragons, castles, sword and sorcery thing. But LmL is definitely onto something with his decoding of all the pagan archetypes and Norse mythology hiding in the background of ASoIaF. Since those are the very things Tolkien himself was adapting into his own stories.
Which is why an analogue of the creation myths of those ancient cultures was such a part of the landscape of Middle Earth. And why I fully expected GRRM to follow suit. So now, no matter how I read the legend of Azor Ahai, it just doesn't feel like the story of a once-living man, not even if the story has been retold so many times its lost its humanity and achieved mythic status.
We've already seen GRRM's knack for repeated motif's and events from the distant past impacting on the present. History and legend replayed, archetypal figures prophesied to be reborn, all as underlying themes restated by virtue of circular narrative. Leading to the question: was the Long Night the original source of the mythology... or a re-enactment?
Azor Ahai as the incarnation of some all powerful creator, a demi- god among men, who is "reborn" when he is most needed. Now we're getting somewhere. Every culture has it's own version, every religion, every fantasy or sc-fi saga, these days has it's "chosen one." Does the ASoIaF analogue really begin and end 8000 years ago with the Long Night?
Sorry to harp on! Did you check out the link? "It's a good one". Particularly like the moment when, as she "resets", the eyes of Lyanna - sorry, I mean the Apprentice - change colour to green: seeing is believing I suppose ; )
Yes , i did watch the video, very interesting, like Asoiaf, Star Wars crossover. The Dothraki say they were born from the mother of mountains and the iron born priest say the drowned god made them in his image but that is it i believe. So if Azor Ahai was never a man do you think the entire legend comes from the astronomical event and there was no real parallel? light bringer was never a real sword and nisa nisa really was the moon and not ever a person at all? Begs the question, is time linear or circular? One could argue there have been two long nights the one we hear about in westeros and also the one that ended the Empire of the Dawn. Don't forget the influence from the Mabinogion or Welsh mythology too !
idk if you read comics, or are familiar with the x-men and the phoenix force. Melisandre describes the power of R'hllor inside her almost exactly the way the phoenix force is described inside of Jean Grey. I know GRRM is a comic book fan, i doubt it is a coincidence. Sorry to talk fire on an ice video
GreenGirl "Talking ice on a fire video"! I like it ; )
Yes, the breaking of the Arm of Dorne as another close encounter with a comet - Lightbringer, tempered in water, causing a tsunami - all exactly as decoded and described by LmL (sort of). Possibly yet another during an eclipse, as the "Lion of Night" ate the sun. The third, all fire and blood, the destruction of the "second moon" that caused the Long Night and the volcanic impactic crater referred to as the Fourteen Flames. Also known as Valyria, birthplace of dragons.
So far, so LmL (again, sort of. He considers all three events as occuring at one and the same time...I think! Based on the legend of Azor Ahai, I go for great leaps of geological time between each one). What all these events have in common is they are attributed to this "Azor Ahai." I just don't buy him as a literal historical figure (I'm not sure we're meant to), but as the archetypal, all-powerful figure it's easy to blame for sudden and devastating acts of - well - God.
It might seem heresy here on this channel, but I wonder if there ever was a second moon, you know. Real-world (real-universe?) comets are thought to perturb the orbit of asteroids in the Kuiper Belt and even the Oort Cloud, if the comet is extra-solar in origin. Some even consider the Oort Cloud to be the birthplace of ALL comets, that region of rocks and ice that encapsulates our entire solar system. Occasional bumps and collisions causing lumps of debris, from the beginning of things, to drop out of their orbit and into the gravitational reach of our sun, planets and moons. To pass by as spectacular "comets" or else completely unseen and undetected, finding their own elliptical orbits, passing by again and again over the millenia.
Sorry if this reads like a lecture, I'm sure you know all this. I mention it only because ancient cultures had little or no astronomical knowledge on which to base their understanding of comets, asteroid impacts, and meteor showers. They might wonder (in the ASOIAF universe) from where these rocks from the sky could have come? With the only astronomical bodies visible to the ancients being a single moon and a regularly passing comet, its easy to see how they might connect the two. For them to think, 'these falling rocks once lived up there, in the sky, like the moon. Maybe they were once a moon themselves, these meteors, once part of a moon that cracked or was shattered...'
Add the "act of God" viewpoint and we have astronomy and mythology combined. Handed down as an idea in the form of a story, concepts named and later anthropomorphized as characters. Characters confused as literal figures of history and legend. Legends like Azor Ahai.
Apologies again for banging on! In answer to your question, no, I don't believe He, or his moon-bride Nissa Nissa, were ever real living people. And as I say, I don't believe GRRM ever intended us to. Glad you liked the linked video : )
I'm writing this comment halfway thru, so it might come up later, but Id hate to forget. Ser Mandon (Other) tried to kill Tyrion (Solar) by slashing him in the face. Any thoughts?
gimme.that.john.walsh.
Best part 6:30 :)
dork
hahaha
if it's a blue priestess she should have white blood, or vice versa
Caverns of Dragonglass
Is there a chance that Daenerys is Rhaenys? If Ellia is the fire moon queen and Lyana the Icy moon queen, why not have danny be Ellia's daughter? Also, they names are really close, so there's that...
I don't think so, because Rhaenys was a little older than baby Aegon and Varys said people recognized her corpse. A baby with a mashed head would have been much easier to mistake. (god what a horrible sentence to write)
1:10:19
you HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE TIMELINE GOES "LONG NIGHT"->"CREATION OF THE WALL"->"13TH LORD COMMANDER". this is not to say that the "nights queen" and the 13th lord commander didn't help to swell the ranks of the "others" but they DID NOT birth the others that brought the long night, the long night happened BEFORE this legend
You are correct that that is the commonly accepted timeline. However, given that the timeline is based on 8,000 year-old legend, we are invited to question it. I am doing just that, and providing evidence for why I think it makes sense to do so. After all, why would NK be "sacrificing to the Others" shortly after they were defeated?
Thats how i feel about Daenerys as the Dayne Heir(ess). Its very obvious once you see it hahaha asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/149109-garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/ Check this out Lml.
TheAlaskansandman the Andals are actually known for blond hair and blue eyes, so you need to fix that. But how does any of that have to do with Daenerys and House Dayne?
ps in Daenerys's family tree she does have Dayne blood in her. Aegon the V (unlikely) father was married a to Dayne.
Well you brought up the crystal blades of the Warrior's son's as a nod to the Others and it seeming so obvious now that you've seen it. I was saying that's how i feel about Dany being the Dayne Heiress. The other is a link to my theory i wanted you to check out but your not on the forums much so i thought youd likely respond here the fastest. As far as Andals being blonde. If so, then why do the Hoares get listed as having black hair due to the Andal taint? The histories are messed up. The ProtoValyrian-Empire of the Dawn people were the first men and blondes. The Andals were brunettes. Robin Arryn is even a brunette. My over all theory i wanted you to check out though covers some of this and also will give you an idea maybe to how it's tied to Dany, House Danye, and the current narrative.
Indeed. Yet Daenerys is LmL's Nissa Nissa Moon figure. She is the fertility god, fought over by her Other and Fire brothers. She must full fill the role of Nissa Nissa and be sacrificed to bring back the Dawn. She is the sword of the Morning, her dragon's prove it.
I read the theory, but I didn't see how it relates to Dany and the Daynes.
The Andals are definitely fair-haired, by and large. The evidence is all throughout TWOIAF. I don't know how that impacts your argument but the Hoares were not pure Andal.