A positive outcome would be more people willing to extend the warranty if it was more consumer friendly. I didn't extend my warranty b/c of the terms back in 2019.
I can see the cost of the warranty going up if they see the profit margin shrinking due to payouts. The extended warranty has always been about profit, they will continue to make it by having us foot the new cost structure
Haha I’m crying, if you recall two months ago. I had a stage 2 with all SE parts. I guess I should have waited, but like everything this government does it’s way late for me. Damn! Knowing I left so much performance by following the warranty. I’m not a rich guy, unfortunately I can’t have everything re-done with the new products I would have chosen. Anyway I’m happy with my bike, wish I could have a do over. Thanks for letting me vent😎
i agree. they told me it had to fail before they would warrant even though they knew it was substandard. ugggggh. i just went ahead and replaced it with me paying for it. not happy but i wanted to get it behind me.
@@robertlumsden942 that's such a poor response from Harley. My bike currently has 5K on it and Harley would have made more money had they just changed the oil pump for me. I would have upgraded the cam and other components while they had my bike. so much for them doing the right thing. Hoping to make a decision on a cam this fall and get the pump done at the same time.
My scoot is a 2002 no warranty. I have completed a stage 2 with a 2into1 pipe. I have to say you were so correct my TC 88. has woken-up. Very snappy fierce pulling. 07 16 22 500mi oil change push rod adjustment. Going ahead and doing a 3 hole oil change. The shop wanted me to choose the SS 510 cam I did I only wish it's powerband came on sooner. The shop is called Gearheads in Michigan city I.N. The shop is not much to look at however the owner Drew is a master at his craft I am so lucky this shop is only 1.7mi from my house. P.S. Thanks for the vids.
$140 dollar for labor NOT including an oil change, when I pay $30 dollars for an F150 oil change, $25 dollars for wife's Honda oil change. Yeah EFF HD!
Harley has always wanted to write their own rules. They and every other motorcycle manufacturer make a motor vehicle sold for transportation use on public highways, so they should be held to the same warranty standards as any other motor vehicle. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. limit warranty claims when it comes to aftermarket performance add-ons and modifications. As manufactured and delivered by a factory authorized dealer, they must also make sure their vehicle adheres to EPA, NTSB, and other Gov't agency standards. Many aftermarket items commonly sold to and used by Harley enthusiasts do in fact violate these standards. Some of course do not. Whether or not these items are the direct cause of failure is a debate for highly paid lawyers and their "expert witnesses" in a court of law. And we know who can afford better experts. I'm sure you have seen motorcycles still under warranty that failed due to being worked on by someone who should never have tools in their hands while anywhere near a motorcycle.
Harley shot themselves in the foot in terms of me buying a new bike for the first time. They close my local dealership because they want an image that excludes smaller dealerships, the nearest dealership is an hour away, and I like to customize. I’ll stick my what I have and my local mechanic for the jobs out of my scope of knowledge and expertise.
Hey I’d like to see something you do something on this in the Supreme Court just come out and tell The EPA something. Something about the PA couldn’t tell something about what to do or put restrictions or something like that I think maybe to do with Harley or something like that I don’t know that would be something to find out about if it affects all of us where they’re forcing Harley to do EPA compliant this and that
I gotta agree with Gixxer. I've worked at 2 dealerships and I wasn't happy with Harley's business practices. Sometimes it seemed like they treated their dealers as a necessary evil. Hope something good comes from this.
I think a company has the right to protect themselves during the warranty period and considering HD have an extensive aftermarket catalogue I think it's fair that they can determine what they will and won't fix while the bike is under warranty. The mechanic I used when I had a HD had a reputation as being a genius when the fact is he spent most of his time fitting either stock HD parts or mild Screaming Eagle part's because people just did plain stupid things to their bikes themselves then expected the dealer's to fix their foul up's... I had this mechanic and a dealership tell me come talk to us before you do any mod's.
Right there with ya Gixxer. When I bought my 2020 Street Glide they flat out told me all service and parts must be done by Harley or bye bye warranty. 2 years now bike is all stock still and I have 2 more years of ESP. I love Harley but their business practices have really soured me from buying anything more from Harley. Hope this gets straightened out to our advantage
This might motivate Harley to build better parts, and make Screamin Eagle more competitive, reliable and sought after. On the downside the prices may go up on new bikes to offset the surge in warranty repairs. Just a thought. Another great video!
I don't feel bad for them because they got away with not recalling A LOT of things that should have been recalled and fixed. At the very least they should have given the affected customers the parts to fix the problem instead of making them buy them. I guess the thing that left the deepest impression on me is the wobbly cranks and the elimination of the Timken bearing along with the loosening of tolerances so they could avoid responsibility. THAT should have never gotten out the door. They also refused to add extra chassis stabilizers to the Dyna, refusing to acknowledge the death wobble, yet when they started the rubbermount Sportsters they included the proper stabilizers stock.
I am sick of Harley Davidson, They wanted 175.00 to mount a tire I was buying from them even after I handed them the wheel off the bike, Ended up buying the same model tire from a Kawasaki dealer and they put it on the wheel and balanced it for 25.00
They don’t care about their customers at all they think we’ll were Harley Davidson you’ll just buy another I know one thing I’ll never buy another one from a HD dealership all they do is talk in circles intil your warranty is up
Because my pegs were worn on my Harley, they said I was racing and wouldn't use my warranty. Harleys need a warranty, theyre strait trash if you actually ride them.
The issue isn’t the MOCO, it’s the individual dealer abuse on any issues. You still cannot change the tune on the bike without voiding the warranty. This is true for and all new cars, trucks, and motorcycles.
I'm not sure how long a warranty is on a new bike but I bought a 2 year warranty from the dealer when I bought my 14 street glide and covered anything drivetrain and it was tuned with a dynojet tuner. I think it has a stage two on it. (Unconfirmed). So to get any warranty voiding work done by said dealer you would have to buy their extended warranty.
Exactly too many people think now that HD is going to pay for their Woods cam and Powervision tuner! Lmao! Buy a new Chevy truck and put a Comp Cams race cam in it and see what kinda warranty you have!
@@jamesstafford62 but the new Chevy doesn’t need that, because unlike most stock Harleys, it makes decent power that is comparable to its competitors straight from the showroom floor without needing money dumped into it
While I have no interest in late model Harley Davidsons (I am a carburetor guy through and through) so I will obviously never own a H-D with a warranty. I do belong to a couple of H-D forums, and what I found out is that the H-D Screamin Eagle tuner is practically worthless, and so are many aftermarket tuners. Any tuner that uses the stock narrow band O2 sensors is simply not going to get the air/fuel mixture rich enough to prevent the engine from melting down if you put aftermarket pipes and an air cleaner on it. It will still be in the 14.1 range, and you need to get it all the way down into the 12.1 range for pipes and an air cleaner. Many tend to favor the ThunderMax system, which both completely replaces the oem ECU, but also replaces the stock narrow band O2 sensors with wide band O2 sensors. Obviously the EPA is not going to like that, and H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA. That has been a big part of them voiding warranties on bikes that were set up with non H-D fuel system parts. There are a couple of independent Harley shops in my area that I would absolutely trust over any dealer. I had one of my Sportsters worked on by one of them once (it was over 10 years old, so a dealer wouldn't touch it anyway) and was completely satisfied. I can see where replacing some parts (ESPECIALLY Chinese made parts) but also non stock parts like cams, or valve train parts, or a new top end that increases the displacement beyond what the engine was designed to handle could damage an engine, and that damage should be on the customer. You've basically rebuilt the engine not only with non H-D parts, but parts that do not meet H-D specs. That is not H-Ds fault. As far as grips, or any cosmetic part or non mechanical part, like a seat, sissy bar, handlebars, and pretty much any kind of accessories, none of those are going to affect the mechanical condition of the bike. As long as you use oil and filters approved by H-D, that shouldn't be a problem either. I have never used H-D oil, but I do use 20w50 oil that is approved by H-D. I typically use K&N filters, because they have a hex on them that you can get a socket on. Now, there can be issues with oil and filters. If you use 0w0 oil and a Fram filter, you will likely destroy your engine. I have seen a couple of car engines destroyed by Fram filters. But the fact is, H-D no longer makes Harleys anymore. You HAVE to install an aftermarket exhaust system to even get the Harley sound out of them. What good is an H-D that does not make the Harley sound? I also include the Harley feel, and the M8 engine lacks any feel at all. Sadly not much you can do about that. But people have been putting aftermarket exhausts (and back in the good old days, aftermarket carburetors) on their bikes forever. My 1989 FXR Low Rider has an S&S Super E carburetor and air cleaner. Very common for that era bike. The modern way is to use tuners and replace some parts of the fuel system (like the O2 sensors) to get a proper air/fuel mixture, that the bike should have come from the factory with.
People are reading way to much into this lmao! You can’t build a complete S&S drag engine and think HD is going to pay you for it then warranty it when it blows up! You can’t pull the cam out of your 2022 Streetglide and replace it with a Zippers or Woods just because you want more power! THE ONLY tuner you can use is the Screaming Eagle EPA legal one Period! If you do modify your engine it will void the Engine but not the WHOLE warranty ! Some shady dealers used the EPA lawsuit to void the whole warranty if engine mods were done, just because you change cams doesn’t mean they could deny a paint or radio problem ! It’s the same rules the car companies have to go by and many HD dealers did not follow the rules! You can buy a new Chevy and get every service done at Jiffy Lube as long as you keep receipts and use the correct grade oil and a OEM equivalent filter! Same with HD now they have to follow the rules like they should have all along!!!
Hell I was told I had to do my 1000 mile service by dealer or warranty is out the window. I definitely think that this is a step in right direction. I really do like the bikes and not so much their business practices
There are a lot of manufacturers have similar warranty language. Try doing your own work or use aftermarket parts on John Deere equipment! Automotive dealers would laugh you out of the building.
Hey my 2014 dyna is flat out reliable af, buuuut that may be because my ass has put so much time money and effort and have touched damn near every bolt on it
@@keepriding9722 idk if I’ve ever had to push start mine. Wouldn’t know if it worked or not. If I have tried it’s been a long ass time and I put a new high cca battery in it when I did my build and mechanical compression releases
Biden is supporting China instead of America with his recent trade policies also . My Harley stock just tanked !!!- I don’t use their oil either. I use Mobil one or valvoline syn. Cylinders after 50000 mi . No wear - Well ; HD go figure 😁 ✊🏻👍👌
I think by forcing Harley-Davidson to warranty tuners and parts that they do not produce that this will drive up the cost of motorcycles. The increased cost will be attributed to Harley-Davidson needing to validate the functionality of parts that they do not produce. Just my opinion.
No one is forcing them to warranty the work. It's merely can't void my warranty for a wheel bearing because I put on Roland sands grips. They have to prove the tuner caused the problem.
@@ihatesjws1188 I thought that it already works that way. If you put a non Harley-Davidson approved tuner on your bike it only voids the engine’s warranty but not the rest of the bike. Maybe I am mistaken.
@@bradwilliams4921 that's been the problem this whole time. Harley was voiding the whole thing because you put on any after market parts. That's why people where angry in certain parts of the states.
Harley wouldnt do anything on my bike, not even an oil change, My bike is an 02 fatboy with less than 10k miles, but they said they can only work on 03 and newer, P.s. my bike is clean, no rust no corrosion, no frozen bolts.
The Dealerships are privately owned. Each dealership can choose what they want to work on. My local Dealership will work on my 2012 StreetGlide. I recently bought a 2000 FXDWG with 22,000 miles on it. It's a real creampuff. I haven't needed to take it to the Dealer yet, so I don't know if they'll work on it.
@@benscratchin8014 Well after denying my service request they tried to sell me a bike, I said why would i by a bike from you, If you dont trust youur products then why should I....lol
My friend is a master mechanic for BMW they said they won't touch vehicles older than 10 years old due to dry rot. There liable is a plastic wire or connection brakes. So they would rather dave the head ache and work on cars 10 years and newer.
When I bought Japanese motorcycles I didn't care if they had a warranty or not because they were always good reliable motorcycles and lasted till the day that they died. I never had any warranty dealings because I never had any mechanical problems within the warranty. Generally I didn't have problems with my Japanese motorcycles until they were over 10 years old with a quarter million miles on them. I can get parts for an 80-year-old British bike but I can't get parts for a 20-year-old Japanese bike what's up with that? They don't sell parts because they want you to buy a new motorcycle but Japanese motorcycles are not $1,000 like they were what I was growing up. They are ridiculously expensive now just like everything else is.
because no one wants to fix a 20 year old bike when you can just buy a new one for 3 grand 😂😂😂 Harley-Davidson is a different story the old ones holt their value and very well.
@@coopermeikle3856 I want to know what kind of brand new motorcycle you can get for $3,000? And Harley-Davidsons do not hold their value at all that is a big m y t h in order to justify overpricing at the beginning of the purchase as well as overpriced accessories and overpriced warranties everything with Harley-Davidson is overpriced and undervalue. You can buy a beautiful Evolution dresser that cost $16,000 and you can buy it for 30 cents on the dollar. I know six people who have done that just in the local area alone.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 yeah because no one wants an evolution dresser 🤣 but the evolution softails are a different story. You can't find those for less than 5-7 grand in my area. They were 7-10 new. Just one of my many experiences.
@@coopermeikle3856 you couldn't get a big twin 472 10 brand-new in the old days you could get a Sportster for that kind of money in the 90s I know cuz I bought my Sportster. When I bought my house in 1993 I paid the same as a big Harley dresser $16,000 if I bought a Harley dresser it would be $5,000 and they have super low mileage on them because people did not ride them except to go to bike night and play vroom vroom on bike night. My house is now worth 75,000 and is surrounded by million dollar condos smaller than my house I made the right choice
Harleys bent over and taking it in holes they didn't know they have. On one hand, I'm glad. On the other, I'm nervous, because Harley isn't doing the greatest in the first place, now this stuff. Yeah Harley shouldn't force us to use Harley junk, but Harley also shouldn't go bankrupt and fold.
HD didn't start this "right to repair" thing. It was John Deere and Apple. But in the bike area HD is the worst. If I was a dealer it would be any of the big J's, and if I wanted to expand it would be with Korean or Chinese bikes. So I could sleep at night.
Back in 2017 I bought a used 2016 FLSTN..Harley charged me like 2500 bucks for a aervice contract..Only when they spilled break fluid on my fender of my GOLD HARD CANDY CUSTOM paint job to the tune of 1500 bucks to repair they ghosted me..Tucson Harley Davidson sucks iron 883 Ball bearings..
Too few younger cyclists see Harley as an option. T he company can't afford to offend the customers it has. The corp heads better wake up or Harley will go the way of the Henderson,
Love the video and curious what Harleys re-written warranty looks like What if the re-written warranty is only good for six months and 5 thousand miles on all new bikes, as an example. Harley now provides a warranty, albeit a poor one , to satisfy the Government and they only need to say the consumer knew this before the purchase. Would the Government step in again or is it what it is?
I've never bought a motorcycle that had a warranty of any kind. The only failings of any kind happened long after any warranty would have expired, or were caused by some ''mechanic'' that should have his hands chopped off!
@@RealSuperRando my last bike I got an extended warranty, 16 years later and 75,000 miles I’ve been lucky enough to have never had a problem that would have been covered, of course the extra $1500 bucks it cost would have bought a really nice hat.
Back in Aug 2016, after negotiations, the EPA fined the MoCo $12M because Harley-Davidson violated the Clean Air Act by manufacturing and selling about 340,000 tuners, that allowed users (owners) to change how the motorcycle’s engine functions. Part of the penalty was for the MoCo to remove and destroy all the tuners that remained in the inventory and certify that all new tuners will be CARB Compliant (less capability of actually tuning the bike). Another part of the EPA penalty is that the MoCo is required to conduct tests on tuner-equipped motorcycles and provide the results to EPA to guarantee that their motorcycles remain in compliance with EPA certification requirements for emissions. We’ve all heard of the ‘not EPA compliant’ ‘Warranty void’ once a modified bike is plugged in at the dealership. It’s the EPA that’s causing the ass pain. The issue is that once your bike is reported, you’re screwed, let’s say you put a new header to get the catalytic (blast furnace) converter off your passengers foot and then tune the bike with a power commander or other non MoCo tuner and as a unrelated incident, one day, your transmission or clutch needs repair. We all know that a header replacement will not cause harm to other driveline components. However, the EPA will not allow the MoCo to make the repairs under warranty. Oddly enough, this seems to be in direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The tuning thing is how the EPA is punishing the consumer. It’s interesting that the FTC is involved. Fascinating to watch one federal agency contradict another. HD customers are caught in the middle. I bet the MoCo warranties will become less draconian. But I also bet that the EPA will prevail over the FTC… I.e. if you use a non CARB compliant tuner, they will not permit the manufacturer to warranty any engine related problems. It’s not realistic for the EPA to pursue individuals, but by using the manufacturers, it’s an endeavor the EPA is capable of.
One of my bikes is a 2014 Dyna Wide Glide, it had the old Tuner on it (orange one) and i recently took the bike in for some work and it had to be retuned, when i picked up the bike they handed me my orange one and a black one and told me they are not charging me for the black one but i cannot use the orange one anymore. WTF. I am not blaming Harley, they are just following the stupid rules set out by the EPA, now if i want i retuned back to the orange one then i have to take to another shop but i have ti pay to have it retuned. EPA can kiss my ass! I also have a 2009 Rocker C and it is tuned with the orange one also. I have a 2021 Street Glide also and that is tuned with the black one which is fine, but why are they changing over the one that were tuned previously, its just costing the customer more money to switch it back or switch tuners. EPA is just a black hole tat pretends like they are doing something for the customer but they are just a pain in the ass.
Us farmers have been going through this same warranty issue with John Deere for years, law suit after law suit. Deere feels that after I pay a quarter of a million dollars for a combine I should not have the right to work on it myself. The Fed's have stepped in and laid down the law to them but they are still thumbing their nose at the Fed's and I'm sure you will see Harley do the same thing. I've been riding Harley's for fifty two years and can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a Harley dealer. And most certainly never bought a bike from a dealer. They can kiss my ass, If I can't fix it then I'll park it in a corner of the barn and buy another one.
I don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible for the motor or drivetrain once any aftermarket power adder is installed. I also don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible after an aftermarket tuner has been installed because technically all of those tuners are not EPA compliant. Also if the bike has been tuned by an independent with an aftermarket tuner and the motor fails H-D again will not be held responsible. Lets face it, none of these aftermarket horse power adders will work if an aftermarket tuner cannot be installed to take the bike out of EPA mandated emissions so all of this work is technically illegal from a government standpoint. If you want proof of everything I am saying just look at what has been going on with the diesel pickup truck and aftermarket parts and tuner industry in that sector. I think this could really backfire on all of the consumers of the aftermarket speed shop industry for H-D products as now they may be going under a giant magnifying glass and the government may come down hard on the industry. Take a look at the huge fines leveled on independent diesel shops who were doing exactly the same thing that the aftermarket bike shops are doing now. This may not end up being a good thing at all.
I’ve never got caught up in the hype of buying a new Harley and then dumping a small fortune in to be in the crowd. To me this is foolish. I ride older Harleys and purchased a factory service manual for them and save thousands. I’ve never wanted to be part of the “in” crowd. Fuck the “in” crowd as far as that goes!
hey i saw some vids from 2 years ago about the 883 and it’s really helped a lot with choosing aftermarket parts and where I wanna go and what I wanna make for my goals for this bike so i just wanted to say thank you for making these videos and keep up the good work cuz i’m about to pull the trigger in buy 2022 883
The FTC says Harley has to allow third party parts and maintenance. The EPA demands that no changes can be done to Harley Davidson motorcycles that may change the emissions profile. The FTC and EPA demands are in conflict. Harley Davidson is stuck in the middle. The customers end up suffering over it.
I have always thought that if you put on a new FI system, then Harley wouldn't warranty the fuel system or intake. If you put on a new ignition system, then any system related to that ignition system would no longer be under warranty. If you put on a big bore engine kit by S & S, then say goodbye to the warranty on the engine...I always wondered about smaller components like cams and air cleaners etc.... I just don't like the idea of taking your bike in to the dealer to flash the bikes memory for stereo upgrades etc....
Hello, Question - Do you know if the new warranty rules Harley must follow carry over to third party warranty companies? I am buying a used 2017 CVO Limited, and was ready to purchase a warranty from Discount ESP. $1,800 for 3 years. Then as I was reading through the contract, and seeing the exclusions, and requirements to get a repair done I started questioning if this was a good idea. I already know about a few of the issues I may need to address like the oil pump, and oil transfer, and it looks like these would be excluded if they don’t actually cause a failure. I was mainly concerned with getting all the electronics, and electrical items covered. What’s your opinion? Would it be smarter just to fix the items that fail myself, and save the money, or buy an esp?
The third party warranty companies are iffy and dealers may or may not honor them for several reasons. Depending on their protocol (warranty company) you drop your bike off for repair and you may have to pay the service department up front and hope the warranty company reimburses you. I would save my money for if you ever have a major failure.
HD should have been out if business a long time ago after the AMF era. Other bikes don't fall apart or blow up like a HD's.There are great bike companies out there that bend over backwards for there customers .This produces new and repeat business. I've been asked many times " If HD flew a plane..would you fly in it?" NOPE!
My question is i@ will any of this new info going to be retroactive? I have a 2018 RG Cvo. I started having sumping issues with about 6 months left on the factory warranty. MOCO had not come out with the upgrade for the oil pump so I purchased the S & S pump and cam plate, upgraded the cam since they were going in the chest, and added a Power Vision tuner all bought and installed by the dealership. Needless to say MOCO voided what was left of the power train warranty.
That's a question I was wondering too, cause with the Super Tuner they had to buy all them back regardless of when you purchased. So really kind of wondering if they will go back several years on the warranties.
Is there a compilation of the life expectancy of stock Harley Davidson parts? For instance how long do wheel bearings last, when will the drive belt self destruct? When will the transmission wear out. I know there are wear limits and suggested replacement conditions, but, has Harley or anyone done a long term wear and destructive testing?
working on 2 of my older harleys atm guy at the harley dealership said "you should just trade them in for a new one with a warranty" thing is what warranty 😂 plus I like working on.my motorcycle minus the money part.
FP3 for me. Thanks bro for all your vids. 👊 Also, I bought my H.D. IRON 1200 2 + years ago, for under 10k, now those are going from 12,900 at my dealership, which I don't go to because I have a FP3 and Amazon. 😊
@@grayghost1423 heck yeah, got shark road slip ons on mine, think they were 199$ amazon lol waiting for lowbrow customs to finish my exhaust, shotgun exhaust.
so glad you covered this topic! i left a comment a couple weeks ago asking if your thoughts. again, glad to see you let others know about this that might not have known about this.
What many Harley dealers were doing is called steering. That is illegal under Federal and most State laws. This has been coming for a long time. The dealers that actually value their customers have been doing this correct from the start and won’t be affected. Those that weren’t putting their customers first, they are in for a rude awakening and will need to adjust their own business practices.
What about Dealers that install Non-Screaming Eagle parts (Exhaust) on new bikes and will cover, themselves. Then when away from that dealer, and something goes wrong. Will the other Dealer be required to cover repairs? 🏍💨🏍💨
HD is putting themselves 10 feet under....day by day by day. Ooooooooh....by day. They need to learn from HONDA or Yamaha. What a joke. Backwards company. Keep the bike and the company. Greedy HD !!!!!!!!!!!!
GixxerFoo 😂😂😂 Love how you think it's expensive to purchase a new Sportster in 🇺🇸😂 You need a minimum of $20,000 for a Sportster here in Australia....🤔🤔 & $49,990 for a LiveWire 😂😂😂 Living the FUCKING Dream ❗ Safe travels 🙏❣️ 💪🇦🇺💪
Since you broached the subject of warranty, what about the extended warranty? If you purchase 3 additional years, they consider that a 5 year warranty. Even though it doesn’t do anything ine first two years. So if you cancel it after in the first year after the factory warranty, they consider that 3 years of a 5 year warranty and will only give you your 2/5th of your money back. Not 2/3rds like it really should be. What a ripoff.
Stick a fork in the Motor Company They're DONE !!!!!! Expensive unreliable products with NO dealer support and a HUGE price tag. Expensive JUNK purchase at your own risk. Former owner former stockholder .
Its only fair. If an owner puts a very FU'd tune on his hopped up Road Glide and the motor burns up a piston, the local dealer and the Motor Company should decline to repair at no cost.
I purchased my new Heritage 114 in 2021. I had a Stage 1 upgrade with Rinehart slip on mufflers and their Screaming Eagle Tune. I asked recently to have a Stage 2 done this Spring. They were pushing The Screaming Eagle Cam, and I said no, that was crap. I wanted an S & S 475C Cam and a Dynojet Power Vision Tune. Thanks to GixxerFoo by the way for helping me make that decision (I really want that loping idle!). They said this would void my warranty. I then said that was prohibited by The FTC. Two weeks later, the dealer answered, "Well it won't void your warranty, but your bike will then exceed EPA specs. We strongly suggest you wait until the warranty expires and we will be happy to install the S & S upgrade this winter. I don't care for the way they initially tried to mislead me. I have a local Harley mechanic that will do the work, for a much more reasonable price.
🛑🛑 Gix….Don’t forget, even though Harley Lost On This One…..they sold a Ton of Screaming Eagle Parts and billed a Ton of Hours over this Unfair Warranty Practice. So Harley maybe Sad on The Outside, they are Smiling On The Inside from the Money they have already made. 🤷♂️💯 💰
In 1999 Harley created Custom Vehicle Operations, CVO, because people were pissed that as soon as they changed ANYTHING from factory Harley to aftermarket, it voided warranty. Custom Vehicle Operations created it's own custom aftermarket parts department. It started out as mostly chrome accessories, not higher performance parts. That is evident in the 2001 FXDWG2 Switchblade (of which I own the floor model from Denver dealership). From that came the entire Screaming Eagle line. Factory hotrods using factory aftermarket parts are CVO bikes. None of them would exist had this new law been an old law.
In 1976 I purchased a new FLH 1200. I was 19 years old working on an offshore oil platform. I had money, serious money. I paid cash for my Harley because they would not finance 19 year old me. Whoever built the engine didn't shim the crankshaft so the engine ate itself. When I trailered the bike to the dealership the mechanic said I should get a new engine under warranty. The engine was shipped to Harley Davidson for inspection. When the found out I had paid cash they then refused to replace the engine because the bike wasn't coming back on them. I talked to a lawyer and he told me it was Harley's decision if they made good on the warranty so basically I was screwed. Because of that I've never purchased or owned another Harley Davidson, and never will. Today I'm 66 years old and continue riding so imagine how many motorcycles I've purchased over the decades I've been riding that could have been new Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Why buy a 20-30,000$ bike that requires at least ten grand worth of upgrades just to get what you want? An that's just customizing things to your liking and getting the full potential out the stock setup. We ain't talking engine and performance upgrades either. That would be the next step 🙄🥺
THATS THE REASON you do not mess with your vehicle till its off warranty,EVERYONE used to be smart enough to know that,BUT these new bikers aren't that smart,its sad but the new crowd doen't seem to be smart enough to figure anything out now days...
So I hope that means they can't fuck me over a set of slip ons for my 2022 XL883N that are not EPA compliant, because I live in a state that motorcycles are EPA exempt. As far as who is to pay and fix, this battle was fought and won in the automobile industry back in the 1970's. So there is precedence that was set for sorting it out long ago I.E. Chevy can't fuck you out of your warranty because you installed Flowmaster mufflers on your Corvette.
A couple of questions: why should HD be responsible for damages caused by some yahoo getting their new bike “upgraded” by Joe shit the ragman which causes damages downstream? Why don’t you just wait out the 1 year manufacturer defect warranty and then purchase an extended warranty through a third party? NO WAY HD should be responsible for you destroying your bike by watching RUclips Bob who learned to work on his bike from RUclips Billy.
1930s technology with 1950s metallurgy delivering 40 reliable horsepower. But, no, Harley owners want 100 horsepower. What could go wrong. Buy a used Honda VTX1800. Harley saddlebags. Harley seat. Harley handlebars. Harley loud exhaust. Come on. I was just at a Harley dealer. They have 1/10th the bikes in stock that they had last year. Must of had 25 sales people on the floor . No idea when they were getting more. The dealer has a band playing every weekend. It's an event.
Don't be surprised if HD no longer offers a warranty beyond what comes with a new purchase. It's all about profit, if the table is tilted to their favor as it has been it's a product for sale, if the field is leveled for the consumer the cost will go up or they will simply no longer offer it.
I don’t know why companies try to nickel and dime customers on warranty claims. My dad was a salesman and then a sales manager for most of his life and I learned a lot from him. He believed in selling the customer a good product backed with great service. He would tell his salesmen that it takes at least 100 good sales to make up for 1 bad one as most people won’t say anything if they’re satisfied with a product, but if it doesn’t work as it should they’ll tell anyone and everyone that they see what they think about it. There used to be brand name products that you could count on for them and their warranty to stand behind their product, but that seems to be out of style in our society today. I bought my 2006 FXDWGI used with about 12k miles on it so fortunately I don’t have to have anything to do with Harley if I don’t choose to. Harley may also choose not to have anything to do with me and my over 16 year old bike as well so I’m thankful for aftermarket suppliers and independent shops (for work that I don’t decide to do myself). It says so much about a company when they go above and beyond what you expect on warranty service, but as we see with Harley the opposite also says volumes about a company as well.
If you want the warranty, then you have Harley performance parts installed by a qualified Harley mechanic. Like Toyota or other brands, Toyota wants TRD parts installed by Toyota techs. This isn't unreasonable; why should a company have to warranty damage caused by Uncle Jimbo's Git-R-Dun Garage? It is your property and you can do whatever you want to it but that doesn't mean companies have to pay for your dumb decisions.
Good friend if mine been riding a harley since 1975. Bought a 2005 screaming eagle V Rod and bike would not track straight. after 3 dealerships looking at it, discovered came from factory with bent swing arm. harley refused to cover it stating warranty had expired!!
The government is not are freind .Yer so wrong wait and see what happens in the future. All this crying about warranty will ruin it for every body. NO more none epi complaint parts. Like pipes and tunners. Everything will be epi complaint coming soon.
I'm not completely siding with HD, but I kind of get where they're coming from...Most aftermarket parts that owners install on HD's are performance related, as we all know, HD stock engines don't always see eye to eye with those parts...So, if I'm any vehicle manufacturer, I really don't want to be flooded with warranty claims that are most likely related to all this hi-performance rage...Yea, you want to buy A-market seats, grips, and aesthetic shit that's cool...But guys are throwing HP and torque at stock bikes, and then beating them with their smoke shows etc etc....
SOP on most manufacturers and brands during warranty. No aftermarket ex system. No Power Commander or ECU performance changes. Not rocket science. Wait till the warranty period expires - all bets are off - do what you want.
🤣 Love my EVO sportster, no way I would honor HD with the cash to buy a new bike. The practices have been crap for decades, and this FTC ruling isn't going to change that fact. I do hope those who do have a new HD get a proper warranty, instead of the shaft, but I'm thinking not too likely.
Thanks for sharing the good news!! Hang in there and pace yourself, my friend. You have to have priorities and I think most of us understand that. God bless y'all!!
And another, Saint Patricks day shindig at the dealership in Western NY, guy gets a door ticket prize for x amount off any accessories. He opts for an after market exhaust installed by them 1400$. A month and a half later he brings his street glide back in for NYS inspection... refused, they claim it has to be bone stock, sensors, decibel level etc...
90% of the guys I ride with have HDs. Watching the issues they deal with, many warranty and service related have kept me from buying one. I only buy what I'm able to wrench on.
I have bought three Harley Davidsons and I am about sick of them. They have sold out. They cater to these white collar people and Hollywood actors. ….totally forgot about the blue-collar people who kept them in business for decades. They make me sick. I’m also tired of the stupid interest rate and crooked salesman. Thinking about Indians now. They’re stupid cheesy ads with Hollywood actors pushing their motorcycles and clothing is embarrassing
Harley doesn't have to prove something like your S@S engine parts broke their transmission. You have to prove it didn't. And guess who pays for that fight. I'll never buy another new Harley again.
Do you see any unforeseen circumstances coming from the government making Harley-Davidson change their warranty practices?
The government never fixes anything when they get involved it’s usually worse
Yes, they will simply void the warranty on any modified product, meaning if you did any aftermarket mods you are SOL
A positive outcome would be more people willing to extend the warranty if it was more consumer friendly. I didn't extend my warranty b/c of the terms back in 2019.
I can see the cost of the warranty going up if they see the profit margin shrinking due to payouts. The extended warranty has always been about profit, they will continue to make it by having us foot the new cost structure
Haha I’m crying, if you recall two months ago. I had a stage 2 with all SE parts. I guess I should have waited, but like everything this government does it’s way late for me. Damn! Knowing I left so much performance by following the warranty. I’m not a rich guy, unfortunately I can’t have everything re-done with the new products I would have chosen. Anyway I’m happy with my bike, wish I could have a do over. Thanks for letting me vent😎
I would like to see a recall on the (2018-2019) M8 oil pump!
i agree. they told me it had to fail before they would warrant even though they knew it was substandard. ugggggh. i just went ahead and replaced it with me paying for it. not happy but i wanted to get it behind me.
Safety issue?
@@robertlumsden942 Me too... But I did have a new cam installed while it was open...
@@robertlumsden942 that's such a poor response from Harley. My bike currently has 5K on it and Harley would have made more money had they just changed the oil pump for me. I would have upgraded the cam and other components while they had my bike. so much for them doing the right thing. Hoping to make a decision on a cam this fall and get the pump done at the same time.
@@ranchodeluxe1 probably not a safety issue, unless it seizes and locks up. More than likely an oil sump issue with the old pump.
My scoot is a 2002 no warranty. I have completed a stage 2 with a 2into1 pipe. I have to say you were so correct my TC 88. has woken-up. Very snappy fierce pulling. 07 16 22 500mi oil change push rod adjustment. Going ahead and doing a 3 hole oil change. The shop wanted me to choose the SS 510 cam I did I only wish it's powerband came on sooner. The shop is called Gearheads in Michigan city I.N. The shop is not much to look at however the owner Drew is a master at his craft I am so lucky this shop is only 1.7mi from my house. P.S. Thanks for the vids.
$140 dollar for labor NOT including an oil change, when I pay $30 dollars for an F150 oil change, $25 dollars for wife's Honda oil change. Yeah EFF HD!
Harley has always wanted to write their own rules. They and every other motorcycle manufacturer make a motor vehicle sold for transportation use on public highways, so they should be held to the same warranty standards as any other motor vehicle. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. limit warranty claims when it comes to aftermarket performance add-ons and modifications. As manufactured and delivered by a factory authorized dealer, they must also make sure their vehicle adheres to EPA, NTSB, and other Gov't agency standards. Many aftermarket items commonly sold to and used by Harley enthusiasts do in fact violate these standards. Some of course do not. Whether or not these items are the direct cause of failure is a debate for highly paid lawyers and their "expert witnesses" in a court of law. And we know who can afford better experts.
I'm sure you have seen motorcycles still under warranty that failed due to being worked on by someone who should never have tools in their hands while anywhere near a motorcycle.
For the price the warranty should be 5 years 60,000 mile engine and Trans .
Car dealership have been doing this for years!
When is the government going to do something about Tesla, which does the same thing.
This means the CA guys can tune their stage 4's now.
Harley sold them them parts, but they dont have a tune for in their tuner
Harley shot themselves in the foot in terms of me buying a new bike for the first time. They close my local dealership because they want an image that excludes smaller dealerships, the nearest dealership is an hour away, and I like to customize. I’ll stick my what I have and my local mechanic for the jobs out of my scope of knowledge and expertise.
The bikes normal warranty covers you. By then if it didn't happen i(break) it probably won't i passed on the crappie. Extended warranty.
take a drink every time he says " harley Davidson " one of the things I can't stand about that company!!🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Now harley needs to stop over charging for their bike.
Hey I’d like to see something you do something on this in the Supreme Court just come out and tell The EPA something. Something about the PA couldn’t tell something about what to do or put restrictions or something like that I think maybe to do with Harley or something like that I don’t know that would be something to find out about if it affects all of us where they’re forcing Harley to do EPA compliant this and that
I gotta agree with Gixxer. I've worked at 2 dealerships and I wasn't happy with Harley's business practices. Sometimes it seemed like they treated their dealers as a necessary evil. Hope something good comes from this.
In my humble opinion, I think we're going to see a short limited warranty instead of a 2 year unlimited.
Every other big motorcycle brand only offers 1 year warranty.
I think a company has the right to protect themselves during the warranty period and considering HD have an extensive aftermarket catalogue I think it's fair that they can determine what they will and won't fix while the bike is under warranty.
The mechanic I used when I had a HD had a reputation as being a genius when the fact is he spent most of his time fitting either stock HD parts or mild Screaming Eagle part's because people just did plain stupid things to their bikes themselves then expected the dealer's to fix their foul up's...
I had this mechanic and a dealership tell me come talk to us before you do any mod's.
Right there with ya Gixxer. When I bought my 2020 Street Glide they flat out told me all service and parts must be done by Harley or bye bye warranty. 2 years now bike is all stock still and I have 2 more years of ESP. I love Harley but their business practices have really soured me from buying anything more from Harley. Hope this gets straightened out to our advantage
I agree, I just use slipons and everything else aftermarket.
This might motivate Harley to build better parts, and make Screamin Eagle more competitive, reliable and sought after. On the downside the prices may go up on new bikes to offset the surge in warranty repairs. Just a thought. Another great video!
I don't feel bad for them because they got away with not recalling A LOT of things that should have been recalled and fixed.
At the very least they should have given the affected customers the parts to fix the problem instead of making them buy them.
I guess the thing that left the deepest impression on me is the wobbly cranks and the elimination of the Timken bearing along with the loosening of tolerances so they could avoid responsibility. THAT should have never gotten out the door.
They also refused to add extra chassis stabilizers to the Dyna, refusing to acknowledge the death wobble, yet when they started the rubbermount Sportsters they included the proper stabilizers stock.
I am sick of Harley Davidson, They wanted 175.00 to mount a tire I was buying from them even after I handed them the wheel off the bike, Ended up buying the same model tire from a Kawasaki dealer and they put it on the wheel and balanced it for 25.00
Me too!
This is one of the many reasons Harley is struggling. Being out of touch with their consumer is a definite way having putting one foot in the grave.
They don’t care about their customers at all they think we’ll were Harley Davidson you’ll just buy another I know one thing I’ll never buy another one from a HD dealership all they do is talk in circles intil your warranty is up
Except they are not struggling.
Because my pegs were worn on my Harley, they said I was racing and wouldn't use my warranty. Harleys need a warranty, theyre strait trash if you actually ride them.
Not a lot of Millennials stepping up to buy them, they keep pissing off their regular customers they’re NFL. Not for long.
@@Thundercats-HOOOOO you need a new dealer not motorcycle company.
The issue isn’t the MOCO, it’s the individual dealer abuse on any issues. You still cannot change the tune on the bike without voiding the warranty. This is true for and all new cars, trucks, and motorcycles.
That's very true, a bad dealer can sour a customer. I have fought that with Chevrolet dealers, called GM and got a new tune out of the dealership 😆
I'm not sure how long a warranty is on a new bike but I bought a 2 year warranty from the dealer when I bought my 14 street glide and covered anything drivetrain and it was tuned with a dynojet tuner. I think it has a stage two on it. (Unconfirmed). So to get any warranty voiding work done by said dealer you would have to buy their extended warranty.
Exactly too many people think now that HD is going to pay for their Woods cam and Powervision tuner! Lmao! Buy a new Chevy truck and put a Comp Cams race cam in it and see what kinda warranty you have!
@@jamesstafford62 but the new Chevy doesn’t need that, because unlike most stock Harleys, it makes decent power that is comparable to its competitors straight from the showroom floor without needing money dumped into it
@@TheAsheybabe89 a stock 114 has plenty of power my god you never would’ve liked a shovelhead or EVO lmao they had about 70 Hp maybe!
While I have no interest in late model Harley Davidsons (I am a carburetor guy through and through) so I will obviously never own a H-D with a warranty. I do belong to a couple of H-D forums, and what I found out is that the H-D Screamin Eagle tuner is practically worthless, and so are many aftermarket tuners. Any tuner that uses the stock narrow band O2 sensors is simply not going to get the air/fuel mixture rich enough to prevent the engine from melting down if you put aftermarket pipes and an air cleaner on it. It will still be in the 14.1 range, and you need to get it all the way down into the 12.1 range for pipes and an air cleaner. Many tend to favor the ThunderMax system, which both completely replaces the oem ECU, but also replaces the stock narrow band O2 sensors with wide band O2 sensors. Obviously the EPA is not going to like that, and H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA. That has been a big part of them voiding warranties on bikes that were set up with non H-D fuel system parts.
There are a couple of independent Harley shops in my area that I would absolutely trust over any dealer. I had one of my Sportsters worked on by one of them once (it was over 10 years old, so a dealer wouldn't touch it anyway) and was completely satisfied.
I can see where replacing some parts (ESPECIALLY Chinese made parts) but also non stock parts like cams, or valve train parts, or a new top end that increases the displacement beyond what the engine was designed to handle could damage an engine, and that damage should be on the customer. You've basically rebuilt the engine not only with non H-D parts, but parts that do not meet H-D specs. That is not H-Ds fault. As far as grips, or any cosmetic part or non mechanical part, like a seat, sissy bar, handlebars, and pretty much any kind of accessories, none of those are going to affect the mechanical condition of the bike. As long as you use oil and filters approved by H-D, that shouldn't be a problem either. I have never used H-D oil, but I do use 20w50 oil that is approved by H-D. I typically use K&N filters, because they have a hex on them that you can get a socket on. Now, there can be issues with oil and filters. If you use 0w0 oil and a Fram filter, you will likely destroy your engine. I have seen a couple of car engines destroyed by Fram filters.
But the fact is, H-D no longer makes Harleys anymore. You HAVE to install an aftermarket exhaust system to even get the Harley sound out of them. What good is an H-D that does not make the Harley sound? I also include the Harley feel, and the M8 engine lacks any feel at all. Sadly not much you can do about that. But people have been putting aftermarket exhausts (and back in the good old days, aftermarket carburetors) on their bikes forever. My 1989 FXR Low Rider has an S&S Super E carburetor and air cleaner. Very common for that era bike. The modern way is to use tuners and replace some parts of the fuel system (like the O2 sensors) to get a proper air/fuel mixture, that the bike should have come from the factory with.
People are reading way to much into this lmao! You can’t build a complete S&S drag engine and think HD is going to pay you for it then warranty it when it blows up! You can’t pull the cam out of your 2022 Streetglide and replace it with a Zippers or Woods just because you want more power! THE ONLY tuner you can use is the Screaming Eagle EPA legal one Period! If you do modify your engine it will void the Engine but not the WHOLE warranty ! Some shady dealers used the EPA lawsuit to void the whole warranty if engine mods were done, just because you change cams doesn’t mean they could deny a paint or radio problem ! It’s the same rules the car companies have to go by and many HD dealers did not follow the rules! You can buy a new Chevy and get every service done at Jiffy Lube as long as you keep receipts and use the correct grade oil and a OEM equivalent filter! Same with HD now they have to follow the rules like they should have all along!!!
Hell I was told I had to do my 1000 mile service by dealer or warranty is out the window. I definitely think that this is a step in right direction. I really do like the bikes and not so much their business practices
There are a lot of manufacturers have similar warranty language. Try doing your own work or use aftermarket parts on John Deere equipment! Automotive dealers would laugh you out of the building.
Remember the Ol’ days. When a knuckle and pan were built to last.
Nothing Lasts. 🦅⚡️
Always a Hoot
Yep, still riding my 1949 EL Panhead
Hey my 2014 dyna is flat out reliable af, buuuut that may be because my ass has put so much time money and effort and have touched damn near every bolt on it
@@tommyweese5697 can’t push start it though
@@keepriding9722 idk if I’ve ever had to push start mine. Wouldn’t know if it worked or not. If I have tried it’s been a long ass time and I put a new high cca battery in it when I did my build and mechanical compression releases
Biden is supporting China instead of America with his recent trade policies also . My Harley stock just tanked !!!-
I don’t use their oil either. I use Mobil one or valvoline syn. Cylinders after 50000 mi . No wear -
Well ; HD go figure 😁
✊🏻👍👌
2020 m8 107 with a stage 2 43k already. Change the oil every 4k. What's your intervals on the oil?
I think by forcing Harley-Davidson to warranty tuners and parts that they do not produce that this will drive up the cost of motorcycles. The increased cost will be attributed to Harley-Davidson needing to validate the functionality of parts that they do not produce. Just my opinion.
No one is forcing them to warranty the work. It's merely can't void my warranty for a wheel bearing because I put on Roland sands grips. They have to prove the tuner caused the problem.
@@ihatesjws1188 I thought that it already works that way. If you put a non Harley-Davidson approved tuner on your bike it only voids the engine’s warranty but not the rest of the bike. Maybe I am mistaken.
@@bradwilliams4921 that's been the problem this whole time. Harley was voiding the whole thing because you put on any after market parts. That's why people where angry in certain parts of the states.
Harley wouldnt do anything on my bike, not even an oil change, My bike is an 02 fatboy with less than 10k miles, but they said they can only work on 03 and newer, P.s. my bike is clean, no rust no corrosion, no frozen bolts.
It’s not just Harley. Most metric dealers won’t touch a bike made before 2010.
The Dealerships are privately owned. Each dealership can choose what they want to work on.
My local Dealership will work on my 2012 StreetGlide.
I recently bought a 2000 FXDWG with 22,000 miles on it. It's a real creampuff. I haven't needed to take it to the Dealer yet, so I don't know if they'll work on it.
@@benscratchin8014 Well after denying my service request they tried to sell me a bike, I said why would i by a bike from you, If you dont trust youur products then why should I....lol
My friend is a master mechanic for BMW they said they won't touch vehicles older than 10 years old due to dry rot. There liable is a plastic wire or connection brakes. So they would rather dave the head ache and work on cars 10 years and newer.
When I bought Japanese motorcycles I didn't care if they had a warranty or not because they were always good reliable motorcycles and lasted till the day that they died. I never had any warranty dealings because I never had any mechanical problems within the warranty. Generally I didn't have problems with my Japanese motorcycles until they were over 10 years old with a quarter million miles on them. I can get parts for an 80-year-old British bike but I can't get parts for a 20-year-old Japanese bike what's up with that? They don't sell parts because they want you to buy a new motorcycle but Japanese motorcycles are not $1,000 like they were what I was growing up. They are ridiculously expensive now just like everything else is.
because no one wants to fix a 20 year old bike when you can just buy a new one for 3 grand 😂😂😂 Harley-Davidson is a different story the old ones holt their value and very well.
@@coopermeikle3856 I want to know what kind of brand new motorcycle you can get for $3,000? And Harley-Davidsons do not hold their value at all that is a big m y t h in order to justify overpricing at the beginning of the purchase as well as overpriced accessories and overpriced warranties everything with Harley-Davidson is overpriced and undervalue. You can buy a beautiful Evolution dresser that cost $16,000 and you can buy it for 30 cents on the dollar. I know six people who have done that just in the local area alone.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 yeah because no one wants an evolution dresser 🤣 but the evolution softails are a different story. You can't find those for less than 5-7 grand in my area. They were 7-10 new. Just one of my many experiences.
@@coopermeikle3856 you couldn't get a big twin 472 10 brand-new in the old days you could get a Sportster for that kind of money in the 90s I know cuz I bought my Sportster. When I bought my house in 1993 I paid the same as a big Harley dresser $16,000 if I bought a Harley dresser it would be $5,000 and they have super low mileage on them because people did not ride them except to go to bike night and play vroom vroom on bike night. My house is now worth 75,000 and is surrounded by million dollar condos smaller than my house I made the right choice
Good for you. Completely off topic but glad your house is worth more. 👌🏻
Harleys bent over and taking it in holes they didn't know they have. On one hand, I'm glad. On the other, I'm nervous, because Harley isn't doing the greatest in the first place, now this stuff. Yeah Harley shouldn't force us to use Harley junk, but Harley also shouldn't go bankrupt and fold.
They probably we'll go bankrupt and come back and leaner meaner and better managed company
HD didn't start this "right to repair" thing. It was John Deere and Apple. But in the bike area HD is the worst. If I was a dealer it would be any of the big J's, and if I wanted to expand it would be with Korean or Chinese bikes. So I could sleep at night.
Back in 2017 I bought a used 2016 FLSTN..Harley charged me like 2500 bucks for a aervice contract..Only when they spilled break fluid on my fender of my GOLD HARD CANDY CUSTOM paint job to the tune of 1500 bucks to repair they ghosted me..Tucson Harley Davidson sucks iron 883 Ball bearings..
I'm telling ya the dealership in Olathe Kansas are ABSOLUTELY thieves. Terrible customer relations among other things.
Too few younger cyclists see Harley as an option. T he company can't afford to offend the customers it has. The corp heads better wake up or Harley will go the way of the Henderson,
Agreed
Love the video and curious what Harleys re-written warranty looks like What if the re-written warranty is only good for six months and 5 thousand miles on all new bikes, as an example. Harley now provides a warranty, albeit a poor one , to satisfy the Government and they only need to say the consumer knew this before the purchase. Would the Government step in again or is it what it is?
It’s gonna come down to if you want a Harley Davidson, Work on it yourself, zero warranty, and kick your own butt when something goes wrong
I've never bought a motorcycle that had a warranty of any kind. The only failings of any kind happened long after any warranty would have expired, or were caused by some ''mechanic'' that should have his hands chopped off!
Lol…hell no. I got the aftermarket non-Harley extended warranty and I can get it fixed anywhere.
@@RealSuperRando my last bike I got an extended warranty, 16 years later and 75,000 miles I’ve been lucky enough to have never had a problem that would have been covered, of course the extra $1500 bucks it cost would have bought a really nice hat.
The lawyers are going to get rich
Back in Aug 2016, after negotiations, the EPA fined the MoCo $12M because Harley-Davidson violated the Clean Air Act by manufacturing and selling about 340,000 tuners, that allowed users (owners) to change how the motorcycle’s engine functions. Part of the penalty was for the MoCo to remove and destroy all the tuners that remained in the inventory and certify that all new tuners will be CARB Compliant (less capability of actually tuning the bike).
Another part of the EPA penalty is that the MoCo is required to conduct tests on tuner-equipped motorcycles and provide the results to EPA to guarantee that their motorcycles remain in compliance with EPA certification requirements for emissions. We’ve all heard of the ‘not EPA compliant’ ‘Warranty void’ once a modified bike is plugged in at the dealership.
It’s the EPA that’s causing the ass pain. The issue is that once your bike is reported, you’re screwed, let’s say you put a new header to get the catalytic (blast furnace) converter off your passengers foot and then tune the bike with a power commander or other non MoCo tuner and as a unrelated incident, one day, your transmission or clutch needs repair. We all know that a header replacement will not cause harm to other driveline components. However, the EPA will not allow the MoCo to make the repairs under warranty. Oddly enough, this seems to be in direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
The tuning thing is how the EPA is punishing the consumer. It’s interesting that the FTC is involved. Fascinating to watch one federal agency contradict another. HD customers are caught in the middle.
I bet the MoCo warranties will become less draconian. But I also bet that the EPA will prevail over the FTC… I.e. if you use a non CARB compliant tuner, they will not permit the manufacturer to warranty any engine related problems.
It’s not realistic for the EPA to pursue individuals, but by using the manufacturers, it’s an endeavor the EPA is capable of.
One of my bikes is a 2014 Dyna Wide Glide, it had the old Tuner on it (orange one) and i recently took the bike in for some work and it had to be retuned, when i picked up the bike they handed me my orange one and a black one and told me they are not charging me for the black one but i cannot use the orange one anymore. WTF.
I am not blaming Harley, they are just following the stupid rules set out by the EPA, now if i want i retuned back to the orange one then i have to take to another shop but i have ti pay to have it retuned.
EPA can kiss my ass!
I also have a 2009 Rocker C and it is tuned with the orange one also.
I have a 2021 Street Glide also and that is tuned with the black one which is fine, but why are they changing over the one that were tuned previously, its just costing the customer more money to switch it back or switch tuners. EPA is just a black hole tat pretends like they are doing something for the customer but they are just a pain in the ass.
Love my bike but HD and dealerships do make it hard to truly enjoy the potential of the bikes
ooooooooooooo boy the government is going to fix another problem.... my concern look how they fix everything else......another home run Gixxer thank u
Us farmers have been going through this same warranty issue with John Deere for years, law suit after law suit. Deere feels that after I pay a quarter of a million dollars for a combine I should not have the right to work on it myself. The Fed's have stepped in and laid down the law to them but they are still thumbing their nose at the Fed's and I'm sure you will see Harley do the same thing. I've been riding Harley's for fifty two years and can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a Harley dealer. And most certainly never bought a bike from a dealer. They can kiss my ass, If I can't fix it then I'll park it in a corner of the barn and buy another one.
I don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible for the motor or drivetrain once any aftermarket power adder is installed. I also don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible after an aftermarket tuner has been installed because technically all of those tuners are not EPA compliant. Also if the bike has been tuned by an independent with an aftermarket tuner and the motor fails H-D again will not be held responsible. Lets face it, none of these aftermarket horse power adders will work if an aftermarket tuner cannot be installed to take the bike out of EPA mandated emissions so all of this work is technically illegal from a government standpoint. If you want proof of everything I am saying just look at what has been going on with the diesel pickup truck and aftermarket parts and tuner industry in that sector. I think this could really backfire on all of the consumers of the aftermarket speed shop industry for H-D products as now they may be going under a giant magnifying glass and the government may come down hard on the industry. Take a look at the huge fines leveled on independent diesel shops who were doing exactly the same thing that the aftermarket bike shops are doing now. This may not end up being a good thing at all.
I’ve never got caught up in the hype of buying a new Harley and then dumping a small fortune in to be in the crowd. To me this is foolish. I ride older Harleys and purchased a factory service manual for them and save thousands. I’ve never wanted to be part of the “in” crowd. Fuck the “in” crowd as far as that goes!
Same here. To piss off the in-crowd my AMF has a proper AMF brand sticker on it. Lets call it what it is 😁
hey i saw some vids from 2 years ago about the 883 and it’s really helped a lot with choosing aftermarket parts and where I wanna go and what I wanna make for my goals for this bike so i just wanted to say thank you for making these videos and keep up the good work cuz i’m about to pull the trigger in buy 2022 883
The FTC says Harley has to allow third party parts and maintenance. The EPA demands that no changes can be done to Harley Davidson motorcycles that may change the emissions profile. The FTC and EPA demands are in conflict. Harley Davidson is stuck in the middle. The customers end up suffering over it.
So very true. You're one of the few people that realize that they are stuck in the middle
The Magnuson-Moss Act is what covers this warranty work.
I have always thought that if you put on a new FI system, then Harley wouldn't warranty the fuel system or intake. If you put on a new ignition system, then any system related to that ignition system would no longer be under warranty. If you put on a big bore engine kit by S & S, then say goodbye to the warranty on the engine...I always wondered about smaller components like cams and air cleaners etc....
I just don't like the idea of taking your bike in to the dealer to flash the bikes memory for stereo upgrades etc....
Hello, Question - Do you know if the new warranty rules Harley must follow carry over to third party warranty companies? I am buying a used 2017 CVO Limited, and was ready to purchase a warranty from Discount ESP. $1,800 for 3 years. Then as I was reading through the contract, and seeing the exclusions, and requirements to get a repair done I started questioning if this was a good idea. I already know about a few of the issues I may need to address like the oil pump, and oil transfer, and it looks like these would be excluded if they don’t actually cause a failure. I was mainly concerned with getting all the electronics, and electrical items covered. What’s your opinion? Would it be smarter just to fix the items that fail myself, and save the money, or buy an esp?
The third party warranty companies are iffy and dealers may or may not honor them for several reasons. Depending on their protocol (warranty company) you drop your bike off for repair and you may have to pay the service department up front and hope the warranty company reimburses you. I would save my money for if you ever have a major failure.
HD should have been out if business a long time ago after the AMF era. Other bikes don't fall apart or blow up like a HD's.There are great bike companies out there that bend over backwards for there customers .This produces new and repeat business. I've been asked many times " If HD flew a plane..would you fly in it?" NOPE!
True!
My question is i@ will any of this new info going to be retroactive?
I have a 2018 RG Cvo. I started having sumping issues with about 6 months left on the factory warranty.
MOCO had not come out with the upgrade for the oil pump so I purchased the S & S pump and cam plate, upgraded the cam since they were going in the chest, and added a Power Vision tuner all bought and installed by the dealership. Needless to say MOCO voided what was left of the power train warranty.
That's a question I was wondering too, cause with the Super Tuner they had to buy all them back regardless of when you purchased. So really kind of wondering if they will go back several years on the warranties.
Is there a compilation of the life expectancy of stock Harley Davidson parts? For instance how long do wheel bearings last, when will the drive belt self destruct? When will the transmission wear out.
I know there are wear limits and suggested replacement conditions, but, has Harley or anyone done a long term wear and destructive testing?
Imagine? Poor Harley Davidson is gonna have to honor their word.
working on 2 of my older harleys atm guy at the harley dealership said "you should just trade them in for a new one with a warranty" thing is what warranty 😂 plus I like working on.my motorcycle minus the money part.
Warranty dealings with the motor company can be just a little bit easier with a dealer who is worth a f##k. Just saying!
FP3 for me. Thanks bro for all your vids. 👊 Also, I bought my H.D. IRON 1200 2 + years ago, for under 10k, now those are going from 12,900 at my dealership, which I don't go to because I have a FP3 and Amazon. 😊
Amazon slipons for 200.00 bucks rock. Loved mine.
@@grayghost1423 heck yeah, got shark road slip ons on mine, think they were 199$ amazon lol waiting for lowbrow customs to finish my exhaust, shotgun exhaust.
this has some John deere business practice similarities. Proprietary repair only.
So true! And John Deere is catching hell for it as they should
so glad you covered this topic! i left a comment a couple weeks ago asking if your thoughts. again, glad to see you let others know about this that might not have known about this.
The HD and their dealerships were getting to big and smug for their own good!
What many Harley dealers were doing is called steering. That is illegal under Federal and most State laws. This has been coming for a long time. The dealers that actually value their customers have been doing this correct from the start and won’t be affected. Those that weren’t putting their customers first, they are in for a rude awakening and will need to adjust their own business practices.
Amen
What about Dealers that install Non-Screaming Eagle parts (Exhaust) on new bikes and will cover, themselves. Then when away from that dealer, and something goes wrong. Will the other Dealer be required to cover repairs? 🏍💨🏍💨
It's going to be interesting, l say the part you swap is now that manufacturers issue. Anything left factory is still on Harley.
What a...Hornet's-Nest.
Sounds like John Deere
Its about time. Awesome! Love my Harley but this warranty issue has been stupid! Great news.
HD is putting themselves 10 feet under....day by day by day. Ooooooooh....by day. They need to learn from HONDA or Yamaha. What a joke. Backwards company. Keep the bike and the company. Greedy HD !!!!!!!!!!!!
GixxerFoo 😂😂😂
Love how you think it's expensive to purchase a new Sportster in 🇺🇸😂
You need a minimum of $20,000 for a Sportster here in Australia....🤔🤔
& $49,990 for a LiveWire 😂😂😂
Living the FUCKING Dream ❗
Safe travels 🙏❣️
💪🇦🇺💪
Since you broached the subject of warranty, what about the extended warranty? If you purchase 3 additional years, they consider that a 5 year warranty. Even though it doesn’t do anything ine first two years. So if you cancel it after in the first year after the factory warranty, they consider that 3 years of a 5 year warranty and will only give you your 2/5th of your money back. Not 2/3rds like it really should be. What a ripoff.
Stick a fork in the Motor Company
They're DONE !!!!!! Expensive unreliable products with NO dealer support and a HUGE price tag. Expensive JUNK purchase at your own risk. Former owner former stockholder .
Its only fair. If an owner puts a very FU'd tune on his hopped up Road Glide and the motor burns up a piston, the local dealer and the Motor Company should decline to repair at no cost.
I purchased my new Heritage 114 in 2021. I had a Stage 1 upgrade with Rinehart slip on mufflers and their Screaming Eagle Tune. I asked recently to have a Stage 2 done this Spring. They were pushing The Screaming Eagle Cam, and I said no, that was crap. I wanted an S & S 475C Cam and a Dynojet Power Vision Tune.
Thanks to GixxerFoo by the way for helping me make that decision
(I really want that loping idle!).
They said this would void my warranty. I then said that was prohibited by The FTC. Two weeks later, the dealer answered, "Well it won't void your warranty, but your bike will then exceed EPA specs. We strongly suggest you wait until the warranty expires and we will be happy to install the S & S upgrade this winter. I don't care for the way they initially tried to mislead me. I have a local Harley mechanic that will do the work, for a much more reasonable price.
Hello. I bought a 2022 freewheeler. I haven't received anything from harley. Are people getting attorneys for these situations? Thx
🛑🛑 Gix….Don’t forget, even though Harley Lost On This One…..they sold a Ton of Screaming Eagle Parts and billed a Ton of Hours over this Unfair Warranty Practice.
So Harley maybe Sad on The Outside, they are Smiling On The Inside from the Money they have already made. 🤷♂️💯 💰
In 1999 Harley created Custom Vehicle Operations, CVO, because people were pissed that as soon as they changed ANYTHING from factory Harley to aftermarket, it voided warranty.
Custom Vehicle Operations created it's own custom aftermarket parts department. It started out as mostly chrome accessories, not higher performance parts. That is evident in the 2001 FXDWG2 Switchblade (of which I own the floor model from Denver dealership). From that came the entire Screaming Eagle line. Factory hotrods using factory aftermarket parts are CVO bikes. None of them would exist had this new law been an old law.
As always... Very Informative and Appreciated. Thank You.
In 1976 I purchased a new FLH 1200. I was 19 years old working on an offshore oil platform. I had money, serious money. I paid cash for my Harley because they would not finance 19 year old me. Whoever built the engine didn't shim the crankshaft so the engine ate itself. When I trailered the bike to the dealership the mechanic said I should get a new engine under warranty. The engine was shipped to Harley Davidson for inspection. When the found out I had paid cash they then refused to replace the engine because the bike wasn't coming back on them. I talked to a lawyer and he told me it was Harley's decision if they made good on the warranty so basically I was screwed. Because of that I've never purchased or owned another Harley Davidson, and never will. Today I'm 66 years old and continue riding so imagine how many motorcycles I've purchased over the decades I've been riding that could have been new Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Why buy a 20-30,000$ bike that requires at least ten grand worth of upgrades just to get what you want? An that's just customizing things to your liking and getting the full potential out the stock setup. We ain't talking engine and performance upgrades either. That would be the next step 🙄🥺
2020 Trike Ultra - with Rienhats! Intend to add Cam, (Tourqie one!) Cam plate & Oil pump! What will be my best Tune device? Power Vision etc.
THATS THE REASON you do not mess with your vehicle till its off warranty,EVERYONE used to be smart enough to know that,BUT these new bikers aren't that smart,its sad but the new crowd doen't seem to be smart enough to figure anything out now days...
So I hope that means they can't fuck me over a set of slip ons for my 2022 XL883N that are not EPA compliant, because I live in a state that motorcycles are EPA exempt. As far as who is to pay and fix, this battle was fought and won in the automobile industry back in the 1970's. So there is precedence that was set for sorting it out long ago I.E. Chevy can't fuck you out of your warranty because you installed Flowmaster mufflers on your Corvette.
A couple of questions: why should HD be responsible for damages caused by some yahoo getting their new bike “upgraded” by Joe shit the ragman which causes damages downstream? Why don’t you just wait out the 1 year manufacturer defect warranty and then purchase an extended warranty through a third party? NO WAY HD should be responsible for you destroying your bike by watching RUclips Bob who learned to work on his bike from RUclips Billy.
1930s technology with 1950s metallurgy delivering 40 reliable horsepower. But, no, Harley owners want 100 horsepower. What could go wrong.
Buy a used Honda VTX1800. Harley saddlebags. Harley seat. Harley handlebars. Harley loud exhaust.
Come on. I was just at a Harley dealer. They have 1/10th the bikes in stock that they had last year. Must of had 25 sales people on the floor . No idea when they were getting more.
The dealer has a band playing every weekend.
It's an event.
Don't be surprised if HD no longer offers a warranty beyond what comes with a new purchase. It's all about profit, if the table is tilted to their favor as it has been it's a product for sale, if the field is leveled for the consumer the cost will go up or they will simply no longer offer it.
I don’t know why companies try to nickel and dime customers on warranty claims. My dad was a salesman and then a sales manager for most of his life and I learned a lot from him. He believed in selling the customer a good product backed with great service. He would tell his salesmen that it takes at least 100 good sales to make up for 1 bad one as most people won’t say anything if they’re satisfied with a product, but if it doesn’t work as it should they’ll tell anyone and everyone that they see what they think about it. There used to be brand name products that you could count on for them and their warranty to stand behind their product, but that seems to be out of style in our society today. I bought my 2006 FXDWGI used with about 12k miles on it so fortunately I don’t have to have anything to do with Harley if I don’t choose to. Harley may also choose not to have anything to do with me and my over 16 year old bike as well so I’m thankful for aftermarket suppliers and independent shops (for work that I don’t decide to do myself). It says so much about a company when they go above and beyond what you expect on warranty service, but as we see with Harley the opposite also says volumes about a company as well.
It's the people fault for buying Harley bikes knowing they have problems and not standing by their products.
On the flip side of it the warranty,it saved me thousands of dollars, lol
If you want the warranty, then you have Harley performance parts installed by a qualified Harley mechanic. Like Toyota or other brands, Toyota wants TRD parts installed by Toyota techs. This isn't unreasonable; why should a company have to warranty damage caused by Uncle Jimbo's Git-R-Dun Garage? It is your property and you can do whatever you want to it but that doesn't mean companies have to pay for your dumb decisions.
Good friend if mine been riding a harley since 1975. Bought a 2005 screaming eagle V Rod and bike would not track straight. after 3 dealerships looking at it, discovered came from factory with bent swing arm. harley refused to cover it stating warranty had expired!!
The government is not are freind .Yer so wrong wait and see what happens in the future. All this crying about warranty will ruin it for every body. NO more none epi complaint parts. Like pipes and tunners. Everything will be epi complaint coming soon.
I'm not completely siding with HD, but I kind of get where they're coming from...Most aftermarket parts that owners install on HD's are performance related, as we all know, HD stock engines don't always see eye to eye with those parts...So, if I'm any vehicle manufacturer, I really don't want to be flooded with warranty claims that are most likely related to all this hi-performance rage...Yea, you want to buy A-market seats, grips, and aesthetic shit that's cool...But guys are throwing HP and torque at stock bikes, and then beating them with their smoke shows etc etc....
SOP on most manufacturers and brands during warranty.
No aftermarket ex system.
No Power Commander or ECU performance changes.
Not rocket science.
Wait till the warranty period expires - all bets are off - do what you want.
🤣 Love my EVO sportster, no way I would honor HD with the cash to buy a new bike. The practices have been crap for decades, and this FTC ruling isn't going to change that fact. I do hope those who do have a new HD get a proper warranty, instead of the shaft, but I'm thinking not too likely.
Yes, HD warranty practices were f¿cked up. I agree with you and your opinions in this vid. 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
Thanks for sharing the good news!! Hang in there and pace yourself, my friend. You have to have priorities and I think most of us understand that. God bless y'all!!
And another, Saint Patricks day shindig at the dealership in Western NY, guy gets a door ticket prize for x amount off any accessories. He opts for an after market exhaust installed by them 1400$. A month and a half later he brings his street glide back in for NYS inspection... refused, they claim it has to be bone stock, sensors, decibel level etc...
I have heard that H.D. has warranty prob, but If I boost HP engine HP, to 300, and tyranny breaks, Harley Davidson has to fix it? I don't think so.
90% of the guys I ride with have HDs. Watching the issues they deal with, many warranty and service related have kept me from buying one.
I only buy what I'm able to wrench on.
I have bought three Harley Davidsons and I am about sick of them. They have sold out. They cater to these white collar people and Hollywood actors.
….totally forgot about the blue-collar people who kept them in business for decades. They make me sick. I’m also tired of the stupid interest rate and crooked salesman. Thinking about Indians now. They’re stupid cheesy ads with Hollywood actors pushing their motorcycles and clothing is embarrassing
Harley doesn't have to prove something like your S@S engine parts broke their transmission. You have to prove it didn't. And guess who pays for that fight. I'll never buy another new Harley again.