How MARVEL Ruined Wonder Woman
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
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Wonder Woman has a rich history at DC Comics, but that history was ruined by pressure from Marvel Comics to take the Amazon warrior princess and give Diana Prince a 1960s mod fashion makeover and had her do karate. Yeah, it was a weird and bizarre time in Wonder Woman's history...
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-------SOURCES-------
Wonder Woman Unbound: The Curious History of the World's Most Famous Heroine
goo.gl/2N8a5v
A Succinct History of the Mod Era Wonder Woman
www.writeups.or...
Obligatory Brian Cronin article
www.cbr.com/aba...
i gotta say, as a female comics fan it often feels like there aren't many socially aware men in the fanbase/industry and it makes me so happy to see that, actually, you (and many others) are! great video, looking forward to coming ones!
If I can be honest, early on I would never have tackled this kind of video to the degree I did here. I was and still am a little nervous about speaking on topics like this because I don't have the perspective of a woman in society today. But thankfully we've got some truly amazing women on the NerdSync team who look over scripts like this to make sure I don't say anything ignorant, which is a HUGE relief to my anxiety. As is this comment. I hope to be presenting more topics like this in the future, starting with the next video. Thanks!
pyeseas I agree. :)
pyeseas i agree
pyeseas I hate feminists.
pyeseas Hi I'm a Comic FAN
*"I don't even like Women."*
*-Wonder Woman*
O...okay?
Isn’t Wonder Woman bi?
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 yes. And even likes women more
@@nashvilletennessee4391 I don't think so
@@ProjektTaku she is an amazon....being a lesbian is pretty much expected...
Hol' up...are you saying that *DC, by trying to mimic Marvel's success, ended up ruining their characters?*
History really does repeat itself, doesn't it?
Galimeer5
Now that DC has had more time to give some good material to their heroes, I think they’re cleaning up their act movie wise.
THOSE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!!!!!!
Ironically, the DC films that people tend to say are "closest" to Marvel films have been their best in the DCEU. Not great, but better than the dull edge of the BVS and Man of Steel
I mean it's no surprise really. Just look at Disney and whoever there rival is at any given moment. Each company trues and fails to ape the others success. Back in the W.B er it was animated musicals, now in the Universal era it's theme park expansions and Y.A novels (among others this is just what comes to mind at the moment).
@@dragon1130 I think that depends on mostly them failing to understand why the other guy's formula works while yours doesn't. You see that a lot.
I can't believe this Diana girl got her own movie before the main man I-Ching. What the hell DC?
Exactly! Can we PLEASE get that I-Ching solo movie everyone has been wanting for decades???
Can I-Ching's first movie be a gritty reboot ?
see "Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins"
Karim The DCEU is still in its beginning phase.Later down the line,we'll probably get movies of characters not as popular as the Justice league such as Lobo,JLD,&Legion of Superheroes
Wonder Woman first appeared in All American comics in 1941, while I-Ching not until Wonder Woman #180, 1968.
it just occured to me that Wonderwoman's motivation for going "Mod" works as an alagory for the comic.
Steve/female fans already liked her, but she was worried that she might lose them. Not has, not will, not is, might. MIGHT lose them, So, to make sure she never loses someone who already liked her the way she was, she changed EVERYTHING.
Definitely I-Ching was a weird misdirection of how iconic "WONDER WOMAN" is.....but! During this era "BRUCE LEE" and tons of martial arts films changed everything. Every kid wanted to be a kung fu master. Sums up the energy of the time, same as mod clothing.
And Emma Peel from TV's Avengers, who herself was something like a female British Bond.
7:57 Ah, but Batman and Green Arrow do have superpowers, the power of infinite money.
Braden Chittick I'm fairly certain that both of those characters have had "losing/being cheated out of their fortunes" as plot devices more than once.
There's also the fact that Diana had been fighting for her whole life with god-like power and had suddenly become mortal. She probably didn't know her limits and if she'd gotten into a fight would likely have gotten killed. Bruce and Oli had trained for years to be at their peak and know exactly what they were capable of.
And Batman's a genius with more vehicles, gadgets, and weaponry than a person can keep track of.
Lol
At one time Green Arrow had super powers
I see what the writers were trying to do with her at the time but instead of turning her into karate barbie they could've introduced an ark where she had to deal with a problem as her alter ego.
She actually reminds me of Rarity from My Little Pony. An independent business owner whose day job focuses on their passion for fashion while fighting crime on the side. It's amazing how Hasbro took the same concept and handled it much better.
I agree, by the way. Taking an entire arc for her to adjust to the changes and settle into her new role would have been really helpful.
What if I told you that you can like Marvel and DC at same time
(gasp) Are you insane?!
MK ULTRA SOLDIER II Probably I am
Mega Comics You Madman.
(gasp) Head explodes
blasphemy
What would've been better: Bring down a literal goddess comic book figure down to a benign human being for the sake of being "hip" or introduce a new heroine altogether that represents the more grounded ambitions DC wanted at that time?
Diana sacrificing everything about herself for the sake of her boyfriend including what and who she is as Wonder Woman? Yeah, that's just not good. NOT GOOD.
John Choi if she’d used the magic sphere she would have realised it was a waste of time, because Steve Trevor is soon killed off.
Pretty much WW1984
Not good if is wonder woman, but is good for spiderman who give up being spiderman to work and have time to hang out with girls xd
I know this comment’s pretty old but, I really dont understand how thats bad? Superheroes never had any issues sacrificing themselves for the people they love, how come its bad when its a she instead?
Superman 2 did the same thing to Superman although for a shorter period of time.
*Couple of things:
1) I accidentally did a 1-minute live stream right before this on RUclips, but it was meant to go on Twitter @NerdSync. If you want to watch our pre-party live streams, that's where you can find us!
2) This video is incredibly late, which is just about par for the course for us. We're working with new editors, so bear with us as we work out the kinks.
3) I love you. Eat a donut today. You deserve it.
NerdSync If you give some I will sertainly. But will you, Scott? Will you??????????
NerdSync I love your channel, thank you
John Lennon We all love you too, bud
FakeNerdScout who is this?
Go home your drunk
I don't see your problem with what Batman said. He specifically said that she could be part of the League whenever she wanted.
she said she was out of place because she doesnt have any super power............ehem batman ehem
It's the idea that she left the team solely because she didn't have powers, and neither he nor Green Arrow saw a problem with that logic. They just let her leave believing that she was right. That one does, in fact, need superpowers to be on the team.
NerdSync if anything, Wonder Woman is the problematic one in that scene, she knows there are multiple people on the Justice League without powers. Batman shouldn't have to explain that to her, she's the idiot/asshole, not Batman or Green Arrow.
Thing is that without her powers she had to learn Kung Fu to become strong again. Batman and Arrow were already competent fighters without superpowers.
In fairness, Arrow and Batman aren't just regular people who walked in and decided to fight crime. They devoted YEARS to training and have near limitless gadgets and technology on their side. I was bothered a little bit by the eagerness to drop her seeing as the Justice League is like a family in a lot of ways, and I would have thought they would have tried to find some way to keep her on the team, but she almost surely would have ultimately proved to be a liability even after learning kung fu.
Wait...so Steve Trevor is like "I love Wonder Woman, but my friend Diana Prince is starting to look pretty good too" and Diana's immediate reaction is "Oh no, now I have to change who I am" instead of the obvious "Hey, Steve...guess what 🤗"
Like, am I crazy? Is this some kind of weird female psychological thing?
Galimeer5 No, it’s a men writing limiting roles for women thing.
Men writing women be like
Writers room: “Women always be shopping, right? I HAVE AN IDEA!”
😂
1900s: comic books are bad for kids
2000s: movies are bad for kids
2010s: video games are bad for kids
Why just why
This comment is so true
2020s: outside is bad for kids!
@@xavierramirez1911 Well it's a little risky at the moment.
You got the years wrong, but the overall sentiment right. Movies were said to be bad, but gained acceptance quicker than comics. TV was said to rot your brain pretty much right after it released, same with computers. Heck people used to say you would ruin your eyes from reading books too much. Video games were portrayed as bad pretty quickly after their debut too.
Diana training under a blind martial artist...Did They rip-off Daredevil?
I had that same thought, haha.
He even looks kind of like Stick.
I ching came first or were you joking?
I Ching actually appeared 13 years before Stick, if you can believe that.
I see!
So did wonder woman just forget her Amazon training? She had to have been taught how to fight back before she was Wonder Woman. or did they take that with her tools too?
Yeah that was a HUGE hole, like she lost her powers, not her memories right?
You got some snazzy music there, Scott.
Thanks! Tried to make it fit the theme of the video.
I think it's groovy...
DC fans " DC made a fucking huge mistake let's blame Marvel "
A R lol so true!!!
lmfao
They call it Marvelized, yet it was DC who started it. And even right now, all the SJW crap started with the Batgirl reboot.
Ikr! It's stupid!
I don’t know why they are trying to put some of the blame on marvel.... they had nothing to do with there storyline.... marvel was different because they knew what they were doing “we all can’t have a stab lee working with us” DC should have just came with a better approach and storyline
7:39 - I can only imagine that Green Arrow and Batman were giving her death glares for that little speech.
Edit: Also, why the hell did Wonder Woman need to learn kung fu? She's been raised from birth to be a master of several weapon styles, and she's been fighting hand to hand combat for decades before this point!
Kung Fu and Karate were popular then and they were to stupid to just have a different character do that.
Something that I feel you kind of glossed over that strikes me as an important point: When Wonder Woman said she didn't feel qualified to be part of the Justice League anymore because she'd lost her powers....
.....Batman was the first person to call it as bullshit....because that was never the main point of the Justice League....AND HE SHOULD KNOW BECAUSE HES ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS.
Scott you're very animated in this video. I love it! 😂😂😂
Long-form videos get me excited!
***** I may have to pull some gifs from this video!
the bow tie of truth 👐
Karvin Domingo The truth is that you're great! Keep it up!
It's a good tie!
Karvin Domingo bow ties are cool
NerdSync I need to know where Nick gets all of his bow ties #BowTieGameTooStrong
Albert Vilorio I found some Wonder Woman bow ties on Etsy. Now our #BowTieGame can be too strong too.
The Atari 2600 did not exist during the 1960s. The first video game console was the The Magnavox Odyssey. Which would not be released until 1972.
So It's Marvels fault DC butchered one of their biggest characters... It's definitely not DC's fault for lazily trying to copy Marvel?
I don't think you can blame Marvel for DC trying to copy them and failing miserably
Oh sure. It was more so the DC heads trying and failing to copy Marvel's style.
Then why title this video otherwise? Are you trying to add more fuel to the DC/Marvel conflict? How is this helping? Clickbait?
Alice Wasteland deadpool, iron man, captain america, Guardians of the galaxy, the avengers are their successful films. spider-man isn't just their only success
Alice Wasteland yet, Marvel has made $10 billion dollars in their film industry whereas the DCEU has only made $3 billion
Can't really say it was Marvel's fault that DC wanted to change her character
DracoFlyer I think what they're saying is that DC screwed up by trying to copy Marvel instead of being themselves. X/
Right, I associate this change with Emma Peel.
Autobot Starscream that still isn't marvel fault I like both companies thire different than each other so it dose saddened me when they try to chase each other tail to gain secus the only times when it worked was lobo/Deadpool/ deathstoke
isnt that funny that marvel copy everything and make it better (deadpool,thanos) and when dc try to copy them it goes horrible, yet people try to criticize marvel because of it
Tiagorpg mendes ture exept lobo
"I'm going to attempt to answer three questions:
1. What the f*ck?
2. Why the f*ck?
and
3. Who the f*ck?"
The Father of Lies Ah...glad to see another WoT fan who also appreciates Scott's analysis of comic books.
"More marvel.." as in killing the love interest?
It's not Marvel's fault, just because DC writers couldn't write real characters as well as Marvel.
DC and Marvel Cross-pollinated talent a lot. This revision was just a mistake.
Dc fan base took an F
Facts af
7:34-8:04
I feel like you misread that, it was *Diana's own choice* to leave because *she* felt like she didn't have a place in the justice league.
Also, look what the other members said, they refused her resignation, do you know why? Because you don't need superpowers to join the league.
At least, that's what I took from it.
Exactly, Batman was stating that she is always part of the Justice League and that she is welcome to return anytime she pleases. I don't understand how the host read that as an insult from Batman
It's not that Scott took Batman's words as insults, it's just that the writing doesn't make sense.
This comment will really help Nerdsync in the algoritm. Hope I spelled that right. Will still help though.
FakeNerdScout Yes it will and hopefully this one too!
Thanks, gang!
NerdSync Chu welcome!
NerdSync BTW I don't hate this (but the last issue is an aception). The thing could have worked with minor tweaks and if that last issue was cut out/ had some HUGE changes....
might do a video on it some time...
It seems that DC wasn't just chasing the marvel trend but chasing ALL the trends. Youth mod culture... check, ramping up consumer culture... check, Kung fu and in particular exploitive kung fu... check, lips service to women's movement and sexual revolution... check, fatigue from hippie movement and progressive politics... check. All they needed was a Mary Tyler Moore show and wonder woman crossover and all the boxes get checked. This is most likely why the material works to contradict itself in so many areas.
Adam Sagehorn Not to mention Diana looks like Mary to an uncomfortable degree. X(
Both are greedy mainstream American douchebags...but Marvel are the bigger douchebags (just ask the founders of Image Comics)...
Marvel ripped off most of the DC characters then claimed they were first...
Marvel have even ripped off the X-Men from DC...
ruclips.net/video/AMDhBT_X7gs/видео.html
And this is why the DCEU blows: Whenever they go chasing the trailblazers ((specially when the trailblazing is done by Marvel of all people)) they shoot themselves on the foot as a result. Wonder Woman was the attempt to cash in realistic superheroes and fashion of the era, the DCEU is chasing on the trend of not only the MCU, but also their success with the Nolan movies.
Marvel loves ripping off DC characters and if it wasn’t for DC Marvel wouldn’t exist.
Darkseid - the original Thanos, Deadpool is a weak parody of Deathstroke, Captain Marvel is a rip off of Shazam and Superman, the X Men is a rip off of Doom Patrol, plus they have ripped off many other characters.
While I don’t think DC/Time Warner is perfect (and imho just another mainstream media corporation), at least films like the Dark Knight, Watchmen, and V for Vendetta attempted to be faithful to the original characters and were movies in their own right instead of just a flimsy excuse of a cash grab and ego stroking (aka greed).
Despite all the hype the first DeadPool movie bored me, now I am sad to say the whole superhero movie genre bores me. Superhero movies are killing and cannibalising the comic book and film industry. Marvel had went bankrupt a while ago and sold a lot their character copyrights to movie studios. Unfortunately due to copyright conflicts and to appeal to politically correct mainstream movie audiences Marvel Comics has been adapting and killing off their most popular characters. For example Spiderman's Peter Parker no longer exists, and now is an African American teenage boy named Miles Morales.
Thor is now a Caucasian teenage girl
Iron Man is now an African American teenage girl
Captain Marvel/Ms Marvel is now a middle eastern Muslim teenage girl
And the list goes on...
Marvel Comics is hiring female writers for female characters and PC gentrifying their characters in an attempt to not alienate minorities, however they have instead alienated their greater traditional audience and sales have dropped dramatically. www.cbr.com/direct-market-sales-plummet-december-2017/
And no one says anything because they are afraid to be called "irrelevant"!
This horribly bleak cancer is coming soon to a StarWars/Star Trek/Alien franchise near you...
who cares about who copied who, what matters is who did it better. the wright brothers weren't the first to make a plane, they were just the first to make a plan fly. only whiny nerds still care about that stuff.
also as the guy pointed out in the video, comics sales are in decline as the years go and in the current era its the movies that make the most profits.
Well at least at some point they got rid of the "If she's tied up by a man she loses her powers." weakness.
I feel like a fashion obsessed Wonder Woman can still work
But like as a joke or something
Like somebody in the league mentions something related to fashion and has no idea what it means, Wonder Woman explains it perfectly but then goes “not that I would know”
why the click bait title that suggest marvel style of comic book telling is what caused DC writers to mess up. Tell the truth
Andrew Rhodes Exactly bro the guy who made the video obviously is scared to piss off DC fans in the wake of the Wonder woman movie success and is misleading his fans to believe Marvel has anything to do with DC poor choices at the time
Ryan Lyttle you... don't watch this channel do you...
creshiell I used to subscribe yes.. im tired of hate for marvel.. I dont see any videos of how DC messed up a marvel character and I honestly wouldnt want to becuase it is not accurate
Ryan Lyttle there is no hate for marvel on this channel... and I quote from this video "DC could not have failed more spectacularly"... there is also no hate for DC on this channel... everyone just loves comics and has very solid, and constructive critiques, often critiques that the creators of the comics themselves acknowledge as drawbacks, dude
Andrew Rhodes don't do this. wonder woman was a TOTAL success. EVEN the worst parts in wonder woman were better than any part of the the dark knight that didn't have the joker in it
Hey! This video is doing pretty well! Thanks to all the Wonderful Nerds for *giving it a like and sharing it around!*
I love the term "Marvelized"
Kyaknight ¡ And i love you being on this earth. Never change being amazing!
I think it's a term I picked up from Tim Hanley in the book I mentioned. It's pretty accurate. Haha
Kyaknight ¡ it doesn't work the other way "dced"
Karma
DCnized?
Yobby The Dinosaur 😂
err, Batman wasn't indicating she really didn't belong without powers! She said she didn't wanna be there without her powers and he said that she was welcome back any time (aka regardless of powers or no!!!) and he finished with that she should not feel bad for calling on them for help now that she was just a mortal. Because like in any profession one leaves; a former nurse will rarely call for a nurse when in need because she/he knows they are really busy, because they remember that they themselves were really busy. duh!
I assumed Bats' answer was trying the most politely to say "Diana are you crazy, ME, I don't have superpowers and I'm here".
Great vid, very well put together and well explained. I guess that DC wanted to make Diana more relatable to female readers by making her life more similar to those of women in the women’s magazines that came up around the same time (McCalls, Cosmo, etc), but it just came across as more like a TV show rather than a classic superhero comic (I guess). It would probably had gone over better if it was established at the beginning that the whole storyline of Diana losing her powers and physical strength was going to be a temporary situation until later on when she would be able to regain her superpowers. Once again very well researched and well done video, deserves lots of positive comments.
I've been an avid reader of comics for about 9 yrs. And I must say, l've not seen more wonderful reviews of comics than Nerdsync does. I've always welcomed new ideas, and Nerdsync has given just that. Keep up the good work.
Who loved the Wonder Woman movie ? If so why or why not ? Just give spoiler warnings if you mention one :)
AHeroAlmost
spoiler warning!!!
Havn't seen it yet.
AHeroAlmost
Possible Spoilers
The movie was great! It's overrated though, people saying it's better than Avengers, Iron Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Winter Soldier, Logan, Spiderman 2, Days of Future Past and other good movies. And i didn't like Ares and Dr Poison as villains. Chris Pine and Gal Gadot are perfect castings!
AHeroAlmost
Spoiler Warning!!!!
She's a Jew in real Life
AHeroAlmost Honestly, I just thought it was...meh. there was some cool moments but a lot of not so cool moments. also I REALLY didn't like the final battle. Personally, it was really boring for me.
SPOILER ALERT
It was good, not great but better than the others, the opening with the child was awful (The acting was hilarious, when the woman was reading the story it kept cutting to young WW making expressions and I couldn't stop laughing) and the ending fight was awful, When she killed the guy she thought was Ares, nothing happened, then Steve Trevor went on about how you can't just kill one guy and have it end the fighting and I thought it was a really good message and the movie would end with WW just killing Germans and stopping that gas stuff but then Ares actually shows up ruining that and then it just turned into the end of the rest of the DC movies with overuse of CGI and way too many explosions. In between those 2 points were good though.
What D.C. should learn from this and most of the DCEU is that when they try to do what Marvel is doing it fails. They should just do there own thing.
peacorptv dc should make a trilogy for each of there most popular characters.
peacorptv agreed. They can make a good movie, I believe that. They just need to be original in their own way.
Hey, Batman told her to come back when she felt like it. >.>
I'd prefer him saying "Come back when you want" over "NO, HOW DARE YOU!" lol
The people writing this seem to forget that while there was a woman's liberation movement in at this time, it was utterly and completely different than the feminism of today. Back then a woman doing anything other than entering a relationship with the sole purpose of getting married was out of the norm, so this wasn't considered terrible at the time. It was groundbreaking, and for current comic 'fans' or 'experts' to label it 'problematic' is much akin to ridiculing the giant on whose shoulders they are currently standing. Stories like these are the only reason that people could accept broader ideas in comics, though those arcs are hardly ever remembered by most of the fans.
That may just be the fact that the people involved in creating this video probably weren't even born at the time these stories were written. One could tell because the video left out the very obvious influence of The Avengers' (the British TV spies, not the US superheroes) Emma Peel on the "new" Wonder Woman. It would have been great if DC had created an Emma Peel-type character, rather than change Wonder Woman.
this channel feels like a comic version of Game/Film Theory. I guess there is a Comic Theory.
Hey, thanks! I think we rank pretty well when you search for Comic Theory on RUclips, so that's something!
Was that a compliment?
That's just a theory..A Comic Theory!
TheBurg
Thanks for reading!
insulting the pat...disgusting
Wonder Woman saying "I believe in Women's Rights but I'm not a Feminist". Oh God, OH GOD. Olive Byrne and Elizabeth Holloway Marston were alive at the time! The character created as a proto-feminist icon says she's not a feminist. OH MY GOD. That's bad, that's really bad
not only "I am not a feminist", but " I do not like women". Great job, really well done. Excellent role model right there.
Yep.
MakiPcr Ikr, so many women say that. Unfortunately the media (which was mostly male at the time) was so hostile to the feminist movement, that they demonized, in some cases, implying that feminists hated men, were Lesbians.
+Rachel Garber Manhating and political lesbianism were both components of that period of feminism. While obviously not all feminists followed that form of feminism, they weren't exactly fringe elements either.
9:33 Gal is written twice. They predicted Gal Gadot would play Wonder Woman!! It even says "Wonder Woman just happens to BE a healthy red blooded, young Gal"....Gadot! Coincidence? I think not!!!
That Other Nerd on the Internet lol
OH MY GOD you're right
Nah, "gal" was used a lot back then
It's good to know DC has a long history of missing the forest for the trees.
10:26
"Special Women's Lib Issue"
"So... Yeah"
(Pop up) "But can Wonder Woman Fly?????"
At least they didn't give Wonder Woman a second alter-ego
Cillian Brouder her mind could be colonised by an Egyptian wonder god
If we have learned anything here today, it's that when you have Wonder Woman saying she doesn't support women or their rights, you should not be writing Wonder Woman, period. That's about as bad as Superman not supporting truth and justice (the "American Way" bit is up for fair debate, and even in "Red Son" he had a fairly decent moral code) or Batman not wanting anyone to experience the type of crime that killed his parents.
This is why Wonder Woman is so lame. Because she attach to a boring political agenda. Its not like your going to read a Superman story were his a member of the NRA.
haha. I see what you did there. Batman really is very bad at stopping crime. Multiple times it's been said his existence escalates it.
Lone Star a boring political agenda? Sure some of the feminists today are annoying but your comment makes me wonder how you view the civil rights movement.
I love how the moniker "Man of many wives" is a subtle nod to WMM's polyamorous relationship
No mention of Emma Peel? That was a big part of their decision.
I agree, the WW reboot was more inspired by Emma Peel than by Marvel.
Which is funny given how Chris Claremont pretty much got inspired to create one of the most memorable X-Men villain factions the Hellfire Club based on that one episode of the Avengers where Emma Peel became their "Black Queen" (look it up) LOL
It was not Marvel's fault BTW it was DC. LET'S TAKE the blame where it is, deserved. They were still the ones writing, and they had a choice. My earlier comments,stand. Just wanted to add this in.
Amethyst Willow Nobody's saying it's Marvels fault; I think they're trying to say that it's DC's fault for trying to copy Marvel, not that Spider-Man broke into DC HQ and sabotaged them by making them make bad decisions. :3
After many decades of following Wonder Woman in all of her various venues, I have yet to see DC depict her with any consistency. Perez had some viable ideas but all-in-all there is still a lack of direction and continuity. Some stories have her second to Superman in strength and fighting ability, yet she is one of the first to fall when the JLA encounters a new foe. Maybe borrowing the template of Zena, Warrior Princess where the Greek gods are always interfering with her life could be a new attribute as Green Lanterns have to worry about the corps. But basically, I hope they take a hint from Joan Crawford when she told the movie moguls and that they will "stop F*@King with me, fellas".
you seem to have refined your format to perfection, 15-20 minutes of well researched and great presentation and the perfecr blend of visual elements and your talking. Keep it up Scott, i absolutely love what you are doing!
I hope you do a video about how WW has changed from a peaceful warrior to a sword wielding berserker. I think this change in character is by far the biggest change the modern WW has made from when I read her books in the 1970-2000.
"Peaceful warrior"
Beg pardon?
I just want to say that this video has amazing editing.
7:47- who in that panel said powers were a prerequisite? It appears that Batman respects her decision to leave, telling her she may return at any time(not if she gets her powers back), Superman(arguably the most powerful member) refuses to accept her resignation based on the loss loss of powers. Just reading the panel you show, it looks/reads more as she has an emotional crisis at the loss of her powers, Flash (implying from her reaction "No Flash-- I was Wonder Woman") still sees her as the same just de-powered, Batman and Superman want her to come back powers or no and to stay in contact. You imply a lack of respect for the character that isn't shown, instead they show a very real crisis for her at loosing her power, family, and love interest and respect her enough to let her make her own decisions.
9:10- second billing? With her name being larger and more prominant it's more like she was still billed as the main character with his name coming first (and in smaller text) as a mentor.
CamTheKitty Let's punish Batman for respecting women because he has a Pingas!
#priorities
Ya know... the mod era could work as a starting point for a wonder woman story. Like Diana was stolen from the Amazons as a baby and raised by rich people who spoil her with fashion and glamour. But she still has the need to fight so in secret she learns kung fu with her master and starts fighting low level crime while also running her boutique. Then after she starts gain some of her normal powers, a group of Amazons show up and fight Diana to prove her worth as a warrior. Once Diana actually shows she’s a true warrior she is kidnapped by the Amazons and is taken back to the island where she learns the truth of her origins!
9:00 -- Technically wouldn't Green Lantern also count as a guy without powers, just a snazzy gizmo?
John Pelt
Actually, a green lantern's power level is determine by its ring bearer's will power, Hal Jordan is known to be the greatest green lantern because he has the strongest will power in the universe. Even John Steward and Guy Gardner are not as powerful in terms of will power. So maybe you can classify Hal Jordan's Will power as naturally super human level which effectively gives him a super hero status with or without his green lantern ring.
Jeonhaerimfan Like how Batman can be considered as a superhero with the superpower of super-human intelligence if you consider his genius intellect to actually be at a superhuman level? :3
Autobot Starscream
Lol, if Batman is consider a superhero, then at most he is Green Arrow level. But in truth, he's much more vulnerable to attacks than any Green Lanterns. As to why it is so, with any Green Lanterns, they have the luxury of having tech support from a highly advance alien technology from their Guardian Masters, which is far more superior than anything Batman can come up with, despite his intelligence and wealth.
Jeonhaerimfan isn't Kyle reaner the best one?
green arrow is like the robin hood of dc .. does that make robin hood a superhero? i mean at the end of the day he split an arrow in 2! like accuracy = superhero now right? lol my point is.. it's like saying if you are incredibly talented at something and use that talent to save people u'd be considered as a superhero.. lol
dunno where i was going with this lol just thought i'd put it out for thought lol.
Well, atleast the Mod era Wonder Woman had beautiful Artwork. It look gorgeous!
I agree. The art style looks great and colorful. But, the story is utter garbage. I even liked the new logo.
Some of it was really good (the Cat Woman/Fafhred & The Gray Mouser story with Dick Giordano's art was especially good). Even that last story, unlike a lot of Denny O'Neil's "relevant comics" (he was the Editor by then), presents both sides. I did not read the book then, but some of the work stands the test of time. Depowering super heroes was also kind of a Denny O'Neil trope. He got rid of Kryptonite but reduced Superman's powers when he was writing the Superman book and he reduced Green Lantern's powers when he was writing Green Lantern/Green Arrow in the same period.
that's so gracious of denny o'neil to own up to his rather blind choices at the time. we're all just learning to see each other better day by day.
This guys quality is above over 50 million subscribers! He deserves more!
All the criticism of MOD era Wonder Woman is justified. Everything WW did in those issues had the complete opposite impression of women empowerment. 1. They took away her strength, and her motivation was to please a man. 2. She gave up her position as a world leader, trying to bring about peace. 3. Her overwhelming concerns about fashion and men, made Diana more of a bubble head. It was bad all around.
However DC wanted to have a culturally relevant female superhero of those exciting times of the women's lib movement. I cannot fault them for their motivation, only their execution. This new Diana Prince may have worked better as a totally original character. The changes made to WW may have worked better for a character like Batgirl.
Unfortunately the creative team and the editors did not fully understand the movement on which they were using as the motivation for the WW changes. They turned the Wonder Woman comic into the classic Superman's Gal Lois Lane comic book. It is what they knew. Basically they wanted to make WW more modern and relevant, but they didn't understand the modern and relevant message of women's lib. Because they didn't understand it, they stubbed their toe something fierce when trying to execute the plan.
It's funny because it had potential to actually reinvent DC comics in the 60s, but the execution was kind of marred by a bias to a sexist society. However, imagine if they succeeded and made wonder woman reflect the woman's movement at that time even more, they could have been huge.
I think the problem was that Wonder Woman didn't need to change, her world could have changed. What kind of problems she faced, villains and side characters. We could have peeked more into Diana Prince, but like Superman... really, Diana Prince is the costume, Wonder Woman is the Identity. It would have been interesting to see the "relatable" one just be introduced by more female characters.
I imagine what would happen if an Amazon that idolized Diana, snuck off to fallow in her footprints and became involved in the women's movement as she went through the whole fish out of water story the "women's movement issue" tried to do, at the beginning. There could have been aspects of a new Male villain that the people think Superman needs to save them, that wonder woman isn't strong enough, and have that wedge separate her from the Justice League.
We could have seen wonder woman change on in recognizing what her role and image means to the women around her, and had that lead her into being an even greater hero. I think we could have had that "little sister Amazon" character, we could have expanded her circle of friends, adding more female side characters, and that would have done more.
Still, I know all that is from a more modern feminism perspective. That said, it always makes me wonder what effect would it have on readers if we took the comics of today and presented them in the past. I imagine people would be appalled, but it would be incredibly interesting.
If you believe Clark Kent is the costume. Aw man buddy old pal
Wonder Girl appeared in Wonder Woman comic books and Teen Titans comic books also known as Donna Troy and TV version played by Debra Winger was called Drusilla.
Greats work Scott hahaha, nice 29 second Live Stream that left me waiting for it to come back on and then nice twitter Live Steam too hahahahaha
Paul Cagliarini Have a great day dude!
FakeNerdScout Hahahah thanks, you too, I'm gonna watch this, the rest of the Weekly Planet Podcast and the new Caravan of Garbage and then later on gonna rewatch some more of Series 10 of Doctor Who
That was my intention... I mean, it wasn't. I'm just an idiot. Haha
NerdSync Hahaha, good luck on the views and algorithm stuff then Scott
the editing is SO GOOD!!!
Quality stuff. love how in depth and well researched all of your videos are. This level of production is worth the wait.
Criticises Wonder Woman for giving up her agency for Steve Trevor's desires.
Two minutes later criticises Batman for accepting Wonder Woman's agency over his desires.
DC = Fantasy
Marvel = Scientific
DC be our own thing don't copy Marvel.
DC tried to emulate what Marvel was doing and totally missed the mark... deja vu
Jeff Bennett Look at Marvel SJW comics now lol
The Pursuit Of Knowledge Sad days for comics.
Gabriel Heard Yep diversity for the sake of diversity and replacing original heroes with new shitty ones for the SJW purposes (Asian Hulk, Fully Armored Iron Man loses to Captain Marvel just so the girl can win, gay Iceman with his fucking Inhuman Boyfriend and many many more)
Great video guys!! Keep up the good work.
z- naqvi Yeah!
Thank you so much!
So wonderwoman was like your haircut... undefendable
BRUTAL!!!
This sums up my feelings on most 'progressive comic' writing, that ends up being way more condescending than the 'tropes' they are fighting against.
I loved the editing in this video, especially during the bits where you make fun of your own jokes.
Levi Phipps I'm really happy you enjoyed it! The positive feedback on editing in these comments is very encouraging, thank you!
I don't think this is as bad as NerdSync is trying to make it sound. (I haven't read the comic but from listening to the story beats I think this could have been a really good WW stories).
Think about it, a character giving up everything for something they want in the short term and it being the wrong choice, this can make an awesome setup for a story. NOTE: it shows a great example of where she is and that she needs to grow.
Then she sees that she has mortal flows then considers herself unfit for the JL because the only thing she sees herself as a has been or being useless without her powers. With Batman showing that it's not the powers, but the person that makes someone super, setting up what growth she needs.
Then giving her a great mentor to help with her grow as a character.
Fashion was a big thing in the 70s so no fault there, but I think the major problem with this story is chasing current day fads instead of trying to make something timeless that the writers didn't know enough about. But I do see some brilliance between the lines that could have made a great story that empowered everyone.
I'm not trying to say this comic is good. Just trying to say that this WW could be an interesting comic
"Revolted by the fans"? Maybe the fans were REVOLTED by 70s Wonder Woman, but "revolted by the fans"? No. Not unless Wonder Woman was saying how much her readers disgusted her in every issue.
The two things that stuck out to me in this video:
1) So because Diana made a decision based on her own life and the people that made her happy she was bending to the whims of her significant other? Erm... no.
2) Because DC failed to emulate Marvel it's Marvel's fault? Lol, yet again. No. That's like saying "I tried to make a movie but it wasn't good because I had no experience in it! This is all the fault of good filmmakers!"
I-Ching was a marketing strategy, during that era karate was a big movement...(Bruce Lee etc)
Kung-Fu.
it was one of those cases where they needed to create a new character not revamp and trash a classic. marvel took risks in creating characters. not every one panned out. but if you have a new idea make a new character.
Great video! Very informative. You should do a video each on how DC changed the storyline for Batman and Superman. Like why Batman was not so Dark in the 1950's - 1960's. Which started the Batman Tv show. And made him seem so Campy. And how Superman went from Champion of The Oppressed to Standing for Truth, Justice and the American way. In which he became the Overgrown Boyscout that everyone accuses him for. And making Superman so unrelatable to his readers. Which is why in general when DCEU makes movies for Batman and Superman, and why they seem so different from what the average American knows them by. Which is why the general public rejects them immediately.
This video was really informative and got to me to know more about wonder woman, also I do believe "the mod era wonder woman" was really backwards and very bad!!!!! I mean why take her powers away if that's what makes her awesome and incredible in the first place.
The Mod Era wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be, that's why it's been reprinted in trade. It was just a cool idea that ran out of steam too quickly.
Lesson to be learnt here; writers, if you want to tackle a certain social issue, write it so it flows organically, so it doesn't feel tacked on and awkward.
8:00 wow that pathetic attempt at pandering. Did you even read the previous panel? They refused to believe he leaving, since they never said powers were a requisite. This is why Batman and others said she can come back anytime.
She’s the one who decided to leave justice league- they didn’t kick her out. Nobody said “hey now that you don’t have any powers you’re out”. Nope, they accepted her resignation and invited her back at her own choice of time. What did you want? Did you want Batman to talk her into staying? Cause if he did that all you would be doing is talking about how “yet again men are attempting to take her agency and force a woman into a role that she clearly doesn’t want to be in”. Instead, they respected the decision that she came to on her own and said she was welcome to change her mind- seems pretty empowering actually. See this is why it’s so damn hard to take the Left seriously. They NEVER get enough and they are NEVER happy. They poke straw man holes into every interaction between those they deem as powerful and those they deem as powerless. The virtue signaling has gotten so OOC that even in this clear example of allowing a woman to choose what she wants for herself, they find a way to twist it to meet their narrative even if it’s not a true indicator of the actual situation.
And your hair and bow tie are really really pretentious. Do you think we are going to confuse you for some newly minted PhD teaching “Intro to Women’s Rights”? Oh wait...
Dave Windell We must punish Batman for respecting women because he has a Pingas!
#priorities
Are you on drugs? The problem is that they wrote all this hot garbage in the first place...
17:04 I'm always fascinated by attempts to specify the geography of fictional locations in comics. I see this is one of the instances in which Metropolis and Gotham City are located across the Delaware River from one another (a configuration that pops up from time to time, though it's hardly consistent).
Which seems odd as it's usually overcast in Gotham but bright and sunny in Metropolis.
You know, the sad thing about the Mod era Wonder Woman is that even without her powers, Diana was a much more experienced fighter than IChing or Batman.
Hey, so I am not a big fan of comics, but I really enjoy watching your videos about comics. They're really interesting. :)
Kanigher is a cool last name.
IT IS! It's so satisfying to say!
I wish I could like this video multiple times great job!!!! 😊
Where is the "Diana's sexuality/authors original intent" video? Its been almost a year !!!!!!
Mod era Wonder Woman opening up a clothing boutique would have worked if this was what warrior Diana did as a civilian. But by removing the warrior aspect of herself, she definitely wasn't Wonder Woman anymore.
She became woman
That quote at 9:30 was nothing new to Wonder Woman- In issue #1, when Diana first wins the Amazons' contest and is awarded her magic lasso and costume, the caption reads "Diana, like any girl with new clothes, simply can't wait to try them on" (as close as I can paraphrase) So what you should really be saying is 30 years later, nothing had changed.
So bassically DC made the same mistake twice... first in comics and now in CU, trying to copy Marvel's formula without undertanding it hahaha
CU?
Cody Hines, cinematic universe
So Wonder Woman kinda did the same sacrifice that Hercules (The Disney version mind you) did only kinda in reverse.
The Thodern, Not really, WW came of coming from a point where the way she was was wrong (as a woman attracted to men) because Steve didn't like her as she was before, changing for others is fine as long as you don't devalue yourself for them. Hercules didn't change to be a better person or more attractive to make others like him, he did it cause he wanted to stay with Meg.
Giving up her powers was so she could stay with him, changing her fashion was a choice she made and one she decided to continue when he finally showed interest in her as Diana Prince and not as Wonder Woman. It's basically more like a cross between Little Mermaid and Hercules, she gives up her powers to stay on earth with the man she loves. And she changed how she dressed to keep him liking her as a mortal without powers.
Love the Bow Tie.
Thank you! It was sent to me by a fan!
I see this less as O'Neil and Serkowski's fault as it is DC'S for not hiring women writers and artists for the book. You really can't blame men who in an ever changing world were tasked to write a book about what they could never understand being men. I certainly wouldn't take that task. Their only mistake was not saying 'if you want to modernize a woman, you should hire a female creative team".