It's so satisfying when you first realize assisting is an option. I've had plenty of games where someone has like three dora and I assist another player with a much weaker hand just to bring forth the next round.
As some of you have pointed out, I forgot kyuushu kyuuhai was a thing (I've been playing a lot of games under the WRC ruleset recently) So if you're playing on Mahjong Soul or anywhere else where kyuushu kyuuhai is enabled, usually take it unless you're extremely ahead in score and you have committed to playing safe, or extremely behind in score and need a miracle
A rule applied in some rulesets of riichi mahjong. If your hand consists of 9 or more terminals before any of your draws, you can choose to draw that round.
Thanks for the excellent video! I've been playing since December and only 1-2 months ago realized that assisting and blocking progression of opponents' hands could be interesting.
In tournaments you may not bust so push or die trying doesn't always apply, especially if your end score affects end rankings at all. Going negative is worse than remaining in 4th with a low score.
Question about the second type of bad hand: Wouldn't it be better to draw via 9 terminals? Theoratically, it gives you the chance at a better hand, and you get +300 points in the payout. And since you discard only simple tiles when you want 13 Orphans, any good player would avoid playing terminales. Overall, it's just not rewarding enough: either someone deals in on another player, or the match is exhausted (same effect as using the 9 Terminal- rule)
Ohya I forgot about kyuushu kyuuhai, I've recently been playing a ruleset that disables it. Forgot that it's enabled in Mahjong Soul's ruleset, thanks for pointing it out!
A 32k+ thats almost not doable or a 300+ that has a possible chance of happening? You do you, but I think most agree when I say the latter option is better.
I read a blog once that looked at tenhou stats and said that in higher lobbies people go for it when starting hand has 11+ terminal. Seems to have around a 1/3 chances. Not sure if that logic still stands but that has been my rule since And ofc if you need a miracle to get you out of 4th just go for it
So if I got the second half right, it boils down to "if your hand isn't shaping up by the mid-All Last or so and you're in a comfy position score-wise, you can go kingmaking instead of fending for yourself" xD
Sometimes it's even possible to play into someone's obvious honitsu (assuming dora is in another suit). I was able to escape 4th place via kokushi musou once. Got 48000 by ron.
For me use feeling first After that prepare for middle hand like 468 priority that first rather than 89 or 12 if you don't get the sequence yu need asap. Than think to make tanyao or yakuhai If your opponent riichi just follow their discard tiles and stay to tenpai nomi plan If more than 1 people riichi start to forget tenpai nomi just discard like they're tiles If yu lucky maybe yu can tenpai Just my SOP in this condition
1:49 What are the factors that influence the decision to go for kokushi rather then triggering kyuushu kyuuhai (if the ruleset allows it) when you get a starting hand with 9+ honors/terminals? Edit: I also want to mention that I recently commented with a link to a log on your subscriber log review video, but it was automatically blocked by RUclips because of the hyperlink :(
Yup I forgot about kyuushu kyuuhai, I've been playing a lot of games IRL in a ruleset where it's disabled. Thanks for pointing it out! Btw, the answer = when you're either very far ahead or very far behind Also I wasn't aware of the hyperlink issue, didn't realize YT was so strict about uploading links. It seems I need to manually approve every comment with a link inside, maybe comment again and I'll try and manually approve it on my end? Thanks a lot
It depends on what kind of terminals you get, too. If you have 9 different terminals like in the example, then you should rather draw. If you now had 11 different terminals on the hand, it could be worth a try. Basically, the more different terminals, the better. If you have some terminals in pairs, then it depends if you get any yaku out of them or can fulfill a Toitoi (maybe Honroutou or Honitsu) hand. 1m 1m 4m 9m 9m 6s 2p 7p south south north north east -> could be worth a try with above hand possibilities, bonus points if one of your winds is north or south, but 1m 1m 4m 9m 6s 9s 2p 7p south north north west Wh.Dragon is rather something you should draw
Btw great vids more detailing to give vision about yaku Im stup1d as ichihime so "what is yaku?" Yakuhai je lah don't make it harder to think :v Some people say that kind of my playstyle was quite weird idk to be honest :v
Let's say it's the end of the east round or the start of the south round, and you are firmly in last place (with say, 16,000 points). How much do you want to push with bad hands in the context of a tournament? As you are in 4th place, you obviously want to be more aggressive to try to catch 3rd, but I recently had a tournament game where I dropped to 4th early on, kept trying to push (including with less than stellar starting hands) and just kept dropping further and further down the abyss until I finished the game with a final score of -58 (including uma) How do you balance pushing to get out of 4th and self-preservation in a tournament context where your score carries over?
In general: 1) understand your win condition (jōken, 条件, じょうけん). Being at 16000 score is not that bad, a mangan tsumo or direct hit will most likely put you in 3rd place or higher. If for example, your closest rival is only slightly higher than you at 19000 points, any 3 han 30 fu hand means you already overtake him to reach 3rd place. 2) don't push hands that have no value, when it doesn't help you overtake 3rd place. It makes more sense to either wait for a better hand to fight back, or try to assist someone else on the table until he is in tenpai and hope that 3rd place deals into him (slightly more advanced concept). E.g. assisting someone's honitsu attempt until he overflows a tile, the fold. There are other ways to play besides trying to increase your own score. 3) the lower your score is and the closer it gets to South 4, the more you need to greed for bigger hands. Hope this helps!
I am going to hard disagree with the first example. A bad hand like this is always started by dropping unhelpful honors. Yes, it's unlikely you will get it, but discarding 2m gives up potential block there. Playing like this truly makes the hand bad and irredeemable whereas you could actually draw 11234m, ssk or something alonbg the lines with this 2m. My own rule is to never think about defense in the first few turns of the game unless something really weird is happening and definitely not take such a decision based on my own hand alone.
Thats not a big problem play bad hand in all last when you comfortably first. Tell what to do when you draw that crap in all last and when you on last place
It's so satisfying when you first realize assisting is an option. I've had plenty of games where someone has like three dora and I assist another player with a much weaker hand just to bring forth the next round.
As some of you have pointed out, I forgot kyuushu kyuuhai was a thing (I've been playing a lot of games under the WRC ruleset recently)
So if you're playing on Mahjong Soul or anywhere else where kyuushu kyuuhai is enabled, usually take it unless you're extremely ahead in score and you have committed to playing safe, or extremely behind in score and need a miracle
what the hell is kyuushu kyuuhai
A rule applied in some rulesets of riichi mahjong. If your hand consists of 9 or more terminals before any of your draws, you can choose to draw that round.
Great video!
I’ll definitely try to get better at aiding or blocking. I hadn’t really thought about those aspects.
Your Videos are really helpful to improve in Mahjong, keep doing so!
"You open a hand like this. What do you do?"
Me, immediately: KOKUSHIMUSOU
These tutorials are amazing, thank you!!
Thanks for the excellent video!
I've been playing since December and only 1-2 months ago realized that assisting and blocking progression of opponents' hands could be interesting.
In tournaments you may not bust so push or die trying doesn't always apply, especially if your end score affects end rankings at all. Going negative is worse than remaining in 4th with a low score.
Question about the second type of bad hand: Wouldn't it be better to draw via 9 terminals?
Theoratically, it gives you the chance at a better hand, and you get +300 points in the payout. And since you discard only simple tiles when you want 13 Orphans, any good player would avoid playing terminales. Overall, it's just not rewarding enough: either someone deals in on another player, or the match is exhausted (same effect as using the 9 Terminal- rule)
Ohya I forgot about kyuushu kyuuhai, I've recently been playing a ruleset that disables it. Forgot that it's enabled in Mahjong Soul's ruleset, thanks for pointing it out!
does the 300 worth taking or the 32k+
A 32k+ thats almost not doable or a 300+ that has a possible chance of happening?
You do you, but I think most agree when I say the latter option is better.
I read a blog once that looked at tenhou stats and said that in higher lobbies people go for it when starting hand has 11+ terminal. Seems to have around a 1/3 chances. Not sure if that logic still stands but that has been my rule since
And ofc if you need a miracle to get you out of 4th just go for it
So if I got the second half right, it boils down to "if your hand isn't shaping up by the mid-All Last or so and you're in a comfy position score-wise, you can go kingmaking instead of fending for yourself" xD
Sometimes it's even possible to play into someone's obvious honitsu (assuming dora is in another suit).
I was able to escape 4th place via kokushi musou once. Got 48000 by ron.
For me use feeling first
After that prepare for middle hand like 468 priority that first rather than 89 or 12 if you don't get the sequence yu need asap.
Than think to make tanyao or yakuhai
If your opponent riichi just follow their discard tiles and stay to tenpai nomi plan
If more than 1 people riichi start to forget tenpai nomi just discard like they're tiles
If yu lucky maybe yu can tenpai
Just my SOP in this condition
very good vid, thank you
1:49 What are the factors that influence the decision to go for kokushi rather then triggering kyuushu kyuuhai (if the ruleset allows it) when you get a starting hand with 9+ honors/terminals?
Edit: I also want to mention that I recently commented with a link to a log on your subscriber log review video, but it was automatically blocked by RUclips because of the hyperlink :(
Yup I forgot about kyuushu kyuuhai, I've been playing a lot of games IRL in a ruleset where it's disabled. Thanks for pointing it out! Btw, the answer = when you're either very far ahead or very far behind
Also I wasn't aware of the hyperlink issue, didn't realize YT was so strict about uploading links. It seems I need to manually approve every comment with a link inside, maybe comment again and I'll try and manually approve it on my end? Thanks a lot
It depends on what kind of terminals you get, too. If you have 9 different terminals like in the example, then you should rather draw.
If you now had 11 different terminals on the hand, it could be worth a try. Basically, the more different terminals, the better.
If you have some terminals in pairs, then it depends if you get any yaku out of them or can fulfill a Toitoi (maybe Honroutou or Honitsu) hand.
1m 1m 4m 9m 9m 6s 2p 7p south south north north east -> could be worth a try with above hand possibilities, bonus points if one of your winds is north or south, but
1m 1m 4m 9m 6s 9s 2p 7p south north north west Wh.Dragon is rather something you should draw
Btw great vids more detailing to give vision about yaku
Im stup1d as ichihime so "what is yaku?"
Yakuhai je lah don't make it harder to think :v
Some people say that kind of my playstyle was quite weird idk to be honest :v
Any tips for getting 10 top 2 finishes in a lower rank room? Thanks for the tips!
Honestly, just play solidly and it will happen eventually when the luck lines up
Let's say it's the end of the east round or the start of the south round, and you are firmly in last place (with say, 16,000 points). How much do you want to push with bad hands in the context of a tournament? As you are in 4th place, you obviously want to be more aggressive to try to catch 3rd, but I recently had a tournament game where I dropped to 4th early on, kept trying to push (including with less than stellar starting hands) and just kept dropping further and further down the abyss until I finished the game with a final score of -58 (including uma)
How do you balance pushing to get out of 4th and self-preservation in a tournament context where your score carries over?
In general:
1) understand your win condition (jōken, 条件, じょうけん). Being at 16000 score is not that bad, a mangan tsumo or direct hit will most likely put you in 3rd place or higher. If for example, your closest rival is only slightly higher than you at 19000 points, any 3 han 30 fu hand means you already overtake him to reach 3rd place.
2) don't push hands that have no value, when it doesn't help you overtake 3rd place. It makes more sense to either wait for a better hand to fight back, or try to assist someone else on the table until he is in tenpai and hope that 3rd place deals into him (slightly more advanced concept). E.g. assisting someone's honitsu attempt until he overflows a tile, the fold. There are other ways to play besides trying to increase your own score.
3) the lower your score is and the closer it gets to South 4, the more you need to greed for bigger hands.
Hope this helps!
@@Xanxust1 thanks for the answer! I guess it all comes back to "focusing on value" haha
this made playing feel so much easier. In the first bad hand e.g., say one of the winds are the dora, would you still keep that wind?
Usually yes, and I will only release it if I feel like my hand is worth playing that round
I am going to hard disagree with the first example. A bad hand like this is always started by dropping unhelpful honors. Yes, it's unlikely you will get it, but discarding 2m gives up potential block there. Playing like this truly makes the hand bad and irredeemable whereas you could actually draw 11234m, ssk or something alonbg the lines with this 2m.
My own rule is to never think about defense in the first few turns of the game unless something really weird is happening and definitely not take such a decision based on my own hand alone.
To each their own, keep in mind that these are just guidelines at the end of the day
Thats not a big problem play bad hand in all last when you comfortably first. Tell what to do when you draw that crap in all last and when you on last place
Aim for value