On road with jumps is a bummer to me. Off road should be gritty and unpredictable. No more watering the track - it is what it is and everyone has to race on the same surface, that's the fun of off road. Seems like the pros have too much influence on track conditions.
Agreed. When I was racing in the mid to late 90’s, there were so many pros complaining about track conditions. My first ever race was in Germany on a track that was never groomed since it was made. It made it super fun, unpredictable and gave the newbies the same chance at 1st as the pros. I finished 8th out of 35 drivers. It made me super proud. If I raced a pro now, I’d feel defeated by the first lap.
I used to be dismissive about high bite tracks and saying they were like on-road courses. But we have been running a clay high bite track for the last two years and it presents its own set of challenges. Due to the high traction, roll-overs are more common, forcing you to drive the car smoother and not jerk it around. The higher traction is less forgiving for sure. Another advantage of high bite is that you might have to only keep one or maybe two sets of tires onhand, this saving the racer money by not having to buy a bunch of different tires due to changing track conditions. At our track at least, the traction stays constant most of the night, but some nights we have to lightly spritz the track with water before the mains. Another advantage, especially for the track owner is the ease of maintenance. You don't have to go out and rake, pack, and dig up dirt to get the track back in shape. We have a misting system set up over the track where you can water the track in 5 seconds and be done. The clay track keeps flying dust at a minimum. The dust doesn't get into the AC system at the track, doesn't get into the lap counting computer.....the track building just stays cleaner which is a Godsend if you don't have a large crew working for you.
Agree with Jason that off road should be off road. I think the level is traction at most tracks is laughable. At what point does dirt become carpet or on road? These high bite tracks are done to increase lap times and allow for more consistent lap times but in my opinion they are hurting the sport. My opinion is less grip....I know that is crazy but with less grip drivers would have to adapt more set ups and adjust driving styles to changing conditions and would tighten the fields and have better racing....
+Chris Arvin You need to explain to me how it hurts the sport? Like in 1:1 what brings excited fans to the track? The threat of track records being broken. At this point mid engine, slick shod buggies are going as fast as they have ever gone. I don't think it hurts the sport, I do however think it may allow more TC guys to cross over. Yet a typical off-roader's lack of smoothness keep him from even competing at club-ish races like the ones Tamiya host. There no logical reason more speed hurt the sport, nobody is dying here. 2WD buggy is already expensive THAT IS HURTING THE SPORT and THE HOBBY.
Call me stubborn, call me dogmatic, but in my opinion off road racing should be off road style tires. Leave the slicks for the on road cars. I know a lot of people are gonna disagree with me and say i'm wrong, but i'm a little old school when it comes to racing.
Completely agree. If you're racing on a track where slicks will give you grip, you're basically driving an onroad course. I wish i was old enough to have been racing in days where spiked pins were needed to get any forward drive.
Even if slicks work, we're still racing on dirt tracks with the same old bumps, ruts, and jumps. Its still off-road racing. Brian Kinwald was running slicks on his 2wd in the early 90's, that's over 15 years ago. Slicks are nothing new to this industry and slicks haven't emerged simply because of sugar tracks or super high bite clay tracks.
Agreed. As an Aussie, we see rough off road with aggressive jumps or TC, pan on carpet/asphalt for on road. When I was told for off-road some would use slicks it was a somewhat shocked response. Even running off road carpet is still a bit odd for me.
Back when I ran my old Slash on a carpet oval, I ground my off road tires down to slicks in an attempt to 1. free up the chassis and, 2. to make the tires round. It worked out really well too. It made the tires round and I actually had to prep the tires to give it enough traction to not spin out or push really bad. This was right up my alley because I had just gotten out of racing go karts and that's a huge tire prep game. I had all kinds of tire prep and having to prep the tires actually gave me another adjustment to use in dialing in my Slash. I got it supper fast and they implemented a rule that the tires had to have at least .065" tread depth to be legal. New Slash tires are .100". I still ground my tires but it was to make them round so I still had an edge on everybody with their out of round tires.
Proffitt's Drone Service I just started racing slash bomber and just change body to mudboss I’m running proline primes slicks and mud corner I’m getting my rear end sliding to right and by then I’m getting lapped I tried the stock slash tires and got better traction but like to run slicks with crime rims just look better. I’m needing a tire like slick but better traction any suggestions thanks
@@wildcardjoker, what surface are you running? Dirt, concrete, carpet? Have you tried moving your battery back? You're most likely going to have to use some sort of tire prep and learn tire maintenance like cleaning, tire surface prep, and what tire prep product works best for you. As long as your chassis is set pretty close, tires are going to be your biggest asset to handling. Next biggest factor...like pretty much as important is going to be your driving. You can have everything perfect but if you're not driving the corner correctly, it's not going to work. Dive bombing the corner isn't going to transfer weight properly. Roll out of the throttle, get the weight to transfer to set the car and then power out from there. Same with setup; you can be doing everything right driving but if your setup isn't there, it's not going to work.
Running on carpet I think my chassis was sitting to low to much limiters in shock and not right camber. Readjusted it see next time on track. I put sauce on tires but didn’t let soak in enought. Thanks for your input I give it a try thanks for quick response
@@wildcardjoker, I always had alot of success messing with the right rear spring to help get the Slash to rotate in the corner. If it was pushing or too tight, I would add spring clips to the right rear. Adding RR spring rate seems to loosen it up or make it over steer wanting to spin out. It feels like it plants the left front tire harder making it help rotate the car more in the turn. Once you get it close on carpet ovals, the left rear camber will be your fine tuning adjustment. If you don't feel like you have enough drive out of the corner like it is spinning the LR, I many times had up to 4 degrees of POSITIVE camber in the left rear...usually 2 degrees of POSITIVE camber. And speaking of shock limiters; I always built the left rear shock a little longer than the rest of them. I want it to have the ability to drop a little bit lower to keep the tire in contact on corner exit. Not much though. I always had the most success when the car would push the front around when I was on the throttle. I would adjust the pitch of the car in the corners with the throttle. Off the throttle the car would turn/over rotate....on the throttle would push the front around. It's hard to get it like that but when you do, it'll be incredibly fast and easy to drive. It's also hard on the right front tire.
The guy I was talking to has been racing 30 years and sets up cars for people he gave me some of that info. Sounds like u also been there before too. I have limiters on left where my tires sets higher then right side as u said and running 2 1/2 camber on front left and 3 1/2 on left rear and right side close to nuteral. I’ll experiment next Sunday on track I thank you so much for your experience and input
I was with a lot of the other races and agreed that the word "Slicks" and "Offroad" don't belong in the same sentence. After racing with both pin and slick, I prefer slick. What I enjoy about slick is that regardless of what tire you are starting out with(manufactured slick or a buzzed down pin tire), you can achieve a really good grippy tire with much less break in period. All previous pin tires I had, all required multiple packs or lots of track time to get them into their prime. That prime was then very short. Slicks kind of level things out and allow you to keep things great for longer periods of time. Like you addressed, its often the foams that give out before the rubber does. The only part I don't agree with you on is the part on slicks won't teach you to counter steer/slide/etc. Different compound slicks can still provide that. For example, on my home track. Super soft slicks hook like no tomorrow, do amazing but have so much grip, it can sometimes cause slower lap times. Go with a Clay, you can manage that traction limit, get it to slide around when you want it but ultimately, allow you to actually run faster because its not just all about point and shoot. Anyway, Great videos. Keep them coming!
you are right, i myself switch between slicks n pins, each has their benefits and cons, i couldnt determine which is better but learning to control the car between grip and sliding/drifting/counter steering is part of the fun. it replicate the real car and you should learn to drive in any condition of surface or tire profiles
5:28 Thankyou Thankyou. I feel the same way. An offroad track should not be hard packed to the point it is just wavy asphalt. I think an offroad track should be fairly loose for the majority of it because lets face it, that is what offroad racing is. Just my opinion. I get annoyed when things become so min maxed to the point of racing offroad on slicks. They should put overly aggressive restrictions on tires. All it would take is an approved tire list and it would be end of story.
Slicks are good for people learning to set up a car. Consistent traction enables a rookie to feel exactly what his/her incremental change did rather than having to make large changes to notice results. My preference is a car that slides. I run MM but only because it yields faster lap times at my local track, but I prefer the feel and fun of a RM slide and stab.
Again commenting as somebody who observes and isn't in the fray: this was bound to happen given the smoothness and high traction available on clay surfaces. Slicks don't like loose dirt and don't like water. When none of those are present they are the best traction available. Why do you think drivers are looking for more front grip in the cars and the motor is being moved to the center? Because the track conditions are becoming more of a TC on dirt than a Buggy on dirt. The buggies still have ground clearance because of the Super Cross style jumps at most tracks. Driving a loose car on a loose surface is what made TC drivers struggle when they went off road. That said most TC drivers can now drive at big events with high grip surfaces that allow them to run slicks. They already have the smooth driving style especially those who have done well at 1/12 pan. Yet much like 1:1 racing we have specialization. The off-road guys run that and the on-road guys run on pavement/carpet. This is why we'll never likely see a Joel Johnson again in R/C racing much as we don't see a Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti, Vic Elford, etc in 1:1 racing.
From a race car driver perspective slicks are faster when the track is rubber down or super slick tracks that are sealed over. The reason is you get more tire surface area to the ground. Now as a dirt track driver we don't run slicks but usually in the mains when the track is slick or rubber down we will run tires that are not grooved getting more tire area on the ground.
I love old fashion dirt racing.... making your car slide around the corners and spinning some dirt out the back..... but there's always some room for a little sugar ... shot out to CCR....😎
good topic Jason ! I agree and diss agree well I enjoy both in the winter for me its indoors with at times running slicks and sumer time its out doors and its like the old days out door tires .. seen some people talking about setup .. thinking its more harder to race on out door tracks .. its the same u need the right tires and the right setup to go fast .. same thing for indoors . the only difference is the dirt its hard packed or its loose dirt .. I was not a fan of the new style racing at first till I tryed it and was like wow ! u can really push these cars to the limits ! and that's pretty much the direction the Rc racing is going too . and now with the turf surface its a new ball game .. I'm just not a Fan of turf yet but who knows already have 2 rc tracks near by that switched over to turf . still I refuse to race that turf . I enjoy dirt still .
Well, I feel kinda guilty saying this Jason...we discovered this by accident at MnM Hobbies in 1997/1998 time frame. When I say we I mean Brian Kinwald and myself...just testing one day. We had square fuzzie M3's and they were burnning up on my car. I told Kinwald, "my car's getting more traction and doing wheelies". He said, "Show me". I sauced them up and they were bald about 90%. I put my XX-CR car on the clay surface at MnM Hobbies punched it did a wheelie and flipped over backwards! Kinwald's little wheel started turning and he left the stand, didn't marshal my car and headed to his pits. He pulled out his dremel and created the first off-road slick. He sauced it up, and did wheelies. Then he said, "Dude, we have to do this to the fronts too". So he heads back over, cleans the fronts and dremel's the front to a slick. Again we used cut holshots back then in M3 and he sauces that up, goes out on the track and I have the stop watch. His lap times went DOWN by 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap. His car looked like crap..rear end dumping over etc. But the added traction and lack of slip in the turns = 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap! By the end of the night, I had my first set, BK had his and Chad Phillips had his and we destroyed the AE drivers (Billy Easton, Mark Pavidis, Jason Corl) by multiple laps...they didn't see what hit them! Mark walks over and see's brians car after the main and says, "cool tires". From then on, EVERYONE at MnM Used slicks...had too. The foams would wear out after about 2 weeks and you'd have to replace the tire's. But everyone agreed that using slicks was more fun and cheaper because you could get away with a set of tires for 1 to two months if you were in stock class etc. Slicks were born, and we tried them EVERYWHERE but they sucked everywhere but MnM back then. Then BK Bars came later as MnM Decided that it was no longer going to water the track and let it dry out. We had to go to pins. Now with clay tracks and track glue slicks are back. It's no different than carpet or astro turf in grip, just how it grips. I still like pins and nobbies on my tires though on a wet outdoor track where throttle control and steering control matter. Just me though. Gabe Boudreau
I agree that slicks on off road is crazy but it also takes a lot more skill like you said the car becomes far less forgiving and for the people that are bad mouthing them but have never tried it have no idea the challenge that comes with slicks
At my home track and your old home LHR in Joilet, slicks were awsome. However you did need to change on to a pin tire as the night went on and the track dried out. I don't think it hurts you in this situation because you needed the ability too adapt and handle the car in any situation. Just my opinion though. Keep up the good work and keep posting these video's.
Ultimately its just another tuning tool for racers. Though not a fan of slicks, I'd rather buy a set from a manufacturer than make a set myself out of a good set or even used up set of tires. Chances are on the worn tires you'll need to replace the broke down foams.
I guess I'm old school. Off road should mean unexpected terrain where slicks wont work best. A track that favors a slick I think shouldn't be classified as "offroad",
Been out of the sport for about 15 years. Came back to find carpet,astero turf shame. Lucky for me i live in Florida and there are nice outdoor tracks in a good radius from where i live. Really would like to try carpet at least once though.
Old video but if the car oversteers a lot on slicks and seems to lock up but with tread tires can drive the car super agressive. Dont have transponder to time but would I just need change setup some to get slicks to work or prob not going to work? Loving the rawspeed ripetides and stage 2 on my sct410.3 and eb48sl.
I think it would be nice to see a semi loose topsoil surface race . Like a freash tilled garden. Also for short corse class have a full on land rush start like the real trucks to at places like Crandon .
I personally think offroad should use tyres with some form of pin or tread. I race on an outdoor track that has a top layer of dust that requires pins, however it is clay & will grip up immensely when at a race day when the track is clean & prepped to the point you could run slicks or pretty well anything that is round. Good vid Jason. Hey when are you going to release the Cactus video ,I have been waiting on your thoughts regarding this cheap buggy?
I don;t see why people get angered over slicks... Some tracks are "BMX" styled and some aren't (mostly indoor)... You are going to get traction either way...
Hey Jason thanks for the videos, I am a long time rc'er but have been out of racing for 10+ years just getting back in. Could you do a video about what all the # on a lipo mean
Lets see, we race scale offroad vehicles of full size buggys and trucks. I do not see Rick Johnson, Johhny/Casey Greaves, Walker Evans, Ivan Stewart, and etc running on slicks. So why we would we want to run our scaled version on slicks? To me offroad requires tread and some type of dirt service. Carpet/turf with wooden jumps is not offroad. Carpet and slicks are for onroad.
I'm cool with slicks an some tracks that try to out law them i believe they will loss cause i run in open class but for a roar race i can see no slicks an handout tire for a stock class maybe
If you want low grip, go 1/8th scale. Nobody wants to drive a rear wheel drive buggy in loam, it's not as fun as being able to rip around corners and do wheelies on the straight
The problem isn't the slicks. It's the bitchy "pros" that complain that they can't get their cars to hook up or there isn't any grip to the track owners when there actually is a decent amount of grip, maybe not a high bite surface, but most definitely not a low bite surface. The majority of these "pros" are far from professional and couldn't drive a wet string out of a rat's ass on a real DIRT surface, none of these sugared dirt, clay, or watered and swept every heat tracks. I race 2wd SC, Stadium Trucks and Buggies on a huge, sometimes rutted, and only watered once a round unless it's a big race or really dry and windy day 8th scale track and there's this thing called a throttle finger. The trigger has more positions than on and off and it seems to me that many "pros" nowadays don't realize that.
If these guys are always in search of more grip and are continually looking for ways to make it easier to stay consistently fast lap after lap, install a damn carpet track. Way more grip than you'll ever need and absolutely no maintenance to keep the grip up which will result in much less time, effort, and money needed to keep it up to the standard that the "pros" expect it to be.
The tracks they race at are either watered or swept every round because the track needs to be consistent in order for qualifying to be fair for everyone. If the track was super fast and wet the first few heats and they just let the track dry out, the later rounds of heats would either be at a disadvantage or advantage. I understand your frustration that you have towards pro drivers, but I definitely wouldn't doubt their talent or abilities. They can wheel their cars faster than anyone else on any surface.
N8whopper jrN8 almost ALL 8th scale pro tracks are hard packed dusty surfaces, loam and all. Proline dual, Silver state, southern nats. All loamy surfaces fit for hole shots and blockades. The pros no matter the surface, will be able to tune their car to have good grip- being a pro isn't only about driving.
Ok if we are talking off road to make a course to a spec like mixing of concrete seem to be what you all are seeking for which there's a recipe. SERIOUSly
There is an indoor clay track in Ogden, UT that slicks are the only tires that hook up. The owner installed a drill press that has been modified to a tire lathe. Slicks are a tire tread option and if you don't like them, don't run them.
My personal opinion is that there should be no slicks in off road racing, it's OFF ROAD. If you want to run slicks get your touring car out. For me off road is about the ability and skill in sliding and controlling a car on a loose surface. That's what I enjoy about off road and teaches you car control. Why not just say a tire must have 1mm of tread or it's illegal, surely it's not that hard to monitor. Just saying ;)
whatever the rc companies say and do. thats what goes on at the rc races the last 5 years. like shooting themselfs in the foot. nobody even knows who roar and ifmar are the last 10 years, yah there helping the rc industry. useless.
Slicks are for drag cars not OFF-ROAD cars. Get wth the program already. If you wanna drive with slicks or on road rubber, drive an on road car and get off the damn dirt.
You lot should go on strike to get shot of this nonsense plan flat with lumps tracks used. Off road is off road. Not proten, 1/12 pan style on steroids. It's no fun and has spoilt the hobby of buggy racing. Never heard of oh what stick tyres to try and of I need thicker and stiffed springs. Bring back real buggy racing in a field on dirt n grass with added bits. I used to run the slogan "Eat my dust" on my rear wing. What would I put there now. Oh sorry I my foams falling apart!
On road with jumps is a bummer to me. Off road should be gritty and unpredictable. No more watering the track - it is what it is and everyone has to race on the same surface, that's the fun of off road. Seems like the pros have too much influence on track conditions.
Agreed. When I was racing in the mid to late 90’s, there were so many pros complaining about track conditions. My first ever race was in Germany on a track that was never groomed since it was made. It made it super fun, unpredictable and gave the newbies the same chance at 1st as the pros. I finished 8th out of 35 drivers. It made me super proud. If I raced a pro now, I’d feel defeated by the first lap.
I miss the old days 90's where you could throw your 1/8 scale nitro buggy into a turn and do a badazz roost all the way around the turn. Like a Boss!!
I used to be dismissive about high bite tracks and saying they were like on-road courses. But we have been running a clay high bite track for the last two years and it presents its own set of challenges. Due to the high traction, roll-overs are more common, forcing you to drive the car smoother and not jerk it around. The higher traction is less forgiving for sure.
Another advantage of high bite is that you might have to only keep one or maybe two sets of tires onhand, this saving the racer money by not having to buy a bunch of different tires due to changing track conditions. At our track at least, the traction stays constant most of the night, but some nights we have to lightly spritz the track with water before the mains.
Another advantage, especially for the track owner is the ease of maintenance. You don't have to go out and rake, pack, and dig up dirt to get the track back in shape. We have a misting system set up over the track where you can water the track in 5 seconds and be done.
The clay track keeps flying dust at a minimum. The dust doesn't get into the AC system at the track, doesn't get into the lap counting computer.....the track building just stays cleaner which is a Godsend if you don't have a large crew working for you.
Agree with Jason that off road should be off road. I think the level is traction at most tracks is laughable. At what point does dirt become carpet or on road? These high bite tracks are done to increase lap times and allow for more consistent lap times but in my opinion they are hurting the sport.
My opinion is less grip....I know that is crazy but with less grip drivers would have to adapt more set ups and adjust driving styles to changing conditions and would tighten the fields and have better racing....
+Chris Arvin You need to explain to me how it hurts the sport? Like in 1:1 what brings excited fans to the track? The threat of track records being broken. At this point mid engine, slick shod buggies are going as fast as they have ever gone. I don't think it hurts the sport, I do however think it may allow more TC guys to cross over. Yet a typical off-roader's lack of smoothness keep him from even competing at club-ish races like the ones Tamiya host. There no logical reason more speed hurt the sport, nobody is dying here. 2WD buggy is already expensive THAT IS HURTING THE SPORT and THE HOBBY.
your answer is 2016 sir! Carpet and Astro Turf EVERYWHERE! Blehhh...
I would like to see more normal dirt tracks,
Call me stubborn, call me dogmatic, but in my opinion off road racing should be off road style tires. Leave the slicks for the on road cars. I know a lot of people are gonna disagree with me and say i'm wrong, but i'm a little old school when it comes to racing.
Completely agree. If you're racing on a track where slicks will give you grip, you're basically driving an onroad course. I wish i was old enough to have been racing in days where spiked pins were needed to get any forward drive.
i agree
Even if slicks work, we're still racing on dirt tracks with the same old bumps, ruts, and jumps. Its still off-road racing. Brian Kinwald was running slicks on his 2wd in the early 90's, that's over 15 years ago. Slicks are nothing new to this industry and slicks haven't emerged simply because of sugar tracks or super high bite clay tracks.
I agree with that 2 lol
Agreed. As an Aussie, we see rough off road with aggressive jumps or TC, pan on carpet/asphalt for on road. When I was told for off-road some would use slicks it was a somewhat shocked response. Even running off road carpet is still a bit odd for me.
Back when I ran my old Slash on a carpet oval, I ground my off road tires down to slicks in an attempt to 1. free up the chassis and, 2. to make the tires round. It worked out really well too. It made the tires round and I actually had to prep the tires to give it enough traction to not spin out or push really bad. This was right up my alley because I had just gotten out of racing go karts and that's a huge tire prep game. I had all kinds of tire prep and having to prep the tires actually gave me another adjustment to use in dialing in my Slash. I got it supper fast and they implemented a rule that the tires had to have at least .065" tread depth to be legal. New Slash tires are .100". I still ground my tires but it was to make them round so I still had an edge on everybody with their out of round tires.
Proffitt's Drone Service I just started racing slash bomber and just change body to mudboss I’m running proline primes slicks and mud corner I’m getting my rear end sliding to right and by then I’m getting lapped I tried the stock slash tires and got better traction but like to run slicks with crime rims just look better. I’m needing a tire like slick but better traction any suggestions thanks
@@wildcardjoker, what surface are you running? Dirt, concrete, carpet? Have you tried moving your battery back? You're most likely going to have to use some sort of tire prep and learn tire maintenance like cleaning, tire surface prep, and what tire prep product works best for you. As long as your chassis is set pretty close, tires are going to be your biggest asset to handling. Next biggest factor...like pretty much as important is going to be your driving. You can have everything perfect but if you're not driving the corner correctly, it's not going to work. Dive bombing the corner isn't going to transfer weight properly. Roll out of the throttle, get the weight to transfer to set the car and then power out from there. Same with setup; you can be doing everything right driving but if your setup isn't there, it's not going to work.
Running on carpet I think my chassis was sitting to low to much limiters in shock and not right camber. Readjusted it see next time on track. I put sauce on tires but didn’t let soak in enought. Thanks for your input I give it a try thanks for quick response
@@wildcardjoker, I always had alot of success messing with the right rear spring to help get the Slash to rotate in the corner. If it was pushing or too tight, I would add spring clips to the right rear. Adding RR spring rate seems to loosen it up or make it over steer wanting to spin out. It feels like it plants the left front tire harder making it help rotate the car more in the turn. Once you get it close on carpet ovals, the left rear camber will be your fine tuning adjustment. If you don't feel like you have enough drive out of the corner like it is spinning the LR, I many times had up to 4 degrees of POSITIVE camber in the left rear...usually 2 degrees of POSITIVE camber. And speaking of shock limiters; I always built the left rear shock a little longer than the rest of them. I want it to have the ability to drop a little bit lower to keep the tire in contact on corner exit. Not much though. I always had the most success when the car would push the front around when I was on the throttle. I would adjust the pitch of the car in the corners with the throttle. Off the throttle the car would turn/over rotate....on the throttle would push the front around. It's hard to get it like that but when you do, it'll be incredibly fast and easy to drive. It's also hard on the right front tire.
The guy I was talking to has been racing 30 years and sets up cars for people he gave me some of that info. Sounds like u also been there before too. I have limiters on left where my tires sets higher then right side as u said and running 2 1/2 camber on front left and 3 1/2 on left rear and right side close to nuteral. I’ll experiment next Sunday on track I thank you so much for your experience and input
I couldn't agree more. I love high traction clay tracks. But I grew up racing on looser dirt tracks and that's what I prefer now days to run on
I was with a lot of the other races and agreed that the word "Slicks" and "Offroad" don't belong in the same sentence. After racing with both pin and slick, I prefer slick. What I enjoy about slick is that regardless of what tire you are starting out with(manufactured slick or a buzzed down pin tire), you can achieve a really good grippy tire with much less break in period. All previous pin tires I had, all required multiple packs or lots of track time to get them into their prime. That prime was then very short. Slicks kind of level things out and allow you to keep things great for longer periods of time. Like you addressed, its often the foams that give out before the rubber does. The only part I don't agree with you on is the part on slicks won't teach you to counter steer/slide/etc. Different compound slicks can still provide that. For example, on my home track. Super soft slicks hook like no tomorrow, do amazing but have so much grip, it can sometimes cause slower lap times. Go with a Clay, you can manage that traction limit, get it to slide around when you want it but ultimately, allow you to actually run faster because its not just all about point and shoot. Anyway, Great videos. Keep them coming!
I FULLY agree…dusty dry track makes for better racing imo also, because of the setup issues you mentioned..
you are right, i myself switch between slicks n pins, each has their benefits and cons, i couldnt determine which is better but learning to control the car between grip and sliding/drifting/counter steering is part of the fun. it replicate the real car and you should learn to drive in any condition of surface or tire profiles
5:28 Thankyou Thankyou. I feel the same way. An offroad track should not be hard packed to the point it is just wavy asphalt. I think an offroad track should be fairly loose for the majority of it because lets face it, that is what offroad racing is. Just my opinion. I get annoyed when things become so min maxed to the point of racing offroad on slicks. They should put overly aggressive restrictions on tires. All it would take is an approved tire list and it would be end of story.
Slicks are good for people learning to set up a car. Consistent traction enables a rookie to feel exactly what his/her incremental change did rather than having to make large changes to notice results. My preference is a car that slides. I run MM but only because it yields faster lap times at my local track, but I prefer the feel and fun of a RM slide and stab.
Again commenting as somebody who observes and isn't in the fray: this was bound to happen given the smoothness and high traction available on clay surfaces. Slicks don't like loose dirt and don't like water. When none of those are present they are the best traction available.
Why do you think drivers are looking for more front grip in the cars and the motor is being moved to the center? Because the track conditions are becoming more of a TC on dirt than a Buggy on dirt. The buggies still have ground clearance because of the Super Cross style jumps at most tracks.
Driving a loose car on a loose surface is what made TC drivers struggle when they went off road. That said most TC drivers can now drive at big events with high grip surfaces that allow them to run slicks. They already have the smooth driving style especially those who have done well at 1/12 pan.
Yet much like 1:1 racing we have specialization. The off-road guys run that and the on-road guys run on pavement/carpet.
This is why we'll never likely see a Joel Johnson again in R/C racing much as we don't see a Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti, Vic Elford, etc in 1:1 racing.
From a race car driver perspective slicks are faster when the track is rubber down or super slick tracks that are sealed over. The reason is you get more tire surface area to the ground. Now as a dirt track driver we don't run slicks but usually in the mains when the track is slick or rubber down we will run tires that are not grooved getting more tire area on the ground.
I love old fashion dirt racing.... making your car slide around the corners and spinning some dirt out the back..... but there's always some room for a little sugar ... shot out to CCR....😎
good topic Jason ! I agree and diss agree well I enjoy both in the winter for me its indoors with at times running slicks and sumer time its out doors and its like the old days out door tires .. seen some people talking about setup .. thinking its more harder to race on out door tracks .. its the same u need the right tires and the right setup to go fast .. same thing for indoors . the only difference is the dirt its hard packed or its loose dirt .. I was not a fan of the new style racing at first till I tryed it and was like wow ! u can really push these cars to the limits ! and that's pretty much the direction the Rc racing is going too . and now with the turf surface its a new ball game .. I'm just not a Fan of turf yet but who knows already have 2 rc tracks near by that switched over to turf . still I refuse to race that turf . I enjoy dirt still .
Well, I feel kinda guilty saying this Jason...we discovered this by accident at MnM Hobbies in 1997/1998 time frame. When I say we I mean Brian Kinwald and myself...just testing one day. We had square fuzzie M3's and they were burnning up on my car. I told Kinwald, "my car's getting more traction and doing wheelies". He said, "Show me".
I sauced them up and they were bald about 90%. I put my XX-CR car on the clay surface at MnM Hobbies punched it did a wheelie and flipped over backwards!
Kinwald's little wheel started turning and he left the stand, didn't marshal my car and headed to his pits. He pulled out his dremel and created the first off-road slick. He sauced it up, and did wheelies. Then he said, "Dude, we have to do this to the fronts too".
So he heads back over, cleans the fronts and dremel's the front to a slick. Again we used cut holshots back then in M3 and he sauces that up, goes out on the track and I have the stop watch. His lap times went DOWN by 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap. His car looked like crap..rear end dumping over etc. But the added traction and lack of slip in the turns = 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap!
By the end of the night, I had my first set, BK had his and Chad Phillips had his and we destroyed the AE drivers (Billy Easton, Mark Pavidis, Jason Corl) by multiple laps...they didn't see what hit them! Mark walks over and see's brians car after the main and says, "cool tires".
From then on, EVERYONE at MnM Used slicks...had too. The foams would wear out after about 2 weeks and you'd have to replace the tire's. But everyone agreed that using slicks was more fun and cheaper because you could get away with a set of tires for 1 to two months if you were in stock class etc.
Slicks were born, and we tried them EVERYWHERE but they sucked everywhere but MnM back then. Then BK Bars came later as MnM Decided that it was no longer going to water the track and let it dry out. We had to go to pins.
Now with clay tracks and track glue slicks are back. It's no different than carpet or astro turf in grip, just how it grips. I still like pins and nobbies on my tires though on a wet outdoor track where throttle control and steering control matter. Just me though.
Gabe Boudreau
I agree that slicks on off road is crazy but it also takes a lot more skill like you said the car becomes far less forgiving and for the people that are bad mouthing them but have never tried it have no idea the challenge that comes with slicks
At my home track and your old home LHR in Joilet, slicks were awsome. However you did need to change on to a pin tire as the night went on and the track dried out. I don't think it hurts you in this situation because you needed the ability too adapt and handle the car in any situation. Just my opinion though. Keep up the good work and keep posting these video's.
Keep the videos coming! Absolutely love your videos!
Thank you again! This channel is great!
I love my local track. Its loose loamy hard pack dirt with a dusty top layer its awesome seeing the 1/8 truggies spraying dirt everywhere
I have an 85' Grasshopper 2 and my tires have been used a lot... They're literally slicks now.
a really good track example would be ifmar 2014 off road track that would have taken slicks on because underneath the dirt it was glue and concrete
Ultimately its just another tuning tool for racers. Though not a fan of slicks, I'd rather buy a set from a manufacturer than make a set myself out of a good set or even used up set of tires. Chances are on the worn tires you'll need to replace the broke down foams.
I guess I'm old school. Off road should mean unexpected terrain where slicks wont work best. A track that favors a slick I think shouldn't be classified as "offroad",
its always good the setup a car which has 50/50 traction, so you can drive it accordingly when needed
Been out of the sport for about 15 years. Came back to find carpet,astero turf shame. Lucky for me i live in Florida and there are nice outdoor tracks in a good radius from where i live. Really would like to try carpet at least once though.
This may sound nuts, but i run Proline Electrons on the front and Primes on the rear. This works great on just about every clay track ive been on.
Fallout for Life Legendary same here lol
Old video but if the car oversteers a lot on slicks and seems to lock up but with tread tires can drive the car super agressive. Dont have transponder to time but would I just need change setup some to get slicks to work or prob not going to work? Loving the rawspeed ripetides and stage 2 on my sct410.3 and eb48sl.
Agree 100% Jason. 👍
I think it would be nice to see a semi loose topsoil surface race . Like a freash tilled garden. Also for short corse class have a full on land rush start like the real trucks to at places like Crandon .
I personally think offroad should use tyres with some form of pin or tread. I race on an outdoor track that has a top layer of dust that requires pins, however it is clay & will grip up immensely when at a race day when the track is clean & prepped to the point you could run slicks or pretty well anything that is round.
Good vid Jason. Hey when are you going to release the Cactus video ,I have been waiting on your thoughts regarding this cheap buggy?
I don;t see why people get angered over slicks... Some tracks are "BMX" styled and some aren't (mostly indoor)... You are going to get traction either way...
I drive scalers. Thanks for the vid it was very informational
Well said Hal Jordan!
...wait for it...
Lot's of great info Jason!
Make a rule if you qualify on slicks you have to run slicks all day.
Hey Jason thanks for the videos, I am a long time rc'er but have been out of racing for 10+ years just getting back in. Could you do a video about what all the # on a lipo mean
Lets see, we race scale offroad vehicles of full size buggys and trucks. I do not see Rick Johnson, Johhny/Casey Greaves, Walker Evans, Ivan Stewart, and etc running on slicks. So why we would we want to run our scaled version on slicks? To me offroad requires tread and some type of dirt service. Carpet/turf with wooden jumps is not offroad. Carpet and slicks are for onroad.
are swaybars good to use on indoor high bite tracks or no ?
I'm cool with slicks an some tracks that try to out law them i believe they will loss cause i run in open class but for a roar race i can see no slicks an handout tire for a stock class maybe
If you want low grip, go 1/8th scale. Nobody wants to drive a rear wheel drive buggy in loam, it's not as fun as being able to rip around corners and do wheelies on the straight
this guy doesn't interact with anyone in the comments
2015 cactus was nuts I had to work and couldn't watch very much of the races
Great video man 😎🔥
The problem isn't the slicks. It's the bitchy "pros" that complain that they can't get their cars to hook up or there isn't any grip to the track owners when there actually is a decent amount of grip, maybe not a high bite surface, but most definitely not a low bite surface. The majority of these "pros" are far from professional and couldn't drive a wet string out of a rat's ass on a real DIRT surface, none of these sugared dirt, clay, or watered and swept every heat tracks. I race 2wd SC, Stadium Trucks and Buggies on a huge, sometimes rutted, and only watered once a round unless it's a big race or really dry and windy day 8th scale track and there's this thing called a throttle finger. The trigger has more positions than on and off and it seems to me that many "pros" nowadays don't realize that.
If these guys are always in search of more grip and are continually looking for ways to make it easier to stay consistently fast lap after lap, install a damn carpet track. Way more grip than you'll ever need and absolutely no maintenance to keep the grip up which will result in much less time, effort, and money needed to keep it up to the standard that the "pros" expect it to be.
The tracks they race at are either watered or swept every round because the track needs to be consistent in order for qualifying to be fair for everyone. If the track was super fast and wet the first few heats and they just let the track dry out, the later rounds of heats would either be at a disadvantage or advantage.
I understand your frustration that you have towards pro drivers, but I definitely wouldn't doubt their talent or abilities. They can wheel their cars faster than anyone else on any surface.
Almost all paid (emphasis on "paid") pro drivers have been racing for more than 20 years and have seen it all. They know what works, and what doesn't.
N8whopper jrN8 almost ALL 8th scale pro tracks are hard packed dusty surfaces, loam and all. Proline dual, Silver state, southern nats. All loamy surfaces fit for hole shots and blockades. The pros no matter the surface, will be able to tune their car to have good grip- being a pro isn't only about driving.
Awesome channel bro!
On my track slicks are the only tires that work. Pins have no traction.
Tires with down like that because they balloon you need a belt to tire
Ok if we are talking off road to make a course to a spec like mixing of concrete seem to be what you all are seeking for which there's a recipe. SERIOUSly
we have a track here that demands you only run slicks as it is easier on the carpet
There is an indoor clay track in Ogden, UT that slicks are the only tires that hook up. The owner installed a drill press that has been modified to a tire lathe. Slicks are a tire tread option and if you don't like them, don't run them.
My personal opinion is that there should be no slicks in off road racing, it's OFF ROAD. If you want to run slicks get your touring car out. For me off road is about the ability and skill in sliding and controlling a car on a loose surface. That's what I enjoy about off road and teaches you car control. Why not just say a tire must have 1mm of tread or it's illegal, surely it's not that hard to monitor. Just saying ;)
soo like indore tracks?
what's the best tire to run on carpet
carpet tires
Slicks are awesome for wet clay
With screened clay cliche or other like material
You need to try an astro turf track Jason, super consistent surface, low maintenance and you won't be wanting to use slicks!
whatever the rc companies say and do. thats what goes on at the rc races the last 5 years. like shooting themselfs in the foot. nobody even knows who roar and ifmar are the last 10 years, yah there helping the rc industry. useless.
Slicks do not belong in off road.
Slicks are for drag cars not OFF-ROAD cars. Get wth the program already. If you wanna drive with slicks or on road rubber, drive an on road car and get off the damn dirt.
You lot should go on strike to get shot of this nonsense plan flat with lumps tracks used. Off road is off road. Not proten, 1/12 pan style on steroids. It's no fun and has spoilt the hobby of buggy racing. Never heard of oh what stick tyres to try and of I need thicker and stiffed springs. Bring back real buggy racing in a field on dirt n grass with added bits. I used to run the slogan "Eat my dust" on my rear wing. What would I put there now. Oh sorry I my foams falling apart!