ANOTHER Lockheed 12A Crash! NC2072 17 June 2024 Jackson, GA.
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- Опубликовано: 18 июн 2024
- Another very rare Lockheed 12A accident. This is the one involving Dan Gryder in Georgia. UPDATE: The tailwheel appears unlocked in the landing video, this can happen even if you have the lever in the correct position as the locking pin is held in with a bungee cord that can fail...
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Pretty good video with all of the details you could have had. We did only work on the right gear and while tightening the brake line, didn’t tighten it enough. We tested everything on the ground before flying and didn’t see any leaks. Apparently when we started flying and the gear was retracted, it twisted the line enough to loosen the brake line. When landing, and the tail wheel lowered, it started moving to the left as the left wheel assembly is a little tighter than the right. This has been the normal operation since I bought it, and requires a tap on the right brake to keep straight. Locking the tail wheel doesn’t really stop this motion but would have kept us straighter for longer. However, if you look at a longer arc you would see we would have more than likely hit the gas tank. The Lockheed’s tail wheel does’t retract and has never shown any signs of trying to ground loop. If you don’t have brakes you can’t control most tail draggers. Some are light enough to control with rudders but the big ones are impossible.
It was just a tragic situation with a ton of little miracles that made it all work out. I hope to be able to get her back into the air but it is going to be a job.
Thanks for the update and well done on politely setting the record straight.
Thanks for the update Niz!
Most importantly no lives were lost. Hoping for a speedy recovery for everyone!
Good job once again Juan. Respectful and concise.
I’m sure you’re correct that D.G. will have a story to tell, he always does.
Thank you for the clarification. Wishing you and the others a full and speedy recovery! This too shall pass!
“Trying to land a shopping cart backwards.” What a great description.
When I got my tailwheel training in 2004 the instructor said "it's like pushing a shopping cart backwards." Never thought of it as landing a shopping cart backwards till now. lol
check list top 5 lock the tail wheel gee.....
nobody seems to give a damn about the poor tree!
Was just about to enter this as the best comment I heard about landing the Electra!
@@2wheelman I wonder if there is any indication of "tailwheel locked" on the panel. Somehow, from 1936, I'd guess not.
Well, here’s a video you need to watch to the end. Wow.
Lmao for real. I was about to click another video when I heard the hot off the press. Absolute slam dunk.
Omg same i just started re watching from beginning thinking i missed him mentioning him earlier because i was like WAIT. WHAT?! (At the end) Is that for real?
Always good with proper video evidence.
Except the END of the incident is missing.
@@swiftadventurerthe end of the incident is the photos. That’s good enough. YT doesn’t take too kindly to some content
Former DC-3 instructor here (but without Lockheed 12 experience). You don't want to "fly the tail down" after a wheel landing in a heavy airplane. You want to keep the tail up high for as long as you can in order to keep the fin in the slipstream and the rudder effective. In fact, don't touch down tail low at all when you are first learning to wheel land. Roll the mains on and push the yoke forward to unload the wing and to put some weight on the mains. Many people get spooked by this. They think they are going to nose over, but they won't. Keep pushing as you slow to keep the tail up. Don't let the tail down right away and certainly don't try to "pull" the tail down early or you could lose directional control-you probably will lose directional control doing that.
I don't know how the brakes are on a Lockheed 12 but on a DC-3 the brakes are very effective. Even so, you can brake hard in a DC-3 while on the mains, tail up, after landing. In that case, you do a balancing act between heavy braking and pulling back on the yoke to keep the nose up-but only do this if you need to stop quickly. By that I mean, better braking is not a reason to prematurely lower the tail. What you often see nowadays are pilots landing tail low and then bringing the tail down much too soon after a wheel landing, done in the misguided attempt to obtain better steering and better braking. That technique only makes steering and braking more difficult. I saw this poor technique being done on RUclips videos from the recent D-Day celebrations in England. That's also what I see happening in this present video but the tailwheel wasn't locked and that would have been the biggest factor in this accident. Did they not lock it? Or did the locking mechanism not work properly? I understand that this flight was the initial post-maintenance flight.
The DC-3 tailwheel is locked with a shear pin that is designed to protect the structure from an overload. We always carried an extra shear pin because you can't safely fly a DC-3 if you can't lock the tailwheel. Does the L-12 have something similar that could have failed? On an airplane with a locking tailwheel, the takeoff is always done with the tailwheel locked and it is kept locked throughout the flight. There is no reason to unlock the tailwheel in flight and you shouldn't do it. If you unlock, then you have no guarantee it will re-lock properly before landing and no way to test it. It might or it might not; there is no indicator other than the control position. You can't tell for sure on a DC-3 and probably not on an L-12, either. Since the takeoff is always done with the tailwheel locked and it is left locked during flight, why was this airplane's tailwheel seen swiveling on landing?
I wish the three injured people a full and speedy recovery and I hope the airplane can fly again. It's a miracle the two up front escaped death after such a great huge tree trunk came through the cockpit.
GOOD COMMENT!!!
This does indeed seem to point to a failure? Because I can't imagine trying to take off with it unlocked - it would be immediately noticeable, even just taxiing a bit into position. I don't see any damage or parts flying off - just - it's not locked. So maybe the forces during takeoff damaged it and it wasn't noticed because the plane was about to lift off anyways? There is a short period where the wheel is going very quickly because the tail hasn't lifted yet that a sudden bump could do that?
Great comment.
All I can add is you have described the EXACT same landing procedure I was given when learning to wheel land in a Super Decathlon.
Tail High - Slight nose down AFTER contact - then hold it until the plane runs out of speed - then gently let the tail down.
I have a degree in Aerospace and the description by my instructor made PERFECT SENSE. That slight nose down (push forward on the controls) reduces the angle of attack and with it a REDUCTION in lift. This helps steer the plane because the rudder is NOT being blanked by the wing as the speed falls away. It also helps prevent the plane lifting back off the runway which can happen if you pull back to soon because that increases the angle of attack and INCREASES lift.
I also not that Jack Anderson (below your comment) says basically the same as you.
In the video, does it appear that he landed as you advise, or could he have held the tail up a little longer?
Regarding not unlocking the tail wheel in flight...
As some of the purpose of the flight was to confirm that no "killer items" could get missed in the check lists, I'm wondering if the tail wheel lock was deliberately set to unlock in flight, to check that it was caught by the check list? And either not reset to "locked" (unlikely) or was reset to locked but didn't actually lock.
As you say, there would be nothing unusual about it not re-lockling correctly in that circumstance and hopefully the guys on board fully understood that and would not be doing it. (Unless there's something unusual about the tail wheel lock on the 12A that allows a reliable unlock/lock operation in flight).
In a way, it would be nice if this was a mechanical defect rather than an operator error but is that likely when the tail wheel was presumably locked OK during takeoff?
Juan - I must say that even though I know you and Dan don't always agree, I must applaud how respectful you are in this commentary. Thankfully no fatalites, except maybe the airplane. As always, Cheers from GEG!
Unlike Dan in his latest Facebook post who's having a dig at Juan
Despite reaching a completely wrong conclusion. Just looking at that video its clear as day its a right brake failure. Nada to do with the tailwheel.
@@davidwebb4904 OK Dan
Good to hear that the three people onboard are likely to survive. It is amazing to see airplanes built in the 1930’s still flying, but losing two airframes in one week is sad.
Unfortunately, I am not sure Dans ego survived. In a few days we will know, AND probably have the DTSB report exonerating everyone named Dan on the flight deck.
@@DanG-sx9lethis made me laugh out loud for real … and so accurate.
@@DanG-sx9le I'm not a pilot nor have any aviation knowledge, and googled "DTSB NTSB" since i though it was another new branch of NTSB, but for domestic transport (hence DTSB)
I was so wrong.
I don’t want to speculate, and Yes I agree that any number of malfunctions could have contributed to this crash. But reinventing an established cockpit flow at a critical phase of flight is a potentially problematic situation. Regardless of the right seat prowess.
I hope that is repairable, but it does look like quite an impact. 😢
I've been a pilot for 40 years, I must say that you have beautifully constructed an argument without stepping on someone toes. GA and airlines need people like you. Nowadays, I fly my own tail dragger (Extra300), and they tend to run away very quickly especially in a narrow runway with a cross wind+ the additional gyroscopic effects. Keep the good work 👏
I hope I’m not the only “non airplane guy” watching this. Channel. I’m not a pilot. I don’t work in the industry at all. But something about they say you describe these instances makes it a very interesting topic to me. Thank you Mr Browne for all the hard work you do👍
Ditto. I find it fascinating. I am also astounded [though of course I should not be] by the amount of knowledge that you have to have and to maintain.
Same here, except I'm a "non-airplane girl." I'm actually quite afraid of planes, but they also fascinate me, and Juan's expertise coupled with his "no bs" style keeps me coming back to his videos.
I'm also a "non-airplane gal." I'm an accountant, and I don't work in the airline industry. Never took any flying lessons, and I don't plan too. I just think airplanes are cool. I fly several times a year as a passenger either for my job or to visit family. I love the whole experience of being tens of thousands of feet in the air in a giant, metal bird. I don't think it's strange at all to be a plane enthusiast without knowing how to fly. Think of all the train enthusiasts out there who don't work in the rail industry.
@@Chishannicon Same!
You’re not alone here. I work in EMS and the funeral business. I have no interest in flying, I’ve never liked it. But I find aviation fascinating and enjoy learning about it.
I owned 5 DC-3s and 1 Lockheed L-18. I always wheel landed and kept the tail high for directional control on roll out. The tail only came down when it wouldn't fly any longer. At that point, my groundspeed was minimal, and I could then pin the tail down with the elevators. 8 years and never a problem.
Dan preached the same thing on his dc-3; keep the tail wheel high.
Same for the Grumman Goose. They have a tailwheel lock but they’re not needed when you land as you describe.
Me too.
Dan's latest video, he showcased keeping the tail up a long ways down the runway.
@@mikebell2112 Can't wait for Dan's Sunday video. We can be certain he will be honest.
Glad that Dan and others survived the mishap, thanks for the video.
Interesting that Dan stated he wanted to document use of the checklist, yet it appears something was missed on said checklist.
Very odd.
Regardless of who was in command / on board, hope they all make a good recovery. Can't take any joy out of seeing anyone or an airframe banged up. Thank you for an informative video Juan.
Good on you for not focusing on Dan, especially since you've recently had a tense relationship.
We’re going to down here in the comments, rest assured
Dan G i asked what to do if a non IFR pilot gets into sudden IFR due he says for months not to turn if emergencies.. and to wait a good time to turn. He posted back to KEEP GOING INSIDE THE CLOUDS until i break to VFR on top.. To not turn 180 because its dangerous. LOL..Really? What about if the tops are at 25,000 feet up. ?. That advise has killed thousands i think. He has Emergency Turn FOBIA. Emergency Turn Fobia some have. They freeze instead of turning when needed. I trolled him. I was a CFI of Bush Pilots from 1995 to 2001.. LOL..
@@CFITOMAHAWKhow is this relevant to this video 😂
What am i ing? I haven't heard Juan say anything bad about Dan. They used to do videos together but then stopped but that doesn't mean they are having a tense relationship?
@@drspock3454 Did you miss the stolen tower light saga?
I can't imagine D.G. not having the video running...
He probably doesn't want to incriminate himself.
@@rob737700 Don't be an ass
Again.
Yeah, kinda like all those cockpit voice recorders that get over-written.....
Sounds real fishy
3 separate Medevac Helicopters responded. Each of them air lifted out. First responder comms were pretty intense.
Is it on an ATC website?
Two for the 3 injured men and 1 for Gryder's ego.
Dan G was medevac too?
@@ronjones-6977 AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I thought he lost that in the corn field.
@@terrydavis8451he will NEVER lose that.
I used to ride my bicycle up to the airport and go over to RPM aviation so I could see the old aircraft that they had there. I never got tired of looking at them. Loved it! Thanks for the report Juan. Pity they cracked up the airplane. I hope they can get it repaired. Sure is a pretty old bird.
That's a long hard ride up. I used to work on the mountain top.
No bicycle. Drove up to Cal-Nat. Ralph Ponte flew F7Fs during fire season and did most of his RPM restorations off season.
Glad all survived and wishing them all a speedy and complete recovery. These are the kinds of crash reviews that are very sobering, but critical to prohibit them from happening, again. Thanks for the good review, Juan.
Thanks much, Juan. Hope everyone makes a full and speedy recovery. This could have easily been much worse. Personalities aside, the flying community needs to rally around the aviators involved and wish them well. Great eyewitness video - looked like the tailwheel was spinning around like a top…
Would appear right aileron application involved ? The resulting YAW could be contributing ?
I agree. Dan needs to get back to work so he can pay off his debt to Cook.
@sonoftherepublic9792 Found the trumptard...
@@DanG-sx9le You are a TRUE JERK! What has Dan ever done to YOU? He's a great asset to the GA community and he has a BIG HEART. Leave him alone and bully someone else, or as they say..."GET A LIFE!"
Reminded me of those damn pos Maule tail wheels 50 yrs ago.
Yea…..i got thrown out of Kroger for landing a shopping cart backward! Management was not happy!
Thank you Juan. Your analysis as usual was heavily researched, concise and absent of judgement. We all learned from you, as always. It's Dan's unsupported knee jerk judgements and statements that have left me irritated with many of his past mishap "analysis" on Y.T. You did what you always do. You gave the operating crew a fair shake in your report. Maybe Dan will watch this and absorb that technique/skill from you out of gratitude,,,, maybe. Thank you again for yet another amazingly educational, researched, concise and nonjudgemental analysis. Most importantly you emphasized that all onboard are on the survivor's side of the ledger thus far,,,GOOD NEWS Indeed!
🦘🇦🇺 Thanks Juan for the respectful coverage of such awful event. Happy to see everyone got out alive. ✈️🙏
Wow! That tree certainly embedded itself into the fuselage. No wonder they all got pinned in their seats. I’m glad they all got out to tell the tale.
"they crashed into a tree", "but they are out of the woods"
😂
Just another case of they couldn’t see the forest for the trees. 🙏
Sounds like a question from the Branch Manager :-)
@@number1genoa 🤣 I think you should leaf that alone, after all the root cause hasn’t been determined. I’ve heard the Branch Managers bark is worse than his bite. Wouldn’t this be funny if it was the family tree they flew into. 🙏
I met this aircraft and owner last year. It's a beauty! He told me he's a software guy and travels with this airplane where his business is needed. I thought it to be an expensive mode of travel, and was duly impressed.
As usual, the thoroughness of your reporting and knowledge of subject matter is impressive and simple enough that even us back-seaters can grasp it.
That calls for a thorough DTSB investigation.
Dan got there as quick as humanly possible, CLEARLY.
@@psalm2forliberty577 Again...he's pretty good at this:/
@@psalm2forliberty577 HA HA HA!!!
Knowing Dan, his investigation will reveal the shocking news that he wasn't actually there. Or doesn't remember anything and there's no video.
@@psalm2forliberty577 Dan might not be an un-biased voice in this case....😁
Thanks Juan. I know you hear us say it but I hope you really understand what a valuable resource you are to the aviation community.
Much respect for Glen Hancock. I use to watch his videos of him working on the aircraft he owns and must say he seems to be a very good A&P mechanic.
Looked like a good landing, they kept the tail up pretty well, you can watch the elevator. I'm wondering about the recent brake work. Possibly left brake grabbed, or right brake was mushy, air in the line. At least they all survived to help with the investigation.
I used to see one of these planes flying out of Long Beach, CA airport every morning about 7:20 and later learned it was delivering the daily fresh fruit and veggies to Santa Catalina Island. Beautiful aircraft. Hopefully this one is repairable and good to hear all survived.
Juan is so respectful. Good work as always.
It is good no one is seriously hurt. Can't wait to hear Dan's description of what happened. I watch you, him, and Scott regularly. Thanks for the video.
Looks like they were seriously injured -
What in the Wide, Wide, World of Sports? There can not be that many 12A still flying? And yet we have two crashes in days of each other?🤷🏽♂️🛩
Just coincidence my man. These things happen, but agreed it's surprising.
lol. wide world of sports.
@@adam-hd7kg Ah brings back memories! I totally heard that in Howard Cosell's voice!
@@langdons2848 like the whole thing about celebrities dying in threes?
@@WALTERBROADDUS I haven't heard of celebrities dying in threes, but Google says it's a thing. But it's a big world out there, lot of people dying every day.
DTSB is so on point that Dan gets there as soon as the plane crashes.
Holy Cow!!! A buddy of mine owns a place there and I have flown out of it with a friend in his cub about 4 years ago. I also used to go out there as a kid in the 80’s with my grandfather who was an A&P and the guy who originally owned that airport. Glad all survived.
Always good to see everyone survived! Painful loss to the world of old airplanes. As an owner of a 1942 Howard I can attest to the maintenance issues with dealing with a very old airplane which does not have a good parts supply. The learning curve can be steep as you said Juan. It requires a lot of attention at every step. Keeping the energy direction lined up with the longitudinal axis can be a challenge in these airplanes with the long, heavy props that act like gyroscopes when changing attitudes from level to tail on the ground.
Thanks for the review. Glad that there are no fatalities.
The other video shows the tailwheel oscillating, so it wasn't locked. Person filming manages to film the grass at his feet just as the plane departs the runway, so no actual crash footage - go figure why.
One thing we know for sure, Dan didn't have anything to do with it. Just getting that out there, so we don't have to wait for his report.
He said he was applying right rudder.
Interesting that Dan was going to video the importance of checklist, yet apparently there was either a tailwheel lock failure, or the checklist was over ruled?
Thank you Juan for an excellent teaching experience, on such an old classic aircraft. Glad all occupants survived. As an owner of three 1946 taildraggers, single engine, after your rudder looses effect due to a lack of airspeed reliable brakes are essential for directional control. Especially in a cross wind.
Juan, great analysis, you are the best investigator on RUclips !! Hope all involved are going to recover, so sad. 🇺🇲
Apparently for the first time ever Dan is considered stable - I wish him a speedy recovery, I’ll get the popcorn ready his next video is going to be entertaining
😂
One more caution light for me: I am an old pilot flying an old airplane (well, not quite THIS old, but still...). The aircraft (a Helio H295 Super Courier) is not difficult or tricky as such but it IS a heavy 6-seat taildragger and it IS a handful. To compound the situation, I am flying less and less every year and I suspect my "patina of experience" is sneakily becoming a thick layer of rust.
I am seriously pondering when to limit my flying to the trusty old Avid Flyer we built in 1987 - it is light, nimble and has has a very similar field performance. Still, I seriously need to consider when to call it a day (I'm approaching 75).
Try to fly with the next generation! Once given the experience, they can act as a safety pilot allowing you to fly longer, and you can pass down your knowledge so these planes can keep flying. It’s a win win win 🫡
Please don’t wind up on this channel🤞
I think you may have already answered your own question to yourself.
Fly with a young CFI that's trying to build hours possibly.
Or just a younger competent pilot that may not get to fly as much as he would like.
SAFETY FIRST!!!!
Forewarned is forearmed. You obviously care enough to do the right thing when the time comes.
A man's got to know his limitations.
-Dirty Harry
I live by these words.
Thanks for being such a class act.
I think I could see the tail wheel swivel slightly before contacting the ground.
Thanks Juan, great reporting and analysis. Your background and experience is most helpful.
IM NOT A PILOT IN ANY WAY/SHAPE/FORM but I do have a passion for older historic civil aviation - I really appreciate your channel for all you do in support of aviation and I feel your knowledge and experience is second to none so for me - you are my 'go-to-guru' when I want to know what really happened. Thank you so very much for sharing this
I got some photos of this beauty back in 2010 at the Wings Over Atlanta Airshow. Hate to see this, but glad all aboard survived.
Fortunately it's a lesson that hasn't cost more than anyone can give. Just pain, suffering and money, all can be overcome unlike the 15th.
These aircraft are beautiful but they do extract penalties for errors.
Hope all involved are repaired to full health soon.
Thanks, Juan, for these quick updates and fleshing out of the situation.
Thank you Captain Brown for this presentation of what we know so far on the incident. Glad to know there were no fatalities.
I am so thankful all three will recover. Sad to loose such a beautiful airframe, but perhaps it can be saved. Dan's report will be interesting to watch, for sure.
ALSO, when you are at higher speeds and try to pull the tail down too fast, you increase angle of attack too soon and too much lift will get the mains "LIGHT" reducing the weight on the mains, reducing the effectiveness of the brakes and directional control. Always let the tail settle on it's on! "DO NOT ask me how I know!" ha!
If you look at old videos, they stand on the thing until it almost falls straight down as an after-thought. Looks scary, but the plane won't actually flip over. But this looked like a pretty well executed landing with very little bounce. They either forgot to lock the thing ( easy to verify from the lever position ) or something snapped.
I’m so thankful no fatalities
I accidentally ran across Dan's video before seeing your report. I'm exercising the same professionalism in this response that you use in your videos. I also much prefer the synopsis you have put forth than the production I saw elsewhere. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for another interesting video!
Glad to hear all onboard the Lockheed 12A will be okay. It looked like a a great plane.
I'm a former railroad employee. One of my duties was to be a railroad equipment operations pilot (or instructor as a better term.)
I was the Acting Motorman Pilot Instructor for the Willamette Shore Trolley (WST) in Portland, Oregon, operating a pair of 1991 built Replica Council Crest Vintage Trolley cars.
Being a Motorman is a huge responsibility, operating a 50,000 lb trolley car!
Every time I went out to instruct new Motormen, I always went through our instructor's checklists, including the emergency situation checklist.
All Motormen I tested knew that if something went wrong, I taught them how to evaluate the problem and make a decision, especially if it was a mechanical or electrical problem, which could have potentially led to a fire risk.
However, you can't plan for what might happen. That was another talking point, was that things happen, and to make the best informed decision with what they had to work with at the present moment.
I was very safety minded, unlike some of our other Motormen Pilot Instructors.
Everything I taught our Motormen all came down to one thing: safety, which included another key item: ALWAYS follow the checklists! The checklists are there for a reason!
I instructed several Motormen. After that, I was promoted to Acting Assistant General Manager of WST before I stepped down to take a job outside of railroading.
Prayers for all aboard the aircraft for a speedy recovery. Thanks Juan brown for this great report.
Glad you are home,safe'n sound..TY always Juan ...from Denmark
You're not done flying a tail dragger until it's tied dwn.
*you're
What a beautiful aircraft she was 😍
Is. Or at least it looks very repairable for me.
@@EneTheGene I hope so
@@EneTheGene im not sure, that one pic of the tree in the middle of the cockpit looks bad, unless it's just a camera angle making it look like that.
Very good job on the polishing but I'm pretty sure that's not going to get fixed
Yes in my opinion these should be put in museums so that future generations will be able to see them too 😠
Excellent review as always. So thankful all will recover.
Sad to hear about this. I knew the previous owner and he spent many years restoring it. He had us add paint to finish the restoration and the plane was used in the movie Amelia. I hope the passengers survive their injuries and make a full recovery.
The NTSB is already salivating in anticipation of their interview with Dan
Many thanks to the first responders for a successful airlift. Looking at the photo of the crash it's amazing all survived. I wonder if the pilots had only lap belts in the aircraft. Shoulder harnesses were the first thing I did after I bought my Cessna 140.
*_"Shoulder harnesses were the first thing I did after I bought my Cessna 140."_*
As someone that suffered facial fractures in a crash nearly 25 years ago, I'd say that was a good idea!
Glad all are ok. This is the second incident I know of with Dan on board. Scary. Thanks for the update.
So much for the electronic checklist. Glad they're ok!
Glad all are above ground. Dang it Dan.... get well sir.
Dan..met you in old Zeeland MI. With rotating disc prop video...lucky bugger. Get well sir. You and Juan have more people to save. I thought every 3 pilot knew groundloop gremlins live in the F.B.O.,s office bushes waiting for a taildragger.
I believe that’s the one I saw at Triple Tree last year. Glad all are ok.
Wow. Thanks, Juan. Take care, be safe.
Im glad they are all going to be fine. Thanks for the video JB. Cant wait to hear from DG what happened. Again just glad they are all going to be ok.
I hope an influencer doesn't take the tailwheel locking lever (before the investigators arrive) and make a video about it.
If you watch the landing. The tail landing gear wobbles significantly like it wasn't locked.
Great report. Thanks for the physics lesson regarding the CG on tail draggers.
Juan, your knowledge of these old aircraft is amazing!
Amazingly wrong…..
Was the tail wheel not locked, or did the lock pin simply break? In slow motion, it looks like the first impact of the tail wheel it had a decent amount of side load, potentially enough to break the locking pin. Should be fairly easy for the NTSB to determine quickly. Not placing bets on which one it was, but it's pretty obviously the cause of the accident.
In a former life, I was a UH-60 crew chief and it seemed every pilot with any amount of experience in the bird had broken at least one tail wheel locking pin in their career. I got to issue a few "necklaces" myself after replacing them.
Yes very possible, when I flew Beech 18's I had one break and another jump out of locked on a bumpy grass field.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. It seemed a bit crazy that a flight to demonstrate the importance of following checklists would crash because they didn't follow the checklist.
I doubt the side loads were that big. The tail came down nice and straight and it was on grass. It did come down a little hard but that should put side loads on it. Unless the pin was already substantially fatigued.
@@crissd8283 All it takes is a quick jolt on a side loaded roll out
@@user-jq2rf4nf3o It looks like a good smooth landing with no real side loads on grass. If you can break the pin with this landing, they would break all the time when flying into paved runways. It could be the pin already had a fatigue crack and this finished it off, but I have a hard time believing a good pin would break that easy.
Appears that landing the 12A is rather "scientific" as compared to most newer airplanes.......the flying ain't over until the beast is parked.
I would say it’s more “art” than science
That's true of all taildraggers, and I'd go so far as to say all powered machines (cars, boats included).
My older instructors always said "The flights not over till your at the bar, on your second round" never stop flying the plane.
@@paradoxicalcat7173 with over 6000 hrs of tailwheel time, I agree 100%
They parked it into a tree. Flight over.....😮
Thanks Juan. Wow , didn’t expect that last part. 👍
Good Day Juan. Good to hear that all survived. Sad Loss. Thank You & Best Regards.
As a huge fan of the Lockheed 12A, I'm saddened by the loss of these two magnificent aircraft. I hope those involved have a speedy recovery.
There is another Lockheed 12A owned by the Parras Brothers in the Bay Area. Could you do a follow up to show the airplane and the procedures for operating this aircraft. The Lockheed 12A is a rare airplane, I'd hate to see another one lost. It's a complex aircraft. Since this was a "Shakedown" flight, I wonder if there was another issue with the gear. It did appear the tailwheel was unlocked. Damage was extensive, but it does appear it could be rebuilt. I hope so.😢
As bad as it looks, if the damage was mostly contained forward of the wings, it's likely rebuildable. With a lot of work, of course. Probably won't see it flying again for a decade.
@@josephoberlander I've seen less restored back into a flying aircraft. I hope photos of the airplane gets outta that tree. Glad everyone ,I'll be ok. As much as I love airplanes; People matter more.
Incredibly lucky. Shame to lose a vintage bird but I’m glad everyone lived.
Wow..i can't stop saying wow...Gryder on board just blows my mind!
Don’t get on the brakes. Let it roll out until the end of the runway. The locking tailwheel keeps the plane straight even when gently applying one brake. My Pitts Special S1S had the locking Haigh tailwheel. It was nearly impossible to control at high speeds unlocked. Delmar Benjamin always said about his Gee Bee R2 that "if he loses his brakes, he loses his airplane".
What a shame, such a pretty ✈️. Godspeed to a quick recovery to all
I am very impressed with your professional analysis including all available information. I appreciate both your channels and your professionalism here. I've begun incorporating into a research UAS program lessons learned from full scale aviation accidents covered by various creators such as yourself and Dan. Be safe.
Thanks Juan for another brilliant report and great to hear All 3 are going to be ok.
You and Dan are so valuable to aviation and make us all fly safer
Good work Juan, Thank you Sir.😊
The first thing I noticed coincidentally when I happened to see the footage of the landing earlier in the day, was the tail wheel castering upon landing. It can be seen doing this at the 14-15 second mark as soon as the tail wheel touches down.
Or the locking pin broke as someone mentioned here, a possibility on an older aircraft. Did the left brake bind as gentle pressure was applied? Let's see if the checklist was done correctly, there should be a consistent story with 3 in the cockpit, glad there were no fatalities, the initial news photos looked bad.
@@bernieschiff5919 A real possibility. Although, I believe if the pin broke on tail wheel touchdown, the wheel would have remained straight, then castered. Whereas the tail wheel started to caster immediately even though it had barely touched yet.
The tail wheel pin can break as it touches down once it snaps you will almost immediately get the shimmy it can feel vary violent
It was definitely not locked, it’s a simple mistake any human could make. A very gentle landing on a very well maintained aircraft. I could see how someone with an ego to protect could try to use a broken pin as a blame barrier though
Glad dans ok.. hey i like you both..idc about all the other drama, life is more significant than tiffs.. y'all are both older guys, and i respect ya both knowledge is key and in y'all's case its invaluable.. ✌️🇺🇸
You’re right, Juan deserves a lot of respect.
@@RetreadPhoto
Both of them do.!!!!!
I do respect juan. And dan, and hoover from pilot debrief..and flywire.. i respect all of them..
Thanks for the good report, Juan...
Non-pilot here. So glad everyone seems to be doing all right. Never 'OK' after such an experience. The people were, and are, the most important thing but, now that we have that out of the way...... Can the airframe be rebuilt? Not enough of these glorious birds left in the world.
We had a 12A in our hangar at Moorabbin airport (VH-ASV) which we traded for a second Beech 18. (VH-FIE joining VH-FID). My first tailwheel landing was in the 18 > FID.
I frightend Capt George Sprigg by NOT 'pinning' it from a skip, but doing a tricycle recovery.....a three pointer. I didn't understand what the problem was........ until I learnt just how ineffective those ruders were when down low and blanked. Great times from the 60s.......
Gryder must have 9 lives. He seems to crash about once a year in mysterious circumstances, whether he's flying or being a passenger..
Just don't schedule a flight with Gryder and Jack Roush together...lol
Should have lost his license when he was arrested because of a flying incident. (Google. It was on the news and paper)
Look at the very interesting photo at 14:42
It appears the the tree they hit went right between the two pilots.
Now ... that's good ground piloting.
@@eddylauterback1312 should have lost his license when he was found guilty of defamation and ordered to pay 1mio damages. (has he paid yet?)
Yeah I've noticed that. It's quite ironic. I don't ever want to be on a plane with him.
Great job! Love your thorough debrief
Hi Juan, I met you at Benton KS. I got to fly that plane on July 17, 2020. She flew beautifully!
I've flown a Cessna 140 and it takes a lot of right rudder to keep it straight.
Great to see the professionalism in your coverage in Dan's accident. Life can change in an instant. Thank you for your video Juan!!!
I vote for a mechanical failure on the tailwheel lock. Great analytical exam of the situation. Hoping for full recoveries for all.
Are you an MLB ump?😂
Clearly unlocked bro
@@jameshuggins7320 yeah there's no way the pin could have sheared or any mechanical issue with the tail locking mechanism.....impossible bro
Tail wheel lock system could have broken or not set to lock position , but it does act a bit
Strange on tail touch down before t-wheel spins around like a button on a shithouse door .
Here come the trees ! 🌲 Such a cool aircraft ! I see the owner pilot loves that machine --
Sure glad these fellas lived thru the crash - not sure about speed at time of impact ?
@@bobwilson758 I’m voting Dan was on the controls trying to show him a thing or two.
@@jameshuggins7320 well. no. This is clear as mud.
Cool video , it was good to see you explain all the explanations of what could have happened , the clip at the end showed it all though . Glad all three are going to be fine .
PROBABLE CAUSE: DAN GRYDER
😂🤣😂🤣
You win the internet today. 😆
I see what you did there 😂
Now that deserves a T shirt!
Bravo!!! May everything but his ability to speak recover well!
Open your mind and understand that locking the wheel is on the list and just like getting the gear down. Cable broke or other linkage issues. Have time it these and other old ac. Opinion--you need room and not grass. You need breaking on a hard surface when things go wrong on the ground. Sad for Dan but it’s not very likely that they forgot to lock. Old ac have issues. You need room. Not only length but width and paved.